Spoilers and Speculation

[Nashville]

Rick and Michonne in bed is the best ever.  But eating an apple?  Bleh.  I'm not a food in bed person and the thought of apple juice dribbling all over the sheets icked me out. 

  

Someone on another site explained to me that apples are considered breath fresheners when one doesn't have toothpaste or a chance to brush. Considering how much Michonne loves to brush her teeth, I think the apple was a great idea. As I wrote on the other site, I'm always taken out of a scene when characters start kissing or talking in each other's faces the second after they wake up.

 

True dat - PLUS, you can have lotsa fun trying to lick the apple juice off each other BEFORE it gets on the sheets....

Re: Maggie's hair. Spoil the Dead has reported Maggie wants a new haircut and asks Enid to cut it in episode 15. I haven't read the comics, but I assumed Maggie's haircut was a response to her grief over Glenn's death. This spoiler sounds like she just wants a new haircut. So either it's another fake out to make people believe Glenn is safe in episode 16 (since the haircut has nothing to do with his death), or he isn't the one dying. But if this is a cliffhanger, it looks like the show runners can see how contract stuff goes over the hiatus and Lucille anyone.

...OR, it signifies her transition from Labor to Management - taking the reins of control at either the ASZ or Hilltop....

[Eyes High]

The Spoil the Dead 6x15 spoilers regarding Carol/Morgan are at odds with what the TSDF spoilers are for that scene from 6x16. In 6x16, Morgan happens across Carol (injured with a slash to her side) in a library camp full of victims massacred by the Saviours; he patches her up and wants to bring her back for medical attention, and she refuses.

 

According to the new spoilers, in 6x15 Morgan rescues Carol from a Saviour trying to kill her, but she's already been shot in the leg and the arm. (Morgan kills the Saviour.) So are Carol and Morgan separated before Morgan supposedly runs across Carol again in 6x15? Carol's not in any position to flee Morgan if she's been shot in the leg and the arm. I realize that the finale is 90 minutes long, meaning a lot can happen but the sequence of events seems to be Carol is shot in the leg and arm/Morgan saves her/Morgan later finds Carol in a camp where everyone else has been slaughtered by Saviours/Carol has a new wound in her side, which makes no sense whatsoever. If Carol's been shot twice, she'll hardly have the wherewithal to ditch Morgan and travel to a camp, where she gets fucked up again and has to be tracked down by Morgan again. Makes no sense.

 

The other weird part about the STD spoilers for 6x15 is that Carol supposedly slaughters the Saviours who initially capture her (except for one who manages to survive), which renders her whole dramatic flounce out of Alexandria a little hollow.

 

If both sets of spoilers are correct and Carol is not only slashed in the side in 6x16 and refusing medical help but also shot twice in 6x15, this could very well be Carol's swan song.

 

TSDF for their part suggests that the STD Carol/Morgan spoilers are referencing the same scene as the TSDF 6x16 Carol/Morgan spoilers, only that there are "discrepancies" between the two spoilers (the nature of Carol's injuries, e.g.). So we'll see. Stay tuned.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Eyes High

[Ellaria]

If both sets of spoilers are correct and Carol is not only slashed in the side in 6x16 and refusing medical help but also shot twice in 6x15, this could very well be Carol's swan song.

 

Even if some of this information is correct - for example, slashed in the side and refusing medical help - it could still be Carol's swan song. What does this suggest then? That she dies with only Morgan by her side?

 

I don't like this turn of events. However, it certainly could be the direction that her story takes...and, sadly, the way that it ends.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Ellaria Sand

[Janimo]

No...please, don't let Carol die........

[Statman]

Spoilers for 6.15 from Spoil the Dead:

 

- The episode opens with Carol who has met a group of saviors in a car led by a guy named Hiro. Later we see how Carol met these people.

- After Rick is told by Tobin of Carol's departure, he and Morgan leave in search of her.

- Carol uses her ruse of “helplessness” as she always does and abruptly disposes of them with a gun that was hidden in her sleeve. But unbeknownst to her one of the men survived.

- Morgan and Rick come upon a zombie that they are concerned may be Carol but after seeing that it's not her they kill it. They spot a guy in custom-made armor and chase him into an abandoned barn. The guy starts screaming that zombies are coming and Rick and Morgan have to kill a few, then Rick turns his gun on the armored guy. Before Rick can kill him, Morgan pushes Rick saving the other man's life. Morgan explains why he saved the man in armor to Rick by confessing that he'd secretly held a Wolf captive and thinks he succeeded in reaching him.

- Rick tells Morgan that Michonne stole his protein bar.

- Carol is ambushed by the savior who survived her attack, he shoots her a few times (in the leg and arm) and has her down for the kill. But just in the nick of time Morgan comes to the rescue with a pistol.

- Morgan tries to reason with him but the man will not give up his gun or pursuit. Morgan ends up shooting Carol’s assailant, finally breaking his own code and kills him.

- Back at Alexandria, Maggie wants a new haircut and asks Enid to do it, but Enid is worried that she'll cut it too short because she was used to cutting her father's hair. But as you've seen, the new look turns out ok... then Maggie starts getting stomach pains.

- As you saw in the promo Daryl ends rides off from Alexandria. He ends up in the woods where he (at least his bike) is found by members of the group that go after him, particularly Michonne. The end of the episode features him surrounded by Dwight and his saviors, ambushed from behind. Dwight shoots Daryl from behind and Daryl’s blood is splattered on the camera. (but don't fear/jump for joy just yet.. the source confirms that if you watch the scene in slow motion you can see that the gun was pointed to Daryl’s shoulder) End credits.

 

6.16 spoilers:

 

- Another man in custom-made armor is spotted, this time being beaten by saviors. He isn't the one who Morgan saved.

- The man in custom-made armor that Morgan would not let Rick kill does show up in this episode with another man covered in similar armor, though. Turns out Morgan's instincts were right about him, they appear to be decent people as some members of our group find out. The people in armor seem to be enemies of the saviors.

- At Alexandria they are preparing to transport Maggie to the Hilltop via RV. Rick, Abraham, Glen, Maggie, Aaron, Eugene and Carl all tag come along on this venture. Rick would rather Aaron stay, but Aaron says the only way to stop him is to shoot him or punch him (again).

- Along the way the roads are blocked by different groups of saviors. Our people faced one group similarly to how Daryl, Sasha and Abraham faced the group which they blew up, but this time was different. This group had an unnamed victim with them (the armored guy being beaten at the beginning of the episode.).

- Threats are thrown around with the leader of this group (Not Negan), with Rick asking him "Do you want this to be your last day on Earth?” and the leader returns Ricks question. After an intense standoff it's Rick's group that turns back.

- Now on another road, our group comes across a chain of walkers, two of which are wearing things that belong to Michonne and Daryl (two locks of Michonne's hair and Daryl's jacket). Because of this everyone comes to the realization that Daryl and Michonne are hostages.

- In the woods there's a group of saviors watching who start whistling then start shooting at our group, taunting them, driving them back into a certain direction that they want. Rick realizes this after seeing that that the saviors are purposely only shooting at the group's legs.

- A little while later the the saviors hang their unnamed victim (who was armored), Aaron wants to shoot the chain to try to save them but Rick concludes it is pointless.

- Toward the end our group is cornered and becomes surrounded by the saviors and taken captive, with Michonne and Daryl (who turn out to be alive) brought into the mix to join them. I've heard it's nine people in total from our group: Rick, Carl, Glenn, Daryl, Michonne, Maggie, Abraham, Eugene and Aaron.

- Then man you all have been waiting for, Negan, shows up in the last ten minutes of the episode, along with his barbed-wired bat that he calls by name "Lucille".

- He has a long monologue in which he explains that Rick killed a lot of his people and that Rick and the others have to start working for him, giving him half of what they have. And as retribution he concludes that he's going to kill one of them and if anybody tried to stop him he would take Carl's other eye and give it to Rick to eat.

- Our group are all on their knees as he decides who to kill; He looks at Maggie (who's health/stomach pains have worsened), but Glenn interjects and Negan says he was thinking to kill her so he could get her out of her pains. He has trouble deciding which one to kill so he begins his game of "Eeny, meeny, miny, moe" Every one of our captured characters' faces are shown during the count.

And the moment we’ve all been waiting for....

- When he finally chooses, the camera view switches to the ill-fated character's point of view, so we don't know who has been selected. Negan bashes his/her head and their vision/the camera becomes blurry. Everybody starts shouting at the carnage. Then Negan makes a few more hits causing the ill-fated character to fall on the ground, and after a one more final hit there is a sudden fade to black. End credits, end season.

To make it clear before the questions start: there's no mumbling by said character or anything else that would give away his/her identity. There's just screaming, the bat hits, a blurry camera, and a fade to black. Who dies is just one. Big. Tease.

[galaxygirl76]

I was jokingly telling my obsessed co-workers how the season would end and I can not believe I'm going to be right!

[Spartan Girl]

Well, fuck.

So

NONE of the people in Negan's to-kill group are Morgan?! God damnit, that almost as bad as not knowing who does die!! And we have to wait til October to find out?!

Negan had better be boss enough to make up for this shit.

[Ellaria]

Assuming those spoilers are correct...

- The only ones minding the ranch back at Alexandria are Rosita, Sasha and Gabriel.

- Tara and Heath are still on the supply run.

- We won't get closure on Carol's fate until next season.

Meh. Don't like the way that any of this is being handled...at all. Can't believe that they chose to delay the "death" reveal. Well, wait, I can believe it. This is the team that rolled Glenn under a dumpster for a few episodes.

And, with the odd focus on Aaron in that summary, I wonder if he meets Lucille rather than Glenn or Daryl.

[indeed]

Aaron is the red-shirty-ist of them all. If it turns out to be him, that's probably going to turn a lot of people off. Although, I do like his character and I wouldn't want him to go--especially since it would be another Alexandrian bites the dust. And really, why is he there (not to mention Carl, but I guess he was there as a Lucille witness in the comics?)??

[Eyes High]

I think generally TSDF >>> STD in terms of accuracy, so I would wait for TSDF to weigh in on 6x15 and 6x16 before taking these spoilers as fact. It looks like we're going to get some clarification on what's going on with Carol and Morgan, since it's highly unlikely that both TSDF and STD's stories on Carol/Morgan are 100% correct.

 

TSDF posted filming spoilers showing Carol and an armoured guy. This does suggest a lead-in to the Kingdom storyline--they wore armour in the comics--and might be a way for Carol to be "saved," if they're intercepted by Kingdom people and Carol gets patched up there.

 

Both the TSDF and STD accounts show Carol and Morgan meeting up. I'm thinking that even if Carol is severely wounded and rejects Morgan's assistance, it won't matter if some Kingdom folks show up, take them into custody, and haul them back to the Kingdom. Maybe Carol and Morgan live to scrap another day and wind up serving as accidental ambassadors for the Alexandria community, as someone suggested upthread.

 

If STD is to be believed, it seems like the armoured guys are good dudes and are currently in conflict with the Saviours. It could be good for Carol and Morgan to wind up with them.

 

Finally, if the writers want me NOT to ship Morgan/Carol, they're doing a piss-poor job. At this point I want them to run away together and go raise some goats.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Eyes High

[JackONeill]

If it IS Glenn, then I really dislike what they did with the dumpster. I feel that the poeple who run this show deliberately try to piss off the audience and it's not because they're artists. Instead it's because they're childish, power-hungry pricks!

[catcory]

Re: Rick and Michonne clip - OMG!!!  So hot and sweet, but mostly hot.  Rick is a frisky guy and I love it.  But Michonne was being all responsible, knowing she had to go to work. I cracked up, it was so damn cute. But on the other hand they were having a very healthy breakfast.

 

Now to the spoilers, this makes me sick if any of this stuff goes down, I feel sick even writing this. Show why are you doing this to me?????

Edited March 23, 2016 by catcory

[Pete Martell]

Well, that ending sounds like a lot of people are going to hate it, for a lot of different reasons. We'll see.

Some of it sounds a little too Terminus-y for me. I also have to wonder if Aaron dies, as the part where Rick insists he should stay behind and Aaron refuses is...clunky and ominous.

[JackONeill]

Like I said last week - this is Terminux redux. Everybody all lined up for one (or more) of our people to get whacked. With a bat!!!

I expect to hear Rick yelling as the screen goes black: "They're screwing with the wrong people."

Edited March 23, 2016 by JackONeill

[peach]

WTF?  Are they still working out contract negotiations?  Do the actors even know who it is?

[SimoneS]

I am surprised that the ending spoiler for 6x16. The whole season the whole group has hardly been together and suddenly most of them are in the same place. RME. In any case, I still think that Abraham will likely be the one to die.

Edited March 23, 2016 by SimoneS

[JackONeill]

WTF?  Are they still working out contract negotiations?  Do the actors even know who it is?

I suspect everyone who is up to have their contract negotiated probably filmed a death scene. And that will be used in negotiations.

[TVFan17]

Well... those are some great spoilers that Statman posted above (for the final 2 episodes of the season), but if those turn out to be 100% accurate I am going to be so mad at how the season ends.  After that dumpster fiasco, which was ridiculous, I don't want another cliffhanger -- a 6-month cliffhanger, no less -- that totally kills the momentum of the Lucille moment.  By the time of the season premiere, we will have already learned who was seen filming over the summer, so we will know who did not get killed by Lucille at that point.  But if they would just make it clear who gets killed in the season finale, then the impact would be very dramatic.

 

They are getting way too manipulative at TWD for my taste.  They weren't always this bad with the teases and cliffhangers.  They obviously don't want to kill off any of the major characters anymore -- like they did in the earlier seasons -- so they bring on new characters to kill so they don't have to kill anyone major.  But they think that they can make us believe that a major character is getting killed and then leave us in suspense.

 

So frustrating.... arrrggghhhh...

[SimoneS]

I suspect everyone who is up to have their contract negotiated probably filmed a death scene. And that will be used in negotiations.

 

I find it hard to believe that AMC would spend the money to film multiple deaths. Plus Gimple has been working on season seven for months. If it is a cliffhanger ending, Gimple already selected who is going to die and has filmed that death.

Edited March 23, 2016 by SimoneS

[Corporal Agarn]

If this is true, who wants to bet the first episode of season 7 is a flashback and we won't find out who got Lucilled till halfway through it?

[peach]

I find it hard to believe that AMC would spend the money to film multiple deaths. Plus Gimple has been working on season seven for months. If it is a cliffhanger ending, Gimple already selected who is going to die and has filmed that death.

 

While he may have chosen who it is, that doesn't mean they filmed it.  With a six month hiatus, the story could pick up with them dealing with the aftermath, but not necessarily a body lying on the ground.  They may not have filmed anyone's death, and will begin filming from another vantage point after the finale.  Just because Gimple knows who it is, doesn't mean the rest of them do, especially if AMC wants negotiation leverage.

[Eyes High]

Update from STD on Carol in 6x15 and 6x16:

6.15
We will see Carol leaving, Tobin comes to see her and they share a kiss. The next time we see her in Alexandria she is packing and leaving.

6.16
Carol appears welcoming of death to members of her attackers, taunting them.

Morgan tries to convince Carol to return with him and informs her that many people came looking for her and that everyone else would have but they were gone before they knew she was.

The armoured men show up with horses and offer their help to Carol and Morgan. This is the last we see of them for the season.

 

Sounds like

Carol and Morgan are safe

as of the end of 6x16. Depending on which characters you like and don't like, that could be very bad or very good news.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Eyes High

[Evie]

If it IS Glenn, then I really dislike what they did with the dumpster. I feel that the poeple who run this show deliberately try to piss off the audience and it's not because they're artists. Instead it's because they're childish, power-hungry pricks!

If it IS Glenn, I dislike what they did with the dumpster and his character all season. Missing so many episodes. No real story. Stuck with Enid for several episodes. He killed but Daryl and Rick guzzling soda probably got as much focus.

[SimoneS]

While he may have chosen who it is, that doesn't mean they filmed it.  With a six month hiatus, the story could pick up with them dealing with the aftermath, but not necessarily a body lying on the ground.  They may not have filmed anyone's death, and will begin filming from another vantage point after the finale.  Just because Gimple knows who it is, doesn't mean the rest of them do, especially if AMC wants negotiation leverage.

 

I cannot imagine that they don't film a death scene of regular or reoccurring character on TWD. That has never happened and would be a real jump the shark moment. Besides networks don't wait for contacts to actually end before starting to negotiate the next contract. They typically start negotiations months before the contract ends, especially with their main cast members. So AMC and Gimple already know who contract won't be renewed or extended early in the season and will have the time lay the groundwork for the character's departure and film the death scene before the actor leaves and becomes unavailable.

[InsertWordHere]

 

- Rick tells Morgan that Michonne stole his protein bar.

Rick, you dog! After she shared her apple with you and everything?

[TVFan17]

The Spoiling Dead Fans went off to investigate the new round of spoilers/foilers, and I guess they found out some stuff (and might even be waiting on more info).  They said they would post in about 7 hours (which now would be about 6 hours) with the season finale info, including Negan and Lucille tidbits.  In fact, they warned everyone to unfollow the Facebook page or leave now if they don't want to know what's coming.  They said they have information that they'd like to follow up with in regards to the spoilers from earlier.  I think they also now know whether or not the finale episode will end with a cliffhanger.

 

My feeling is that the info that TSDF is going to reveal is not all of it.  There will probably be more info next week, or maybe some details will not leak out at all, but I think that we'll get a good bit of it right now.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Sherry67

[Caelicola]

I don't usually read spoilers, but I came across these against my better wishes (grrrr) and oh boy, if they're true, that's the most short-sighted move I've even seen, from a promotional point of view. That means that they won't be able to tease/promote/hype anything regarding Rick, Daryl, Michonne, Carl, Glenn OR Maggie, and that's like 80% of their main cast; the trailer for season 7 will have to be only Carol, Morgan, Sasha and Judith, with some Negan in complete isolation; the only hook for the next season will be who got the bat, and once that question is answered, there's literally only scraps left. It won't be just jumping the shark (again), and complete creative bankruptcy for which they'll rightly be raked over the coals by any critic, but also promotional suicide. I really really hope it won't play out like that, because that's a really shitty way to treat not only their fans, but their own cast and marketing department too. Just layer upon layer of bullshit, all the way down, and they'll have to stop pretending that the show is anything but the cheapest, most manipulative soap opera in apocalyptic setting.

I hope this post will turn out to be completely pointless and premature, but I needed to vent. Sorry.

[SimoneS]

I could see them having filmed multiple death scenes with as many as three characters as a way to avoid spoilers, but if the spoiler above is true and they only filmed the scene from the perspective of the victim with a shaky, blurry cam, then they don't even need to do that. They would probably shoot the actual scene for the season seven premiere then. However, what disturbs me if they really set it up that way is that they will make a cliffhanger out of such a violent death. If they set up the death as a "cliffhanger event" , they prove again that they have no respect for the audience and that they are only interested in making a spectacle out of violence and manipulating the audience. The scene would have the audience talking, even without a "who got it"-mystery.

 

I don't get this "no respect for the audience" outrage that I see all over the Internet about TWD. The writers are telling a compelling entertaining story than has violence, romance, and pushes the audience's emotions. Of course, they amp up the drama and go for twists and turns. This is what makes this show must see viewing, I don't see anything wrong with them going with a cliffhanger ending which is a traditional dramatic device. If they did film the death from the victim's perspective and are leaving the reveal until the season 7 premiere so that is all people talk about it over the off season like Game of Thrones and Jon Snow's death, then TWD would have done their jobs well.

Edited March 23, 2016 by SimoneS

[Caelicola]

The difference is, GOT didn't leave the fate of most of its cast up in the air. The big question is "is Jon Snow dead or alive?", not "who's gonna die? Tune in to find out!!", and they didn't leave unresolved the biggest -if not only- storyline they've been building for most of the season. It's a copout, after they had most of the cast hype all season long how dark and twisted and horrible and unexpected the finale is gonna be. Unexpected? Yeah, because people expected something to actually happen, and for the audience it won't until next season. Also, it's not a sustainable marketing strategy; GOT has a whole enormous cast that still has storylines to talk and speculate about, this would leave TWD with just two full characters and a handful of bit players still in play. The buzz will turn tiresome after seven months, and the audience will get bored of it, because it will be the only thing to talk about.

I don't think it's disrespectful, I just think it's really bad writing, and a cheap, myopic way to get a watercooler moment that would have happened anyway.

I'm completely ready to eat crow if it turns out differently. I hope I get to eat crow. I'm peckish.

 

ETA: It's also much more sadistic, because there's people (raises hand) who don't really give a crap about the fate of Jon Snow, while almost everyone will have at least one favorite character in that line-up who they're gonna be really worried about for months on end.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Caelicola

[SimoneS]

Since Negan is only going to kill one person, how is the fate of the most of TWD cast up in the air? The show hasn't even aired and there is all this outrage. I don't see where there is sadism here. It is a dramatic technique to hook the audience. I am going to wait to see how it plays out on the screen. If there is a cliffhanger and a character that I like is in the line up, I will be holding my breath over the off season and will be chatting and debating with other fans about who was killed while I am on pins and needle dying for the season 7 premiere.

Edited March 23, 2016 by SimoneS

[Ellaria]

Well, I do care about the fate of Jon Snow but I hate to make comparisons between the shows. Different stories and different show runners. I prefer to judge each show on its on merits.

 

A great deal of the marketing and promotion efforts over the last few months have circled around Negan, Lucille and its victim. I have not read the graphic novels but I know what happens...as do many of my friends. IMO, many fans - readers and non-readers alike - are expecting to see Negan kill someone in the finale. If we don't see it and are teased with it instead, it does feel like a bit of a "cheat." Rather than compare it to another show, let's compare it to the novel on which it is based. The novel depicted the brutality and horror and didn't delay it until the next issue. (Yes, I understand that book and and show are not always directly comparable either.)

 

A cliffhanger ending isn't normally problematic; that's what most shows do in their season finales. Keep in mind: the cliffhanger could be "how will Rick's group get away," "what will happen to Carol and Morgan," rather than "who was killed." Again, IMO, the hype for Negan/Lucille - along with the leaked video - is creating expectations that may not be met, if these spoilers are true. And that's bound to annoy some viewers. Additionally, the "who will die" discussions will continue into the fall. And that may be hard to sustain. Some viewers - me included - will get bored with it.

 

Let's just hope that this particular spoiler isn't true.

[Haleth]

I had to come here to find out what was going to happen in the finale.  Of course I'd heard about the comics and was hoping it wasn't going to be the same on the show.  The thing is that I'll be traveling the night of the finale and for most of the week and will not have access to internet during that time.  It was killing me (heh) to think I'd have to wait a week or so to find out who got Lucilled.  That said, I'm glad to find out that everyone will be in the same boat, not knowing who died for six months.

[Caelicola]

Since Negan is only going to kill one person, how is the fate of the most of TWD cast up in the air? The show hasn't even aired and there is all this outrage. I don't see where there is sadism here. It is a dramatic technique to hook the audience. I am going to wait to see how it plays out on the screen. If there is a cliffhanger and a character that I like is in the line up, I will be holding my breath over the off season and will be chatting and debating with other fans about who was killed while I am on pins and needle dying for the season 7 premiere.

Of course, this is all speculation and possibly worrying for nothing, but it is the spoilers and speculation thread, so I don't feel too bad about it. And maybe I'll be very surprised, and they'll do the whole thing in a way I will like, or love. This is just preemptively venting annoyances, so I'll hopefully be less annoyed if it does go down in a way I hate.

 

But the fate of most of the cast is literally up in the air if we don't get a single clue about who gets it...is Michonne gonna die? (unless you go looking for filming spoilers), who knows. Is Glenn still alive? Who knows. Is Maggie dead? Maybe! Is Daryl still kicking? Beats me. Did they actually do it, and killed Rick/Carl? Might be! Did they majorly cop out and kill Abraham or Aaron? Oh, why not.

It's not most of the cast at risk, but it is most of the cast in doubt, and none of them will have anything else to possibly talk about without spoiling the one hook they have for the new season. And it's gonna be talked about ad literal (at least for me) nauseam.

My main problem is that I'm already bored of the speculation over who get Lucilled now, and I've been trying to actively avoid spoilers, I can't imagine I'll be any more entertained by it after a whole summer spent on it. It also compounds my problems with the pacing of the show, a whole half season of waiting for Negan and then he shows up and.....more waiting. It's like counting down to new year's day, only to find out your watch was actually two hours ahead and now you have to kill those two hours somehow (and you've already opened -and drank- the booze, because it was there and you thought it was midnight. Womp womp womp), and new year's day is actually something really bad that you fear will make you very sad.

But I will stop, now, I just needed a good old fashioned ranting space.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Caelicola

[JackONeill]

Well, I do care about the fate of Jon Snow but I hate to make comparisons between the shows. Different stories and different show runners. I prefer to judge each show on its on merits.

 

A great deal of the marketing and promotion efforts over the last few months have circled around Negan, Lucille and its victim. I have not read the graphic novels but I know what happens...as do many of my friends. IMO, many fans - readers and non-readers alike - are expecting to see Negan kill someone in the finale. If we don't see it and are teased with it instead, it does feel like a bit of a "cheat." Rather than compare it to another show, let's compare it to the novel on which it is based. The novel depicted the brutality and horror and didn't delay it until the next issue. (Yes, I understand that book and and show are not always directly comparable either.)

 

A cliffhanger ending isn't normally problematic; that's what most shows do in their season finales. Keep in mind: the cliffhanger could be "how will Rick's group get away," "what will happen to Carol and Morgan," rather than "who was killed." Again, IMO, the hype for Negan/Lucille - along with the leaked video - is creating expectations that may not be met, if these spoilers are true. And that's bound to annoy some viewers. Additionally, the "who will die" discussions will continue into the fall. And that may be hard to sustain. Some viewers - me included - will get bored with it.

 

Let's just hope that this particular spoiler isn't true.

A couple of things to add to this, and I don't want it to sound like I'm piling. Look, I like the show. I've watched from the start.

1) this upcoming ending sounds very, very similar to the trough scene in the Terminus story (defend that however you want, but I'm sorry writers are supposed to write new stuff, not keep regurgitating old stuff, and yes, I know Neegan is in the comics and it's the pinnacle, etc, etc, etc. Point is, it's repetitive)

2) I Remember how upset a lot of people were with the whole "did Glenn die or not ? Oh, look, he slid under a dumpster." I remember a lot of fans felt manipulated by the writers. (That's a different feeling the when a favorite character is killed. As pissed as you might get because you're losing your favorite, as long as it makes sense to the plot -- if it's organic and essential to the plot -- you go with it.) Then, when we found out Glenn was alive, he barely escaped death again. Then, he had little to do as far as plot. Only now (maybe)he might die for real. If he dies, is that good writing, or just manipulation? I know how I feel.

3) the whole waiting to next season to see who dies via baseball bat fells Ike a cheat to me, something I resent. But, understand, that's my personal opinion. And as I said at the start, I LIKE this show. But I see its weakenesss. I think it could be better.

[Pete Martell]

I don't get this "no respect for the audience" outrage that I see all over the Internet about TWD. The writers are telling a compelling entertaining story than has violence, romance, and pushes the audience's emotions. Of course, they amp up the drama and go for twists and turns. This is what makes this show must see viewing, I don't see anything wrong with them going with a cliffhanger ending which is a traditional dramatic device. If they did film the death from the victim's perspective and are leaving the reveal until the season 7 premiere so that is all people talk about it over the off season like Game of Thrones and Jon Snow's death, then TWD would have done their jobs well.

 

One of the reasons it's hard to compare this to Jon Snow is that I don't really know how many people believe he's actually dead anyway. The Jon Snow situation is more like the fake Glenn death situation.

 

Obviously here someone is actually going to die, but the real question is how many viewers are going to want to sit around for months waiting to find out who, especially if they end up spending those months seeing comic spoilers and learning about Glenn. If Glenn dies on the show, they may just go, "Eh," or, "Well he was already supposed to be dead anyway." And if someone like Abraham or Aaron dies, I'm not sure viewers would have much of a reaction. I'd be pretty pissed off if it's Aaron, both because it's a copout and because I have no desire to see a gay man bludgeoned to death, but most viewers would not care one way or the other. 

 

I am wary that unless the finale is superbly done, ending it this way is a no-win situation, especially if compared to Terminus. I get the logic of the comparison - they escaped Terminus wholly intact, and will not do so here - but it may just seem derivative. I do understand that ending it with us seeing someone specifically splattered and bloodied on the ground is also questionable - how many viewers will just say, "OK, I saw it, I'm done," both from disgust or from fanboys getting their fix and moving on. But I'm not sure this way is going to be any better. 

 

I can't help wondering if they would have been better off stretching the Wolves stuff out, having our heroes in a decent place come finale time, then have Negan appearing for the first time to kill minor characters we'd seen a few times - perhaps people who briefly stayed in Alexandria, helped Rick and co out, seemed to be able to take care of themselves, but end up dying brutal deaths. Then Negan is set up as a threat for season 7, which could begin with a string of episodes featuring the group's capture and the death of a major character.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Pete Martell

[nodorothyparker]

I didn't expect to be happy about the spoilers coming out, so at least I'm not disappointed on that front.

 

There are a couple of problems with the cliffhanger.  One, they already burned a huuuuge amount of goodwill and trust from the audience with the Glenn hides under a dumpster for three episodes fakeout.  Then the midseason finale that ended just before any real action started and forced people to wait a few more months really didn't help.  Two, this storyline is one of the worst kept secrets in modern fandom.  Even people who don't read the comics know about it.  People who don't look for spoilers know something extremely bad is coming just from general discussion about the show.  So to end without absolutely nothing resolved and six or seven months to stew on it is going to bore or piss people off.  I'm already bored after months of speculation on who it was going to be as it is.  Third, how the hell do you promote season seven from this when you know at least one of the characters telling us how awesome it's going to be is already dead?  What can they possibly talk about that won't give anything away?

 

This is different from Terminus in that that season ender didn't end at the trough.  It ended with our gang finally reunited and Rick telling us they're screwing with the wrong people.  You could go into that season at least hopeful you were going to see how they got out of it and that maybe they would still be okay.  Unless we begin season seven with a two-part flashback on Olivia taking inventory while Gabriel does whatever Gabriel does these days when he's not toting a rifle, we already know this one's going to start on something we really don't want to see.

Edited March 23, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[Ellaria]

(That's a different feeling the when a favorite character is killed. As pissed as you might get because you're losing your favorite, as long as it makes sense to the plot -- if it's organic and essential to the plot -- you go with it.)

 

Exactly. I'm watching a dark show. I expect that my favorite characters may get killed at some point.

 

 

There are a couple of problems with the cliffhanger.  One, they already burned a huuuuge amount of goodwill and trust from the audience with the Glenn hides under a dumpster for three episodes fakeout.  Then the midseason finale that ended just before any real action started and forced people to wait a few more months really didn't help.  Two, this storyline is one of the worst kept secrets in modern fandom.  Even people who don't read the comics know about it.  People who don't look for spoilers know something extremely bad is coming just from general discussion about the show.  So to end without absolutely nothing resolved and six or seven months to stew on it is going to bore or piss people off.  I'm already bored after months of speculation on who it was going to be as it is.  Third, how the hell do you promote season seven from this when you know at least one of the characters telling us how awesome it's going to be is already dead?  What can they possibly talk about that won't give anything away?

 

I'm bored with the speculation, too. I'd much rather spend six months discussing how Rick and the Gang come back from this horror. In a show when death - to a point - is expected, I'd much rather speculate about survival. The tendency to tease death is a bit manipulative (for lack of a better word) and they use it too often. The three-month-long zombie walk in the mid-season finale is a great example.

 

 

I am wary that unless the finale is superbly done, ending it this way is a no-win situation, especially if compared to Terminus. I get the logic of the comparison - they escaped Terminus wholly intact, and will not do so here - but it may just seem derivative. I do understand that ending it with us seeing someone specifically splattered and bloodied on the ground is also questionable - how many viewers will just say, "OK, I saw it, I'm done," both from disgust or from fanboys getting their fix and moving on. But I'm not sure this way is going to be any better.

 

I also agree that it is a no-win situation. When a show is this popular, it is nearly impossible to consistently surprise and entertain.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Ellaria Sand

[JackONeill]

One other thing: I liked the Terminus storyline. In fact, I wished they had played that out for a while longer. I realize the two stories aren't identical with the exception that several of our people are captured by the baddy and lined up with a baseball bat(!) behind their head. To me, that's the main, and pretty big, parallel.

Couple that with this: the Neegan storyline is no real surprise to anyone, in fact it already seems like old news. (I'm ready to move on. I feel like it's taken us forever just to get to this point.)

Truly repetitive or not, it feels that way to me.

Edited March 23, 2016 by JackONeill

[peach]

Pacing has always been this show's weakest point, IMO.

 

Maybe they are thinking about all the people who say, "If X dies, I'll stop watching."  So if the death turns out to be your personal X, you might not come back in the fall.  This way, they force everyone to come back and see who it is, and even though we all say we'll stop watching, once you're actually watching it, it's easy to get hooked by something.

 

 

I cannot imagine that they don't film a death scene of regular or reoccurring character on TWD. That has never happened and would be a real jump the shark moment. Besides networks don't wait for contacts to actually end before starting to negotiate the next contract. They typically start negotiations months before the contract ends, especially with their main cast members. So AMC and Gimple already know who contract won't be renewed or extended early in the season and will have the time lay the groundwork for the character's departure and film the death scene before the actor leaves and becomes unavailable.

 

That's all very reasonable.  My distrust of them colored my perceptions.  lol

[ae2]

Sounds like it isn't going down this way, but I was really hoping that Carol was going to take over Michonne's plot from the comics. The Ezekiel stuff could go to someone else. It would be happening a little early, but I don't think that's a problem.

[Morrigan2575]

I really, really hate the idea of another freaking tease.  If they're going to kill a major character have the balls to do it and not tease it and then wait for fan reactions...it'll probably end up being Aaron in the end.  Unless there are contract negotiations going on and they're just waiting to see who won't resign.  Meh, I hope those spoilers are wrong or just hiding the reveal because that's a whole lot of BS after this season.

[The Mighty Peanut]

 

I expect to hear Rick yelling as the screen goes black: "They're screwing with the wrong people."

 

I hope this time he says FUCKING. F-U-C-K-I-N-G. I want to bold that and put it in 24-point font but I'm at work. Does anyone know if Maggie miscarries in the comics? I thought she had a little boy and named him after Hershel. I actually stopped reading after Glenn's death. It wasn't a storm-off type of thing--I just needed a break, and it turned out to be an extremely long break. I was very affected by his comic death. There's no lack of brutality on this series, and obviously these aren't real people, but that death hit me particularly hard. 

 

 

Well, I do care about the fate of Jon Snow but I hate to make comparisons between the shows. Different stories and different show runners. I prefer to judge each show on its on merits.

 

Don't worry, he's alive. I have not read a single GoT spoiler and I don't read the books but I know he's alive and he's the real lord of light. I know it like I know pizza is awesome and blue is my favorite color. It simply IS. No obviously dead body, no dead guy. And even sometimes with an obviously dead body they're only mostly dead. 

Edited March 23, 2016 by The Mighty Peanut

[Ocean Chick]

Today. 1:31 am

 

I don't usually read spoilers, but I came across these against my better wishes (grrrr) and oh boy, if they're true, that's the most short-sighted move I've even seen, from a promotional point of view. That means that they won't be able to tease/promote/hype anything regarding Rick, Daryl, Michonne, Carl, Glenn OR Maggie, and that's like 80% of their main cast; the trailer for season 7 will have to be only Carol, Morgan, Sasha and Judith, with some Negan in complete isolation;

 

As they are leaving us with a very wounded Carol wanting to die, I'd say that they can't tease us with shots of Carol in the trailer either.  So now we're cut down to Morgan Sasha and Judith.  Not much of a trailer, is it?  Maybe it'll just be Judith with her red Solo cups.

 

I'm just so confused as to what they could be thinking with this line of thought, having seen the reaction to the Glenn non-death tease.  This show is quickly working it's way off the Must See tv list.  I might start just doing the on demand thing, if I read a recap that sounds interesting, and skip any that sound boring.

[Pete Martell]

As they are leaving us with a very wounded Carol wanting to die, I'd say that they can't tease us with shots of Carol in the trailer either.  So now we're cut down to Morgan Sasha and Judith.  Not much of a trailer, is it?  Maybe it'll just be Judith with her red Solo cups.

 

Other spoilers seem to have a better fate for her (she and Morgan going off with new characters on horseback).

[piequinn35]

I really, really hate the idea of another freaking tease.  If they're going to kill a major character have the balls to do it and not tease it and then wait for fan reactions...it'll probably end up being Aaron in the end.  Unless there are contract negotiations going on and they're just waiting to see who won't resign.  Meh, I hope those spoilers are wrong or just hiding the reveal because that's a whole lot of BS after this season.

do they want an internet poll, whose head do you want to be bashed? 

!@#$%ng shitty shitty shitty

[Eyes High]

TSDF has come out and has said that Carol and Morgan do not meet in 6x15, as STD claimed, that Carol is not shot, and that Morgan does not get a horse. There does appear to be agreement as to some sort of Carol/Morgan meeting happening towards the end of the season, but TSDF is adamant that it won't happen until 6x16. Stay tuned.

Edited March 23, 2016 by Eyes High

[Caelicola]

Off topic, but every time I see STD it takes me a minute to get to Spoil The Dead from it; I think Sexually Transmitted Disease, and think to myself "that's a harsh nickname to give someone just because you don't like their spoilers".

That said, my fingers are crossed that most of what they've reported gets corrected.

[GreyBunny]

After all of the fake-outs and teases just kill Glenn and be done with it.  Or Daryl, or Abe, or whoever, but probably Glenn.  I really don't have the patience for this stupid cliffhanger crap. 

[slade3]

I think generally TSDF >>> STD in terms of accuracy, so I would wait for TSDF to weigh in on 6x15 and 6x16 before taking these spoilers as fact. It looks like we're going to get some clarification on what's going on with Carol and Morgan, since it's highly unlikely that both TSDF and STD's stories on Carol/Morgan are 100% correct.

 

TSDF has confirmed Sasha is riding in the RV with Rick and the gang. StD does not have Sasha as part of the group in the RV. That may seem like a tiny difference, but I'm hoping it means StD's spoilers are off and we aren't getting the cliffhanger.

 

This cliffhanger business sounds so much like speculation I've read by so many posters on various boards these past weeks. And it seems like a bad move on the show's part. As someone already noted above, this is a big moment in the comics so even unspoiled viewers who don't read the comics know something's coming - why end it with a cliffhanger?

[Caelicola]

Argh, so the season 7 trailer wouldn't even have Sasha either?! Man, it is really gonna be 6 minutes of dark with flashes of Negan's face, whacking noises and Judith playing with solo cups if the cliffhanger thing is true, isn't it.