Comics Questions and Info

[Lisin]

Here's a topic for questions about the comic and how it (may) relate to the show, I tagged it as spoilers but this isn't a "spoiler" topic for actual show info, just spoilers in the sense that these themes and stories may be played out on the show. 

[Sakura12]

I wonder if they will be doing Iris West's storyline for the comics? Or will that be too much?

[GHScorpiosRule]

And now I'm wondering if Caitlin will turn into Killer Frost, since that's who she is in the comics. From the trailer, it looks like she's friends with Barry and on his team of friends.

[Sakura12]

It's interesting to see a friend turned baddie, but only if it's done right. And after Arrow I'm not sure if they can. 

[Potanical Pardon]

I wonder if they will be doing Iris West's storyline for the comics? Or will that be too much?

I hope so. I don't think that it would be too much. It's pretty basic time-travel stuff when it comes to her. And we already know from the trailer that they're not going to shy away from time-travel/alternate futures. Besides, you can't have The Flash without a healthy dose of time-travel/alternate universe stuff.

[Kromm]

In the Det. West topic we were talking about if the police would be at odds as much with Flash as they are with Arrow.  On one side we have the obviousness of that as a plot device for ANY TV show and the precedent from the Arrow show.  On the other hand, if this is taking at least a little from the comics, it's worth noting that in the comics at least, while Green Arrow only barely remains publicly tolerated, Flash gets this treatment...

 

 

Now I don't expect an actual Flash museum to appear on this show, even if it runs for a decade, but I do think it's worth thinking about the vibe this show may pull from the comic overall.  Flash likely won't kill (or if he does it would probably be some big season ending super-angsty thing).  So the police, the public, etc. should all be on his side, unless the show tries to pull some kind of Batman like thing where some people blame him for the super-creeps because he draws them to his city.

[The Crazed Spruce]

I'm actually hoping that the Flash Museum turns up somewhere down the road.  Not necessarily in the first season, but definitely after he establishes himself.

[jester]

And now I'm wondering if Caitlin will turn into Killer Frost, since that's who she is in the comics. From the trailer, it looks like she's friends with Barry and on his team of friends.

Or if Cisco turns into Vibe. Not a villian in the comics but it would be interesting seeing one of his friends turn dark and the other not in the relation of powerful changes.

[Maverick]

 Isn't STAR Labs associated with Superman?  Or is it some pan-DC entity?   

[The Crazed Spruce]

S.T.A.R. Labs started in the Superman comics in the late 70's-early 80's, but it quickly started showing up in the rest of DC's comics.  Basicaly, the main headquarters are in Metropolis, but they have divisions in pretty much every city with a superhero.

[Chip]

This would not be the appropriate thread. I moved the discussion to a new topic.

[Actionmage]

My theory on a return for Multiplex, probably already theorized by others, is that one of his clones survived.  I am glad that the show went with a newer version of his outfit, as the first "official" one was pretty uninspiring. (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_9Drna69BvE/TMy3aJAgOmI/AAAAAAAAHS4/I6wRoqEOKoQ/s1600/000000000000000000000.JPG)

 

With Barry's already a crime lab dude, I would hope he'd take the step of becoming officially deputized as his Flash persona.  That would also help make a distinction between this show and Arrow. As Ollie started out with bodies to answer for, Barry can get in a more positive position with the Central City PD. Hopefully, Barry comes to that idea himself, but the way Joe is being written so far, it would make sense for Joe to bring this up to Barry as a way to "protect" Barry in the field. 

 

As far as Caitlin going Killer Frost, I would hope not, actually. Not that Ms. Pannebaker couldn't do it right, but with Wells, Barry, and her Ronnie not being "normal", I would want her to stay a touchstone of humanity. Maybe after a couple of seasons, she could end up picking up the mantle, but  I would hope she would stay regular human for a bit.

 

While my squee at the mention of Caitlin's Ronnie was very fangirly, it has not gone away. So excited to see about that!

[Actionmage]

Okay the marquee in Episode 3 was fun! 

 

First? Blue Devil 2! Goodness me! I might just get the idea a certain stuntman may visit.  Second? The Rita Farr Story!  She was OG Doom Patrol! She's Gar/Beast Boy's adoptive mom! Just so fun to see!

 

Much thanks to the set decorators who have obviously done some research and are making this long-time DC fangirl's  Tuesday nights!

[Chip]

I noticed Rita Farr but not Blue Devil. That's great. 

[NumberCruncher]

Hmm...I wonder how significant Caitlin's reference to her and Ronnie as "Fire and Ice" will be to future storylines on the show.  Just an Easter egg or actual plot?  Time will tell.

[Chip]

Easter egg for sure if she turns out to be who her name indicates.

[Kromm]

Easter egg for sure if she turns out to be who her name indicates.

I'm thinking more "fake out" than straight Easter Egg.

 

My current theory is this. 

 

Just as I think Thawne is a fakeout for Professor Zoom and Wells the real thing, I also think Caitlyn Snow is a fakeout.  But of a slightly different type.  I think there IS no Killer Frost, but she's a gateway to someone being (or winding up as) Captain Cold.

 

If suddenly some brother of hers shows up and is named Leonard, that might be it in an easy nugget (not that Caitlyn Snow is anything like Leonard Snart's sister, but if he's Leonard Snow now, it would be a whole reinvention anyway).  Although there are other ways they could do this. She could get some new romantic storyline where she's involved with a Leonard, for example. Theoretically even Ronnie Raymond could turn out to be the Arrowverse/Flashverse Captain Cold, although if they DID go that way I'd think it was really lame.

 

I suppose it's also possible they could go all Arrow, have a sister to Caitlyn we get to meet, and SHE'S Killer Frost, but I think that's the least likely possibility.

 

Or Caitlyn is Killer Frost.  If so, maybe just to counterbalance the fact that clearly Thawne ISN'T Zoom--so maybe they'd be trading one obvious comic book fulfillment for one big fake out.  The problem then becomes.... how do you account for Captain Cold then?  He's a major Flash villain, whereas Killer Frost would just be a BORROWED one, and I doubt they'd see the need for two cold themed villains.

Outside chance: Thawne is Captain Cold (since Wells is Zoom).

Okay, never mind. I'm VERY behind on casting news.

 

It seems Wentworth Miller has been cast as Captain Cold. That rules out half my theories.

[marketdoctor]

They could have multiple villians with similar powers/MO if:

 

1.  One inspired another one.

2.  The villian had something that ALMOST worked.

3.  The powers were from different sources (one's a blast metahuman, the other is not.)

 

Or it could be that one moves somewhere else (say, Gotham City.)

Showing my work:  the comics have several super-speedy characters; some good, some bad.  Also, the Batman part of the DCverse has the Joker, the Riddler, and (in the tv show) the Puzzler, though he was only in one story.  Incredibly the Joker and the Riddler were both often interesting villians.

[Maverick]

Also, the Batman part of the DCverse has the Joker, the Riddler, and (in the tv show) the Puzzler, though he was only in one story.  Incredibly the Joker and the Riddler were both often interesting villians.

 

 The Puzzler episode was actually written as for the Riddler.  At the last minute, Frank Gorshen wasn't available so they created the amazingly similar Puzzler.

 

 Since they're presumably bringing on Firestorm, they would probably want at least one of his rogues.  My real question is, how are they going to handle Firestorm.  I only know him from the 80s Superfriends but as I recall he's fairly powerful and you would expect him to be helping Barry on a regular basis.  Will they have him move to a different city an pop up occasionally?  Be cured?  Be killed, and that's what drives Caitlin to become Killer Frost?  Maybe they'll really veer off and make Firestorm a villain and Caitlin becomes Killer Frost (or less deadly named, maybe even Ice) to stop him. 

[Agent Dark]

Hmm...I wonder how significant Caitlin's reference to her and Ronnie as "Fire and Ice" will be to future storylines on the show.  Just an Easter egg or actual plot?  Time will tell.

There are actually two superheroes in the DCU named Fire and Ice.  Beatriz da Costa has green flame powers and Tora Olafsdotter has control over ice and snow.  They're best friends and both mainstays of the Justice League International.

 

I think it was more like that the Fire and Ice reference was more of a nod towards Firestorm and Killer Frost though.  Technically Firestorm's powers lean more towards the nuclear/atomic side though, not plain old fire... :p

[Kromm]

There are actually two superheroes in the DCU named Fire and Ice.  Beatriz da Costa has green flame powers and Tora Olafsdotter has control over ice and snow.  They're best friends and both mainstays of the Justice League International.

 

I think it was more like that the Fire and Ice reference was more of a nod towards Firestorm and Killer Frost though.  Technically Firestorm's powers lean more towards the nuclear/atomic side though, not plain old fire... :p

I honestly don't think this is even a question of maybe.  Firestorm has "fire" in his name.  Both the character of Caitlyn Snow AND her potential villain identity are an inch away or so from ice.  Those JLI characters are neat, but I think the chance of them even having a tiny bit of relevance to this show is about 0%.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Kromm

[Actionmage]

Okay, Leonard Snart's sister got a mention, not by name. Isn't she Golden Glider in the comics?! ::Double-checks:: Yes, she is. In order to possibly swerve expectations, could Lisa Snart end up a Killer Frost  candidate? Should she?

[Ariah]

Felicity saying about Barry running so fast he might become  "a dust in red suit" brought back memories from the Crisis on Infinite Earths.

[88Keys]

My husband thinks that Eddie is going to end up being Reverse Flash.  I haven't really seen anyone else bring up this theory.  Thoughts?

[Iamsweetdee]

If I remember correctly, there isn't just one Reverse Flash. There have been several based upon which Flash and when.  Eddie Thawne being one of them. 

[Kromm]

My husband thinks that Eddie is going to end up being Reverse Flash.  I haven't really seen anyone else bring up this theory.  Thoughts?

It hasn't been brought up much, because in the comics the Reverse Flash's NAME is Eddie Thawne.  With apologies to your husband, I think it's deemed "obvious" enough that the show wants us to think Eddie is that villain, thus we've rarely bothered to bring it up, because those who meander to this particular thread (or put it under spoiler tags in the other topics) know that fact pretty well,  Instead we've largely been speculating on other possibilities, for example Welles maybe being that villain (in his case the link being not only his behavior--protecting the Flash in a heavyhanded violent way, and being from the future, but also that he's close in ways to the Reverse Flash's other label, "Professor Zoom").

Edited October 30, 2014 by Kromm

[88Keys]

Yeah, Mr. 88Keys knows that Eddie is a bad guy in the comic books.  To me though, it seems like Wells being the bad guy is obvious on this show.  They really haven't done much with Eddie.  We barely know anything about him. 

 

Based on what I've been learning about the Flash comic book world, it sounds like pretty much everyone on this show is going to turn evil at some point.  :)

[Actionmage]

Not Cisco!  He just has a bad 80s costume happen to him. (http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Paco_Ramone_(New_Earth)/Images)

[FurryFury]

I'll just be very disappointed if Wells turns out to be a villain. It would be way too obvious. Not a comic book reader, so I judge the show on its own, but even Eddie being a villain would be less predictable at this point. The writing tries it damnedest to make us think Well is up to no good.

 

Really, the only thing that would surprise me ATM is Daddy Flash being a bad guy and having killed his wife somehow. Or Iris becoming a bad guy, simply because everyone else is much more likely.

Edited November 2, 2014 by FurryFury

[Kromm]

I'll just be very disappointed if Wells turns out to be a villain. It would be way too obvious. Not a comic book reader, so I judge the show on its own, but even Eddie being a villain would be less predictable at this point. The writing tries it damnedest to make us think Well is up to no good.

 

Really, the only thing that would surprise me ATM is Daddy Flash being a bad guy and having killed his wife somehow. Or Iris becoming a bad guy, simply because everyone else is much more likely.

I think the only real fake-out I wouldn't expect (except now I've started to think about it) would be if Cisco was a baddie.  Wells, Eddie, Caitlyn, all seem to have some opening for it.  

 

Then besides the Secret Bad Guy Pool, there's also The Dead Pool. I suppose Joe is the primary candidate for that second one. I admit I keep expecting Quentin Lance to die off on Arrow, and he hasn't yet, but if it's NOT happening with the cooperative cop on one show, then it pumps the possibility on the other related show.

[FurryFury]

Either Joe or Daddy Flash. Barry has way too many father figures. If they'll ever want to up the angst factor, then Joe will have to go - his influence on Barry is too strong and positive.

Edited November 2, 2014 by FurryFury

[Kromm]

Either Joe or Daddy Flash. Barry has way too many father figures. If they'll ever want to up the angst factor, then Joe will have to go - his influence on Barry is too strong and positive.

The key is that Daddy Flash cannot and IMO will not die until he's proven innocent and released from jail.  The moment he is... his days on this Earth (well, that Earth) are numbered.  They might as well have a countdown clock in any scene with him once he's out.

 

Whereas Joe getting knocked off can happen, I think, in any season ender or opener, either before or after the real Dad gets out.  Although if Joe is bumped off, that probably suspends the Death Clock on Daddy Flash for a while (in other words, he could get out right after Joe dies and then maybe gets a few seasons out of it).  

 

I'm supposing there's also room for Eddie to bite it.  if he's not Reverse Flash/Zoom, then the likelihood of him winding up taking a dirt nap actually climbs a lot, I think.  Eddie has to bite it to free up Iris.  Unless, of course, as I pointed out somewhere else (it may not have been this topic) there's some switcheroo with Eddie, and he's fated to be some OTHER DC super-powered character (clearly not Firestorm, or Captain Cold, but there are plenty of other ones).

Edited November 2, 2014 by Kromm

[FurryFury]

The key is that Daddy Flash cannot and IMO will not die until he's proven innocent and released from jail.  The moment he is... his days on this Earth (well, that Earth) are numbered.

 

I doubt he'll stay there longer than s1 finale. And there probably will be some additional twist to his character.

[opus]

If this is the right place for it, the Flash tie-in comic is kind of weak.

[jester]

Dropping more easter eggs it seems. Plastique's contact Cameron Scott is an alias for Captain Atom.

[Rai]

Longtime poster from TWOP, finally making my way over here...I'm surprised any comics fan might think Harrison Well's not really HUnter Zoom.  His whole deal was forcing the Flash to become a better hero through overcoming all the ordeals Zoom would throw his way.  And Harrison Wells makes me think of H.G. Wells...and his time machine.  Something tragic's destined for Eddie Thwane, ain't no doubt there, but all my money's on Harrison to be Nora's murderer and the big bad to come.

 

Makes me very worried for Joe, actually.

[chaos is welcome]

Is there no actual spoilers/spec thread in this forum? I too am very worried for joe after the latest ep. I read a blind item awhile back that gave two pointsd the reverse flash costume was awesome and that ep 8 was devastating. This was before the rf pics, so I suspect strongly after this last ep that joe is a goner in the cross.

The most recent ep made it poss for both Eddie and wells to be "in" on reverse flash. I kind of wonder if perhaps they are working on concert.

If there is a better place for this disc. Pls let me know. Didn't want to place w ep discussion because of the blind item I mentioned.

[marketdoctor]

 

If I remember correctly, there isn't just one Reverse Flash. There have been several based upon which Flash and when.  Eddie Thawne being one of them.

 

You're correct (according to Wikipedia.)  Dr. Wells seems a reasonable candidate for The Rival, though that was before my comic-reading time.  Super-speed seems to show up a lot in the D.C. universe, although it's an idea that goes back to (at least) Greek mythology.

 

Have the Flash and Green Arrow ever fought in the comics?  (I couldn't find it on Google, but I didn't try that hard.)  Flash has a huge edge in a straight-up fight; my guess is they'll have Arrow use a trick to balance things out (glue arrow, sonic weapon that makes him harder to hit, etc.)  Even so, they'd have to sell why this isn't a very brief fight.  (Though TV Arrow has Felicity and Diggle, so that helps.)

Edited November 22, 2014 by marketdoctor

[Maverick]

 Ok, so I know Raymond is Firestorm and Dibny is Elongated Man, but who are the other names Wells rattled off.  None of them jumped out at me.

[Writing Wrongs]

Here's a list of references for the episode:

http://comicbook.com/2014/11/26/the-flash-easter-eggs-and-dc-comics-references-in-power-outage/

[foreverevolving]

So I came across a post on another website, theorizing Wells is actually T.O Morrow. Had to search the character but.. it really does seems like a likely candidate just as much as the Monitor and New God theories are. but this one actually makes sense, both Wells and Morrow are science men, both have a machine that can show the future..

I know Morrow is a minor villain at best, but...

plus wasn't Wells named after H.G Wells who wrote The Time Machine?

[Kromm]

The non-Professor Zoom theories for Wells didn't make as much sense to me until the most recent episode (where we were presented with exactly what Evil Ed knows about the future).  I mean Reverse Flash wouldn't give a shit about The DC Crisis.  The other Time Traveler suggestions would.

 

That said, Wells seeming to care about the ability to steal the Flash's powers sends the idea BACK to Reverse Flash-land.  Not that Wells has to wind up with them.  It could be Wells transmitting them to Eddie (who's driven nuts by the process, or something like that).

[Maverick]

 So I only know Firestorm from the 80's cartoon.  I know it took two guys to merge and become Firestorm, but I don't remember exactly how it worked?  Was Firestorm one guy's body/personality but he could hear the other guy in his head?   I'm assuming Ronnie on The Flash is so whacked out because he's her a voice in his head and it's going to take STAR Labs to separate the two.  I do wonder now Wells (now 100% more evil) is going to react to helping to create a new hero rather than dealing with a metahuman criminal.  

[Chip]

He's been different people at different times over the years, but yes. Ronnie had Prof. Martin Stein in his head talking to him.

[phoenics]

My guess is that's why Ronnie kept saying he wasn't Ronnie.

[Rai]

I don't doubt Eddie will somehow become a Reverse Flash, but I'm still putting money on Wells to be the more dangerous Reverse Flash -- or Professor Zoom.  Again, his whole shtick has always been that the Flash needs to be the best hero he can be, and usually, a hero grows best by overcoming challenges (ya know, like recovering from the traumatic loss of family).  In the Blackout episode, we got this scenario, yeah? 

Wells gives Gideon another log entry; he now sees he miscalculated! Apparently Barry's heroism is what's going to take him to the next level!

 

And the Flash is a crucial player in the original Crisis on Infinite Earths.  In order to save everything, he needs to be the best hero he can be.

 

Oh yeah, and at least one of the Reverse Flashes is a time-traveler.

 

It's mashing together a lot of concepts from different eras, but I'd lay cash money on this.  Except whoa, would they really do Crisis?

[Actionmage]

What if, to look at the Wells/RF in the same room question, Wells is actually T.O. Morrow and , as I think Mr. Ramos suggested, the eyes are glowy red because it is a robot-- a proto-type Red Tornado? Reddy is at least as fast as Barry, hence the tornado part of his name.

 

It would explain why the eyes were creepy red, it would explain the two bodies in the same room ( for Wells or Eddie), and Professor Morrow isn't as well known to more modern audiences, I'm pretty sure. So TPTB can tweak a bit of background here and there for the TV show and be relatively "safe" from fan backlash.

[phoenics]

I was thinking it was two bodies in the same room - but then I realized that Wells at the end, uses the ring (he pulls it out of his pocket) and puts the suit back onto the mannequin... and it's literally just a suit.

I think Wells is simply able to do something with time... or he moves so fast people don't know he's in two places at once...

[Chicago Redshirt]

Point of order: Red Tornado is nowhere close to the conventional level of Barry's speed, as far as I know. I do not even think Red Tornado can go faster than the speed of sound. 

[Actionmage]

a proto-type Red Tornado? Reddy is at least as fast as Barry, hence the tornado part of his name.

 

Point of order: Red Tornado is nowhere close to the conventional level of Barry's speed, as far as I know. I do not even think Red Tornado can go faster than the speed of sound.

 

Red Tornado isn't as fast as Barry, but who says the robot is Red Tornado now?  It seems that it's probably easier to have a super-fast android than one that houses an air elemental.  (Reddy's history: http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Red_Tornado_(New_Earth) )

 

I was trying to figure out a simpler theory about how our two main choices for Reverse Flash could be in the same room with RF and RF still beat the snot out of Wells convincingly without resorting to partners or moving so fast that he could effectively beat himself up. 

 

According to that linked article, Reddy can go about 350 mph; Barry can go faster currently, but if he pushes himself. My suggestion of a Red Tornado proto-type android was not to diminish Barry's speed or abilities. 

 

After reading that article, it could open up the Flash's ( and the DCU's) world a bit, which is good, generally.