Comics Questions and Info

[Rai]

Oh, in regards to the red eyes, Professor Zoom/RF is usually drawn with those. They're one of the ways to distinguish him from the other RF.

[Kromm]

I don't doubt Eddie will somehow become a Reverse Flash, but I'm still putting money on Wells to be the more dangerous Reverse Flash -- or Professor Zoom.  Again, his whole shtick has always been that the Flash needs to be the best hero he can be, and usually, a hero grows best by overcoming challenges (ya know, like recovering from the traumatic loss of family).  In the Blackout episode, we got this scenario, yeah? 

Right--that was one of my specs--that Reverse Flash and Professor Zoom are two different people in this reality.

[Kaoteek]

Agreed. And since the writers are clearly playing fast and loose with the backstory of both versions of Reverse Flash, I can see them having Future Thawne & Future Wells working together to influence Barry's life in the past. I'd say Thawne is in it for Iris (Future Iris might have dumped him for Barry, or she might have disappeared in the Crisis, which would, in turn, mean that Future Thawne wants revenge), whereas Wells is in it to save the world, and to make sure Barry is a great & mighty hero by the time the Crisis comes (which means, in typical Hunter Zolomon fashion, by overcoming grief & challenge).

 

So we'd have a combo of both versions of the Reverse Flash, and a time loop, with Future Wells giving Future Thawne the yellow suit, and sending him back to the past with enough intel & future tech to enable Past Wells to start building the suit, as well as start the whole Flash destiny, which in turn leads to Flash saving the world, and Future Wells insuring that he does by sending Future Thawne in the past, and so on.

 

Granted, there's still the pesky "two speedsters at the scene of Barry's mom's murder", but I think they'll have Barry try to stop it, only to realize that stopping it will create a time paradox (aka the Crisis), which in turn will lead him to let Yellow Flash kill his mom, thus insuring the timeline stays intact.

[Kromm]

Agreed. And since the writers are clearly playing fast and loose with the backstory of both versions of Reverse Flash, I can see them having Future Thawne & Future Wells working together to influence Barry's life in the past. I'd say Thawne is in it for Iris (Future Iris might have dumped him for Barry, or she might have disappeared in the Crisis, which would, in turn, mean that Future Thawne wants revenge), whereas Wells is in it to save the world, and to make sure Barry is a great & mighty hero by the time the Crisis comes (which means, in typical Hunter Zolomon fashion, by overcoming grief & challenge).

 

So we'd have a combo of both versions of the Reverse Flash, and a time loop, with Future Wells giving Future Thawne the yellow suit, and sending him back to the past with enough intel & future tech to enable Past Wells to start building the suit, as well as start the whole Flash destiny, which in turn leads to Flash saving the world, and Future Wells insuring that he does by sending Future Thawne in the past, and so on.

 

Granted, there's still the pesky "two speedsters at the scene of Barry's mom's murder", but I think they'll have Barry try to stop it, only to realize that stopping it will create a time paradox (aka the Crisis), which in turn will lead him to let Yellow Flash kill his mom, thus insuring the timeline stays intact.

We have the mystery of how Wells got that computer that tells him future stuff.  But at the same time it seems that Eddie is definitely contemporary.  If there's some second version of Eddie, we haven't seen any indication. I haven't completely ruled out the idea of Wells himself already being a time traveler though.  Just because we learned he has a past history in the contemporary world doesn't mean he hasn't ALSO jumped around time.

 

I think Eddie becoming a Reverse Flash lies all at Wells feet, although curiously if Wells DOES have future information, then the scene where he's seemingly surprised that the Flash's powers could be absorbed reads as a bit strange.  But the ending there definitely implied Wells wanted to take advantage of that. Eddie somehow becoming a recipient of that experimental result (and not necessarily the only one) seems to be a next step.  THEN at some point some person or persons with super-speed DO learn to Time Travel, but we don't know how and where the whole thing started.  I'm supposing we wind up having a loop.  There's nobody around yet who can time travel or who has extensive knowledge of the future (or how to go either forward or back to the past) beyond what that one future aware computer knows.  It was sent to Wells in some kind of dead drop.  Wells turns himself, Eddie or both of them into speedsters, and either, both or all three counting Barry eventually have some circumstance causing them to time travel back to the past. Barry's mom gets killed--I think as some side effect of a conflict because we didn't just see a yellow blur there, we saw red too.  THEN someone goes to the future and gathers up the tech to send back to Wells 1.0.

 

The part that's missing here is Iris.  In the classic stories Iris, although NOT a speedster, IS a time traveler.  This kind of interlocks with a "what if" I did a while back about "what if Iris isn't really Joe's kid" (despite the resemblance).  That's the classic story, I believe. The Wests adopt her, because she's actually from the future. Then eventually she gets send BACK there.  So... what if IRIS is the one who both ends (and started) the whole process by sending the computer back to Wells? That would make a nice circle, wouldn't it?  Or actually a double loop, since there's also an earlier bit of time travel where a child Iris is sent back. Of course, it could be super-simplified with Barry being the ultimate mover himself (if Iris isn't from the future), and he's the one who sent what needed to be sent back to Wells, but then that requires a certain level of coldness from him, knowing it would lead not just to his mother's death and father's imprisonment, but a lot of other death and angst too.

[Rai]

Oh, I absolutely think the other Flash at the time of his mother's murder is totally Barry. 

 

It's funny because one of my friends watching this has never read any of the comics, so he doesn't know what to expect at all.  But he does think Wells is from the future, although he thinks Wells is Flash himself, not necessarily an evil Flash.  So that's interesting.

 

And then I told him about Vibe, and he got very, very sad.

[bettername2come]

I'm curious about which Flash moved eleven-year-old Barry down the street.

[Kromm]

I'm curious about which Flash moved eleven-year-old Barry down the street.

I think the answer to that is obvious. Barry can't even BE there to TRY and save his mother unless his younger self escapes the fight. So it's not even an issue who he has to save first, because if he doesn't you get a Paradox.

So it's Barry being forced to save himself (perhaps that even causing him to not be able to save his mother... again).

[MarkHB]

From the "The Man in the Yellow Suit" (S01 E09) thread:
 

I'm a little rusty on Firestorm: his powers involve actual fire? I seem to remember his being able to rearrange molecular structures to transform one thing into another, without actually generating or manipulating fire. Am I thinking of the more kid-friendly version of his powers from the later seasons of the Suprefriends cartoon?

To the best of my recollection, classic Firestorm can affect non-organic molecules to transform one thing to another, fly, turn himself intangible, and fire blasts of nuclear energy. I suppose it potentially follows that he could shoot actual fire, but I don't remember him doing so.

He's always had Heat Miser's flaming head.  Beyond that, for a time he was deemed a Fire Elemental (alongside Earth Elemental Swamp Thing, Air Elemental Red Tornado, and Water Elemental Naiad), and while I didn't see many of those issues I would think he had significant fire-based powers at that time.

[Sandman]

I do remember Firestorm always had fire instead of hair. Thanks for the details.

Edited December 19, 2014 by Sandman

[MarkHB]

I've seen some mentions of the fact that Iris didn't exist in the 90's series. IIRC, while they used Barry Alien's name and possibly his police scientist background, everything else on that show was taken from the then-current cast Mike Baron had created for the comics, where the Flash was Wally West. Tina Mcgee, Linda Park, both came from a world where, so far as anyone knew, Barry and Iris Allen were both dead. So I think it's that alignment with the comics that caused Iris to be missing from that show.

[The Crazed Spruce]

I've seen some mentions of the fact that Iris didn't exist in the 90's series. IIRC, while they used Barry Alien's name and possibly his police scientist background, everything else on that show was taken from the then-current cast Mike Baron had created for the comics, where the Flash was Wally West. Tina Mcgee, Linda Park, both came from a world where, so far as anyone knew, Barry and Iris Allen were both dead. So I think it's that alignment with the comics that caused Iris to be missing from that show.

For what it's worth, Iris West did appear as Barry's girlfriend in the pilot of that show. From what I hear, the producers thought that John Wesley Shipp had much better chemistry with Amanda Pays than with the actress who played Iris, so the latter was quietly shuffled out of town before the second episode.

[quarks]

Paula Marshall, cast as Iris, was pretty terrible in the pilot. She's had a solid career since then, so I think it was just that particular role for her. According to IMDB it was only her third outing, and her previous two roles look really minor. Amanda Pays had been in several previous shows and on the stage. 

[driedfruit]

Didn't that show last for only a single season? I'd imagine if it went on longer they would just recast Iris. If Smallville had ended by s1 Lois Lane would've never been included either. 

[Oscirus]

I'm curious about which Flash moved eleven-year-old Barry down the street.

 

I rewatched the first episode again and it was definitely the yellow blur that moved him.

[bettername2come]

I rewatched the first episode again and it was definitely the yellow blur that moved him.

 

Yep. I should always rewatch before I post.

 

I read something today that had me more convinced than ever that Caitlin and Cisco are going to get powers, or at least that they have them in the timeline from Wells' magic newspaper.  According to Wikipediahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vibe_(comics):

Vibe's reintroduction in 2013 has sought to establish him as a more powerful character. Part of this was redefining his powers as having to do with interdimensional physics. Justice League of America establishes that Vibe's sonic waves have the power to disrupt the Speed Force, making him one of the few characters in the DC Universe who poses a serious threat to the Flash.

 

The footnote on the article says the issue is written by Geoff Johns. Knowing that cold can be used against Flash too, it seems really unlikely that two characters whose DCU equivalents can counteract the Flash's powers would be recruited here only for their scientific abilities. OR maybe Wells recruited them so they won't get their powers and pose a threat to Barry, which is why he was especially mad a Cisco making the cryo gun, because it wasn't supposed to have happened.

[phoenics]

One thing comics do really well is commenting on the immutability of time... so even if Wells tried to recruit Cisco and Caitlin to keep them from their "destiny" I wonder if stuff like that has a way of happening anyway. That's kinda the point of The Flash... he always tries to fix what happened to his mom and every time it leads to something even worse.

[Maverick]

 Isn't Vibe's big thing shooting sound waves from his hands?  Odd that they'd tool Pied Piper so close to Cisco's potential alter ego.  OTOH, with the rivalry between them maybe Cisco will eventually endow himself with sonic powers to stop PP.  With PP's sound powers one of the true threats to Flash, I can see a scenario where Flash can't deal with him so Cisco takes it upon himself to step up.

 

 I guess they're not going the route of eventually turning Hartley back to the right side of the law.  It's pretty hard to redeem someone who tosses random strangers off a damn just to lure someone out.  

[Trini]

  I guess they're not going the route of eventually turning Hartley back to the right side of the law.  It's pretty hard to redeem someone who tosses random strangers off a damn just to lure someone out.  

 

I wouldn't completely rule it out; if only because Mientus is one of the better guest stars they've had.

 

-------------------

 

So, the Royal Flush Gang. I know that characters can show up anywhere, but are they a mainly associated with Superman or Batman? Are they usually a Flash rogue?

[KirkB]

I think they are more associated with the Justice League in general, though on the TV shows you often see them running into Batman and Green Arrow because some versions of them are regular people in costumes. 

Edited January 28, 2015 by KirkB

[Rai]

They're usualy a Justicce League thing, and basically the go-to for "Hey, we need a threat with powers, but nothing that's one of the really big guns because this isn't about the villains as much this time."

[Maverick]

If the ever turn Cisco into Vibe, I wonder if Vixen will eventually show up. I think it would be cool, but my problem is I don't think I'd settle for anyone less than Gina Torres in the role. That's the problem with Justice League Unlimited, they cast actors who weren't just good with the voice but could actually play the role as well. Torres as Vixen, Nathan Dillon as Vigilante, CCH Pounder as Amanda Waller, Oded Fehr as Dr. Fate. All of them would kill those roles in live action. And speaking of JLU, Michael Rosenbaum has to have a role on this show at some point.

[Chip]

They are having a Vixen animated series that takes place in the Flash Arrowverse.

 

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/01/12/dc-comics-vixen-animated-series-coming-to-cw-seed

[Sakura12]

I'm thinking they need to start laying the groundwork for Iris' comic background to give her more to do. Maybe she starts investigating Wells and he says something to her about maybe adopted and she starts to look into that. I think he singled her out for a reason during his press conference. If she finds out that's she's not from this Time that could help explain why she feels so lost, she's supposed to be living in another time. 

[Trini]

Is the current Flash in the comics really young?

I'm just asking because it's interesting that they cast Ezra Miller in the feature film, and he's about 2 years younger than Grant Gustin. (And both can pass for teens.) Maybe the film will be an origin story, but I would have thought they'd get someone with more action movie cred. The fact that both Flash actors are skinny, young, and young-looking guys makes me think there's a DC preference, maybe.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Trini

[FurryFury]

The fact that both Flash actors are skinny, young, and young-looking guys makes me think there's a DC preference, maybe.

 

I think that with this show, they just wanted the hero to contrast Oliver, so they chose a younger and a skinnier guy (and gave the character a completely different personality).

[driedfruit]

Barry is a bit of a bore personality wise so they could be trying to merge him with Wally/Bart and making him younger is part of that. 

 

That said, Grant doesn't look too young to me. His lanky build and teenage styling aside, his face/skin isn't very youthful even for a twenty something (guessing that's thanks to the LA sun). 

Edited February 10, 2015 by driedfruit

[MarkHB]

Barry is a bit of a bore personality wise so they could be trying to merge him with Wally/Bart and making him younger is part of that.

 

There's precedent for that.  The 90's series used Barry's name, Rogues, and CSI career, but pretty much everything else, including the supporting cast, came from the then-current comics series where Wally was the Flash and Barry was dead*.

 

* Or, alternatively, moonlighting at Marvel.

[Trini]

75 years of the Flash video. Wow, his costume has been fairly consistent over the years.

[Rai]

Yeah, once it was redesigned from the original '40s look, they've never really altered it much.   Which made the times Barry AND Wally were both running around kind of confusing.  You had to look at the belts and boots to tell them apart.

[Sakura12]

Pardon my ignorance and apologies if this is veering off topic, but I've seen reference in previous posts about Iris being from the future, and I don't get it, which means it's probably some comic reference I'm not aware of... Would anyone care to explain it please? (I have googled but there are so. many. versions!) TIA!

 

In one version of the comics (New Earth) Iris was born in in the 30th century to Eric and Fran Russell and sent to the 20th century as an infant, where she was raised by the West family. I think she discovered it while looking through her father's things. She goes to the future for awhile an comes back to the present with future knowledge. 

Edited April 3, 2015 by Sakura12

[MarkHB]

It wasn't just the New Earth Iris who was a time-traveller from the future; the original Iris was, too.  And speaking of that, for all the mentions of the show doing a riff on Flashpoint, lets be thankful that they won't be doing the biggest drag of a story ever: The Trial of The Flash.

[helsinkibaby]

Thank you!

[Actionmage]

I was so excited at opal City's name-drop, I double-checked who all is supposed to operate there.

 

(From Wikipedia)

Opal City is a fictional city set in the DC Universe. Created by James Robinson and Tony Harris, Opal City first appeared in Starman vol. 2 #0 (October 1994). "The Opal" has been established as the home of several DC Comics characters, most notably several super-heroes who have operated under the name of Starman. Other, non-Starman related heroes who have come to call Opal City their home are the second Black Condor and the Phantom Lady, as mentioned in Teen Titans vol. 3 #20, as well as the Elongated Man. The city itself is first mentioned in Action Comics #251, April 1959 as the name of a ship, the S.S. Opal City which Superman rescues from a modern-day pirate crew. It can be inferred that Robinson named the city due to his vast knowledge of obscure comics continuity from both the Golden Age and the Silver Age.[citation needed]

 

Maybe the spin-off can incorporate a few of these folks? I would love to see Elongated Man and his wife, Sue! They are Nick and Nora Charles- types ( or Jonathan and Jennifer Hart for the really young) and the necessary CGI would, I think, be minimal, at least for Ralph. Then again, I could get behind an updated Phantom Lady too!

[Cirien]

Wasn't Ralph amongst the dead when Eobard was listing them off against the electricity vampire in ep 1x 07?

 

Maybe they could go with the newer incarnations?

[MarkHB]

Ralph was listed as dead... but so was Ronnie Raymond.  Or, it could be a different Ralph Dibny that died.  The bigger conceptual problem is that Elongated Man gets his powers from ingesting a drug, and that may be a no-no these days.

 

Starman, particularly the Jack Knight version from the 90's that is the one I was most familiar with, would be amazing.

[Cirien]

Ralph was listed as dead... but so was Ronnie Raymond.  Or, it could be a different Ralph Dibny that died.  The bigger conceptual problem is that Elongated Man gets his powers from ingesting a drug, and that may be a no-no these days.

 

Starman, particularly the Jack Knight version from the 90's that is the one I was most familiar with, would be amazing.

Well we know Ronnie was presumed to have been killed. And we also know that Metahumans exist that have nothing to do with the particle accelerator. Maybe Ralph could be one of those metas

[Actionmage]

Wasn't Ralph amongst the dead when Eobard was listing them off against the electricity vampire in ep 1x 07?

 

I was thinking he may have appeared dead, like Barry appeared to be having heart attacks in his coma--something else was happening at the molecular level that regular hospital personnel aren't trained to look for think about.   Ralph and Sue could have moved to Opal City to start over/ continue their lives in a seemingly less dangerous city. I can see Ralph using the " reports of my death have ben greatly exaggerated."  Unlike others we could talk about, I see Ralph telling those closest about his condition. ;) Not a secret, but not dealing with Harrison Wells.

[Cirien]

I was thinking he may have appeared dead, like Barry appeared to be having heart attacks in his coma--something else was happening at the molecular level that regular hospital personnel aren't trained to look for think about.   Ralph and Sue could have moved to Opal City to start over/ continue their lives in a seemingly less dangerous city. I can see Ralph using the " reports of my death have ben greatly exaggerated."  Unlike others we could talk about, I see Ralph telling those closest about his condition. ;) Not a secret, but not dealing with Harrison Wells.

That was my second thought..see above

[Actionmage]

IA that the misidentification of Barry and Ronnie's trauma(s) could get us Ralph. The rest is just my head cannon/ fanwank for how we might get there.

[phoenics]

I have a theory now about Barry being in the coma after the lightning struck him.

I'm wondering if the lightning itself wasn't lightning, but actually the speed force? Or maybe the combination of the chemicals and the lightning created the speed force? And then the reason Barry was in the coma for all of that time was because the speed force was attempting to absorb Barry back into the speed force?

That's a risk all speedsters have when engaging with the speed force - it's kinda like a beacon, right - that would absorb them all back into it when they're accessing it?

So, Iris - known in canon for being Barry's lightning rod back to the real world by giving him a very human and very intense emotional connection back to his life - Iris sits with Barry and makes this impassioned plea in 1x20 (The Trap) for Barry to come back because they need him... and she needs him...

Then she puts her hand over his and a blue spark erupts between his left ring finger and her hand... I think THAT was the speed force reacting to her and I think THAT moment with Iris is actually what eventually propelled Barry to wake up... though it took some time.

I think the show just showed us the speed force concept.

[Trini]

For people like me who aren't familiar like the comics stories, I thought these were helpful:

Easter Eggs and DC Comics References in "Fast Enough"

How The Season Finale Synchronized Flashpoint

 

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... The part that's missing here is Iris.  In the classic stories Iris, although NOT a speedster, IS a time traveler.  This kind of interlocks with a "what if" I did a while back about "what if Iris isn't really Joe's kid" (despite the resemblance).  That's the classic story, I believe. The Wests adopt her, because she's actually from the future. ...

 

What if --on this show-- the time traveler is Iris' mother? Maybe that's why she isn't around, she went back to the future.

[Sakura12]

Iris' mother being a time traveler would be a more interesting way to explain her absence. She came to this time, fell in love with Joe had Iris then had to go back to her time to keep her daughter safe. Let a woman be a hero for once. Also Joe doesn't know about his wife, for his protection. But with the way this show rolls, Joe probably knows and is not telling Iris to protect her from secrets. 

[KirkB]

Someone more versed in the comics correct me if I'm wrong, but after the original Crisis on Infinite Earths, where Barry died, wasn't it later revealed the lightning which hit him and gave him powers in the first place was actually the essence of Barry himself through the speed force?

Edited May 21, 2015 by KirkB

[MarkHB]

KirkB, you are correct. I can't find a copy of the page where they showed it, though.

[Trini]

So apparently the latest version of the Flash costume in the comics now has a red background for his chest emblem, just like the TV show costume. Weird, since I thought that little change was one way to show that the show is different from the comics. (And not in these forums, but I know the red (not white) of the emblem was An Issue when the first pictures of the suit came out.)

[Trini]

So many speedsters in DC comics.... Fleshing out THE FLASH: What DCU Speedsters Should Come Aboard Next?

[Trini]

DC All Access explains Earth 2: the world Jay Garrick is from. However, I'm sure the show is doing their own take on the concept.

 

Edited October 12, 2015 by Trini

[Rai]

What I found interesting about Zoom's costume on the show tonight is that it reminds me so much of the Black Flash design, particularly that Tony Daniel take on it.  I'm sure you nerds noticed it already, but hey, this one is killing all the Speedsters.  Wonder if there's going to be something there.

[phoenics]

What I found interesting about Zoom's costume on the show tonight is that it reminds me so much of the Black Flash design, particularly that Tony Daniel take on it.  I'm sure you nerds noticed it already, but hey, this one is killing all the Speedsters.  Wonder if there's going to be something there.

Holy cow - now I need to go do some more research. I don't know why I didn't think of this before! With Patty being on the canvas - oooooh that makes perfect sense!

[Maverick]

 So they've given Savage a new backstory here?  I didn't think he was entwined with the Hawks.  I thought he was a caveman that fell asleep next to a meteor, long before ancient Egypt.