S13 E10: The Next Level

[Pinknblue]

7 minutes ago, CaseyRe said:

I wouldn't say never, but I wouldnt be surprised if it, or cheerleaders in general get nixed sooner rather than later (though not for a while I suspect). tey're not there to entertain, not really.  they're there to titilate, let's be real. they're there predominantly for men, most of whom wouldn't know a well-executed dance routine if it bit them on the ass. if ti was about the dance, they wouldn't be so proud of uniforms that are less than a yard of fabric. girls wouldn't have to maintain stringent weight and appearance criteria.  its about sex. and in today's climate, increasingly, that's getting to be a harder sell with people, especially women, becoming increasingly uncomfortable with, and angered by, being viewed solely as a sex object.  now, of course thats not to say that there aren't still more than enoug women happy to stride out there for the 'legacy' and 'iconic' uniform, but for all the show keeps harping on about how many hundreds of girls turn up to audition, I'd swear the audition pool gets smaller and smaller every year, and the fact the bikini calendar is outsold by the sideline suggests to me its not as much of a revenue earner as theyd like to think it is. In the last two years alone, the amount of stories, in large newspapers not just blogs, about nfl cheerleaders being a misogynistic relic that has no place in today's society have become countless.

On top of that, the amount of really poor press from former nfl cheerleaders, across numerous teams, and increasing lawsuits against teams, sooner or later, they'll either have to clean up their act and pay more and stop encouraging things like EDs, OR they'll throw in the towel and end their cheerleading squads, like the Buffalo Jills after lawsuits

Yes. 

If they want to keep the DCC going - they should get real already and pay them a proper entertainment professional’s wage to legitimise the whole transaction.

I don’t care for the argument that they can only be paid for what they specifically “bring in” - they add something to the entire organisation as a whole (and don’t they harp on that side of things about how important the DCC is to the organisation?) and provide pageantry and all the rest. Just pay them properly and be done with it.

[gggg]

4 hours ago, tinabee1967 said:

I am having flashbacks of Savvy's blue and white semi swim suit she tried on that shocked Judy. There is a lot to be said for leaving something to the imagination. 

do you remember what episode that was?

[tinabee1967]

1 hour ago, gggg said:

do you remember what episode that was?

I think it was Episode #4, where the vets go to Bimini and everyone has their first meeting. Not 100% sure. They dragged prelims, semis and final auditions out this year.

1 hour ago, Pinknblue said:

Yes. 

If they want to keep the DCC going - they should get real already and pay them a proper entertainment professional’s wage to legitimise the whole transaction.

I don’t care for the argument that they can only be paid for what they specifically “bring in” - they add something to the entire organisation as a whole (and don’t they harp on that side of things about how important the DCC is to the organisation?) and provide pageantry and all the rest. Just pay them properly and be done with it.

For what these ladies get paid, their job is HIGH stress. You have to look, act, speak and behave like a perfect young lady 24/7/365. Heaven forbid you head down to Mexico on Spring Break and have some guy do body shots off of you.

[Tinydancerxo28]

On 10/6/2018 at 11:45 PM, Stee said:

1. Not knowing MeToo is about as dumb as not knowing what MAGA means or what a wall means, in that context. (?? Caila)

2. Not knowing MeToo is about as dumb as going out in blackface for Halloween. (?? Whitney I)

3. Victoria ignoring Jinelle is not just disrespectful to Jinelle but also disrespectful to Kelli. Kelli is the one who assigned Jinelle to help mentor Victoria. Regardless of whether Jinelle has had weight issues or not or how much knowledge she had to offer, it was Kelli’s idea. 

4. Kelli still never said the word “cut” to victoria. She said “you could go home” and danced around the idea but went out of her way to NOT use that word. 

I am still surprised that Whitney wasn’t cut after that. IMO, she was a huge ambassador risk. Does anyone know what consequences she faced for it? If I recall correctly, she was a 2 year veteran at the time and was a show group member and eventually point for 2 years.

 

Being knowledgeable about current events shouldn’t be a surprise to a TCC especially  if they’ve watched the show. Any topic is fair game. 

[HollyFried]

I can't believe VK is still flopping away at training camp. Also, I like Kristen more this episode!

[vivianspoetry]

4 hours ago, Jess14 said:

The sideline calendar seems like the more economical version of the calendars. They already have the uniforms, and there’s no travel or lodging costs. Furthermore, it’s just more natural for the girls (half of them look awkward in the swimsuit shoots), and more unique in the actual uniform. Swimsuit calendars are a dime a dozen, and I’m sure many have superior photography to what the DCCs are putting out. Of course, I fully admit that I’m not the target audience. Perhaps there are lots of men out there who really look forward to buying it each year. 

I am the target audience and I think a lot of the women look better in uniforms than bikinis. Maybe it’s the push-up bras. ? 

I’m sure I am in the minority though. I can’t imagine buying a swimsuit calendar of any kind. If anyone really wants to look at scantily clad women, the internet is full of them. What’s rarer is finding beautiful women who look sexy AND elegant. That’s what the DCC should be aiming for. 

[scorpio1031]

2 hours ago, Tinydancerxo28 said:

I am still surprised that Whitney wasn’t cut after that. IMO, she was a huge ambassador risk. Does anyone know what consequences she faced for it? If I recall correctly, she was a 2 year veteran at the time and was a show group member and eventually point for 2 years

Not saying I agree with what she did, but I think that at that time, no one working for the DC organization would have expected something like that to happen.  It was a wake up call about the power of social media and being a public figure, which she may not have realized she was.  And IIRC, she wasn't the only DCC to do that.  Now, if a DCC had done that afterwards, then I'm sure they would have been punished.

[PrincessLeia]

Whitney was a different era.... sounds crazy to say because it wasn’t that long ago. There were a lot of cheerleaders at that party, and in pics with Whitney. Totally agree with the above poster that it was a huge wake up call to the power of social media.... and definitely opened Whitney’s eyes about how completely inappropriate and wrong that was. If it happened today, or even a few years later, I think it would be an immediate dismissal from the squad. 

[Stee]

7 minutes ago, PrincessLeia said:

Whitney was a different era.... sounds crazy to say because it wasn’t that long ago. There were a lot of cheerleaders at that party, and in pics with Whitney. Totally agree with the above poster that it was a huge wake up call to the power of social media.... and definitely opened Whitney’s eyes about how completely inappropriate and wrong that was. If it happened today, or even a few years later, I think it would be an immediate dismissal from the squad. 

I cannot imagine what it would have been like for a black girl on the squad who was attending the same Halloween party. Social media brought this to a larger population, but my heart goes out to those girls who might have had to deal with it firsthand and not say anything, but felt so offended inside. 

[WinkyFace]

15 hours ago, evasworld123 said:

I was shocked this didn’t get more discussion when it happened. IMO if she cannot fulfill all the potential responsibilities of being a DCC (including the calendar), then she should not be one. People cannot pick and choose what aspects of a JOB to participate in based on personal preferences — regardless of how noble the rationale is.

This is hard for me to say because I have adored Lauren ever since her bread comment (still do), but this situation in particular seems wildly inconsistent and hypocritical.

I admire/respect her reasoning when it comes to maintaining a professional image in her nursing career, but then how do you support the project overall and all of your other best friends risking their professional image? 

Lauren and Lauren alone has a special enough job where she can request to skip the calendar?

 

The only thing I have ever seen confirmed is that it was for “personal reasons” only speculation here has indicated it was job related. It could just as easily be religious reasons. Either way, I think the powers that be are smarter than to insist and/or rease a woman for not being able/wanting to pose in a swimsuit. Not these days. 

 

On 10/5/2018 at 1:14 AM, Ema said:

Who’s faces are the ones blurred on the wall?? And why? 

Shallow depth of field to highlight one person. Many faces is distracting, but I personally think they went too far here, it’s weird. 

9 hours ago, Teriyaki Terror said:

It's most likely Erika Wilkins...the former DCC suing the organization. 

They need to market them to women. 

100% not the reason. They literally have one billion sideline photos of DCC from last year, and they couldn’t find one without a disgraced DCC? Highly unlikely.  They already swapped out the Erika picture. 

Edited October 9, 2018 by WinkyFace

[Hannahjulie]

Kelli exaggerates when she insists the DCC must be interview savvy on every current event. I have been to their personal appearances (my husbands company is a super bowl sponsor so the DCC come to work parties ) they take pictures with employees and are not interviewed. I can guarantee you no one expects them to a rocket scientist but I know several people comment on the uniform and how tiny it is. the pictures are available for purchase . I talked with Jessica and she was so sweet. Taylor t Dayton and Marlena would have done just fine

 

i still don’t get how Shelly b still works for DCC after how mean they treated Dayton 

[Tdoc72]

17 hours ago, evasworld123 said:

I was shocked this didn’t get more discussion when it happened. IMO if she cannot fulfill all the potential responsibilities of being a DCC (including the calendar), then she should not be one. People cannot pick and choose what aspects of a JOB to participate in based on personal preferences — regardless of how noble the rationale is.

This is hard for me to say because I have adored Lauren ever since her bread comment (still do), but this situation in particular seems wildly inconsistent and hypocritical.

I admire/respect her reasoning when it comes to maintaining a professional image in her nursing career, but then how do you support the project overall and all of your other best friends risking their professional image? 

Lauren and Lauren alone has a special enough job where she can request to skip the calendar? I’m surprised Kelli is okay with the idea that Lauren is ‘above’ anything DCC related. Lauren skipping it calls the tastefulness of the entire calendar into question. ie Kelli maybe we tone down the sexiness of the calendar so you aren’t asking your prized women to objectify themselves to the point of being afraid it will impact their professional image outside dcc? Or do we not care? ... except only care when it comes to Lauren?

Not to mention setting that precedent is a slippery slope. Posters here are already now asking why elementary school teachers would choose to participate. Lauren could have done a more ‘fun’ shoot versus a sexy one (as acknowledged seasons back by K&J for Mackenzie who smiled on a bicycle instead of ‘rolling around in the sand trying to be sexy’). Hell, put Lauren in a one piece even. We saw Rachel posing in them looking amazing. That’s more tasteful than the actual uniform itself.

I’m not sure why I care so much truth be told, but it just seems overall confusing/weird.

It’s not like Kelli didn’t have options. Tell Lauren not to come back for auditions if she didn’t fulfill the bikini shoot, tell Lauren fine but you can’t go on the trip or let her go like she ended up doing. Kelli decided to let her go. As director, she made a decision that she thought was best. I admire her for listening to Lauren’s reason (whatever it was) and letting her go anyway. 

[ByTor]

6 hours ago, Stee said:

I cannot imagine what it would have been like for a black girl on the squad who was attending the same Halloween party.

They posed for pictures with her.  Yikes, that sombrero one is also awful!

[nittanyvolleyball]

I'm surprised Jackie Bob didn't say anything to her...unless she did but then again she posed for a picture with her

[ElenaFR]

Ugh, extremely insensitive all around. I still shake my head when I look at those pics. We are harping on Taylor not knowing about Metoo, but how did these ladies think this was acceptable.

[PrincessLeia]

10 hours ago, Stee said:

I cannot imagine what it would have been like for a black girl on the squad who was attending the same Halloween party. Social media brought this to a larger population, but my heart goes out to those girls who might have had to deal with it firsthand and not say anything, but felt so offended inside. 

I could be mistaken.... but I’m pretty sure there was a photo floating around of Whitney with Jackie Bob at that party. I think it was Jackie Bob. Which I always found crazy.

 

ahhh someone posted them. Tia and Mia too. 

1 hour ago, nittanyvolleyball said:

I'm surprised Jackie Bob didn't say anything to her...unless she did but then again she posed for a picture with her

Maybe she wasn’t offended???? I have no idea.

Edited October 9, 2018 by PrincessLeia

[Christineelgene]

On 10/7/2018 at 9:12 PM, Stee said:

I am one who thinks it's amazing for a TCC to be up in the front.  If the team is truly a "World Class" dance organization, and each year the girls are auditioning to make the team, then every spot in the triangle should be up for grabs.  The best dancers to the front!  

Equally, there are TCC who make Showgroup in their rookie season when even group leaders or fifth year vets don't always make it (I think of Australian Angela as a prime example).  It's based on merit, not seniority.  

But answering your question, I don't think we've ever seen this make rookies so far forward.  I honestly think it's a combo of a really good rookie year, and a real lack of powerhouses in the remaining vets.  Even the Vets in showgroup are a bit... blah.

I think they place the SG ladies together, as much as possible, so when they perform as SG they don’t have to redo the triangle and other formations.  Assuming they all make the team.  (Someone on the spoiler forum made a chart, and all the SG ladies are grouped together in the triangle.)

[EvergreenLove]

Kelli made excuses for Whitney (and kept her on the squad) because she was one of her favorites.  She emphasized “a private Halloween party” in her explanation to the girls as well.

While I agree that it was a different time with social media, Kelli would have never cut Whitney. And while I loved Whitney, she should have been sent packing for that stunt. Period. I would be willing to bet that if any other girl on that squad did something similar at a party NOT attended by other squad members, she would’ve been let go immediately.

Edited October 9, 2018 by 123DCCWoooo

[UnicornKicks]

5 hours ago, ByTor said:

They posed for pictures with her.  Yikes, that sombrero one is also awful!

Why am I thinking that's Brooke Sorensen in the sombrero?

[Teriyaki Terror]

On 10/5/2018 at 1:35 PM, PBSLover said:

Season 1

The one I'm thinking of happened a couple of years ago.

[LadyMsJay]

2 hours ago, PrincessLeia said:

Maybe she wasn’t offended???? I have no idea.

That's what I'm assuming. I'm pretty sure no one there was offended like i'm sure they would presumably be today.

1 hour ago, 123DCCWoooo said:

Kelli made excuses for Whitney (and kept her on the squad) because she was one of her favorites.  She emphasized “a private Halloween party” in her explanation to the girls as well.

While I agree that it was a different time with social media, Kelli would have never cut Whitney. And while I loved Whitney, she should have been sent packing for that stunt. Period. I would be willing to bet that if any other girl on that squad did something similar at a party NOT attended by other squad members, she would’ve been let go immediately.

1. I think she emphasized "private" so that the girls would know that no matter how private they think they're keeping their posts, someone can and will still see it and it will be public.

2. I disagree. For the 100th time, I don't think she had any clue that people would interpret it as "black face." She knows now.

[tinabee1967]

Oh, WOW.....where do I even begin with that photo. ?

1 hour ago, UnicornKicks said:

Why am I thinking that's Brooke Sorensen in the sombrero?

[Jess14]

Is the argument regarding times being different now that social media has made it more likely that photos and videos will spread or that people didn’t know in 2009 that it might be controversial for a white girl to paint herself black and pretend to be a rapper? 

I tend to agree with the former suggestion. Facebook and MySpace were already big then, but twitter and IG weren’t around, and I think people believed that they had more privacy on those outlets than they do now.  I’m not so sure about the latter suggestion. Certainly, there’s more discussion around matters of race now, but I still find it hard to believe that no one thought, “uhh...maybe you should be Little Wayne without the black paint...” I mean, it made the news for a reason. 

I actually question if someone would definitely be cut nowadays for doing something similar. I can kinda see the Cowboys being into the “stop being so pc” argument. I think it would depend on the coverage, if any.

[tinabee1967]

The blackface and the sombreros are pretty blatant, though. Yikes!!!

[Grandma Moses]

On 10/5/2018 at 3:44 PM, PBSLover said:

The question was should it be incorporated into the DCC? How the hell would veteran or TCC answer? 

The answer to the question of whether a DCC should use her role as a platform for a political movement or social firestorm (kneeling during the anthem, #metoo, etc.) is NO. There can be a follow up statement like, "My job as a DCC is to cheer on the Cowboys, and it's a privilege for me to further the goals of the Cowboys organization." Or something to that effect. It's in that pivot statement that I'd be curious to know exactly how Kelli and Charlotte would want the TCCs or DCCs to respond.

[Grandma Moses]

On 10/7/2018 at 9:49 AM, dccfangirl said:

What I find weird about this season is that the over featured girl is usually someone you root for so that you're disappointed when they're cut or thrilled when they make it.

Other than annoying Taylor who hated her haircut I would say that has been the case. 

Oh, I was relieved to see that Taylor go. She was awful. Throwing the evil eye at Kelli during rehearsal? I was so glad that Cassie called her out on her attitude. She was totally protecting the DCC brand in that whole ordeal. 

[UnicornKicks]

37 minutes ago, LadyMsJay said:

That's what I'm assuming. I'm pretty sure no one there was offended like i'm sure they would presumably be today.

1. I think she emphasized "private" so that the girls would know that no matter how private they think they're keeping their posts, someone can and will still see it and it will be public.

2. I disagree. For the 100th time, I don't think she had any clue that people would interpret it as "black face." She knows now.

Yeah, sad, but true that Whitney did not go into this thinking BLACK FACE, LET'S BE RACIST. She's a sheltered white girl who is not the brightest, but I don't think she was intending to be offensive. 

She's never been known as a braniac. She definitely needed educated, but I don't think her intensions were bad, more like she thought she was being extra authentic. 

Last - this pic was ALMOST A DECADE AGO - so I can't drag Whitney through the mud for something she did without knowing the full repercussion and also for something she apologized for. However, I side eye the whole DCB org for showing once again they don't care what their employees do as long as they don't hurt the brand and make them lose $$$. Beat your wife, ok. Look racist, ok. Have nude pics all over the internet, ok. Party with underage girls, ok. Be an underage girl partying, ok. 

Whitney was exactly what they love, Barbie looks, perfect body, amazing dancer, easy to control. Send her on appearances in Texas and she's more likely to get sympathy for being falsely accused by liberal media than not being wanted for her ignorant costume choices. She wasn't going to lose point or go anywhere. 

[ByTor]

58 minutes ago, LadyMsJay said:

I don't think she had any clue that people would interpret it as "black face." She knows now.

I agree, I think in her mind she was trying to look more like whoever the rapper was that she dressed as.  She would have been better off going as Vanilla Ice :)

[CaseyRe]

12 minutes ago, UnicornKicks said:

Yeah, sad, but true that Whitney did not go into this thinking BLACK FACE, LET'S BE RACIST. She's a sheltered white girl who is not the brightest, but I don't think she was intending to be offensive. 

She's never been known as a braniac. She definitely needed educated, but I don't think her intensions were bad, more like she thought she was being extra authentic. 

Last - this pic was ALMOST A DECADE AGO - so I can't drag Whitney through the mud for something she did without knowing the full repercussion and also for something she apologized for. However, I side eye the whole DCB org for showing once again they don't care what their employees do as long as they don't hurt the brand and make them lose $$$. Beat your wife, ok. Look racist, ok. Have nude pics all over the internet, ok. Party with underage girls, ok. Be an underage girl partying, ok. 

Whitney was exactly what they love, Barbie looks, perfect body, amazing dancer, easy to control. Send her on appearances in Texas and she's more likely to get sympathy for being falsely accused by liberal media than not being wanted for her ignorant costume choices. She wasn't going to lose point or go anywhere. 

Debatable. Holly P and  Jenna faced far harsher punishment for that (with HP being the one underage) than any player that beat his spouse ever did.  if you're a guy then you'll get away wtih murder, potentially even literally, but the DCC do get punished, though to a far lesser degree if you're a favourite.

[rl27rl]

On 10/6/2018 at 9:21 PM, scorpio1031 said:

Have you seen the bonus clip on CMT.com where Taylor J uses the word "absolutely" three times and Kelli goes from Zero to Annoyed in under three seconds?  It's not everyone else's fault she isn't dealing with what she should be, but she sure is acting like it is.

It just appalls me . . . she was annoyed with "Absolutely" but wasn't annoyed with "There are no words" . . .

[Jess14]

5 minutes ago, CaseyRe said:

Debatable. Holly P and  Jenna faced far harsher punishment for that (with HP being the one underage) than any player that beat his spouse ever did.  if you're a guy then you'll get away wtih murder, potentially even literally, but the DCC do get punished, though to a far lesser degree if you're a favourite.

Well, I think a Dallas Cowboys football player would face big consequences from Jerry Jones if he kneeled during the anthem... That the kneeling would be looked at as a bigger deal to the team than behavior that’s actually illegal speaks volumes IMO. 

[jlc]

9 minutes ago, rl27rl said:

It just appalls me . . . she was annoyed with "Absolutely" but wasn't annoyed with "There are no words" . . .

It is things like this that make you not want to watch anymore because EVERYTHING you know about the DCC over the years of watching have been thrown out the door for VK!

Edited October 9, 2018 by jlc
clarification

[nittanyvolleyball]

18 minutes ago, rl27rl said:

It just appalls me . . . she was annoyed with "Absolutely" but wasn't annoyed with "There are no words" . . .

Idk I thought Kelli was annoyed with her response being "There are no words" but that's just me.

[Stee]

4 hours ago, UnicornKicks said:

She's a sheltered white girl who is not the brightest, but I don't think she was intending to be offensive. 

She's never been known as a braniac. She definitely needed educated, but I don't think her intensions were bad...

The same could be said of Taylor T this year. 

I don't think the intentions are ever bad, but I do think it is someone's responsibility to pay attention to what is happening in the world!  Maybe it's just because I'm a news-junkie, but some of this stuff just seems so common sense to me.  But also, I live in New York.  And I'm Canadian.  Never been to Texas and never knew about the DCC until I saw the show, but now I'm obsessed.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Stee

[rl27rl]

1 hour ago, jlc said:

It is things like this that make you not want to watch anymore because EVERYTHING you know about the DCC over the years of watching have been thrown out the door for VK!

Amen!

[PrincessLeia]

3 hours ago, UnicornKicks said:

Yeah, sad, but true that Whitney did not go into this thinking BLACK FACE, LET'S BE RACIST. She's a sheltered white girl who is not the brightest, but I don't think she was intending to be offensive. 

She's never been known as a braniac. She definitely needed educated, but I don't think her intensions were bad, more like she thought she was being extra authentic. 

Last - this pic was ALMOST A DECADE AGO - so I can't drag Whitney through the mud for something she did without knowing the full repercussion and also for something she apologized for. 

Whitney was exactly what they love, Barbie looks, perfect body, amazing dancer, easy to control. Send her on appearances in Texas and she's more likely to get sympathy for being falsely accused by liberal media than not being wanted for her ignorant costume choices. She wasn't going to lose point or go anywhere. 

I had a friend in college who is from Mexico.... his favorite football player was Ricky Williams, who is black. He did exactly what Whitney did, and wore dreadlocks. On 6th street that night everyone of all races loved his costume and wanted pics. This was waayyyy back pre 9/11, maybe 1999 or 2000. Today you’d never do that. 

[EvergreenLove]

2 hours ago, Stee said:

The same could be said of Taylor T this year. 

I don't think the intentions are ever bad, but I think sometimes it is someone's responsibility to pay attention to what is happening in the world!  Maybe it's just because I'm a news-junkie, but some of this stuff just seems so common sense to me.  But also, I live in New York.  And I'm Canadian.  Never been to Texas and never knew about the DCC until I saw the show, but now I'm obsessed.

THIS was the point of my previous post. Why did Whitney get a pass on something that’s considered common knowledge when others are mocked and tossed to the side when they can’t answer Kelli’s questions? I guess “ambassador risk” doesn’t mean much if you’re a favorite (or your name is Victoria).

3 hours ago, jlc said:

It is things like this that make you not want to watch anymore because EVERYTHING you know about the DCC over the years of watching have been thrown out the door for VK!

I’m finishing up this season (only because we’re keeping DirecTV through the end of the year), but for future seasons, I’m out. This show has become something I hate.

[PBSLover]

I always looked at what Whitney did as kind of great. Young people don’t see color the way our ancestors/elders do. She loved Lil Wayne and dressed as him for Halloween at a house party never thinking anything of it. Yes, it was surprising that Jackie Bob and Mia did not find it odd or were offended but again, they don’t see color, they see the person.

Just my thoughts.

[EvergreenLove]

17 minutes ago, PBSLover said:

I always looked at what Whitney did as kind of great. Young people don’t see color the way our ancestors/elders do. She loved Lil Wayne and dressed as him for Halloween at a house party never thinking anything of it. Yes, it was surprising that Jackie Bob and Mia did not find it odd or were offended but again, they don’t see color, they see the person.

Just my thoughts.

“There are no words.”

[Monique]

If Whitney wanted to dress like a certain rapper that’s fine but the minute you change your skin tone you have crossed the line. Point, blank, period. Just because Mia, Jackie, etc. posed for pictures or were not bothered doesn't discredit that what she did was wrong. Whitney could/ should have just dressed up or if skin tone was that important, then she should have gone as somebody else. 

[PBSLover]

3 minutes ago, Monique said:

If Whitney wanted to dress like a certain rapper that’s fine but the minute you change your skin tone you have crossed the line. Point, blank, period. Just because Mia, Jackie, etc. posed for pictures or were not bothered doesn't discredit that what she did was wrong. Whitney could/ should have just dressed up or if skin tone was that important, then she should have gone as somebody else. 

But that’s my point. She didn’t know it was wrong and I think it’s rather wonderful she didn’t.

[EvergreenLove]

3 hours ago, UnicornKicks said:

Whitney was exactly what they love, Barbie looks, perfect body, amazing dancer, easy to control. Send her on appearances in Texas and she's more likely to get sympathy for being falsely accused by liberal media than not being wanted for her ignorant costume choices. She wasn't going to lose point or go anywhere. 

While I agree with this point today, this happened years before our current political climate (the “fake news” era) and Kelli mentioned being questioned about DCC being a racist organization on Bill O’Reilly’s show.

3 minutes ago, PBSLover said:

But that’s my point. She didn’t know it was wrong and I think it’s rather wonderful she didn’t.

It’s not endearing or wonderful to be ignorant regarding history. Kelli preaches this point ad nauseam to the cheerleaders.

[PBSLover]

4 minutes ago, 123DCCWoooo said:

It’s not endearing or wonderful to be ignorant regarding history. Kelli preaches this point ad nauseam to the cheerleaders.

Well, we’ll part ways on this one.

[Pinknblue]

42 minutes ago, 123DCCWoooo said:

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by Pinknblue
Nevermind

[EvergreenLove]

5 minutes ago, Pinknblue said:

I’m not sure that I can put this in a way that isn’t going to be taken out of context, but I’m going to try: Ignorance regarding history is a very different thing to being insensitive to others interpretations of history.

Blackface is much more offensive in American culture than it seems to be anywhere else, and things have changed a lot just in the last decade. Whitney’s dress up was innocent and not intended to denigrate anyone in any way - it only became a problem when it became public and people ascribed further meaning to those actions. So it becomes extremely insensitive, but not necessarily ignorant.

Interpretation should never be confused with fact, and current identity politics is invested in conflating the two. 

While I see your points, it doesn’t take away from the fact that Whitney’s actions risked alienating a good portion of their fan base, much like Taylor’s ignorance of the #metoo movement risked alienating women. If these women are to be held to a higher standard as Kelli insists, I would love to see consistency across the board.

[Monique]

49 minutes ago, PBSLover said:

But that’s my point. She didn’t know it was wrong and I think it’s rather wonderful she didn’t.

If she, a grown adult, didn't know it was wrong then shame on her for being ignorant and insensitive. 

[Pinknblue]

20 minutes ago, 123DCCWoooo said:

While I see your points, it doesn’t take away from the fact that Whitney’s actions risked alienating a good portion of their fan base, much like Taylor’s ignorance of the #metoo movement risked alienating women. If these women are to be held to a higher standard as Kelli insists, I would love to see consistency across the board.

Thanks for seeing the spirit in my post... I went to delete it thinking that it was just not going to be helpful lol!

You’re totally correct about the alienation of fans issue. It really became a problem when the pics went public; it was a private party, and people didn’t have as much awareness back then that what happens in private doesn’t always stay that way - things that touch on a hot button issue will totally go viral and the meaning can change completely.

Nowadays people are so much more aware on several fronts - but I believe that’s why Kelli focussed on the ‘social media/things go viral’ part of the issue rather than touching on why blackface is not ok in current society.

I don’t live in the USA so these conversations are such a curiosity to me. It isn’t seen quite the same way globally - but of course, in the American market in which DCC are situated, more sensitivity was most definitely required.

Edited October 9, 2018 by Pinknblue

[EvergreenLove]

6 minutes ago, Pinknblue said:

Thanks. I went to delete my post thinking that it was just not going to be helpful lol.

You’re 100% correct about the alienation of fans issue. It really became a problem when the pics went public; it was a private party, and people didn’t have as much awareness back then that what happens in private doesn’t always stay that way - things that touch on a hot button issue will totally go viral and the meaning can change.

Nowadays people are so much more aware on several fronts - but I believe that’s why Kelli focussed on the ‘social media/things go viral’ part of the issue rather than touching on why blackface is not ok in current society.

No worries! I think it’s smart business practice to focus on potential outcomes rather than “right or wrong.” Imagine the potential fallout from Taylor, as a DCC, not knowing about #metoo. Kelli was smart to avoid that.

[Opine]

2 hours ago, PBSLover said:

But that’s my point. She didn’t know it was wrong and I think it’s rather wonderful she didn’t.

When my son was in the second grade, he said he wanted to have a friend over.  When I asked him which one - he said the black one.  I said, okay, give his name and I will call his mom.  His name was Yoshiki.  I know some people will read this wrong.  But I am like you @PBSLOVER - I thought it was wonderful that my second grade kid didn't even really know what a black person was because we had never made the distinctions.  (BTW, I asked him why Yoshiki was black and he said because he had black hair :)).

[scorpio1031]

11 minutes ago, Opine said:

When my son was in the second grade, he said he wanted to have a friend over.  When I asked him which one - he said the black one.  I said, okay, give his name and I will call his mom.  His name was Yoshiki.  I know some people will read this wrong.  But I am like you @PBSLOVER - I thought it was wonderful that my second grade kid didn't even really know what a black person was because we had never made the distinctions.  (BTW, I asked him why Yoshiki was black and he said because he had black hair :)).

Awwww....that's sweet:)