S09.E01: A New Beginning.

OoohMaggie · October 9, 2018

2 minutes ago, queenanne said:

i figured out that Ken got killed by the kick because of the large hoof print on his chest plus the fact that he did not turn; because I thought ‘if he doesn’t turn and no one comments on it, I think the characters have got some vaccination-splaining to do here.’

I thought originally that the horse kick was going to save him because we didn’t see any blood when he was being bitten. He seemed to bleed out or die from shock. Maggie pushed her knife into his brain after he died.

marcee · October 9, 2018

Like many, I don't understand why 'the Saviors' remained at the Sanctuary. If they were unable to produce food (or anything of much value), move along. Spread out among the thriving communities or go your own way. Get absorbed into the other groups. Why make it obvious that you're still *separate* - still, technically, enemies to the communities you hurt? It just doesn't make any sense.

As a sidebar, any plot contrivance that causes Zach McGowan to take off his shirt is alright by me.

AngelaHunter · October 9, 2018

4 hours ago, queenanne said:

i figured out that Ken got killed by the kick because of the large hoof print on his chest plus the fact that he did not turn;

I had no idea the horse kicked him. I thought the large wound on his chest was a Carl-type perfect, red walker bite mark. Shows how much I pay attention. He didn't turn because Maggie put a knife in his brain.

ETA: Oops, just saw that OoohMaggie stated that Maggie stabbed the kid.

Edited October 9, 2018 by AngelaHunter

iMonrey · October 9, 2018

Quote

Wow animated opening credits, that's new.

I have mixed feelings about the new opening title sequence. It's visually interesting and a nice update, I'll give it that. But it sort of reinforces the fact that this show is based on a comic book - I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing. I miss some of the iconic visuals like the fingers creeping out through the opening doors and, most of all, the distant shot of the random walker in the field. The original title sequences gave the show a more realistic feel. I'm not sure the show is doing itself a solid by reminding the audience this is a cartoon come to life. Especially with as silly as its gotten over the past several seasons.

diebartdie · October 9, 2018

18 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

Ken immediately croaks in a very dumb way and we're supposed to be shocked and mourn him, I guess.

No, the audience wasn't supposed to be shocked about him dying, nor were we supposed to mourn him. What we were supposed to do is realize, by the characters' shock and grief, that dying via walker bite has now become a rare thing for them. Remember back in the prison when Beth had that sad "No accidents in ___ days" sign? Well essentially, the various groups have gone over a year, more like almost 2 years without any accidents. "No accidents in 400 days". They are getting soft, they are losing sight of walkers as predators and even beginning the think they are in a new age, one were the bad guys have all been vanquished. That is why Daryl and everyone was all broke up over the death of what to us in the audience is just a red shirt.

Speaking of red shirts or red anything.....freekin this many YEARS into the ZA and not only have the walkers' clothes not rotted off their bodies, they even retain bright colors. I am referring of course to the walker propped against the car, had a coat and tie on. I reckon 99.9% of men who turned into walkers that were wearing ties, died right at the beginning. I mean, Im not a man but it seems to me, if you were not required to wear something so useless as a tie, why would you? So, tie guy (most likely) died in the very early days, maybe even the first day of the ZA and yet his freekin tie is bright freekin red. I mean if the show refuses to accept that clothes exposed to the elements PLUS blood will in fact rot, they could at least fade, stain and rip up the clothes to a far, FAR greater extent. It really detracts from the otherwise outstanding walker make ups.

AngelaHunter · October 9, 2018

56 minutes ago, diebartdie said:

No, the audience wasn't supposed to be shocked about him dying, nor were we supposed to mourn him. What we were supposed to do is realize, by the characters' shock and grief, that dying via walker bite has now become a rare thing for them.

Kind of second-rate, ho-hum realization - for me anyway - after the uber-competent, main character Carl died from a walker bite (after we and the rest of the group watched him grow from a little boy into a man, and we never got to see much in the way of shock or grief there from anyone) just as Glenn's death was rendered kind of anti-climatic, "Oh, him too?" after Abe just died the same way. Ken's death was also hardly a rare thing, after last season when everyone left the doors open all night as though a hot night in the south was something rare, so they could catch a breeze, resulting in a walker massacre.

1 hour ago, diebartdie said:

. I mean if the show refuses to accept that clothes exposed to the elements PLUS blood will in fact rot, they could at least fade, stain and rip up the clothes to a far, FAR greater extent.

I remember the Naked Walker, who, in spite of all the freaky, horrific things we see here, caused a big stir even though he/she/it was devoid of privates. Yes, they should all be fully or nearly naked by now, but gotta keep them covered, lest someone find a non-existent, decayed creature somehow offensive or too erotic. Bizarre.

nodorothyparker · October 9, 2018

3 hours ago, diebartdie said:

No, the audience wasn't supposed to be shocked about him dying, nor were we supposed to mourn him. What we were supposed to do is realize, by the characters' shock and grief, that dying via walker bite has now become a rare thing for them.

I've seen a couple of reviewers say this too. Which seems as reasonable an explanation as anything else for as hard as our crew was taking it. All joking about how Ken is this season's Neil aside, I never thought we were supposed to be all broken up about him personally even though he did earn a couple of brownie points from me for at least grasping that they shouldn't all just scurry off to leave the horse to die horribly. (Ahem, Rick and everybody else apparently laboring under the idea that horses just grow on trees.) His death is a catalyst to set the attack on Maggie in motion that results in Maggie going all Hang 'Em High on Gregory and shocking just shocking Rick and Michonne into realizing that everything isn't all happy fun times in their new world order where they blithely give away the hard-earned products of other people's labor to former adversaries.

mxc90 · October 9, 2018

After all these seasons, the gas finally ran out.

Those horses look strong and fresh. They have better survival skills than the humans.

Poor kid got bit and took a hoof to the ribs.

Butless · October 10, 2018

On 10/8/2018 at 7:55 AM, CletusMusashi said:

This episode showed that there was a lot more to Coral's vision of how the new world should be than just not killing Negan. It also focused on the importance of cowboy-era props and as many people as possible wearing big stupid hats.

All in all, it wasn't as bad as I expected, but that extended runtime is just too much. If they would just lighten the hell up on the ten second pauses after each sentence, everything that happened this week could have fit into a much snappier normal length episode.

And even Coral's ex-gf (Edith? Edna? Ermine?) playing a damsel in distress:

"Omg. Maggie." Bonk.

Next seen attending the hanging in a wheelchair. Was she wrapped in a shawl, too; did I miss that?

Butless · October 10, 2018

On 10/8/2018 at 6:52 AM, SimoneS said:

Not only Negan's lieutenants, but all the people who participated in the attacks should be under lock and key or as I prefer in a grave. I do understand that Rick is trying to rebuild, but he seems to forget the glee that many of the Saviors took in brutally murdering, torturing and tormenting people. There are people who didn't participate in their crimes like the women that Negan sexually exploited, but it doesn't seem like there were any trials to determine who participated in which actions and how they should be punished. This is the problem with adapting a comic book story. The things that can be glossed over or rationalized in a comic simply doesn't work in a tv show.

It's like, let's have Rick Grimes be a career cop before the ZA...but have no mental concept of what justice actually is, and how it's based on the whole of society's welfare, not just what he or his kid thinks it should be.

Butless · October 10, 2018

25 minutes ago, Tasha Brand said:

Enid. And yes, that scene of her attempting to rescue Maggie was really oddly done. I don't blame Katelyn Nacon for it, though. Just whoever wrote that scene.

i dont blame her either. it just fit in very well with the Old West theme we were hit over the head with.

Not sure if they were going for an Old West theme when they shot up at the gallows, or trying to convince us that Maggie is just a homesy old timey sheriff, or just bloodthirsty, though.

I do find myself wondering why, like her lousy Georgia accent, this actress cannot, after 8 years, deliver a line for her life.

And I dont get where she has the balls to say to Rick, 'You said you were gonna follow me and you didnt." Im sorry? I thought he was complimenting her. Not handing over his queen's scepter. She didnt get her way. Which, coming from her and her tantrums, seems like revenge, and not justice. Just like Rick, she doesnt get the sole say over whether a person lives or dies. In fact, Rick being the defacto leader that all of them, even her, looked up to, at the point of conquest, it actually IS his decision to make, whether Negan lives or dies. So NOW, she's TELLING him that he HAS to follow her? I dont get that. It makes no sense, conversationally, when he was not even given a reply to her declaring herself Leader. You know how you get that role? By force. That is the only way. Grimes got Negans rule through force. If Maggie wants to get Ricks role she can try to bully him out of it, or she has to kill or banish him.

So is that where it's going? Because just kill her stupid ungrateful ass of a character now. Her character should have been dead the moment she threw the 'slut pill' at Rick's wife and basically called her, this woman she knew nothing about except that her SON ALMOST DIED just a few days before, a 'babykiller.' Maggie has been sold as a male nerds wetdream. A nubile sexpot who's got a steely reserve. Puh-lease. It's been a selfish character. She's been a selfish ass from beginning, but its always been overlooked because of , what exactly?. HER family. HER farm. HER Glenn...etc. How many times has she endangered people for her selfishness? More than Lori ever did, that is for sure. And she's still being selfish. It wasnt her choice to take a life. She made it her SOLE decision. She is alive because of Grimes leadership, too, and because of the bravery of other non-selfish characters, like Carol, etc.

When Glenn was killed and she was scraming that Rick needed to get the rest of the Alexandrians and move on the Saviors, which everyone could see would be a suicide mission, cooler heads prevailed. And somehow her ranting fit is supposed tobe seen as a virtue..?? So its been about 2 years past that, and all of her selfrighetous selfish bullshit hasnt even mellowed down to a dull shine, she just feels empowered to be an even bigger asshole. Great.

22 hours ago, ShellsandCheese said:

I've never seen people cross weakened, damaged, and cracked glass flooring so slowly. The whole time, I was like, "move"!! Also, Ezekiel really does need to pin his hair up on this missions.

That bun would be too high. Higher than a Conehead.

Ohwell · October 10, 2018

I loved that Maggie rant. Right on!

Butless · October 10, 2018

22 hours ago, Dobian said:

It was satisfying seeing Gregory strung up and flopping like a fish from the end of a rope, I couldn't take another season of that guy. I think the new show runner knew that most people couldn't take another season of that guy.

The thing is, he can still out act a lot of actors on the cast, and that's why he was so enjoyable. Youve got damned CORE characters like Lauren Cohan who are still dismal at acting, and then when they are up against someone who can, they look even worse. AND he could be funny. He could be funny, which is also something Cohan has never been able to do. What core character has been as dismally unfunny as Maggie? Everyone has had their moments, but not her.

Now the actor Xander , who plays Greg, actually does sound like a sleazeball, when you see how he was asking teenagers on Twitter for nudes, just disgusting and stupid as hell.

On 10/8/2018 at 9:57 PM, AngelaHunter said:

I feel the same way, but it seems we missed nothing. In the opening, when "Ken" was talking to his friends, whoever they are, about his dad, whoever he is, being grumpy or something, I was wondering, "Who are these kids? Who is his dad? Do I have amnesia?" Then Ken immediately croaks in a very dumb way and we're supposed to be shocked and mourn him, I guess.

I just wondered why the hell they couldn't go to Alexandria and do the same thing to Motor Mouth? Who's going to stop them? Ricky and his girlfriend? Would Rick pull a gun on them? Would Michonne, standin' by her man, threaten them - Maggie and Daryl - with her sword in order to protect the Fonz?

I thought that kid was that bland actor from the "13 Reasosns" show on Netflix. That kid is a complete throwback to the awful 80s teen actors. Just BLAND af, and unwatchable.

The fact that they are still writing these red shirts in and playing them up with (usually Maggies?) tears, still means this show is POORLY WRITTEN. Take a note, Kang.

Butless · October 10, 2018

33 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I loved that Maggie rant. Right on!

Its like shes the fucking Virgin Mary of this show, that no one can say anything critical about the character or the actress. Both have been a canker sore from the beginning. And Im not being singleminded here, I thought the same about Shane and the actor that played him. To a lesser degree, because a good actor could have played the Shane character, which was more compelling that Maggie has ever been, so much better.

Sometimes a good actor is in a bad role. We can see it throughout the flip flopping characterizations of Morgan and Carol. When they are given the work, they can shine. When they are constantly hit over th ehead with dumb shit, they are struggling through it like we are watching them. But when the actor is sucky, forget it. Youve ruined the character just by hiring them; they cannot rally, even with the juicy bits theyve been handed, here and there.

22 hours ago, peach said:

I so agree with you. It's really hard for me to watch current Rick. I like the Daryl-Maggie duo taking care of business. I feel like Angela Kang has definitely improved the overall interactions of the show, which they had all but killed off in the last couple years, but the fundamental plot issue with the Sanctuary and Negan remains.

Theyve even aged him with that awful brush cut and did the actor gain wright or is that padding? Its like , 'Lets reduce him down to a crappy version of himself ,so people arent too sad he's gone.'

Edited October 10, 2018 by Butless

Ohwell · October 10, 2018

I'm sure there's a dormant Maggie thread somewhere but I'm too lazy to look for it, so I don't want to get too off topic about her here. Let's just say she's one of my two least favorite characters. ; )

But yeah, this Queen Maggie shit is already getting tired. Gregory was a weasel, but an entertaining one, and while I can understand her wanting to hang him after what he did, it was the unilateral decision she made that wasn't right. I have to believe that some of the others watching had to be thinking "What happens to me if I piss The Queen off?"

Edited October 10, 2018 by Ohwell

Butless · October 10, 2018

21 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I'm sure there's a dormant Maggie thread somewhere but I'm too lazy to look for it, so I don't want to get too off topic about her here. Let's just say she's one of my two least favorite characters. ; )

But yeah, this Queen Maggie shit is already getting tired. Gregory was a weasel, but an entertaining one, and while I can understand her wanting to hang him after what he did, it was the unilateral decision she made that wasn't right. I have to believe that some of the others watching had to be thinking "What happens to me if I piss The Queen off?"

It is telling and shameful that Cohan was given a good line ('you cant even kill anyone right' ) and could not deliver it, but the actor playing Gregory brought the sauce to his lines. I did think she had a good demeanor going when she was talking to Rick, but she could not land her last lines to him. I will say though, its was vague and clunky writing. But a lot of writing on this show is, and better actors have pulled them off ("Look at the flowers, Lizzy" couldnt be more cheesey as written down, but McBride nailed it).

suomi · October 10, 2018

5 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

I remember the Naked Walker, who, in spite of all the freaky, horrific things we see here, caused a big stir even though he/she/it was devoid of privates. Yes, they should all be fully or nearly naked by now, but gotta keep them covered, lest someone find a non-existent, decayed creature somehow offensive or too erotic. Bizarre.

For me, the most freaky, horrific thing was the (long ago) female kidnapping/rape victim walker, bound and gagged in the trunk of a car. That brought me up short.

Edited October 10, 2018 by suomi
typo

Butless · October 10, 2018

14 hours ago, OoohMaggie said:

Glenn Hershel would be the choice for most I feel, I don’t know anything about Scott’s illness, but maybe it was known that he probably wouldn’t pull through and they named him as a tribute.

This might be giving too much to the writers' brainpower, but maybe they named him Hershel because didnt Hershel believe in not killing people, and Maggie seems to be ok with it? In fact she said she wasnt "ashamed." Not very Christian like , at all. Evidently, Maggie only thinks it's murder when a fetus is aborted. She cant die off too too soon, for me.

17 minutes ago, suomi said:

For me, the most freaky, horrific thing was the (long ago) female kidnapping/rape victim, bound and gagged in the trunk of a car. That brought me up short.

When was that?!

There was that woman tied to the tree and supposedly had been tortured a couple seasons ago. That went nowhere. That was the unsettling part, because from the corpse it didnt look like it had happened all that long ago. But they just ...didnt bother to resolve it, which was gross of them . Dead horse? Oh well. Dead tortured woman tied to a tree? Oh well, that sells.

Butless · October 10, 2018

14 hours ago, OoohMaggie said:

Laura is the cute blonde one with the barcode tattoo, Regina is the one with the limp shooing away the crows, Arat was the one hoisting the Walker up to use as a scarecrow.

Why wasnt Arat imprisoned, like Negan? She chose to kill Olivia. And it was out of malice. As someone else has said previously, NONE of Negans arm should be free. THAT is what a scaffold is for: conquering sadistic murderers and then meting out justice. Or were the Allied forces wrong to do so after WW2? The extenuating circumstances here are that these murders were far more personal and intimate that in a broad war. Nothing pushed these underlings of Negan to be as sadistic and brutal as they were. Thats them; not a role they play, and therefore they cannot be changed from immoral to all of a sudden having a conscience. That's pure fantasy.

As for Maggie saying about the hanging, "This is not the beginnig of something. I dont want to do it again," she is lying through her teeth. Putting aside that she wants Negan dead, she built a huge gallows complex.

Edited October 10, 2018 by Butless

Butless · October 10, 2018

On 10/8/2018 at 9:44 AM, Dakisela said:

I just really hope that they don't turn this into another in your face political commentary where it's the haves vs. the have nots, welfare state vs. provider mentality, democratic leaning vs. republican leaning, make the sanctuary great again type of thing. That would totally take me out. It's already in our faces enough ALL DAY LONG. I need my TV to escape, please. Show us something positive. If that is at all possible. Thank you!

They have done something positive, in that order: they took out career slimeball and politician, Gregory. Someone said that the character was unbelievable because he has no motive other than greed and corruption. And that is precisely what makes him all too real. The real deal US government is only as far as you have to look. Gregory looks like a shinier,more compassionate version of them. Good riddance!

suomi · October 10, 2018

4 hours ago, Butless said:

When was that?!

Season 5, episode 10. (A couple episodes after the Beth/hospital arc ended).

Anela · October 10, 2018

7 hours ago, Butless said:

And even Coral's ex-gf (Edith? Edna? Ermine?) playing a damsel in distress:

"Omg. Maggie." Bonk.

Next seen attending the hanging in a wheelchair. Was she wrapped in a shawl, too; did I miss that?

Enid. I'd forgotten her name, too, but I don't mind the actress. That whole thing was weird.

6 hours ago, Butless said:

So is that where it's going? Because just kill her stupid ungrateful ass of a character now. Her character should have been dead the moment she threw the 'slut pill' at Rick's wife and basically called her, this woman she knew nothing about except that her SON ALMOST DIED just a few days before, a 'babykiller.'

What's her name was telling the others what they should be doing, acting as though she was in charge. Even though her son had almost died, Maggie was right: she had her husband, and her son. Maggie had lost her mother, and almost lost her sister. I think this was right after her sister tried to commit suicide? That's where her anger came from.

Butless · October 10, 2018

2 hours ago, Anela said:

Enid. I'd forgotten her name, too, but I don't mind the actress. That whole thing was weird.

What's her name was telling the others what they should be doing, acting as though she was in charge. Even though her son had almost died, Maggie was right: she had her husband, and her son. Maggie had lost her mother, and almost lost her sister. I think this was right after her sister tried to commit suicide? That's where her anger came from.

No; this happened a ways before they found out that her and her family were keeping their walker family members in the barn. Eendangering everyone -including Lori's son who just escaped death. So this was before they opened the barn and before her sister BethAnne or whatever went on suicide watch, after being in shock.

At this point, Maggie was mad at Lori because, as a super-selfrighteous christian and hypocrite, she did not approve of the morning after pill and that Lori was thinking of aborting her fetus.l And so Maggie, being Maggie, felt entitled to pass her judgment on Lori and attack her, in the nasty way that she did. THAT was what was up her ass when she threw the pills and yelled at Lori. And that makes Maggie a Grade A asshole. It was none of her damned business.

She made a scene at the pharmacy when Glenn showed her that he was looking for morning after pills. She got mad and said, 'Youve got to be kidding me.' As if her screwing Glenn in the previous trip to the pharmacy was a no-brainer and had no potential for consequences, condom or not, and no potential scenario where hard decisions had to be made about carrying a baby in the ZA, were ever possible.

Why the Maggie character ever got a pass for that behavior is beyond all reason, and personally, I originally quit this series, then. Hate Lori all you want ( and I admit, I didnt like the character/actress) but that whole arc on her being pregnant (as well as her 'infidelity' to a dead husband /Kirkman can eat it) , was open season on her, and on all women in extension, with the way this was handled on this show. It was hands down the most vile this show has ever been to a character, while simultaneously allowing the worst behavior from Maggie to go without comment or apology to Lori , and all women by extension. As if it was simply OK to treat a woman in Lori's situation that way. Lori was the only one entitled to decide on whether to carry the fetus inside her, or not. And to decide to tell anyone, or not, including Rick. No one else gets to comment on it, shame her, try to guilt her, yell at her or judge her. And they should never dare to take a higher moral ground, after they do. Most characters on this show have been 'punished' for far worse attitudes and offenses than Maggie's, and it was a real slap in the face to any women viewers, in how egregious and offensive it was played out onscreen.

Lori didnt ask Maggie to do anything for her, or give her any orders. Lori was in a bad situation and asked her friend, Glenn, if he could help her out by picking up the pill at the pharmacy. She didnt "order" him to do it, and he already knew where the pharmacy was, he didnt need Maggie to go with him.

2 hours ago, suomi said:

Season 5, episode 10. (A couple episodes after the Beth/hospital arc ended).

Ive totally blanked on this, then. I cant even remember a scenario where they would find this, and if any comment was made on it, or why not?

Edited October 10, 2018 by Butless

Haleth · October 10, 2018

13 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Rick and everybody else apparently laboring under the idea that horses just grow on trees

Have you never heard of horsechestnut trees? :)

Ohwell · October 10, 2018

9 hours ago, Butless said:

Putting aside that she wants Negan dead, she built a huge gallows complex.

You would think that the other people would realize that if she was willing to build a fucking hanging complex that she is not the right person to be leading them. These people are stupid.

OoohMaggie · October 10, 2018

27 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

You would think that the other people would realize that if she was willing to build a fucking hanging complex that she is not the right person to be leading them. These people are stupid.

Hanging complex?

It’s the framework for a new building.

Ohwell · October 10, 2018

10 minutes ago, OoohMaggie said:

Hanging complex?

It’s the framework for a new building.

That, you know, just happens to include a hanging complex.

nodorothyparker · October 10, 2018

To hang someone you only need a beam or a tree limb or really anything you can throw a rope over or attach it to that will hold the weight of a human body.

They're building a building. They don't appear to have gotten any farther than the framework, which yes, does include exposed beams. Building a dedicated gallows if that's really what they had in mind would be far less complicated.

suomi · October 10, 2018

4 hours ago, Butless said:

I've totally blanked on this, then. I cant even remember a scenario where they would find this, and if any comment was made on it, or why not?

It was the second episode after Beth died, don't know how long afterward in real time, but it wasn't very long. Beth died, then Tyreese the next ep and then it was this ep. Everyone was afoot, making that tortuous walk to DC, going through random vehicles along the way. Maggie opened a car trunk because she heard something - and found a (young) woman with long blonde hair, bound and gagged, turned, and looking right at her/Maggie. The plague came upon people in all kinds of everyday situations, and for this poor soul that was her situation. Maggie was deeply grieving Beth and she lost it and slammed the trunk closed and then couldn't get it open again. Glenn worked at it and got it open and ended her earthly torment. They left her in the trunk but left the lid up. No comments from anyone, IIRC. Sometimes words are useless. (There's a sad/not grisly screen shot in the episode called Them recap at Nerdophiles.)

Ohwell · October 10, 2018

29 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

To hang someone you only need a beam or a tree limb or really anything you can throw a rope over or attach it to that will hold the weight of a human body.

They're building a building. They don't appear to have gotten any farther than the framework, which yes, does include exposed beams. Building a dedicated gallows if that's really what they had in mind would be far less complicated.

But my point is, that's what Maggie turned it into.

nodorothyparker · October 10, 2018

Well sure, most anything can be used for that. But that's not the same as "building a giant hanging complex."

Ohwell · October 10, 2018

Still not getting the point, but we can agree to disagree and move on...

AntiBeeSpray · October 10, 2018

Cannot stand Maggie. Both from last season and this. She gets on my nerves. Just like Negan. I can understand why she's doing what she's doing, but I still do not like her.

iMonrey · October 10, 2018

There was a weird dynamic between Maggie and Rick where he's basically going to her, hat in hand, asking her to be generous with her Hilltop resources. How exactly did Maggie become Top Dog anyway? It's like Rick is the ruler of some foreign kingdom and Maggie is the ruler of a superior one. They used to be in this thing together, I thought the idea was that Alexandria and the Hilltop would work together, so why now does Maggie have the ultimate say-so? At what point did she and Rick flip a coin or divvy up kingdoms?

I can understand that The Kingdom isn't under either's jurisdictions but I'd like to know at what point Maggie and Rick claimed sovereignty over their respective communities.

Edited October 10, 2018 by iMonrey

AngelaHunter · October 10, 2018

17 hours ago, Ohwell said:

But yeah, this Queen Maggie shit is already getting tired.

I still have no idea what she ever did to reach the position of leader? My memory sucks, but I can't think of one thing she's done to lead. All I've seen her do, up til this ep is waffle and stride around with her Grumpy Cat face on. What kind of leader would have stood there wringing her hands and allowed Jesus to bring a whole gang of Savior POWs into Hilltop, forcing the hapless residents there to guard them and give up their own food to their former tormentors? I still am puzzled and annoyed at her Elly Mae Clampett accent, an accent which makes no sense at all.

49 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Would Maggie have been so set on killing Gregory if he had attacked anyone else? I doubt it.

I doubt it as well. Maybe because she's in a snit over Rick forbidding her to kill Negan she took it out on Gregory? I cared not if his one-dimensional, hammy, B-comedy movie villain bit the dust. Even his death bored me. I started disliking Maggie when the world began to revolve around the Great Love Affair of the Century with Glenn, where no one else mattered and yet was so fake and lacking in chemistry it made me start hating Glenn too, even before he began giving long, inspirational, ernest pep talks at inopportune moments.

Edited October 10, 2018 by AngelaHunter

peach · October 10, 2018

So, my husband quit watching this show with me a long time ago, but I asked if he wanted to see this premiere, and he said, sure, why not? First off, he said a floor like that would never be made of glass, it would be made of Lexan which would never crack and break like that, and second, halfway through, he said this is the same boring shit, and went to bed. lol He told me he doesn't want this crap to ruin the good parts he remembers.

LydiaMoon1 · October 10, 2018

On 10/8/2018 at 11:30 PM, peach said:

I so agree with you. It's really hard for me to watch current Rick. I like the Daryl-Maggie duo taking care of business.

I don't like what they've done to Rick either. The show bastardized both Carl and Rick in order to save Negan. I find it insufferable. Daryl and Maggie taking care of business though? Eh. If they really wanted to take care of business, they'd march their petulant and passive-aggressive azzes right on over to that jail cell and take care of Negan once and for all. I'm already tired of seeing them pouting about him. Then again, I guess the show is bastardizing them on the alter of Negan as well. *sigh*

Anela · October 11, 2018

14 hours ago, Butless said:

No; this happened a ways before they found out that her and her family were keeping their walker family members in the barn. Eendangering everyone -including Lori's son who just escaped death. So this was before they opened the barn and before her sister BethAnne or whatever went on suicide watch, after being in shock.

Oh that was when she'd almost died, getting the pills for Lori. So, I still see why she was pissed.

I haven't always liked her, especially during the "Beth who?" episodes. But I understand her killing Gregory - her life was in danger, as long as he was alive, and he'd already screwed everyone else over, when he went to Negan.

Texasmom1970 · October 11, 2018

Might warm up to it but I am not feeling Carol and the King. Maybe as I see them interact more.

GreyBunny · October 11, 2018

On 10/9/2018 at 7:07 PM, Butless said:

Its like shes the fucking Virgin Mary of this show, that no one can say anything critical about the character or the actress. Both have been a canker sore from the beginning.

So agreed. I hate Maggie and I've hated her from day one. The way she treated Glenn in season 2 was horrible (he should have told her to go fuck herself, especially after she cracked that egg on his head) and, while I'm no fan of Lori's, I wouldn't have blamed her if she knocked Maggie on her self-righteous ass for trying to butt in where it was none of her damn business. She's such an asshole and it's made worse by her stupid, fake, gulping accent. Just toss her and Negan into a pit together with a hundred walkers and forget them both.

I was so happy when Ken's mother told her she wasn't welcome at the funeral and to go to hell, at least someone finally did. It's a bummer that Gregory didn't succeed in killing her.

Edited October 11, 2018 by GreyBunny

OoohMaggie · October 11, 2018

On 11/10/2018 at 12:53 PM, icemiser69 said:

Back to Maggie for a second. There had to be a reason why Maggie had Gregory killed in the town square. It was to send a message to the rest of the people at the Hilltop that Maggie runs the Hilltop and no one gets in her way. Even if Maggie didn't want to just banish Gregory from the Hilltop, even if she wanted Gregory dead, she could have had Daryl take Gregory off somewhere to kill him and bury him. No one would know what happened to Gregory other than Daryl and Maggie.

By having Gregory killed, Maggie has put the rest of Rick's group at risk as well as her child. There is no doubt that the rest of the communities are going to learn of Gregory's demise. It is very possible that some of the people might try and avenge Gregory's death by trying to kill other members of Rick's group and/or kidnapping Maggie's kid.

Gregory attempted to betray Maggie and Sasha to Simon, he tried to knife her to death in the room and then, shortly after contrived to have her murdered. Add those to his history of treachery and cowardly behaviour and what does he deserve, banishment?

What do the Hilltoppers owe him? They lived “safely” for a short period under the rule of Negan, a 16 year old boy was beaten to death because their tribute to the great man was short. I wonder how Ken’s parents would have felt if that boy was Ken. Gregory couldn’t wait for our group to kill the Saviours, he put Hilltop at great risk by siding with a bunch of people who were in way over their heads and whose actions could have got how many of his people killed?

Our group saved Gregory’s life when his own people were told to kill him, did that engender any gratitude or loyalty?

I think Maggies actions were entirely justified, now people know the score. He was an example that had to be made, we all agree it should have been Negan, but that’s never going to happen

As for the other groups being interested in Gregory, or taking revenge, The Saviours couldn’t stand him and The Kingdom couldn’t care less after their recent losses.

Gregory? Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Edited October 18, 2018 by OoohMaggie

Token · October 11, 2018

Okay, so I guess during the break, the leader of the Garbage Pail Kids found some hair dye and learned how to speak English?

And I see that nothing else has changed and these people are still as dumb as ever.

And if they can find hair dye, why the fuck can they not find a razor for Rick's nasty beard and a pair of scissors for Darryl's disgusting hair???

Edited October 11, 2018 by Token

WalkerTalker · October 11, 2018

8 hours ago, OoohMaggie said:

Gregory attempted to betray Maggie and Sasha to Simon, he tried to knife her to death in the room and then, shortly after attempted to have her murdered. Add those to his history of treachery and cowardly behaviour and what does he deserve, banishment?

What do the Hilltoppers owe him? They lived “safely” for a short period under the rule of Negan, a 16 year old boy was beaten to death because their tribute to the great man was short. I wonder how Ken’s parents would have felt if that boy was Ken. Gregory couldn’t wait for our group to kill the Saviours, he put Hilltop at great risk by siding with a bunch of people who were in way over their heads and whose actions could have got how many of his people killed?

Our group saved Gregory’s life when his own people were told to kill him, did that engender any gratitude or loyalty?

I think Maggies actions were entirely justified, now people know the score. He was an example that had to be made, we all agree it should have been Negan, but that’s never going to happen

As for the other groups being interested in Gregory, or taking revenge, The Saviours couldn’t stand him and The Kingdom couldn’t care less after their recent losses.

Gregory? Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Gregory tried to kill Maggie 3x before this episode, maybe more. Once in the field when she was checking soil, or veggies. He walked up behind her and pulled out that pocket knife. He only backed off when a walker came up and Maggie had to kill it. He opened the closet door for Simon to give up her hiding spot. But, Jesus hid her and put Gregory's booze in the closet. Finally, he just went to Negan and gave her and the others up. This last episode was low, even for him. He preyed upon a family in grief. He took advantage an alcoholic who had been on the wagon. Got him juiced up, and fired up. When that failed he tried to knife her again. While doing it he states I will say it was self defense. That would not have been the last time. I understand why she did what she did. It might have been a matter of time before he did something to the baby even. He had no qualms about attacking her with her child in tow. However, I do understand what you are saying just take him out somewhere and kill him. I think rumors would have spread, and it would have been even worse. A leader killing her rivals in secret, is worse than killing them in public. She did state that she didn't want to do this and hopes it will not happen again. I was surprised he lasted as long as he did the way he backstabbed his own group even. This event sets up the plot line for Michonne to introduce a return to lawfulness, courts, jury trials, etc..

AngelaHunter · October 12, 2018

4 hours ago, WalkerTalker said:

Gregory tried to kill Maggie 3x before this episode, maybe more. Once in the field when she was checking soil, or veggies.

Oh, yes: She was out in the field all day, digging up one blueberry bush with a teaspoon, to teach Hilltop about farming.

15 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

if she wanted Gregory dead, she could have had Daryl take Gregory off somewhere to kill him and bury him.

Can't see Daryl doing that. Dwight and Negan did horrible things to him - beat, tortured, humiliated and starved him (never mind that he watched the Fonz brutally murder Glenn and Abe)- yet not a hair on their heads did he harm when he had the chance. OTOH, Pervy ol' Greg didn't have impenetrable plot armor to protect him, so maybe it would have worked since Daryl is now Maggie's lapdog instead of Rick's.

22 hours ago, GreyBunny said:

(he should have told her to go fuck herself, especially after she cracked that egg on his head)

I don't remember that. Laughing here.

Shriekingeel · October 12, 2018

Regarding the contrived “the Sanctuary is dependent on the other communities because crops won’t grow there” plot point, I kept wanting to yell the (slightly paraphrased) Sam Kinison line at the Sanctuary people:

“HEY GUYS, WHY DON’T YOU MOVE TO WHERE THE FOOD GROWS?”

raven · October 12, 2018

8 hours ago, Shriekingeel said:

“HEY GUYS, WHY DON’T YOU MOVE TO WHERE THE FOOD GROWS?”

+1 Sam Kinison reference LOL

AngelaHunter · October 12, 2018

8 hours ago, Shriekingeel said:

“HEY GUYS, WHY DON’T YOU MOVE TO WHERE THE FOOD GROWS?”

I was curious when Negan first visited Alexandria (it seemed he didn't know it existed until then?) because you'd think he'd say, "Nice place. Everyone out! I'm moving in." But he returns to the nasty, dank factory where nothing grows and has so little interest in the comforts of Alexandria he burns the pricey mattresses.

So I'm thinking maybe he's like the "Squire of Gothos" on the old Star Trek. Maybe he can't leave the Sanctuary because that's where his power source is that allows him to brainwash, enslave, all but hypnotize his subjects and dominate them with a frickin' baseball bat.

I'm sorry. Didn't get much sleep last night. :(

Deadheads... · October 13, 2018

Why wouldn't Rick just shut down the sanctuary? Build a new place or integrate the people to the 4 towns that we know of..

Deadheads... · October 13, 2018

On 10/11/2018 at 12:37 AM, GreyBunny said:

So agreed. I hate Maggie and I've hated her from day one. The way she treated Glenn in season 2 was horrible (he should have told her to go fuck herself, especially after she cracked that egg on his head) and, while I'm no fan of Lori's, I wouldn't have blamed her if she knocked Maggie on her self-righteous ass for trying to butt in where it was none of her damn business. She's such an asshole and it's made worse by her stupid, fake, gulping accent. Just toss her and Negan into a pit together with a hundred walkers and forget them both.

I was so happy when Ken's mother told her she wasn't welcome at the funeral and to go to hell, at least someone finally did. It's a bummer that Gregory didn't succeed in killing her.

I liked Maggie when she got buck naked with Glenn in the store.. I've been a fan of her ever since.

OoohMaggie · October 13, 2018

5 hours ago, Deadheads... said:

I liked Maggie when she got buck naked with Glenn in the store.. I've been a fan of her ever since.

At last some ‘Maggie’ love, I was beginning to feel like a lone wagon being circled by the Sioux ?

Edited October 13, 2018 by OoohMaggie

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