S15.E09: Meet the Top Ten

[ElectricBoogaloo]

34 minutes ago, mojoween said:

I was a bit uncomfortable with Nigel calling Hannahlei a warrior because of how he did it and who he compared her to.

When Mary said that every season, there's someone they all a warrior princess, I just rolled my eyes. Maybe that's because you guys are so lame and unimaginative that you can't come up with new things to say about different dancers each season.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Top ten

 

Magda & Darius - contemporary

Magda & Darius - cha cha

Genessy & Slavik - hip hop

Genessy & Slavik - contemporary

Chelsea & Evan - jazz

 

Chelsea & Evan - tap

Jensen & Jay Jay - samba

Jensen & Jay Jay - jazz

Hannalei & Cole - contemporary

Hannalei & Cole - paso doble

[Haleth]

Ok, I watched the second half last night and while some of the dancing was not as good as in the first hour, I thought it was enjoyable.

How did Nigel suddenly turn into the Church Lady with his comments about Jensen being too sexual?  Usually he is drooling over his perky little blonde girls.

I hope Chelsea gets a ton of votes because of her bravery for doing a tap.  That was so completely unfair to expect her to show any kind of skill or artistry after only a few days of lessons.

Neither Jensen or Chelsea is a favorite of mine but I thought both were treated poorly by the show.

[sharifa70]

15 hours ago, Rahul said:

I knew really soon into the opening number it was another writhe-y, roll-y Travis Wall routine. Left me cold as usual and the amount of ass kissing and smoke that gets blown up this guy's ass really irks me. I feel like it's kind of The Emporer's New Clothes with him. Either no one gets his choreography or everyone is afraid to speak up and say it's tortured and insipid, and the Emmy voters go along with it. Sickening.

Ohmigod So. Much. This. Seriously, my exact thoughts. 

I miss the way the show used to be all “meh” about the humble Mia Michaels. /sarcasm (Really, though, at least she could mix it up and even add in a bit of humor sometimes).

Jensen’s mugging for the cameras started to grate after about five seconds. Jay Jay is your partner, not me. Stop!

Replace the judges:

Nigel - icky, creepy, gross toward female contestants

Mary - dear god someone mute her mic or get her to start giving actual critiques. If the judges can slam Chelsea for not learning tap, surely she can critique Jay Jay’s lack of bounce? Or (perish the thought) quietly ask the choreographers to actually put some samba in the samba? That seemed like a lot of posing to me. If she thought about her comments beyond “WOOOOOOOOOO!” everyone might learn something.

Vanessa - if I had a dollar for every time she said something useful, I’d be about $1000 in debt right now. Stop giggling, Vanessa. Retire “you brought the fire.” 

tWitch can stay.

I also felt like that paso was awfully pose-y, but I must say out of all the Latin/ballroom styles, for me it’s always refreshing to see a paso when it’s the male partner who’s the experienced one. I love that it’s one of the few I can think of that’s not about just showing off the woman.

Edited August 8, 2018 by sharifa70

[Tikichick]

4 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

As a big Paul Karmiryan fan, when Nigel made his comments about ballroom boys and contemporary, I screamed out...WHAT ABOUT PAUL??!!! He spent Season 10 primarily dancing contemporary and jazz and went pretty far and got a lot of praise.

That explains why I thought my voice sounded unusual and I couldn't explain the echo.  We were yelling the exact same thing at Nigel.

How is it possible to forget someone who you hire regularly as an All Star?  Completely overlooking he's the past champion of the Armenian show.

[WhineandCheez]

Quote

Chelsea did not do the tap dancing that well, and I would not be surprised if she goes next week. 

Insert any other name into this and they would also go home. That was so very unfair.  And Nigel has to pipe in that he cannot wait to see Evan dance with gabby.  OF COURSE, because a tapper needs to dance with a tapper.  It's not equatable to a krumper doing ballroom, it equates with a krumper doing pointe work. When Chelsea gets kicked off, they need to nullify it and say they tried something new and it failed.  But no, they only have like 1/2 an episode until the finale.  Stupid show, This show used to be a high point of my summer.

Quote

Nigel - icky, creepy, gross toward female contestants

Ok he actually topped himself because now he is creepy with female contestants AND male contestants who dress as female!!! 100% creepy, 100% of the time!!

Jensen is only 20 and she's engaged??? Why??? She doesn't look pregnant!

Edited August 8, 2018 by WhineandCheez

[Tikichick]

Full disclosure, Jay Jay is one of my favs going into live rounds.

I've noticed a lot of mentions regarding flubbed moves/labored lifts with Jay Jay and Jensen.  Watching and listening I think they were partially a victim of wardrobe.  Cat's first comments as they approached for judges' critiques alluded to fishnets, etc.  I was confused because I thought Jensen's not wearing fishnets, is she?  Then I saw Jay Jay's shirt torn.  I think Jensen's shoes, and possibly missing earring were catching his shirt during maneuvers.  Hard to keep momentum and fluidity when suddenly you're stuck together in the midst of the action.  

[Koalagirl]

Finally caught up.  I think I have to buy a new remote because of the workout the mute button got every time Vanessa opened her mouth.  

[displayname]

Yeeeeeeah, I'm checking out.

[Mason]

7 hours ago, mojoween said:

Also I was a bit uncomfortable with Nigel calling Hannahlei a warrior because of how he did it and who he compared her to.

You mean them all being Asian?

[crossover]

10 hours ago, calipiano81 said:

As a big Paul Karmiryan fan, when Nigel made his comments about ballroom boys and contemporary, I screamed out...WHAT ABOUT PAUL??!!! He spent Season 10 primarily dancing contemporary and jazz and went pretty far and got a lot of praise.

I thought about Paul.  He was good at contemporary but I think Cole's on another level.

[realdancemom]

2 minutes ago, crossover said:

I thought about Paul.  He was good at contemporary but I think Cole's on another level.

The show likes to put people in boxes.  You can tell Cole, Evan, and Jensen are cross-trained.  I know that Jensen is for sure because all the people who went to the Vibe are.  I would even say that Magda is too.  Watching her dance, it seems that she took ballet.  Not a lot but enough to help with contemporary.  As I mentioned in the Top 10 Women episode, I like Magda because of the maturity she brings to her dancing.  Darius and Magda remind me of Danny and Anya for that reason.  Both couples bring a sense of maturity to their dancing.  Anya and Magda are also ballroom dancers.  I don't think Darius is as good as Danny but he's still technically very good.  He's my favorite out of this season's contestants.

My previous post already mentioned the unfairness of Evan and Chelsea doing tap.  It would have only worked if the female was like Lex.  Somebody that came in as a jazz/contemporary dancer but really has a lot of tap training.

18 hours ago, Jsage said:

Now this is an appropriate critique for Jensen. What Nigel said about her sexuality is not!

You and others bring up a good point.  Maybe, Jensen's face mugging is what Nigel meant by her being too sexy.  He just didn't express it well.  Jensen does do ballroom faces and she looks at the camera a lot.  Jenna and Witney did the same.  Most viewers don't like this and ballroom dancers don't get a lot of votes anyway.  So that's why both of them needed to be saved by the judges a lot.  Lindsay didn't look at the camera as much and I think people tend to like her personality more.  She did end up at the bottom a lot too but I think that's because she was ballroom.  Older female ballroom dancers like Anya, Iveta, and Karen have a really difficult time getting votes.  I don't know how Magda will do.  She is partnered with Darius and I think he is popular.  Ashleigh did well with Jakob.

[realdancemom]

5 hours ago, WhineandCheez said:

Jensen is only 20 and she's engaged??? Why??? She doesn't look pregnant!

That is common in Utah.  Not everyone marries that young but it is common. 

[Mason]

38 minutes ago, realdancemom said:

Maybe, Jensen's face mugging is what Nigel meant by her being too sexy.  He just didn't express it well. 

He had his face covered with his hands the rest of that segment.

[vdw84]

6 hours ago, WhineandCheez said:

Jensen is only 20 and she's engaged??? Why??? She doesn't look pregnant

It must be a Mormon thing. They seem to get married so young. If im not mistaken Lindsay her sister was only 22 when she got married. I couldnt phantom getting married in my early twenties.

[vdw84]

3 hours ago, Mason said:

You mean them all being Asian?

Nigel does this alot with racial comparisons which I think is uncall for. He made a similar remark last season with mark villaver comparing him to Bruno Mars because they are both Hawaiian or come from Hawaiian descent. Im sure he means nothing disrespectful by it but it just shows how ignorant one can be.

[RomanKat]

1 hour ago, realdancemom said:

The show likes to put people in boxes.  You can tell Cole, Evan, and Jensen are cross-trained.

From Cole's bio:  "In 2012 Cole was accepted into the Department of Theatre and Dance at Montclair State University where he began training classically in Ballet as well as in Modern dance....By his junior year he began dancing with a Modern dance company based out of New York, while being featured as a soloist at Montclair."  Prior to that, he was primarily DanceSport Latin.

Quote

  I know that Jensen is for sure because all the people who went to the Vibe are.

They and the Center Stage kids seem to always audition as ballroom, whether it's their best style or not.  Tanisha, Marcquet, Brooklyn, and even Jensen are stronger at styles other than ballroom, imho, but they're ballroom where SYTYCD is concerned.  It's probably strategic, where they may have a better shot at making the show by representing ballroom.

Quote

Maybe, Jensen's face mugging is what Nigel meant by her being too sexy.  He just didn't express it well.  Jensen does do ballroom faces and she looks at the camera a lot.

That's actually how I understood Nigel's comments at the time.  It was only after seeing the reaction that they struck me as inappropriate.

Quote

Older female ballroom dancers like Anya, Iveta, and Karen have a really difficult time getting votes.  I don't know how Magda will do.  She is partnered with Darius and I think he is popular.

I hope Magda does OK.  I like what she brings to the show.

Edited August 8, 2018 by RomanKat

[RomanKat]

7 hours ago, Tikichick said:

How is it possible to forget someone who you hire regularly as an All Star?  Completely overlooking he's the past champion of the Armenian show.

Or someone who graduated from Julliard and won the Canadian show?  i.e. Denys Drozdyuk, whom they saw audition for Stage vs. Street.

[crossover]

52 minutes ago, RomanKat said:

Modern dance is in Cole's bio:  "In 2012 Cole was accepted into the Department of Theatre and Dance at Montclair State University where he began training classically in Ballet as well as in Modern dance....By his junior year he began dancing with a Modern dance company based out of New York, while being featured as a soloist at Montclair."  Prior to that, he was primarily DanceSport Latin.

No wonder he's so good.  I just noticed he used his body and emoted like a contemporary dancer and not like a ballroom dancer who can do contemporary.

[Rahul]

1 hour ago, RomanKat said:

They and the Center Stage kids seem to always audition as ballroom, whether it's their best style or not.  Tanisha, Marcquet, Brooklyn, and even Jensen are stronger at styles other than ballroom, imho, but they're ballroom where SYTYCD is concerned.  It's probably strategic, where they may have a better shot at making the show by representing ballroom.

This show would have audiences think that the dancers rarely if ever have any training outside their designated style, but most viewers know that is seldom the case. It's a silly construct they've been running with for years, but often disprove in the video packages.

[calipiano81]

3 hours ago, crossover said:

I thought about Paul.  He was good at contemporary but I think Cole's on another level.

I like Cole's dancing, but I personally feel Paul connects better to the dance and to his partner.

Also, Paul had only been dancing (in Latin ballroom) for four years when he got on the U.S. SYTYCD show.

[calipiano81]

5 hours ago, Mason said:

You mean them all being Asian?

Nigel mentioned Amy Yakima...is she also part Asian (her last name "Yakima" does seem to indicate so)?

[7-Zark-7]

What is going on here?

Jay Jay dropped Jensen on her butt at the end of their first dance... and nary a comment from a single judge. 

The judges praised Genessy and Slavik, but I thought their opening hip hop number was terrible in both execution and choreography ( I did enjoy Nigel pointing out the old man moves though), and their second contemporary dance wasn’t much better.

Chelsea was definitely screwed by the tap performance, they had no business giving tap to a non tap dancer.

Hannahlei was awful in that Paso Doble in 1970's Krypton, but at least the judges didn't turn a blind eye to it. (Nigel needs to cool it with his Asian women warriors bit. Yes, it's better than thinking of them as Geisha stereotypes or something, but still, get it together old man.)

Magda and Darius' Travis Wall bow string dance was my favorite. It was the first time all night I felt I was watching a real SYTYCD production.

Every SYTYCD choreographer: “I’ve got a great new idea for this next dance... someone has all the power until the powerless one unexpectedly turns the tables.”

I miss Mia Michaels. Sure she was a crazy nightmare at times, but she really could choreograph the hell out of her pieces.

Edited August 8, 2018 by 7-Zark-7

[kechara]

I miss Wade

[7-Zark-7]

8 minutes ago, kechara said:

 

I miss Wade

 

I was just looking at his SYTYCD flower and bee dance with Jaime and Hok on Youtube. It was gorgeous.

[realdancemom]

2 hours ago, RomanKat said:

From Cole's bio:  "In 2012 Cole was accepted into the Department of Theatre and Dance at Montclair State University where he began training classically in Ballet as well as in Modern dance....By his junior year he began dancing with a Modern dance company based out of New York, while being featured as a soloist at Montclair."  Prior to that, he was primarily DanceSport Latin.

They and the Center Stage kids seem to always audition as ballroom, whether it's their best style or not.  Tanisha, Marcquet, Brooklyn, and even Jensen are stronger at styles other than ballroom, imho, but they're ballroom where SYTYCD is concerned.  It's probably strategic, where they may have a better shot at making the show by representing ballroom.

 

Thank you for the info on Cole.  I knew that he had cross-training but didn't know that he had that much experience.

As for the Vibe and Center Stage kids, it's definitely strategic.  There are a lot of contemporary dancers that audition with really good technique and flexibility.  I think Tanisha and Jenna were the only ones that could compete with them.  While Marcquet is better in hip-hop than ballroom, there are street hip-hop dancers that can do things to their bodies that humans normally shouldn't be able to do.  Ballroom is a good choice because it's very rare that you get somebody like Cole.  Previously, a lot of the ballroom dancers only did ballroom.

[BeeBop88]

5 hours ago, realdancemom said:

That is common in Utah.  Not everyone marries that young but it is common. 

It's because Jensen is Mormon. Her sister Lindsay, got married at 21 years old. I once had a Mormon co-worker that got married when she was 26, and she had 2 younger sisters that were already married before she got married. So getting married at 26 years of age in the Mormon world is considered old, I guess. LOL! When Jensen announced she was engaged on her Insta account, Lindsay did an insta on her account with the caption "Finally." I had to laugh at that. 

[RachelKM]

6 hours ago, realdancemom said:

Maybe, Jensen's face mugging is what Nigel meant by her being too sexy.  He just didn't express it well.  

I doubt it.  Nigel has no problem bringing up that critique and has with both male and female dancers on a number of occasions.  He's never confused his words on this issue before that I can recall.  And Nigel has a well documented history of being a creeper to the female contestants, especially the young blonde ones. 

In the unlikely event that it was his intention, his subsequent comment to Magda simply doubled down on the creepy.

 

ETA:  I just rewatched Jensen and Jay Jay's jazz and I didn't even really see much that could be called mugging.  Jensen looked at Jay Jay more than he looked at her.  She directed her connection at least as much, if not more, at him as the audience/jidges. So, if that was about mugging, it was still not terribly apt.  There was pretty much the standard about of ballroom face in the Samba, but even there it wasn't overly noticeable to me. 

Edited August 9, 2018 by RachelKM

[gik910]

I think a lot of the criticism of Jensen could have applied to Lindsey (to a lesser degree) and certainly Witney on their season too.  I love Lindsey now, she has had a chance to mature - but I remember her not being one of mt favorites during her season (not that she was bad by any means). I'll give Jensen a chance to settle in.  I do agree that she probably would not have been cast if she wasn't related. And yes, Nigel is gross. (Like, how the fuck is a dance to Exes & Ohs not supposed to be overtly sexual?)

Bus, meet Chelsea.  She handled being thrown a entirely different skill ( to a terrible rendition of a classic) like a pro. I hope she sticks around. (I actually thought that color looked beautiful on her in the tap routine). At least Twitch mentioned that this hasn't been done (which, seriously F-off show).  Save the tap for the special stuff  (like Nick & Jess in season or the Season 8 finale w/ those 2 and Matt Flint. P.S. I will talk about Jess whenever I can)

I admit that I wanted Nate, but Slavik was fantastic. Gennesy - less so.  (I would have taken Emily over Gennesy)

Loving Magda and Darius. Slight shades of Anya/Danny.  Darius was my guy coming off of last week - nothing has changed from that.  Jury is still out for the girls. Maybe Magda - I like my lady dancers with a little bit of maturity. 

 

Really wish we could of had a top 20.  Sigh, I'll take what I can get I guess.  But this going to be blood bath. 

 

Good things:

Starting out with the contestants as partners

Cat

Twitch

The stage looks a tiny, tiny bit more like the original one.

Cole's back piece - I would watch that man dance with his shirt off forever.

Cat ("Go arm wrestle or draw straws." She even makes nonsense delightful.

 

Questions to ponder:

How can such a creeper (Nigel) be the same man that has steered this show, one I love ( despite all of the valid issues we have with it)through some very rough waters?  It is a moral dilemma.

What happened to Jean Marc's wife? I miss her and her very red hair.

Will we ever see a choreographer like Wade again?

Is Vanessa what we have to deal with (for a younger demo appeal) for the shows survival?

[crowceilidh]

Quote

Also I was a bit uncomfortable with Nigel calling Hannahlei a warrior because of how he did it and who he compared her to.

I was hugely uncomfortable.  Mary's comment was an attempt to save the problem and it just made it worse.  

Quote

Quote

How did Nigel suddenly turn into the Church Lady with his comments about Jensen being too sexual?  Usually he is drooling over his perky little blonde girls.

 

When I first read this, because I get tired of the ageism inherent in the constant accusations of Nigel being a perv, I sorta thought that Nigel was making a stab at answering the accusations that he only let Jensen through because she was a hot young blonde.  He was showing that he doesn't approve of her merely being hot.  Once I'd read the whole page though, I became inclined to agree with those who thought he was referring to her pulling faces and he just went off script in such an awkward manner that he couldn't save himself.  The executive producer should really step up and pull him for the casual "orientalism" (as Edward Said would identify his comment to Hannahlei),....but wait...

 

Quote

Every SYTYCD choreographer: “I’ve got a great new idea for this next dance... someone has all the power until the powerless one unexpectedly turns the tables.”

I miss Mia Michaels. Sure she was a crazy nightmare at times, but she really could choreograph the hell out of her pieces.

Hilarious and true.

Edited August 9, 2018 by crowceilidh

[rasalas]

23 hours ago, WhineandCheez said:

Insert any other name into this and they would also go home. That was so very unfair.  And Nigel has to pipe in that he cannot wait to see Evan dance with gabby.  OF COURSE, because a tapper needs to dance with a tapper.  It's not equatable to a krumper doing ballroom, it equates with a krumper doing pointe work. When Chelsea gets kicked off, they need to nullify it and say they tried something new and it failed.  But no, they only have like 1/2 an episode until the finale.  Stupid show, This show used to be a high point of my summer.

While watching Evan and Chelsea in the tap routine, it looked to me that she was getting worse as it went along, that she started to bail on many of the tap steps. She was shown doing steps in rehearsal (or trying to) that she did not do at the same points in the live performance. If she had previously performed those moves in rehearsals and dress rehearsals -- moves that were already simplified -- that would explain better why the judges were so critical of her.

[springbarb]

I was just so happy to see the 10 dancing with each other, and getting the little "Get to know you clips." It felt like the old days.

I'm at the point where I only watch the dances themselves and not the judges' comments. It's less annoying that way.

Edited August 9, 2018 by springbarb
Another thought

[RomanKat]

20 hours ago, realdancemom said:

As for the Vibe and Center Stage kids, it's definitely strategic...Ballroom is a good choice because it's very rare that you get somebody like Cole.  Previously, a lot of the ballroom dancers only did ballroom.

Which makes sense, but devalues technical ballroom and makes better ballroom dancers who aren't cross-trained look bad.  A lack of cross-training is fair criticism for SYTYCD, but casual viewers insisting that someone like Marcquet is better *at ballroom* than someone like Kiki?  That's just screwed up, imho.  It wouldn't bother me, except for same casual viewers being able to appreciate good hip hop dancers in their own style even when they're not cross-trained in other styles.  I think part of it is TV dance shows--including DWTS--making cabaret, showdance, fusion ballroom, and lift-heavy adjacent styles (like salsa and Argentine tango) the "standard" for how casual viewers judge ballroom.  It's one reason I'm rooting for Magda and Cole to do well this season, because they're strong DanceSport technicians who appear to be versatile (fingers crossed).

ETA: That's not to say that there aren't strong cross-trained DanceSport technicians coming out of Utah and Miami, like Jenna, Lindsay, Brandon, Landon, and the Castro siblings, among others.

All that said, this recent NY Times article suggests that other styles have similar concerns with regard to SYTYCD.  I'd also add that great tappers were disadvantaged for many seasons before they introduced All-Star pairings, as you couldn't really see them in their own style save for the 30 seconds they'd be dancing for their lives.

Edited August 9, 2018 by RomanKat

[crossover]

6 hours ago, RomanKat said:

Which makes sense, but devalues technical ballroom and makes better ballroom dancers who aren't cross-trained look bad.  A lack of cross-training is fair criti accism for SYTYCD, but casual viewers insisting that someone like Marcquet is better *at ballroom* than someone like Kiki?  That's just screwed up, imho.  their lives.

Maybe you're right.  But I've always heard them say stuff like, they can only do ballroom.  Most people know sytycd is suppose to be based on versatility.  I think that's why people preferred Marcquet over Kiki.  They saw how the show tilted routines for Kiki.  And while they enjoyed Kiki's routines, they could tell he wasn't as versatile as Marcquet.  Casual viewers can usually see who's the best ballroom, jazz, etc dancer.  For some reason, the average sytycd fan doesn't value ballroom like they do hip hop or contemp/jazz?  And we sometime forget it's a TV show and not a true competition.  People vote their "favorite", especially when we had couples for a while.  In the past, viewers didn't warm to ballroom dancers--age/maturity or what?  I think that's why there's been so many Utah kids chosen--young and versatile.  They don't care if they win.  They just want to keep a variety as long as they can. 

That being said, I'm rooting for Darius and Magda.  Neither of them fit the type of contestant sytycd fans vote for but I can hope.

[realdancemom]

23 hours ago, RomanKat said:

Which makes sense, but devalues technical ballroom and makes better ballroom dancers who aren't cross-trained look bad.  A lack of cross-training is fair criticism for SYTYCD, but casual viewers insisting that someone like Marcquet is better *at ballroom* than someone like Kiki?  That's just screwed up, imho.  It wouldn't bother me, except for same casual viewers being able to appreciate good hip hop dancers in their own style even when they're not cross-trained in other styles.  I think part of it is TV dance shows--including DWTS--making cabaret, showdance, fusion ballroom, and lift-heavy adjacent styles (like salsa and Argentine tango) the "standard" for how casual viewers judge ballroom.  It's one reason I'm rooting for Magda and Cole to do well this season, because they're strong DanceSport technicians who appear to be versatile (fingers crossed).

ETA: That's not to say that there aren't strong cross-trained DanceSport technicians coming out of Utah and Miami, like Jenna, Lindsay, Brandon, Landon, and the Castro siblings, among others.

All that said, this recent NY Times article suggests that other styles have similar concerns with regard to SYTYCD.  I'd also add that great tappers were disadvantaged for many seasons before they introduced All-Star pairings, as you couldn't really see them in their own style save for the 30 seconds they'd be dancing for their lives.

Thanks for the article link.  I'll reply to the rest after crossover's quote.

16 hours ago, crossover said:

Maybe you're right.  But I've always heard them say stuff like, they can only do ballroom.  Most people know sytycd is suppose to be based on versatility.  I think that's why people preferred Marcquet over Kiki.  They saw how the show tilted routines for Kiki.  And while they enjoyed Kiki's routines, they could tell he wasn't as versatile as Marcquet.  Casual viewers can usually see who's the best ballroom, jazz, etc dancer.  For some reason, the average sytycd fan doesn't value ballroom like they do hip hop or contemp/jazz?  And we sometime forget it's a TV show and not a true competition.  People vote their "favorite", especially when we had couples for a while.  In the past, viewers didn't warm to ballroom dancers--age/maturity or what?  I think that's why there's been so many Utah kids chosen--young and versatile.  They don't care if they win.  They just want to keep a variety as long as they can. 

That being said, I'm rooting for Darius and Magda.  Neither of them fit the type of contestant sytycd fans vote for but I can hope.

Since I really don't read other social media, I honestly never read that people though Marcquet was a better ballroom dancer than Kiki.  Actually, I never read any comparisons between the two.   If there was comparisons on this forum, I forgot.  IMHO, Kiki was better in ballroom but Marcquet was more versatile.  Mary was about to really give Marcquet a harsh critique when he did a Standard routine until she found out that he was a Latin ballroom dancer and didn't really know Standard.  Like some other males on this show, Marcquet also started dancing late.  It's not like the females that start when they're three or just a little bit older.  So he didn't really have outstanding technique in any genre. 

This show was made for the cross-trained Utah and Miami dancers.  My daughters didn't dance at the Vibe but they have done shows with them so they do know the Arnolds, Witney, Marcquet, Brandon, etc.  The Vibe specializes in dances that fuse jazz, hip-hop, and ballroom.  They also try to incorporate lots of unique lifts.  My daughters prefer to do/compete in these type of routines than the Latin formation routines.  They think it's more enjoyable to perform.  I think that's what DWTS wants to do because they want to appeal to a younger wider audience.    

Agree that a lot of routines were dumbed down for Kiki to make him look better.  That's what bugs me about the show.  They make their favorites look better, e.g. Melanie.  Then they'll bus somebody that they want as fodder, e.g. Chelsea with tap.

Can't blame viewers if they don't know what to look for in ballroom.  Sometimes, Mary and Nigel will give constructive critiques but only if the contestant is not their favorite.  There have been plenty of times when people don't do well or botch something up, e.g. Jay Jay and Jensen's samba, and the judges don't say anything.  I wonder if sometimes the judges give up if the contestant is popular.  I remembered when Valerie was a hot mess when she did a Latin ballroom dance.  It was all praises and I was frustrated.  But then I remembered that she did a jazz or contemporary the week before.  She really got harsh criticism but she wasn't in danger the following week.  So maybe, that's why they didn't criticize her because they realized it doesn't matter.  I think viewers liked her partnership with Ricky and she ended up being second that season.

This is why I also don't think that having the same partners every week is fair.  We did get really good partnerships that way like Joshua and Katee, Donyelle and Benji, etc.  But it's not fair if you're not one of those power couples.

My favorite is Darius.  Hannahlei if my favorite female.  But I also Magda and Cole.  I think Cole and Darius are very versatile.  Magda has a maturity to her dancing that I enjoy.  Don't know how the tween voters would feel about that. 

[luvthepros]

On 8/8/2018 at 6:23 PM, 7-Zark-7 said:

I was just looking at his SYTYCD flower and bee dance with Jaime and Hok on Youtube. It was gorgeous.

Wasn't is flower and hummingbird?

[kechara]

Flower and hummingbird. 

Loved Ramalama...and almost all of his actually. 

[Mumbles]

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Did anyone catch when Vanessa said "You did not fail to disappoint" in one of her critques/gushes last night? I wish they hadn't brought her back as a judge.

Please, just replace her with a rotation of choreographers/All-Stars, already?

 

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That's why I would prefer if they go back to the S1 format where all of the partners are reassigned every week. It's more fair for everyone to get a new partner every week.

Yup. I have long maintained that Marko carried Melanie Moore the season she won. He put an artistic gloss on her stomping around.

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I too, thought Nigel was incredibly rude as he tossed Chelsea under the bus when talking about how simplified the routine was.  

When they cut to Anthony in the audience, he looked a little teary. Not sure if it was because of the shout-out as a great choreographer (which he is) or if he was taking the criticism of the routine to heart.

And I agree with y’all, the complexity and technique of tap dancing is discounted, as are genres considered “folky” like clog dancing and Irish step.  Very hard to master and an awful lot for them to ask Chelsea to learn in a day with a masterful partner who will make it look easy.

[crowceilidh]

I still find it bizarre that Melanie won that season and am totally willing to go along with your theory, Mumbles.  Marko deserved that win far more than the lumbering Melanie.

[Sharpie66]

On 8/8/2018 at 9:20 PM, gik910 said:

What happened to Jean Marc's wife? I miss her and her very red hair?

According to Jean Marc’s Wikipedia page: “The couple now resides in Boucherville, Quebec where France stays permanently with the kids, unless she is needed to appear on one of the TV shows of which Jean-Marc is a part. The couple also design and make ballroom costumes for professional dancers.”

Although “the kids” are now in their late teens and early 20s, so who knows?

Edited August 12, 2018 by Sharpie66

[displayname]

9 hours ago, Mumbles said:

He put an artistic gloss on her stomping around.

O_o I am not even a fan of her dancing, and think her technique was overrated, but her artistic qualities and tendencies in the routines that suited her were undeniable. Whether her limited repertoire alone was enough to get her the win is another matter.

[crowceilidh]

My recollection, probably from something aired on SYTYCDa, is that Jean Marc and France have at least one fairly disabled kid, so that may be why she stays home.  It's too bad as she is a great dancer.

[crossover]

8 hours ago, displayname said:

O_o I am not even a fan of her dancing, and think her technique was overrated, but her artistic qualities and tendencies in the routines that suited her were undeniable. Whether her limited repertoire alone was enough to get her the win is another matter.

It should not have been.  The main sytycd requirement is versatility.

[displayname]

2 hours ago, crossover said:

The main sytycd requirement is versatility.

Eh. It's popularity.

[realdancemom]

2 hours ago, crossover said:

It should not have been.  The main sytycd requirement is versatility.

Agree.  I wanted Marko to win that season.  He didn't get enough praises from the judges that season or as an All-Star.  I believed we talked about that last season too.  Melanie isn't one of my favorites on this show but I do think she's a really good contemporary dancer.  She wasn't tested enough on her versatility on the show.

[Mumbles]

They kept giving Melanie contemporary and jazz routines to do. The one time I remember her really being out of her element was a disco routine where she looked like she was going to have a heart attack when she was done. Imagine her trying tap like they made Chelsea do this week. It would have been comical.

[crossover]

1 hour ago, displayname said:

Eh. It's popularity.

Disagree.  The fans may vote on popularity but the show is based on versatility.  The judges/show bent over backwards to make people think Mel was versatile.  Even GaGa got in on the act.  Normally, the most versatile dancer doesn't win.  But most times, the winner was versatile.  This is where favorite/popular comes in.  Mel was just good at contemporary and average in jazz.

Edited August 12, 2018 by crossover

[kechara]

France and Jean Marc’s daughter has Rett’s Syndrome. I read their son has a phantom twin but whether that affects his health or not I don’t know. So she is needed to care for the kids although i think they might be early 20’s?  Too bad she’s not out and about any more. I enjoyed her with him so much

[displayname]

18 hours ago, crossover said:

Disagree.  The fans may vote on popularity but the show is based on versatility. 

It's a competitive reality show with an audience vote with the tagline "America's Favourite Dancer". Draw your own conclusions, I guess.

[Tikichick]

17 hours ago, kechara said:

France and Jean Marc’s daughter has Rett’s Syndrome. I read their son has a phantom twin but whether that affects his health or not I don’t know. So she is needed to care for the kids although i think they might be early 20’s?  Too bad she’s not out and about any more. I enjoyed her with him so much

They were a spectacular force as competitive dancers themselves back in the day.  Had that extra special something that made those watching unable to take their eyes away from them, no matter how many other couples were also on the floor.