Crisis On Infinite Earths 2019: Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Tells Their Story

[Trini]

'How “Elseworlds” Was a Great Ode to DC Entertainment’s Past'

[Trini]

[Trini]

Another behind the scenes video; the Arkham stunts:

[Trini]

"Inside the Crossover: Elseworlds" digital feature available with an iTunes season pass. https://itunes.apple.com/us/tv-season/inside-the-crossover-elseworlds/id1433842833?i=1446669519

[tv echo]

Is Million Little Things Misleading Us? Why Did The Ranch Cheat Death? Can Conners Keep Katey? And More Qs!
By Vlada Gelman, Matt Webb Mitovich, Andy Swift, Rebecca Iannucci and Ryan Schwartz / December 14 2018, 9:56 AM PST
https://tvline.com/2018/12/14/million-little-things-ashley-jon-sex-tv-questions/

Quote

9 | Regarding the Arrowverse’s three-part “Elseworlds” crossover:
A) If Clark is frenemies with Bruce Wayne, as Kara says, does that mean there’s also a Batman on Earth-38?
B) If Oliver and Barry were themselves experiencing no identity crisis, why did Scarecrow’s gas make them hallucinate one another’s adversaries?
C) TVLine reader Anne asks: “How did AMAZO copy the Superduo’s powers when they’re not metas, or did they not mention he could copy alien powers too?”
D) Is the language from The Monitor’s reality-rewriting book (geez, how was that MacGuffin never given a succinct name?) related to The Flash‘s Speed Force code? And/or the Sumerian offshoot from Titans?

Edited December 16, 2018 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

I liked this for explaining  bit more about CoIE.

https://screenrant.com/arrowverse-crisis-infinite-earths-crossover-story-set-up/2/

[MarkHB]

On 12/16/2018 at 8:30 AM, tv echo said:

Is Million Little Things Misleading Us? Why Did The Ranch Cheat Death? Can Conners Keep Katey? And More Qs!
By Vlada Gelman, Matt Webb Mitovich, Andy Swift, Rebecca Iannucci and Ryan Schwartz / December 14 2018, 9:56 AM PST
https://tvline.com/2018/12/14/million-little-things-ashley-jon-sex-tv-questions/

Quote

A) If Clark is frenemies with Bruce Wayne, as Kara says, does that mean there’s also a Batman on Earth-38?
B) If Oliver and Barry were themselves experiencing no identity crisis, why did Scarecrow’s gas make them hallucinate one another’s adversaries?
C) TVLine reader Anne asks: “How did AMAZO copy the Superduo’s powers when they’re not metas, or did they not mention he could copy alien powers too?”
D) Is the language from The Monitor’s reality-rewriting book (geez, how was that MacGuffin never given a succinct name?) related to The Flash‘s Speed Force code? And/or the Sumerian offshoot from Titans?

My own personal answers, such as they are:

A) Yes.  They've alluded to as much in the past on Supergirl and that's presumably how Kara knew Bruce Wayne is Batman.

B) I'm in the "just roll with it" camp.

C) No, they didn't mention it, but presumably he can (I believe he can in the comics)

D) Darn good question.  I was wondering if it was supposed to be the Book of Souls that belongs to Destiny, of the Endless, but even the Monitor would have a hard time unchaining that from his wrist.  And I think they have one single all-purpose freaky alphabet for anything that isn't Interlac or Kryptonese (and I'm only aware of one instance of Interlac on any of the shows).

I was fully expecting Deegan to proclaim himself as Doctor Destiny at some point, but I guess that what happened to him at the end is a version of that character's current look in the comics.

[tv echo]

Ugh - from Dec. 9, 2018 EW article...

Quote

[Flash showrunner Todd] Helbing went on to say that The Flash will deal with whether or not too much of Oliver’s darkness seeped into Barry during the crossover. “There’s an episode a little bit down the line where Barry deals a little bit with that,” he said.
*  *  *
... For Oliver to be the Green Arrow, he has to draw on his dark and painful memories, whereas Barry has to harness everything that makes him joyful to use his speed. This exchange was one of Amell’s favorite moments of the crossover.

“The fact that Grant and I have this exchange, and have this really cool moment sitting on the steps of the Smallville ranch, is pretty much surreal as it gets,” Amell told EW when we visited the “Elseworlds” set in October. “The most important relationship in this crossover is the relationship between Barry and Oliver, not just because of the theme of them swapping lives but just because I personally think that’s the most important overarching, macro relationship in the entire universe that we’ve made over the past seven or eight years. Some of the scenes they have are just very earned because of the stuff you’ve seen before in the crossovers but just done a little differently.”

Edited December 18, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

EW staff members discussed the crossover and commented on how Supergirl was once again in the background and more of a supporting character to the "boys club" (not just Barry and Oliver, but also Clark)...

Entertainment Weekly's Superhero Insider: Elseworlds and Ariela Barer
Kyle Anderson, Shirley Li and Chancellor Agard  Dec. 14, 2018

[BkWurm1]

I really thought with Superman being a big mention for the crossover that they were letting Kara be front and center.  Nope, lol. 

[tv echo]

Paste's Power Rankings: The 10 Best Shows on TV Right Now
Week of 12/17/2018
By Paste Staff & TV Writers  |  December 18, 2018  
https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2018/12/pastes-power-rankings-the-10-best-shows-on-tv-righ-33.html

Quote

1. “Elseworlds” Crossover Event (Supergirl, Arrow, The Flash) 
Network: The CW
Last Week’s Ranking: Honorable Mention
...
I can’t remember the last time I had so much FUN watching television as I did with the most recent Arrowverse crossover event, “Elseworlds,” which saw Oliver Queen (Stephen Amell) and Barry Allen (Grant Gustin) switch identities on Earth-1, Kara Danvers (Melissa Benoist), Clark Kent (Tyler Hoechlin), and Lois Lane (Bitsie Tulloch) fly over from Earth-38 to help figure out how to switch them back, and Earth-90 Barry Allen (John Wesley Shipp, reprising his 1990s role) and Earth-1 Kate Kane (DC-newcomer Ruby Rose making her debut as Gotham City’s tatted-up Batwoman) pop up here and there to assist. (Legends of Tomorrow, alas, sat this one out.) Serving as both a break to each show’s Big Bad arc and a kick in the pants to each hero’s emotional arc, these now-annual outings are always a blast. But with its light-touch plotting—a genocide-preaching Gotham psychologist is gifted a reality-altering magical book to “test” Earth-1’s ability to take on a bigger evil looming in the future—and its dedication to finding all the right fan buttons to push—Shipp’s Barry Allen, the Smallville theme playing as the Kent’s Kansas farm hit the screen, Kara flirting awkwardly with a swaggering lady billionaire, Oliver and Barry honing in with hilariously vicious precision on their respective character’s best and most infuriating qualities as they bumbled through life in each other’s supersuits—this rendition really seemed to master the formula. Next year’s crossover event, “Crisis on Infinite Earths,” is already on the calendar, so I guess I have to set the bar of expectations higher than that. In the meantime, for fair-weather fans and ride-or-dies alike, the three episodes of “Elseworlds” are a genuine gift. Happy end of 2018, one and all. —Alexis Gunderson (Photo: Sergei Bachlakov/The CW)

10. Sally4Ever 
9. RWBY 
8. Splitting Up Together 
7. Escape at Dannemora 
6. Bleed Out 
5. Outlander 
4. The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel 
3. Travelers 
2. MARS 
1. “Elseworlds” Crossover Event (Supergirl, Arrow, The Flash) 

Edited December 18, 2018 by tv echo

[johntfs]

Clearly Paste's writers missed "Legends of To-Meow-Meow."

[BaggythePanther]

10 hours ago, johntfs said:

Clearly Paste's writers missed "Legends of To-Meow-Meow."

I was literally about to write this. After watching “Legends of To-Meow-Meow” Elseworlds was such a drag.

[Lugal]

19 hours ago, BaggythePanther said:

I was literally about to write this. After watching “Legends of To-Meow-Meow” Elseworlds was such a drag.

Elseworlds felt like they had to fit in Superman and Batwoman (and the way they did the whole "Batman and Gotham are part of the Arrowverse now" gave me whiplash).  Despite the face-saving statements by everyone, I remain convinced that it was not the Legends' choice to sit out the crossover.  But the joke was on them because "Legends of To-Meow-Meow" was way more fun than Elseworlds.

[johntfs]

I haven't watched this thing yet.  I will.  I don't exactly want to watch it, but I will because I promised Bitsie Tulloch in a tweet (that she liked) that I'd be watching for her.  And yes I could easily ignore that, but if I made the promise, however inconsequential, then I should keep it.  As of now I'm about four minutes in.  The Monitor has given the MacGuffin Book to Jeremy Davies' Dr. Deegan for... reasons (because even if right now the man seems well-meaning, he's also into eugenics and clearly unstable).  Meanwhile Oliver has just awoken in Barry's bed and been kissed by Iris, Barry's wife and I haven't been able to get any further because the rest of this looks like it's going to be unbearably embarrassing for all parties concerned.

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, johntfs said:

I haven't been able to get any further because the rest of this looks like it's going to be unbearably embarrassing for all parties concerned.

Mostly for the writers that got so much wrong for the sake of plot.  

[BaggythePanther]

5 hours ago, Lugal said:

Despite the face-saving statements by everyone, I remain convinced that it was not the Legends' choice to sit out the crossover.  But the joke was on them because "Legends of To-Meow-Meow" was way more fun than Elseworlds.

I don’t think it was their choice either but I agree LoT got the better end of the deal.

 

4 hours ago, johntfs said:

I haven't watched this thing yet.  I will.  I don't exactly want to watch it, but I will because I promised Bitsie Tulloch in a tweet (that she liked) that I'd be watching for her.  And yes I could easily ignore that, but if I made the promise, however inconsequential, then I should keep it.  As of now I'm about four minutes in.  The Monitor has given the MacGuffin Book to Jeremy Davies' Dr. Deegan for... reasons (because even if right now the man seems well-meaning, he's also into eugenics and clearly unstable).  Meanwhile Oliver has just awoken in Barry's bed and been kissed by Iris, Barry's wife and I haven't been able to get any further because the rest of this looks like it's going to be unbearably embarrassing for all parties concerned.

I really liked Superman and Lois. I knows this was supposed to be sort of a back door pilot for Batwoman, but by the end of the crossover I was more interested in a Superman spin-off.

[tennisgurl]

Yeah, this was clearly supposed to set up Batwoman and a Gotham story, and kickstart her show, but I was way more interested in Superman and Lois after the crossover. Batwoman was fine, and there is certainly potential there (its just so hard to out crazy Gotham when it comes to Bat shows!) but Superman and Lois were just next level in how interested in them I was.

Elseworlds was fun and all, but it had way too much "Oliver is such a dark and damaged used goods dumpster person compared to Perfect Heroes Kara and Barry" for me, and there was a tragic lack of characters being turned into puppets and singing songs about sharing. 

Edited December 20, 2018 by tennisgurl

[Trini]

Considering how much screentime the Hawks got in the second crossover, Batwoman got shafted if this was supposed to introduce her series. This turned out to be more about previewing next year's crossover. ::sigh::

Also shafted: most of the minority characters/actors. Over the 3 episodes, only The Monitor and Cisco had significant roles (but still not as much compared to the (white) leads). Diggle was in all three, but was mainly there for action scenes, or a couple of lines of exposition. Iris had a few sigificant scenes, but she was only in the Flash episode. ::deep sigh::

Edited December 23, 2018 by Trini
clarification

[shantown]

I am really hoping after next year's big Crisis Crossover that they end the one huge yearly crossover and do more little crossovers throughout the seasons. I liked when just Flash/Supergirl crossed over a couple times and it was just a one-ep/one-shot kind of thing. I would like to see Alex/J'onn/Diggle/Lyla in a DEO/ARGUS mini-crossover for a couple episodes. Or Brainy/Cisco/Felicity together on some sort of tech thing. Or Kara/Iris with a news story covering both cities. The huge everybody crossover last year was fun, this focus on the "big" names this year was misguided but understandable. Do the big crisis next year, bring the earths together (or at least 1 and 38) and then just do little character interactions. That's my favorite part anywhere - teamups you wouldn't normally see!

[MarkHB]

12 hours ago, BaggythePanther said:

I don’t think it was their choice either but I agree LoT got the better end of the deal.

I never thought it was strictly their choice.  I heard enough last year to know that the full 4-show crossovers, especially if they're telling a fully integrated story, are massive from a production standpoint and exhausting for the actors and crew.  So this time they went with a simpler 3-show version where each show was actually contained to some extent, similar to Invasion!  Next year I'm sure they'll be full throttle with hopefully Black Lightning in the mix as well (if they can make the "not in Vancouver" thing work out).

My personal wishlist for CoIE cameos:

Liv, Clive and Ravi from iZombie

David Mazouz and Camren Bicondova, aged up with makeup, sitting a a cafe in Florence

[Delphi]

Quote

C) TVLine reader Anne asks: “How did AMAZO copy the Superduo’s powers when they’re not metas, or did they not mention he could copy alien powers too?”

I'm more curious as to how he copied the Arrow skill set considering Oliver is just a regular human being who trained to get his skills. 

[Primal Slayer]

I really hope that they make sure to bring in characters like Gypsy, Kid Flash, Black Siren, A Laurel/Black Canary, a suited up Overwatch,  Citizen Cold, The Ray, Vixen. Of course probably put together an Alt-Earth trinity to work with the main Trinity. 

I feel like they will probably just kill off worlds instead of merging histories. 

[Trini]

48 minutes ago, MarkHB said:

My personal wishlist for CoIE cameos:

Liv, Clive and Ravi from iZombie

David Mazouz and Camren Bicondova, aged up with makeup, sitting a a cafe in Florence

Oooh - I didn't even think of Gotham cameos! That might be cool.

I totally get why people want Black Lightning included; but we saw how well these writers did with their own characters as well as those from the other shows and how off they were, so I really don't want them handling anyone from Freeland.

[Trini]

13 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Elseworlds was fun and all, but it had way too much "Oliver is such a dark and damaged used goods dumpster person compared to Perfect Heroes Kara and Barry" for me, and there was a tragic lack of characters being turned into puppets and singing songs about sharing. 

Whatever story they have planned for next year seems to need this contrast (whether it's entirely accurate or not); since they pointed it out in every episode. Does that relate to the Crisis story in the comics?

[BkWurm1]

The most I hope for from Black Lightning is a shot of him and maybe his girls looking up at the red skies during the height of the madness.  I'd love something like that with iZombie and Gotham and even Riverdale or Sabrina as well, just a nod their words existing.  

13 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Yeah, this was clearly supposed to set up Batwoman and a Gotham story, and kickstart her show, but I was way more interested in Superman and Lois after the crossover. Batwoman was fine, and there is certainly potential there (its just so hard to out crazy Gotham when it comes to Bat shows!) but Superman and Lois were just next level in how interested in them I was.

 

Yeah, I think Elseworlds was supposed to be a last hurrah kind of send off of Superman but all it made me do was want a rom/com action show more like the 90's Lois&Clark but starting up with them already married and trying to mix their careers and domestic life.  They could even age up the tot and toss in super teen to angst it up, lol.  

2 minutes ago, Trini said:

Whatever story they have planned for next year seems to need this contrast (whether it's entirely accurate or not); since they pointed it out in every episode. Does that relate to the Crisis story in the comics?

Yeah, does anyone know how Batman fit in?  From past experience, that would be Oliver's role model.  

[Primal Slayer]

16 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

The most I hope for from Black Lightning is a shot of him and maybe his girls looking up at the red skies during the height of the madness.  I'd love something like that with iZombie and Gotham and even Riverdale or Sabrina as well, just a nod their words existing.  

While iZombie is part of DC even though its not part of their main brand, Riverdale/Sabrina have nothing to do with DC. The only connection they have is Berlanti. 

[tennisgurl]

I wondered if the "Oliver is dark" stuff is actually setting up for a heroic sacrifice in the Crisis, where he dies so that Kara and Barry live, instead of dying like they both do in the comics crisis. I dont WANT that to happen, but it is a possibility. Of course, its possible that he will seemingly die, only to get stuck in another universe, or get his memory wiped or get him out of the main story, only for him to show up later. 

Granted, I have no clue if they would want to actually off one of their main heroes, who still has his own show, but you never know I guess. 

I think it would be super cool to have multiple CW shows get references even if its just a quick flash or see their characters looking at the red sky, or other comic books shows, despite what a mess that might be when it comes to copy rights. Maybe just vague references that are kind of fun winks to the audience, without having to drop names?

[Primal Slayer]

They could pull a Final Crisis where Batman gets zapped to the past.

If multiple Earths exist after this, I do hope they make it harder to travel between them. Cut off Cisco completely from being able to do it.

[Trini]

31 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Granted, I have no clue if they would want to actually off one of their main heroes, who still has his own show, but you never know I guess. 

I'll call their bluff - they not going to; or if they do, it's not going to be at mid-season. I'm thinking the main result of the next crossover will be the merging of worlds; not any major changes to characters.

[Proteus]

I for one don't want Black Lightning included. I really don't care about that show or its characters. Legends Of Tomorrow is my main priority so I want them to have a big role in it along with the other three shows & possibly Batwoman.

[scarynikki12]

3 hours ago, MarkHB said:

David Mazouz and Camren Bicondova, aged up with makeup, sitting a a cafe in Florence

I want Crisis to show them and Alfred looking at the red skies from a window at Wayne Manor. 

[MarkHB]

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Yeah, does anyone know how Batman fit in?  From past experience, that would be Oliver's role model. 

Batman's there (as is Ollie), but he's not a huge player in the story; the Anti-Monitor's power levels are just too far up there.  Plus, this was before the 1989 film (and in the midst of TDKR being published) so Batman wasn't as insanely popular as he would become a few years later.

[tennisgurl]

A lot of this depends on what they actually want to accomplish with the crisis crossover, beyond just being a cool crossover for next year. The original Crisis on Infinite Earths was created, among other reasons, because the higher ups at DC thought that the multiverse that DC had long had was too complicated, and made it too hard for new readers to jump in (comic book companies are always worried about that) and they wanted to streamline the whole thing. So they allowed Marve Wolfman, one of their top writers, to do his dream project, where every hero from every DC property ever all teamed up to beat up one giant bad guy who wanted to rule the entire multiverse, and in the process, ended the multiverse that had existed for years, in and out of universe. So a BUNCH of stuff happens, and eventually, several characters have died, several have been wiped from existence, and in the end, there is now only one universe, Earth 1, with every other universe have been destroyed and wiped from existence. Some characters from the other universes ended up in Earth 1, with everyone remembering that they were there the whole time, and some characters being absorbed into other characters, and many being forgotten entirely, including anyone who died in the Crisis (like Barry and Kara) and anyone who was wiped out of reality, and the only person who remembered anything about the old multiverse or anyone who was killed or destroyed was Psycho Pirate, who we met in this years crossover. Basically, they wanted to get rid of some old characters to try out some new ones (like with Barry) or to accomplish other issues the higher ups had (Kara was probably killed because they wanted Superman to be the only Kyptonian around), and make things easier to follow for new people. 

So, what do the higher ups at the Arrowverse want out of this? To put all their worlds and shows in one universe? To add some new characters in? To retcon some stuff they dont like, or isnt working? I highly doubt we will see the massive deaths and changes that we saw in the comic, but you would think they would want a crossover that really would lead to change.

[Trini]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So, what do the higher ups at the Arrowverse want out of this?

Yeah, that's the key question. We probably won't know the full answer until after the CoIE crossover.

On one hand, I feel the individual showrunners won't want this event to effect their own shows; but on the other hand, they going to have to change something big to justify using the 'Crisis on Infinite Earths' title.

---

Anyone think they'll also place next season's crossover as the ninth episode/mid-season finale of the shows, like this season?

[scarynikki12]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

So, what do the higher ups at the Arrowverse want out of this? To put all their worlds and shows in one universe? To add some new characters in? To retcon some stuff they dont like, or isnt working?

I wouldn't be surprised if their main purpose was "Yay!  We get to do Crisis!"  Which, to be fair, I can't blame them for because Crisis is the type of story that any comic fan would want to play with.  I know I would so, if that's their primary reason, I can't take issue there.  Now, for the purposes of the actual crossover, I think it's similar to the original reasons of DC that you laid out: they want Supergirl to be on the same Earth, and probably Black Lightning as well, and Crisis will allow that to happen.  The only significant deaths I expect to see in Crisis are ones that won't stick (Oliver) and the doppelgangers.  The only way any of our regular characters will permanently die is if the actors want off the shows. 

As far as retcons, I bet some of this happens but I hope it's along the lines of them bringing back Baby Sara, born on Earth 14 who survives the Crisis while her parents die and ours are the only Lyla and Diggle who survive and they adopt her (but she'll know her history so it won't be a retread of Quentin creepily trying to turn Black Siren into his dead daughter).  They know if they do any major retcons (eg the marriage of Oliver and Felicity getting wiped out and he ends up with Dinah, or something equally horrifying), they'll get nothing but shit from their viewers and it's too late in the run of the existing series for crazy changes.  If Batwoman makes it to series, they could do a mid-season dramatic shift in response to Crisis but they're the only ones.  I think it'll be a mid-season premiere like LOT was anyway so that would remove that possibility.

[MarkHB]

Honestly, I think that, with Arrow being in its seventh season which is usually when the actors' contracts run out (and they want more money), there's a good chance that Oliver will die and Arrow will end, with Batwoman taking over its spot in the schedule come January 2020. I can't imagine Diggle becoming Green Lantern unless it's an end-of-series reward and he gets spirited off to Oa for training, because GL would be too expensive to do on the CW on a regular basis.

One thing about Lyta Michaels: in the original Crisis, a character by that name was essentially an adoptive daughter of the Monitor, who became Harbinger (occasionally Lyta's code name on Arrow) and served as his herald as he tried to put the universes together.  There was also a character named Pariah, whose punishment for some transgression was to pop from one universe to the next, unable to do anything but watch as the Anti-Monitor destroyed them, but I don't think we've seen anyone like that (and who knows if he would serve the TV version of the story).

[scarynikki12]

I can’t see Arrow’s run ending with Crisis. If Arrow gets another full season, and Crisis is midseason like previous crossovers, then there’d be a half season of no Oliver. That’s why I think his death won’t stick. 

[Starfish35]

Yeah I don’t see Arrow going anywhere, unless Amell wants out, and it doesn’t sound like he does.  Last year I might have said otherwise, but this year it’s doing the second best of the CW DC shows, next to Flash of course.  

I’m far more worried about this being a way to wrap up Legends (among other things), considering its drooping ratings and apparent budget concerns (to the extent that they’re writing in-show jokes about it).  

Edited December 21, 2018 by Starfish35

[Primal Slayer]

6 hours ago, MarkHB said:

Honestly, I think that, with Arrow being in its seventh season which is usually when the actors' contracts run out (and they want more money), there's a good chance that Oliver will die and Arrow will end, with Batwoman taking over its spot in the schedule come January 2020. I can't imagine Diggle becoming Green Lantern unless it's an end-of-series reward and he gets spirited off to Oa for training, because GL would be too expensive to do on the CW on a regular basis.

One thing about Lyta Michaels: in the original Crisis, a character by that name was essentially an adoptive daughter of the Monitor, who became Harbinger (occasionally Lyta's code name on Arrow) and served as his herald as he tried to put the universes together.  There was also a character named Pariah, whose punishment for some transgression was to pop from one universe to the next, unable to do anything but watch as the Anti-Monitor destroyed them, but I don't think we've seen anyone like that (and who knows if he would serve the TV version of the story).

I started rereading COIE for the first time in YEARS and Lyla does split herself up so our Lyla could very well be a part of Harbinger that was meant to gain intel on E1. I think they should introduce Pariah towards the end of the season in The Flash or Supergirl and have pop up at random points up until the crossover.

21 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

 Basically, they wanted to get rid of some old characters to try out some new ones (like with Barry) or to accomplish other issues the higher ups had (Kara was probably killed because they wanted Superman to be the only Kyptonian around), and make things easier to follow for new people. 

Yeah she was killed off to make Supes the only surviving Kryptonian again. Its why STAS had to rename Kara Zor-El into Kara In-Ze since they banned the use of a direct Kryptonian.

[shantown]

4 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

I’m far more worried about this being a way to wrap up Legends (among other things), considering its drooping ratings and apparent budget concerns (to the extent that they’re writing in-show jokes about it).  

Well I wasn't worried about this before, but now I sure am. Would be a huge bummer. Maybe some characters will return to other shows? Ughhhh now I'm stressed!

[BkWurm1]

On 12/20/2018 at 12:38 PM, Primal Slayer said:

While iZombie is part of DC even though its not part of their main brand, Riverdale/Sabrina have nothing to do with DC. The only connection they have is Berlanti. 

Riverdale filmed on the Smallville Kent Farm.  And it's  a comic.  I'm counting it, lol.  (I know, irrational but Riverdale is about as over the top as any superhero show)

[Proteus]

8 hours ago, shantown said:

Well I wasn't worried about this before, but now I sure am. Would be a huge bummer. Maybe some characters will return to other shows? Ughhhh now I'm stressed!

There's nothing to be stressed, worried, or bummed out about. There's no way they are going to use the next crossover to end Legends Of Tomorrow. Just like they aren't going to use it to end Arrow, Supergirl, or Flash.

There have been no reports of Legends having budget problems & live Neilson ratings mean nothing to the CW. There not all that bad anyway or much lower than the other shows. Cast members said at the recent HVFF that watching on the CW app is what matters, not the live ratings.

Edited December 22, 2018 by Proteus

[BkWurm1]

6 hours ago, Proteus said:

There have been no reports of Legends having budget problems

There have been indications of how expensive it was from the beginning.  The cost of so many suits, and all the CGI for powers, just the fact that they have never gotten a full season run, the large cast, all the on location filming, the specialized period costumes.  They did a whole meta episode about how expensive the Legend's are and included some specific items like wardrobe and condiments that wouldn't actually have cost the Time Bureau anything (all that stuff was supposed to be manufactured by Gideon on the ship) so how it could be anything else but meta, I don't know.  The Time Bureau set saves them time and money along with anytime they can film on the Waverider.  And we see far less of the flashy powers.  You can see where they are saving money but I'm hoping they've made the adjustments needed to be kept around.  

Edited December 22, 2018 by BkWurm1

[Proteus]

I remember in one interview last year that Marc Guggenheim shot down the speculations that Legends Of Tomorrow has budget problems/issues. The Flash & Supergirl use just as much special effects and Legends cast is no bigger than the other shows.

I never read into episode 4x6 as the show taking shots at BTS issues they are having. The same goes for Nates speech at the end which I know some did as well.

So far IMO, nothing shows that Legends is any danger.

[tv echo]

"Elseworlds" To Re-Air in January
By RUSS BURLINGAME - December 20, 2018
https://comicbook.com/dc/2018/12/21/elseworlds-to-re-air-in-janury/

Quote

The CW will re-air the entire "Elseworlds" crossover event on January 7 and 8, according to their latest primetime listings.
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The first two parts of "Elseworlds" will air on Monday, January 7, at 8 p.m. ET/PT and 9 p.m. The following day, the Supergirl finale will air at 8 p.m. ET/PT, followed by a one-hour special, EA Sports Madden NFL 19 Classic.

[BkWurm1]

2 hours ago, Proteus said:

I remember in one interview last year that Marc Guggenheim shot down the speculations that Legends Of Tomorrow has budget problems/issues. The Flash & Supergirl use just as much special effects and Legends cast is no bigger than the other shows.

I never read into episode 4x6 as the show taking shots at BTS issues they are having. The same goes for Nates speech at the end which I know some did as well.

So far IMO, nothing shows that Legends is any danger.

I'm glad MG has never lied or misled us about anything. 😁

[Proteus]

If you want to look at it that way of course you can. I'm not going to assume Legends has budget issues unless I see concrete evidence. JMO.

[legaleagle53]

On 12/21/2018 at 8:52 AM, MarkHB said:

Honestly, I think that, with Arrow being in its seventh season which is usually when the actors' contracts run out (and they want more money), there's a good chance that Oliver will die and Arrow will end, with Batwoman taking over its spot in the schedule come January 2020. I can't imagine Diggle becoming Green Lantern unless it's an end-of-series reward and he gets spirited off to Oa for training, because GL would be too expensive to do on the CW on a regular basis.

One thing about Lyta Michaels: in the original Crisis, a character by that name was essentially an adoptive daughter of the Monitor, who became Harbinger (occasionally Lyta's code name on Arrow) and served as his herald as he tried to put the universes together.  There was also a character named Pariah, whose punishment for some transgression was to pop from one universe to the next, unable to do anything but watch as the Anti-Monitor destroyed them, but I don't think we've seen anyone like that (and who knows if he would serve the TV version of the story).

Lyla. Harbinger's name was Lyla, and she was nearly as powerful as the Monitor during the Crisis.

[MarkHB]

2 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Lyla. Harbinger's name was Lyla, and she was nearly as powerful as the Monitor during the Crisis.

Fair enough; I haven't reread it in 30 years and I don't watch Arrow regularly, so I got her name wrong.