A Discovery Of Witches - General Discussion

[buttersister]

Oxford and Goode. We’ll see how long they sustain interest. Diana? Zzzzzzzzzzz.

[ribboninthesky1]

I watched the rest of this series on SundanceNow awhile back.  The writing was still lacking...a lot.  It's too bad, there was potential for intrigue within world-building.  The production values are fantastic.  If I was interested enough, I'd watch (presumably) S2 just for the scenery. 

In an unexpected twist, towards the end I found myself tolerating Diana more than Matthew.     I found Goode's performance kind of weak and unintentionally funny through the entire series.  I didn't find him charismatic, but perhaps he wasn't meant to be.  Mostly, Goode didn't have much to do beyond intense staring and a clenched jaw. Maybe the book Matthew has more depth that doesn't translate well to a TV adaptation. As it was, the character fell flat to me. 

And that was largely the case for me with Diana as well.  Maybe book Diana doesn't translate well to TV, either.  Teresa didn't bring much to the character, but as written, maybe there was only so much she could do.  I'm not as familiar with her work as Goode's, so maybe she's been great in other projects.   

Palmer and Goode didn't have much romantic chemistry with each other, so I didn't care about the Diana/Matthew relationship.  

The most interesting characters to me were the aunt and her spouse.  

[tennisgurl]

I liked Diana a bit more this week, or maybe the actress just got more interesting materiel to work with, but she seemed more engaging. Maybe she does better with riotous indignation than with being bookish and wanting to avoid the plot? 

So what are demons in this universe? They seem to be another type of supernatural person, not connected with biblical stuff that demons are often associated with, but what are they? What are their powers? Apparently they're low on the supernatural totem pole though, whatever it is that they are.

Yeah old guy, selling this seemingly nice normal academic on genocide on the word of this random person might not have been the best path to take. I also kind of like the combining of science and magic, its an interesting way to set up this universe.

[slf]

Matthew Goode isn't working for me. The actress playing Diana is underwhelming but half of that is the writing. There's nothing particulalry interesting about her as a character. But Goode is charisma free and his acting is hokey in some spots.

This really is Twilight for adults. Beautifully filmed, tho.

Edited April 18, 2019 by slf

[MissL]

I watched episode 2 on Sunday. The writing is comically bad. At one point while Matthew was sniffing her and describing her  smell I had to mute it it was just so cringe worthy.  It really is a bunch of overwrought vampire/witch lore and everyone is just taking themselves so damn seriously.  I "crave her".  Witch wind. Seriously?

At this point I'm watching for beautiful scenery, and I include Matthew Goode in that, and spotting actors from other shows I love like "Molly" from Sherlock and "evil boyfriend whose name I can't remember" from British version of Being Human.

so bad. 

[dubbel zout]

10 hours ago, MissL said:

At this point I'm watching for beautiful scenery, and I include Matthew Goode in that

Same here. The location porn is amazing. As is Matthew Goode. Also, Teresa Palmer's wardrobe is pretty great—I covet a lot of her sweaters and coats.

The story, though, is boring. I was underwhelmed by the books, but the writing kept me going. The narrative drive in the show needs to be a lot stronger, IMO.

[poeticlicensed]

On 4/22/2019 at 11:21 PM, MissL said:

I watched episode 2 on Sunday. The writing is comically bad. At one point while Matthew was sniffing her and describing her  smell I had to mute it it was just so cringe worthy.  It really is a bunch of overwrought vampire/witch lore and everyone is just taking themselves so damn seriously.  I "crave her".  Witch wind. Seriously?

At this point I'm watching for beautiful scenery, and I include Matthew Goode in that, and spotting actors from other shows I love like "Molly" from Sherlock and "evil boyfriend whose name I can't remember" from British version of Being Human.

so bad. 

I'm trying really hard with this show and the first episode seemed promising, but it is quickly devolving into Twilight 2.0. I love the scenery so I will probably continue to watch it until it gets so ridiculous I have to stop.  

[Happywatcher]

On Episode 3. Twilight 2.0, only the lead girl is dumber and weaker.

[Moxie Cat]

Maybe a contrary opinion, but Episode 3 is where they hooked me. 

I have had the first book for ages, but never really read it. I think this series suffers from its episode count. The books (from what I have flipped through) are very dense with detail. Very different from Twilight, although I agree, the basic story beats are scary similar (I hope we don't get a werewolf love triangle though!) The books are largely told from Diana's POV, and I think that really helps the character. Here, we just know what we observe, and we are tainted by the actress's performance.

I LOVE Matthew Goode. I may or may not have rewatched Chasing Liberty a number of times, years ago. 🙂 So I was all in on this, even though I agree, he doesn't exactly resemble the description of Matthew in the book. (I am picturing someone taller and broader, more like Christopher Reeve.)

Teresa Palmer's line delivery, however, reminds me (unfavorably) of Sophie Skelton (Bree) on Outlander. So I think that maybe, for some actors, the need to focus on the accent gets the better of their acting. Palmer's nonverbal moments, as mentioned above, are pretty good. But that Episode 1 scene where she gave a lecture? OMG. No gravitas whatsoever. This is a top-notch professor? I just don't buy it - and unfortunately, I think it's the line delivery. 

I know a little more about Outlander, so I know that they had a hard time finding a) an actress who resembled the leads, and b) a UK actress because of their budget. What was the constraint here? Why couldn't they hire an American to play Diana? I mean, heck, they didn't even hire a Brit! 

But just like I was initially in on Twilight many years ago (don't judge - it was before the Eclipse book even came out!), I'm sold on this now. Can't explain it. Definitely reading the books though. I have too many questions - like what is the deal with the young couple and his mom? (Again, longer episodes would help.)

[tennisgurl]

Yeah, they are going full on Twilight for grown ups here. Its not a bad thing, and I think that the actress playing Diana is getting a bit more to do, but I do hope they focus more on stuff beyond the romance. While its clearly the biggest part of the show, its probably the least interesting thing going on. 

I really want to know what is going on with the demons on this world. What exactly is their deal? Where do they come from? What are their powers? Why do the other factions treat them like crap? 

I can deal with a LOT of supernatural cheese, but actually smelling a girl to tell her what her sent is? Like, weird flex, but ok. 

[dubbel zout]

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Where do they come from? 

That's what the book is supposed to explain, and it's why everyone wants it. The book is sort of a genealogy of that world.

[walnutqueen]

On 4/24/2019 at 12:15 PM, poeticlicensed said:

I'm trying really hard with this show and the first episode seemed promising, but it is quickly devolving into Twilight 2.0. I love the scenery so I will probably continue to watch it until it gets so ridiculous I have to stop.  

It has already reached the point of no return for me.  Neither the scenery nor the Killing Eve lead-in can save this turkey - I am OUT.

[dubbel zout]

Another very boring episode with great production values.

[Happywatcher]

Diana just keeps getting dumberer, and the complex political plots are more basic that West Side Story

[dubbel zout]

There's a lot of discussion in the book about alchemy symbols and meanings that I know don't translate well to film, but Diana's work is an important part of her. That has been severely de-emphasized, to her detriment. She's way too passive. And Alex Kingston is grievously underused. All she's done is urge Diana to get away from Matthew and come home. Zzzzz.

Edited April 29, 2019 by dubbel zout
spelling a name properly is nice

[HouseofBeck]

Well, I have to say: I dig Matthew. I feel he could do MORE, but his moments of repressed intensity do it for me. I love the actress playing his "mother" (sire?). I wish Alex Kingston's character wasn't always instantly agitated. I also want most of Diana's outfits in the varying shades of blue.

The romance and True Love seemed to sweep up super fast, but I'm enjoying the eye candy of it. I yelled at Matthew that if he's going to decide for Diana and himself that the Covenant must not be broken, then he doesn't also get to tell her where she should stay and what she should do.

And yet. I've never watched nor read Twilight, but if this is Twilight for adults, well, they've got me and Mr. HouseofBeck.  

I wish everyone would turn on Peter Knox sooner rather than later. Maybe the book will eat him. 

Speaking of books, I intend to read them soon, though I suspect I'll find gaping holes in the TV series if not made-up characters, so I'm waiting until this first season is over. 

[tennisgurl]

I can buy a lot of stuff, but I do not buy for a second that no one has done any...fraternization from outside of the creature camp in thousands of years! Yeah, totally no one has done any of that...and been caught more likely. 

The rain and the dancing was really pretty and well shot, and had a very mystical vibe to it. I do wish Diana had more agency in her story, she is just kind of getting pushed and pulled around by various factions.

[Zoe]

After the third episode I couldn't help myself anymore and steamrolled my way through all of the books.  There is so much being left out, but I don't think leaving it all in would have been the right answer either.  I wish we had gotten more time in Oxford though.

(Edit: is there still a book-readers thread somewhere, or did that get tossed out with the redesign?)

Alex Kingston's American accent freaks me out.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Zoe

[AAEBoiler]

I don't know what it is about this show but it's just not grabbing me and I have fallen asleep while watching each episode. I guess that's a sign?

[SimoneS]

I agree that this is totally Twight for adults, but I am enjoying it anyway. I don't think that either lead is particularly talented, but they have some chemistry. Diana just met Matthew a couple days ago and she is all, "I love you," "tell me how you feel," don't make decisions for me," while he is all "we can't be together." Hilarious. I am rolling my eyes and chuckling half the time. It is light fare entertainment which works for me.  

Edited May 2, 2019 by SimoneS

[Indigo Luna]

It always saddens me when I find a series that has a really interesting world/mythos, but its weighed down by a boring main couple that take themselves too seriously. Its like when someone stands in front of the TV and you can't see the show you're really trying to watch. I'm on episode six right now and honestly its interesting at some points but the rest is just BLAH. Its weird cause I've always like Theresa Palmer but here she's just Bella Swan-ing her heart out in cute sweaters. I was into the Diana/Matthew aspect in the first few episodes but they went from 0-100 so fast that it bored me. I know they had limited episodes I'm just meh about them at this point. But I love the inter-species politics. More of that please. 

[Quilt Fairy]

My PBS station has replayed the last few episodes of Downton Abbey in the weeks since Discovery of Witches has aired, so I've been able to compare DA's Matthew Goode with DW's Matthew Goode.  And even though I liked him in DA, in all honesty he's just a stick standing there, supposedly having all these emotions under the surface.  Just the same as here. 

He's a good looking man, but he's taking roles that don't give him much space to really act.

[pasdetrois]

I found this series so hammy yet boring that I removed it from my DVR. Pretty to look at, but that's about it.

[SimoneS]

I don't get the long shot of Matthew and Diana's first kiss. Are they horrible kissers? Or was that supposed to be artsy? Matthew smelling the strand of Diana's hair and Lindsay Duncan who is a talented actress chewing on fox guts made me feel a bit sorry for the actors, but hell they get a paid a lot of money. Ha. I hope that now Diana has been kidnapped that she starts harassing harnessing her power because her being afraid of it has gotten old real fast. The sex was uh? I couldn't figure out what they were supposed to be doing. Now that is sad.

Edited May 6, 2019 by SimoneS

[dubbel zout]

12 hours ago, SimoneS said:

The sex was uh? I couldn't figure out what they were supposed to be doing.

Diana had her pants on, so...

That was one unsexy sex scene. I don't think there's any chemistry between Goode and Palmer, and given that Matthew and Diana are supposed to be each other's lobster, that's a huge problem.

[Quilt Fairy]

16 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I hope that now Diana has been kidnapped that she starts harassing her power because her being afraid of it has gotten old real fast. (Bold mine.)

Did you mean "harassing" or "harnessing"?  Because at first I thought you made a (probably auto-correct) error, but the more I think about it, either word would work.

[SimoneS]

18 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Did you mean "harassing" or "harnessing"?  Because at first I thought you made a (probably auto-correct) error, but the more I think about it, either word would work.

I meant, "harnessing."

[Quilt Fairy]

On 5/6/2019 at 10:01 AM, dubbel zout said:

That was one unsexy sex scene.

The quietest orgasm I've ever seen.  

[HouseofBeck]

On 5/5/2019 at 9:07 PM, SimoneS said:

I don't get the long shot of Matthew and Diana's first kiss. Are they horrible kissers? Or was that supposed to be artsy? Matthew smelling the strand of Diana's hair and Lindsay Duncan who is a talented actress chewing on fox guts made me feel a bit sorry for the actors, but hell they get a paid a lot of money. Ha. I hope that now Diana has been kidnapped that she starts harassing harnessing her power because her being afraid of it has gotten old real fast. The sex was uh? I couldn't figure out what they were supposed to be doing. Now that is sad.

Yeah...I had been enjoying what there was of tension and build-up, but the actual "I love you" scene and the WTFery of a sex scene just felt meh. Darn it. 

But we now have the books, and already I'm liking the first few chapters (there's a bit of exposition, but even that seems to fit with the academic Diana).

[Quilt Fairy]

I just got "The World of All Souls" from the library this afternoon, and it conveniently has synopses of all 3 books.   It turns out that the sex scene feels incomplete because

Spoiler

at this point, the physical relationship is not consummated.  

Spoilered because, just in case. 

[dubbel zout]

I'd also add the sex scene felt incomplete because nobody was naked or even had their pants off.

[tennisgurl]

So did they just have sex with their clothes on? I mean, whatever floats your boat, but I have a few questions about the logistics of that.

I still want to know more about what is going on with the demons and the council and all of that. I can just go and learn about it from the books I guess, but it would be nice if the show explained what exactly all these people can do, and what their deal is. I like that part of the show is people trying to figure out what exactly everyone is and where they came from, but what actually makes a demon different than anyone else? Why do the other species dislike them? 

In true Twilight fashion, Diana gets kidnapped, so that her strapping vampire boyfriend can rescue her. Also, if your talking to a creepy head in a box and are feeding it blood, you might not be the good guy in this scenario...

[SimoneS]

Well, at least Diana was only captured for one episode and she helped save herself with her magic.

Satu seems unnecessarily evil, teaming up with Gerbert and torturing Diana. At least, she released the body-less witch from her torment. 

Now there is a secret order of knights that Matthew is in charge of. Okay, then.

I wish they would explain the different creatures, their powers, and their relationship to each other more clearly. I don't understand the demons, much less how a demon can come from witches and how a demon can give birth a witch. I shouldn't have to go to Wikia to understand this constructed world.

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

So did they just have sex with their clothes on? I mean, whatever floats your boat, but I have a few questions about the logistics of that.

Magic must allow them to have sex through their clothes. Ha. Or maybe they just engaged in frottage.

[Zoe]

The problem with demons is the story is 99% from Diana's perspective, and due to the species segregation, there's a lot that's misunderstood/unknown about the other creatures.

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So did they just have sex with their clothes on? I mean, whatever floats your boat, but I have a few questions about the logistics of that.

The book has the (relatively more) explicit details. Don't click if you really don't want to know.

Spoiler

They didn't have sex.

[tennisgurl]

Glad that Diana found her magic, and managed to help save herself, even if she did still need a rescue. Satu was so evil and unnecessarily twisted with Diana, but she also released that poor witch head, so maybe she isnt pure evil? Did her parents actually bind her powers for some reason? To do with the prophesy? 

All the talk about lions and wolves, plus this show airing on Sundays, just makes me feel like this is some bizarre Game of Thrones sequel and she is also the last surviving member of both the Starks and the Lannisters. 

This world really loves their secret societies and not telling each other stuff, huh? I am starting to suspect that the reason no one tells anyone what demons can do or how they come to be is that nobody in universe knows, because nobody talks to each other!

[dubbel zout]

The lion and wolves reminded me of Wolfram & Hart in Angel. Heh.

 I thought Teresa Palmer was kind of terrible in this ep, not that she’s been all that good anyway. And again, Alex Kingston is completely wasted. All she does is tell Diana to be careful and come home. Zzz. 

I’m still in this for Matthew Goode, the location porn, and the wardrobe. 

[Grammaeryn]

I got into this show because I was a Buffy fan, casual Charmed watcher, binged Witches of Eastwick, and watched True Blood. Oh yeah, add Being Human (US version). I wanted to see how this show’s world would be set up.

The combination of alchemy and genetics is fantastic. I like trying to figure out what mythos is being used where. The settings are amazing. The torture castle ruins? Can they please have an Airbnb? The dialogue can be hokey. The acting is uneven. The casting veers from hilarious levels of obvious “Oh this asshole again” or against type.

Diana in the latest episode, “What am I?” Me - “A bad actress.” The Satu actress would have made such a better Diana darn it! With all this said, I’m definitely going to read the books!

[Happywatcher]

Did they spend all their money on special effects and cinematography, and had to hire high school level scriptwriters and unit directors?

[SimoneS]

Just when I was about complain that nothing much happened in the episode, Juliette showed up.

Diana finding out that her parents spellbound her and her father was a time walker was interesting. It was good to see Diana putting in the work to learn how to use her magic properly.

I saw clothes actually come off so I am concluding that Matthew and Diana actually had sex this time. I have always liked the song, "I found" and the lyrics should fit Matthew and Diana, but they don't have the passion to make it work.

I like Diana's aunts. I am glad Alex Kingston and Valerie Pettiford are getting more to do. I remember Valerie Pettiford from her stint on the soaps. She looks so much older with that turban on her head.

[MaiaH]

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I saw clothes actually come off so I am concluding that Matthew and Diana actually had sex this time.

Spoiler

In the books, they don't actually have sex until the second book so maybe not.

I first watched the show and then read the books.  I enjoyed the show the first time I watched it.  After reading the books, I find that a lot of the motivation of the characters is missing when rewatching the show.  With that said, I am looking forward to the second and third seasons to see how they adapt the books.

[Zoe]

I can't tell what the writers are planning with the bed scenes. They've left out some pretty important conversations. Book spoilers: 

Spoiler

They're certainly directing the scenes in a way where, if you had read the books, you can see the signs that it's all foreplay. But at the same time, they've cut out all instances of Matthew telling her he wants to wait, and they've taken out all talk of the possibility of having children.

Of course at the end of the last episode where she's standing in front of the mirror holding her belly, hubby was like, "what, is she preggers now?"

[dubbel zout]

The series hits most of the major points in the books, but there's no lead-up or development. Had I not read the books, I think I'd have some problems figuring out what's going on. 

I had to laugh at the "strong sexual content" warning and all we get is Matthew going down on Diana. And he seems he did it through her underwear. Again. I suppose it's a step in the right direction that they appeared naked in bed afterward. I have no trouble with actors not wanting to be nude (their body, their choice), but don't tell me people are sexing when they're obviously wearing clothes.

[AnimeMania]

Hey! Did that cat talk!

The show is kind of boring considering it is about supernatural creatures. The most exciting thing that happened was somebody read a book in a library. I am still trying to figure out how somebody knows they are a demon.

[tennisgurl]

I like Diana's aunts, and their haunted house. Diana getting used to her powers and figuring out what the deal was with her parents has promise of some actual plot movement, which is very welcome. I am all for fall flavored scenery porn, but I am gonna need some momentum in this story ASAP. 

All the creatures are so dramatic about each other, when its honestly hard for me to tell the differences between them beyond what powers they have. Hell, I still have no clue what powers the demons have!

[SimoneS]

27 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

 Hell, I still have no clue what powers the demons have!

Same here. I keep asking the screen; what powers do the demons? It never responses. Why does the show refuse to share any important info with its audience?

[Zoe]

Daemons for the most part don't have "powers".  Some of them have sixth senses, but usually they're just prodigies.  Hamish is a mathematical genius, Agatha is a fashion designer, Nathaniel is a hacker, and Sophie is an artist.

I'm not sure if the show can portray the mental instability of them without ruffling feathers, so I'll just take a cue from BBT and call them "quirky".

[CAM]

My interpretation is that,  in this world, the Demons/Daemons are a level or so above from humans (due in part to their genius/prodigy level).  As a result I get the impression that the other Creatures look down on them since the Demons/Daemons don't have the "Powers" that the Witches and Vampires have.

Now about episode 7; I'm glad that they are showing the Congregation being an active force because 

Spoiler

in the books (which I just finished reading) it comes across as being this shadowy entity, that you don't really ever see do anything. Which as far as the books where concerned made fear/worry about the Congregation fall flat. Even though it is just 3 to 4 of the 9 members that are the bad guys.

I was surprised that the missing page from A782 didn't get more play...it was there and then it wasn't, complete with a throw away comment Miriam about it bearing Mathews insignia. Which should have opened up a whole conversation about the symbolism and how it relates to Matthew and Diana.  Which would have also been a perfect opportunity for, us the viewer, to see Diana use her background in Alchemy (which has been completely minimized in the show). 

Ultimately, I think that if this Season had been 10 episodes vs. 8 they could have taken a bit more time to build this world and explain/explore the nuances of why certain things are important.

[HouseofBeck]

Yeah, I really would like to see a show made from the books. /only half-kidding

I did like seeing the control Baldwin had over the Congregation, and even though Juliette is a petulant pain in the ass, I liked her walking out of the church (and her outfit). Otherwise, take a hint, lady. 

And Matthew and Diana just talking is preferable to the "strong sexual content." How is it they have more chemistry discovering things than when they get in a clinch? I found myself yelling at the screen, "Okay, we get it, you're going down on her and she's in instant raptures, and it's still boring!"

But still a yes to Diana's blue wardrobe, chiseled vampires, and location porn. And the aunts. 😁

[dubbel zout]

9 hours ago, CAM said:

Ultimately, I think that if this Season had been 10 episodes vs. 8 they could have taken a bit more time to build this world and explain/explore the nuances of why certain things are important.

I think the pacing is more of the problem than the number of episodes. To explain things means having people sit around talking, and I don't think shows trust audiences to tolerate that anymore. So instead we get too many scenes of Diana riding/walking/running in the countryside. I'm all for location porn, but it can't take the place of building the story.

3 hours ago, HouseofBeck said:

I found myself yelling at the screen, "Okay, we get it, you're going down on her and she's in instant raptures, and it's still boring!"

Same here. And really, how else would she react? Bored and staring at her fingernails? (That would be more interesting, heh.) 

[AnimeMania]

6 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

And really, how else would she react?

Not so much teeth?