The Duggars and Their World: Fashion, Food, Finance, Schoolin’ and Child Rearin'

[Churchhoney]

19 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

That manual was just sad to read. 

And for some reason, to me, just about as heartbreaking for the terribly messed up woman who wrote it as for the four young boys who had to live by it. I just picture her as absolutely rigid with fear of everything, To crave control to that extent. A real sickness. 

[RazzleberryPie]

18 hours ago, floridamom said:

I remember reading that "Alice" post myself. It's true that TLC and Discovery Network wrote that check to Jim Bob and Michelle to finish their house. What did they do with that money? Did they pay those 'friend-helper-contractors, furniture companies and interior designers' for their services with that check or did they get to keep it and TLC paid the tradesmen when they appeared on the show. Still, this family bends the truth about almost everything. So, they didn't build the TTH themselves after all....I also remember that post saying how when the professionals were brought in, most of the 'work' the children did on that house had to be ripped out due to shoddiness and/or not up to code. It goes to show you, children should NOT be doing construction work.

I still ask the same question and don't seem to get a real answer....either this family was destitute in those 'sardine can house days' and accepted donations of food; or they were doing just fine financially like the leghumpers insist. Can't be both ways, can it?

I think it can be both ways. JBis a dishonest trickster who would absolutely accept donations from suckas while hoarding his own money.

[Arwen Evenstar]

2 hours ago, RazzleberryPie said:

I think it can be both ways. JBis a dishonest trickster who would absolutely accept donations from suckas while hoarding his own money.

Totally! Maybe that's how he got so good at grifting.

[Mollie]

6 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Totally! Maybe that's how he got so good at grifting.

More from Alice: "Everything inside the house was given to them except the kitchen. They did buy that themselves. The rest is all free. Mary [Grandma Mary] and Josh was on the phone day and night asking for donations from soup to Computers. They also received a Baby Grand Piano from Campbell Soup Co. The trip to California was also provided by the TV Stations. It was mapped out. Mile for Mile. They did not spend a penny of their money. All the groceries and gas and lodging and clothing was paid for in advance. For someone who wants to be famous, why lie about the facts. Seems funny to me. They are professional liers, both of them.. They twist their words to make them look good and and look like devoted parents and a great big happy family. Nothing could be further from the truth."

[Churchhoney]

4 minutes ago, Mollie said:

More from Alice: "Everything inside the house was given to them except the kitchen. They did buy that themselves. The rest is all free. Mary [Grandma Mary] and Josh was on the phone day and night asking for donations from soup to Computers. They also received a Baby Grand Piano from Campbell Soup Co. The trip to California was also provided by the TV Stations. It was mapped out. Mile for Mile. They did not spend a penny of their money. All the groceries and gas and lodging and clothing was paid for in advance. For someone who wants to be famous, why lie about the facts. Seems funny to me. They are professional liers, both of them.. They twist their words to make them look good and and look like devoted parents and a great big happy family. Nothing could be further from the truth."

Ironic that they bought the kitchen. It's probably the least used item in the house. 

[GeeGolly]

I just finished reading The Glass Castle and even the 16 Duggars jammed packed into that little tiny house was better than any place the Walls family lived. No cult involved, but very out there parents and many poor decisions kept this family living below poverty. The dad was an alcoholic and the mom may have untreated bipolar disorder and both were extremely selfish. The two things both parents stressed the importance of, in contrast to the Duggar parents, was education and imagination. 

It just reminds me to be thankful for the parents I had and that there are a lot of messed up parents out there, including the Duggars.

Edited June 18, 2017 by GeeGolly

[Mollie]

1 minute ago, Churchhoney said:

Ironic that they bought the kitchen. It's probably the least used item in the house. 

She's talking about the used commercial kitchen that they bought from a closed Kmart store, not the kitchen that you see from the living room.  They wanted that commercial kitchen because when they planned the house in pre-TLC days, they were going to have homechurch meals every Sunday and also provide food for the financial seminars Jim Bob was leading in his home and in rented facilities.  They even planned a professional sound system for those events in the Tontitown home.

[Churchhoney]

10 minutes ago, Mollie said:

She's talking about the used commercial kitchen that they bought from a closed Kmart store, not the kitchen that you see from the living room.  They wanted that commercial kitchen because when they planned the house in pre-TLC days, they were going to have homechurch meals every Sunday and also provide food for the financial seminars Jim Bob was leading in his home and in rented facilities.  They even planned a professional sound system for those events in the Tontitown home.

Sorry, I don't watch the show, so I don't know a kitchen from a kitchen or what you can see from where.

So they have one kitchen that came with the house and some other kitchen that they bought? I had a dim idea that they have a smaller kitchen and a big commercial one with commercial dishwashers and such. Is that right, and is the big commercial one the one they bought? I knew about the plans to have the house be the center of some kind of Duggar enterprise but I don't know what hapepned when those plans went south. Did they get rid of the big kitchen when plans changed?  Or change it somehow? Or is it still there? Which kitchen was in the photo somebody posted a while ago with Hannie, Jackson and somebody else at the sinks? I've had the impression that they photograph that kitchen from time to time -- like a picture of the twins supposedly washing dishes that I remember .... For some reason I thought both those photos were the big kitchen (I guess because it had three or four sinks....)? Were they, or not? And then I remember a photo of Jana baking that I believe was in the small kitchen -- which looks more like it belongs in a regular house? .... 

...I still think my point holds, though. They're not really big on using kitchens, as far as I can tell. lol

Edited June 18, 2017 by Churchhoney

[GeeGolly]

Many real celebrities, athletes, politicians, get all kinds of perks when doing talk shows, press events and during filming. They have all kinds of money. The Duggars got a bunch of freebies and didn't name every item, it isn't that big of a deal, IMHO.

 

They bought a used industrial kitchen @Churchhoney.

[Marigold]

6 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Sorry, I don't watch the show, so I don't know a kitchen from a kitchen or what you can see from where.

So they have one kitchen that came with the house and some other kitchen that they bought? I had a dim idea that they have a smaller kitchen and a big commercial one with commercial dishwashers and such. Is that right, and is the big commercial one the one they bought? or did they get rid of one of that one when plans changed?  Which kitchen was in the photo somebody posted a while ago with Hannie, Jackson and somebody else at the sinks? For some reason I thought that was the big kitchen (I guess because it had three or four sinks....)? Was it, or not? 

The have a regular family kitchen with the oak cabinets, sink, the island that Josie is often sitting on etc.  It is adjoining the living room with the couches etc.

There is a door or something because behind that "pretty kitchen" (as Michelle calls it) is an industrial kitchen with hard core restaurant style dishwashers, a large restaurant style silver sink etc. 

The sometimes post pictures of the kids in either kitchen. 

https://goo.gl/images/JUv2ZP

 

https://goo.gl/images/HJWQtF

Edited June 18, 2017 by Marigold

[Churchhoney]

5 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Many real celebrities, athletes, politicians, get all kinds of perks when doing talk shows, press events and during filming. They have all kinds of money. The Duggars got a bunch of freebies and didn't name every item, it isn't that big of a deal, IMHO.

 

They bought a used industrial kitchen @Churchhoney.

So do they still have that kitchen? Is that the one they show sometimes with a bunch of sinks and a sort of cafeteria-line arrangement down the middle? I thought it was because it looks different from those other photos where you see Jana baking or something in the kitchen that looks more like a regular kitchen in the house. .... Did they get rid of the commercial kitchen or is it still there? 

Edited June 18, 2017 by Churchhoney

[BitterApple]

Yeah, usually you'll see photo ops in the industrial kitchen when the Duggars need an F.U. Interwebz moment. They'll pose a couple of boys in front of the stove with a kitchen tool to make it look like they do something besides sit on their asses all day. Other than that, I don't think it ever gets used.

[Marigold]

1 minute ago, Churchhoney said:

So do they still have that kitchen? Is that the one they show sometimes with a bunch of sinks and a sort of cafeteria-line arrangement down the middle? I thought it was because it looks different from those other photos where you see Jana baking or something in the kitchen that looks more like a regular kitchen in the house. .... Did they get rid of the commercial kitchen or is it still there? 

I just added pictures for you.

I believe the industrial kitchen is still there...no reason to think it's gone, that I know of. 

[Churchhoney]

5 minutes ago, Marigold said:

The have a regular family kitchen with the oak cabinets, sink, the island that Josie is often sitting on etc.  It is adjoining the living room with the couches etc.

There is a door or something because behind that "pretty kitchen" (as Michelle calls it) is an industrial kitchen with hard core restaurant style dishwashers, a large restaurant style silver sink etc. 

The sometimes post pictures of the kids in either kitchen. 

https://goo.gl/images/JUv2ZP

Okay. So that's basically what I thought. They do use both the little kitchen and the big kitchen for the family -- to the extent that they use kitchens. Which is not much, unless you count warming up crap they brought from somewhere. Got it. Thanks! The picture really helped. 

[GeeGolly]

2 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

So do they still have that kitchen? Is that the one they show sometimes with a bunch of sinks and a sort of cafeteria-line arrangement down the middle? I thought it was because it looks different from those other photos where you see Jana baking or something in the kitchen that looks more like a regular kitchen in the house. .... Did they get rid of the commercial kitchen or is it still there? 

They still have both. And the "pretty kitchen" has a lot of bells and whistles too.

[Churchhoney]

Thanks, everyone, for clearing up my confusion about the pair of kitchens! 

Now I have a few questions about the rest of the house layout ... Ummm... 

Just kidding. 

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, Churchhoney said:

Thanks, everyone, for clearing up my confusion about the pair of kitchens! 

Now I have a few questions about the rest of the house layout ... Ummm... 

Just kidding. 

LOL

http://hookedonhouses.net/2010/08/16/19-kids-counting-the-duggar-family-at-home-in-arkansas/

[BitterApple]

The photo of the girls' bedroom looks like a halfway house for teen mothers. It's creepy how they're holding the babies like its' their own kids. And of course the girls are busy doing the wimmins' work in the kitchen and laundry, while the boys play video games and shoot pool. 

Edited June 18, 2017 by BitterApple

[Churchhoney]

12 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

The photo of the girls' bedroom looks like a halfway house for teen mothers. It's creepy how they're holding the babies like its' their own kids. And of course the girls are busy doing the wimmins' work in the kitchen and laundry, while the boys play video games and shoot pool. 

And in the boys' bedroom, John David looks like a camp counselor checking in on his charges. But, no, he has to sleep in there, too. 

It really does look like an institution rather than a home. I can't see how any of them gets the sense that it's their own place. Especially when you throw in the fact that their parents in no way shape or form accept each of them for who he or she is. 

[Marigold]

I guess it's Ok to talk about their home here, right? 

In the recent episode, where Jessa did the hair for their triple date, did they have a sofa in the girls room????  A beat up sofa just jammed in, by the door?

[kokapetl]

They rarely use the equipment in the ugly kitchen except the huge sinks in the dishwashing area 

And the heat lamp cafeteria self serve area,

They don't use the fancy Family Ties range and the rest of the stuff behind Jana. 

[Churchhoney]

2 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

They rarely use the equipment in the ugly kitchen except the huge sinks in the dishwashing area 

And the heat lamp cafeteria self serve area,

They don't use the fancy Family Ties range and the rest of the stuff behind Jana. 

With all the new "ministers" they're collecting, maybe one day soon they'll start using the sinks for full-immersion baptism. Assembly line. No waiting. And the heat lamp table can be for drying people off and warming them up afterwards. .... Still wouldn't make use of the stove or anything, but it'd increase business in their kitchen investment. 

[Petrichor]

On 6/17/2017 at 9:49 AM, Churchhoney said:

Was just reading this ten-year-old account from a once-homeschooling mother that, to me, shows the desperate desire for safety and control that leads people to stuff like Gothard and to certain styles of homeschooling and childrearing. Except for the massive work ethic and much more respect for education and training in this account, a lot of this is similar to Duggar approaches, I can just feel this mother's fear and rigidity rising off the page. Picked it up because it's a family I've been aware of and it was decimated a few days ago by a double murder and attempted suicide. Safety was not forthcoming no matter how much she tried to engineer it.  And despite being very bent on confining their children, they weren't as confining as the Duggars, allowing at least three of the four kids to go off to college -- the two oldest now live in other states -- and as teens they were allowed to participate in homeschool debate, for example. All the struggle for control ended up being for nought, though.  Second-youngest boy, now age 25, killed his mother and younger brother and tried to kill himself but survived. Depressing.  Not just what happened, but the amount of fear of the world that the mother expresses here, to me.  Obviously there's a kind of personality that's just scared crapless of anything that isn't totally predictable and will go to huge lengths to shut out the unpredictable and new, it seems.

  http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:blbGVpi6jqkJ:stockdalefamilyband.com/stockdale-family-manual/+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us 

I just read the whole thing. Fascinating and terrible. She tried so hard, and she wanted things to be so certain. :(

[Marigold]

On 6/17/2017 at 4:28 PM, Mya said:

Has Alice ever been heard from again.  Everything she said turned out to be true wow.

Yeah, whatever happened to Alice????

That is really creepy.  She had all the facts 10 years ago. 

[Churchhoney]

4 minutes ago, Marigold said:

Yeah, whatever happened to Alice????

That is really creepy.  She had all the facts 10 years ago. 

And unless she was a real insider, it's hard to imagine that she was the only one. .... And of course she wouldn't be. There are almost always a lot of people who know your business, even when you imagine that no one does. 

[ariel]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Many real celebrities, athletes, politicians, get all kinds of perks when doing talk shows, press events and during filming. They have all kinds of money. The Duggars got a bunch of freebies and didn't name every item, it isn't that big of a deal, IMHO.

 

 

What I think is a big deal is that the Duggars think they deserved all the freebies because they are holier than the rest of us.  Their only "talent" is breeding like rabbits..  Also some of their leghumpers are so stupid that they think if they copy the Duggars's flavor of Christianity, have a lot of children,  Jesus will bestow upon them lots of free stuff too.

[JoanArc]

On 6/17/2017 at 2:00 PM, Mollie said:

So, yes, I stand by my statement that the Duggars were on a roll in 2007.  Why do you think they couldn't afford toilet paper then?  Please cite if you have a source.

Thanks Mollie, I will post a more lenthly rply in a few days (when i have time) -  I still disagree with your conclusions, though.

 

Quote

And the heat lamp cafeteria self serve area,

Those don't appear to be heat lamps.

 

33 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

There are almost always a lot of people who know your business, even when you imagine that no one does. 

The entire town, in fact. I kind of hope Alice is biding her time, waiting to drop a bomb when the times right. There has to be 'something' huge that's still covered up.

[Churchhoney]

32 minutes ago, ariel said:

What I think is a big deal is that the Duggars think they deserved all the freebies because they are holier than the rest of us.  Their only "talent" is breeding like rabbits..  Also some of their leghumpers are so stupid that they think if they copy the Duggars's flavor of Christianity, have a lot of children,  Jesus will bestow upon them lots of free stuff too.

Yeah, I agree. I think the Duggars, just like a lot of other celebs (so I guess it's one of the flaws of human nature), fell hook line and sinker for the idea that, if I get perks, it's because I deserve perks. If some money and swag comes my way, it's because I deserve money and swag .................And from there we start to treat everyone as if we're at the top of it and should be looked up to and those not so fortunate are rightly at the bottom. 

Swag for celebrities, Christian or otherwise -- lousy lousy lousy lousy lousy idea. (and yet we're addicted to treating famous people this way.....humans: not very bright)

[Mollie]

51 minutes ago, Marigold said:

Yeah, whatever happened to Alice????

That is really creepy.  She had all the facts 10 years ago. 

Alice was an original member of the Duggar home church from the time they used the old house on Johnson St.  So, she was there through all the public shaming of Josh during the sexcapades when he was caught viewing porn, etc.  She knows the family well and, for some reason, came to loathe Grandma Mary.  I think she and Mary were about the same age.  Grandma Mary is 76-years-old, so Alice may not even still be alive now.  Don't know. 

[Marigold]

Funny that Alice disappeared.  Maybe she was older and unable to keep up with the Duggar shenanigans?    She sounded so passionate and disgusted, you would think that she would hang around a bit, post, blog etc. 

I do believe that many people knew about Josh the Molester.  I do wonder how Alice knew about them all begging for money. 

I've been following the Duggars for years and years.  I missed Alice! 

 

EDIT: Posting at the same time, Mollie!  yes, bet she was older if she knew Mary so well. 

Edited June 18, 2017 by Marigold

[queenanne]

3 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Yeah, I agree. I think the Duggars, just like a lot of other celebs (so I guess it's one of the flaws of human nature), fell hook line and sinker for the idea that, if I get perks, it's because I deserve perks. If some money and swag comes my way, it's because I deserve money and swag .................And from there we start to treat everyone as if we're at the top of it and should be looked up to and those not so fortunate are rightly at the bottom. 

Swag for celebrities, Christian or otherwise -- lousy lousy lousy lousy lousy idea. (and yet we're addicted to treating famous people this way.....humans: not very bright)

Isn't the truism, "the less you need free shit the more people want to shovel it at you"?  Like Apple handing Oscar attendees new iPhones and similar.  Pretty sure Emma Stone can afford her own...

[Albanyguy]

3 hours ago, JoanArc said:

I kind of hope Alice is biding her time, waiting to drop a bomb when the times right.

Unless JD took her for a "plane ride" and she never came back.

[Churchhoney]

58 minutes ago, queenanne said:

Isn't the truism, "the less you need free shit the more people want to shovel it at you"?  Like Apple handing Oscar attendees new iPhones and similar.  Pretty sure Emma Stone can afford her own...

That's it all right. .... And we think we've got beyond that old-fashioned tributes to Olympic gods stuff. We do the same thing with ridiculous Hollywood actors. Those swag bags make me ill.

[kokapetl]

I mentioned earlier in this topic that Rebel Wilson was suing a checkout tabloid published by Bauer Media for defamation.

She won!

Rebel Wilson has landed a blow on the relentlessly aggressive media. 

[kalamac]

It's probably me not understanding the intricacies of defamation law, but I still don't understand how it's defamation when they were reporting the truth. She is in her 30s, and her birth name wasn't Rebel Wilson etc.  I thought it had to be false to be considered defamation.

Back to the mysterious Alice, good on her for at least trying back in the day to get something done to help the kids.

[doodlebug]

3 hours ago, kalamac said:

It's probably me not understanding the intricacies of defamation law, but I still don't understand how it's defamation when they were reporting the truth. She is in her 30s, and her birth name wasn't Rebel Wilson etc.  I thought it had to be false to be considered defamation.

Back to the mysterious Alice, good on her for at least trying back in the day to get something done to help the kids.

The facts were basically true, but the tabloid used them to assert that Rebel was a liar, a phony and an all around awful person. It wasn't the facts, it was their decision to use them as 'proof' of her lack of character to sell magazines that was defamation.

[questionfear]

8 hours ago, doodlebug said:

The facts were basically true, but the tabloid used them to assert that Rebel was a liar, a phony and an all around awful person. It wasn't the facts, it was their decision to use them as 'proof' of her lack of character to sell magazines that was defamation.

Exactly. The issue wasn't that they printed that, it's that Rebel Wilson never presented herself as being legally named Rebel Wilson from birth, and she never lied about her age. 

This would be the same as them claiming Tom Cruise was a liar because his real last name wasn't Cruise.

[RazzleberryPie]

On 6/18/2017 at 5:31 PM, ariel said:

What I think is a big deal is that the Duggars think they deserved all the freebies because they are holier than the rest of us.  Their only "talent" is breeding like rabbits..  Also some of their leghumpers are so stupid that they think if they copy the Duggars's flavor of Christianity, have a lot of children,  Jesus will bestow upon them lots of free stuff too.

Also - a huge part of their original appeal, is they stressed that they were 100% debt free, didn't have any loans or credit cards, and were these holy finacial gurus who scrimped to live within their budgets, unlike all of us sinners who actually paid for our homes and their contents.

[Sew Sumi]

Ran across this tonight. No internet in the first special means that they were probably working solely with the Wis-dumb booklets. Bankruptcy Law is also mentioned. 

 

Edited June 21, 2017 by Sew Sumi
that was strange.

[RazzleberryPie]

10 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Ran across this tonight. No internet in the first special means that they were probably working solely with the Wis-dumb booklets. Bankruptcy Law is also mentioned. 

 

That's the special where I remember thinking they were interesting. Just the logistics of how all this works. Still thought the bankruptcy stuff was bizarre, especially for kids who should be learning to read and write, but Michelle actually interacted more.

Do any of the kids besides Josh look like her? 

ETA: I remember watching this wth my mom, and she was very firm in thinking Josh was a smug ass who she wanted to smack. Mama knows best!

[JoanArc]

On 6/19/2017 at 5:34 PM, RazzleberryPie said:

Also - a huge part of their original appeal, is they stressed that they were 100% debt free, didn't have any loans or credit cards, and were these holy finacial gurus who scrimped to live within their budgets, unlike all of us sinners who actually paid for our homes and their contents.

They were debt free and barely used the internet. Then smartphones and social media happened - and now every last one of them is an addict.

[Genevrier]

Her voice sounded more normal then.

[RazzleberryPie]

The Possum wasn't as out of control, either. Michelle still had really weird, dated, cut it yourself at home hair, but it served the purpose of drawing toward the 'countenance'.

Now that we know what to look for, I wonder how many Gothard/ATI references we could find in that first special.

[Sew Sumi]

I got sucked in and also watched the final two segments. This was the special with the "ATI Bound" poster on the camper they hitched up to the old RV. Of course there was no explanation beyond being with "like-minded" people. Introducing the Holts and home church received the same sort of narration. Mechelle mentioned that a boy and girl were never left alone together. Saw Smuggar's crew cut, but it was when they moved from Johnson Rd. to the rental house. This would have been in 2005, a couple years after he was shipped off to Little Rock as "punishment" for molesting his sisters. He never went to ALERT, so I'm chalking it up to a haircut gone wrong.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Sew Sumi

[Mollie]

32 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

I got sucked in and also watched the final two segments. This was the special with the "ATI Bound" poster on the camper they hitched up to the old RV. Of course there was no explanation beyond being with "like-minded" people. Introducing the Holts and home church received the same sort of narration. Mechelle mentioned that a boy and girl were never left alone together. Saw Smuggar's crew cut, but it was when they moved from Johnson Rd. to the rental house. This would have been in 2005, a couple years after he was shipped off to Little Rock as "punishment" for molesting his sisters. He never went to ALERT, so I'm chalking it up to a haircut gone wrong.

That clip was from 14 Children and Pregnant Again! which aired on September 6, 2004, but was filmed in 2003.  Josh was sent to the Gothard facility in Little Rock in March, 2003, where he lived for three or four months.

[Sew Sumi]

I must have been watching the Moving In special. I admittedly wasn't paying much attention when the videos rolled over. I don't think they moved anywhere in 2003; the "rent house" was just supposed to be a bridge between Johnson Rd. and the TTH for a few months (they stayed there more than 3 months). I don't know of any other moves they made. 

eta: At the end of the last clip I watched, the chyron announced the birth of Hannie, which was 10/05 and saved for another special. It's pretty obvious to that the moving clips from 2005 from Johnson ro the rental were not in the original special. Holt and homechurch were, however.

Edited June 21, 2017 by Sew Sumi

[kokapetl]

The Tontitown "TTH" property now has another house on it. I can't post any photos of the house, that's against the rules, but if you look on google earth you can see it. 

[Sew Sumi]

That's Grandma Mary's "log cabin" house that they moved from its original property. It is apparently the house in which Boob and Deanna grew up. They posted pictures of it maybe a month ago. 

[louannems]

The Washington Post just put out a report of America's fertility rate. It's the lowest in history and will have dire effects on the future workforce.

Now the Duggars, I'm sure, will reproduce magnificently, however, due to their poor educational levels, will never be much help.

[Mollie]

Springdale officials have entered a motion to have the Duggar sisters' lawsuit against them thrown out of court.  They have also asked that the proceedings be halted until the judge's ruling is received and the completion of the appeals process if the ruling is unfavorable to the officials.  More and more delays.  This will drag on forever.

http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2017/jul/01/springdale-officials-ask-judge-to-toss-/