Spoilers and Speculation

[Pete Martell]

I don't see any reason why Judith has to die. This isn't a realistic show - it's a show about zombies. Realistically, there's no way most of the characters should be alive. The show is already hopeless enough without killing Judith. She's the hope for the future. 

[The Mighty Peanut]

Damn, I hate the slowly devoured alive walker kills. First Buttons, now Noah. I hope someone puts him down...walker Noah would be too sad. Aidan however can fuck off, he seems extremely satisfied with his legacy of the one push up he did during ROTC. I hope he dies because he didn't listen to Glenn.

[Ocean Chick]

If they mean to keep the group in Alexandria for any length of time, I see no problem with keeping Judith alive.  Once Rick and CDB get the place buttoned down and safe, Judith can live and grow in safety (and probably hardly ever to be seen on TV).  It's only when they are on the road that a baby is problematic.  Soon enough we'll see her starting her first day of Garage School.

[The Mighty Peanut]

If they mean to keep the group in Alexandria for any length of time, I see no problem with keeping Judith alive.  Once Rick and CDB get the place buttoned down and safe, Judith can live and grow in safety (and probably hardly ever to be seen on TV).  It's only when they are on the road that a baby is problematic.  Soon enough we'll see her starting her first day of Garage School.

Let's just say secured! Buttons are now cursed.

[The Mighty Peanut]

Sorry, double post

Edited March 12, 2015 by The Mighty Peanut

[kj4ever]

If they mean to keep the group in Alexandria for any length of time, I see no problem with keeping Judith alive.  Once Rick and CDB get the place buttoned down and safe, Judith can live and grow in safety (and probably hardly ever to be seen on TV).  It's only when they are on the road that a baby is problematic.  Soon enough we'll see her starting her first day of Garage School.

As someone who wished for Carl's death over and over I can't stand the thought of them killing Judith.  I think you're right, they won't need to show her much once Alexandria is somewhat secured. It's not like she's going to be Rudy from The Cosby Show.  They can get away with not showing her much.

[Nutjob]

I also don't think they'll have Judith die as long as the group is in the ASZ. Even if there is a walker invasion (or the Saviors, or whatever the wolves are), someone can be designated as the one to make sure they get Judith to some sort of safe place. If they didn't kill her when the prison went down, then I think she's going to hang around for a while.

 

I also don't think Negan is coming up just yet. I'm also leaning toward them giving that death to Daryl when it finally does come, though--what would be more of a gut punch to the audience than that? As it was, I had to put the comics down for several weeks after reading that part because it upset me so badly.

 

I'm also thinking that Noah will die because of something risky Aidan does.

[Nashville]

This is the thread I can say it in. It must be said.

Judith has to die soon.

 

I don't want this, but it has to happen.

 

 

The baby is not only not growing, she is possibly getting smaller.

They can't do this show with a toddler, babbling and walking and shrieking and the tipping point is now. This is about how long they can continue to pretend this kid can remain in infancy...especially with Carl shooting up like a sunflower.Unless they do a Bewitched where Tabitha goes from a baby to talking to kindergarten and skips everything in between.

Get your kleenex ready. This will be a Very Special Episode,  It Was The Acorns That Done It.

 

Of course, there's only one way for a child to die in these times:

 

"Just look at the acorns, Judith...."

[GreyBunny]

If they were going to stay on the road than toddler Judith would need to snuff it.  But since they're going to be at the ASZ for presumably a long time Judith can hang out with the grandparents or that crazy lady that can't stop talking about a pasta maker.

 

Tara and her leg - no kidding!  She and Eric can start a support group or become champion three-legged-racers.

Edited March 13, 2015 by GreyBunny

[kikismom]

I'd reckon that Judith has to be one of the most hotly-debated topics in the writing room.  What a shit-storm if they let her die! But it'll be the only way to deal with so many other problems. (And when I say "deal with" I don't mean that in such a ruthless way as it sounds.)

 

I thought it sounded more ruthless to say "it's the only way". Beware of future episode titles "Little Ass-Kicker: The Final Solution".

I don't see any reason why Judith has to die. This isn't a realistic show - it's a show about zombies. Realistically, there's no way most of the characters should be alive. The show is already hopeless enough without killing Judith. She's the hope for the future. 

But we have people say it's not realistic for someone to even hold Judith at this point, or for Rick to go Full Shane, or for any beer to be left after this long.

I agree though, it's a show about the Zombie Apocalypse, anything can happen and should. Except dinosaurs.

 

If they mean to keep the group in Alexandria for any length of time, I see no problem with keeping Judith alive.  Once Rick and CDB get the place buttoned down and safe, Judith can live and grow in safety (and probably hardly ever to be seen on TV).  It's only when they are on the road that a baby is problematic.  Soon enough we'll see her starting her first day of Garage School.

 

 

As someone who wished for Carl's death over and over I can't stand the thought of them killing Judith.  I think you're right, they won't need to show her much once Alexandria is somewhat secured. It's not like she's going to be Rudy from The Cosby Show.  They can get away with not showing her much.

 

To me it isn't just the baby not aging (although that is becoming an object of memes)

 

As long as she's there, we'll have too much of the Season 2 comments.

(How can this baby have a parent who hasn't paid any attention for 8 hours? Why doesn't Rick spend any time with his kid?)

If she stays in infancy, they'll have to keep writing Then Rick pops his head in the door to look in on Judith  in every script.

 

Or face a backlash from viewers Don't take us down that road again! "Can you watch Judith? Can you take Judith in the house? Has anyone seen Judith?"

 

My problem with the Rudy Huxtable analogy is that The Cosby Show was a half-hour sitcom, taking place in a nice world. Viewers will be more worried about an invisible child on an hour long drama about a violent suspicious world.

 

As I said, I don't want it to happen. But once you have a baby or a pet dog in the show, you are chained to making weekly explanations. This show can barely let viewers know if all the adults are still there.

Jeez, the internet is buzzing with questions about what's happened to the unseen Father PP--and people don't even like him!

[The Mighty Peanut]

I think Judith is young enough to recast if age becomes a factor. Thankfully in real life she is not the last adorable baby on earth. I don't mind the unlikelihood of her survival. I like the idea of her as a symbol of hope for the future...of cup games!

Edited March 13, 2015 by The Mighty Peanut

[JackONeill]

See, I have a different take. I think Judith was learning how to run that con job where you put a pea under one of three cups, then the person watching has to bet on which one it is. Of course, the con man, or in his case, the con baby, has it hidden in their hand the whole time.

 

No doubt, Daryl taught her.

[Nashville]

I don't see any reason why Judith has to die. This isn't a realistic show - it's a show about zombies. Realistically, there's no way most of the characters should be alive. The show is already hopeless enough without killing Judith. She's the hope for the future.

I'm sorry - but If humanity is to survive, Judith MUST die.

Judith is a carrier of the Lori gene, and the remaining scientists of the world have already confirmed this gene as the single biggest threat to life as we know it.

Through no fault of her own, Judith is the bane of the future - not the hope for it.

[Pete Martell]

Or face a backlash from viewers Don't take us down that road again! "Can you watch Judith? Can you take Judith in the house? Has anyone seen Judith?"

 

There's always going to be a backlash over something. There will be backlash over spending too much time in Alexandria. It's the farm again oh noes!1111!11 Yet there was backlash when they were on the road too long.

 

They've already done endless shock value deaths to try to manipulate tears out of us. I think Judith dying at this point would feel too much like that, and alienate viewers far more than a few quick lines about her being somewhere offcamera.

[Bongo Fury]

I'm sorry - but If humanity is to survive, Judith MUST die.

 

Good call.

 

Unfortunately this is bad news for Coral.

[kikismom]

I'm sorry - but If humanity is to survive, Judith MUST die.

Judith is a carrier of the Lori gene

Can you imagine when she starts to talk?!?!

 

"Daddy you brought me applesauce, my favorite! You sonovabitch can't you do anything right? I know you'll be there for me, to put my sweater on if it's chilly, I trust you to think of that, what the hell is wrong with you? Are you some kind of monster? Don't touch me ever again!"

[editorgrrl]

I'm sorry - but If humanity is to survive, Judith MUST die.

Judith is a carrier of the Lori gene, and the remaining scientists of the world have already confirmed this gene as the single biggest threat to life as we know it.

Through no fault of her own, Judith is the bane of the future - not the hope for it.

 

But Carl's a carrier of the Lori gene, too.

 

Back on topic: supposed outline of "Spend" credited to someone named "Daryl’s Possum."

[kikismom]

 

Back on topic: supposed outline of "Spend" credited to someone named "Daryl’s Possum."

Thank you! Sounds like a terrific episode (if the outline is true).

I can also see a lot of people needing to be murdered. :-)

[truelovekiss]

See, I have a different take. I think Judith was learning how to run that con job where you put a pea under one of three cups, then the person watching has to bet on which one it is. Of course, the con man, or in his case, the con baby, has it hidden in their hand the whole time.

No doubt, Daryl taught her.

I love this theory. This is how Judith will make her living in the new world order, and provide for her CDB family. She'll hustle for all of the stuff and thangs they need.

[Pete Martell]

I don't understand why Gabriel would have gone back to proclaiming that the group is terrible and full of demons. I realize we haven't exactly been in his head all that much, but I thought he'd turned a corner on that toward the time of "Coda."

 

The writing for this character is just awful and if the spoiler pans out that way I can't defend the writing for him anymore.

 

At least this episode sounds like it has a lot for some of the supporting characters (minus Rosita), although I notice that Abraham is still oddly isolated from everything outside of his own drama. I tend to wonder if they have any idea what to do with him or how much longer he'll be around.

[kj4ever]

I'm sorry - but If humanity is to survive, Judith MUST die.

Judith is a carrier of the Lori gene, and the remaining scientists of the world have already confirmed this gene as the single biggest threat to life as we know it.

Through no fault of her own, Judith is the bane of the future - not the hope for it.

It's recessive and since there is no other person with the Lori gene we are safe!

[Nashville]

It's recessive and since there is no other person with the Lori gene we are safe!

 

So long as no one ever gives Carl or Judith a copy of Flowers In the Attic, anyway....

[kj4ever]

So long as no one ever gives Carl or Judith a copy of Flowers In the Attic, anyway....

eww

[kikismom]

I don't understand why Gabriel would have gone back to proclaiming that the group is terrible and full of demons. I realize we haven't exactly been in his head all that much, but I thought he'd turned a corner on that toward the time of "Coda."

 

The writing for this character is just awful and if the spoiler pans out that way I can't defend the writing for him anymore.

 

At least this episode sounds like it has a lot for some of the supporting characters (minus Rosita), although I notice that Abraham is still oddly isolated from everything outside of his own drama. I tend to wonder if they have any idea what to do with him or how much longer he'll be around.

Because CDB knows the truth about him?

Because they've been there too briefly to tell everything that happens, but how long before somebody mentions it to ASZ?

Because the last real conversation anybody from CDB had with him was Maggie saying he didn't know shit and he was supposed to lead and protect his flock but he screwed them over so things weren't good, and if CDB takes over this camp he won't get a chance?

[kj4ever]

http://highlighthollywood.com/2015/03/the-walking-deads-spend-sunday-nights-filled-with-blood-and-death-hits-alexandria-preview-highlight-hollywood-news/

 

Man I can't wait until tomorrow night!!!

Because CDB knows the truth about him?

Because they've been there too briefly to tell everything that happens, but how long before somebody mentions it to ASZ?

Because the last real conversation anybody from CDB had with him was Maggie saying he didn't know shit and he was supposed to lead and protect his flock but he screwed them over so things weren't good, and if CDB takes over this camp he won't get a chance?

I hate FPP with the passion of a thousand buring suns.  Unfortunatley Kirkman seems to love him so I think we are stuck with his dumb ass for a long time.

[editorgrrl]

The writing for [Gabriel] is just awful and if the spoiler pans out that way I can't defend the writing for him anymore.

At least this episode sounds like it has a lot for some of the supporting characters (minus Rosita), although I notice that Abraham is still oddly isolated from everything outside of his own drama. I tend to wonder if they have any idea what to do with him or how much longer he'll be around.

If the spoiler is true, I don't understand why Abraham is working construction outside the gates. If it's just so he can fight some walkers, that's weak writing and fanservice.

Edited March 14, 2015 by editorgrrl

[The Mighty Peanut]

I would be so pissed at FPP if I was God. He sent his faithful servant a bunch of Old Testament warriors to break the vicious cycle of him helping literally zero people, leads them to fucking Bethlehem, and then FPP is like "These people are killers and demons and also got gross BLOOD on my carpet, kick them out!" I bet even God calls him Father Pee Pants.

Now if you'll excuse me I have to write "I will not talk about TWD characters like they are real" in manic scrawl in my diary.

Edited March 14, 2015 by The Mighty Peanut

[kj4ever]

If the spoiler is true, I don't understand why Abraham is working construction outside the gates. If it's just so he can fight some walkers, that's weak writing and fanservice.

I hope it's to expand Alexandria...There doesn't seem to be much room there, and I guess doing runs and gathering old can goods is how they survive which after 2 years is just stupid and sustainable.

[The Mighty Peanut]

Carol finds Sam in her house snooping around for cookies. (Does this kid ever eat a vegetable?) She tells him she will make some if he steals some chocolate for her.

What the fuck? I chant comprehend the enormity of how stupid this kid is.

[editorgrrl]

If the spoiler is true, Carol talks to Sam & realizes he's being abused by Pete.

[The Mighty Peanut]

That must be some horrific abuse if he's chancing another encounter with the Cookie Monster.

[Nashville]

That must be some horrific abuse if he's chancing another encounter with the Cookie Monster.

Interesting how that term could easily be applied to either Sam or Carol.

[Pete Martell]

Because CDB knows the truth about him?

Because they've been there too briefly to tell everything that happens, but how long before somebody mentions it to ASZ?

Because the last real conversation anybody from CDB had with him was Maggie saying he didn't know shit and he was supposed to lead and protect his flock but he screwed them over so things weren't good, and if CDB takes over this camp he won't get a chance?

 

If that's why he does it, that would be an interesting twist, but I get the feeling it's because he genuinely believes they're bad people. At this point I do think some of them are crossing that line, but dropping everyone into it? It's wrong. 

What the fuck? I chant comprehend the enormity of how stupid this kid is.

 

In some way I almost wonder if he wants to get caught, as he wants to spend more time with her. Maybe he is glad to be with someone new (death threat and all), with his father abusing him and his mother likely being abused herself. 

[kj4ever]

If that's why he does it, that would be an interesting twist, but I get the feeling it's because he genuinely believes they're bad people. At this point I do think some of them are crossing that line, but dropping everyone into it? It's wrong. 

 

In some way I almost wonder if he wants to get caught, as he wants to spend more time with her. Maybe he is glad to be with someone new (death threat and all), with his father abusing him and his mother likely being abused herself. 

Maybe he's glad he found a bat shit crazy person that might be able to take care of his Dad?

 

I can't even tell you how bad I hope they deviate from the comic and have Carol kill his ass. Not that I'm afraid it will make Rick look bad, but because I think Carol needs to do something like that to someone like him.

Edited March 14, 2015 by kj4ever

[kikismom]

Maybe he's glad he found a bat shit crazy person that might be able to take care of his Dad?

 

I can't even tell you how bad I hope they deviate from the comic and have Carol kill his ass. Not that I'm afraid it will make Rick look bad, but because I think Carol needs to do something like that to someone like him.

Oh, you brought back one of my favorite memories, Carol crushing Ed's skull over and over...and the way Daryl kept looking at Ed, and looking at her,and looking at Ed, and looking sideways at her...I thought it was a shock and a laugh at the same time.

[kikismom]

Season 5 finale sneak snap---and the possible interpretation: http://cdn.x2n.com.br/~wdbr/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/the-walking-dead-5-temporada-season-finale-set-003.jpg

 

Or it could just be Joakim Noah visiting the set...but he'd be waaay taller!  :-D

Here's same pic with more supposed identification:

http://www.twdenthusiasts.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/jesus-holly-the-walking-dead.jpg

 

Looking at the first pick in my OP, is that Aaron/Ross in the background?

Edited March 15, 2015 by kikismom

[Boofish]

So if they kill Noah then I guess his only purpose on the show was

get close to Beth - Beth dies

get close to Tyrese - Tyrese Dies

Morgan joins group as they now have an opening for a black guy

I don't care if he don't make it but as much as I defend this show that is some really sloppy writing. I didn't even get a opportunity to pretend to care.

[editorgrrl]

Episode 5.16 - Conquer

Daryl finds trouble while on a run; Rick and the group feel like outsiders in Alexandria, where trouble approaches the gates.

There was some confusion about whether Daryl was on "a" or "the" run. Now we know he's the new Eric.

I hope Morgan saves Daryl—he's good at that. And it'd be nice to have him bond with more of CDB. So far, he knows Rick and has met Michonne and Carl.

[TVFan17]

I guess Pete being an abuser is the show's "justification" for Rick's eventual hookup with Jessie.  It would have been too difficult a pill to swallow for Rick to simply have a steamy affair with a woman married to a nice, decent guy.  They had to make her husband a bad guy so that Rick (or whoever it is) is justified in killing him and boinking his wife.

 

At first I was thinking, "Rick!  Look at you with your flirty, cheek-kissin' self -- getting chummy with your new married neighbor!"  But now I see.  Either Rick will kill Pete (probably if he catches him abusing Sam or Jessie), or Carol will, or someone will.  And then Rick and Jessie will probably end up in the sack the same night.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Sherry67

[Ellaria]

So Aidan (or is it Aiden?) and Noah are supposedly dead meat (literally) this coming Sunday, according to Spoil the Dead's sources... but the ominous "90-minute finale" in a couple of weeks looms large. 

 

I don't put much stock in the 'keep your tissues handy' and 'you'll be throwing things at your TV screen' warnings anymore because -- let's face it -- no one from the cast or crew is going to say, "Yeah... the finale is a boring, slow episode and no one that you actually care about is going to die."  They obviously want to hype up whatever is going to happen, even if it just ends up that Rick hooks up with Jessie, or yet another walker horde closes in, or something along those lines. 

 

Though he will supposedly encounter some trouble while he's away from ASZ, I don't think Daryl will die just yet (not at that specific point in the series).  It could be that he gets abducted and we are left with an awful cliffhanger, wondering about Daryl's fate until October.   Something tells me that's what will happen.   (And then, reports and sightings will trickle in as soon as the cast begins shooting again, so we should know way before October if anyone has seen NR on the set.)

 

Or, Daryl could just wander off.  I keep going back to what Norman Reedus (or one of the other cast/crew) said a year or so ago about hoping that Daryl could just kind of walk off into the distance and never come back.  I don't think it's time for that kind of melancholy, soul-searching, quiet departure just yet, though...

 

...Daryl simultaneously gets into trouble and we don't know what happens to him, and trouble also descends on ASZ.

 

Or, maybe the season will end with another awkward cocktail party.

 

Ugh! I don't know why I wander into Spoiler threads.

 

Apparently, Noah's purpose was to be the trail guide to Alexandria. Why bother with this character at all? He hasn't been around long enough to make me care. Now, I'm just annoyed at the writing. There are too many characters without meaningful story arcs.

 

A 90 minute finale that requires tissues. Ominous, indeed. Or just a lot of hype over the same thing: a character wanders off and faces danger! I don't believe that we would lose Daryl just yet. And I'm really not in the mood for soul-searching Daryl. I'm more inclined to guess that he runs into the new villains in the show but none of it will revealed until next season. That's fine - we don't need any other villains in this show right now.

 

However, my preference is for another awkward cocktail party.

[Pete Martell]

I guess Pete being an abuser is the show's "justification" for Rick's eventual hookup with Jessie.  It would have been too difficult a pill to swallow for Rick to simply have a steamy affair with a woman married to a nice, decent guy.  They had to make her husband a bad guy so that Rick (or whoever it is) is justified in killing him and boinking his wife.

 

At first I was thinking, "Rick!  Look at you with your flirty, cheek-kissin' self -- getting chummy with your new married neighbor!"  But now I see.  Either Rick will kill Pete (probably if he catches him abusing Sam or Jessie), or Carol will, or someone will.  And then Rick and Jessie will probably end up in the sack the same night.

 

I wish the show realized that not all the viewer complaints about Rick's behavior are just based on it being a married woman, but that he was acting like a creeper and a weirdo. I can tolerate an affair storyline if it's written well enough. His behavior toward her put me off and it would no matter what her husband was like.

Apparently, Noah's purpose was to be the trail guide to Alexandria. Why bother with this character at all? He hasn't been around long enough to make me care. Now, I'm just annoyed at the writing. There are too many characters without meaningful story arcs.

 

It's a double-edged sword, because characters have to die - any time they don't, viewers start talking about how boring it is (unless their favorite dies...THEN they're upset). Yet they also can't kill off any major characters over and over again. They've gotten somewhat better at this than in season 3, where there were clumsy efforts at bringing in new people clearly just there to bite it, but this is as bad as those season 3 cannon fodders, especially since this is the third black man to be killed this season. The optics are terrible, and the criticism will overshadow much of whatever the show is trying to do in the final episodes of the season. I can already imagine the guffawing in the AV Club review comments section.

 

Sometimes this show is its own worst enemy.

[Ellaria]

It's a double-edged sword, because characters have to die - any time they don't, viewers start talking about how boring it is (unless their favorite dies...THEN they're upset). Yet they also can't kill off any major characters over and over again. They've gotten somewhat better at this than in season 3, where there were clumsy efforts at bringing in new people clearly just there to bite it, but this is as bad as those season 3 cannon fodders, especially since this is the third black man to be killed this season. The optics are terrible, and the criticism will overshadow much of whatever the show is trying to do in the final episodes of the season. I can already imagine the guffawing in the AV Club review comments section.

Sometimes this show is its own worst enemy.

Agree - it is its own worst enemy. It's one thing to have cannon fodder. When the cannon fodder drives an ultimately useless plot like Dawn and the hospital wackos, then you have to question their foresight. I know that characters have to die but if our main gang has to go, I'd prefer it to be with purpose. Edited March 16, 2015 by Ellaria Sand

[GreyBunny]

There's a theory going around that 5B is a tribute to Dale.  We saw Glenn show Abraham the RV's spare battery, we know how he knew that.  Someone else pointed out this:

 

The Dale reference 5B title theory

The campfire scene in episode 104 "Vatos" Dale quotes william Faulkner: "I like what father said to son when he gave him the watch. I give it to you not that you may REMEMBER (512) time, but that you may FORGET (513) it for a moment now and then and not SPEND (514) all of your breath TRYing (515) to CONQUER (516) it."

 

Kinda interesting.

[Pete Martell]

Are there any characters with bug eyes in Alexandria? Or any sanctimonious lecturers?

[Anela]

I've just seen the promo for next week. Was Chris chasing Glenn, or are they both running towards something? And who was that girl running, that they make it look like Sasha shoots? Was that Enid?

[GreyBunny]

Chris?  You mean Nicholas?  They're both running toward something.  Glenn's a badass, he wouldn't run from Nicholas, he'd keep pounding his face for good measure.

[Anela]

Chris?  You mean Nicholas?  They're both running toward something.  Glenn's a badass, he wouldn't run from Nicholas, he'd keep pounding his face for good measure.

Nicholas, yes. I meant to edit that out, because I watched it again, pausing it as it went. 

[AndySmith]

 

The show is already hopeless enough without killing Judith. She's the hope for the future.

 

She doesn't have to be. Glenn and Maggie can have their own "hope for the future". And that's just one example.

 

I nreally don't care for Morgan, and hope he doesn't join the show...sadly, it seems like they're heading in that direction.

[maystone]

I've just seen the promo for next week. Was [Nicholas] chasing Glenn, or are they both running towards something? And who was that girl running, that they make it look like Sasha shoots? Was that Enid?

 

 

 

It looks like Glenn is running pell-mell toward something. Yup, that was Enid heading for the wall.  My big concern is over the clip of Deanna and Rick standing over three gravestones.  Noah, Aidan, and … Tara? Please, don't let it be Tara; I love Tara. And also - where did they get the gravestones? That's not the kind of thing you just have hanging around.

 

Deanna burns a piece of paper. Kind of malevolently. What came to mind is Rick saying earlier to (Daryl? Caryl?) that he "signed the paper." I thought it was a metaphor for agreeing to give Alexandria a chance, but maybe Deanna had everyone sign actual contracts. It certainly would be the beauracratic thing to do.

Edited March 17, 2015 by maystone

[Pete Martell]

There's something I was going to ask but I guess it's more suited for the comics thread.