Catelynn (and Tyler)

[CofCinci]

19 minutes ago, Brooklynista said:

I would bet mone that these two dont even smoke quality weed. All the money they have and theyre probably smoking dirt weed laced w oregano.  Nothing about these two is top notch. 

They have "cards" (prescriptions).  Smoking the good stuff, which is probably why they can't get off the couch.

[guilfoyleatpp]

19 minutes ago, Brooklynista said:

I would bet mone that these two dont even smoke quality weed. All the money they have and theyre probably smoking dirt weed laced w oregano.  Nothing about these two is top notch. 

And then they would congratulate themselves for smoking shit weed because it's no as potent.  Therefore they're not as addicted.

Also, I shudder to think what kind of shit weed is wandering around Indiana. 

[CofCinci]

1 hour ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

Also, I shudder to think what kind of shit weed is wandering around Indiana. 

Indiana's border to the west, Illinois, and border to the north, Michigan, are medicinal marijuana states.  Recently, Ohio, their border to the east, passed medicinal marijuana laws and will begin to offer in the next year.  It is very easy for Indiana residents to get their own high-quality cannabis, either through friends/family with "prescriptions" or by getting a PO box in the neighboring states.  Don't get caught.  As for other drugs, some cartels operate out of Chicago, so the route from Chicago to Dayton, OH/Cincinnati/OH via Indiana has brought very potent drugs into Indiana.  I coordinate the VA-side of the drug/mental health treatment for Veterans in SE Indiana through their new veterans court, so I'm all too familiar with Indiana's drug crisis.

As a therapist, I can see some short-term benefit for marijuana to be used as an assistive aide for those with anxiety, depression, or PTSD to help them complete an evidence-based treatment (get you out of the house to practice in vivo exposure/committed action assignments/etc.), but for Catelynn and Tyler medical-grade marijuana harms more than it helps.  It is pretty much the worst thing thing Catelynn has ever done in her life -- and this is coming from the POV of a mental health professional who is open to recreational and therapeutic use of drugs - because (in laymen terms) she is fucking with her Amygdala regulation:  Fight (Fighter) - Flight (Runner)- Freeze (Freezer).  Catelynn is 'freezer'.  All the smoking is just going to make her even more immobile.  A tiny bit - paired with in vivo exposure/committed action - would be beneficial/therapeutic.  Spark up, Cate.  You're just making yourself more of a lazy lump - the fulfilling prophecy.

p.s.  She would never run to her horse and gallop away while having a panic attack because she is a freezer and not a runner.

Edited April 22, 2017 by CofCinci

[msblossom]

On 4/20/2017 at 6:45 PM, bethster2000 said:

Regarding Cate's greasy bangs: dry shampoo should be her best friend.  When I was in the grips of a suicidal depression last summer, sometimes dry shampoo was all that I could manage to make myself somewhat presentable for the outside world.  Now I use it because I love the results, especially on my bangs, which can get a little oily as the day goes on.  There are a lot of great brands out there at varying price points.  I use the "Not Your Mother's" dry shampoo and it's about five bucks at Walgreens.  A lifesaver.  I even keep a can of the stuff in my car, for greasy bang emergencies.

I know what you're saying and I agree. I also love dry shampoo on clean hair for volume.

The problem is Cate doesn't care if she's presentable to the outside world. She needs to make showering part of her daily routine. I get that she's depressed and it's typical to neglect your hygiene, but one of the things most therapists urge is to force yourself to take a shower each day because it is the starting point for self care. Everyone feels better after a shower, in a way it's therapeutic.  It's not like she has to rush around in the morning to show up for work at 8:00 and doesn't have the time to spend 20 minutes showering and getting dressed in clean clothes each day. Baby steps. She needs routine.   

[jacksgirl]

Long time public school teacher here. I now teach prek- 4 years olds in a public school. Have been around early childhood education for years. Many churches/community centers offer MDO (Mothers Day Out) programs. They are often  2 to 3 days a week. The kids sing, play, etc. These are super for gaining social-emotional skills and fun. For profit centers, La Petite KindeCare, whatever Chelsea used in S. D. can be good depending on how much parents pay and other factors. Workers are generally paid poorly and there is high turnover among providers. Tyler and Cate should investigate Mommy and Me centers nearby home. Once or twice a week, moms (or dads) take their child for a few hours and stay and play, bring snacks, socialize, etc. It's dirt cheap if any cost at all, and so good for parents and kids. I did it with my sons in Wisconsin and made good friends, got out of the house in a new city and had fun. It would require some work on Cate's part, getting out of bed, driving somewhere, etc. Early education can be so good for kids. I shudder to think how little Cate, Tyler, Jenelle, etc. investigate their options though.

Edited April 23, 2017 by jacksgirl

[EmeraldGirl]

Hell, I'll even brush baby powder through my hair for a quick volumizer. And it would really help with Cate's grease. Very little effort. 

I sent my at the time only child to preschool at age 3. The next child went at 4. By that time we were in a neighborhood with children his age. But 2 feels early to me. I know she's interacting with the others, but I don't see that need at 2. Mommy and child time was SO important to me in those days. 

[FawnLeibowitz]

Quote

 It is very easy for Indiana residents to get their own high-quality cannabis, either through friends/family with "prescriptions" or by getting a PO box in the neighboring states. 

Don't these  losers still live in Michigan?

[Caracoa1]

16 hours ago, FawnLeibowitz said:

Don't these  losers still live in Michigan?

Cate and Tyler suffer from "Big fish in a little pond Syndrome.  In their little depressed Michigan town they are hot shit!  MTV reality TV stars!

[bethster2000]

On 4/22/2017 at 7:34 AM, CofCinci said:

They have "cards" (prescriptions).  Smoking the good stuff, which is probably why they can't get off the couch.

My husband and I have our cards, too.  We get the good stuff from the local dispensary.  How on earth are they functioning at all with a little Nova at home? Husband and I are both experienced smokers and the dispensary stuff is such good quality, we can barely get off the couch after partaking.

[GreatKazu]

2 minutes ago, bethster2000 said:

My husband and I have our cards, too.  We get the good stuff from the local dispensary.  How on earth are they functioning at all with a little Nova at home? Husband and I are both experienced smokers and the dispensary stuff is such good quality, we can barely get off the couch after partaking.

It's been said on the show by them that they don't have Nova in their home for 5 days out of the week. April takes care of Nova. 

[bethster2000]

3 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

It's been said on the show by them that they don't have Nova in their home for 5 days out of the week. April takes care of Nova. 

Right!  I forgot about that.  Well, we know where their priorities lie, don't we?  Social media and herb.

[Calm81]

1 hour ago, GreatKazu said:

It's been said on the show by them that they don't have Nova in their home for 5 days out of the week. April takes care of Nova. 

Is it still 5 days of the week? Or was that just temporarily at the beginning when Cate had undiagnosed postpartum depression? I can't believe she'd (or Tyler because all the blame shouldn't be on Cate as Tyler is the parent, too, with no job preventing him from parenting full time) have Nova at Aprils that much without having a job - especially when she knows April is a terrible caretaker judging by her own childhood. I don't understand these people. 

Edited April 24, 2017 by Calm81

[GreatKazu]

Knowing those two, it is probably up to seven days with April getting a break when the MTV cameras come around. Kudos to April for potty-training Nova. 

[Emmierose]

How is it that Catelynn seems dumber now than when she was a kid?  Thinking back to the 16 and Pregnant episode where she and Tyler met Brandon and Teresa in Dawn's office, she was bright, articulate, and very directed in what it is she wanted for her daughter and for herself.  How is it that she seems to have regressed in both grammar and intelligence?  I get that pot smoking can make someone less motivated, but has it also made her dumb? Depression doesn't make you dumb either, it makes you...depressed.  She just seems so inarticulate, defensive, moody, and trashy. Dirty and greasy too.  What happened to that bright, friendly, motivated girl with the big smile and clean and shiny red hair? 

[Birdee]

Back then she was in school, had goals and was motivated. She just doesn't use her brain anymore and it's making her stupid. Kind of like how apps like Luminosity combined with things like eating healthy are supposed to improve brain function, but the exact opposite. She never does anything that makes her think and she fills herself with fat and chemicals. Seems like pretty good recipe for dumb. 

[swishandflick]

1 hour ago, Emmierose said:

How is it that Catelynn seems dumber now than when she was a kid?  Thinking back to the 16 and Pregnant episode where she and Tyler met Brandon and Teresa in Dawn's office, she was bright, articulate, and very directed in what it is she wanted for her daughter and for herself.  How is it that she seems to have regressed in both grammar and intelligence?  I get that pot smoking can make someone less motivated, but has it also made her dumb? Depression doesn't make you dumb either, it makes you...depressed.  She just seems so inarticulate, defensive, moody, and trashy. Dirty and greasy too.  What happened to that bright, friendly, motivated girl with the big smile and clean and shiny red hair? 

I think she's really damaged by not having to worry about money. I think she was motivated enough to get an education and a job if she knew she needed to do it in order to pay her bills, but she got way used to making a lot with little real work. It made her so lazy and unmotivated. When the hammer eventually comes down on these girls, Catelyn may be able to pull herself back up again. I didn't have the awful childhood she had, but I do experience depression like many others and still manage to get myself to work. It's totally possible, she just is someone who doesn't seem inwardly motivated to accomplish something.

[ginger90]

Have they mentioned their new business yet, or is it too current to be on the show?

[Caracoa1]

Their timeline seems off...Butch was thrown in jail days before Maci's early October wedding....MTV said he was in jail 20 days which would make it late October...So why then is he telling us this in Cate's new house with her dam Christmas tree up?!!

[Birdee]

I think it's too current since it seems like they just revealed the fringed stuff (purses?) in the last few weeks. They've been hinting at it for longer though, so it way work it's way into the story line. Or they may have started hinting at it when someone approached them with ready-to-sell products a few moths ago. 

[MargeGunderson]

6 hours ago, Emmierose said:

How is it that Catelynn seems dumber now than when she was a kid?  

I think part of it is all the positive attention she gets from all of her fans. They tell her how awesome she is, what a great mom, an inspiration to others, etc. even though she barely does anything. Why should she have any interests or goals if she's fabulous as is? 

[jennyplayswithfire]

On 24/04/2017 at 5:49 PM, GreatKazu said:

It's been said on the show by them that they don't have Nova in their home for 5 days out of the week. April takes care of Nova. 

That is profoundly sad. How do they justify this to themselves? Or are they just too far gone? When I see Cate with Nova I do not see a real bond. There is no connection. The child is always pulling away from her. Cate seems awkward, unfamiliar with her own kid's needs. It's very sad. Anyone who watched those early episodes with April n Butch's Hillbilly Sideshow knows that April can't raise a healthy child. I find Tyler and Catelynn to be very disappointing. They have all but given up on life and they have so many advantages and blessings. They make me stabby. 

[dabronx]

What's saddest to me is that Cate and Tyler survived their childhood's as well as they did because they had each other. But as adults they now hold each other back from so much.

[ginger90]

http://www.wetpaint.com/catelynn-tyler-clothing-line-teen-mom-og-1585760/?utm_content=buffer36a67&utm_medium=tw-wetpainttv&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=repromote-buffer

“Strictly just for kids,” Cate chimed in. “And majority of our products are handmade in Michigan. We cut it, we help with everything. [They’re] good quality items and cute items for kids.”

[poopchute]

Quote

We can’t knock the teen moms’ hustle, that’s for sure — at least they’re preparing themselves financially for life after reality TV!

Is this sentence a joke?

[bethster2000]

18 hours ago, jennyplayswithfire said:

April n Butch's Hillbilly Sideshow

*SPLORT*  Crystal Light lemonade all over my monitor.  LOL for days.

[ginger90]

Someone tweeted Catelynn and said they were visiting the area. They asked for suggestions of places to see. Catelynn suggested a restaurant,  and a place to go for dessert after. Helpful, isn't she ?

[woodscommaelle]

Actually, I think recommending places to eat for someone out of town is a good thing.  Though I feel like every place they mentioned was greasy bar food/nachos/wings places. Which, I love some good bar food:  potato skins, please....but that stuff but it makes my stomach hurt.

[ginger90]

Nothing wrong with mentioning places to eat, I agree. But the person asked about places to see.

[teapot]

I am surprised that Tyler hasn't gotten propositioned by some little vixens who want to steal him from Cate...or  maybe he has & has turned them down?

I could see a girl desperate for fifteen minutes reaching out to him, "oh hey, I have my shizz together, you shouldn't have to take on all of that, come live w/me in (I'll say Boston b/c that's where I am and I won't disparage anyone else's town), I'm showing up at the pole every night and can give you a good life...

why am I writing Tyler fanfic right now???

[Calm81]

56 minutes ago, teapot said:

I am surprised that Tyler hasn't gotten propositioned by some little vixens who want to steal him from Cate...or  maybe he has & has turned them down?

I could see a girl desperate for fifteen minutes reaching out to him, "oh hey, I have my shizz together, you shouldn't have to take on all of that, come live w/me in (I'll say Boston b/c that's where I am and I won't disparage anyone else's town), I'm showing up at the pole every night and can give you a good life...

why am I writing Tyler fanfic right now???

Let's keep him outta Boston. Our town is just too precious. ?

Send him to Florida. People from Michigan love moving down there. Lol.

[teapot]

2 minutes ago, Calm81 said:

Let's keep him outta Boston. Our town is just too precious. ?

Send him to Florida. People from Michigan love moving down there. Lol.

WICKED GOOD CALL!!!!

(I mean, we kinda already have to claim Matt Baier...)

Edited April 28, 2017 by teapot

[CofCinci]

5 hours ago, teapot said:

I am surprised that Tyler hasn't gotten propositioned by some little vixens who want to steal him from Cate...or  maybe he has & has turned them down?

He was propositioned and did leave Catelynn for New Orleans. 

[Brooklynista]

22 hours ago, teapot said:

I am surprised that Tyler hasn't gotten propositioned by some little vixens who want to steal him from Cate...or  maybe he has & has turned them down?

I could see a girl desperate for fifteen minutes reaching out to him, "oh hey, I have my shizz together, you shouldn't have to take on all of that, come live w/me in (I'll say Boston b/c that's where I am and I won't disparage anyone else's town), I'm showing up at the pole every night and can give you a good life...

why am I writing Tyler fanfic right now???

I dont think he'd really go for that.

17 hours ago, CofCinci said:

He was propositioned and did leave Catelynn for New Orleans. 

This right here is why. He's already flown the coop once. Catelyn was just lucky it didnt work out and he came back.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Brooklynista

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

On April 25, 2017 at 0:28 PM, Emmierose said:

How is it that Catelynn seems dumber now than when she was a kid?  Thinking back to the 16 and Pregnant episode where she and Tyler met Brandon and Teresa in Dawn's office, she was bright, articulate, and very directed in what it is she wanted for her daughter and for herself.  How is it that she seems to have regressed in both grammar and intelligence?  I get that pot smoking can make someone less motivated, but has it also made her dumb? Depression doesn't make you dumb either, it makes you...depressed.  She just seems so inarticulate, defensive, moody, and trashy. Dirty and greasy too.  What happened to that bright, friendly, motivated girl with the big smile and clean and shiny red hair? 

I think Cate was parroting what the adoption agency people/literature said. She was definitely speaking in adoption-speak. I think the 16&P producers probably also gave her some talking points or downright practiced with her before the turned on the camera.

On April 25, 2017 at 8:50 PM, dabronx said:

What's saddest to me is that Cate and Tyler survived their childhood's as well as they did because they had each other. But as adults they now hold each other back from so much.

I couldn't have said it better. Absolutely.

[GreatKazu]

On ‎4‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 3:56 PM, ginger90 said:

Someone tweeted Catelynn and said they were visiting the area. They asked for suggestions of places to see. Catelynn suggested a restaurant,  and a place to go for dessert after. Helpful, isn't she ?

Catelynn has never been anywhere else but a fast food place, and Boogie Town. 

Tyler would know where the strip clubs are, though. 

21 hours ago, Calm81 said:

Let's keep him outta Boston. Our town is just too precious. ?

Send him to Florida. People from Michigan love moving down there. Lol.

Catelynn's been to Florida. That is where she cheated on Tyler. I don't think he'd want to go there. 

16 hours ago, CofCinci said:

He was propositioned and did leave Catelynn for New Orleans. 

Yep. And this is why she made sure to not use birth control with Tyler so she could become pregnant and he would have to go through with the wedding. 

[Brooklynista]

http://www.celebuzz.com/2017-04-28/tyler-baltierra-catelynn-lowell-cheating-gay-man-affair-farrah-abraham/

Farrah speaking my thoughts. Every so often she drops some pearls.

[JocelynCavanaugh]

56 minutes ago, Brooklynista said:

http://www.celebuzz.com/2017-04-28/tyler-baltierra-catelynn-lowell-cheating-gay-man-affair-farrah-abraham/

Farrah speaking my thoughts. Every so often she drops some pearls.

It may just be a rumor but it's one I have no trouble believing. Live your truth, TyTy! Catelynn will have her quesadillas to keep her company. 

[GreatKazu]

1 hour ago, Brooklynista said:

http://www.celebuzz.com/2017-04-28/tyler-baltierra-catelynn-lowell-cheating-gay-man-affair-farrah-abraham/

Farrah speaking my thoughts. Every so often she drops some pearls.

Farrah is like the Brandi Glanville of Teen Mom. No fucks to give about her co-stars. Keep them coming, Farrah. 

Tyler cheating with a guy is nothing new. Some of us truly believe it. It is not a topic that will be going away anytime soon. Tyler, come out! Leave Cate and go live your life. Be free and happy for once. 

I can't wait for Farrah to drop that Maci is being cheated on by Taylor. Maci would have a shit attack and drown herself in Bud Lights. 

Edited April 29, 2017 by GreatKazu

[CofCinci]

7 hours ago, Brooklynista said:

http://www.celebuzz.com/2017-04-28/tyler-baltierra-catelynn-lowell-cheating-gay-man-affair-farrah-abraham/

Farrah speaking my thoughts. Every so often she drops some pearls.

Farrah was the first to reveal Kail's pregnancy back in December. She's usually very correct with her TM gossip. I figure a producer tells her. 

[Brooklynista]

6 hours ago, CofCinci said:

Farrah was the first to reveal Kail's pregnancy back in December. She's usually very correct with her TM gossip. I figure a producer tells her. 

That and sometimes shr just calls a thing a thing. Farrah was the one who called out Tyler amd Cate about their doing great things in the name of Carly bullshit. She was the only one to tell Amber to get far, far away from that asshole Matt. Farrah spoke to Amber woman to woman in that phone call and Amber knows everything she said was true. Amber is that girlfriend who gets angry at you when you tell her that her man is cheating.

Thats a big reason why they cant stand Farrah. Everybody likes a straight shooter until they start aiming at them.

[GreatKazu]

7 hours ago, Brooklynista said:

That and sometimes shr just calls a thing a thing. Farrah was the one who called out Tyler amd Cate about their doing great things in the name of Carly bullshit. She was the only one to tell Amber to get far, far away from that asshole Matt. Farrah spoke to Amber woman to woman in that phone call and Amber knows everything she said was true. Amber is that girlfriend who gets angry at you when you tell her that her man is cheating.

Thats a big reason why they cant stand Farrah. Everybody likes a straight shooter until they start aiming at them.

So true. Farrah says the things that we wish we could say to these morons. And all they can say about Farrah is she made a porn tape. You never hear anything else. Oh wait, Cate did mention Farrah's plastic surgery. How rich considering her best bud, Ambie also had plastic surgery and Maci also went under the knife.

[guilfoyleatpp]

It would be so hard for Tyler to come out though. With Catelyn and his dad...so very very hard.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

On 4/30/2017 at 6:23 AM, Brooklynista said:

That and sometimes shr just calls a thing a thing. Farrah was the one who called out Tyler amd Cate about their doing great things in the name of Carly bullshit. She was the only one to tell Amber to get far, far away from that asshole Matt. Farrah spoke to Amber woman to woman in that phone call and Amber knows everything she said was true. Amber is that girlfriend who gets angry at you when you tell her that her man is cheating.

Thats a big reason why they cant stand Farrah. Everybody likes a straight shooter until they start aiming at them.

That's one thing I'll say for Farrah (besides her hustle and the fact that she -yay- hasn't reproduced again unlike most of these Teen Mom shows' castmembers), Farrah is able to and will generally point out when a duck is duck if she's seen it quacking. I just wish she could apply some of this wisdom/critiques to how she treats others at times and her relationship with her family.

Edited May 3, 2017 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[Calm81]

8 hours ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

That's one thing I'll say for Farrah (besides her hustle and the fact that she -yay- hasn't reproduced again unlike most of these Teen Mom shows' casmembers), Farrah is able to and will generally point out when a duck is duck if she's seen it quacking. I just wish she could apply some of this wisdom/critiques to how she treats others at times and her relationship with. Her family.

Yeah, Farrah had so much potential to being my favorite but I can't get past how mean she is to people.

Farrah, be a little nicer and you can become the fan favorite and that might get you far once this show ends. Heck, I'll even buy some furniture from your store if I knew I was helping a caring family out.

She really does have the hustle, mindset to succeed in life. I remember the first season and she was NEVER sitting on the couch doing nothing. I remember a scene where she was doing her math homework while holding Sophia and trying to eat her Iunch/dinner at the same time.

The girl didn't like wasting time that could be spent on something useful as she stated when those guys she dated were wasting her time on those dates "I could've been doing school work instead of going on a date with guys that knew in advance they didn't want to date someone with a child."

I think her role in the sex industry can be overlooked in my eyes because I feel that violence is worst and Amber is the one the other girls should be hating on. Filming yourself having legal sex or watching someone hit and punch loved ones? I'll back up the porn star over the violent one anyday no pun intended. ??

Edited May 1, 2017 by Calm81

[BXD]

I think I missed this but when and why did Tyler go to New Orleans?

[ghoulina]

I have mixed feelings about this claim of Farrah's. On the one hand, I don't think it is ANYONE'S place to out anyone else - no matter how much other people might suspect it already. I don't care for Tyler, but his sexuality is HIS business. 

On the other hand, she didn't say anything specific and when you put your life out there, this is what you get. 

It wouldn't surprise me. 

[Brooklynista]

21 minutes ago, BXD said:

I think I missed this but when and why did Tyler go to New Orleans?

https://www.reddit.com/r/teenmom/comments/5buq03/tylers_time_in_new_orleans_circa_2012/?st=j265atyc&sh=605d473d

 

This might help shed some light.

[BXD]

31 minutes ago, Brooklynista said:

https://www.reddit.com/r/teenmom/comments/5buq03/tylers_time_in_new_orleans_circa_2012/?st=j265atyc&sh=605d473d

 

This might help shed some light.

Wow I had no idea! Thanks for sharing!

[GreatKazu]

2 hours ago, ghoulina said:

I have mixed feelings about this claim of Farrah's. On the one hand, I don't think it is ANYONE'S place to out anyone else - no matter how much other people might suspect it already. I don't care for Tyler, but his sexuality is HIS business. 

On the other hand, she didn't say anything specific and when you put your life out there, this is what you get. 

It wouldn't surprise me. 

Especially when it comes to someone like Farrah who wouldn't acknowledge her own truth such as the porn tape and the DUI. 

As a parent to a gay child, I agree, it isn't anyone's business. On the other hand, when you put everything out there about yourself on a tv show the way Tyler and the rest of the cast do, especially in this day and age of the internet, TMZ, and the ease of acquiring information (as we have done here on this board) the chances are quite slim that any secrets you have may come out. Matt is the perfect example of how people will dig and dig information on you. Some information is not even that hard to find. Look at what happened to that man on the United Airlines flight when he wouldn't give up his seat. He gets assaulted, but TMZ dug up dirt on him and put it out there. The same thing happened to that poor man who ended up on a tourist bus in Hollywood and found himself in front of millions of people when that busload of people were shown on the Academy Awards. TMZ did the same thing - dug up dirt on the poor guy. 

Tyler and Cate made themselves easy targets with their countless comments about bettering themselves, going to college, having aspirations and dreams. If you don't follow through on such claims, people may remind you. I can't remember exactly how it went down on the Family Therapy show reunion, but I seem to remember Cate and Tyler having a "better than thou" attitude towards Farrah because of her sex tape. That started the ball rolling and why she reminded them of their so-called dreams. If you are going to have judgments and throw stones, you better expect some thrown right back at you. 

Edited May 1, 2017 by GreatKazu

[ginger90]

I seem to remember it being said that all products were going to be made in Michigan. Now it's the "majority" and they're "things".

https://mobile.twitter.com/CatelynnLowell/status/859063496281083904?p=v

PS they have still failed to launch!