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S05.E07: A Christmas Miracle

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43 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

It makes me wonder how they'll deal with Charles's daughters. Liza had fun babysitting them, but that's a lot different from being their dad's serious girlfriend. It's a completely different relationship. Also, if Liza didn't want to have a baby with Josh, would she want to help raise two tweens? I know there's a huge difference, but she'd still be semi-responsible for two kids.

I think we won't see much of the girls. At this point they're either the world's most balanced kids or in therapy. Mum leaves them, marriage of their parents is more or less over - Mum returns starts crazy talking about rekindling marriage - Mum leaves again (i.e. gets a not so gentle yet well-deserved boot in her derrière by Dad).  This is one of the most grating aspects of the show - those kids are not much more than props, their feelings and emotional well-being hardly ever mentioned. Unlike Caitlin who's in college but still likes to emotionally black-mail her mother into playing family for Christmas.

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20 minutes ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

I absolutely agree that she’s earned the right to be selfish and this is the point in her life at which she should put herself first and pursue a career. I have no issues with that—I applaud it. What I hate is her positioning the con she’s pulling on Empirical as something she’s doing for Caitlin when it has nothing to do with her daughter at all. Defending her right to be selfish is admirable. Positioning her selfishness as selflessness is not. 

Yep, and I feel like there should be no shame in doing this for herself. She lived her life for her family. Her family is pretty much gone, husband left, daughter grown up, so now is her chance to do what she always wanted, only she finds out, it's too late. No one wants her. So she lies about her age. That is a very real story (not the lying, but the SAHM finally ready to go after her dreams only to realize that ship has sailed. I want her to find a man who applauds this, who is happy to see her going after what she's always wanted. I don't want her with a guy who needs her to be the selfless mom still doing everything for her child. I feel like they took away a huge part of her story to make her an acceptable mate for Charles who apparently wants a mommy for his kids.

Career wise she has more in common with Josh. They are both establishing themselves in their careers. They are living their dreams in a way, following their passions. With Charles she'll end up back where she was, being a wife and mother. I like what Josh brings out in her more than what Charles brings out in her. Josh is more of a fresh start IMO. Charles is more of the same in a prettier package.

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2 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

Yeah. I feel like Caitlin being the reason is a bit of a retcon. I remember it as her needing money, needing to work and finally being at a point in her life where she could do the job she'd always dreamed of. So she tries, and can't because of her age. So she lies about her age to get into the bottom rung of her dream career. Nothing at all wrong with that (other than the illegality and lying lol, but that part doesn't change regardless of her reason for doing it).

I don't think it's a retcon. If my memory serves me right, wasn't it in one of the first few episodes of the first season where Diana lent Liza the money because Caitlin needed it for school?! Liza told Diana it was under a guise of an important relative to her, needing the money badly, and she doesn't have enough to give to that relative. So while publishing may be Liza's dream job, I think earning money for Caitlin is still a major motivating factor for her. The two factors (pursuing a dream late and working to provide for a loved one) don't have to be mutually exclusive.

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2 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I think we won't see much of the girls. At this point they're either the world's most balanced kids or in therapy. Mum leaves them, marriage of their parents is more or less over - Mum returns starts crazy talking about rekindling marriage - Mum leaves again (i.e. gets a not so gentle yet well-deserved boot in her derrière by Dad).  This is one of the most grating aspects of the show - those kids are not much more than props, their feelings and emotional well-being hardly ever mentioned. Unlike Caitlin who's in college but still likes to emotionally black-mail her mother into playing family for Christmas.

She might ask for joint custody. If the film version of her book happens, she might live in CA for a while and take them with her  She is not going to want to be anywhere near Charles in all of his euphoric glory as a result of dating Liza. 

44 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

I don't think it's a retcon. If my memory serves me right, wasn't it in one of the first few episodes of the first season where Diana lent Liza the money because Caitlin needed it for school?! Liza told Diana it was under a guise of an important relative to her, needing the money badly, and she doesn't have enough to give to that relative. So while publishing may be Liza's dream job, I think earning money for Caitlin is still a major motivating factor for her. The two factors (pursuing a dream late and working to provide for a loved one) don't have to be mutually exclusive.

David, the ex, is useless. I can't imagine he is helping much with college tuition or rent or food. She went back to her career because she had to. Liza probably always thought she would just jump back in but was shocked to learn that was not going to happen. She had her eggs in that one basket. So, to make it work, she did what she did.

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3 hours ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

 

 

Jobs that SAHMs take on when their kids grow up. Usually retail or office work. They’re mostly staffed by mothers with older kids and/or who are going through a divorce, and can’t get the jobs that match their age and education because of the time they sacrificed to raise their kids. 

Wow, who wouldn't want a job like that. I am glad to read this forum, and learn that just because I've had a child at some point, I should never expect to have a rewarding job in a field I actually want to pursue. Also, that once I have lived in NJ, I can never leave? Not sure why anyone would post that a human being, male or female, needs to be stagnant that way. 

My point would be that a character can have multiple motivations. Liza wanted this job, she wanted to work in book publishing and get a chance to do over the career she left when she had Caitlin. And that's fine enough motivation. But she also had to pay for Caitlin's tuition, and at one point was selling her panties online because she is broke and her husband wasn't paying, right? So Caitlin is another plot point, and an all new concept to Charles.

Edited by Heathrowe · Reason: elucidation
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On 7/25/2018 at 12:29 PM, HunterHunted said:

I would laugh forever and ever if Liza and Charles had just awful awful sex. Liza's handsome, rich, big dicked prince was just awful in bed, but we know he's not because page 58. Ugh.

I have a few things to say about this episode when I have the time, but for now I just had to quote this because it is epic, and I feel the same way LOL.

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9 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I think it's sad that the show felt the need to make Charles' acceptance based on Liza doing this for her kid. Like, the felt Charles needed that mommy angle or wouldn't be willing to accept that Liza had to lie to have a chance at her dream. IDK, just makes me like him even less, which is barely possible at this point. Other than looks and money I see nothing appealing about Charles. He is neither that hot nor that rich to make up for his total lack of personality, professionalism or talent as a businessman. Hey, maybe we'll find out he has a dream of being a circus clown and seeing Liza go after her dream will inspire him to go after his. haha. Either way, I will never root for them as a couple so long as he is running the company she works for no matter how much chemistry they manage to muster.

OMG This!  I just want Liza to say to Charles point blank "I know you're not in charge of hiring, but if I had come to you as a 42-year old divorcee and asked for an entry-level job, would you have given it to me?" and dared him to lie to her face that he would have.

Also, I think it's funny how so many people are so against Kelsey dating Zane, when he's at least her equal at work, but it doesn't seem to bother anyone that Charles is Liza's boss's boss (least of all Charles).  They even brought in Bob as Empirical's legal counsel in that one episode who specifically said that it's forbidden in the company for management to date a subordinate.  Charles owns the company, so he's not going to be the one to lose his job...but Charles is "hot" (to some), so I guess it's ok.

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59 minutes ago, Nessie said:

Also, I think it's funny how so many people are so against Kelsey dating Zane, when he's at least her equal at work, but it doesn't seem to bother anyone that Charles is Liza's boss's boss (least of all Charles).  They even brought in Bob as Empirical's legal counsel in that one episode who specifically said that it's forbidden in the company for management to date a subordinate.  Charles owns the company, so he's not going to be the one to lose his job...but Charles is "hot" (to some), so I guess it's ok.


This. I don't like Zane and I'm tired of Kelsey hooking up with every guy she works with, but do they even work for the same part of the company? Isn't he an Empirical editor and she heads up Millennial? Workplace romances happen, this one isn't remarkable or objectionable. 

Charles and Liza is a whole different level and one I've never been comfortable with. She's his subordinate and the first time he made a move on her he thought she was 20 years younger than him and did it anyway. And then when he found out she was nearly his age, his reaction was to interfere with her ability to do her job. The whole thing skeeves me out - I'm still pretty sure they're end-game but I'm not happy about it. 

 

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On 7/24/2018 at 10:51 PM, voiceover said:

*rushes into thread shrieking*

They kissed!!!!!!!!!!!!

I may be the last surviving member of HMS CharlesLiza.  I don't care.  I've been grinding my way through the David Fincher Festival, what passes for current empowerment programming (UnReal/GirlfriendsGuide/Dietland), and goddamnit!  I needed some smooshy Hallmark Channel snow-covered swooning.

And I'm just as happy for Diana.  A man who shows up with a Christmas tree is a good man.

eta: Yikes!  Sorry, @HunterHunted.  Agree to disagree on the tree ish.  Douglas Fir? Blue Spruce? Colored lights? that's a panty-dropper, if ever was one.

No you're not, I'm still in that tugboat with you! Lol, I enjoyed the episode mainly for the Liza/Charles of it all and next week's promo....holy hell. I guess it'll be you, me and the 2 other Liza/Charles shippers left enjoying the long awaited climax to their fun and frothy romance. All I can say is: AT LAST! 

Also I agree with the poster who mentioned that Charles saw Liza in her element with her friends and her daughter and that's what helped to change his mind. Not just the mamabear aspect but I think that's got a lot of merit as well cause as a parent, I'm sure he understands doing whatever it takes to take care of your kid (I know Liza isn't only doing what she's doing for Caitlin but she's a big part of it....at least in Liza's mind). 

And I think that it also clicked for Charles that he would've been into Liza if they did happen to meet at a mutual friend's holiday party. Like no matter what he would've fallen for this woman. That's what I got from him when he was looking on at her and Caitlin do their best Sound of Music number lol. 

And finally on the Liza and Charles front, call me a cheeseball but I liked the nod to Bridget Jones' Diary at the end there. (or the blatant rip off, however you want to characterize it..) I mean, this show at it's core is a tropey rom com; if this was the early 00s Liza would've probably been played by someone like Renee Zellwegger and Colin Firth would've of course played Charles in a big screen rom com of the same name and similar premise maybe. So the show paying homage to that genre didn't matter to me but to each their own!

With regards to the rest of the episode, I looooooove Diana and Enzo. Its about time Diana had a good solid guy in her life who makes her happy. Who is also hot as hell I might add! 

 

I don't know really what's going on with Kelsey, Zane or that other guy at the moment. I mean I think this might end up with her choosing neither but since the actor who plays Zane is a series regular, he'll always be around as an option for her. So I don't think getting invested in the other guy makes sense for us as an audience. 

 

And I know I'm going to hell for this but Josh and Caitlin had really weird funky chemistry that would've worked for me in another life. But ultimately, I agree that the show needs to put Josh on some kind of path that's not tied up with Liza. He's not doing much right now other than lamenting over his life choices and pining for her. I kinda wish the show would've put more effort into a real legit love interest for him.

Cause between flirting with the idea of him and Kelsey last year (which I wasn't opposed to *dodges tomatoes*) and then that horribly written arc with the Irish girl whose name escapes me at the moment cause she was so flat and forgettable I can't remember a single thing he did last season.....And I love Nico. I think he could do a lot more if he had better material. 

 

Other than that I thought the episode was alright. But I look forward to next week! 

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2 hours ago, MissEwa said:

Charles and Liza is a whole different level and one I've never been comfortable with. She's his subordinate and the first time he made a move on her he thought she was 20 years younger than him and did it anyway. And then when he found out she was nearly his age, his reaction was to interfere with her ability to do her job. The whole thing skeeves me out - I'm still pretty sure they're end-game but I'm not happy about it. 
 

In the "real world" you're right, of course.  We would all be skeeved out thinking that Charles was abusing his age and position to take advantage of some "sweet young thing".  But this show has always had an air of romance novel in it for me.  Like we're supposed to suspend that rational part of our brains because it's so wrong but oh-so right.  Plus knowing that Liza is really 40-something supposedly makes it OK, so we can "forgive" Charles for his lapse of good sense and morals.  Because it's oh-so romantic, right?  Right??  I think that's what the show wants us to do.  I don't know, maybe it would be easier to get there if written differently, but as-is it's at best a little uncomfortable for me.  Like we forgave Ilsa Lund in "Casablanca" for having her tragic romance in Paris with Rick even though she was married, because at the time she thought her husband was dead.  I think perhaps "Younger" might have been written better if Charles discovered Liza's secret unbenkownst to her before he started making any moves on her.  I think that would have come off as far more romantic, and would have sat better with those of us that couldn't completely approve of Charles's behavior.

That said, it didn't really come across that well, but I think some of the reason Charles and Liza never went anywhere until Charles found out her real age is because he was supposed to be struggling with her age.  If he didn't think she was too young for him they would have happened a long time ago and the show would not have dragged on teasing the audience with furtive glances and kisses for so long.  I can't decide if this was because Peter Herman himself couldn't make his internal struggle more obvious to the audience, or because of the way the script was written, or both.  There probably should have been some more open acknowledgement on his part to Liza that he didn't feel right about having a relationship with a subordinate that was so much younger than him.  Then Liza would have had an internal struggle about whether she should reveal her true age to him and quit her job.  I think the show was trying to go there when Liza left and went back to a mall job in New Jersey, but she ended up just coming back and things basically went back to the way they were and got stuck there until now.

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So exactly what I feared would happen DID happen  - Charles says "I don't care anymore" and Liza falls into his arms. Blah. They did have some nice moments together in this episode, but he still owes her an apology. I need a real conversation between them where they both admit their mistakes.

Josh deserves better than what the writers are doing to him. I know this season is focusing on Liza and Charles, but how about some fun scenes of the whole gang hanging out together? It feels like we haven't had one of those in a while. 

Josh and Caitlin would be a horrible idea, please writers, no!

Diana and Enzo are a delight together. I love how he stands up to her in his own charming way.

Did anyone else get a creepy vibe from that art couple, like maybe there was a sexual expectation to that whole deal? Otherwise what, they just expected Maggie to hang out with them, and not create art or sell to anyone else?

Kelsey, Kelsey, Kelsey...girl, I get it - you've got hot guys coming at you from all sides, and workplace romances are practically unavoidable. But now you've got to deal with the inevitable fallout...good luck with that. But to be fair, if those two have serious designs on you, then they should step up and say so, and not play jealous games.

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1 hour ago, stormborn said:

No you're not, I'm still in that tugboat with you! Lol, I enjoyed the episode mainly for the Liza/Charles of it all and next week's promo....holy hell. I guess it'll be you, me and the 2 other Liza/Charles shippers left enjoying the long awaited climax to their fun and frothy romance. All I can say is: AT LAST! 

Ship Ahoy Mateys! Although I think I'm only shipping Liza and Charles because I can't stand Josh and the lack of direction with his story anymore.

Regarding the preview - they got me with Charles' beard because in the season 5 preview I was convinced that the bearded guy she was kissing in the stairwell (?) was actually someone else. Well played editors, well played! But I'm worried that the glimpse we got of Pauline means the Liza/Charles romance may be shortlived.

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Across the board, this was one of my favorite episodes the series—it was heart warming and mostly everyone was portrayed very humanistically. I’m also a sucker for Christmas in July. 

I think Liza and Charles are really good for each other so I was very happy with how that happened—they went for a cheesy, romcom type of plot and it worked for me. Charles had a change of heart the moment he saw her with her daughter, no differently than Josh and Kelsey, and as a parent himself I imagined it resonated more. Hoping for more a conversation next week about the lie and his reaction, although I think the scene at the coffee counter was a nice preview of other things to come.

There is absolutely issue to be taken with their positions, and I do believe that’ll be address since they’ve been hinting at it all season, but rarely do I see anyone say that it was creepy for Liza to be into a 26-year old who didn’t even know he was dating a 40yo for a period of time or cite it as one of the reasons they shouldn’t get back together, so I’m not sure what to make of that arguement. Josh was objectified significantly more early on. 

Then again, I don’t believe it was shown to ever really be about her age. By calling herself 26, she didn’t magically make herself more attractive, and I’m not sure the plaid diapers she wore among other things were that alluring either. And besides her having to lower her compentancy about things like marriage, she didn’t give off 20somethings energy in the conversations they had. She could barely pull it off in the conference room. 

Edited by chybee23
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17 hours ago, Nessie said:

it doesn't seem to bother anyone that Charles is Liza's boss's boss (least of all Charles)

It bothers a lot of us and has been extensively discussed. (Just not lately.) It still bothers me, but at least there's no large age difference to add to the inappropriateness. Now it's straight employee-boss.

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16 hours ago, chybee23 said:

There is absolutely issue to be taken with their positions, and I do believe that’ll be address since they’ve been hinting at it all season, but rarely do I see anyone say that it was creepy for Liza to be into a 26-year old who didn’t even know he was dating a 40yo for a period of time or cite it as one of the reasons they shouldn’t get back together, so I’m not sure what to make of that arguement. Josh was objectified significantly more early on. 

Then again, I don’t believe it was shown to ever really be about her age. By calling herself 26, she didn’t magically make herself more attractive, and I’m not sure the plaid diapers she wore among other things were that alluring either. 

For me the difference is that there was much less of a power imbalance between Liza and Josh. She wasn't his boss. She was lying about her age - which, agreed, not great, but if it wasn't about her age then it's no different to her lying about her job/hometown etc. which people do for whatever reasons they have - and when he found out he broke up with her, only later deciding he didn't care.

YMMV on whether the age difference itself is creepy - imo it's not until it's coupled with the huge power imblance of Charles being her boss. 

I'm also slightly skeeved out by the fact that his declaration of love was a - relatively boring - card coupled with a cheque for what we can assume was a large sum of money. Like... nice reminder that you *are* her boss and have a whole lot of power over her financial wellbeing? But again, YMMV and I know I'm being a spoilsport. 

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Diana was very orange in this episode, and it was distracting. 

Other than that, I really liked it.  :) 

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On 27.7.2018 at 4:33 AM, Nessie said:

Also, I think it's funny how so many people are so against Kelsey dating Zane, when he's at least her equal at work, but it doesn't seem to bother anyone that Charles is Liza's boss's boss (least of all Charles).  They even brought in Bob as Empirical's legal counsel in that one episode who specifically said that it's forbidden in the company for management to date a subordinate.  Charles owns the company, so he's not going to be the one to lose his job...but Charles is "hot" (to some), so I guess it's ok.

This! It is unethical and improper in many respects, but I am too surprised how many of Liza/Charles fans don't want to see it.      

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7 hours ago, MissEwa said:

I'm also slightly skeeved out by the fact that his declaration of love was a - relatively boring - card coupled with a cheque for what we can assume was a large sum of money. Like... nice reminder that you *are* her boss and have a whole lot of power over her financial wellbeing? But again, YMMV and I know I'm being a spoilsport. 

Was that a declaration of love? I thought the card said he appreciated the work she did for Empirical and she was a valued employee. (Admittedly, my TV doesn't show that stuff very clearly even when I pause my DVR.) Diana gave Liza her bonus before the big kiss at the end, so I didn't see it in that particular context.

I agree with the larger point, however, about Charles having a whole lot of power over her financial wellbeing. (And I want to clarify that the supposed age difference bothered me only coupled with the power differential, not in general. I'm always disappointed when men go for the very young women, but if they want to be with women who have no idea what life was before smartphones, whatever.)

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8 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Was that a declaration of love? I thought the card said he appreciated the work she did for Empirical and she was a valued employee.

I didn't think so but I have seen it read that way (as in it being a nod to the old 'man uses writing to express feelings he can't say' trope) more than once on Twitter - mostly in a gushy 'it was so romantic' tone. Hard to say if that was intentional on the part of the show or not. 

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I have watched this show since the beginning and admittedly I don't have the memory capacity a lot of you do in remembering story details (jealous!), but there is one thing that I have been wondering about this season in particular: With Liza doing a fabulous editing job with the poodle book, and Marriage Vacation, combined with her idea for the Reese Witherspoon movie/rights deal, does anyone else wonder if Kelsey is really even that good at her job? I realize Kelsey is ambitious and the head of Millennial and she gets all the praise and glory publicly for running a successful imprint (I know Liza shys away from the attention), but with her questionable dating choices - which some could have been potentially bad for the company - what would happen if Liza wasn't there?

I'm NOT saying Liza is the saving grace, but it does seem that her skills and creativity are carrying Millennial.

I do like Kelsey but I think she either needs a slap upside the head or an epiphany to strike her.

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3 hours ago, Beantown Gal said:

I have watched this show since the beginning and admittedly I don't have the memory capacity a lot of you do in remembering story details (jealous!), but there is one thing that I have been wondering about this season in particular: With Liza doing a fabulous editing job with the poodle book, and Marriage Vacation, combined with her idea for the Reese Witherspoon movie/rights deal, does anyone else wonder if Kelsey is really even that good at her job? I realize Kelsey is ambitious and the head of Millennial and she gets all the praise and glory publicly for running a successful imprint (I know Liza shys away from the attention), but with her questionable dating choices - which some could have been potentially bad for the company - what would happen if Liza wasn't there?

I'm NOT saying Liza is the saving grace, but it does seem that her skills and creativity are carrying Millennial.

I do like Kelsey but I think she either needs a slap upside the head or an epiphany to strike her.

Kelsey is an editor and we've seen her edit the English translation of Anton Bjornberg's book, she edited Colin's book and caused a bidding war over it by making much much better, and she's editing Jake's book. She also helped to poach the author who was writing Tom Clancy/Robert Ludlum-esque books and encouraged him to add a female protagonist. So she's good at her job, but she has terrible personal and professional boundaries.

Edited by HunterHunted
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4 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Kelsey is an editor and we've seen her edit the English translation of Anton Bjornberg's book, she edited Colin's book and caused a bidding war over it by making much much better, and she's editing Jake's book. She also helped to poach the author who was writing Tom Clancy/Robert Ludlum-esque books and encouraged him to add a female protagonist. So she's good at her job, but she has terrible personal and professional boundaries.

I think Kelsey’s good at actually editing, but terrible at the other things that would make her a good head of an imprint. She’s lost several authors with her stupid behavior, doesn’t make good connections at networking events, and always needs an eleventh hour Hail Mary not to run Millennial into the ground. 

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Wasn't it just a month or two ago that Charles couldn't make payroll? What's he doing giving out bonuses that cause a lowly assistant to be gobsmacked by?

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13 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Kelsey is an editor and we've seen her edit the English translation of Anton Bjornberg's book, she edited Colin's book and caused a bidding war over it by making much much better, and she's editing Jake's book. She also helped to poach the author who was writing Tom Clancy/Robert Ludlum-esque books and encouraged him to add a female protagonist. So she's good at her job, but she has terrible personal and professional boundaries.

Thank you HunterHunted for the reminder, I had temporarily forgotten about those facts and as @dubbel zout commented, I apparently was only seeing the terrible dating choices the writers want us to see/focus on.

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9 hours ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

I think Kelsey’s good at actually editing, but terrible at the other things that would make her a good head of an imprint. She’s lost several authors with her stupid behavior, doesn’t make good connections at networking events, and always needs an eleventh hour Hail Mary not to run Millennial into the ground. 

Yes, this is what I was attempting to say. Thank you for so eloquently stating what I failed to. :)

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What kind of hours do these people work at Empirical? Zane texted Kelsey while she was still in bed with Jake and it was already 10:08am. She replied saying she couldn't have breakfast with him but that she would see him at the office. So she cruised in at 11am just in time for a meeting before lunch?

On a shallow note, Jason Ralph is always so angst ridden on The Magicians so it's been nice seeing him smiling and happy with Kelsey here.

Kelsey, on the other hand, is an idiot. She seriously thought she could attend a social event with both Jake and Zane and that neither of them would figure out she's been secretly banging both of them? I am not going to defend Kelsey, but I will say that it didn't seem to be asking a lot for Zane not to kiss her at a work function. Dude, be professional!

Also unprofessional: Zane being petty about being taken off Jake's book. Considering that he stole LL Moore from Kelsey, he's really not in any position to judge someone for being ambitious (and that's assuming that she even had anything to do with Jake taking Zane off his book, which we know isn't the case).

But I will say that since neither Zane nor Jake has said anything about wanting to date Kelsey exclusively, it's a bit immature for either of them to get so jealous that she's seeing other people, especially since in both cases it seems more a matter of mixing business with pleasure than pursuing a serious relationship. I mean, let's be honest. They work together and they have sex and they're not public about it. I'm not saying either of them should be proposing marriage at this point, but they don't seem to be doing other couple/relationship things like including them in their social activities with their friends so both of these relationships seems to be in the coworkers with benefits category for now which means they aren't really in a position to get possessive or jealous.

Nitpick: Kelsey said that Liza has been gaslighting the entire company since she started working there but there is a major difference between lying and gaslighting.

I can't believe it took five seasons to finally get Sutton to sing on the show! And of course seeing Liza sing The Lonely Goatherd while dancing like a goofball was enough to soften Charles towards her and let go of his anger.

I love Enzo because he keeps surprising Diana, both with his actions and her reactions to them. She seems to have softened her look since they started dating again. It was really noticeable in the scene where she gave Liza her Christmas present. I think it's a combination of her hair, her makeup, and her wardrobe (all of which were much more matronly, especially in the earlier seasons). I totally laughed when Liza saw that her gift was a statement necklace.

Part of me wishes that Maggie had at least waited until she'd gone on a fabulous Caribbean vacation before dumping that couple.

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On 8/1/2018 at 8:16 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I can't believe it took five seasons to finally get Sutton to sing on the show! And of course seeing Liza sing The Lonely Goatherd while dancing like a goofball was enough to soften Charles towards her and let go of his anger.

I love Enzo because he keeps surprising Diana, both with his actions and her reactions to them. She seems to have softened her look since they started dating again. It was really noticeable in the scene where she gave Liza her Christmas present. I think it's a combination of her hair, her makeup, and her wardrobe (all of which were much more matronly, especially in the earlier seasons). I totally laughed when Liza saw that her gift was a statement necklace.

Part of me wishes that Maggie had at least waited until she'd gone on a fabulous Caribbean vacation before dumping that couple.

Sutton Foster has a lovely voice, and so does Tessa Albertson (Caitlin). I loved that scene, embarassingly funny.

I agree, it does seem like Diana's look has softened - perhaps it's in her mannerisms as well as outward appearance? And I hope we see Liza find a way to incorporate that necklace into her wardrobe sometime in the future.

It would've been nice for Maggie to get a vacation, but I think it would've been awkward and uncomfortable to go anywhere and unplug with that couple!

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On 7/27/2018 at 2:29 AM, stormborn said:

And I know I'm going to hell for this but Josh and Caitlin had really weird funky chemistry that would've worked for me in another life.

Totally agree! I generally dislike the actress who plays Caitlin but really like her with Josh. Probably because Nico would have chemistry with a stick.

Was that Miriam Shor singing Lonely Goatherd when Charles heard it in the cab? 

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I'm totally confused about how much time has passed. Aren't you supposed to have the whole book written before you publish an excerpt? Last I remember, Jake only wrote one chapter.

Love/hate Liza's Christmas lights necklace.

I kind of hate Kaitlyn and David for putting Liza in that position. I get that Kaitlyn wanted a family Christmas. But she's also an adult and her lack of compassion for her mother after her parents' terrible divorce is not a good look.

What!?! I mean, I guess the holiday party wasn't the time to reveal that Liza's been lying about her age but I feel like both Charles and Liza lying about knowing each other... especially to the company's lawyer is just asking for trouble.

"Who died and made you Karl Lagerfeld?" is a weird joke from here in the future when he's actually dead.

They have succeeded in making the Jake/Kelsey/Zane love triangle even more boring to me than the will they/won't they between Liza and Charles.

The necklace Diana gave Liza was WILD. I feel like I'm just watching this show for the fashion sometimes.

That plotline was so underdeveloped it made no sense. Why did Maggie walk away from that couple who bought all her art? Sure, some rich people loan out art to museums or donate it but others do keep it in private collections or as investments betting that the value will go up. But even though they wanted her to go on an artist's retreat, we've seen that she can make her pieces relatively quickly. So there was nothing stopping her from enjoying having wealthy patrons and continuing to make more art that could be displayed. Unless I missed something where she signed over all art she makes in the future. 

Charles seeing Liza at the end was very rom-com but not satisfying at all. All things considered, him "not caring anymore" was a very abrupt shift. Did he just need to throw a tantrum until he burned himself out. Oh, well. I'm interested to see where they go from here. 

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7 hours ago, aradia22 said:

That plotline was so underdeveloped it made no sense. Why did Maggie walk away from that couple who bought all her art? Sure, some rich people loan out art to museums or donate it but others do keep it in private collections or as investments betting that the value will go up. But even though they wanted her to go on an artist's retreat, we've seen that she can make her pieces relatively quickly. So there was nothing stopping her from enjoying having wealthy patrons and continuing to make more art that could be displayed. Unless I missed something where she signed over all art she makes in the future.

The story was about the couple not only buying her art, but basically buying her - with the bracelets fittingly looking like handcuffs.

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The story was about the couple not only buying her art, but basically buying her - with the bracelets fittingly looking like handcuffs.

But was it? None of it was made explicit to the point that it didn't seem like Maggie was just making a statement for no reason. That's bad writing. 

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On 4/18/2019 at 11:30 PM, aradia22 said:

The necklace Diana gave Liza was WILD. I feel like I'm just watching this show for the fashion sometimes.

I so wish the fashion were better on this show. It seems like it should be with them living in NYC, going to glamorous events and being well connected. It's not that the fashion is bad, it just seems ho hum to me. No outfits or items really stand out to me to where I go "Oh that's so cute." or "Oh, I've gotta have that."

I loved the fashion of The Carrie Diaries. Even though it was supposed to take place in the 80s they still did a nice job of being stylish and somewhat retro.

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