S01.E02: Rituals

[CooperTV]

Quote

Max navigates his diagnosis while Dr. Sharpe encourages him to make a plan. Meanwhile, Dr. Bloom encourages Reynolds (Jocko Sims) to take a chance and Dr. Kapoor and Iggy work together to help a child.

10/02/2018

[starri]

The New York Public Schools were so serious about medicating that kid, they prescribed him a medication that's not approved for use in the US.

[TWP]

Squamous cell carcinoma isn't all that deadly unless it's a lung cancer....and squamous cell lung cancer is pretty much only found in smokers (unlike some of the other lung cancers).   I wish they had researched the topic better.

I didn't watch this episode, because I just got done rolling my eyes over the last one ;-).  And ending with the deadly squamous cell cancer? LOLOLOL.

[alexa]

I enjoyed the episode, but I found the storyline re: medicating the child a bit odd.  I don't know a lot about it, but I felt like at the very least he didn't need that many meds....

[SunnyBeBe]

I do like this show, but, that loud jazz music that they insert in certain scenes really annoys me.  I think it's supposed to infer stress and anxiety in the scene.  I guess it's working. 

[ClareWalks]

I am absolutely gobsmacked that the school district apparently gave ZERO thought to why that kid might have started punching. Obviously the "victim" said something to him and nobody thought to ask "hey, what'd that kid say before you started hitting him?" I mean, really. Nobody asked the kid why he was whaling on that little shithead? I'm not saying violence is always the answer, but did they really think he was just naturally super violent even though he'd never done anything like that before? God. I want to like this show but there's some stuff here that is really really hard to swallow.

[Biggie B]

I can't stand Tom/Max's wife (Tax? Mom? I simply cannot see this actor as anyone else but Tom Keane - I just can't!) - there is just something about her that annoys me. And if he doesn't tell her he has cancer, that may be it for me. I know she's not supposed to be under stress. Well - too bad. That's how life goes. It sucks, but she needs to know that her husband - the father of her child - has a serious illness and even worse, is choosing to basically do nothing about it. I guess he's not terribly concerned that his child might not grow up with a dad? Now, I didn't read the book but I am assuming that Max overcomes his cancer, otherwise this would just be a limited run mini-series.

I was also sort of hoping the heart patient would die on the table. The ritual didn't save her, her surgeon did. He insisted on continuing his attempts to revive her, despite the other doctor telling him to stop. I suppose one could argue that he had faith...faith that she wouldn't die. But of course all credit goes to the ritual. Ugh. 

The British doctor is growing on me a little. Last week, I found her insufferable but she was a little better this time around. I'm glad that her patient's situation upset her and pushed her out of her comfort zone. Even if that patient dies, and indeed her prognosis seems grim, at least the doctor listened to her and comforted her in a time of need. 

I like the child psychiatrist, he seems like a decent guy. It was obvious that things would work out for that child, though. I guess that whole story line served mainly to lay the foundation of the other doctor's mystery - he IS a parent after all, and something horrible happened that has caused an estrangement between him and his son. 

I've been fortunate enough to work for some huge, global corporations with 60,000+ employees, and you know what? The CEO of each place I've worked makes time for EVERY appointment and obligation. Seeing Max run around like a chicken with no head, purposely avoiding things, really pisses me off. Sure, he must know he's rocking the boat and stirring the pot, and perhaps doesn't want to face the possible repercussions. But it makes him look scattered, incompetent, and untrustworthy. Max has a seemingly very good assistant - let her do her job, and create a schedule every day that will fulfill his administrative obligations, which in turn will free him up to actually be a doctor, too. Yes, emergencies happen in medicine, of course - and I'm sure his colleagues in the industry are well aware that Max may have to dash off suddenly, or might be held up - but for heaven's sake, running around like that is just dumb - and shows that he's not the right person for the job, despite his great intentions. 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Biggie B

[luvapickle]

2 hours ago, TWP said:

Squamous cell carcinoma isn't all that deadly unless it's a lung cancer....and squamous cell lung cancer is pretty much only found in smokers (unlike some of the other lung cancers).   I wish they had researched the topic better.

I didn.t watch this episode, because I just got done rolling my eyes over the last one ;-).  And ending with the deadly squamous cell cancer? LOLOLOL.

"Squamous cell carcinoma isn't all that deadly unless it's a lung cancer"  If it's spread, like the lymph nodes, yes, it can be deadly. Goodwin is based on Dr. Eric Manheimer  who had throat cancer (Squamous cell carcinoma). It wasn't the cancer so much, but the treatments that were so bad, he wanted to stop them & die.  I will also tell you my brother had it, was in remission for 2 years. And it came back. He passed away 3 months after learning it had come back. So yes, people can die from it when it's not lung cancer. 

[festivus]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I do like this show, but, that loud jazz music that they insert in certain scenes really annoys me.  I think it's supposed to infer stress and anxiety in the scene.  I guess it's working. 

Yeah, I thought the same. Annoying. 

 

The little speech/story on the roof came off kinda weird. All I could think was "ACTING", folks. Freema brought it back down to something approaching the way normal people who hardly know each other talk.

I feel like I've seen the ritual story somewhere before. House, maybe.

[doodlebug]

5 hours ago, TWP said:

Squamous cell carcinoma isn't all that deadly unless it's a lung cancer....and squamous cell lung cancer is pretty much only found in smokers (unlike some of the other lung cancers).   I wish they had researched the topic better.

I didn't watch this episode, because I just got done rolling my eyes over the last one ;-).  And ending with the deadly squamous cell cancer? LOLOLOL.

This just is not true.  There are plenty of squamous cell cancers that can be fatal including those that affect the mouth and throat.  Most cervical cancer is squamous.  Bladder cancers, anal cancers, tonsillar and tongue cancers can be squamous and they can all be fatal.

BTW, I am an OB/GYN and the ridiculous notion that a pregnant woman who is spotting (gasp!) must stay on complete bedrest and be spared any emotional trauma lest she somehow die from the stress is utterly ridiculous and I wanted to slap the OB/GYN upside the head when she said it.  I believe the wife is supposed to have a placenta previa, placenta over her cervix.  Whether it bleeds or not is kind of a crapshoot, certainly she should avoid physically strenuous activity, cannot have sex and needs to be concerned with any active bleeding; but the notion that her husband cannot tell her he has cancer and presumably should wait 4 months until she delivers before getting treated is just stupid.  Much better if he, not being an OB and thinking emotionally and not logically, decided to spare her the stress.  It is pretty clear their entire marriage is hanging by a thread; finding out he withheld important information from her is going to be far worse emotionally. 

I'm about done with this show, it is totally unrealistic in every way.  A doctor wearing his long white coat to court?  A parent is unable to change her mind about agreeing with a school system about medicating her kid without filing suit?  A school system doctor is able to put a kid on meds that aren't approved by the FDA?  A patient who has a cardiac arrest and is apparently pulseless long enough that most docs think she is not going to survive is not only going to survive but doesn't suffer any brain damage from lack of oxygen?

[starri]

37 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

A school system doctor is able to put a kid on meds that aren't approved by the FDA?

Yeah, I'm still incredibly confused by that.  If they just wanted a scary sounding psych med, there are plenty that are given to gets that young.  Zotepine doesn't even have an entry on UpToDate.

[eel2178]

2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

 A patient who has a cardiac arrest and is apparently pulseless long enough that most docs think she is not going to survive is not only going to survive but doesn't suffer any brain damage from lack of oxygen?

This is pretty typical of Hollywood medical dramas. The patient always survives after everyone in the room is sure he's dead. For an example, in the season 7 ending/ season 8 opening episodes of JAG, Bud is pronounced dead after a prolonged resuscitation attempt, then his heart suddenly starts beating again on its own. Unfortunately, non-medical people believe crap like this is really possible.  They want resuscitations to continue even when it is obvious all hope is lost to the people who actually know what they're doing. 

[Xantia]

2 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I'm about done with this show, it is totally unrealistic in every way.  A doctor wearing his long white coat to court?  A parent is unable to change her mind about agreeing with a school system about medicating her kid without filing suit?  A school system doctor is able to put a kid on meds that aren't approved by the FDA?  A patient who has a cardiac arrest and is apparently pulseless long enough that most docs think she is not going to survive is not only going to survive but doesn't suffer any brain damage from lack of oxygen?

What cracked me up were the three doctors all trying to push the trolley with the unstable cardiac patient from the ER to surgery. This hospital needs to have fewer courtrooms and farmers markets - and more nurses and transport people. And the head of the ER had nothing better to be doing with her time than wandering around, flirting with cardio surgical guy while he's trying to scrub. 

[rhys]

Why did they keep showing us the heart patient having issues whenever some machine was placed on her gurney? I thought there was going to be some "aha" moment, but nothing ever came of that.

[doodlebug]

On ‎10‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 7:23 PM, rhys said:

Why did they keep showing us the heart patient having issues whenever some machine was placed on her gurney? I thought there was going to be some "aha" moment, but nothing ever came of that.

Because the whole scenario was very poorly written?

 

On ‎10‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 6:38 PM, Xantia said:

What cracked me up were the three doctors all trying to push the trolley with the unstable cardiac patient from the ER to surgery. This hospital needs to have fewer courtrooms and farmers markets - and more nurses and transport people. And the head of the ER had nothing better to be doing with her time than wandering around, flirting with cardio surgical guy while he's trying to scrub. 

You'd think that, at the very least a nurse might pop up to turn off the darned alarms that keep ringing.  They must be on a very tight budget and they can't afford a couple of extras in scrubs to pretend to be ER staff.

They also repeatedly resuscitated the woman without bothering to intubate her to be sure they could keep her oxygenated on the way to the OR.  The 'medicine' on this show is awful.

[ClareWalks]

52 minutes ago, rhys said:

Why did they keep showing us the heart patient having issues whenever some machine was placed on her gurney? I thought there was going to be some "aha" moment, but nothing ever came of that.

Yeah, the extreme closeup of the wheels turning and her flat-lining every time seemed like it was supposed to go somewhere, like "oh, the gurney is caught on the power cord for this machine or some shit," (or whatever the scientific medical lingo is) but it went nowhere. Awkward.

[starri]

I thought they were showing us that she wasn't going to make it to surgery if they didn't do the ritual on her.  Once they did it, she didn't crash.

[Kleav]

4 hours ago, doodlebug said:

I'm about done with this show

Interesting post. I hope you stay with the show so you can teach us about these things. Thanks!

[ClareWalks]

4 minutes ago, starri said:

I thought they were showing us that she wasn't going to make it to surgery if they didn't do the ritual on her.  Once they did it, she didn't crash.

Yeah, it was just so clumsy the way they did it. Is it really a medical "thing" for people to just flatline every time their bed is moved? I was flummoxed, I say, flummoxed.

[eel2178]

47 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

They also repeatedly resuscitated the wamonwithout bothering to intubate her to be sure they could keep her oxygenated on the way to the OR.  The 'medicine' on this show is awful.

As I said above, this is typical Hollywood. Nobody ever goes straight for the airway. Chest compressions, which are also never done correctly, and defibrillation are way more dramatic and take priority over the established and correct resuscitation procedures. 

[starri]

9 minutes ago, eel2178 said:

As I said above, this is typical Hollywood. Nobody ever goes straight for the airway. Chest compressions, which are also never done correctly, and defibrillation are way more dramatic and take priority over the established and correct resuscitation procedures. 

You can't do true ACLS-quality compressions on an actor.  That way lies madness.  I can forgive that bit of dramatic license.

What I have a harder time is when they attempt to shock either PEA or asystole.

[EyewatchTV211]

In the states where I have worked/interned in schools, a school can NEVER require that a kid be medicated. Pretty sure that's a national thing. Unless the school wants to pay for that medication, and even then. And IEPs aren't for what the parent is required to do. Schools will document what a parent says on the IEP, but that is not part of any action step. They mandate what the school is required to do. If we could control what parents did and what a child's home life is like in general, so much would be different. Obviously not possible. And parents have all the power with the IEP anyway. If they agree to something at one point and then change their minds later, the school has to follow that. A parent can want an IEP one day and then refuse special education the next and take back consent. Schools can choose to take a parent to court if they feel that the parent is denying a child something the child needs, but it is EXTREMELY rare that a school system finds this worthwhile. And a child with a disability is guaranteed a free, appropriate public education. So you can't just threaten that the kid can't come back to school if he's not medicated. It would be extremely difficult to expel a child from the public school system altogether, and if the public schools can't provide appropriate services than the school system has to pay for the child to go to a nonpublic school that can. I could go on with the issues raised by the show.

[doodlebug]

7 minutes ago, starri said:

You can't do true ACLS-quality compressions on an actor.  That way lies madness.  I can forgive that bit of dramatic license.

What I have a harder time is when they attempt to shock either PEA or asystole.

Yeah, I'm ok with them doing non-legit chest compressions rather than fracturing somebody's sternum; but these shows have medical consultants, it's not that tough to find out the proper ABC's of resuscitation and show some semblance of it on TV.

I am not even an above-the-waist kinda doc, and the defibrillation of the patient who flatlines is one of my big annoyances.  Once again, it ain't that hard.  The writers could each pitch in a couple of bucks and buy an ACLS manual if they're too cheap to hire an expert.

Defibrillation is apparently much more dramatic than any other resuscitative effort since it gets used on TV about 100x more than it is ever needed in real life.  For that matter, it works better on TV, too.  Of course, TV makes it look like fit, young, healthy people are more likely to code than the frail and elderly, too, and that about 95% of people who arrest are going to be saved and make a full recovery; so there's that, too.

[doodlebug]

42 minutes ago, ClareWalks said:

Yeah, it was just so clumsy the way they did it. Is it really a medical "thing" for people to just flatline every time their bed is moved? I was flummoxed, I say, flummoxed.

No, of course not.  Someone thought it was more dramatic that way.

[ClareWalks]

2 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

No, of course not.  Someone thought it was more dramatic that way.

Geez louise. I found it had the opposite effect, instead of increasing the tension it just made me go "WTF?" And I don't even have medical training. I can only imagine how weird this episode would be to someone who knew how much BS was truly going on.

[Danielg342]

Solid, if unspectacular. Ryan Eggold's Max Goodwin is still charming, and I'm warming to Tyler Labine's Dr. Frome and Janet Montgomery's Dr. Bloom. In fact, I'd say most of the cast does very well- no matter how treacly and strange things get at this hospital, at least the actors give the characters some life and make things watchable.

I'd say what stuck out most about this episode was how, well, "spiritual" it felt. Perhaps it's because this show is really trying to emphasize the hospital serving "a higher purpose" and that hospital stories share a lot with religious stories anyway, which is why the show wanted to really present this vibe.

I'm undecided on how well it's working here, because New Amsterdam hasn't exactly struck the right kind of balance with this tone. If unchecked, NA really risks becoming preachy and sanctimonious, which will turn a lot of people off. The only way this "spiritual"-ness will work is if NA truly emphasizes the idea of "hope", and how there will always be "hope". This needs to be a show that is about reassurance, without the show getting smug or sounding like it "knows all the answers". It's a very difficult balance to achieve, but if there's a set of actors who can sell it, it's this set.

[starri]

18 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

Defibrillation is apparently much more dramatic than any other resuscitative effort since it gets used on TV about 100x more than it is ever needed in real life.  For that matter, it works better on TV, too.  Of course, TV makes it look like fit, young, healthy people are more likely to code than the frail and elderly, too, and that about 95% of people who arrest are going to be saved and make a full recovery; so there's that, too.

During my ICU months, the thing that was hardest to explain to the families of terminal patients was that it doesn't work like TV.  Worse still when they didn't believe us and then had to see the reality before they were ushered out when the code started.

[rwlevin]

15 hours ago, doodlebug said:

it's not that tough to find out the proper ABC's of resuscitation and show some semblance of it on TV.

It's actually CAB's of resuscitation now. A huge study done here and the UK was published in 2010 that showed compressions first helped save lives, primarily because people tended to do the breathing part wrong. 

[Guest]

I like this show so far, but it definitely has problems. Mainly, I like the main character and the psychologist and the doctor who wanted to get rid of the waiting rooms.  

[doodlebug]

1 hour ago, rwlevin said:

It's actually CAB's of resuscitation now. A huge study done here and the UK was published in 2010 that showed compressions first helped save lives, primarily because people tended to do the breathing part wrong. 

True, but, in a hospital, with a patient who is going to the OR for open heart surgery, it makes no sense whatsoever not to intubate her to manage her airway since she has arrested repeatedly.  We're talking about medical professionals who should be able to do the breathing part right.

[TOWTooMuchTV]

Was I the only one who thought it was going to turn out that Dr. Kapoor had a wife who died in childbirth? 

I didn't like this episode as much as the pilot. I think the story with the kid took me out of it because there was SO much ridiculousness. First of all, did I hear wrong or did they say he had been on these meds for years? He didn't look any younger in the fight video. Speaking of which, who so artfully filmed that, including dramatic close up of the bleeding bully, without attempting to stop it? That was no surveillance camera video or cell phone video taken by an elementary school kid. I won't even get into the IEP and medicating of kids shenanigans. But- was he supposed to be totally unable to speak or respond when medicated? His school team was ok with that? Not to mention....who goes to the park to build Legos....not to mention forgetting to bring the actual Legos....? What a bizarre story of the dad's death, though it was obvious from his playing with the Lego in the first scene that those would play into it. As a parent, I would have very much appreciated a story about a dad who was mortally wounded by stepping on too many Legos....hehe

[eel2178]

20 hours ago, starri said:

You can't do true ACLS-quality compressions on an actor.  That way lies madness.  I can forgive that bit of dramatic license.

What I have a harder time is when they attempt to shock either PEA or asystole.

I  would think that we are so advanced in computer graphics by now that they could do the compressions on a mannequin with the actor's head superimposed onto it and still have it look reasonably realistic.

Edited October 4, 2018 by eel2178

[eel2178]

4 hours ago, rwlevin said:

It's actually CAB's of resuscitation now. A huge study done here and the UK was published in 2010 that showed compressions first helped save lives, primarily because people tended to do the breathing part wrong. 

The thought of that terrifies me. The majority of people who collapse just need airway support. Diving into compressions, especially without checking for a pulse first, is going to do more harm than good (as someone else stated above: broken ribs, new arrhythmias, etc).

[starri]

2 minutes ago, eel2178 said:

I  would think that we are so advanced in computer graphics by now that they could do the compressions on a mannequin with the actor's head superimposed onto it and still have it look reasonably realistic.

Maybe, but when they only have so much money to spend per episode, it's probably not worth it for something that's a relatively minor part of the plot.

[eel2178]

20 hours ago, doodlebug said:

  The writers could each pitch in a couple of bucks and buy an ACLS manual if they're too cheap to hire an expert.

I met the producer of All My Children when it was still on the air. I asked who did her medical consulting. If she said no one, I was going to offer my services. Instead she said, "We have excellent medical consultants. We just don't always listen to what they tell us to do. We're going more for 'dramatic effect' than 'realism.'"

[eel2178]

20 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Defibrillation is apparently much more dramatic than any other resuscitative effort since it gets used on TV about 100x more than it is ever needed in real life.  For that matter, it works better on TV, too.  Of course, TV makes it look like fit, young, healthy people are more likely to code than the frail and elderly, too, and that about 95% of people who arrest are going to be saved and make a full recovery; so there's that, too.

Have you ever seen a resuscitation team burst into applause after they bring the patient back? It is the gold standard on medical shows; however, I've never seen it in real life.

[tvrox]

While the storyline with the kid was unrealistic (no way would the school doctor come to the hospital to argue about it with the hospital docs, she would have just called-and the CEO wouldn't have been involved) it did shine light on the very real problem of overmedicating kids with powerful psychiatric meds (and the side effects that can result from that), so I'm willing to overlook the unrealistic stuff.

[doodlebug]

6 hours ago, eel2178 said:

Have you ever seen a resuscitation team burst into applause after they bring the patient back? It is the gold standard on medical shows; however, I've never seen it in real life.

No, because 1. It’s exhausting running a code, not to mention they’re too busy cleaning up the mess from the code. 2.Often the revival doesn’t last and the patient will code again. And again. And again.  No reason to get cocky, and 3. They aren’t a**holes.

[biakbiak]

9 hours ago, eel2178 said:

I met the producer of All My Children when it was still on the air. I asked who did her medical consulting. If she said no one, I was going to offer my services. Instead she said, "We have excellent medical consultants. We just don't always listen to what they tell us to do. We're going more for 'dramatic effect' than 'realism.'"

Yeah when push come to shove either due to plot, filming restrictions, money etc. the  experts are going to be overruled.

[thuganomics85]

So, New Amsterdam has it's own courtroom as well?  I'm starting to think this place really has everything!  Somewhere down the line, they're going to reveal that New Amsterdam also has a zoo, a movie theater, a rocking climbing wall, and a disco/dance club because.... reasons?

Enjoyed the Frome/Kapoor duo, even though I couldn't get too invested in the actual case, because even I could tell that a lot of the stuff going on was probably only about partially accurate to how things would have played out in real life with medication and the school's involvement.  Still, it did a decent job at shining a light on how dangerous overmedicating children can be.

As of now, the show seems to making Reynolds kind of a dick with his behavior last week and him getting all huffy about the whole ritual thing here, which felt less about him being concerned about an infection and more about his own ego.  I hope they give some some better qualities soon, or I'm going to start wondering what Bloom sees in him.

So, what is Sharpe's position, exactly?  She seems to be involved with cancer patients, but is she running the department or just an advisor?

Max hiding his cancer from his wife is totally going to backfire, because secrets never stay hidden in TV land!

Still not great, but Freema Agyeman, Janet Montgomery, and Anupam Kher are enough to give it more chances.

[biakbiak]

12 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, New Amsterdam has it's own courtroom as well?  I'm starting to think this place really has everything! 

New Amsterdam is supposed to be Bellevue which was what the show was initially going to be called and while it doesn’t have a zoo it does in fact have a courtroom. 

Edited October 5, 2018 by biakbiak

[Texasmom1970]

Love Ryan/Tom but there are really no characters I care about enough to keep me watching this mess. Also, I am not a dancer and do not mean to insult any. But when he said his wife was such a talented dancer I flashed back to the brief moment in we previously saw her dancing and thought yeah not so much. I know I am bitchy!

[luvapickle]

On ‎10‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 8:12 PM, VMepicgrl said:

In the states where I have worked/interned in schools, a school can NEVER require that a kid be medicated. Pretty sure that's a national thing. Unless the school wants to pay for that medication, and even then. And IEPs aren't for what the parent is required to do. Schools will document what a parent says on the IEP, but that is not part of any action step. They mandate what the school is required to do. If we could control what parents did and what a child's home life is like in general, so much would be different. Obviously not possible. And parents have all the power with the IEP anyway. If they agree to something at one point and then change their minds later, the school has to follow that. A parent can want an IEP one day and then refuse special education the next and take back consent. Schools can choose to take a parent to court if they feel that the parent is denying a child something the child needs, but it is EXTREMELY rare that a school system finds this worthwhile. And a child with a disability is guaranteed a free, appropriate public education. So you can't just threaten that the kid can't come back to school if he's not medicated. It would be extremely difficult to expel a child from the public school system altogether, and if the public schools can't provide appropriate services than the school system has to pay for the child to go to a nonpublic school that can. I could go on with the issues raised by the show.

I think this one was written as an abstract of those schools who want to medicate those with supposed ADHD. We had a couple here where, the parents took the district to court & of course the court sided with the parents.

14 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Yeah when push come to shove either due to plot, filming restrictions, money etc. the  experts are going to be overruled.

That's what they said on ER & both of them went to medical school. They said if they actually did everything medically precise, the viewers would be bored to death.

[Xantia]

1 hour ago, luvapickle said:

That's what they said on ER & both of them went to medical school. They said if they actually did everything medically precise, the viewers would be bored to death.

'The Fall' did a great resus scene that I think is v realistic - I don't think they show the monitors once, Calm staff and clear communication (lol at the "bleep the surgeons again, none of their he needs a CT shite, he needs to go to theatre").Very different from the New Amsterdam way of doing things.

Ok quality youtube clip: 

[EyewatchTV211]

2 hours ago, luvapickle said:

I think this one was written as an abstract of those schools who want to medicate those with supposed ADHD. We had a couple here where, the parents took the district to court & of course the court sided with the parents.

That's what they said on ER & both of them went to medical school. They said if they actually did everything medically precise, the viewers would be bored to death.

What state was that in? Like I mentioned - everywhere I've been, there's definitely been plenty of kids that we thought would benefit from being on ADHD meds. But we can't force a parent to do it. So it would never get to court anyway. Though I've never been in districts with actual school psychiatrists (I'm a school psychologist). I didn't even know there were school psychiatrists, but something did come up when I googled it. So I guess it could be trickier in those situations. It still surprises me that a school could even try to force it, though. 

[Kelda Feegle]

The spitting in the ritual grossed me out. I also wonder if they allowed that ritual what if the next patient requests one that involves sacrificing a goat or something?  Religious discrimination if they don't allow that? 

This show is making me cranky. 

[starri]

14 hours ago, VMepicgrl said:

What state was that in? Like I mentioned - everywhere I've been, there's definitely been plenty of kids that we thought would benefit from being on ADHD meds. But we can't force a parent to do it. So it would never get to court anyway. Though I've never been in districts with actual school psychiatrists (I'm a school psychologist). I didn't even know there were school psychiatrists, but something did come up when I googled it. So I guess it could be trickier in those situations. It still surprises me that a school could even try to force it, though. 

I can't speak to other states, but New York a court (not a school) can compel someone to remain on psychiatric medication.  The guidelines for when it's an option are fairly strict, and while it is technically possible to have an order for a child over the parents' objection, I can't imagine any psychiatrist wanting to go that far.

[EyewatchTV211]

4 hours ago, starri said:

I can't speak to other states, but New York a court (not a school) can compel someone to remain on psychiatric medication.  The guidelines for when it's an option are fairly strict, and while it is technically possible to have an order for a child over the parents' objection, I can't imagine any psychiatrist wanting to go that far.

Thanks for the info. I can see a court doing that, as you say. But public schools, I would be shocked anywhere in the US. The whole point is that we take any child, no matter what. We do not pick and choose students like private schools and many charter schools. Like I said in a previous post, there are extreme cases where students cannot be served by a public school and must then be served elsewhere at the district's expense. Those are rare, extreme cases though. Maybe a little more frequent in small, rural districts with few program types if there are tough situations. I do not have experiences there. The particular case and situation on this show bothered me, however. And we've had plenty of students demonstrating very challenging behavior. There seem to be more and more these days...

[Tdoc72]

On 10/3/2018 at 6:38 PM, Xantia said:

What cracked me up were the three doctors all trying to push the trolley with the unstable cardiac patient from the ER to surgery. This hospital needs to have fewer courtrooms and farmers markets - and more nurses and transport people. And the head of the ER had nothing better to be doing with her time than wandering around, flirting with cardio surgical guy while he's trying to scrub. 

To be fair, she did ask Dr. HCIH (How can I Help) for more nurses. 

On 10/5/2018 at 10:14 AM, Texasmom1970 said:

Love Ryan/Tom but there are really no characters I care about enough to keep me watching this mess. Also, I am not a dancer and do not mean to insult any. But when he said his wife was such a talented dancer I flashed back to the brief moment in we previously saw her dancing and thought yeah not so much. I know I am bitchy!

Didn’t he say the wife wasn’t supposed to be dancing?  That she had to give it up or something before?  But we saw her dancing in the 1st episode. Did she cause this?

 

HCIH count?  I think 3 or 4. I was going to count while watching but forgot. 

[juliet73]

On 10/3/2018 at 11:09 AM, ClareWalks said:

I am absolutely gobsmacked that the school district apparently gave ZERO thought to why that kid might have started punching. Obviously the "victim" said something to him and nobody thought to ask "hey, what'd that kid say before you started hitting him?" I mean, really. Nobody asked the kid why he was whaling on that little shithead? I'm not saying violence is always the answer, but did they really think he was just naturally super violent even though he'd never done anything like that before? God. I want to like this show but there's some stuff here that is really really hard to swallow.

THIS!!!  

I've never worked in a school or in the medical field, but I think it's very odd that the school "psychiatrist" puts a child on 4 different medications without any type of diagnosis!  Since N.A. shrink couldn't figure out what was wrong with him, why didn't he call the school shrink and ask before taking the case to court to get him off all his meds.  If there was something seriously wrong with him (behavorial or mental) I would think the Dr would want to know before he changed anything.  Also, I'm not a drug expert, but I doubt you could take someone immediately off four different medications at once - an antipsychotic (not approved in the US), Zoloft, Ritalin, and Ambien without any type of side effects.  And I can guarantee he would not return to his normal, happy self within a few hours!!! 

I like the cardiac surgeon and the other Dr that was helping the psychiatrist.  The rest of them are meh.  I'll give this show one more episode...