Spoiler Discussion Thread: The Sequel

[KenyaJ]

Quote

With Black Siren pretty much totally reformed by this point, you can see why the actress might feel she’s done all she can with her dual role.

I know why a lot of her fans wanted it, but this was always the obvious outcome of a Siren redemption. It's not that the writers couldn't find things to do with a redeemed BS, just that they weren't going to bother. She had more utility as a villain.

[lemotomato]

That site is unreliable and has posted a lot of vague rumors as though they were facts, always attributing a mysterious "source". I wouldn't believe any of their articles as confirmation of anything.

[tv echo]

Sergeant Bingsley is played by actor Danny Wattley...

More hilarious fan takes on that 715 promo pic...

(source)

Edited March 8, 2019 by tv echo

[Chaser]

Seems like kind of a nothing article. They don’t even know if she’s exiting in S7 or S8. I think we can guess a fair number of Arrow characters are leaving the Arrowverse after Arrow ends. 

[insomniadreams88]

For the first time probably ever, I’m looking forward to at least one SCPD scene. The power of Felicity. 

[CabotCove]

On 3/7/2019 at 4:31 AM, Simba122504 said:

AI also don't want Oliver to die. All that for nothing? What was the point? 

Disagree, his death would have huge impact across this multiverse, they have created. His legacy will be even bigger in death....with this ending. Its a happy ending, in a twisted way....😉

Just an Opinion.

Edited March 8, 2019 by WonderArtist

[lemotomato]

10 minutes ago, WonderArtist said:

Disagree, his death would have huge impact across this multiverse, they have created. His legacy will be even bigger in death....with this ending. Its a happy ending, in a twisted way....😉

Just an Opinion.

Oliver offering his life as a sacrifice to save everyone else isn’t a happy ending, it’s what he does every. single. season. So for his story to end definitively that way is pointless. It means he’s learned nothing and earned nothing. It’s not happy in any way, shape, or form.

Just an opinion.

Edited March 8, 2019 by lemotomato

[Morrigan2575]

4 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Oliver offering his life as a sacrifice to save everyone else isn’t a happy ending, it’s what he does every. single. season. So for his story to end definitively that way is pointless. It means he’s learned nothing and earned nothing. It’s not happy in any way, shape, or form.

Just an opinion.

I really hope they don't sacrifice Arrow and/or Oliver on the steps of the Arrowverse.  However, I can see that kind of twisted logic coming into play.  I just hope they give Arrow the ending any show deserves by, making it all about Arrow and NOT about the Arrowverse.  I remember years ago when Buffy ended Angel showed up in the penultimate episode, not the series finale because it wasn't about Angel or even B/A, it was about Buffy (the show/character) ending and they had to honor that.  

Arrow has gotten screwed over many times already for the Arrowverse (parts of S2, S4 and even their 100th episode), I really hope they don't make the finale about the crossover and give Arrow a 2 hour send off all it's own.

[lemotomato]

I hope at least WB/CW execs have the business sense to realize that ending a series with the titular hero dead is not going to help the longevity of post-airing rewatches of the series and they won’t sign off on a tragic ending, no matter what the show runners want to do. 

[CabotCove]

Quote

Oliver offering his life as a sacrifice to save everyone else isn’t a happy ending, it’s what he does every. every.single. season. , it’s what he does every.single. season. So for his story to end definitively that way is pointless. It means he’s learned nothing and earned nothing. It’s not happy in any way, shape, or form.

Just an opinion.

The way I see it he already has his happy ending, he married, he has kids, inspired a legacy of heroes...

Perhaps he woudnt die saving everyone, but some other way...

To me a happy ending is if they will be able to fix the issues of the character [ and the show], such that he leaves with some dignity and an incredible legacy, not whether he is dead or alive. Or who he is with or not....JMO. 

[way2interested]

I just think they wouldn't end it with him dead since people (and we're not talking super fans, but like mainstream reporting) already guess he'd "die" in the next crossover.  

[Morrigan2575]

20 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I hope at least WB/CW execs have the business sense to realize that ending a series with the titular hero dead is not going to help the longevity of post-airing rewatches of the series and they won’t sign off on a tragic ending, no matter what the show runners want to do. 

I would agree but, Plec got away with killing off the 2 leads of The Originals and she got a spin-off with early renewal to boot.  So, sadly i really can't rule out Oliver getting killed off as an ending.  However, my hope is that since the plan (apparently) was to kill off Oliver to setup Arrow S8/9 continuing without SA.  Then now that they realized they can't make that work they'll actually give Oliver a semi-happy ending, just not in the Arrowverse.  Like @Starfish35 suggested, Olicity+Mia/Will go to another universe to live in safety.  Or Oliver fakes his death, or hell, Oliver loses an arm so he can't be GA anymore and retires.  

[Mellowyellow]

Wouldn't sacrificing Oliver for the Arrowverse make any Arrow fan who didn't want him to die rage and drop or refuse to watch the other shows out of spite?

I assume the fans of all the other Arrowverse shows will keep watching their shows and not really give two figs about Arrow or Oliver. But there will be a lot of ill will created if they sacrifice Oliver at the Arrowverse altar.

***

@Morrigan2575 did Plec's new show have a solid fanbase? Because most other things besides OTA and Olicity have been such flops I am hoping it doesn't go that way. 

Edited March 8, 2019 by Mellowyellow

[JJ928]

Could the fact the neither TVD nor The Originals got syndication play into the network being less concerned over the ending? Arrow is already syndicated.

Edited March 8, 2019 by JJ928

[JJ928]

.

Edited March 8, 2019 by JJ928
deleted because it double posted

[scarynikki12]

I wouldn't look to Plec's shows as an indication of anything.  The leads who died were vampires who had spent centuries murdering, raping, and/or enslaving humans and deserved to die.  I know it wasn't presented that way but that's why a lot of people were fine with that outcome.  I was more annoyed that Damon got a happily ever after rather than dying the painful death he deserved.

I really don't think the show will end with Oliver dead.  The public may think he's dead, as it's probably the only way to get the people of Star City to say anything nice about him, but I think he'll get to live out his life with his family and no longer have to be the one to save everyone.  If he end the series dead they run the risk of pissing off or scaring their audience.  The viewers who primarily watch Arrow may choose to give up on the remaining shows while the viewers who primarily watch the other shows may start to worry that their shows will follow suit.  It's an unnecessary risk.  This show isn't Breaking Bad or even Vampire Diaries, where the leads dying makes sense and is the only logical conclusion.  I think they'll do their final copy from Nolan and have Oliver be dead to the public while select individuals get to know the truth. 

[Chaser]

48 minutes ago, WonderArtist said:

The way I see it he already has his happy ending, he married, he has kids, inspired a legacy of heroes...

Perhaps he woudnt die saving everyone, but some other way...

To me a happy ending is if they will be able to fix the issues of the character [ and the show], such that he leaves with some dignity and an incredible legacy, not whether he is dead or alive. Or who he is with or not....JMO. 

Out of curiosity, how would him dying rewrite the character or the show for you? What scenario is suddenly going to give him the dignity and legacy he apparently lacks?

He could die saving the world in the final two minutes but its not going to magically give him a van dyke and a pretty bird.

[KenyaJ]

4 hours ago, tv echo said:

More hilarious fan takes on that 715 promo pic...

Here's another one. I'm loving all the fan art this picture sparked.

[Cleanqueen]

Oliver dying is predictable and a somber end for a hero that tried hard to stay alive this long.

He isn't a bad person who committed crimes against humanity, he is a hero who time and time again sacrificed himself for a city and people who never deserved it.

My ultimate ending is for him and his family to leave star city for a time being so they can find solace somewhere else. This way if he is needed for future guest appearances and crossovers, he can come back.

And I dont think DC or WB wants their titular character to die period.

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, JJ928 said:

Could the fact the neither TVD nor The Originals got syndication play into the network being less concerned over the ending? Arrow is already syndicated.

I think TVD was syndicated i want to say i saw it on one of the cable channels but, don't quote me.

1 hour ago, scarynikki12 said:

I wouldn't look to Plec's shows as an indication of anything. 

Never said it was an indication of anything, i just said you can't rule out the WB/CW allowing the lead characters to be killed off when The Originals killed off Klaus/Elijah and TVD killed off Stefan and it didn't hurt Legacies.   You could also add Angel to that list, if you wanted to, since the show pretty much ends with them all about to die (Butch/Cassidy style) but, that was a WB/WB show.  

I'm not saying they will kill off Oliver, I was one of the first ones to say i don't think they will.  All I'm saying is that if you think it will never happen because the CW/WB won't allow a show to end by killing of it's leads...well they haven't objected so far. 

Personally i think it comes down more to what Berlanti and Co think is the best way for Arrow to end.  Do they sacrifice Arrow/Oliver on the altar of the Arrowverse or do they allow the show to have it's own identity and ending?  If they treat Arrow right (as a mothership) and pay it tribute then Oliver will get a reasonable (IMO) ending.  If they use it one last time to prop the Arrowverse then they will probably kill off Oliver to save Barry or something lame making it all about Flash

Edited March 8, 2019 by Morrigan2575

[JJ928]

5 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I think TVD was syndicated i want to say i saw it on one of the cable channels but, don't quote me.

I remember reading something during their last season, questioning why after 8 season it hadn't been syndicated. I don't know if that changed after the fact but I did a guide search on my tv, and it's not on the schedule at all here whereas other CW shows are.

[statsgirl]

2 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Wouldn't sacrificing Oliver for the Arrowverse make any Arrow fan who didn't want him to die rage and drop or refuse to watch the other shows out of spite?

I assume the fans of all the other Arrowverse shows will keep watching their shows and not really give two figs about Arrow or Oliver. But there will be a lot of ill will created if they sacrifice Oliver at the Arrowverse altar.

I wonder if the fact that Arrow's fandom really seems to be the most energetic on-line will affect things.

I may watch LoT, maybe, but that will be about it. None of the other shows engage me as much and definitely I will be pissed off if they kill Oliver having put in 7 1/2 years rooting for him to have a happy ending.

Actors and writers are far happier to kill of their characters than the audience is to have them killed off. Babylon 5 did it best when Sheridan died in the last episode which was a 20 year time jump and you knew it was coming for at least 2 season ago since that was the price for saving the universe and I still hated it and won't watch that episode again.

2 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

I really don't think the show will end with Oliver dead.  The public may think he's dead, as it's probably the only way to get the people of Star City to say anything nice about him, but I think he'll get to live out his life with his family and no longer have to be the one to save everyone.  If he end the series dead they run the risk of pissing off or scaring their audience.  The viewers who primarily watch Arrow may choose to give up on the remaining shows while the viewers who primarily watch the other shows may start to worry that their shows will follow suit.  It's an unnecessary risk.  This show isn't Breaking Bad or even Vampire Diaries, where the leads dying makes sense and is the only logical conclusion.  I think they'll do their final copy from Nolan and have Oliver be dead to the public while select individuals get to know the truth. 

Agree with all of this.

And we know how much Berlanti and Guggenheim love their TDK/Oliver parallels.

[Trisha]

3 hours ago, lemotomato said:

I hope at least WB/CW execs have the business sense to realize that ending a series with the titular hero dead is not going to help the longevity of post-airing rewatches of the series and they won’t sign off on a tragic ending, no matter what the show runners want to do.

Also, SA seemed to indicate in his FB Live that he was willing to pop back into the DCTV universe at some point in the future. If the execs knew what they were doing, they would try to keep the possibility of him coming back for the crossovers wide open. Arrow fans who don't watch any of the other shows would tune in to check in on how/what Oliver's doing. Yeah, I guess they could use SA and make him play an Earth 74 version of Oliver or whatever, but that wouldn't have as much of an impact.

Story-wise, I feel like they've been foreshadowing him surviving. Beyond the "don't fight to die, fight to live" stuff, there's been more recent things like last season (presumably after SA started having talks about leaving) when Oliver told his lawyer that he hoped "one day my mission would end and I would finally, after all this time, get a chance to actually live my life."  

[Chaser]

I think story wise this entire season sets up him living. The Crossover reads like a big red herring and why show the FFs if not to fix them?

[CabotCove]

11 hours ago, Chaser said:

Out of curiosity, how would him dying rewrite the character or the show for you? What scenario is suddenly going to give him the dignity and legacy he apparently lacks?

I dont know as I never said that. Just saying that in these series finale seasons, usually they do spend time fixing [not rewriting] whatever lose ends, issues,mistakes the character/s have. They have 10 episode to do that, if they want to. A death ending is a separate issue, just saying i could see the story potential of that. 

Quote

He could die saving the world in the final two minutes but its not going to magically give him a van dyke and a pretty bird.

And again, I never said any of this...so i got nothing on that.

Edited March 9, 2019 by WonderArtist

[Soulfire]

[apinknightmare]

8 minutes ago, WonderArtist said:

I dont know as I never said that. Just saying that in these series finale seasons, usually they do spend time fixing [not rewriting] whatever lose ends, issues,mistakes the character/s have. They have 10 episode to do that, if they want to. A death ending is a seperate issue. 

You wrote it right here:

5 hours ago, WonderArtist said:

To me a happy ending is if they will be able to fix the issues of the character [ and the show], such that he leaves with some dignity and an incredible legacy, not whether he is dead or alive. Or who he is with or not....JMO. 

[Starfish35]

I think that my guess on whether Oliver dies or not depends on where the finale falls.  If they have an episode or two to wrap things up after the crossover, then no, I’d be very surprised if they killed him off.  I mean, shows have killed off their leads before the series finales before (looking at you, Major Crimes), but it’s not typical.  

If, however, the series finale IS part of the crossover, then I think the odds of him dying go up.  I would still lean toward him not dying, just because that’s what everyone expects right now and these writers love their “gotcha” twists, but I wouldn’t totally rule it out either.

As for whether they should kill him, I’m very firmly in the “No“ camp.  It would add nothing to the value of the show just to have a shock unhappy ending.  Some shows earn that, but this is not one of them.

Edited March 8, 2019 by Starfish35

[Soulfire]

Quote

LAUREL TEAMS UP WITH OLIVER — Laurel (Katie Cassidy Rodgers) learns about some damaging information that affects Emiko (Sea Shimooka). Always looking to protect his sister, Oliver (Stephen Amell) invites Laurel to help investigate, which makes Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) happy as her friend is now working with the team. However, when things go awry, Felicity is forced to make a choice between the team and Laurel. Patia Prouty directed the episode written by Sarah Tarkhoff & Elizabeth Kim (#717). Original airdate 3/25/2019.

http://www.greenarrowtv.com/arrow-spoilers-laurel-helps-oliver-in-inheritance/

[Trisha]

You know how they always give characters a big episode before their sendoff?

(ETA: duplicate description as @Soulfire)

Edited March 8, 2019 by Trisha

[Chaser]

Oh she’s gone. 

[apinknightmare]

Quote

Oliver (Stephen Amell) invites Laurel to help investigate, which makes Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) happy as her friend is now working with the team. 

Thanks for spelling that out for us, Chico!

[Chaser]

The whole thing is lmao. 

[insomniadreams88]

Why can I see 

Quote

LAUREL TEAMS UP WITH OLIVER  ... Oliver (Stephen Amell) invites Laurel to help investigate, which makes Felicity (Emily Bett Rickards) happy as her friend is now working with the team.

really being Felicity telling Oliver they could use Laurel's help, especially since she finds out whatever the information is, and Oliver agreeing, instead of what it sounds like, which is Oliver wanting to work with Laurel/the two of them partnering up? 

[apinknightmare]

6 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Why can I see 

really being Felicity telling Oliver they could use Laurel's help, especially since she finds out whatever the information is, and Oliver agreeing, instead of what it sounds like, which is Oliver wanting to work with Laurel/the two of them partnering up? 

C'mon, his comment about almost liking Laurel was leading up to this triumphant moment!

Edited March 8, 2019 by apinknightmare

[lemotomato]

4 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Why can I see 

really being Felicity telling Oliver they could use Laurel's help, especially since she finds out whatever the information is, and Oliver agreeing, instead of what it sounds like, which is Oliver wanting to work with Laurel/the two of them partnering up? 

Chico’s been waiting for 2 years for the chance to write that headline. This is probably the closest opportunity she’ll get.

[insomniadreams88]

This is the last episode before a 2-week break, right? It's totally ending with Laurel going evil — or at least doing something evil-ish or that appears evil — to lead into "Lost Canary."

[Morrigan2575]

14 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

This is the last episode before a 2-week break, right? It's totally ending with Laurel going evil — or at least doing something evil-ish or that appears evil — to lead into "Lost Canary."

And you people mocked me when I said she would go evil! LOL 😈

Edited March 8, 2019 by Morrigan2575

[CabotCove]

3 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

You wrote it right here: To me a happy ending is if they will be able to fix the issues of the character [ and the show], such that he leaves with some dignity and an incredible legacy, not whether he is dead or alive. Or who he is with or not....JMO. 

Oh I see, I guesss my points are combined but they are separate points, somewhat. I mean fixing while he is still alive, using the finale season. Just improving and polishing up characters, like most shows do when ending. And saying Im not against a death ending, and what it could mean for his legacy...Right or wrong, its just my preference.

And when I say fixing Im talking about things like character growth, better heroism, dropped lose ends  etc. Same for the other characters. Just my perspective, not married to any ending, heck I may end up not even watching when the end comes...Its a long time from now...

Edited March 9, 2019 by WonderArtist

[Angel12d]

Why did that episode description read like bad fan fiction? Oh Chico. 😬😂

Edited March 8, 2019 by Angel12d

[CabotCove]

double post

Edited March 8, 2019 by WonderArtist

[Morrigan2575]

I wanted to edit my post but, I think that emoji messed it up.

While I do think Not-Laurel does go "evil" in 717. I fully expect her to be redeemed in 718 as part of her exit. I don't think she will be killed off just go away (jail, E2, E-?, future/past)

Edited March 8, 2019 by Morrigan2575

[apinknightmare]

I'm guessing we're going to get a surprise evil turn since there hasn't been any indication whatsoever Laurel's not being honest about wanting to be better. And there have been some clues that could easily be dismissed as other things - her typing away on her phone at Oliver & Felicity's, her sudden reluctance to kill Diaz - who I'm betting is not dead and was initiated into the 9th circle by being burned to a crispy critter. 

Maybe Laurel's working with Dante and the whole thing with Oliver is a set-up to lead him into a trap? Although how they could redeem her before an exit (if she does exit) the very next episode...IDK. So it's probably not that. 

[Starfish35]

Maybe she mysteriously disappears, and the “Lost” part of the title is literal?

[apinknightmare]

6 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Maybe she mysteriously disappears, and the “Lost” part of the title is literal?

Maybe - but she isn't a Canary? I guess if Dinah's screamer doesn't work they could always anoint Laurel as one in episode 17. The Black Black Canary the second? 

[Angel12d]

Who is Felicity gonna choose? Laurel or the team? Sad that I feel it could go either way at this point. That being said, I’m not sure her choosing LL leads to LL feeling the need to suit up as BS in 718, as we know from BTS pics. I’d guess Felicity chooses the team and LL revolts? IDK. 

[statsgirl]

42 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

Why did that episode description read like bad fan fiction?

Because it's Chico.😁😀

I'm voting for "it looks like Laurel's going evil just before the break but then she swears to good just before she leaves the show."

1 hour ago, Starfish35 said:

I think that my guess on whether Oliver dies or not depends on where the finale falls.  If they have an episode or two to wrap things up after the crossover, then no, I’d be very surprised if they killed him off.  I mean, shows have killed off their leads before the series finales before (looking at you, Major Crimes), but it’s not typical.

IMO, that was such a huge mistake. My daughter stopped watching the show entirely and I won't watch any of the last season again. Sharon had just got married and was happy and there was no in-show reason to kill her and even less of one in terms of t he audience who now have a bad taste about all the seasons. HATE. 

(It just emphasized how much the show runner was a "guys, guys, guys" person. The Closer and Major Crimes may have been headed by a woman but they were both about all the men. I've never seen a show before where half the cast were gay men.)

Also hated Flynn dying on the Timeless movie.  I cannot think of one instance of a favourite character dying in a finale that I enjoyed and want to watch again.

[JenMD]

3 hours ago, Angel12d said:

Why did that episode description read like bad fan fiction? Oh Chico. 😬😂

Seriously.  I suspect that write up is supposed to entice me to watch but it's now more likely I'll just skip it altogether (won't be the first time and I never thought I'd say that about this show).  I ff any scenes with FakeLaurel in them anyway and this sounds like an FL bonanza.  Yech.  I just can't with this ridiculous "friendship" with Felicity they've concocted (and I tried watching a scene with the two of them and couldn't make it through it) so the sooner KC is gone, the better for me. I don't care if she's ultimately good, evil or somewhere in between.  My favorite version of Laurel, of any Earth, is one who is gone.

[kes0704]

I’ll be annoyed if they kill Oliver off and sacrifice Arrow to serve the crossover and the remaining shows. Even if they frame it as Oliver is the hero of superheroes it will still ultimatley ruin the show for me personally.

I don’t watch any of the other shows currently and I’d be unlikely to watch anything new they try to launch if they sacrifice Arrow at the end of its run. Once bitten, twice shy. 

I’m already irritated that the grimmest of grim future timeline their showing us might be due to a S8 crossover. They need to fix what they’ve set in motion with that and give Arrow the ending it deserves. Oliver fighting to right his fathers wrongs and save the city for 7-plus years only to have it end in his death because of a universe bending crossover wouldn’t be at all satisfying. 

[JamieLynn832002]

Is it bad that I sort of like SCPD shirts because while stupid, it's still a marked improvement from Oliver's current "my wardrobe was replaced by that of a middle-aged professor with no taste" look?

Edited March 9, 2019 by JamieLynn832002
accidentally hit post too early