S02.07 Part VII

[Door County Cherry]

Airs 9/12/2018

Quote

Heather and Ambrose search for Julian. 

[cuppasun]

This is a heads up, just in case:

On my Tivo, connected to Xfinity, the listing for this week's episode is titled correctly "Part VII"--but the description is for last season's episode of the same title. So Tivo doesn't recognize it as a new episode. I set it to record manually, assuming it's a listing mistake, since next week's ep, correctly registering as new, is "Part VIII".

I don't do social media stuff, so if anyone checks here beforetimes, you might want to spread the word so to help reduce disappointment when/if folks find their DVRs haven't caught the ep.

Back to the regularly scheduled day...

[LoveLeigh]

I watch every episode and have no idea why. This is horrible. It is preposterous. The script is poorly written and the acting is awful. Will I watch the final episode? Yes. I must be a masochist. 

[slothgirl]

Poor Julian... that kid's gonna need decades of therapy.

Unless of course what Vera said in Ep 1 is true and that he is "so far beyond anything we could imagine"

Whatever THAT means.

The only person left for Marin to be phoning was the Beacon, right? Or Heather's Dad? Maybe he's known all along that she's been alive the whole time?

Julians' father, who ever he might be, is the puzzle piece that will tie it all together.. we're supposed to be assuming it was the Beacon... which makes me suspicious that it wasn't.

I'm still waiting for the tie in between Heather's mother's funeral 15 years ago and what they say about Vera when searching her background in Ep 2 or 3... Born in Texas, worked for Interlogic in the 90's, pops up in Oregon working for a non-profit, and then "nothing for the last 15 years.. she's a ghost". A lot of stuff happened 15 years ago. I think that was also when Carmen Bell's malpractice suit was filed.

Heather ruined it all for Marin years ago... something happened between the 2 of them that they still haven't shown us. Marin is totally into Heather and the homosexual experimentation... and then she isn't.

And then there's the classmate who hanged himself around the same time all this was going on after "visiting his girlfriend" at Mosswood. An offhand remark in ep1 that never comes up again. But in this series, nothing is a throwaway. Can't remember his name, because Marin also has a "Why can't I break up with Caleb?" line in our 1st scene with her.

Edited September 13, 2018 by slothgirl

[torqy]

Mrs. Torqy predicts that

Spoiler

Jay O. Sanders is Julian's father. I originally thought Heather's father, but Sanders character (police chief?) is acting more sketchy.

[Irlandesa]

OH hell, I liked this episode.  We learned a lot about the past and while non of it was truly shocking, I didn't see the Marin's murder coming.  They have a lot to explain in the last ep.

[torqy]

2 hours ago, slothgirl said:

Julians' father, who ever he might be, is the puzzle piece that will tie it all together.. we're supposed to be assuming it was the Beacon... which makes me suspicious that it wasn't.

 

My theory is that Vera killed the Beacon because he intended to sacrifice Julian as they did with the calf.

[AnimeMania]

I am surprised that the Mosswood members were not more upset that Julian killed Bess and Adam, since they knew Bess for much longer than they knew Julian.

I am not sure where Marin was getting all of that money she was spending from. 

Something tells me they are going to leave a lot of loose ends (for me at least) when they wrap everything up in the next episode. I wonder if we should make a list of all the questions we want answered in the final episode and see how many they touch on.

Is the Beacon dead and how did he die.

What happened between Detective Ambrose and Vera in the cabin.

What happened between Heather and Marin right after Heather's mother died.

Why is everybody in the town acting so weird. Are they members of Mosswood.

Who is Julian's father.

Is there really a Purple Lake with lots of dead bodies?

If they answer these, I will probably be satisfied.

[Simba122504]

17 hours ago, slothgirl said:

Poor Julian... that kid's gonna need decades of therapy.

Unless of course what Vera said in Ep 1 is true and that he is "so far beyond anything we could imagine"

Whatever THAT means.

The only person left for Marin to be phoning was the Beacon, right? Or Heather's Dad? Maybe he's known all along that she's been alive the whole time?

Julians' father, who ever he might be, is the puzzle piece that will tie it all together.. we're supposed to be assuming it was the Beacon... which makes me suspicious that it wasn't.

I'm still waiting for the tie in between Heather's mother's funeral 15 years ago and what they say about Vera when searching her background in Ep 2 or 3... Born in Texas, worked for Interlogic in the 90's, pops up in Oregon working for a non-profit, and then "nothing for the last 15 years.. she's a ghost". A lot of stuff happened 15 years ago. I think that was also when Carmen Bell's malpractice suit was filed.

Heather ruined it all for Marin years ago... something happened between the 2 of them that they still haven't shown us. Marin is totally into Heather and the homosexual experimentation... and then she isn't.

And then there's the classmate who hanged himself around the same time all this was going on after "visiting his girlfriend" at Mosswood. An offhand remark in ep1 that never comes up again. But in this series, nothing is a throwaway. Can't remember his name, because Marin also has a "Why can't I break up with Caleb?" line in our 1st scene with her.

 

His father was the Beacon. The actors favor in my opinion and I think it was done on purpose. The real question is where is his body? Vera told Ambrose, he[the founder] just left. Cult leaders don't just leave. That's a mystery we won't ever get answers to. Julian is lost cause if he just goes around killing people when he gets scared. None of these people he killed posed a threat to him. Vera is one of the worst parental figures ever. No child should ever be allowed in her custody. Not today, not tomorrow, not 100 years from now. There's no way in hell, Julian would be allowed to go straight back home after this. His entire history and upbringing so far would be studied. His violent outbursts, everything.  Vera's piss poor insane parenting. Something is wrong with that kid. Next time he's on street would be when he's a young man. And let's hope he's still not going around killing people. *Even if it turns out he didn't kill them, he still needs help which a normal court would give him.* 

Edited September 13, 2018 by Simba122504
Adding more thoughts

[TomGirl]

5 hours ago, Simba122504 said:

Julian is lost cause if he just goes around killing people when he gets scared.

We don’t know that Julian killed Marin.  I’m not even sure he killed Bess and Adam, at least not knowingly.

[Lamima]

I think Julian's real dad is Heather's dad and that is who Marin called and likely who killed her.

[Neurochick]

I kept going back and forth between this show (which I LOVE) and AHS: Apocalypse and I couldn't tell you which one was more fucked up. 

[luvapickle]

10 hours ago, slothgirl said:

Poor Julian... that kid's gonna need decades of therapy.

Unless of course what Vera said in Ep 1 is true and that he is "so far beyond anything we could imagine"

Whatever THAT means.

The only person left for Marin to be phoning was the Beacon, right? Or Heather's Dad? Maybe he's known all along that she's been alive the whole time?

Julians' father, who ever he might be, is the puzzle piece that will tie it all together.. we're supposed to be assuming it was the Beacon... which makes me suspicious that it wasn't.

I'm still waiting for the tie in between Heather's mother's funeral 15 years ago and what they say about Vera when searching her background in Ep 2 or 3... Born in Texas, worked for Interlogic in the 90's, pops up in Oregon working for a non-profit, and then "nothing for the last 15 years.. she's a ghost". A lot of stuff happened 15 years ago. I think that was also when Carmen Bell's malpractice suit was filed.

Heather ruined it all for Marin years ago... something happened between the 2 of them that they still haven't shown us. Marin is totally into Heather and the homosexual experimentation... and then she isn't.

And then there's the classmate who hanged himself around the same time all this was going on after "visiting his girlfriend" at Mosswood. An offhand remark in ep1 that never comes up again. But in this series, nothing is a throwaway. Can't remember his name, because Marin also has a "Why can't I break up with Caleb?" line in our 1st scene with her.

Well judging from the finale next week, the sheriff has something hidden when Ambrose yells at him about keeping something from the investigation.

I also think...it's a small town. There's a theory that the smaller the town, the more secrets there are.

[SunnyBeBe]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I kept going back and forth between this show (which I LOVE) and AHS: Apocalypse and I couldn't tell you which one was more fucked up. 

Me too!  

Detective Ambrose seems to talk without moving his lips much and the words are garbled.  I find that frustrating. I will watch the finale though, I'm not sure why. 

[ferjy]

10 hours ago, Simba122504 said:

His father was the Beacon. The actors favor in my opinion and I think it was done on purpose. The real question is where is his body? Vera told Ambrose, he[the founder] just left. Cult leaders don't just leave. That's a mystery we won't ever get answers to. Julian is lost cause if he just goes around killing people when he gets scared. None of these people he killed posed a threat to him. Vera is one of the worst parental figures ever. No child should ever be allowed in her custody. Not today, not tomorrow, not 100 years from now. There's no way in hell, Julian would be allowed to go straight back home after this. His entire history and upbringing so far would be studied. His violent outbursts, everything.  Vera's piss poor insane parenting. Something is wrong with that kid. Next time he's on street would be when he's a young man. And let's hope he's still not going around killing people. 

I know! My first reaction was How many people is this kid going to kill?? But it may turn out to be a red herring. 

[TattleTeeny]

11 hours ago, torqy said:

My theory is that Vera killed the Beacon because he intended to sacrifice Julian as they did with the calf.

I'm now thinking that Marin came back to make sure that happens? Pardon me if that's a super-obvious guess; I am on no sleep.

I have no opinion on whether Heather's dad is Julian's dad but there was that weird scene of Marin walking down the dark road and he got out of the car and talked to her about something not disclosed to us (that I recall).

Edited September 13, 2018 by TattleTeeny

[Iguessnot]

7 hours ago, TomGirl said:

We don’t know that Julian killed Marin.  I’m not even sure he killed Bess and Adam, at least not knowingly.

Especially since Vera and the guy with the ponytail figured out where Marin was headed.

Why did Marin, twice, entice Julian with that pistol? First she takes it off the dashboard, then puts it closer to him in an open area of her purse. Then in the cabin, she pulls it out of her purse, puts it on the sofa, then walks away.

[Iguessnot]

13 hours ago, Simba122504 said:

His father was the Beacon. The actors favor in my opinion and I think it was done on purpose. The real question is where is his body? Vera told Ambrose, he[the founder] just left. Cult leaders don't just leave. That's a mystery we won't ever get answers to. Julian is lost cause if he just goes around killing people when he gets scared. None of these people he killed posed a threat to him. Vera is one of the worst parental figures ever. No child should ever be allowed in her custody. Not today, not tomorrow, not 100 years from now. There's no way in hell, Julian would be allowed to go straight back home after this. His entire history and upbringing so far would be studied. His violent outbursts, everything.  Vera's piss poor insane parenting. Something is wrong with that kid. Next time he's on street would be when he's a young man. And let's hope he's still not going around killing people. 

Besides lying about his runaway, detached mother, I don't think we've seen her bad parenting. We know Mosswood is sketchy, we know Julian is a mess for unknown reasons, but we haven't been shown how he was raised. We do know that Vera protected Julian from day one and she appears to love him. We'll have to wait to the last episode to see how much of a villain she it. I'm intrigued.

[Simba122504]

8 hours ago, TomGirl said:

We don’t know that Julian killed Marin.  I’m not even sure he killed Bess and Adam, at least not knowingly.

The only people in the room were Julian & Marin. Who else could it be? I hate when television series and films turn everyone into the Flash. How much time passed from Marin being on the phone, Julian looking at the gun, then Harry and Heather showing up and finding Marin dead on the ground? Vera and her people have superpowers. I mean it's very possible on a tv show but it is an annoying trope. The kid still has a lot of issues and would never be sent straight home without those issues being treated by professionals. Children are born innocent. Their environment plays the most important role in their behavior. Julian wasn't in a great environment.  Vera would never win custody back for many reasons. 

Edited September 13, 2018 by Simba122504

[TomGirl]

57 minutes ago, Simba122504 said:

Who else could it be?

How about the person Marin called on the phone?

[Iguessnot]

1 hour ago, Simba122504 said:

The only people in the room were Julian & Marin. Who else could it be? I hate when television series and films turn everyone into the Flash. How much time passed from Marin being on the phone, Julian looking at the gun, then Harry and Heather showing up and finding Marin dead on the ground? Vera and her people have superpowers. I mean it's very possible on a tv show but it is an annoying trope. The kid still has a lot of issues and would never be sent straight home without those issues being treated by professionals. Children are born innocent. Their environment plays the most important role in their behavior. Julian wasn't in a great environment.  Vera would never win custody back for many reasons. 

Vera and the ponytail guy were headed there. 

[Simba122504]

2 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

Vera and the ponytail guy were headed there. 

I know but they sure got there really fast. Which is a common trope. Even if Julian didn't do it, we all agree he needs help. And that BC Vera has is a forged document. She didn't go through any court to legally adopt him. 

[Sinner Question]

And why didn't Marin get farther away after snatching Julian?  I was wondering this thinking, if it was me, and I just snatched a kid, I'd get as far away as possible.  At 50 mph, 8 hours of driving would put me 400 miles away.  But when the van was found, it must have been just outside of Keller.  It couldn't have been sitting there long before it was located as Marin and Julian saw the first police officer who found it.  I guess this could have been pretty far from Keller, I didn't take notice to whether the first police officer was from the Keller police dept.  But Heather would be getting pretty far outside her jurisdiction if that were the case.  Wish I could go back and see that scene again to see if it was Keller police that found the van.  Does anyone know?

 

If they were still close to Keller, it could be because she was meeting someone there with Julian.  But why would she have originally been having him brought to Niagara Falls?

[IDreamofJoaquin]

Julian really bothers me. 

Hannah Gross plays the same type of character in Mindhunter.

 

Well, that pretty much sums up my commentary for this episode because unless this has an incredible wrap up for next week this series was boring and has a lot of unanswered questions. 

[Jextella]

Just a thought....early on, they determine Bess and Adam are heading south and not north to Niagra Falls.

Marin is in Canada and was heading there with Julian.  

They are going in opposite directions.  Maybe Bess and Adam were decoys set up by Vera, i.e. promise to deliver Julian but send him elsewhere to keep him away from Marin. Or, maybe they are taking him away from both Vera and Marin.

Based on how season 1 ended, I suspect that we don't know squat about what went down between Heather and Marin.  Whatever happened is what drove Marin to where she is today, and we won't find out until the finale.  Ambrose is on it; that's for sure. 

I think there was some kind of abuse in Marin's home given that she never wanted to be there.  The answer lie with Marin and Heather.  The Mosswood stuff is just side-story.  

[Lamima]

I think Marin hung around Heather's house and Heather's dad was a pedo. He may be part of the Mosswood stuff or just a creepy pedo. But he had that strange convo with Marin on the road and then Marin ran off to Mosswood. I don't think Heather knows. Heather just loved Marin and wanted more than friendship. But also, Heather's dad was trying to keep her and then Ambrose from really investigating. Started off as goofy nice guy but then got kinda dark about it with Ambrose.  Ambrose took note but Heather seems clueless. Probably because of her infatuation with Marin.

So, thanks to above poster who mentioned this, I also think maybe Marin wanted to sacrifice Julian. Maybe send him over Niagara Falls. So maybe Vera got there and killed her. Maybe she can communicate telepathically with Julian and had him do it. Or maybe his dad, Heather's dad OR the beacon, arrived and killed her and took Julian off to sacrifice. If Heather's dad is Ju'ian's dad, it could just be that he doesn't want his dirty deeds exposed and he killed her and plans to kill Julian too. And maybe Vera and Company arrived in time to see him leaving with Julian and they are on his tail and will try to rescue Julian. I see Vera as truly loving Julian. And this Mosswood stuff may be a side story and the real story is pedo guy.

Edited September 14, 2018 by Lamima

[Iguessnot]

13 hours ago, Simba122504 said:

I know but they sure got there really fast. Which is a common trope. Even if Julian didn't do it, we all agree he needs help. And that BC Vera has is a forged document. She didn't go through any court to legally adopt him. 

Marin was travelling by bus, so that would slow her progress compared to someone driving direct. They also showed Julian freaking out in the bus, requiring them to disembark,, so there was an additional delay. I'll have to watch again to recall how they actually arrived at their destination.

[Iguessnot]

On 9/12/2018 at 7:08 PM, cuppasun said:

This is a heads up, just in case:

On my Tivo, connected to Xfinity, the listing for this week's episode is titled correctly "Part VII"--but the description is for last season's episode of the same title. So Tivo doesn't recognize it as a new episode. I set it to record manually, assuming it's a listing mistake, since next week's ep, correctly registering as new, is "Part VIII".

I don't do social media stuff, so if anyone checks here beforetimes, you might want to spread the word so to help reduce disappointment when/if folks find their DVRs haven't caught the ep.

Back to the regularly scheduled day...

Just wanted to mention that my TIVO started recording the episode at midnight. It also missed recording the new Attack on Titan last week. Luckily I switched to the channel five minutes in, and initiated a manual recording.

[tennisgurl]

At first I assumed that Julian killed Marin, but now I am not so sure. They didnt show him anywhere, and where else would he be now? Did he run off, or did the person she called have something to do with it? Right now, my theory is that the Beacon was killed by Vera to protect Julian, and that the person Marin called (and Julian's bio dad) is Heather's father. He had a weird vibe with Marin a few times in flashbacks, and he just seems like he knows something that he isnt sharing. 

Even if Mosswood isnt as creepy as it was with the Beacon in charge, that place is still sketchy, and no way should Julian be back there. The kid is deeply unwell, even if he didnt kill Marin. And even if people stop trying to kidnap him for five minutes. 

There are lots of questions I still want answered, especially smaller plot threads. What happened to the quarterback who killed himself after going to Mosswood for a day? Is there really a like filled with dead bodies? If not, hat was going on with the mentally ill woman? Whats up with the rock? How many people in town are involved with Mosswood?

[slothgirl]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

What happened to the quarterback who killed himself after going to Mosswood for a day?

I'm wondering if that quarterback was Julain's father and the "grilfriend" he was visint was Marin.

Edited September 14, 2018 by slothgirl

[Andromeda]

I want to know more about the cult's beliefs. We had that whole episode with Ambrose wandering around in the forest, but nothing yet has explained what the metronome stuff is about, what the shadow person being created by lies is all about, and what Julian has really been taught. He believed that the two people he killed would "return." How and why did he think that? I need more! And I bet I won't get it. I feel like I missed an episode that filled in all of these blanks, but I've been a regular viewer.

Edited September 14, 2018 by Andromeda

[slothgirl]

12 minutes ago, Andromeda said:

I want to know more about the cult's beliefs. We had that whole episode with Ambrose wandering around in the forest, but nothing yet has explained what the metronome stuff is about, what the shadow person being created by lies is all about, and what Julian has really been taught. He believed that the two people he killed would "return." How and why did he think that? I need more! And I bet I won't get it. I feel like I missed an episode that filled in all of these blanks, but I've been a regular viewer.

 

I don't see how they can wrap it all up in a one more hour. They've left too much hanging. They'll have to have a VERY tight episode for the finale without any filler.

And I'm pretty sure I'm gonna be disappointed. They're going to have to resort to a lot of verbal exposition crammed in and it won't feel at all organic to the overall storytelling.

Edited September 14, 2018 by slothgirl

[Kiss my mutt]

I’m thinking ponytail guy (Terry?) was involved in the deaths. We see him at the hotel and then he’s headed to the reservation. 

I mever considered Heather’s father to be Julian’s father. Interesting thought. And YUCK!

They really need two hours to wrap this up or an epilogue. I have a feeling I’m going to pretty pissed with the finale. 

Edited September 15, 2018 by Kiss my mutt
Added content

[Jextella]

I'm leaning toward Julian killing all 3.  With Bess and Adam, he said something like they needed to go back to the beginning (I assume this has to do with the maze thing).    They and Marin were breaking whatever rules there are at Mosswood and needed to start over.

We haven't seen any indication of Julian "converting" or breaking away from the cult.  He feels guilt, perhaps, but he was trained to think a certain way and I don't think a bit of guilt is going to change how he views things.  The closest we get is when he tries telling himself Marin isn't real after Ambrose suggests it.   He didn't kill Bess and Adam out of self-defense.  This may be the case with Marin, but even here, I'm not so sure.  He could have run off when Marin called Heather, and so on.  He doesn't seem to be scared being in her care after what is a very short amount of time.

Julian was propped up as some sort of special being in the Mosswood community.   If killing is a means of bringing people back to the beginning because of some Mossword indiscretion, it seems like this might be normal fare for Julian and Vera - or maybe the Beacon if he's still around.

When he turned the lights off on Ambrose, I think we saw a bit of that, Perhaps.

[slothgirl]

Continuing a thought process from a post I was writing in the episode 1 thread but would be inappropriate there:

If there is a season 3, I hope they change the way they tell the story. They let plot twists and uncertainty of what's going on drive the story despite the rich psychology of the characters that could be explored. We still don't know any more about who Vera is or what motivates her than we did when she walked into the police station and said "I am his mother" in Episode 1. We don't know anything more about Julian. We still can only guess about Marin. We still can't tell whether Heather's Dad is a good guy or a bad guy. We have a plethora of minor or unseen characters that we know might be important (like Heather's Mom and some random kid in high school that killed himself) and yet we know nothing about them either. Have we even ever been told Heather's mother's name or how she died? But a hell of a lot of stuff seemed to happen around the TIME she died.

So in addition to not knowing yet (with only 1 hour to go) WHAT happened, we don't know why or who or when or what or the overall psychology of the major players. I don't like watching almost all of a mystery and still not knowing more about a character than I did in the character's 1st appearance. We don't even friggin know WHO is dead or alive! (Beacon anyone?) 

They really went overboard this season keeping EVERYTHING a huge question/secret/mystery and constantly introducing new ones. At least in Season 1, we got good scenes of the actual personalities of the killer and her sister, and the dynamic that existed between them, as well as just WHAT the religious influence was. This season has been nothing but a constant tease of questions. Marin is finally actually dead, and we still don't know who she really was or whether the extensive "look" we got into her motivation has any bearing on reality or was a lie. We don't know if ANYTHING that has come out MOST of the characters' mouths was true or a lie. The only reliable narrator we have at all is Heather. Maybe.

As for whether Julian killed Bess and Adam... I have no reason to doubt that he did. I thought the whole premise of the show was that we know who the murderer is, but we don't know why they killed. It's a better story if they don't twist at the end with a "Surprise! It was actually ponytail guy!" That's part of my frustration with the show's format this season (even more than last)... they set it up as a psychological thriller because "whodunnit" is already determined, but then they ignore all the potential in that area and go for the easy out of plot development and giving us nothing until the last episode. It seems like the show needs to give at least ONE fact that stays true around all the other red herrings and plot twists. Or do I need to start speculating that Adam, Bess, or Marin aren't even dead at all too? MAYBE he didn't kill Marin, because that's not part of the premise. But I'm fine with it being him there too. If it turns out Julian didn't kill anyone, I'm gonna be pretty disgusted.

I'm also really sick of commercials for The Purge.

/end rant.

Edited September 18, 2018 by slothgirl
grammar can be a wonderful thing... or not

[Mackey]

How could Marin and Heather’s dad produce a child who looks like Julian? Heather and Marin, maybe. That seems unlikely, however.

[LoveLeigh]

I loved the first episode, but all the episodes for me were poorly written nonsense. So much was total fiction which did not even adhere to any judicial process and rules. The series became preposterous. The whole Mosswood thing seemed ridiculous and the whole Esalen concept of naming every emotion and instinct was in the 1970s. 

I will watch the final episode tonight but expect to be more disappointed than shocked. 

[SunnyBeBe]

On 9/14/2018 at 9:03 PM, Kiss my mutt said:

I’m thinking ponytail guy (Terry?) was involved in the deaths. We see him at the hotel and then he’s headed to the reservation. 

I mever considered Heather’s father to be Julian’s father. Interesting thought. And YUCK!

They really need two hours to wrap this up or an epilogue. I have a feeling I’m going to pretty pissed with the finale. 

Sorry, but, I've missed a bunch of episodes. Trying to catch up before finale.  Have they shown who Marin's father is? I recall the sister at the convent said her father had come there a day earlier and that he had a pony tail.  Is that the same ponytail guy that was at the inn where the couple was killed or a different ponytail guy?  And, did Heather and Ambrose know who she was talking about?

[Minaboo]

I DVRed the first seven eps of this season and started binge-watching them last night. I am all caught up now with episodes and with PTV commentary. Can’t wait to see the finale tonight!

Random thoughts:

The Beacon is most sincerely dead. He is also the father of Julian, whom he allowed to live to become the group’s perfect scapegoat. Good on Vera (truth) for weeding Beacon out.

I think that Heather’s father is also Marin’s father. This explains his unusual way of talking to her the night she ran away, which I didn’t think was normal but also didn’t think was loverly. I think she may have known for  a long time he is her father and that is the main reason she wanted to be part of Heather’s family, spending as much time as she could with them. Heather, not knowing the true family relationship, fell in love with Marin, and their father tried to protect Heather, pushing Marin away from her. When I think back on the things that Marin said to Heather, and the times her father told Heather that he always put her first, he really was putting her first and protecting her from the knowledge that she had sexual feelings for her sister. 

Still not sure who Marin called at the end. IMO it can’t be the Beacon. I suspect it is someone we already have met, like Glen Fisher. I also suspect it will have to with who owns the commune’s land and who’s heir to it now that Beacon is out of the picture. I will be really pissed if it is the sheriff or the prosecutor.

I don’t want to believe Julian planned the killing of Adam and Bess. I’d rather believe that pony-tailed guy gave Julian the jimsonweed with instructions. I also don’t believe Julian killed Marin, I can make a case for pony-tailed guy/Vera or Fisher instead. I’m guessing Julian tried to use the gun to defend himself/Marin/Vera though.

I’d didn’t watch the first season, having read the description of the plot elsewhere. I am glad I was able to binge this season, not sure I would have enjoyed it as much stretched out over two months. Love the cast and acting!

[slothgirl]

42 minutes ago, Minaboo said:

I think that Heather’s father is also Marin’s father. This explains his unusual way of talking to her the night she ran away, which I didn’t think was normal but also didn’t think was loverly. I think she may have known for  a long time he is her father and that is the main reason she wanted to be part of Heather’s family, spending as much time as she could with them. Heather, not knowing the true family relationship, fell in love with Marin, and their father tried to protect Heather, pushing Marin away from her. When I think back on the things that Marin said to Heather, and the times her father told Heather that he always put her first, he really was putting her first and protecting her from the knowledge that she had sexual feelings for her sister. 

I have been on board with this theory for awhile. I never got a feeling that Heather's Dad was Julian's father (with Marin). I wondered if he was Marin's father.

I disagree that the Beacon is dead. They went to too much trouble to suggest that he was. So I expect the twist is that he isn't. It wouldn't be much of a twist if he IS dead. Although if they wanted to be REALLY tricky, they might be overt about him probably being dead, just to make us think he probably isn't and then he is... Does anyone think the writers are that clever?

Have we ever gotten a good look at ponytail guy's face? I don't think so. That's suspicious to me and who he really is will become important.

On the other hand, I don't believe the Beacon just "left" of his own accord. That would be out of character for a sociopathic cult leader.

And then there's that perfectly maintained cabin of his that still has his picture over the mantle. Does Vera still revere him enough to keep it that way? WOuld she out of a feeling of guilt for killing him? Or is he still shacking up there?

I'm questioning how much Vera actually objected to the abuses going on. I find it hard to believe that a bunch of men accustomed to being able to harm women as "therapy" (including Vera herself) would have turned away when she said that the session with Marin was cancelled and that the Beacon was away. I've wanted to give Vera the benefit of the doubt, but that scene really didn't ring true for me. She had more power than she's letting on to Ambrose. That's the only thing that protected her and Marin that night, assuming her story is even true. NO WAY those men would have let a woman call the shots unless they had reason to fear her.

I'm also wondering about Heather's Mom. Normally I wouldn't bother wondering about the race of various characters, but they rather deliberately cast a black actress as Heather, with a white father. Julian is the only other character besides the DA who looks like he could be mixed race. In any other show, I wouldn't expect it to mean anything. But this whole show is about parents and kids, so details like that about Heather's Mom seem like they might be significant. I like all 3 actors a lot (Jack, Julian, and Heather) so maybe they just cast the best people for the roles. But.. maybe the race of the characters was a deliberate choice for reasons we don't know yet.

Edited September 19, 2018 by slothgirl

[SunnyBeBe]

Good points. I'm on a mission to finish all by the finale. Moving fast.........  I am suspicious of Glen Fisher. I think that's his name. His family had owned the Moss wood property for generations.  When Ambrose looked at those old photos of their family, when he broke into his house, there was an photo he said of Glen's grandfather (quick shot of him standing by the sacred rock) and he seemed to have dark features.  That makes me wonder.  But, if Beacon and all on the commune thought Beacon was the father of Marin's baby, how would Glen know any different and why would he care? 

Beacon seemed to be very intent on doing what he did and not inclined to leave voluntarily.  I can't imagine him walking out of there. 

Did the doctor give all the women at Moss Wood hysterectomies? If not, how would all of those women never get pregnant, except for Marine? Hard to envision they would have been diligent with contraceptive, considering the abuse and basic existence. 

Edited September 20, 2018 by SunnyBeBe