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Crisis On Infinite Earths 2019: Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Tells Their Story

scarynikki12

By scarynikki12
in Legends Of Tomorrow

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This thread is specifically for discussion of Elseworlds, Crisis on Infinite Earths, and speculation and spoilers directly pertaining to them.  Full rules for the thread are here; please read them.  Off-topic posts may be removed.

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GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

12 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Anyone else vaguely depressed that’s all the E99 Batman we got? 🖐 

Seriously, read Kingdom Come if you haven’t already.

ETA Speculation: Jefferson Pierce: Paragon of Getting Metaphorically Punched In The Gut?

YES! And like I posted in the episode thread, while I was THRILLED to hear Conroy's voice in live action, hell, chills, as I heard his voice before we saw him, because, that's MY BATS, I'm pissed and raging that instead of Batman Beyond Bruce/Bats, we got Assfleck and that asshole Miller's version instead. Conroy enjoyed this, but I wanted my DCAU Bruce/Bats!!!! 

But at least we got more than a 10-15 second scenes, so yay?

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BkWurm1
BkWurm1

Aww crap. I was hoping he'd be bored and have moved away from the crossover by next year.  I really don't like the narrow focus on just the leads.  I was willing to put up with it this year but now I'

Starfish35
Starfish35

I’m dying. 🤣 From Tumblr:

Mellowyellow
Mellowyellow

Ahh good old Stephen and his NOPE face reserved for everyone who isn't EBR. At least he doesn't look like he wants to break Iris's arm there! We had a temp LI in S5 and there was a scene where sh

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Trini

Trini

Found the quote: https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-features/crisis-on-infinite-earths-cw-crossover-behind-scenes-interview-920570/

Quote

Beyond the guest-star logistics — not to mention what Guggenheim calls the “budgetary aneurysm” that comes from moving regulars from show to show (“All the actors get paid a special crossover rate, which is higher than their regular episodic rate”) — there are more fundamental storytelling questions behind such an event. Though not every one of the dozens of characters to appear can get an arc of their own, he says, “it was very important that the five leads each had an emotional story that took you all the way from hour one to hour five.” This means a lot of interaction between Oliver and Barry, as the two heroes who formed the foundation of this multiverse, and also a fair amount between Supergirl and Batwoman, whose chemistry was a revelation to Guggenheim and the others when they briefly interacted during Elseworlds.

So this is either a lie, or it's all happening in 2020? There definitely hasn't been much Oliver/Barry so far. And the only leads that have really had a story in the first two parts have been Kara and Sara (though I can quibble about execution). Maybe Earth-38 Superman if you squint.

I think they should have had some of these characters connect before the crossover, even briefly. With both Oliver and Barry going through similar struggles, it makes sense. It was dumb that they never had them talk together before Oliver died.

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way2interested

way2interested

1 hour ago, Trini said:

So this is either a lie, or it's all happening in 2020? There definitely hasn't been much Oliver/Barry so far. And the only leads that have really had a story in the first two parts have been Kara and Sara (though I can quibble about execution).

Oliver reiterated he was dying for Barry and got upset at the idea that his death might mean nothing since Barry was also told he would die, Barry continuously showed anger at Oliver's death and planned with Mia to bring him back to life. Idk, they may not have had much screen time together or specific focus, but in terms of what those specific character arcs and plots were, it's literally all Oliver has had and what Barry has had so far as individual plots. With the amount of characters they had, it was never going to be a full focused episode of them together.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Spoilerish for tonight's third crossover episode...

Cress Williams on Black Lightning Joining 'Fictional' Arrowverse Heroes, Being the Object of Costume Envy
By Matt Webb Mitovich / December 10 2019
https://tvline.com/2019/12/10/black-lightning-joins-crisis-on-infinite-earths-cress-williams-interview/ 

Quote

TVLINE | Does Jefferson come to us in Part 3, or do we seek him out?
I guess it’s a little bit of both…? He gets pulled into the conflict, but by the definition of getting “pulled in,” you’re coming to him at the same time.

TVLINE | In the promos he looks a bit angry….
Yes! It’s surprising to him. It’s not a situation where somebody came to him and said, “Hey, we’d like you to do this….” It comes as a shock, and that’s why he seems a little angry.

TVLINE | Has Jefferson previously “heard of” any of these other superheroes? Or is this all brand-new information to him, that they actually exist?
I think it’s brand-new. I liken Freeland to what our existence is — he has heard of them, but not as real entities. They’re more fictional characters to him.

TVLINE | Because Black Lightning Season 1 had that mention of Supergirl, but we didn’t know if it was simply as a comic book character or a comic book based on a real person.
I’m not the 100-percent authority on it, but based on how we’ve been dealing with it, she was strictly a fictional character — like in our world today. She was a comic book character not necessarily based on a real person — in his mind.

TVLINE | Does Black Lightning bring a peculiar set of skills to the situation?
Besides, of course, the electrical power, there’s a certain level of savvy — because this is something he’s been doing longer than everyone else.
*  *  *
TVLINE | Give me one last tease about your Arrowverse debut.
I definitely have a role to play — how about that?

Edited by tv echo
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Trini

Trini

16 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Oliver reiterated he was dying for Barry and got upset at the idea that his death might mean nothing since Barry was also told he would die, Barry continuously showed anger at Oliver's death and planned with Mia to bring him back to life. Idk, they may not have had much screen time together or specific focus, but in terms of what those specific character arcs and plots were, it's literally all Oliver has had and what Barry has had so far as individual plots. With the amount of characters they had, it was never going to be a full focused episode of them together.

It doesn't have to be a whole episode of them together, but them only saying two lines to each other in two episodes (and it doesn't look good for the next 3) is way too little - if they wanted to highlight that relationship, but I guess they don't.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Video of entire Crisis Aftermath I post-show, hosted by Kevin Smith, on Dec. 8th, with guests Katherine McNamara, LaMonica Garrett, Marc Bernardin, Robert Rovner, Caroline Dries and Marc Guggenheim (also EW's Chancellor Agard)...

(Christian90z Bunke)

-- MG: "This is a spoiler - this is something we haven't told anybody - is, we're going to open Hour Four, which is the Arrow hour, which is coming - it's not even on until January... we open with, basically, the mother of all flashbacks, when we basically do the secret origin of the Monitor and the Anti-Monitor... And actually, that whole sequence - the first draft - it was actually written by Marv Wolfman... He and I co-wrote the Arrow hour."

Edited by tv echo
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way2interested

way2interested

17 minutes ago, Trini said:

It doesn't have to be a whole episode of them together, but them only saying two lines to each other in two episodes (and it doesn't look good for the next 3) is way too little - if they wanted to highlight that relationship, but I guess they don't.

Part of it though so far is just that Barry hasn't done much and Oliver literally died, so it's not like they had a lot of time. But the time they have used (with Barry specifically, the biggest stuff sans action he's done so far is his first scene with Lyla, his conversation with Oliver, talking with Iris, and helping to resurrect Oliver, 3/4 of those things are about their friendship.) highlights it, imo.

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Trini

Trini

10 minutes ago, way2interested said:

Part of it though so far is just that Barry hasn't done much and Oliver literally died, so it's not like they had a lot of time. ...

Yes, that's the problem. It's the opposite of what the producers said was going to happen.

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way2interested

way2interested

(edited)
26 minutes ago, Trini said:

Yes, that's the problem. It's the opposite of what the producers said was going to happen.

MG didn't say that was what's going to happen, the article writer did though? He just said that all 5 leads had emotional stories. Plus, the writer mentioned the same for Kara and Kate and that really only just started happening in part 2?

Edited by way2interested
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

There's more than what I quoted below...

Inside Secrets of the 'Crisis on Infinite Earths' Arrowverse Crossover
Michael Maloney December 10, 2019 
https://www.tvinsider.com/839298/inside-secrets-of-the-crisis-on-infinite-earths-arrowverse-crossover/ 

Quote

Producers Marc Guggenheim (Arrow; Supergirl; Batwoman; Consulting Producer, Legends of Tomorrow), Beth Schwartz (Arrow), Robert Rovner (Supergirl), Keto Shimizu (Legends of Tomorrow), and Caroline Dries (Batwoman) chatted with reporters to share some secrets about your favorite scenes from the first two chapters of "Crisis."
*  *  *
On using the Lazarus Pit to bring Oliver back 
Schwartz: “Roy (Colton Haynes) had a dip in ‘the Pit,’ as we call it. We have been bring it back a little bit this season. We know what the effects are. We’re setting up what happens when you go in the pit. It’s not an easy transformation you don’t just go in and you’re back [without ramifications].”

Shimizu: “Sara has had firsthand experience [with the Lazarus Pit] and that gives her some real skin in this game on whether or not to use it. She’s an authority on this. It’s a reminder for us as to how far she’s come.”

Guggenheim: “Certainly, Sara is wrestling with this the most. She went into this with Barry [Grant Gustin] and Mia [Katherine McNamara] with a lot of reservations. And they’re very well-earned. The complication you saw at the end of the second hour of 'Crisis' is just another confirmation that she should have maybe trusted her original instincts. Things are not working out the way Barry and Mia were hoping.”

Shimizu: “[Sara] was very lucky get out the way she did. It’s like lighting striking twice – it’s hard to bottle that again.”
*  *  *
On if there was ever a plan to have all three Supermen in a scene together
Guggenheim: “We never wrote that. In terms of having Brandon and Tom be in a scene together, they were working at crossed purposes. We wanted Brandon at the Daily Planet and Tom at the farm. The desire to have multiple Supermen [together] is what inspired the backup story in the comic book (Crisis on Infinite Earths 100-Page Giant) that’s been announced. It’s [got] every Lex and every Superman in it you could imagine. There’s a lot of things we can’t do because of money and scheduling [on television]. The great thing about the medium of comic books is that you’re limited by budgets and schedules. This struck me as a nice avenue to get in a couple of concepts that we couldn’t include [on-screen].”
*  *  *
On how each Earth number relates to who was on it
Guggenheim: “Yes. Burt Ward was on Earth-66 (the Batman TV series premiered in 1966). Lois (Elizabeth Tulloch) and Clark see the image of Superman dying was Earth-75 (Superman ‘died’ in the Superman comic No. 75.) Earth-167 for Smallville is connected to Al Gough [EP, Smallville, who was born in 1967]. For the most part, we tried to follow that convention, but sometimes, we just picked a number.
*  *  *
On having Brandon Routh’s characters — Superman/Clark Kent and Ray Palmer/The Atom — interact
Guggenheim: “That was easy.”

Shimizu: “You just lock the camera twice.”

Guggenheim: “In that scene, Brandon’s not wearing glasses but he’s dressed in his Clark Kent outfit. That scene originally was scripted for Brandon to be in his Superman outfit, but it takes an hour to get him in there. We didn’t have time so the compromise was to have him as Clark Kent without his glasses.”

Edited by tv echo
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GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

1 minute ago, Starfish35 said:

Did they air a trailer for the January episodes afterwards?

Yes. Like 10 seconds or so.

I knew, just knew, with the overloading of all the guest actors, and the hyping and hyping and HYPING of “CRISIS!!!!” it would be a letdown. And so far, aside from a few emotional beats and nostalgia, it’s turning into a Nothing Burger.

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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

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7 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Did they air a trailer for the January episodes afterwards?

Yep. We see Oliver in a suit, the Anti-Monitor in all his Night King/The Master glory, and the Paragons in what Twitter has described as the same quarry the Power Rangers would fight in.

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Lantern7

Lantern7

Part 4 is Legends of Tomorrow, right? Even if it turns out to be a breakout episode for Sara, I'd still want the rest of the team there. One possible solution: the Time Bureau makes Vanishing Point their ultimate contingency shelter. Minimum, that would bring in Ava. Also Gary, but I could live with him. Maybe.

If Ray is off the board, we wouldn't need Nate. He would have geeked out so hard on Superman-96.

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shantown

shantown

Didn't Marc Guggenheim say to all the showrunners at the beginning of writing the Crisis (or at the beginning of their seasons?) that this would be the chance to really do huge changes if they wanted too? I'm like 90% sure there's not going to be ANY changes of consequence, no merged earths, no replaced doppelgangers, nothing. Maybe something on Legends, but probably not anywhere else. And that's really disappointing.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Video of entire Crisis Aftermath II post-show, hosted by Kevin Smith, on Dec. 10th, with guests Jon Cryer, Eric Wallace, Kevin Conroy, Robert Wuhl, Geoff Johns, Keto Shimizu, and Marc Guggenheim (also EW's Chancellor Agard)...

(Christian90z Bunke)

-- When asked what the Seven Paragons represent, MG: "Well, you know, they represent different aspects of humanity. You know, hope and love and courage and truth. And, you know... but what they really represented for us as writers was, we needed a MacGuffin. You know, we needed our heroes to be looking for something, and the Infinity Stones were taken every year, prior to Crisis On Infinite Earths, they did an annual crossover between the Justice League of America and the Justice Society of America, and the last one before Crisis, uh, written by Gerry Conway and drawn by George Perez, who drew Crisis, uh, was about the idea that there were these special characters that, if you - in the comic, if you removed them from the comic universe, basically all superheroes would disappear. But the idea that there were these special heroes, uh, that are out in the multi-verse? That was worth appropriating... (Kevin Smith: "And appropriating -?")  Stealing."

-- MG: "I think, in the years to come, we will see that the relationship between Kate and Kara is the replacement for the relationship between Barry and Oliver."

-- When asked about the Legends' role in this epic crossover, LoT EP Keto Shimizu: "The captain, Sara Lance, has a huge role to play in the final hour. It's really when she comes into her own as a leader, um, of all of these amazing heroes, to really pull everybody together and, you know, honor everything that's happened both in her life and in this crazy crossover, and steer everybody into this final confrontation with the Anti-Monitor. It's really epic and really fun."*

(* They really should've kept made Sara Lance the Black Canary on Arrow, imo, but still moved her over to lead the Legends on LoT.)

-- On what's coming in 2020, MG: "I'll say, um, you know, a lot of your big questions get answered. I think there's some really great surprises, still some wonderful moments, some wonderful cameos still yet to come. And probably one of the biggest, most epic fights, uh, that we've ever done on any of the shows, certainly on any of the crossovers. So, uh, you got to check it out January 14."

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Coming in January...

Oliver: "Whatever it takes."
Barry: "Whatever it takes."
Sara: "Whatever it takes."
Kara: "Whatever it takes."
J'onn: "Whatever it takes."
Kate: "Whatever it takes."
Ryan: "Whatever it takes."

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

'Crisis on Infinite Earths': 'Lucifer' Star Tom Ellis Breaks Down His Surprise Cameo (Exclusive)
By Philiana Ng‍ 8:59 PM PST, December 10, 2019
https://www.etonline.com/crisis-on-infinite-earths-lucifer-star-tom-ellis-breaks-down-his-surprise-cameo-exclusive-137669 

Quote

“So yes, he is in the crossover. When I went to go and shoot the scene, we were talking on set beforehand -- myself and Matt Ryan -- and we were like, ‘This is so exciting. Wouldn't it be amazing if we could keep this a secret for the fans until they actually see it onscreen that night?’” Ellis explained to ET’s Katie Krause. “Of course, these days that's not that possible with social media at all. I think there were a few people hanging around the set who noticed that I was there and put stuff out that I was going to be in it, so I kind of was like, ‘I would still really like to surprise some people.’ So that is why.”

And no, Ellis didn’t fib about being up in Vancouver to attend a friend’s birthday bash. He just didn’t tell the whole story. “There was that as well,” he said. “I was actually genuinely there for my friend’s birthday… I was just economical with the truth.”
*  *  *
Ellis revealed he has kept the secret of Lucifer’s “Crisis” cameo for “about three-and-a-half months.” Producers first approached Ellis about a potential guest spot right before production began in early September on the fifth season of his Netflix series. For the Brit, it was an easy decision.

“It was, actually. Yeah, it was,” Ellis confirmed. “There were numerous reasons. One, when we started shooting, we did seasons one and two of Lucifer in Vancouver, so there is a big place in my heart for Vancouver. It was an opportunity to go back, see some friends and do all that sort of stuff. Also on the work side of it, we talked over the years about Lucifer being a DC character and, ‘Is there any chance of this happening?’ And I honestly thought there wasn’t.”

“So when they said [this idea], I was like, ‘Yeah, no, let’s do it. Let’s do it,’” the 41-year-old actor said. “I know Matt a little bit as well and we’ve talked about it in the past, so we made it happen! Indeed, we manifested it!”
*  *  *
What is unique about the Lucifer that fans meet in Tuesday’s episode is the character isn’t the same Lucifer that’s been charming the wits off everyone he meets in the Netflix series.

“We’re playing it as if it’s in the five years before the show, Lucifer, started, so when Lucifer spent five years in L.A. before meeting the detective and all those things unfolding,” Ellis revealed. “This is him in his proper playboy, don’t-give-a-damn-about-anything stage in his life. He is very irreverent with our characters when they turn up in the scene and obviously, with Constantine, there is some history there.”

How familiar are Constantine and Lucifer with each other? “Relatively familiar, but there’s a begrudging sort of admiration amongst the two of them, I think,” he said.
*  *  *
“With these crossover episodes, it opens up a world in which they can really experiment with time and it felt like -- if there was ever going to be an opportunity, this was it, you know?” Ellis said, adding that it was “really fun” working for the first time with Ramsey and McNamara. “I turned up on set and I said, ‘Hello, David, do you remember me?’ and it was like, ‘Yeah, man!’ We fell off the stage together at Comic-Con… That was our bonding moment a few years ago, so we have a laugh about that… There were no injuries in the making of this one.”

But could this open more doors to seeing Lucifer pop up on other realms under the Arrow-verse umbrella? “That’s a question for the DC bosses, not for me! I never say never,” Ellis coyly answered.

He did offer a dream scenario he would like to see fulfilled if another crossover opportunity presented itself down the line. “I’d like Lucifer to be in a superhero costume at some point though, that’d be kind of fun. Lose the tux and all of a sudden he’s in spandex, head to toe.”

Edited by tv echo
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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

'Crisis on Infinite Earths' star Jon Cryer reacts to Lex's 'oh s---' moment
Chancellor Agard   Dec. 10, 2019
https://ew.com/tv/2019/12/10/crisis-on-infinite-earths-lex-luthor-jon-cryer-brandon-routh-superman-death/ 

Quote

“What I will tell you is that the Arrow script is my favorite script of the five,” says Cryer of the crossover’s fourth part.

His excitement makes sense given what crossover executive producer previously told EW about the Arrow hour, which Guggenheim co-wrote with Marv Wolfman, the co-creator of the original Crisis on Infinite Earths comic. “Marv’s interpretation of Lex Luthor, in particular, is genius. What phenomenal, phenomenal material for Jon Cryer!” teased Guggenheim.

And Cryer agrees with Guggenheim’s assessment. “Lex gets to really stretch his legs in episode 4 and its great fun,” says Cryer. “It is such an honor to be actually voicing Marv Wolfman’s writing, as well as Marc’s obviously. I have such reverence for the guy from his comic work. I was actually hoping to meet him at Comic Con this year because he was in artist alley. I brought my daughter, she writes comic book as well, she’s 10. I was so excited, and he wasn’t there! It’s driving me crazy.”

Edited by tv echo
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Trini

Trini

14 hours ago, shantown said:

Didn't Marc Guggenheim say to all the showrunners at the beginning of writing the Crisis (or at the beginning of their seasons?) that this would be the chance to really do huge changes if they wanted too? I'm like 90% sure there's not going to be ANY changes of consequence, no merged earths, no replaced doppelgangers, nothing. Maybe something on Legends, but probably not anywhere else. And that's really disappointing.

Wallace was already talking about changes since Comic Con, so there will probably be some changes on The Flash. Wasn't really expecting anything significant for Batwoman or Supergirl in particular. Black Lighting might now get to make references to the other shows and greater universe, but that's all I'm expecting. Can't say about the other shows.

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Trini

Trini

The other crossovers have been a dude-fest, so while there are still some problems overall, I do like that this time around we got some focus and bigger roles for characters like Kara/Supergirl, Lois, Iris, Kate/Batwoman, Lyla, Sara and Mia.

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Starry

Starry

It's sad that he couldn't be in it.

11 hours ago, Trini said:

I wonder who she was going to be? A character in the Batwoman part? I love seeing doppelgangers, so this would have been nice to see.

I wonder if she got the scenes with Lois and the Clarks as a consolation prize. I wasn't pleased with how those were set up. They didn't have Iris do anything noteworthy. Her scene with Ryan Choi made much more sense. He and Iris could relate on some level and their talk tied back to her moment with Barry.

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