S04.E08: Coushatta

[Bryce Lynch]

Make up Girl's acting skills have really improved.  I remember when Jimmy was trying to get someone to do the ad for Saul Goodman Productions.  She was terrible and Jimmy said, I thought you were president of the drama club and she replied that she was the treasurer. (One of my favorite lines).  

[DangerousMinds]

55 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

You can have all of the money in the world and it won't matter if you aren't happy. 

Just what I was thinking! Money isn't everything.

[Bryce Lynch]

2 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Like a lot of operations that come up against logistic nightmares, they are trying to have it both ways, by resorting to half measures. Might it make sense to transport these guys to, say, Las Vegas, via elaborate 15 hour ride which keeps them ignorant as to where they are working? Sure. They are already months behind schedule, however. Also, bringing prostitutes to the men, or the men to prostitutes is rather risky, too, in that prostitutes have a lot of contact with law enforcement, and a bunch of Germans are memorable in this situation.

It's really just a bad situation, without a good solution, due to the project taking so long.

If secrecy was supposed to be such a priority, I think falling a couple of days more behind schedule would be a small price to pay to maintain it.  

[PeterPirate]

Just now, DangerousMinds said:

Just what I was thinking! Money isn't everything.

As they* say, "Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac".  Kim got one over on the prosecutor, and it was a turn-on.  

 

 

* I looked it up, and it turns out that "they" was Henry Kissinger.  Ick.    

[Bryce Lynch]

8 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Just what I was thinking! Money isn't everything.

It's a lot easier being happy when money isn't a problem.  

[DangerousMinds]

5 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

It's a lot easier being happy when money isn't a problem.  

True, but I don't think Kim is going to be in danger of being destitute even if she quits law. She'all always do ok.

[Should Be Working]

1 hour ago, CigarDoug said:

You are overthinking this. Yes, WE know it is an elaborate scam, because we saw it unfold. But even if the DA is suspicious, which she is, her mind isn't going to make the leap that the scammers have dozens of cell phones and Jimmy rode a bus all the way to LA to pull it off. She doesn't have the resources to do DNA testing and fingerprinting all those letters. Not for a minor felony.

If this was a murder case, if the FBI were involved, yes, the good guys would be a lot more careful, do a lot more digging (like sending local agents to investigate the church), test the envelopes, the handwriting, etc. and the scam would have been exposed.

So the ADA spent all that time and effort calling the phone numbers listed in that mass mailing Jimmy organized. But never once thought of calling the Coushatta police or county sheriff to confirm that the Free Will Baptist church even existed and, if yes, their address and phone number. 

Edited September 25, 2018 by Should Be Working

[Bannon]

31 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

If secrecy was supposed to be such a priority, I think falling a couple of days more behind schedule would be a small price to pay to maintain it.  

Sure, and it made sense to delay the launch of the Challenger,  for warmer weather, rather than have a world wide television audience witness a bunch of astronauts getting killed.

Nobody is immune to having imposed schedules deliver disaster.

[Ohwell]

9 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Still an impressive plan, but I've already been hearing about how Baptists actually call it the Lord's Supper instead of communion, so I wonder if that slip by Jimmy could end up being costly if the D.A. remains suspicious.

I grew up in a Baptist church and we called it "communion."  Granted, it wasn't in the south so maybe it's different there. 

[Bannon]

1 hour ago, Should Be Working said:

So the ADA spent all that time and effort calling the phone numbers listed in that mass mailing Jimmy organized. But never once thought of calling the Coushatta police or county sheriff to confirm that the Free Will Baptist church even existed and, if yes, their address and phone number. 

 

It took 10-20 minutes to make the calls. The whole con depends on it being entirely pointless to go this much work on a con, for someone as low level like Huell. Was it risky? Sure. Apparently that has great appeal to Kim. I didn't peg her for that kind of self destructive streak, but it isn't unheard of. Usually manifests itself as a gambling addiction, but different strokes for different folks, I guess

Edited September 25, 2018 by Bannon
typo

[Ohwell]

When Saul was licking all those envelopes, I immediately thought of Susan on Seinfeld licking those wedding invitations and then dying from ingesting all that glue. 

[Captanne]

12 hours ago, WritinMan said:

Damn...another great episode.

I don't think the German guys are going home.

Ol' Kim likes the naughty life. Didn't see that coming. I thought all this was going to drive a serious wedge between them.

Loved the look the other lawyer gave Kim at the end of their conversation with the judge.

I have never thought the German guys were going home.  Glad to see my cold, dark-hearted cynicism rewarded.

[PeterPirate]

5 hours ago, Should Be Working said:

So the ADA spent all that time and effort calling the phone numbers listed in that mass mailing Jimmy organized. But never once thought of calling the Coushatta police or county sheriff to confirm that the Free Will Baptist church even existed and, if yes, their address and phone number. 

 

Well, she only made three calls.  We don't know what she did after that, or what she will do next.  

I like this ADA.  Whatever we might think about her prosecution being overzealous, the fact that Kim had to resort to crime shows the ADA was acting properly.  I highly doubt that more than 5 seconds went by before the idea that she was being scammed came into her head.  

There's also Judge Neelix to consider.  His reaction if/when he learns that a fraud was perpetrated on him will be like a matter/anti-matter reaction.  

The DA's office may not have the resources to track down the truth about Coushatta, LA.  But Howard does have the resources to do so, if he gets wind of what happened.  Indeed, he may have been keeping tabs on the adventures of Wexler and McGill.  

Edited September 25, 2018 by PeterPirate

[Bryce Lynch]

9 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

When Saul was licking all those envelopes, I immediately thought of Susan on Seinfeld licking those wedding invitations and then dying from ingesting all that glue. 

LOL.  I was thinking "Rookie mistake".  When Jimmy had dinner with Chuck and Rebecca, during his first week in the mail room, he said his tongue was like hamburger from licking so many stamps before he found out there was a sponge for that...rookie mistake.  

12 minutes ago, Captanne said:

I have never thought the German guys were going home.  Glad to see my cold, dark-hearted cynicism rewarded.

Isn't cold, dark-hearted cynicism its own reward? :)

[peeayebee]

20 minutes ago, Bannon said:

It took 10-20 minutes to make the calls. The whole con depends on it being entirely pointless to go this much work on a con, for someone as low level like Huell.

Right. It doesn't even enter the ADA's mind that this could be a con. She's making the calls to find out why Huell is so beloved. I do believe that this is going to bug her enough that she'll wonder if it's an elaborate scam. Perhaps she'll go to Coushatta or maybe just make more calls and more googling, though making the trip is more visually interesting for a TV show.

[Conan Troutman]

I don't know why Gus let the Germans out in the first place. Werner had to wear a mug when Mike took him to the lab at first, why not do that for everyone? If they need company, Gus could've brought in  some prostitutes. I always assumed Gus had them built their own little bar near the lab, but apparently not. Maybe he wasn't quite that paranoid back then and we're seeing one of the reasons he'll become that way. 

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, peeayebee said:

Right. It doesn't even enter the ADA's mind that this could be a con. She's making the calls to find out why Huell is so beloved. I do believe that this is going to bug her enough that she'll wonder if it's an elaborate scam. Perhaps she'll go to Coushatta or maybe just make more calls and more googling, though making the trip is more visually interesting for a TV show.

Unless she first finds evidence online or on the phone, I doubt her boss would approve the time missed from working other cases and the cost of a trip to Louisiana.   That said, a little due diligence on the phone and online would certainly show something is fishy.  If Jimmy used real names of Coushatta residents, she can look them up online and call their home numbers.  If he used fake names, she can find that out online as well.   

It was a fun scheme, but it seems like Jimmy and Kim left behind too much of a trail.  The handwriting will be similar on multiple letters, Jimmy's fingerprints will be all over the letters and it should be easy to prove that the church doesn't exist and the letter writers either don't exist or were impersonated.   

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's Previously.TV's EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP of the episode!

Better Call Saul Rediscovers The Lost Art Of Letter Writing

Kim's plan for Huell is revealed, and it's cramping the hell out of Jimmy's hand in our EPIC OLD-SCHOOL RECAP of 'Coushatta.'

[Bannon]

23 minutes ago, peeayebee said:

Right. It doesn't even enter the ADA's mind that this could be a con. She's making the calls to find out why Huell is so beloved. I do believe that this is going to bug her enough that she'll wonder if it's an elaborate scam. Perhaps she'll go to Coushatta or maybe just make more calls and more googling, though making the trip is more visually interesting for a TV show.

I'm not predicting it won't be uncovered. It certainly wouldn't be unreasonable for it to be. What I'm saying is that this is a nothing case for an Assistant D.A. with a massive caseload. From a time nanagement perspective it makes no sense for her to spend much energy to give Huell substantial prison time for an offense that a perp with no previous history of violence would normally be subjected to. Frankly , when Kim showed up with 3 four hundred dollar an hour associates, it would have been believable for the assistant D.A. to cut a deal for time served right then. The city doesn't want to have a trial for a defendent with a high powered legal team, on a nothing case.  The prosecutor has a bug up her butt on this case though,  for some reason, so she was willing to proceed. Once the judge told her he wasn't interested in a circus trial, however, she came to her senses on how to spend her time. Might she get that bug ip her butt again, and uncover Kim's con job? Sure. Then again, she might look at her caseload, concerning seriously violent crimes, and forget about Huell and his bag full of sandwiches.

[sempervivum]

I don't want to beat this topic to death, but why didn't Huell just ask for a trial? I can't believe 12 reasonable people wouldn't have acquitted him- he's acting as security for Jimmy following a robbery, sees what he thinks is another assault on his boss, and hits the guy with a soft bag of sandwiches? Even though he has a minor record, what jury will throw the book at him?

Kim is actually sexually aroused by Jimmy's con (the passionate embrace in the court stairway). If I were Jimmy, it would seem obvious that respectability is not the way to keep her interest. 

[Bryce Lynch]

6 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I'm not predicting it won't be uncovered. It certainly wouldn't be unreasonable for it to be. What I'm saying is that this is a nothing case for an Assistant D.A. with a massive caseload. From a time nanagement perspective it makes no sense for her to spend much energy to give Huell substantial prison time for an offense that a perp with no previous history of violence would normally be subjected to. Frankly , when Kim showed up with 3 four hundred dollar an hour associates, it would have been believable for the assistant D.A. to cut a deal for time served right then. The city doesn't want to have a trial for a defendent with a high powered legal team, on a nothing case.  The prosecutor has a bug up her butt on this case though,  for some reason, so she was willing to proceed. Once the judge told her he wasn't interested in a circus trial, however, she came to her senses on how to spend her time. Might she get that bug ip her butt again, and uncover Kim's con job? Sure. Then again, she might look at her caseload, concerning seriously violent crimes, and forget about Huell and his bag full of sandwiches.

I totally agree that the original case against Huell was not worth spending too much time on, and that the ADA might have folded just from seeing the team of 4 high priced lawyers and the ton of paperwork, and given a little or no jail time deal.  

But, it is possible that all the letters have put the bug even further up her butt and she will investigate further, which would almost certainly lead to her uncovering the scam.

I do think the feeling the writers gave at the end was that Jimmy and Kim got away with it, and that it will lead to Kim getting into scam artistry and being a criminal lawyer.   But, that could also be misdirection.   

Maybe Kim gets disbarred, over this, and becomes the money laundering wing of Saul Goodman & Associates.  She came up with Ice Station Zebra Associates which Saul claims is his "loan out, for tax purposes" in BB.  She also now has an excellent knowledge of banking law, which could be helpful. Finally, as someone on reddit pointed about, the name Wexler comes from the German word for "money changer".  

[Bannon]

10 minutes ago, sempervivum said:

I don't want to beat this topic to death, but why didn't Huell just ask for a trial? I can't believe 12 reasonable people wouldn't have acquitted him- he's acting as security for Jimmy following a robbery, sees what he thinks is another assault on his boss, and hits the guy with a soft bag of sandwiches? Even though he has a minor record, what jury will throw the book at him?

Kim is actually sexually aroused by Jimmy's con (the passionate embrace in the court stairway). If I were Jimmy, it would seem obvious that respectability is not the way to keep her interest. 

I don't think the cop ever touched Jimmy, and it isn't legal to hit somebody in the head because they are arguing with your boss, even if your boss has been previously mugged. Might a jury find Huell's action reasonable, and acquit him? Sure. Juries usually don't extend people like Huell the benefit of the doubt, however, in a conflict with a police officer, and if a jury finds you guilty  the prison time (sentencing would a judge's decision) can get really ugly. Trials are very risky things, which why prosecutors and defendants alike tend to avoid them.

[LittleIggy]

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Oh no! LOL.  Someone's going to try to donate.

Yes, Kim loves Slippin-Jimmy and being Giselle more than I thought.  Jimmy's Cajun accent sounded just like Adam Sandler to me, but I don't know any Cajun's so maybe that's how they sound.

 

No, they don’t. His accent was atrocious! 

[Bannon]

I'm wondering if we are going to get some backstory, at this somewhat late date, which provides some insight as to how Kim developed her self destructive streak. I don't think the mundane drudgery of banking expansion would by itself push her to these extremes.

[LittleIggy]

1 hour ago, Ohwell said:

I grew up in a Baptist church and we called it "communion."  Granted, it wasn't in the south so maybe it's different there. 

In Southern Baptist churches, it is definitely “Lord’s Supper”- broken saltines and grape juice. I’m Episcopalian now but grew up being hauled to SB churches.

[Bryce Lynch]

6 minutes ago, LittleIggy said:

In Southern Baptist churches, it is definitely “Lord’s Supper”- broken saltines and grape juice. I’m Episcopalian now but grew up being hauled to SB churches.

I grew up Roman Catholic, but  have attended various Evangelical  denominations as an adult  and it has been officially called Lord's Supper, but sometimes referred to communion, so I don't think that was a big flub.  In the churches I have attended, we've used broken pieces of matzo and grape juice in tiny plastic cups...just like at the Last Supper. :)

Edited September 25, 2018 by Bryce Lynch

[Bannon]

It could be these writers just doing their normal  great job of not wasting any character, but they sure have spent a lot of time making Werner a real human being, which may suggest that his outcome may be a source of conflict for Mike and Gus. 

Lalo's likely gotta eventually go to Belize, without JimmySaul's knowledge, so that's interesting as well.

[Tighthead]

Joining in late so I’ll make a bunch kid unconnected and probably lame observations:

I’ve been wondering about Saul’s backstory of two ex wives. I think the first possibility is we learn he had a hiccup starter marriage, ie married at 20 split at 22 and Kim is the second, or as suggested above it’s just Saul making himself more colourful. I almost see the latter as more likely. 

I found the whole Huell con hard to take in several episodes. For me, it’s the weakest the show has ever been. Firstly, I don’t get Jimmy and especially Kim’s motivation to go to the mat for him. 

Even though Kim is a partner now, she can’t just piss away her time and the time of a battery of associates on a vanity case. The fact is that once you make partner, your obligations to the firm increase. You have to be productive and profitable and make associates that way as well. 

Furthermore, Huell was a pickpocket, not a violent criminal prior to this case. If he explained what he did and threw himself at the mercy of the court, he would likely get a soft sentence. It would take a lot less work and a lot less risk and subterfuge.  The letters etc. all seemed to lay it on way too thick.  If Huell is a local hero in Louisiana why is he picking pockets and selling burner phones in ABQ?   

The ADA was a little too stuck in, but I do agree that the con may be too much for her not to ignore. It all seems wildly elaborate, expensive and vulnerable. Maybe the judge didn’t want the publicity, but what if the DA wants to be seen as tough on crime or pro law enforcement, or the ADA has ambitions of being DA? 

I just found it all to be overcooked. 

As for the Germans, I still don’t think they will get killed. I agree with some that the plot is getting a little weary, but maybe it will pay off. 

I’m really missing Howard and Charles right now. I’ve always loved this show, but right now I’m at my lowest point of interest. 

[Bryce Lynch]

3 minutes ago, Bannon said:

It could be these writers just doing their normal  great job of not wasting any character, but they sure have spent a lot of time making Werner a real human being, which may suggest that his outcome may be a source of conflict for Mike and Gus. 

Lalo's likely gotta eventually go to Belize, without JimmySaul's knowledge, so that's interesting as well.

Could Lalo have been killed offscreen during Fring's war with the cartel, when the cartel was attacking Fring's trucks?  Or could he be in prison?  Maybe Saul thought Lalo was sending people to kill him for ratting on him and getting him put away, when it was really Nacho (or both, or really Saul, and he was lying).  

[Tighthead]

17 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I'm wondering if we are going to get some backstory, at this somewhat late date, which provides some insight as to how Kim developed her self destructive streak. I don't think the mundane drudgery of banking expansion would by itself push her to these extremes.

 

I was thinking the same thing. Kim has to have some grifting or something in her background. 

[Bryce Lynch]

Just now, Tighthead said:

 

I was thinking the same thing. Kim has to have some grifting or something in her background. 

Kim was evasive and vague about where she came from in her S&C interview, which suggests she has things in her past she does not want known.

[TVFan17]

8 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I think Jimmy was surprised too, based on Jimmy's remark to Mrs. Nguyen about Jimmy thinking that he and Kim were beyond making up over dinner and flowers.

 

 

Not entirely. With the banking crisis of 2008 about to break bad across the country, she would not have been better off financially no matter how you slice it.

 

 

Heh. Loved that line.

 

It's interesting that Kai, the trouble maker was easier to clean up after than the lonely Ziegler.

 

What sort of legal fallout could Munsinger generate after Kim and the prosecutor have reached a deal if Munsinger—who clearly recognized the Miricle on 34th Strreet parallel—should wake up at 3am and realize that he had given Kim the idea of using a well known movie as a metaphor to make a point with his own use of a Grisham book movie?

 

 

Nacho does not miss the literal meaning of Lalo's figurative expression "you're gonna die" when Nacho refuses the food and also when he considers the Canadian IDs for his father and himself—so maybe Nacho is just out of the country in Breaking Bad. Maybe Kim is in Canada too. Maybe just as Belize was a euphemism for the grave in BrBa, Canada is where all living characters go from BCS if they are never to be seen on screen again but are not dead.

 

I definitely think they were showing us those Canadian IDs for a reason.    He is thinking about trying to escape and get out of the whole cartel life.    At some point, when Lalo  becomes an insurmountable problem for Nacho, Nacho will probably try to scoop up his dad and escape (possibly even with the help of the Disappearer).   Whether or not they both make it out alive -- or even one of them makes it out alive-- is anyone's guess.  But I think that Nacho is definitely trying to think about how to get himself and his dad to safety in a pinch.   He may not act quickly enough, and either he or his dad could end up dead before anyone goes to Canada or wherever.

 

4 hours ago, rehoboth said:

As far as Jimmy being married twice, I don't take that as gospel because Saul lied all the time.  We see him making up stories left and right to get out of tight situations or to try and find "common ground" with someone whose good side he wants to be on.  (Also, I dimly remember him complaining about one ex-wife sleeping with his father (?) and his father has been dead for some time and didn't seem like the type of man to do something like that.  Does anyone else recall something like that?)

Spoiler

Stepdad.  He said he caught one of the wives with his stepdad.     I have no clue if Saul was lying or not, but let's assume that he was not lying for the moment.   Were both wives in the pre-Better Call Saul days?  That's what I am not 100% clear on.   Or was one wife pre-Better Call Saul and another wife will be pre-BB?   Or were there more than 2 wives, and 2 were pre-BCS with #3 being pre-BB?  lol   

The easy thing to do would be to just chalk it all up to a lie on Saul's part when he made the comment to Walt or whoever it was.  I am not yet entirely convinced that he was lying, though.  I am just confused about when the supposed marriages would have occurred within the BCS-BB universe., if they actually occurred.

 

[Bannon]

6 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Could Lalo have been killed offscreen during Fring's war with the cartel, when the cartel was attacking Fring's trucks?  Or could he be in prison?  Maybe Saul thought Lalo was sending people to kill him for ratting on him and getting him put away, when it was really Nacho (or both, or really Saul, and he was lying).  

Could be many things, but I don't think Lalo's fate will be hidden from us.

[Bryce Lynch]

3 minutes ago, Tighthead said:

I’ve been wondering about Saul’s backstory of two ex wives. I think the first possibility is we learn he had a hiccup starter marriage, ie married at 20 split at 22 and Kim is the second, or as suggested above it’s just Saul making himself more colourful. I almost see the latter as more likely. 

I found the whole Huell con hard to take in several episodes. For me, it’s the weakest the show has ever been. Firstly, I don’t get Jimmy and especially Kim’s motivation to go to the mat for him.

I'd be shocked if Kim is the 2nd wife who slept with his stepdad.  I think either Saul made the story up or he had 2 ex-wives back in Cicero.  

Jimmy likes Huell and feels responsible for his situation.  But, perhaps more importantly, Huell knows about his kidnapping of Peewee, Skippy and Scooter.  Kim originally did it reluctantly, as a favor for Jimmy.  Then, she believed Huell was being overcharged and once she came up the scam, the con artist in her took over.   

4 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Could be many things, but I don't think Lalo's fate will be hidden from us.

Yes, I think we will find out what happens to Lalo. Prison might make the most sense, as it would give him reason to seek revenge against Saul and Nacho and have him still alive, but not in the picture in BB.   

[Bannon]

9 minutes ago, Tighthead said:

Joining in late so I’ll make a bunch kid unconnected and probably lame observations:

I’ve been wondering about Saul’s backstory of two ex wives. I think the first possibility is we learn he had a hiccup starter marriage, ie married at 20 split at 22 and Kim is the second, or as suggested above it’s just Saul making himself more colourful. I almost see the latter as more likely. 

I found the whole Huell con hard to take in several episodes. For me, it’s the weakest the show has ever been. Firstly, I don’t get Jimmy and especially Kim’s motivation to go to the mat for him. 

Even though Kim is a partner now, she can’t just piss away her time and the time of a battery of associates on a vanity case. The fact is that once you make partner, your obligations to the firm increase. You have to be productive and profitable and make associates that way as well. 

Furthermore, Huell was a pickpocket, not a violent criminal prior to this case. If he explained what he did and threw himself at the mercy of the court, he would likely get a soft sentence. It would take a lot less work and a lot less risk and subterfuge.  The letters etc. all seemed to lay it on way too thick.  If Huell is a local hero in Louisiana why is he picking pockets and selling burner phones in ABQ?   

The ADA was a little too stuck in, but I do agree that the con may be too much for her not to ignore. It all seems wildly elaborate, expensive and vulnerable. Maybe the judge didn’t want the publicity, but what if the DA wants to be seen as tough on crime or pro law enforcement, or the ADA has ambitions of being DA? 

I just found it all to be overcooked. 

As for the Germans, I still don’t think they will get killed. I agree with some that the plot is getting a little weary, but maybe it will pay off. 

I’m really missing Howard and Charles right now. I’ve always loved this show, but right now I’m at my lowest point of interest. 

I certainly hope Howard still has substantial time left with the audience, because he's quite interesting. I think his last scene, where Jimmy gives his blunt performance  review, suggests Howard will be back, in a big way.

[PeterPirate]

I think the "two wives" thing was intended to be the truth at the time it was written.  Just like when Saul told Walt that "he knew a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy" when referring to Gus, when in reality there was only one middleman (Mike), not two.  

[Bryce Lynch]

2 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

I think the "two wives" thing was intended to be the truth at the time it was written.  Just like when Saul told Walt that "he knew a guy who knows a guy who knows a guy" when referring to Gus, when in reality there was only one middleman (Mike), not two.  

Regarding the 2nd thing, it is possible that, at the time, Saul didn't know that Mike had a direct connection to Fring.  I think he might also have been trying to put more separation between himself and Fring in Walt and Jesse's minds, in case something went wrong.  

Assuming the story about his second wife sleeping with his stepdad was meant to be true at the time, I don't think the writers would allow that continuity error to stand.  They will probably back fill with a mention of 2 ex-wives back in Cicero.  

[monagatuna]

1 hour ago, Conan Troutman said:

I don't know why Gus let the Germans out in the first place. Werner had to wear a mug when Mike took him to the lab at first, why not do that for everyone? If they need company, Gus could've brought in  some prostitutes. I always assumed Gus had them built their own little bar near the lab, but apparently not. Maybe he wasn't quite that paranoid back then and we're seeing one of the reasons he'll become that way. 

Could you imagine being the prostitutes hired for such a prospect? They'd have to wear hoods, ride in the back of a windowless van for who knows how long, not know where they're going or who their client is. Terrifying. While the German workers had to go through the same thing, the additional layer of nuance for abduction, trafficking, and violence against sex workers would make this a "not for all the money in the world" prospect for some of even the most hardened working girls. I'm not disagreeing with you, but the whole idea of it makes me shudder.

Also, I'm pretty sure Werner mentioned they needed fresh air. Sex would only go so far--the guys needed to get out of that dungeon for a night.

I loved this episode. I'm terrified for Kim but I'm also dying to know exactly how her downfall will go. My guess is, if they don't get away with this little escapade, Kim will go down and not take Jimmy with her. Or Kim will start to burn things down on her own--Jimmy seems to know a little bit better when to stop, while Kim is careening out of control.

[benteen]

I can see Jimmy going to the mat for Huell for a lot of reasons.  Kin, no.  But Jimmy definitely.  The guy is an associate of his in his criminal activities and helped him out when Chuck tried to get him disbarred.

Edited September 25, 2018 by benteen

[PotterOtherP]

Mike and Gus seemed to have a really good relationship in Breaking Bad. I don't think that would be the case if Mike knew that Gus would liquidate large portions of his workforce once they've fulfilled their purpose. It's much more likely that Mike would be plotting an exit for himself and his family, not content to remain employed with Gus for the long term.

[Tighthead]

9 minutes ago, PotterOtherP said:

Mike and Gus seemed to have a really good relationship in Breaking Bad. I don't think that would be the case if Mike knew that Gus would liquidate large portions of his workforce once they've fulfilled their purpose. It's much more likely that Mike would be plotting an exit for himself and his family, not content to remain employed with Gus for the long term.

Killing the Germans would seem like going against the “honour amongst thieves” ethos. 

Of course, Gus may go by his own code, and I wouldn’t be shocked if one of them gets sent to Belize. 

[PeterPirate]

Mike would have to view Werner and the Germans as "his guys" in order to step in on their behalf.   

Gus could simply arrange to send them back to Berlin and have a new team come in.  Mike would never know what happened to them after they left New Mexico.   Berlin could be "Berlin" for all he cares.  

For that matter, Lydia could get rid of them with neither Gus nor Mike being aware of it.  

Edited September 25, 2018 by PeterPirate

[nodorothyparker]

I love this episode even as it makes me more curious than ever about what exactly is in Kim's background.  Assuming as I usually do unless a show specifically tells me otherwise that an actor and their character are roughly the same age, she wasn't some fresh-faced young law student that HHM happened to snap up to work its mailroom.  She had a life and a past she's been loathe to talk about, and for someone who's mostly lived in this timeline at least strictly within the lines as the girl doing everything right, there's something about the con and Jimmy too that's damn near irresistible to her.  I'm actually really marveling at the writing for Kim this season, along with Rhea Seehorn's portrayal.  She's played the entire Huell caper so stiff-upper lipped that she had us as viewers and Jimmy too all but convinced that she was just done, only to finally reveal by the end that that's her game face to power through what had to be done.  Along the way she's had us, as well as Chuck and Howard, worried that Jimmy would "ruin" her.  He would be the one to bring her down.  Yet as we've seen, Jimmy is the more passive partner just happy to have her at all and barely able to voice that she's not his wife, while Kim is the instigator, both sexually and in the Miracle on 34th Street letter writing blitz.  She's the one wanting to pull another con at the end of the episode when he's dutifully promising it's all straightening up and flying right from here on out.  I never would have expected that given what we saw of Saul on BB, so kudos for continually surprising me, show.

The con worked precisely because it was so ridiculously over the top beyond any sense of proportion for what they were trying to accomplish.  Who would ever seriously predict anyone taking what Google says is a near 900-mile bus ride to the middle of nowhere just to mail some letters to knock down the sentence of a pickpocket?   Set up a fake church/donation webpage in the days when people were more likely to take what they saw online at face value?  Set up a war room of multiple people manning multiple phones to assume the personas of multiple characters?  The ADA might have her suspicions, but it checked out enough that with the judge ordering her to resolve it before it turns into a circus, it's probably not worth any more time pursuing when she's got plenty of other cases to worry about.

I barely care about all the logistics of the building of the superlab anyway, but the whole strip club escapade felt poorly thought out.  Especially when characters as methodical as Gus and Mike are involved.  Still, after eight months of seeing only each other and working mostly underground, it's not hard to see how what happened with Werner happened.  Sometimes it's just nice to sit and talk with new people and before you know it, you've ended up sketching out plans for your super secret underground lab for a guy who hired you only after hours of driving around with a bag over your head.  Still, it gave us the nice character beats of Mike realizing too late that it was Werner, the guy he's been befriending, being the real problem rather than Kai, the one he'd anticipated, and Werner's rueful observation that the Sydney Opera House was his father's lasting achievement with his likely being a drug lab that will only last a couple of years going unsaid.

[Bannon]

15 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I love this episode even as it makes me more curious than ever about what exactly is in Kim's background.  Assuming as I usually do unless a show specifically tells me otherwise that an actor and their character are roughly the same age, she wasn't some fresh-faced young law student that HHM happened to snap up to work its mailroom.  She had a life and a past she's been loathe to talk about, and for someone who's mostly lived in this timeline at least strictly within the lines as the girl doing everything right, there's something about the con and Jimmy too that's damn near irresistible to her.  I'm actually really marveling at the writing for Kim this season, along with Rhea Seehorn's portrayal.  She's played the entire Huell caper so stiff-upper lipped that she had us as viewers and Jimmy too all but convinced that she was just done, only to finally reveal by the end that that's her game face to power through what had to be done.  Along the way she's had us, as well as Chuck and Howard, worried that Jimmy would "ruin" her.  He would be the one to bring her down.  Yet as we've seen, Jimmy is the more passive partner just happy to have her at all and barely able to voice that she's not his wife, while Kim is the instigator, both sexually and in the Miracle on 34th Street letter writing blitz.  She's the one wanting to pull another con at the end of the episode when he's dutifully promising it's all straightening up and flying right from here on out.  I never would have expected that given what we saw of Saul on BB, so kudos for continually surprising me, show.

The con worked precisely because it was so ridiculously over the top beyond any sense of proportion for what they were trying to accomplish.  Who would ever seriously predict anyone taking what Google says is a near 900-mile bus ride to the middle of nowhere just mail some letters to knock down the sentence of a pickpocket?   Set up a fake church/donation webpage in the days when people were more likely to take what they saw online at face value?  Set up a war room of multiple people manning multiple phones to assume the personas of multiple characters?  The ADA might have her suspicions, but it checked out enough that with the judge ordering her to resolve it before it turns into a circus, it's probably not worth any more time pursuing when she's got plenty of other cases to worry about.

I barely care about all the logistics of the building of the superlab anyway, but the whole strip club escapade felt poorly thought out.  Especially when characters as methodical as Gus and Mike are involved.  Still, after eight months of seeing only each other and working mostly underground, it's not hard to see how what happened with Werner happened.  Sometimes it's just nice to sit and talk with new people and before you know it, you've ended up sketching out plans for your super secret underground lab for a guy who hired you only after hours of driving around with a bag over your head.  Still, it gave us the nice character beats of Mike realizing too late that it was Werner, the guy he's been befriending, being the real problem rather than Kai, the one he'd anticipated, and Werner's rueful observation that the Sydney Opera House was his father's lasting achievement with his likely being a drug lab that will only last a couple of years going unsaid.

Well, we don't even know if Mike suggested a strip club. It may be the case  that he thought getting them out of a cave for a few hours might have a positive effect on work performance, without falling further behind on work, and when he asked where they wanted to go, the young guys said they wanted to look at naked women. As you note, the irony lied in Werner being the problem, at a normal tavern. People can be extremely methodical, and still take risks they would otherwise avoid, when months behind schedule on a critical project. Gus needs to get that lab producing before the Salamancas get their footing back. Lalo appearing is bad for Gus as well as Nacho.

Edited September 25, 2018 by Bannon

[nodorothyparker]

7 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Well, we don't even know if Mike suggested a strip club. It may be the case  that he thought getting them out of a cave for a few hours might have a positive effect on work performance, without falling further behind on work, and when he asked where they wanted to go, the young guys said they wanted to look at naked women. As you note, the irony lied in Werner being the problem, at a normal tavern. People can be extremely methodical, and still take risks they would otherwise avoid, when months behind schedule on a critical project. Gus needs to get that lab producing before the Salamancas get their footing back. Lalo appearing is bad for Gus as well as Nacho.

Werner's suggestion that they needed some "R&R" when their project is already months into overrun with months more to go made all the sense in the world from a morale standpoint.  Because by now all of these guys have to be sick of only seeing each other, which almost certainly has to be breeding some level of discontent.  And sure, even the most methodical people occasionally slip up, especially in weighing two competing interests like being extremely careful vs. not letting your crew completely crack up and have to start over, creating new problems.  The writing itself, along with the characters going along with it, still feels sloppy though.  Are they just conceding to everyone involved that they're in Albuquerque?  Did they drive them around half the night to disorient them?  Is this it for their much anticipated R&R before going back to months more burrowing underground?

The thing about my asking any of this is that I don't even really care all that much.  I'm much more interested in Kim and Jimmy and to a lesser extent to poor Nacho and yet another Salamanca showing up.  But the strip club adventure felt poorly thought out in comparison to the point that it does have me asking.

[chick binewski]

4 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Saul assumes it is the carter, and yells in Spanish that he has always be a friend of the cartel and says, "No, it wasn't me, it was Ignacio (aka Nacho)"   When Jesse told him to shut up and just speak English, he asks, "Lalo didn't send you? No Lalo? - Who? - Oh, thank God! Oh, Christ! Oh, I thought What can I do for you gentlemen? "

So Saul, thought Lalo had a reason or thought he had a reason to kill him and he tried to blame whatever that was on Nacho.  

Since the start of BCS I've been so curious how the timeline will connect itself to BB. Now I'm focused on Lalo being a big piece of that puzzle. Right now I'm thinking someone (Fring, indirectly) discloses Hector's pills were switched for the purpose of removing Nacho. But the writers are a lot more clever than me so I can't wait to see how it all unfolds.

 

2 hours ago, Bannon said:

I'm wondering if we are going to get some backstory, at this somewhat late date, which provides some insight as to how Kim developed her self destructive streak. I don't think the mundane drudgery of banking expansion would by itself push her to these extremes.

Since the Hinky Dinky story I've been impatiently waiting for the Wexler-centric backstory episode(s). Gilligan has said she's the character who would get a spin-off of the spin-off (which is both great bc Rhea! but terrible bc I don't wanna wait that long).

As a few have already pointed out, Kim is always the one to make a physical overture with Saul. Yet she becomes removed & witholding after suspecting/discovering Saul's bad behaviors. I think there's a lot of dark & deep in there.

And yeah Jimmy became Saul to me after the way he handled Kim last week. Even though she herself could have possibly killed her whole family. Or something. I'm spitballing here.

[Bannon]

15 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

Werner's suggestion that they needed some "R&R" when their project is already months into overrun with months more to go made all the sense in the world from a morale standpoint.  Because by now all of these guys have to be sick of only seeing each other, which almost certainly has to be breeding some level of discontent.  And sure, even the most methodical people occasionally slip up, especially in weighing two competing interests like being extremely careful vs. not letting your crew completely crack up and have to start over, creating new problems.  The writing itself, along with the characters going along with it, still feels sloppy though.  Are they just conceding to everyone involved that they're in Albuquerque?  Did they drive them around half the night to disorient them?  Is this it for their much anticipated R&R before going back to months more burrowing underground?

The thing about my asking any of this is that I don't even really care all that much.  I'm much more interested in Kim and Jimmy and to a lesser extent to poor Nacho and yet another Salamanca showing up.  But the strip club adventure felt poorly thought out in comparison to the point that it does have me asking.

Yeah, the writing was not as methodical as it usually is.

[meira.hand]

Several posts here assumed that the German workers will be killed. I think this does not make sense for several reasons. The whole idea of bringing in construction workers from Germany is that they have no connections in the US, and after they return home do not pose a risk of discovery. Also they are not professional criminals and so if they do not return after a lucrative project abroad, their families would not have kept quiet which may trigger an international inquiry. On top of that Gas knows that Mike is an ex-cop with a fairly clear sense of personal ethics, that will allow him to ignore the killings within the criminal underworld but not of innocent civilians that are here to do construction work that is very secret and may not be legal but that they are not responsible for. 

[Eulipian 5k]

Mike got an inkling of Werner's condition when he corrected the other customer on the name of the German beer; his cover was exposed then. But Mike still  left him alone to check on the guys.

 

Trying to understand Kim-sele, she has probably gone up against the ADA many, many times , and always by the book. She never saw Jimmy in action running this con. All she knows is the thrill she got seeing the ADA squirming with the judge. She also appreciates that Jimmy's influence made her come up with this totally enjoyable scam. So the idea that she and her "scum bag ex=lawyer" put the ADA in a vise really warmed her loins. Especially compared to the cold fish Mesa Verde has become.

[MisterBluxom]

I've watched this episode twice now and I'm puzzled by so many people having posted their opinions that this was a great episode. I don't understand that at all.

I must admit that I found it kind of thrilling when Kim told Jimmy she wanted to do it again. I've been following along this entire show AWA Breaking Bad and the central theme to this show has always seemed to me to be the issue involving Jimmy and Kim and how this tragedy was about to overtake them and I thought that was what the rest of this show would be about. 

But, Oh boy! Was I ever wrong about that.

I must admit that I always considered Kim and Jimmy to be bound for a terrible tragedy together because she could and would never sacrifice all of her huge investment in her life (in becoming a lawyer to honor the law and the legal profession). She would never throw that away for some tawdry, foolish thrills to live like Jimmy lives. It seemed to me that she clearly understood they could never have any future together because Jimmy just could not resist living the life of a "Bad Boy". Not that Jimmy wanted to be "Bad Boy". He would have happily given up that kind of lifestyle in order to live the rest of his life loving Kim. But whenever Jimmy was faced with a serious problem, he could never resist taking the easy way out - never resist the solution that was bound to get him into terrible trouble one day. The solution that was bound to send him to prison and cause  him to lose his right to practice law. Kim felt helpless to make  him see things her way - and yet ... and yet ... well ... I don't think I need to say anything more.  No matter how this season ends, it's bound to be a fabulous and extremely entertaining journey.

This post is now in danger of becoming far too long. I will try to summarize the rest of this post into the first line or two of the following spoiler box. But I'm afraid that I have a fatal flaw - just like Jimmy. Except my fatal flaw is that I just can't help myself.  I just can't keep my mouth shut  ......  I'm truly very sorry about that. OK. Here we go:

 

OK. Here is  the rest of my post in a spoiler box.  I'm so sorry. But I feel the need to summarize the rest of my post in this spoiler box out of respect for everyone who has decided to keep on following what I have to say. I feel all boxed in here and I don't feel like my heart is still in this thread any longer. Oh, Boo Fucking Hoo! Shit. Please Let me out? I want out.

I'm thinking the rest of this show (not just this season - but all the remaining seasons - will operate as follows: The minute the ratings make it appear like following season will be the last one, that will signal the producers and they will then signal the writers and director that season will be the last season. That will then become the season in which Jimmy & Kim are caught doing something horrible  and extremely illegal - although increibly moral and heroic.  But on the other hand - just like so many of Jimmy's previous schtick, it will be the wrong thing to do but it will be done for the right reasons. It will be something heroic - something that will endear them to everyone who knows the truth as to what is going on.

The rest of this post contain my predictions about the rest of this show and those of you who have gotten to know me a little bit will know that I am almost always wrong when it comes to making predictions. But I see Jimmy & Kim & Mike somehow getting involved with some poor downtrodden individual - a perfect example of a "schnook", if you will - possibly with a family and possibly someone whose life seems to have many matching characteristics with one or more of Jimmy's, Kim's and/or Mike's life. JKAM will then risk their lives and lifestyles and careers to help this person. But by the end of the show they will have been caught and stripped of the right to work at their chosen profession. Jimmy & Kim will no longer be able to work as lawyers. Mike will have some major unhappiness  thrust onto his relationship with his daughter-in-law and neice.  They may all wind up in prison or under some tight control of the prison system. But, for the most part, the viewers will love them dearly because they will have helped some poor "schnook(s)" escape the clutches of a stupid and unfair legal system including all of its courts and judges and cops and robbers and everything that goes along with all of that. The "schnook" will win when it comes to their important issues.  I really and truly hope that I'm wrong about all of this ... because ... that is the only way this show will not end on such a boring and predictable note for me.  But, if I'm right, even though Jimmy, Kim & Mike will engage in some incredibly heroic scheme, they will lose when it comes to the major consensus of what it takes for adults to be "happy" in Los Angeles" in 20xx. Fill in the blanks for yourself. I'm too busy crying.   Boo Hoo and Whoo Whoo! *sniffles*

 

Edited September 25, 2018 by MissBluxom