Target Practice: Poisoned Arrow (The Bitterness Thread)

[Genki]

When I saw the new lady Mayor in the promo for 3.11 I couldn't help but think to myself, how awesome would it have been it this was Moira as Mayor with Brick taking the city hostage. 

[Ariah]

When I saw the new lady Mayor in the promo for 3.11 I couldn't help but think to myself, how awesome would it have been it this was Moira as Mayor with Brick taking the city hostage. 

Brick wouldn't be holding the city hostage of Moira was the major.

She would have neutralized him before he could even think of taking the Glades.

 

 

A little bitter note on the side: I'm really angry we didn;t get any Thea/Oliver domestic scenes like cooking... Or a housewarming party. I know, the kitchen-sink-convos are considered boring... but they're not if done right!

[Sakura12]

I'm bitter that they said they killing of characters like Sara and Moira gave them more stories to tell. When so far in Season 3 it seems like they have less story now then they did in Season 2 when Moira and Sara were alive. 

 

From my POV there was a ton more story to tell with Moira and Sara being alive then there is with them dead. 

[Shanna]

I'm bitter that they said they killing of characters like Sara and Moira gave them more stories to tell. When so far in Season 3 it seems like they have less story now then they did in Season 2 when Moira and Sara were alive.

From my POV there was a ton more story to tell with Moira and Sara being alive then there is with them dead.

Completely agree. They are actually just doing the Lester dent school of writing which says that you continue to heap misery upon the hero. There is no reason for them to do that. An occasional death makes the stakes feel real, constant death makes the writers seem like hacks. So many Moira/Barrowman stories and Sara stories that could have been told!

And whatever the most interesting choice is, they seem to pick a different one. I hate what they've done with Thea. I wanted her to be using and playing her dad, not being used by him. I do hope we will get more of she and Ollie living together when he comes back.

[KirkB]

Oh I absolutely agree. Thea and Malcolm (along with Ra's) was one of the things I was looking forward to at first. But they screwed up the latter with casting and have somehow managed to screw up the former by brainwashing Thea and criminally underusing Malcolm. Potential Wasted should be Arrow's new subtitle.

Edited January 26, 2015 by KirkB

[chaos is welcome]

I just watched that latest midnight city clip, and I am bitter that we're here at all. What. A. Waste.

[Starfish35]

Hahahaha so much for being back to watching Arrow. After reading the episode thread for Midnight City it's going to take a good long while for me to calm down enough to watch that episode. My Smallville PTSD is too much to deal with all the "secrets and lies." Here's a novel idea, writers! Have your characters tell the truth for a change! It would be a shocking plot twist. :(

[Sakura12]

Tommy died because Laurel was an idiot, Sara died so Laurel could take her costume, Oliver "died" so Laurel could take his place and Felicity thinks it's okay to trick a friend of hers into thinking a loved one is still alive so Laurel can continue to wear Sara's costume. Is this show called Laurel or Arrow?

[writersblock51]

Tommy died because Laurel was an idiot, Sara died so Laurel could take her costume, Oliver "died" so Laurel could take his place and Felicity thinks it's okay to trick a friend of hers into thinking a loved one is still alive so Laurel can continue to wear Sara's costume. Is this show called Laurel or Arrow?

 

This.  I agree with all of this. Strongly.

 

This show seems to have forgotten that it owes the character of Laurel NOTHING.  And, unless there is specific language in Katie Cassidy's contract, it owes her NOTHING more than some screen time and a paycheck. 

 

I did not watch 3.11 and I'm likely going to see only specific clips of it online. It's not on my DVR. 

 

Reading the comments about the episode and some Twitter comments from the few fans that I follow who watched it (though most of them seemed to have watched in Full Snark Mode) have convinced me that the sum of Laurel's story do not make her better than her parts. 

 

I would have thought there'd be some Felicity/Diggle scenes but it doesn't seem to be. And I am digusted at her role in the ruse against Quentin. This is on the writers - who continue to think nothing of writing Felicity as someone who would stand up to Moira and risk losing Oliver but now bows to enabling Laurel to further, cruelly and recklessly, lie to Quentin.  Why wasn't Diggle or Roy the one to talk Felicity back to the team's mission?  Why Laurel?

 

Why is Laurel even in a position to best someone like Brick on a show that's still showing that Oliver is learning how to fight, be a leader, be a hero?  He's on Year 7, she's on month 4.  Just f&cking unbelievable.

 

And I just can't even deal with Ray.

 

I think the Maseo, Tatsu and Oliver scenes sound worth watching. And maybe some Thea stuff.  And one disturbing kiss - the one that will send a part of the fanbase into Tumblr ecstacy but still didn't come off with a clear message after all.

Edited January 29, 2015 by writersblock51

[KirkB]

As ridiculous as even I will admit it is, I still don't care about Laurel enough to get angry by her being the Canary. Go for it. Give her a super powered canary cry. Whatever. As long as Oliver is the star and Felicity and Diggle are still around it doesn't really matter to me. But one thing that does upset me, the one thing I can't forgive the EP's for, is what they did to Quentin this last episode. That was beyond disgusting. It's still not enough to make me quit the show but it's heading in that direction. At this point I am literally looking forward to NOTHING.

Edited January 29, 2015 by KirkB

[Chaser]

"This is the first time I felt disrespected as an audience member." - John Campea in regards to the reactions/actions of Diggle and Felicity to Laurel as Black Canary. So much truth in that statement.

Now I know why SA dodged the BC question. What an insult to his character and the show they have created. An insult to Diggle and Felicity as well because all their development has been tossed away. They were trappled on.

[statsgirl]

I would have thought there'd be some Felicity/Diggle scenes but it doesn't seem to be. And I am digusted at her role in the ruse against Quentin. This is on the writers - who continue to think nothing of writing Felicity as someone who would stand up to Moira and risk losing Oliver but now bows to enabling Laurel to further, cruelly and recklessly, lie to Quentin.  Why wasn't Diggle or Roy the one to talk Felicity back to the team's mission?  Why Laurel?

This is what I hate the most about these episodes, that they are ruining my favourite character to prop Laurel and Ray.

 

And it looks like it's not going to end in the foreseeable future

given AK's quote in Variety and that Ray is Felicity's +1 at the wedding.

 

I hate that Felicity, who was Valiant For Truth is now not only keeping Laurel's lie but helping her to make it more effective.  I hate that Felicity was the one to talk Laurel into putting the Canary suit back on.  I hate how hard they are pushing Raylicity when Felicity's tears are barely dry yet.  Whatever happened to doing the unexpected, which was a highlight of the show in the first 1 1/2 seasons?

 

I could have hung on for Buckle Canary and Ray's suit  (actually I was looking forward to Ray's suit) if they hadn't destroyed Felicity to get to it.  Right now, I'm hating any scene that has Felicity and Ray in it.

 

 At this point I am literally looking forward to NOTHING.

Same here, except more of having to hide my eyes or fast forward.

Edited January 29, 2015 by statsgirl

[kismet]

So I am very bitter that they appear to be pursuing a love triangle between R/F/O. It will not work. It will not make the show better. It will not make anybody want to watch the show. It will detract from some much of what used to make Arrow Awesome. If the Arrow writers care, I HIGHLY advise them to drop the love triangle thing really quick. For starters there is little romantic chemistry between R&F and his character is just not filled out enough to really be a romantic lead. Secondly, what chemistry/friendship/work partnership R&F will automatically be killed by any attempts at romance. So unless they plan on killing R or sending him away. You are killing major selling point to Raylicity. Lastly, F&O have both a beautiful foundation that has so much promise and chemistry in spades to boot. If they want to pursue a triangle, then at least do Laurel cuz at least its comic canon. But honestly, they should avoid that as well, if for the primary reason. They are HORRIBLE with their triangle love story writing. It is not unique, witty or intriguing. It is just one bad cliche after another... and poorly written. I get it, they didn't set out to make this amazing OTP, or at least not have it sizzle to fruition so soon, but you have it so don't squander it. Don't make me watch some ridiculous pairing, just because you're not creative enough to find ways to keep Olicity apart. I can think of many that are far more realistic and palatable than the worn-out triangle.

 

Multiple shows have proven that if a triangle is not well written it will sink your show. A great example of this is another CW show that I love (BEauty & the BEast). In s2, they got the great idea to give one of the leads amnesia thereby causing cliche friction number 1. In the absence of the tragic hero, the other party tried to piece her life back together. The theme of the season was people finding their identity, who they were esp in relation to each other, esp when that other person is not who they once were. Now on this journey, the female was supposed to set on her own quest towards identity, by becoming more devoted & fulfilled in her job etc. She was not just a girl looking for a guy. She was gonna be a new modern independent female. Of course, enter in s1 guest star, now s2 regular as the shoulder she could cry on, the friendly co-worker (with some boundary issues), who on paper looks like the perfect guy & match for our sassy heroine. They share similar professional interests, they have tragic stories that connect them. The writing was on the wall. I hoped and hoped that the writers would not fall into the cliche and easy trope of the love triangle, but they couldn't resist. Now I will say that similar to BR/ERB their was some chemistry between the Kristin Kreuk & Sendhil Ramathurry, but is was not romantic chemistry. It was just a really great friendship vibe. But midway through season, actually right around valentine's day the writers took the plunge with them romantically and the story was never the same. The ratings which were never great to begin with, plummeted. Nobody wants to watch two people who clearly deserve a shot at being together be stalled by some half=ass knock off. If people think the heat of Olicity is hot, the heat between Vincat when not being destroyed by dumb plots is smoking, somedays more than Olicity, if only cuz it lacks a little more of the restraint/innocence. KK & Jay Ryan just sizzle on the screen, so if your gonna make ur audience forget that chemistry you have to bring it. Sadly most triangle writers can;t bring it - we all can't be Shonda Rimes who seems to able to spin any triangle into believable &/or must-watch.

 

Im not even kidding, when I heard the Arrow EP describe this upcoming season & introduce RP/BR I just knew we were in for a rough ride. The writing was on the wall again... I didn't want it to come true, part of me still thinks I may be able to will it away, until this past episode with BR & crazy eyes stares and desire to protect people (aka Felicity) with no mention or regard to his dead Fiancee who was up until this episode someone you were not allowed to mention, but now she's forgotten just like so many other female plot devices on Arrow. Side-note - its insulting that in these stories the females could only find their way out of the fog and into enlightenment by pursuing a clearly misguided relationship that "should" work because we are so "compatible". BATB of course did some damage control, lots of back pedaling & weird character decisions that eventually worked Vincat back together, but those of us in the fandom seriously questioned how much quality storyline was eaten up by this ridiculous triangle soap opera that 1. did not advance any character development 2. sucked up unnecessary screen time & 3. made you hate characters that you had grown to love. An ill conceived triangle is not good for a show to attempt. I have seen first hand what it can do to a show and it is not pretty. BATB is not the only show to suffer from it, Chuck did (BR im still mad at u, now I get to be doubly mad). Many shows do. Some make it out ok like True Blood, but then again to fix that triangle they essentially did not have Sookie & Eric interact with each other for almost 1.5 seasons. Thats not really fixing as much as avoidance, but whatever works. Im bitter that Arrow would choose to take this often failed, rarely successful route that I do not think would appeal to their target audience. Are they really confident in their story telling that they can sustain another poorly written love triangle? Because Im sure of 2 things 1. it will suck 2. it will only lead to more character destruction. Im not sure if Olicity is endgame or not, because afterall it is a tv show and endgame only comes when you get a finale date. But I do know it is very popular and generates a lot of buzz. So why throw that away on a stupid love triangle to introduce some random new guy in town with a mask? It's not worth it. People will like Ray for Ray, or dislike him for whatever reasons. Romantically entangling him in one ur most buzzworthy characters is not a good way to insure his likeability, esp if you want him to stick around. Then again, people seem to drop like flies in SC, so maybe they do have a masterplan. I would just like then to be more creative in their ways to keep Olicity apart. There are so many ways that our natural to their story & characters that could keep O/F apart for a long time and still bring the angst. Arrow is a superhero action/adventure show with some dramatic elements. It is not a sudsy melodrama w/ YA tendencies. It should stick to what it does best and write kick-ass action, some twisted drama, familial drama all the better with some light, self-aware humor. Romance does not have to be off the table, but it certainly does not have to be front and center and paraded around for angst/dramatic effect. Can Ray become ATOM without Felicity, NO - but does that mean I have to endure the possibility of them making puppy eyes at each other, while Oliver jealously steams in the background. You want Felicity to complete her journey of self-discovery, have her actually do that. She doesn't need a romantic interest to prove that she has completed her journey. Oliver needs to know if he can be OQ & the Arrow - actually have him try balancing them for once beyond just 1 date, that was writer sabotaged. That being said, I think the show would be stronger moving forward if they just let Olicity have a chance together without all the trope drama. If it fizzles, then moving fwd in future seasons figure something else out. But to knowingly use dumb tropes to stall them, seems a little below my expectations for them. Do I think the Olicity contingent of the fandom would walk away if they officially go together, NO. Do I think dangling them and then replacing them with a poor-knock off is a good idea, NO. At the end of the day, if all you're banking on is will they or won't they, you don't really have a good couple or story there. People get interested in it, but they stick around when the product is good. I think people would stick around for O&F together, because it makes them & the story stronger. There is inherent drama in making a serious relationship work, you don't need to introduce all these external blocks that will most likely be poorly executed. Keep the triangles for other shows that need them to survive, but not in Arrow, where they only seem toxic to the show.

[Genki]

I think the reason why some of the Fandom is anti-shipping is because writers tend to go for the most hackneyed, contrived and obvious, trying to avoid  supposed "Moonlighting curse" and it puts people off. Unfortunately the Arrow EPs are living down to expectations. As a fan of Olicity and avid TV watcher I know what they are doing I can maybe live with it if they give us the usual quid pro quo.

 

But no Slade/Felicty?
No Oliver/Felicity wedding dance????
WTF?!?!
Surely we deserve an Olicity slow dance if Felicity brings Ray as her +1.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Genki

[Pothunter]

Even in his dreams Oliver kisses Felicity as if she were a Vestal virgin placed on a pedestal! If this relationship moves ahead positively, I'm sure it will give new meaning to the word vanilla.

 

Everyone involved needs to watch John and Aeryn in Farscape.

[Genki]

I watched and thought the kiss was a teeny bit weird, but I think it might have been the blood in SA's mouth that he had to spit up immediately after it!

 

John and Aeryn were great they did so much right. The show runners knew how to write them and give them peril, but keep them as the OTP. And while the writers kept them apart it wasn't over a stupid love triangle. Well there was one but it was a love triangle between Aeryn and John-Clones!!

 

Also the cartoon episode where John wakes up and emphatically states that he is all about Aeryn. I just like the certainty even though they were separated at that time.

 

And a moment that sticks in my head was in a pretty meh episode, it was after Aeryn puts the brakes on them being together he hold his hand against the baddie's gun and says something like "go ahead ruin my love-life!" Cracks me up!

 

On Topic: How many more ways can they may Ray Oliver-lite? Felicity patching up him up instead of paramedics? Boo!!!!

Edited January 29, 2015 by Genki

[Pothunter]

I watched and thought the kiss was a teeny bit weird, but I think it might have been the blood in SA's mouth that he had to spit up immediately after it!

 

John and Aeryn were great they did so much right. The show runners knew how to write them and give them peril, but keep them as the OTP. And while the writers kept them apart it wasn't over a stupid love triangle. Well there was one but it was a love triangle between Aeryn and John-Clones!!

 

Also the cartoon episode where John wakes up and emphatically states that he is all about Aeryn. I just like the certainty even though they were separated at that time.

 

And a moment that sticks in my head was in a pretty meh episode, it was after Aeryn puts the brakes on them being together he hold his hand against the baddie's gun and says something like "go ahead ruin my love-life!" Cracks me up!

 

On Topic: How many more ways can they may Ray Oliver-lite? Felicity patching up him up instead of paramedics? Boo!!!!

 

John and Aeryn were the best! That line was in the second episode of the 'Look at the Princess' trilogy. Those 3 episodes were okay but they had some wonderfully awesome moments. The opening and closing scenes and the kiss/spit thing with Aeryn and Rygel.

 

The writers and producers will never allow Arrow and the pairing to be that good.

[Password]

@kismet it's funny you mention the Cat-Gabe-Vincent triangle. I actually liked Gabe, but I thought his good guy act was just that: an act. He was completely evil in season 1 so I found it strange that he was this good, upstanding bloke in season 2, when he was evil down to his core in season 1. I didn't think it at all strange when he lost his chops, but I agree that entire triangle crap was so stupid. I actually liked the doctor in season 1 as a suitable guy for Cat far better than Gabe.

I don't need anymore reasons to dislike Ray, honestly. But Felicity's tears haven't even dried on her cheeks since last week when she said she lost someone more than a friend, and Ray is already moving in? That is so unhealthy on ten different levels and just further makes me think Ray sees emotional vulnerability and moves in on it immediately if it benefits him. This is Felicity's OPTION? I am so glad I've decided to nix the next few episodes because I just know they're going to crap on Felicity's character for the furtherment of not only Ray, but apparently Laurel. Unacceptable. The writers did pretty much the same thing with Oliver in season 2, reverting him to Ollie with "The Lunge", being hypocritical, making terrible leadership decisions. The writers have no qualms about making the characters dance like monkeys for their plot bunnies.

Am I to understand Felicity making a lying device as evidence of her grief from losing Oliver? I'm so glad they decided Felicity's "I'm done" thing was so short lived. Obviously the storyline is taking them wonderful places.

Gosh it feels so good to vent without the frustration and pain of watching the episode.

[Shanna]

I don't need anymore reasons to dislike Ray, honestly. But Felicity's tears haven't even dried on her cheeks since last week when she said she lost someone more than a friend, and Ray is already moving in? That is so unhealthy on ten different levels and just further makes me think Ray sees emotional vulnerability and moves in on it immediately if it benefits him. This is Felicity's OPTION? I am so glad I've decided to nix the next few episodes because I just know they're going to crap on Felicity's character for the furtherment of not only Ray, but apparently Laurel. Unacceptable. The writers did pretty much the same thing with Oliver in season 2, reverting him to Ollie with "The Lunge", being hypocritical, making terrible leadership decisions. The writers have no qualms about making the characters dance like monkeys for their plot bunnies.

Am I to understand Felicity making a lying device as evidence of her grief from losing Oliver? I'm so glad they decided Felicity's "I'm done" thing was so short lived. Obviously the storyline is taking them wonderful places.

Gosh it feels so good to vent without the frustration and pain of watching the episode.

I agree with all of this limbo. I may go back at some point and watch the stuff with Oliver and Mateo, but I don't want Felicitys character sacrificed to prop up ray and laurel. If they can't stand on their own, they won't work. Period. And god this Quentin thing pisses me off so much and I can't stand to hear that they trashed felicity by making her help. This show is pissing me off and I'm not watching till Oliver is back.

And I'm not watching a spinoff with Brandon routh either. I know he's a good looking, tall fellow and he seemed like he would make a good guy but his crazy eyes kill that so you need to just make him evil like chuck did. Which btw I am getting such major "I hate shaw" flashbacks this season.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Shanna

[jay741982]

I agree with all of this limbo. I may go back at some point and watch the stuff with Oliver and Mateo, but I don't want Felicitys character sacrificed to prop up ray and laurel. If they can't stand on their own, they won't work. Period. And god this Quentin thing pisses me off so much and I can't stand to hear that they trashed felicity by making her help. This show is pissing me off and I'm not watching till Oliver is back.

And I'm not watching a spinoff with Brandon routh either. I know he's a good looking, tall fellow and he seemed like he would make a good guy but his crazy eyes kill that so you need to just make him evil like chuck did. Which btw I am getting such major "I hate shaw" flashbacks this season.

I've been saying all along that Raylicity reminds me of Shaw and Sarah from Chuck. Both ships are gross. I remember how depressing Chuck was that season until Chuck and Sarah got together

[dtissagirl]

I'm bitter I don't want to watch this episode. Not even for mocking reasons, which I usually live for, more than for good storytelling. But ragey feelings of rage and mockity mock mock don't go together well, so I guess skipping it is.

 

Catching the Maseo and Tatsu hour on YouTube, though. LOOK WHAT YOU'VE DONE TO ME, ARROW.

[quarks]

Even in his dreams Oliver kisses Felicity as if she were a Vestal virgin placed on a pedestal! If this relationship moves ahead positively, I'm sure it will give new meaning to the word vanilla.

 

 

You're not entirely wrong, but to be fair, they were kinda interrupted by all the coughing up copious amounts of blood before they could get to something less vanilla, and all that blood already did give a new definition to the word vanilla.

[doesntworkonwood]

You're not entirely wrong, but to be fair, they were kinda interrupted by all the coughing up copious amounts of blood before they could get to something less vanilla, and all that blood already did give a new definition to the word vanilla.

 

Yeah, I think that kiss came off a bit weird because SA had to keep the fake blood in his mouth

[apinknightmare]

You're not entirely wrong, but to be fair, they were kinda interrupted by all the coughing up copious amounts of blood before they could get to something less vanilla, and all that blood already did give a new definition to the word vanilla.

 

Plus the fact that they shot the kiss while Stephen had blood in his mouth probably prevented their tongues from battling for dominance (<----FANFIC, YEAH!!!)

[Starfish35]

From spoilers thread:

I think we gotta start a list of outrageous plots we dismissed because they sounded too ridiculous, and it turned out they weren't. The Bitterness Thread can rank them from worst to WORST.

Other people can rank them, but I'll get the list started.

1) That the episode title "Sara" was a portent of Sara's imminent demise.

2) That Thea would be found to have been the one to have killed Sara.

3) That Malcolm would have hypnotized, brainwashed, or drugged Thea into killing Sara.

4) That Laurel would dress up as Sara to deceive her father into thinking that Sara is still alive.

[dtissagirl]

Smaller one, but: we all dismissed it that they'd ever imply the DNA in the arrow that killed Sara was ~mistakenly identified as Oliver's because it was Thea's, and they are siblings.

 

But then Diggle went and said "you're siblings, it could be a partial match" or some other tomfoolery, and Felicity accepted it as extra proof besides the virtual autopsy findings, and poor dumbed down for plot Diggle and Felicity.

[chaos is welcome]

I still can't believe we had felicity encouraging laurel to be a vigilante, and helping her deceive lance.

[tv echo]

Well, since the ratings are good for "Left Behind" and "Midnight City", I guess the EPs - and esp. MG - will take that as a sign that they're right and any complaining fans are wrong.

Edited January 29, 2015 by tv echo

[strikera0]

Even in his dreams Oliver kisses Felicity as if she were a Vestal virgin placed on a pedestal! If this relationship moves ahead positively, I'm sure it will give new meaning to the word vanilla.

 

 

You're not entirely wrong, but to be fair, they were kinda interrupted by all the coughing up copious amounts of blood before they could get to something less vanilla, and all that blood already did give a new definition to the word vanilla.

 

 

The other Felicity/Oliver kisses haven't looked much different though and I have yet to see SA create heat with any of the women on the show. Stephen reminds me more and more of Tom Cruise. He's great at the action scenes and fairly decent at drama, but he wouldn't be able to convey romantic passion if his life depended on it.

Edited January 29, 2015 by strikera0

[SonofaBiscuit]

Well, since the ratings are good for "Left Behind" and "Midnight City", I guess the EPs - and esp. MG - will take that as a sign that they're right and any complaining fans are wrong.

 

Yes, and I'm very annoyed about this because I think that failing ratings were the only chance of getting rid of KC.  Some fans seem pissed about last night's episodes, but the reviews that I saw were generally good (although, many of the sites that review episodes will give even the bad episodes like a B grade or and 8.0+ on a scale of 1-10.  WTH??).  I enjoy reading this site, but I think that I'm going to need to slowly disengage to preserve my sanity.

[pivot]

I just took Arrow off my DVR. I am done after last night. They've decided to center the show around an actress who can't emote to save her life and is completely unbelievable as a superhero due to her incredibly thin body. That mixed with the fact that I've hated every single storyline involving Laurel since the premiere, not liking Quentin Lance due to the actor's weird mumbling, and there just isn't any point. Before at least, Felicity and Diggle were free from being infected by the stupidity of the Lance storylines. Now, they are being used to prop up the Laurel because the EPs are obsessed with KC/Laurel. At this point, they've completely destroyed Arrow and there is no fixing it.

Well, since the ratings are good for "Left Behind" and "Midnight City", I guess the EPs - and esp. MG - will take that as a sign that they're right and any complaining fans are wrong.

I think it is too soon to have the ratings impacted by the shift in the show. Most viewers don't follow spoilers and have no idea that the next 4+ episodes are going to be focused on Laurel. We'll see where we are at the end of the season after viewers have to endure an entire 1/2 season of KC and her blank stare.

I think it is pretty telling that the writers had to be on twitter retweeting and working hard to get any Laurel/BC hashtag to trend outside of Felicity and Laurel. That along with John Campea quitting the show should be worrying the EPs. However, they ignored all the hatred for Laurel and KC's unpopularity for the past 2 years, so I expect they'll keep doing the same thing until the show ends.

Personally, I can't wait to see how SA feels about the show next season when his role is reduced so BC can shine.

[moviewhore]

So Felicity's reduced to being Laurel's cheerleader and, what the fuck, actually encouraging her to fight when before she was all "I can't help you kill yourself" with Ray.  What bullshit is that? 

 

And seeing Papa Lance being lied to by everyone about his daughter being dead and seeing Laurel pretend to be her is just unworthy of my time.  My blood pressure was skyrocketing with that.  And seeing Lotz as a guest star when it was just her voice being used?  Jesus Christ, what an insult to her. 

 

This is turning into the "Laurel Lance Chronicles" with the main character, the show's namesake, is off the field so KC can shine and be Canary 2.0.  Fuck that shit.

 

SA has to be angry about this.  KC is taking over now and that has to hurt. 

[KirkB]

Stephen is probably in "shut up, you're still the star" mode. Even if the show is renamed Arrow and Canary he's still going to be out front. If anything it's David, Emily, Willa and Colton who should be worried and/or annoyed.

Edited January 29, 2015 by KirkB

[AnalyzeAndCritique]

After every episode I show up here and hope for something which will tell me it is ok to look forward to an episode of Arrow again. After episode I realize today wasn't the day.

I'm apathetic to the show now. It saddens me the potential for this show is continually not meant. You have a lead in Amell who is balancing pre-island, island, and post-island Oliver really well. I questioned his casting, but he's proved me wrong. David Ramsey and EBR are gold mines they stumbled upon and elevated the show. Team Arrow is the heart of the show and could carry five or six seasons easily.

 

The fringe players for the most part hold their own. Haynes and Cassidy are the weakest links, but if the characters are written to their acting strengths it isn't blatantly obvious they are in over their heads. They are left in the dust by the guest stars of Barrowman, Thompson, and Blackthorne. 

 

My bitterness is directed to TIIC. The fact they didn't realize they would get blowback on Laurel keeping Sara's death a secret for months shows a complete lack of intelligence. You don't build a hero on lies, deceit, selfishness, and bitchiness. Sara was a hero forged in adversity. Laurel chose to become a hero because the sister she couldn't give two shits about was killed. Then you take a poorly crafted motivation for characterization and throw on top the manipulation and deceit. 

 

I call BS. Can S3 end with Oliver waking up from a coma caused by the explosion in E1? 

[looptab]

I really hoped we would have some Diggle/Felicity moment after the way she throw the towel last week. Why don't you let them talk, show???

[thuganomics85]

That would require Felicity to interact with someone other then Ray for over a minute, and require Diggle to be more then just background dude.

 

Seriously, the treatment with Diggle in particular is so frustrating.  Every now and then, they'll give him an episode where he is featured a lot (last week and episode 3), but it feels like his screen time has been reduced big time this season.  I'm pretty sure Brandon Roth has probably gotten more to do then David Ramsey, and David is third in the cast list.

 

It's no secret that I have a lot of issues with this show this season.  But, even then, I root for it on some levels.  But this Quentin stuff might truly break me.  It just a horrible way to treat a character and it's not only killing any chance at making me warm up to Laurel, it's messing up other characters, by having Diggle and Roy complacent, and now Felicity is actively participating in the cover-up.  And, judging from the tweets, they had no idea this reaction was going to happen.  I just don't understand any of it.

[wonderwall]

I think that after the last episode I'm thinking of giving the show a couple more episodes before I stop watching it weekly. I'll probably save it for my binge watch after the season is over so I can fast forward through the bad parts... Which right now seems to be like 80% of the episodes. Arrow has just been such a source of disdain for me which is so unfortunate because it's a show I would look forward to every single week and every hiatus would be hell... Now I just can't seem to muster up the energy for this show. Idk. I'm so disappointed

[Angel12d]

I think that after the last episode I'm thinking of giving the show a couple more episodes before I stop watching it weekly. I'll probably save it for my binge watch after the season is over so I can fast forward through the bad parts... Which right now seems to be like 80% of the episodes. Arrow has just been such a source of disdain for me which is so unfortunate because it's a show I would look forward to every single week and every hiatus would be hell... Now I just can't seem to muster up the energy for this show. Idk. I'm so disappointed

 

Same. I realized last night that I'm never going to be ok with what's happening, especially not when the show is happy to screw over characters I love just to make one fit because comics! I even started questioning and doubting Felicity because I'm not seeing the Felicity I grew to love over two seasons and her lack of voice about her feelings for Oliver is infuriating me. I'm not getting the subtlety I need from EBR to make this crappy journey worthwhile anymore. And tbh, I'm sick of this show constantly kicking Oliver when he's down. If any character deserved a break and some happiness, it's him. He's just not getting it and I can't watch this depressing mess any longer. Already decided to marathon it in a couple of months. 

[calliope1975]

I'm pretty close to being out as well. Much closer than I was 2 episodes ago. The friends I convinced to watch have all quit. Sad, it had the potential to be really good this year. Maybe the finale will be better. (See, there's still a smidge of hope left in me for some stupid reason. I blame Amell and EBR.)

[Danny Franks]

Join me in being Out. It feels so good to not have to worry about what utter garbage is going to be served up to you, each week. Instead, you just get sympathy pangs for those poor people still watching, and spikes of vitriol at the stupid writers who so thoroughly ruined a show that was actually pretty okay once.

 

I predicted, back when the first pics of Laurel as Bland Canary were released, that she'd don the outfit to fool her dad into thinking Sara was alive. I did that partially in jest, because I didn't think the writers would come up with something that unforgivably shitty, selfish and heartless from their supposed female lead (even though I've seen Laurel before, and know she is all three of those things in spades). But they actually did it, and they actually had people who have exhibited brains on the show help her? Good grief. This shit is bordering on gleeful necrophilia. It's disgusting.

[calliope1975]

I am skipping episodes now which I wouldn't have fathomed of doing last year. I'm sure soon my anger will turn to disinterest then to apathy and then I will join the Dark Side. 

[moviewhore]

This bullshit is similar to what's happening on Sleepy Hollow, another show gone to shit in order to prop an actress.  It's like deja vu

 

Laurel conning her father into thinking Sara was alive in front of him was hateful and morally bankrupt.  I think it was the most disgusting thing I've seen in years.

 

Another thing pissing me the fuck off is Merlyn continuing to mindfuck his daughter after brainwashing her into killing Sara.  That was horrible and another example of a person's agency being taken away.  She and Quentin have been shit on by family members to an unbelievable degree.

 

There is a undercurrent of nastiness, of decay on the show now.  It's gotten to the point when the characters aren't recognizable to me.  Felicity joining in on the "lie to Papa Lance" train is a good example of character assassination to further the Laurel bullshit. 

 

I have one more ep in me.  If it's like this I'm done for good.  Life's too fucking short. 

[tessaray]

 

This show seems to have forgotten that it owes the character of Laurel NOTHING.  And, unless there is specific language in Katie Cassidy's contract, it owes her NOTHING more than some screen time and a paycheck.

 

When I look at the writing for Laurel as BC, I almost think that KC threatened (someone who cared - MG?) to quit if she didn't get to be BC this year.  Because nothing else makes sense.  They had to almost completely dismantle the whole freaking show to make it happen - who does that when they had so many great things going already? 

 

I think my eyeballs are in danger of being permanently lodged in the back of my head when I watch Arrow these days but I suppose I'll keep watching until Oliver gets back.  If I can stand it.  If I can't even depend on some Diggle and Felicity moments, not sure what's left.     

[Shanna]

That would require Felicity to interact with someone other then Ray for over a minute, and require Diggle to be more then just background dude.

Seriously, the treatment with Diggle in particular is so frustrating. Every now and then, they'll give him an episode where he is featured a lot (last week and episode 3), but it feels like his screen time has been reduced big time this season. I'm pretty sure Brandon Roth has probably gotten more to do then David Ramsey, and David is third in the cast list.

It's no secret that I have a lot of issues with this show this season. But, even then, I root for it on some levels. But this Quentin stuff might truly break me. It just a horrible way to treat a character and it's not only killing any chance at making me warm up to Laurel, it's messing up other characters, by having Diggle and Roy complacent, and now Felicity is actively participating in the cover-up. And, judging from the tweets, they had no idea this reaction was going to happen. I just don't understand any of it.

I agree with all of this. They already have fantastic characters like Diggle and felicity - develop them. Give them stories! It is so frustrating to see them marginalized (in Ramsey's case) or used to lend their awesomeness (in Felicitys case) [or murdered - see Sara, shado, Moira, tommy etc] for their attempt at another spin off or super hero or to prop up characters that aren't doing so well.

And the Quentin thing...if they don't know people were already pissed they have been closing their ears to anything perceived as anti laurel or they are lying. Because people have been talking about it all season and it breaks my heart that they are dragging my favorite characters into the coverup. Tell the man his damn daughter is dead assholes!!!!

As for giving up the show, I've already stopped watching live. I didn't watch this episode and I might not. Maybe I'll catch the Mateo/Oliver parts on you tube. Maybe I'll come back when Oliver does. I am still on the fence, but I've given up on shows before, even when they have characters I still love. Like agents of shield. I haven't seen the last two sleepy hollow episodes either but I haven't entirely given up hope yet.

Edited January 29, 2015 by Shanna

[statsgirl]

I only really get into one show at a time to give me the fantasy when my real life gets bad, so it's worse if it blows up on me. This is a bad one.

 

Same. I realized last night that I'm never going to be ok with what's happening, especially not when the show is happy to screw over characters I love just to make one fit because comics! I even started questioning and doubting Felicity because I'm not seeing the Felicity I grew to love over two seasons and her lack of voice about her feelings for Oliver is infuriating me. I'm not getting the subtlety I need from EBR to make this crappy journey worthwhile anymore.

To defend EBR, I'm not sure how she can show that she's projecting Oliver on to Ray and that's why she's doing those things (if that is the case) when the EPS are out promoting the greatness of Raylicity and her are all about caring for and propping Ray.

 

I could have managed InstaCanary if they had kept the real Felicity Smoak. I don't know who this pod person is.

[Angel12d]

To defend EBR, I'm not sure how she can show that she's projecting Oliver on to Ray and that's why she's doing those things (if that is the case) when the EPS are out promoting the greatness of Raylicity and her are all about caring for and propping Ray.

 

I could have managed InstaCanary if they had kept the real Felicity Smoak. I don't know who this pod person is.

 

I agree, to an extent. And I don't know if they are going for a 'projecting feelings' type thing with Raylicity. It looks like it to me but then the writers say Felicity has a valid choice to make and I just don't know what they're doing. There is no choice, at least I didn't think there was but what do I know?

 

I guess I just want something more from her about her feelings for Oliver. During s2, even though he probably hadn't realized it, I felt that Oliver had feelings for Felicity just by the way SA played him. There's the way he looks at her, the soft change in his voice, the shoulder touching. There was all these little clues that really helped shape the idea that he was falling in love - that he acted differently around her. So even though we didn't get an outlet for those feelings in the script, I saw it in the nuanced things he did. I'm just not getting the same thing from EBR at the moment. Don't get me wrong I love her, and she's obviously just playing the script she's given but I feel like there should be something more. The only time I've seen Felicity's real longing for Oliver was during the talk she had with Barry on the train in The Flash episode. I thought she played the subtlety really well there. On Arrow she just feels really distant and even though I understand why (Oliver pushed her away, she's protecting herself, I get it) I just want to see a break in that every now and then. Just a glimpse that she's not over it as much as she appears. Her making heart eyes at Ray a week after Oliver died is really not helping.

[Password]

...Can I introduce you to "she's doing this for plot"? It's really giving me a shoulder to lean on.

[Angel12d]

...Can I introduce you to "she's doing this for plot"? It's really giving me a shoulder to lean on.

 

That's basically what I'm going with right now. I don't blame EBR. I'll say that in caps if it stops people jumping on me. But I do blame the direction/writers/EP's.

[AyChihuahua]

Characters are only the sum of their writing and acting (I put directing in with acting).  So if the character of Felicity Smoak is being written and acted as if she's totally cool with being flirted with one week after Oliver died, then she is.  So I'd say, even in a show that moves as quickly as Arrow does, that means she ain't all that broken up that Oliver died.  Imagine your friend's husband died unexpectedly, violent, and heroically, and ONE WEEK later she's not shutting down her boss flirting with her.  You'd not think much of that marriage.  So basically, Felicity is pretty much ruined, and I am so thrilled that I quit watching after The Climb, because at least Seasons 1 and 2 aren't retroactively ruined for me.  (I'll never ever watch a rerun of HIMYM because the ending ruined everything that came before.)

[Sakura12]

I went with she's doing it for the plot with Sara when she took Oliver to the family dinner. Everyone was all ragey about that while I didn't care.

Then the EP's confirmed that it was just to give Laurel her big scene.