Target Practice: Poisoned Arrow (The Bitterness Thread)

[apinknightmare]

6 minutes ago, shantown said:

Maybe a speedy binge watch will make the newbies more bearable, if I can sort of fly past it quickly maybe it won't be as painful.

I think it will be at least slightly more bearable if you binge through it and don't have a week (or sometimes longer!) to focus on how awful they are. 

[calliope1975]

17 minutes ago, shantown said:

Okay, I'm sticking with it, if only to be in the trenches with everyone getting to complain in real time!

The live blogs are a highlight of my week, and it's comforting to know that I'm not the only one who feels the way I do (good or bad.) Hang in there! There is some good stuff sprinkled amongst the annoying.

[Chaser]

I've watched long running shows where the cast has changed over the years. I really can't think of a new group of characters I've hated more. 

[Morrigan2575]

24 minutes ago, Chaser said:

I've watched long running shows where the cast has changed over the years. I really can't think of a new group of characters I've hated more. 

Every f*cking Potential Slayer on S7 Buffy

Edited February 6, 2019 by Morrigan2575

[insomniadreams88]

54 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

The live blogs are a highlight of my week, and it's comforting to know that I'm not the only one who feels the way I do (good or bad.) Hang in there! There is some good stuff sprinkled amongst the annoying.

Yeah, the live thread got me through some of season 5. There were definitely aspects of it I liked, but I do remember being so very bitter at times. 

[shantown]

59 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

The live blogs are a highlight of my week, and it's comforting to know that I'm not the only one who feels the way I do (good or bad.) Hang in there! There is some good stuff sprinkled amongst the annoying.

 

4 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Yeah, the live thread got me through some of season 5. There were definitely aspects of it I liked, but I do remember being so very bitter at times. 

I'm not commenting in the episode threads as I go, but I am thoroughly appreciating the old posts there as I watch.  Like others have said, it's good to know I'm not along in my feelings. Misery loves company, haha.

[AudienceofOne]

7 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Curtis is the one that is annoying as all shit.

To think I actually liked him when he was first introduced! An enthused, geeky, openly-gay character who brought such zest to every scene. Now he's just an annoying, one-note tone ruiner.

[Mellowyellow]

I'm hanging on for Olicity but SA's questionable acting is making Olicity lose its lustre. 

I can't even say I'm in this for Felicity since she's not in it that much anymore. She is a delight when she is on-screen though. 

[Morrigan2575]

15 minutes ago, AudienceofOne said:

To think I actually liked him when he was first introduced! An enthused, geeky, openly-gay character who brought such zest to every scene. Now he's just an annoying, one-note tone ruiner.

He was actually good in S4. I can't even say the ruined him in S5 because his character really didn't change, in fact he hasn't grown or matured at all. He's just constant comic relief that more often than not falls flat. I think it comes down to two things, Curtis is fine in small doses but expanding his roll showed a flaw that they couldn't overcome, especially since in late season shows there isn't much effort. The other problem is he doesn't fit on Arrow. He'd fit in LoT or Flash but, on Arrow he just stands out as a sore thumb.

[BkWurm1]

2 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

He was actually good in S4. I can't even say the ruined him in S5 because his character really didn't change, in fact he hasn't grown or matured at all. He's just constant comic relief that more often than not falls flat. I think it comes down to two things, Curtis is fine in small doses but expanding his roll showed a flaw that they couldn't overcome, especially since in late season shows there isn't much effort. The other problem is he doesn't fit on Arrow. He'd fit in LoT or Flash but, on Arrow he just stands out as a sore thumb.

Taking this to the Relationships thread.  

[BunsenBurner]

11 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

I'm still so mad that Oliver and Felicity left William at school over Christmas. What even is the point of that? Even if the writers needed a delayed confrontation so that they could have their drama onscreen instead of during hiatus, why not just have William ask to stay at school over the break? That would make more sense! O/F would allow it because they feel guilty about his life's upheaval, and he went to great lengths to hide the fact that he'd been expelled! He could've just...wanted to stay because of that. It's so disappointing that these people are so plot-focused that they can't even take a second to be even a little bit NOT lazy and fix the slightest thing that could be changed in two simple sentences and doesn't make people look like assholes!

Why didn’t they send him to his grandparents for Christmas because it would have been the right thing to do. I wonder if they no longer exist.

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, BunsenBurner said:

Why didn’t they send him to his grandparents for Christmas because it would have been the right thing to do. I wonder if they no longer exist.

I'm bitter when the show forgets its past canon.  William getting shipped to his Grandparents could still leave him feeling upset when he wanted to go home to his dad and Felicity but nope, they left him as the only kid at school over the holidays.  Ouch.  Two weeks of brooding is not a good plan for anyone with the Queen Genes.  

[JamieLynn832002]

Everything about them leaving him at school for Christmas annoys me. It doesn't make any sense, in Unmasked they were clearly looking forward to him coming home for break and nothing happened that should have changed that. I'm a little iffy on the grandparents since William and Samantha would presumably have been missing for more than a year between Taken and Lian Yu and they apparently didn't report it but I'd have much rather they went with him visiting them than Oliver and Felicity abandoning the child they'd both been missing for months alone at boarding school for no apparent reason.

Edited February 7, 2019 by JamieLynn832002

[lemotomato]

I don’t like the idea that they left him at boarding school over the holidays either, but I think it’s implied they were dealing with what happened in the crossovers during that time. So it wasn’t really for no reason.

[JamieLynn832002]

I do think that's what they were going for but I wish they'd been a little clearer. Of course, now I'm imagining Felicity actually trying to explain and I'm having a hard time seeing William not either thinking she's gone crazy or being angrier because he thinks she's making stuff up (or possibly because they didn't bring him home when his Dad was The Flash) so I'm not sure what I really wanted. Maybe a line in a previous episode about Elseworlds having screwed up their plans to see William would have worked.

[apinknightmare]

Quote

I do think that's what they were going for but I wish they'd been a little clearer.

I agree. There wasn’t any indication that the Flash/Arrow switcheroo happened closer to Christmas than we were in real time. Felicity could’ve even mentioned that they were taking care of a big problem in Central City when William mentioned it.  

Edited February 7, 2019 by apinknightmare

[BkWurm1]

On 2/6/2019 at 11:07 PM, lemotomato said:

I don’t like the idea that they left him at boarding school over the holidays either, but I think it’s implied they were dealing with what happened in the crossovers during that time. So it wasn’t really for no reason.

I agree they were implying it, but It's just the timeline doesn't fit.  Even if we ignore that only at max a week had passed since Oliver and Felicity had had their issue, the whole crossover mess was fixed and wrapped up in a couple days.  Xmas vacation always is at the very least nearly two weeks.  A delay maybe could be explained, but not letting him come home at all makes no sense. Even if they tried to twist the timeline around and claim Oliver and Felicity had been estranged for weeks (which there was NO evidence of) there's no way that either Felicity or Oliver would have let any of their unresolved issues keep William away, not when they'd been apart for so long.  Heck, they'd be thrilled to have him around as a buffer from the awkwardness.  

MG wrote a line that comes with no logical explanation behind it and since it still feels like they are hanging a life long abandonment issue on it, we really need a better explanation for what now comes off as wildly OOC behavior.  And the way they basically left it all on Felicity's head like she was the only one that had a say in making that decision didn't set well with me either.  

If Oliver hadn't been there to identify him as his son in front of the camera crew, anyone casually tuning in would assume Felicity was a single mother.  

[Mellowyellow]

Why have we got THE WORST supporting cast EVER!? Like EVER!!!!!!!!!!!

The Supergirl, LoT additions are charming.

I even like Ralph. All we have for Arrow are stank losers! WHY????!!!!!!

[way2interested]

18 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Why have we got THE WORST supporting cast EVER!? Like EVER!!!!!!!!!!!

The Supergirl, LoT additions are charming.

I even like Ralph. All we have for Arrow are stank losers! WHY????!!!!!!

MAJORLY disagree. All of the supporting characters from all of the show have the same amount of takeover as Arrow's. Ralph was awful in the beginning, now Nora has crossed into annoying, I majorly dislike Nate and Ava was one of the dullest characters introduced and Constantine has almost taken over the show, and Mon-el had his own drama and Nia makes no sense and continues to be more illogical the more they use her. The only leg up Arrow has on the others is that it's been on longer.

[jay741982]

25 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Why have we got THE WORST supporting cast EVER!? Like EVER!!!!!!!!!!!

The Supergirl, LoT additions are charming.

I even like Ralph. All we have for Arrow are stank losers! WHY????!!!!!!

I was thinking this basically watching Supergirl earlier. I love Brainy and Nia, plus Manchester Black and Agent Liberty are better Antagonists than Diaz, on Flash I wasnt a fan of Ralph last season or Nora earlier this season and now both dont annoy me or drive to hate them like Rene and Dinah have. On LOT I like Ava and Gary, and Nate doesnt annoy me like he used to

[jay741982]

7 minutes ago, way2interested said:

MAJORLY disagree. All of the supporting characters from all of the show have the same amount of takeover as Arrow's. Ralph was awful in the beginning, now Nora has crossed into annoying, I majorly dislike Nate and Ava was one of the dullest characters introduced and Constantine has almost taken over the show, and Mon-el had his own drama and Nia makes no sense and continues to be more illogical the more they use her. The only leg up Arrow has on the others is that it's been on longer.

The only one of these characters you mentioned I ever hated was Mon-El season 2. But they toned him down then wrote him out.  Rene and Dinah earned my hatred from last season and the fact its glossed over and Writers have Oliver and Felicity be friends with those losers. Plus Diggle being Pod Diggle. And watching Everyone that pissed me off last season not get misery piled on like Olicity has 

[way2interested]

5 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

The only one of these characters you mentioned I ever hated was Mon-El season 2. But they toned him down then wrote him out.  Rene and Dinah earned my hatred from last season and the fact its glossed over and Writers have Oliver and Felicity be friends with those losers. Plus Diggle being Pod Diggle. And watching Everyone that pissed me off last season not get misery piled on like Olicity has 

Difference of opinion then, since I hate and continue to hate Nate even more than the newbies, still disliked Mon-el from beginning to end, still dislike Nora, and still dislike Nia, all characters (along with Ralph in the previous season) that their respective shows shift major focus to away from their main characters. Arrow may have kept theirs, but all of the shows do the exact same thing, so it's more of a preference of whether one minds it being one character for several seasons or several seasons with different characters each time. 

[bijoux]

On 2/6/2019 at 4:09 PM, KenyaJ said:

No, you're not. I said the other day on Twitter that Olicity is holding me hostage to this show, and nothing has ever been more true. I actually tried to quit the show after 505, but stupid brought me back with 510. And as flat, uninteresting and infuriating as I find the show right now, I still tune in every week because I love these two so much.

Anyway, S5 is a slog, but I really liked 510 and 512. Everything from 517-523 is good too. The show and Oliver felt like themselves again once he and Felicity were allowed to act like two people who used to be engaged. 519 is really good, the first half of 522 is super fun, and I think 520 is probably my favorite episode of the series. 

Like @BkWurm1 said, S6 Oliver is my favorite of the series, even though he makes some unfortunate martyr-ish decisions at the end of the season. OTA makes a great comeback in the middle of the season, though it goes downhill rapidly around 615. And if you're like many of us, you'll spend every moment after 609 wishing death upon the newbies. Honestly, I would skip their scenes altogether, even the ones especially the ones with OTA, because they are infuriating. But Olicity are perfect throughout the entire season, and 604, 611, and 618 are certifiably great, IMO. 

IDEK what to tell you about S7. It's a frustrating, directionless mess right now. I'm praying the second half gets better, but certainly not holding my breath.

This is the most frustrating part of this season, that it seems to have no clue where it’s going as they throw everything at the wall to see what sticks.

Due to reasons unrelated to this show (nothing bad, lest someone worries) I didn’t watch the last two episodes aside from some clips on Youtube. I actually had the time to catch up this weekend, but didn’t and I’m leaning more on more rowards just binging it all when the season is over. Things might be more frustrating that way.

On 2/6/2019 at 4:16 PM, apinknightmare said:

I'm still so mad that Oliver and Felicity left William at school over Christmas. What even is the point of that? Even if the writers needed a delayed confrontation so that they could have their drama onscreen instead of during hiatus, why not just have William ask to stay at school over the break? That would make more sense! O/F would allow it because they feel guilty about his life's upheaval, and he went to great lengths to hide the fact that he'd been expelled! He could've just...wanted to stay because of that. It's so disappointing that these people are so plot-focused that they can't even take a second to be even a little bit NOT lazy and fix the slightest thing that could be changed in two simple sentences and doesn't make people look like assholes!

On 2/7/2019 at 6:07 AM, lemotomato said:

I don’t like the idea that they left him at boarding school over the holidays either, but I think it’s implied they were dealing with what happened in the crossovers during that time. So it wasn’t really for no reason.

Eh, what happened in the crossover actually made them stronger as a couple so I really don’t think the writers thought this through. I’m going to throw in the school as something that makes me bitter as well. What kind of dumbasses (tm Red Forman) don’t make damn sure to contact the parents of an underage boaring kid and have them pick him up???!!! Yes, he made a fake website, but I seriously doubt 13-year-old Will made clones to fool the school. If fake Laurel sued them for gross negligence, she might actually score a point or two in my book.

[BkWurm1]

16 hours ago, jay741982 said:

I was thinking this basically watching Supergirl earlier. I love Brainy and Nia, plus Manchester Black and Agent Liberty are better Antagonists than Diaz, on Flash I wasnt a fan of Ralph last season or Nora earlier this season and now both dont annoy me or drive to hate them like Rene and Dinah have. On LOT I like Ava and Gary, and Nate doesnt annoy me like he used to

While I do think that Supergirl is having a really strong season, I think in part why I have less issues with some of the side characters on the other shows is because I just don't care enough to stay upset when they do something generally annoying. 

I hated Ralph last year but they did fix his character a lot this year and I'm not invested as much in the characters that he takes focus from so I'm not as resentful I guess.  And also I think some of that explains why Nora has never really bothered me.  On Legends, if Nate vanished, I would move on pretty quickly, but the show's worn me down and made me accept him. 

But that's a lot easier to do since it has not used him or any other character to bash my favs over and over again.  Even Constantine, he's snarky and antagonistic but it's not personal and his character is softening the more we see him.  

Rene and Dinah and Curtis were about as awful "good guys" that I've EVER seen on any show.  And then they never were even sorry or remorseful.  I don't see how the writers think we are just going to forget.  But that's the path the show's chosen. 

I guess I don't think it is that the other shows are writing side characters so much better, but that Arrow wrote them SOOOOO much worse while also having made me love the main characters so much more.     

[statsgirl]

14 hours ago, bijoux said:

This is the most frustrating part of this season, that it seems to have no clue where it’s going as they throw everything at the wall to see what sticks.

It happens most seasons about this time. In season 2 Oliver was having PDAs with Sara and barely knew Felicity existed other than on comms. In season 3, she was sleeping with Ray and Oliver & Digg were leaving her out of their decisions. Season 4 Oliver was visiting William in Central City while avoiding Felicity's hospital bed and then they broke up. Season 5 they were still apart at this point. Season 6 was the outlier because they saved the worst part for the finale.

11 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

While I do think that Supergirl is having a really strong season, I think in part why I have less issues with some of the side characters on the other shows is because I just don't care enough to stay upset when they do something generally annoying. 

I hated Ralph last year but they did fix his character a lot this year and I'm not invested as much in the characters that he takes focus from so I'm not as resentful I guess.  And also I think some of that explains why Nora has never really bothered me.  On Legends, if Nate vanished, I would move on pretty quickly, but the show's worn me down and made me accept him. 

But that's a lot easier to do since it has not used him or any other character to bash my favs over and over again.  Even Constantine, he's snarky and antagonistic but it's not personal and his character is softening the more we see him.  

Rene and Dinah and Curtis were about as awful "good guys" that I've EVER seen on any show.  And then they never were even sorry or remorseful.  I don't see how the writers think we are just going to forget.  But that's the path the show's chosen. 

I guess I don't think it is that the other shows are writing side characters so much better, but that Arrow wrote them SOOOOO much worse while also having made me love the main characters so much more.     

All of THIS.  Legends of Tomorrow has enough characters that there are some I like when I don't like others. For the other 2 shows, I don't like Barry or Kara enough to want to see more of them than I'm getting, in fact I'm happier seeing the secondary characters.  It's only Arrow that I dislike the support staff of Rene, Dinah and Curtis enough to wish they didn't appear at all, and the other characters to be on less so that I can see Oliver and Felicity, especially Felicity. And that includes PodDiggle.

I'm really tired of everyone dumping on Oliver in the present and Felicity in the future. Even Emiko is doing it now instead of teaming up with him.

[bijoux]

1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

It happens most seasons about this time. In season 2 Oliver was having PDAs with Sara and barely knew Felicity existed other than on comms. In season 3, she was sleeping with Ray and Oliver & Digg were leaving her out of their decisions. Season 4 Oliver was visiting William in Central City while avoiding Felicity's hospital bed and then they broke up. Season 5 they were still apart at this point. Season 6 was the outlier because they saved the worst part for the finale.

I’m not talking about the regularly scheduled secnd part of the season slog. The previous seasons at least had working towards the big bad. This one doesn’t. Diaz was ridiculous even when he was free, but he only got more so since he’s been captured. And I guess Dante is supposed to be the next in line but there’s not much about him/her/them so far. 

[BkWurm1]

Quote

I'm really tired of everyone dumping on Oliver in the present and Felicity in the future. Even Emiko is doing it now instead of teaming up with him.

Really good point.  Do any of you know of any other show that regularly does this to their heroes?

[jay741982]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

Really good point.  Do any of you know of any other show that regularly does this to their heroes?

That's what Arrow does. Dumps on The leading man and Woman while unlikeable characters thrive and get better lives. 

[Mary0360]

17 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

It is when you think you're more clever than you really are. 

Right?

This whole season is a convuluted jumbled pointless mess, and the thing that annoys me is its 100% unnecessary. There are easy, interesting ways to advance the story forward and still get the same outcomes then the aimless 'gotcha' driven poorly written way Beth and co have chosen. Arrow has never required the height of intelligence to watch it but it feels like the show has gotten dumber this season if that's possible. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

1 hour ago, way2interested said:

Idk, imo the Olicity in this season has been great, especially since most of it were scenes/moments that were unexpected or didn't think were going to be included. Like,

• "Oliver only interacts with Diggle in 701" Jk, Olicity have the biggest scene in the episode, along with a parallel fight scene that was also unexpected
• "The writers neglect to reference how Olicity are married in s6" Oliver and Felicity refer to each other as husband and wife in every episode they are apart, with Oliver being the driving force of Felicity's plot in 705 and Felicity and William being triggers for Oliver throughout the prison arc
• "We'll miss out on a reunion scene" They actually free up over one full minute for Olicity to reunite, including a kiss
• Olicity got an anniversary reference, still continuing to reference they are married multiple times more than s6
• "Olicity will be left in turmoil after 708" As if Beth knew that would be the reaction, the Arrow episode ends with Olicity reuniting (with an infamous "love of my life" line never before said) and get a kiss while WestAllen don't
• Felicity being pregnant, 2 years ago no one would have thought that would happen in-show unless the finale
• "William is gone for good, we'll never see Olicity be parents to him now" Olicity still get to be parents to William
• "I hope that we'll get a reveal scene, but knowing these writers, probably not" It may have been short, but there was one, after it was believed there might not be at all
• Olicity has a whole scene of Oliver telling Felicity that he's on her side even on killing Diaz
• Olicity have a whole subplot over being new expectant parents
• Olicity have a whole scene discussing baby names
• A birthing scene, also may be short, but no one expected one at all
• etc

I get that maybe these aren't crazy defining 320-sex scene levels important, but I hardly think these and others were lacking in quality.

What I'm getting with this is how bad Arrow writers have been at providing important emotional beats for the characters that viewers have started expecting the worst -- and then we're supposed to be glad and grateful that they did the bare minimum.

[Mellowyellow]

3 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

What I'm getting with this is how bad Arrow writers have been at providing important emotional beats for the characters that viewers have started expecting the worst -- and then we're supposed to be glad and grateful that they did the bare minimum.

I am pretty sure Rene and the bird had scenes during one of the episodes where I bitched about Olicity being shortchanged.

It's all "blah blah blah" to me since I don't pay attention to those two but I recall thinking the Olicity scenes were abrupt and why did we need to see the bozos conversing.

If they knew this was her last season, why not cut down on the bozos a bit.

[way2interested]

6 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

What I'm getting with this is how bad Arrow writers have been at providing important emotional beats for the characters that viewers have started expecting the worst -- and then we're supposed to be glad and grateful that they did the bare minimum.

It wasn't supposed to be about being grateful or not. I was just listing out a bunch of Olicity stuff they put into s7 as a counter to the idea of "no quality Olicity content." So more "hey, I don't think there was nothing, here are some things" and not "be grateful for these scenes and don't have any criticisms of them ever!!1!11" Some of their scenes were a bit too short, and there can always be more, but I'm comparing some specific moments when the expectations were nothing, so it's not delivering bare minimum but by definition delivering more than expected or delivering things that were completely unexpected. 

I think they went far above the bare minimum, but I do think that's my opinion. 

[Mary0360]

9 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

What I'm getting with this is how bad Arrow writers have been at providing important emotional beats for the characters that viewers have started expecting the worst -- and then we're supposed to be glad and grateful that they did the bare minimum.

I tend to agree. I've actually been generally satisfied with Olicity this season. Although a lot of that comes down to the fact that everything else has been a dumpster fire for me in comparison. But that being said I think it's up to people to make up their own minds on what they find satisfying or dissatisfying on the show and like wise what they enjoy or haven't enjoyed.

[tv echo]

Felicity is the heart of Arrow. Without her, I feel like I've lost heart (and enthusiasm) for the show itself. 😩

And I'm bitter and sad about however this came about. 💔

Edited April 1, 2019 by tv echo

[Chaser]

I’m bitter Arrow isn’t ending this season. I wish they had gone in knowing that it was the final season and they didn’t have to worry about launching any spin offs or fixing any characters. I feel this season would have been better. 

[shantown]

Okay, I forced myself through the first 7 episodes of S5 so that I could get to the crossover. I'm watching OTA edits on YouTube now until the next crossover. I just can't do the full thing, NTA is too annoying. 

On a less bitter (but maybe more bitter?) note: I like Future Team Arrow with Mia, William, and Connor. The actors seem pretty fun on social media, and it makes more sense for the kids of OTA to pick up where their parents left off. IF S8 was focused on Future Team Arrow with little snippets from OTA, I would watch that. 

[KillahBee007]

I’m happy for Emily and glad FS gets to leave but I’m really bitter that the eps/writers/show wants to show her love now. They had plenty of time to do right by FS for seasons but didn’t.  So, good for her.

I don’t hold the feelings against the cast especially SA because I can see how close they all were but the rest? Nah. They knew she was leaving and still offered dust. 

[tennisgurl]

I still cant believe that, until basically right now, every time we almost got a big Felicity story, it got pulled away from us. Dealing with Felicity being forced to bomb a city for the greater good? Gets a few good scenes with Rory, but its never mentioned again. She is supposed to get an arch enemy with Cayden James, but that never really happens and he got dumped for Derp the Dragon. Felicity is trying to deal with her complicated feelings about Oliver going to jail, and raising William, with and without Oliver? William gets shipped off to his asshole grandparents to not see them for years, and her friends ignore her attempts to catch the man who sent her husband to jail, and then when he comes back, she gets about three scenes to be emotional, then its onto the next thing.

God, no wonder Emily left.

[lemotomato]

I’m not saying the show handled Felicity’s storylines well, but I think it does Emily a disservice to project our unhappiness about the show on to her and insinuate that’s why she left. We don’t know why she didn’t agree to stay for 10 more episodes. We do know she loves Beth and was excited for her to become showrunner, that she went on a promotional round for the show this season (which she hasn’t done since season 4), and she spent all of yesterday posting her good memories of the show and the people she worked with. 

As for crappy storylines, that happens to every character on the show, not just Felicity. Diggle suddenly wanted to be GA, then he didn’t, then he did, then he didn’t. This season he was being a by-the-book ARGUS agent until he wasn’t, and went right back to being a vigilante. (Dante, the guy he was pursuing for months? Not his problem anymore!) Oliver doesn’t have a storyline in 7B. Dinah lost her meta-cry and resolved her feelings about that in one episode. Rene and Curtis have just been there being annoying since season 6. The writers suck at pacing and can’t handle writing for a big cast, which had started to become a problem since season 2B and has affected everyone to varying degrees over the seasons.

[tennisgurl]

1 hour ago, lemotomato said:

I’m not saying the show handled Felicity’s storylines well, but I think it does Emily a disservice to project our unhappiness about the show on to her and insinuate that’s why she left.

Its probably unfair, and it seems like Emily has enjoyed her time on the show very much and seems to be leaving on good terms with everyone, and thats great. I guess its just sad to me how much of her character ended up being squandered, even after she basically became the female lead. I have no idea why Emily decided not to do the last episodes, and I really dont think its because of her bad stories. If she wanted to leave over bad writing, she would have left ages ago, it just makes me sad. 

Of course, as you said, this is also the show that had the best Newbie leave early and kept around the terrible trio, giving them a crap ton of screen time, Black Siren became a DA randomly, and did...whatever the hell all that stuff was with Susan making Oliver keep William a secret from everyone. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

I guess this is the best place as any to put this. It's not so much bitterness, as confusion. Well, bitterness because I just don't understand why Show continues to write the HEROES as VILLAINS.

Don't understand why Mia grew up hating vigilantes. We saw from that future episode where she was trained by Nyssa from the time she was a tyke to her age now in 2040. Was it just so she would be able to take care of herself? Even after watching the "documentary" she's convinced they're the Devil Incarnate.

Did I miss something?

[JamieLynn832002]

I don't think Mia actually grew up hating vigilantes, she tells Felicity in Star City 2040 that after arriving in SC she started believing everything people said about Oliver and the rest because she hated/wanted to hate her mom. I do think the training with Nyssa was solely for protective purposes due to the danger of being The Green Arrow's child. The ungrateful, hero-hating garbage fire that is Star City sucks and I don't understand why I should be rooting for anyone to save these jackasses but I think Mia's hate was a more recent, teenage rebellion/my mom lied thing.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Maybe. The whiplash is just hurting my head and neck.

[Mellowyellow]

I think if it were A LOT of Felicity content to farewell my favourite character I would watch it. Instead from what I have seen of the youtube clips it's still the same old garbage with the usual standard few clips of Felicity.

I've sat through this garbage for years hoping for better (and occasionally getting it) content. Before EBR left I think there was always a nice hope. Now that she's left, its ep 19 and we are still dealing with random trash sisters and whatnot I'm kinda "meh" about it all.

I think everyone ends a journey differently and I usually end things somewhat bitterly (threw out an entire collection of Harry Potter! Will need to re-buy them for the kid when I decide to let him read them! Whoops! My greenie self really regrets that!).

I'm itching to hit delete on all the fanfics and I think when that day comes it will be my ultimate state of zen. Not there yet as I did love parts of this show (well Felicity and Olicity) and am mourning it in my own way but slowly moving there. 

[tv echo]

Every time I think about next season, I feel bitter all over again. Closing out the final season of Arrow without Felicity Smoak is like making Avengers: Endgame without one of the big three: Tony, Steve or Thor.

I really feel like TPTB (Greg Berlanti, The CW, WB) underestimated Felicity's continued importance to Arrow because she's not a masked superhero and thought that, as long as they got SA for the final season, that's all that mattered. So they didn't try too hard to lock up EBR for S8.

The last four episodes of Arrow have felt more like tests for potential spin-offs featuring supporting cast members (Future Kids, Emiko, E2 Laurel/BoP, Diggle) than Arrow episodes. However, none of them boosted ratings for the show.

Edited April 24, 2019 by tv echo

[kes0704]

Once Emily announced she was leaving a countdown started around the number of episodes left with Felicity. I think it triggered a lot of Felicity fans (myself included) to look at S7 as the final season and endpoint of the show.

I look at the final episodes now and wonder why they’re spending more time and focus on Captain Dinah and the SCPD when there’s only a handful of episodes left with Felicity. It’s totally the wrong way to view, I know they have to give all the characters something to do, but that’s where I am with the show. 

I agree that Greg Berlanti underestimated how important Felicity is to the show. But, I also think he might not have seen it as critical to lock Emily down for S8 because it’s probably more directed to serving the crossover (they want the masked characters onboard), and a potential future kids spin-off (I don’t think they hired Kat Macnamara to play a handful of episodes as the Olicity kid), than serving Arrow and the previous 7 years.  

[apinknightmare]

22 minutes ago, kes0704 said:

I agree that Greg Berlanti underestimated how important Felicity is to the show. But, I also think he might not have seen it as critical to lock Emily down for S8

I don't think this is the case. I think that TPTB had advance notice that Emily was leaving and likely knew that they wouldn't be able to lock her down as a regular. David was telling people back in May that Felicity was going to be pregnant in S7. There really wasn't a reason to give Oliver and Felicity a baby before the end of the series (if at all) unless it was for a plot point, and that plot point was to write Felicity off of the show.

[statsgirl]

6 hours ago, tv echo said:

The last four episodes of Arrow have felt more like tests for potential spin-offs featuring supporting cast members (Future Kids, Emiko, E2 Laurel/BoP, Diggle) than Arrow episodes. However, none of them boosted ratings for the show.

I will laugh and laugh, bitterly, if the ratings for next season are really low. Not that it makes any difference.

3 hours ago, kes0704 said:

I agree that Greg Berlanti underestimated how important Felicity is to the show. But, I also think he might not have seen it as critical to lock Emily down for S8 because it’s probably more directed to serving the crossover (they want the masked characters onboard), and a potential future kids spin-off (I don’t think they hired Kat Macnamara to play a handful of episodes as the Olicity kid), than serving Arrow and the previous 7 years.  

I expect next season to be not about Oliver and Arrow, but about setting up possible spin-offs and one-shot stories about characters like Diggle as the show limps towards it real purpose of s8, setting up COIE.  I've always hated the crossovers because they were all about servicing the other shows rather than the one I want to watch; it's particularly galling that the last season of Arrow is going to be reduced to 10 episodes of that.

[Primal Slayer]

I hate that when I think back on Arrow, my main memory will be so much squandered potential. 

[AES13]

I'm sorry that after the roller coaster of emotions I've been on with the show for the past 7 seasons (curiosity, glee, rage, frustration, delight, etc.) when I look back on this time it will be with apathy.  I agree with Primal Slayer that squandered potential is the real take away.