S02.E13: The Word

[Clanstarling]

7 hours ago, alexvillage said:

Maybe I can't explain well. I understand that an actor can't sound like another person when playing different characters but there are some "tics" that they could avoid to give each character a more distinct personality. BW has a very distinct way of saying things, the rhythm and emphasis of sentences, and I think it is does not work in his favor, as an actor (or at least for my very  unimportant opinion). I don't think many actors can actually play characters that make you forget they played other ones before, and that's one reason why I am not very easily wrapped in the award stuff. I am extremely critical of most. 

The best I can explain is by using Orphan Black as an example. Tatiana Maslany played all those characters and I was so caught in the episodes, I'd often forget that it was only one actor. To me, she was nearly perfect in how she gave each one of them such distinct personalities. There are other actors that can do that as they work in different shows but not many.

Okay, I get that. and I agree Tatiana Maslany is incredible. I haven't seen Bradley in too many things, but I've always enjoyed him, so that makes a difference for me. All actors have different ranges, and while I think Bradley is good, there's no doubt that Tatiana is better by far, as are other actors.

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

It reminded me of a Chihuahua and a Yorkie in a stand off.  Neither have the acting chops or physical presence needed for those roles to matter. 

I was so glad I hadn't taken a sip of water when I read that description.

[FierceCritter]

On 7/11/2018 at 4:40 AM, hiccup said:

I think it's a show better suited to a shorter run.
 

This X10.

[LeGrandElephant]

THIS is when/how Serena goes about this? What was she doing when this all started? Why did she expect Fred to save her when she knows he hates her? Why didn’t the wives do something more clever? 

 

I expected Josh to say “we’re not doing that” but I didn’t think he’d add the “with you” with such contempt. I WANT to believe he’s part of the resistance and wants to protect Emily, but instead he treats her with contempt and acts like he doesn’t want to have sec with her because she’s disgusting, not because he feels bad about the whole rape thing. 

 

I wish Emily would do some better-planned violence. That’s what I thought when she stole the car and ran over the guard, too. I would have thought (back then, at least) that a former professor who was apart of MayDay would have planned things out better. Now she’s so much more traumatized, its not surprising. 

 

The show is so darkly lit that I literally can’t tell if they cut off Serena’s finger or hand. I assume it will become obvious in a subsequent scene. Ok, a finger, to fit with Josh’s line last episode. But why can’t she keep wearing her wedding ring with just her pinky finger gone? 

 

Surprised Serena accepted June’s comfort instead of taking out her rage on her like usual. 

 

I thought there had been mention of how the Handmaids were kept away from anything they could us to kill themselves. But they can get knives from the kitchen? I guess the rules aren’t followed in Josh’s house, but it brings up the question of whether or not Offred could get a knife from Rita’s kitchen. 

 

June can’t control her rage anymore - what happened to first season June? She should take him up on the offer to stay. She has a better chance of escape near Nick and the baby, with the devil she knows... can’t believe Fred kept offering after she said go fuck yourself. 

 

Bradley Whitford is playing such a bizarre character, I have no idea what to make of him. Among other things, how could a guy like this have survived this far in Gilead? 

 

Holy crap June moves SO SLOW when time is of the essence. 

 

That map - two different pink parts not connected. So it can’t just be states or divisions of Gilead. I hope the pink parts are parts in active rebellion or something!

 

Did Offred seriously take the time to write that on the wall? She would be the worst spy. Not to mention, besides the time it took, what if something went wrong and she had to go back there and pretend nothing was going on? In a situation like this being practical matters more than making a point! Maybe they just wanted to sell T-shirt’s with that slogan in that font. 

 

Nick, nows your chance to finally do something! Kill Fred and make it look like an accident! Say the resistance fighters who stole the handmaid did it!

 

I guess June had to go through that conversation with Serena otherwise she would have raised the alarm? Would have preferred if the Martha hiding nearby had jumped down and knocked her out, though. I guess the whole purpose of Eden was so that Serena would be willing to let June and the baby go. 

 

I kept thinking June should take off her white cap that practically glows in the dark when hiding from searchlights. I guess they didn’t have time to get black cloth to wrap her and the baby in. The Martha’s seem to wear a lot of layers, couldn’t they give her some extra dark grey-green cloth?

 

Don’t fold a Polaroid! 

 

Ok, so Josh IS trying to help the handmaids escape. But then why couldn’t he have been nicer to Emily? If he had told her he was on her side, she probably wouldn’t have freaked and attacked Aunt Lydia (at least not in an unplanned way). 

 

June needs to stop standing around thinking when the action is happening. It’s really getting old. 

 

Wtf are you telling me June isn’t leaving? She’s going back for Hannah when she has no power and no chance of success? How stupid and pointless. Didn’t she already go through the soul searching of leaving without Hannah in the almost escape in the airplane? She would have a much better chance if she made it to Canada and then hired some dudes to infiltrate and rescue Hannah based on her detailed info of the situation. She is just so impractical when it matters. Who cares what name the baby has next to YOU GOING ON A SUICIDE MISSION DOOMED TO FAILURE as you abandon it. 

 

I wonder if Emily isn’t going to Canada. I guess they have a year to decide. Maybe she’s going to the pink region on the map.

On 7/11/2018 at 1:10 AM, AnswersWanted said:

Her hopped up on drugs wasn’t exactly moving either.

I missed this, what drugs?

[NoSpam]

2 minutes ago, LeGrandElephant said:

But why can’t she keep wearing her wedding ring with just her pinky finger gone? 

 

 

it brings up the question of whether or not Offred could get a knife from Rita’s kitchen. 

She would have a much better chance if she made it to Canada and then hired some dudes to infiltrate and rescue Hannah based on her detailed info of the situation. She is just so impractical when it matters. Who cares what name the baby has next to YOU GOING ON A SUICIDE MISSION DOOMED TO FAILURE as you abandon it. 

 

 

There would be a lot of swelling of the whole hand. Her ring wouldn't have fit.

Offered definitely could have gotten a knife in the kitchen. She's been there alone at least a dozen times that we've seen.

Totally agree with your last paragraph. June is incompetent, not a bad ass spy. She should have made sure Nicholly was safe, then gone to the CIA.

[LeGrandElephant]

On 7/11/2018 at 3:45 AM, Umbelina said:

I said their prices are too high for what they are offering, and to put up with commercials on top of that.

Wait I don’t have commercials on Hulu. 

[Umbelina]

30 minutes ago, NoSpam said:

There would be a lot of swelling of the whole hand. Her ring wouldn't have fit.

Offered definitely could have gotten a knife in the kitchen. She's been there alone at least a dozen times that we've seen.

Totally agree with your last paragraph. June is incompetent, not a bad ass spy. She should have made sure Nicholly was safe, then gone to the CIA.

The CIA has obviously done nothing, and can do nothing, for Gilead.

Also, if you look at your hand, my ring would hit exactly where they chopped off her little finger when the two fingers touched.

23 minutes ago, LeGrandElephant said:

Wait I don’t have commercials on Hulu. 

WHAT?  I get them about 5 times a show, sometimes 3 commercials each time, more this year than last too, since it was a hit last year.  Do you pay the premium for "commercial free?"

Edited July 12, 2018 by Umbelina

[NoSpam]

8 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

The CIA has obviously done nothing, and can do nothing, for Gilead.

Also, if you look at your hand, my ring would hit exactly where they chopped off her little finger when the two fingers touched.

 

Amputation causes swelling far and wide, not just in the immediate cut.

 

No one knows what the CIA could do. They might be helping Mayday. Off Glen 2.0 didn't cook up that compact little grenade in a Martha's kitchen.

[Umbelina]

I just thought of something else.

June didn't know about the escape, but MAYDAY or the Martha's did.  I bet that car has supplies for the baby already inside.  Or, at least, it's likely.  They knew a baby would be on board.

4 minutes ago, NoSpam said:

Amputation causes swelling far and wide, not just in the immediate cut.

 

No one knows what the CIA could do. They might be helping Mayday. Off Glen 2.0 didn't cook up that compact little grenade in a Martha's kitchen.

The rebels probably have access to grenades, after all, they are at war.  Those fighting them are guardians, and one could have easily brought grenades back, and returned to fight Gilead from the front line.  That's far more likely than a severely weakened CIA helping out.

Although the CIA probably at least had a few agents overseas, and one or two in Alaska or Hawaii when it all went down.  They still would have a crippled support system.  Langley is gone, but they might have friends in other countries that are helping them.

I'd bet on Mayday supplying that grenade though.  There is a healthy black market and presumably military supplies in cache's around Gilead. 

Edited July 13, 2018 by Umbelina

[AnswersWanted]

1 hour ago, LeGrandElephant said:

I missed this, what drugs?

 

Serena was given, what I would assure are, strong pain meds after they removed her finger. They were in the bag Fred gave to June when they got home. She was still under the effects of heavy sedation as well after the “surgery”. 

[NoSpam]

4 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I forgot to mention something, and I don't think anyone else has either, I've read all the threads.

That confrontation between Nick and Fred?  Almost made me laugh, then I mostly felt pity.  Honestly, the two weakest performers on the show, both of whom should have stand out characters?  Nose to nose like that? 

It reminded me of a Chihuahua and a Yorkie in a stand off.  Neither have the acting chops or physical presence needed for those roles to matter. 

Every time I see Joseph Fiennes in this series, I think, "why oh why can't this be Ralph?"

[LeGrandElephant]

58 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

WHAT?  I get them about 5 times a show, sometimes 3 commercials each time, more this year than last too, since it was a hit last year.  Do you pay the premium for "commercial free?"

Yes, apparently I am. From your description of the number of commercials, I think it’s worth it. 

[Sara2009]

2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Okay, I get that. and I agree Tatiana Maslany is incredible. I haven't seen Bradley in too many things, but I've always enjoyed him, so that makes a difference for me. All actors have different ranges, and while I think Bradley is good, there's no doubt that Tatiana is better by far, as are other actors.

I was so glad I hadn't taken a sip of water when I read that description.

I’m not disagreeing , but I also think it’s probably hard to compare the two roles.

[Umbelina]

25 minutes ago, NoSpam said:

Every time I see Joseph Fiennes in this series, I think, "why oh why can't this be Ralph?"

Just imagine those roles with stronger actors!

I mean, Nick should be the breakaway star of this thing!  His character has it all.  He's a spy.  He's in the Resistance, a double agent!  He's the romantic lead.  He's forced to marry a 15 year old and have sex with her or go to the gallows as a gender traitor.  He's a new father!

Yet, the role just lies there.

Moss is 5'3" and she looks like she could take either one of those men down without mussing her hair.

Imagine (since I've been watching The Americans, True Blood, Breaking Bad, and Better Call Saul DVDs I'll just choose from those shows.)

Noah Emmerich, Alexander Skarsgard, Micheal McKean, Dylan Baker, or Patrick Fabian as Fred?

Kevin Alejandro, Michael Mando, or Aaron Paul as Nick?  or hell, any number of young actors capable of emoting AND looking tough?

Edited July 13, 2018 by Umbelina

[DrSpaceman]

WTF June?  Get in the damn van!  You spend the entire god damn season trying to get away, then you stay? 

The show is just so slow moving for me.  I binge watched season one a few months back and stuck it out through season two.  Interest is waning fast

I did like Aunt Lydia finally getting beat like her smug self righteous ass has deserved since episode one. 

Also just in general I have a hard time reconciling the pre-Gilead Serena with the present day Serena.  The pre-Gilead Serena had a whole lot more ambition, intelligence and gumption than the mostly placid "serene" Serena we see now.  How one becomes the other, I have no idea really. 

[Stiggs]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

I just thought of something else.

June didn't know about the escape, but MAYDAY or the Martha's did.  I bet that car has supplies for the baby already inside.  Or, at least, it's likely.  They knew a baby would be on board.

 

I’m glad you brought this up, because this is what I assumed - that the Mayday/UF folks were organized enough to have supplies of some sort. If not baby formula, at least water. Given that they seemed to have the cover from the commander, I also assumed that it wouldn’t be a weeks’ long journey. But then I know where assuming gets me, heh. 

[Eureka]

On 7/11/2018 at 1:19 AM, chocolatine said:

I love that the name of Lawrence's Martha is Cora. 

I literally said the exact same thing to DS!

[charmed1]

Dare I say that I really like the standard issue boots the Handmaids wear? I’d wear those here in pre-Gilead. I hate heels and the Handmaid boots are both stylish and functional. Great for kicking the shit out of dying rapists and sadistic headmistresses. But they seem like they’d be clunky and noisy. I thought someone would surely hear June running across those fields.

[DrSpaceman]

As far as June staying to try and save her daughter and how being in Canada she could not do much, I don't think that is true in the least bit. 

She was not just a Handmaid, she was a Handmaid for one of the most powerful men in Gilead.  She could give intelligence to Canada and or the 'new USA' (I like to call it HaLaska) about the Waterfords.  She could speak out about the horrific things that happened in Gilead that she witnessed, including the death of a 15 year old girl by ritual drowning for kissing a man that was not her forced upon husband.  She could tell the whole world how Commander Waterford of Gilead does not even know what is happening in his own household.  Just the letters getting out from the handmaids seemed shocking to Canada and the world and those I am sure do not even begin to describe the horrors of it all.  The personal Handmaid to a top commander of the country speaking out about everything that has happened would be extremely powerful in turning the world even more against Gilead and hopefully doing more on a united international front to fight back against them. 

Now would it save her daughter?  Maybe not.  That would be the risk, retaliation against her.  Then the question comes down to a selfish decision though, do you want to save your own daughter or save potentially everyone living under an evil dictatorship?

Staying though and she has little potential to do much besides being a small cog in the resistance movement to maybe save her daughter.  And even that is a big maybe. 

[Stiggs]

9 minutes ago, charmed1 said:

Dare I say that I really like the standard issue boots the Handmaids wear? I’d wear those here in pre-Gilead. I hate heels and the Handmaid boots are both stylish and functional. Great for kicking the shit out of dying rapists and sadistic headmistresses. But they seem like they’d be clunky and noisy. I thought someone would surely hear June running across those fields.

Lol! You and me both! And clunky and all, I’d take them over the dyed-to-match 80s wedding party shoes the wives wear. 

[Eureka]

On 7/11/2018 at 6:00 PM, alexvillage said:

Was anyone else reminded of the Underground Railroad when the train showed up as the Martha's helped June escape? I think that was the purpose of the train in the scene. Marthas as Harriet Tubman. 

That was a direct nod to something in the book and I’m glad they did it. 

[Umbelina]

Commanders are the ONLY ones who get handmaids.  I'm sure, out of that throng of people who have escaped to Canada, others have been Handmaids.  Moira can testify Fred visits Jezebels! 

Of course, since the show hasn't bothered, we don't know how much they've already said up there, blogged about, or how many have been interviewed by the world press already.

No one in Canada has done jack shit to rescue any of the stolen children. 

June's got a lot in her pocket now that gives her the best chance of saving Hannah, a chance that she wouldn't have in Canada.  Fred, who is easily manipulated by June, already offered to arrange more visits with Hannah.  She knows her name.  She knows where their summer house is.  Serena is a ally of sorts now too.  She is connected with Mayday through both Rita and Nick now.  She knows a Commander that is a lot more powerful than Fred just helped an escape.  She has tools she didn't have before, and she has her daughter's words echoing in her brain, "why didn't you try harder?"

She's trying harder now, and risking her life, her body parts, her sanity, her own possible freedom to save her kid.  Somehow that's making people angry at her?  What?

Just off the top of my head, spur of the moment here.

She takes Fred up on his offer to arrange another meeting with Hannah, but this time, sweet talks him into believing she wants HIM to meet her too.  They meet in that same house, but Nick makes sure June is armed as well. 

June's job is to shoot Fred as soon as Nick takes out both guards (or maybe Nick's able to arrange the guards, either way, others from Mayday this time.)  With the guards and Fred disabled, they take one car and the Martha takes the other and the all run for the border.  Nick, as Eye, and as Mayday, knows where the current checkpoints will be, so they can all avoid them.  All four escape to Canada at least to a deserted cabin in Maine Nick knows about, until they can safely cross the border.

(Alternately, they tie up the Martha so she doesn't get in trouble, if she doesn't want to try to escape, and just hide the other car.)

That's just ONE way, she has time and resources now to plan another.

For example, Serena obviously knew where Hannah was, she may also know the mother.  Something could be arranged that way as well.

Edited July 13, 2018 by Umbelina

[DrSpaceman]

Also lets be realistic.....

If June was not the center of the show and obviously she has to be on it for the show to exist, she would be immediately sent to the colonies or hung on the wall as soon as she steps foot back on the Waterford household at this point.  It would be stupid to think anything else.  She slapped the commander and told him to fuck off.  The baby that was the whole purpose of her still being there is now gone.  No one is going to believe she had nothing to do with it.  They have killed or shipped off people for far, far less in this show. 

Serena, his own wife, lost a finger simply for suggesting that women be allowed to read the Bible.  June is just going to waltz back home and still be allowed to stay? 

Edited July 13, 2018 by DrSpaceman

[Veronimo]

I acknowledge the missteps of the season, but I still found it gripping and a must-watch! And I did appreciate this finale. I've read through this entire thread, and just wanted to mention a few things I don't think have been discussed yet:

Nicole. This name is from the French, and it translates into "people's victory." From that perspective, the name works on Serena's end (the birth being a victory for Gilead) and on June's end (her escape being a victory for the resistance), as well. The fact that it's a nod to her actual paternity is a bonus for me because, yes, I am all about June & Nick. Don't @ me!

June's Decision. This was maddening. But also understandable because now that Ho-Cole has (likely) made it out of Gilead, June knows that it's possible to get Hannah out, too. And as others have mentioned, the resistance is looking pretty good: Lawrence, Marthas, Handmaids, Eyes, maybe even a few Serenas, not to mention Oprah, Canada, Little Americans, and Mr. Flirty Guy from Hawaii. Everyone is complaining that June didn't leave Gilead, but I posit that she did. Not physically, but psychologically. And that's arguably more important. 

Back Stories. Any guesses on Rita's backstory beyond what we know about her son? I think we only know about the previous life of one Martha, correct?—The pediatric surgeon? We live in a society that often discounts the strength and wisdom of 50+ year-old women and renders them invisible. Gilead has done the same, and it's a mistake there, too. I can't wait to witness the full power of the Marthas.  

Inconsistency. Many on the thread have mentioned that Handmaids and others are doing things that never would have been tolerated when the series began, i.e. walking in groups, speaking at a normal volume, etc. etc., but I think this indicates that the edges of Gilead are definitely fraying and that it's ripe for a fall. I think, too, that some of the complaints about Serena and June acting in inconsistent ways is a little unfair. Gilead comes at you fast, and I think we've all had intense experiences where we thought did I just do that? Or where we've been frozen, not said what we wanted to say, missed an opportunity (hello delegation from Mexico, I'm fine! I LOVE being a Handmaid!), or whatnot. These characters sometimes act out of character because Gilead has done a number on their character.

"I love you." She finally said it. My stone cold heart broke for Nick both times that he declared his love to a stoically unresponsive June. I look forward to seeing what happens with the Nick-June-Luke triangle of people with single-syllable names. It's arguable, but I think Nick could have escaped Gilead any number of times since June appeared; he stays because he loves her. He's put himself in harm's way again and again to protect her, and the truth is...Luke left. I don't blame him, but he left. 

Thanks for indulging these things that have been floating around my brain...

[secnarf]

5 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Her child just asked her "Why didn't you try harder?"  She's JUST seen what will happen to Hannah, what is happening to her, being raised as chattel for some man she's never met, not even learning to read.  She additionally now knows about the Femaleroad out, has an Eye (Nick) who is also in Mayday, and has a besotted Fred who will let her visit with Hannah, she also has Hannah's new name, first and last.  She also knows a powerful commander is helping with an escape.  So many reasons to have hope there. Even without all of those things?  Leaving your child behind is not something most women would do, if there was ANY chance of saving her.  June has several chances now, still long-shots, but it's hardly impossible.

 

3 hours ago, LeGrandElephant said:

Did Offred seriously take the time to write that on the wall? She would be the worst spy. Not to mention, besides the time it took, what if something went wrong and she had to go back there and pretend nothing was going on? In a situation like this being practical matters more than making a point! Maybe they just wanted to sell T-shirt’s with that slogan in that font. 

 

I don't understand all of these comments about how Fred is going to let June see Hannah and that is part of the reason why she would stay - seeing Hannah = more chances to rescue Hannah. The literal writing on the wall in her room makes it clear she had a part in Holly/Nicole's disappearance. Fred has already clearly worked that out for himself. After that, June decides to stay?! How can she even go back there, let alone count on Fred to keep his word to let her see Hannah.

[Umbelina]

2 minutes ago, secnarf said:

 

I don't understand all of these comments about how Fred is going to let June see Hannah and that is part of the reason why she would stay - seeing Hannah = more chances to rescue Hannah. The literal writing on the wall in her room makes it clear she had a part in Holly/Nicole's disappearance. Fred has already clearly worked that out for himself. After that, June decides to stay?! How can she even go back there, let alone count on Fred to keep his word to let her see Hannah.

Fred has to cover his own ass.  If he admits HIS household was responsible, he will pay.  He's already made too many errors.  If he can blame all of this on crazy Emily?  He would, IMO, do so in a heartbeat.  He and Serena just talked about hanging on the wall side by side, they know they aren't immune to Gilead's "justice" AND his wife just stepped out of line in front of all the other Commanders as well. 

That's one downside of all of that patriarchy.  They will blame him for being unable to control his own household.  Ditto if he has to say his own guardian threatened him.  Fred's taken enough steps toward the gallows, he won't willingly take more.  Uncontrollable wife, guardian, Martha, AND handmaid?  Bye bye Freddie.  He knows it.

[NoSpam]

49 minutes ago, Veronimo said:

I look forward to seeing what happens with the Nick-June-Luke triangle of people with single-syllable names.

With Luke in Canada, I think what we're in for is as triangle between Nick, June, and FRED the lovesick moustache-twirler.

Edited July 13, 2018 by NoSpam

[Umbelina]

1 minute ago, NoSpam said:

With Luke in Canada, I think what we're in for is as triangle between Nick, June, and FRED the lovesick moustache-twirler.

Please no!  (ha)  Also, please God, no international custody battles!  Blessed Day God.

Actually, I hope Fred DOES lose it, and complains to his fellow Commanders that his Martha Rita looked at him in a surly way, that June wrote "don't let the bastards wear you down" in honor of his previous handmaid who killed herself all over the bedroom wall, and that his driver and guard stopped him from going after his daughter.  Add that to Serena and her reading and petitioning the council? 

Fred's number will be up.  I'm looking forward to the trial!  Also the execution.  Also June hopefully going to live with commander Lawrence, and Serena joining the gals at Jezebels.

Works for me!

[hokiefan]

Surprised I dont see more talk about the map! 

I believe the train was a hint about how June might be able to go on the run. Not sure how she would be able to find the resistance though.

If the show writers are really demented they start S3 with the getaway vehicle getting stopped and blown up by guardians. 

[Pachengala]

7 hours ago, VagueDisclaimer said:

She knows that there haven’t been rescue attempts made[...]

Does she know this? How would she know this? For all she knows, Luke was rescued, and for that matter, perhaps that Moira had help as well. Again I think we’re assuming June knows more than she could based upon what we know. BUT, this is starting to feel like splitting hairs so we can agree to disagree. ??‍♀️

 

3 hours ago, NoSpam said:

Every time I see Joseph Fiennes in this series, I think, "why oh why can't this be Ralph?"

Nooooo! I had no investment in Ol’ Joe, but I’d hate for Rafe to lose his sexy to this repugnant role. 

[Umbelina]

28 minutes ago, hokiefan said:

Surprised I dont see more talk about the map! 

I believe the train was a hint about how June might be able to go on the run. Not sure how she would be able to find the resistance though.

If the show writers are really demented they start S3 with the getaway vehicle getting stopped and blown up by guardians. 

Because it's stupid, and deliberately blurry.  Did someone screen cap those other maps from the Hannah episode?

I tried doctoring this up, and blowing it up, and increasing sharpness, etc.  Nada.

Blue must be mostly settled Gilead proper.  Dark blue MAY mean heavily fortified with troops to prevent more escapes.  Deep red could be global warming flooding or heavy resistance troops.  Pale red, resistance, yellow areas might mean mostly settled, but there is no chance Utah would go along with Gilead's version of religion, none.  They also have heavy food storage, and lots of arms. 

The only thing on the map I'm certain of is the nuclear symbols, probably power plant accidents and meltdowns.  One looks near San Diego, one slightly north of that, Livermore is covered by the fold, and the one in the middle is probably where Janine and Emily were.

Florida and the whole south being red (if it's resistance) doesn't make sense though, because earlier they commented on getting Oranges for the first time from Florida.  ?  So red could all be climate change issues I suppose.

Here's one from Reddit marked spoiler: 

 

https://www.postapocalypticmedia.com/handmaids-tale-map-gilead/  Notes and another darker map shown here.

This, as they note, could be Gilead over time, which would likely mean red does mean resistance, but as they note, and I said before I found this, it contradicts things that have been said on the show. 

Edited July 13, 2018 by Umbelina

[RealitytvLover]

Did anybody else expect June to say "fuck that!" before slapping back the Commander? ??? 

[AnswersWanted]

The entire Waterford household has been internally compromised so I hardly doubt any of them believe they can risk any kind of exposure to outsiders. 

Fred is sure to look after his own ass and best interests, but so will everyone else. 

He’s not just going to take one for the team, if the ship does start sinking then he’s going to drag the rest of them down right along with him, not a single one of them would be spared. 

Under Gilead law none of these people are safe, that means Fred, Serena, Rita, June, and Nick.

The others could cry and complain that Fred was in charge, that they had no other option, that they could not disobey him or make any other decisions, this regime will not care, they will see them all as enemies of the state and they will either hang or worse.

None of the Waterford’s, or those that live in that house, hold any real value to the Gilead leadership.

Nick lost his advantage when Andrew died, he doesn’t matter to the rest of them,  even if he gives up all the goods on Fred they can still kill him right after, Serena is just a wife, they removed her finger because they could care less about her, Rita and June are slaves, they don’t even count as people pretty much, there is no leverage any of them could really use to save themselves, imo. 

We’ve already seen that when a commander loses control of one, just one, of his household members the entire group may be held accountable and slaughtered. 

Frankly Fred really shouldn’t be worried about anyone at home exposing what he’s done, at least not present;y, they cannot do that without drawing unwanted attention to themselves.

Eden and her lover were just executed, to bring a similar scrutiny on to themselves after all that’s happened, while also dealing with a missing baby that they have to explain away somehow? They’d be idiots to chance it. 

Gilead is not a place of fair judgment and giving people the benefit of the doubt, I am quite sure the Waterford household already is on thin ice and has been since June’s first vanishing act. 

[Umbelina]

https://twitter.com/VictoriaAtkin/status/1016565422169079809/photo/1

You can blow this one up and read it!  (3rd photo)  If the link doesn't work, go here, and page down to July 9th.  https://twitter.com/VictoriaAtkin

Or you can page down at the link in this quote.

Quote

Zooming in on the legend, it looks like the green areas (and the areas marked with nuke signs) are “Atomic Wasteland.” Then there are areas outside of them marked “hazardous risk zone.” The orangey areas are marked “rebel occupied area.” So you can clearly see that Gilead controls the blueish areas in northeast, which are marked New Gilead District, the Eastern District, the Atlantic District,  the Midwest District, and East Central District. Then the pinkish areas are also Gilead controlled: Northwest district, Northern district, Southern district, Gulf district, and South East district. Then there are the yellowish areas on the map, which are colonies: Eastern Colonies District, Western Colonies District, and Southwest District. And it appears the black dots are Gilead military bases, which could explain how they were able to get oranges from Florida.  https://www.postapocalypticmedia.com/handmaids-tale-map-gilead/

It's really cool when you can read the legend and the names of the places!   I'm still not positive this is a current map, but it may be.  Red is rebel occupied, and grey are conflict districts.

@hokiefan

It does look like they changed the map in the finale though, because that part near eastern Canada is red here, but deep blue on the show.  Or maybe that is supposed to be gray?  So a conflict area?  (Maine, New Hamshire area)

Edited July 13, 2018 by Umbelina
added stuff

[Anela]

8 hours ago, NoSpam said:

With Luke in Canada, I think what we're in for is as triangle between Nick, June, and FRED the lovesick moustache-twirler.

Oh geez, I hope not. I loathe love triangles. It's bad enough with Nick, June, and Luke (as it is right now), but Fred needs to go away. 

[PsychoDrone]

8 hours ago, AnswersWanted said:

The entire Waterford household has been internally compromised so I hardly doubt any of them believe they can risk any kind of exposure to outsiders. 

Fred is sure to look after his own ass and best interests, but so will everyone else. 

He’s not just going to take one for the team, if the ship does start sinking then he’s going to drag the rest of them down right along with him, not a single one of them would be spared. 

Under Gilead law none of these people are safe, that means Fred, Serena, Rita, June, and Nick.

The others could cry and complain that Fred was in charge, that they had no other option, that they could not disobey him or make any other decisions, this regime will not care, they will see them all as enemies of the state and they will either hang or worse.

None of the Waterford’s, or those that live in that house, hold any real value to the Gilead leadership.

Nick lost his advantage when Andrew died, he doesn’t matter to the rest of them,  even if he gives up all the goods on Fred they can still kill him right after, Serena is just a wife, they removed her finger because they could care less about her, Rita and June are slaves, they don’t even count as people pretty much, there is no leverage any of them could really use to save themselves, imo. 

We’ve already seen that when a commander loses control of one, just one, of his household members the entire group may be held accountable and slaughtered. 

Frankly Fred really shouldn’t be worried about anyone at home exposing what he’s done, at least not present;y, they cannot do that without drawing unwanted attention to themselves.

Eden and her lover were just executed, to bring a similar scrutiny on to themselves after all that’s happened, while also dealing with a missing baby that they have to explain away somehow? They’d be idiots to chance it. 

Gilead is not a place of fair judgment and giving people the benefit of the doubt, I am quite sure the Waterford household already is on thin ice and has been since June’s first vanishing act. 

Your post sums up the precarious position the Waterford household is in.  June going back to the Waterfords makes NO sense at all.  There is no plausible story that covers the missing baby and this handmaid going missing AGAIN.  Show totally glossed over the explanation of how June even was at the winter home in the first place and the investigation of that.  "The owners found her and she returned."  What, that's it?

Handmaid blows up a commander assembly and all in the commander's household are killed.  Fred has handmaid commit suicide, another handmaid disappears 3x, missing baby, resident commits adultery, wife riles up other wives and speaks out of turn, and nothing happens. Oh wait, Serena lost a finger.  I get Fred is high-ranking (not sure why considering his record), but he was already under suspicion.  Gilead should have went scorched earth on the Waterford household.  Maybe, that's how season 3 will start with a trial for Fred.  It better be good because the Waterfords should be done.

6 minutes ago, PsychoDrone said:

 

Edited July 13, 2018 by PsychoDrone

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, Pachengala said:

Nooooo! I had no investment in Ol’ Joe, but I’d hate for Rafe to lose his sexy to this repugnant role. 

Ralph Fiennes already crossed that bridge for me, when playing a non-fictional monster in Schindler's List. Then again, that was the first time I saw him, so it's not so much that he crossed a bridge, but that my introduction to him guaranteed he'd never be sexy in my eyes.

[AnswersWanted]

1 hour ago, PsychoDrone said:

Your post sums up the precarious position the Waterford household is in.  June going back to the Waterfords makes NO sense at all.  There is no plausible story that covers the missing baby and this handmaid going missing AGAIN.  Show totally glossed over the explanation of how June even was at the winter home in the first place and the investigation of that.  "The owners found her and she returned."  What, that's it?

Handmaid blows up a commander assembly and all in the commander's household are killed.  Fred has handmaid commit suicide, another handmaid disappears 3x, missing baby, resident commits adultery, wife riles up other wives and speaks out of turn, and nothing happens. Oh wait, Serena lost a finger.  I get Fred is high-ranking (not sure why considering his record), but he was already under suspicion.  Gilead should have went scorched earth on the Waterford household.  Maybe, that's how season 3 will start with a trial for Fred.  It better be good because the Waterfords should be done.

 

My fear is that the show will skip and jump right over this finale just so that they won’t have to put away any of their “toys” yet, meaning the characters, including Fred.

The show wants us to believe nearly everyone within Gilead’s walls must mind their every word and action or risk immediate punishment/death.

Yet the Waterford’s household are just breezing through despite everything that has happened to them and because of them so far.  

This entire season Fred has been messing up and showcasing his absolute incompetence from one episode to the next.

From June running away, the first time, to the new center imploding, literally and figuratively, where has any accountability been demanded of him by the regime?

His trip to Canada was a massive failure and huge embarrassment for the regime, easily his biggest screwup yet, at least with regards to the outside world and their economy and still they didn’t bat an eye apparently, they even promoted him! 

His house is where Handmaids go to lose their shit, as you said by taking their own life or just hauling ass at any given opportunity.

Coverups can only last so long and work so many times. 

Their good will should have run out by episode 6. 

Now they will be dealing with June disappearing again, even if she returns or not, and the missing baby. 

Fred knows Rita and Nick were involved now but he can’t dare turn them in, they also can’t risk turning on him because he has the ability to screw them over in turn, and the same goes for Serena. 

 I think that was the show’s plan all along actually, to dig the hole so deep for the Waterford household that they each must protect one another or else they risk losing their own lives.

Gilead will not forgive them for any of their “sins” and they all know each other‘s wrongdoings. 

The show seems determined to keep the Waterford’s as a protected group that can get away with almost anything whenever it suits them and it’s hurting the plot, imho.

Book spoiler below:

 

Spoiler

Atwood set up the Waterford’s to fail and fail they did. They died in fact. She never wrote them constantly getting away with everything under the sun without consequences. She made sure to keep things level and even, they were not invincible godlike monsters, they were terrible people who eventually got what was coming to them. She kept them human, the show is making them into caricatures. 

[Veronimo]

2 hours ago, PsychoDrone said:

Show totally glossed over the explanation of how June even was at the winter home in the first place and the investigation of that.  "The owners found her and she returned."  What, that's it?

Handmaid blows up a commander assembly and all in the commander's household are killed.  Fred has handmaid commit suicide, another handmaid disappears 3x, missing baby, resident commits adultery, wife riles up other wives and speaks out of turn, and nothing happens. Oh wait, Serena lost a finger.  I get Fred is high-ranking (not sure why considering his record), but he was already under suspicion.  Gilead should have went scorched earth on the Waterford household.  Maybe, that's how season 3 will start with a trial for Fred.  It better be good because the Waterfords should be done.

They definitely glossed over the explanation of June giving birth at the summer house. But Aunt Lydia, in praising June to the other Aunts, said something like, "Out for a drive! Goes into labor! Gives birth alone!" while Waterford describes Nick as falling victim to some overzealous Guardians. So I guess we're supposed to assume that the story is the Waterfords instructed Nick to take June for a drive, she went into labor, he brought her into the house, he went outside to greet the Guardians upon their arrival, they were instantly suspicious and took him away? 

For most of this season i thought we'd get some sort of reveal about why the Waterford household is relatively untouchable. I kept thinking it had something to do with Jezebels (about which we know almost nothing)—that it was some sort of elite frat boy club and that membership guaranteed a certain level of protection. But then Fred and Serena showed up at the summer house in a genuine panic, and I realized...the writer's room dropped a big ball. Plenty of time to self-correct; I'm rooting for the writers!

[Cameron326]

I’ve enjoyed the vast majority of this show, both seasons one and two. It has always had it’s flaws but for the most part it’s been an interesting story, well written, well acted (with one or two exceptions) and well produced. However, that was one of the worst season finales I’ve ever seen.

The flaws which had been rumbling in the background all season came bang to the front.  Just three off the top of head. 

1) Serena’s unbelievable and undeserved “redemption”. (Note to show writers: a truly evil person who looks out for their child is still evil and not worthy of any sympathy. Give that string section a break already!). To my mind she is worse than her husband.

2) The ridiculous amount of freedom the characters in the Waterford household enjoy around the home of this supposed tyrant. 

3) June’s OTT transformation into ultimate badass. Her only real power in the show comes from the influence she has in the Waterford home. If and when she loses that (Season 3?) what has she got left that warrants such confidence in her ability to survive and free her daughter. Simultaneously the lack of strong villains in the show. With pathetic men like Waterford in charge of Gilead how the hell did they create Gilead in the first place. 

three other bits that annoyed me due to characters behaving out of character. 

1) the wives all supporting Serena’s brave Stand against the council. One or two brave souls maybe, but all of them? Suddenly, just like that? Come on.

2) June asking/allowing for her baby to be named according to the wishes of that psychotic monster. Come on!

3) June wasting the Martha’s efforts for escape and heading back to the start despite knowing her daughter was in a relatively safe place and being willing to leave first previously (all due to a random flashback). Come on.

Not sure I’ll be tuning in for S3

Edited July 13, 2018 by Cameron326

[Veronimo]

6 minutes ago, Cameron326 said:

3) June wasting the Martha’s efforts for escape and heading back to the start despite knowing her daughter was in a relatively safe place and being willing to leave first previously (all due to a random flashback). Come on.

I'm not sure about this. The Martha's efforts weren't completely wasted because Ho-Cole and Emily do appear to be on their way out of Gilead. And their efforts also demonstrated to June that it would be possible for Hannah to escape, as well. Knowing that—believing that—how could she leave? The focus of the season was motherhood, and June is trying to do what all mothers try to do: protect their children. Serena, for all her faults, her pride, her twisted worldview, her complicity—did the same (and no, I don't think this redeems her). June now knows that Luke will be fighting for her and Hannah in Little America and that the letters from Jezebels have made a difference. She even knows that Oprah is out there, somewhere, in oversized glasses (okay, so there's no way to be sure about the glasses). Everything she's learned this season about resistance inside and outside Gilead has primed her for fighting back in S3. No doubt parts of it will be completely ridiculous, but I'm looking forward to it...

[PsychoDrone]

20 minutes ago, Veronimo said:

I'm not sure about this. The Martha's efforts weren't completely wasted because Ho-Cole and Emily do appear to be on their way out of Gilead. And their efforts also demonstrated to June that it would be possible for Hannah to escape, as well. Knowing that—believing that—how could she leave? The focus of the season was motherhood, and June is trying to do what all mothers try to do: protect their children. Serena, for all her faults, her pride, her twisted worldview, her complicity—did the same (and no, I don't think this redeems her). June now knows that Luke will be fighting for her and Hannah in Little America and that the letters from Jezebels have made a difference. She even knows that Oprah is out there, somewhere, in oversized glasses (okay, so there's no way to be sure about the glasses). Everything she's learned this season about resistance inside and outside Gilead has primed her for fighting back in S3. No doubt parts of it will be completely ridiculous, but I'm looking forward to it...

Tell me that Ho-Cole is not catching on as the name for the baby?  Please, call her Holly or Nicohle, but NOT Ho-Cole.  That doesn't sound right at all.

[Veronimo]

1 minute ago, PsychoDrone said:

Tell me that Ho-Cole is not catching on as the name for the baby?  Please, call her Holly or Nicohle, but NOT Ho-Cole.  That doesn't sound right at all.

Hahahahaha! Definitely NOT catching on; I just used it because I can't bear to call her Nicole (yet), and I was too lazy to think of something better. Fear not.

[JasonCC]

For the elaborate synchronized underground network, chaos-causing housefires, etc to have packed more of a punch I think there should have been 2 or 3 handmaids in the back of that truck getting smuggled out. I just don't buy this elaborate underground Martha network would have put such an elaborate attack on in A) such short notice B) just for June. What's more realistic is Rita was AWARE of many of her fellow Marthas being a part of the resistance.....Eden's execution has her feeling angry and guilty,....and she was able to piggy-back the Waterford household onto a pre-existing planned terror attack on Gilead.

ETA: I suppose there could be other escape vehicles than just the one we saw that Emily got in

It was a nice touch with some of the Marthas in the resistance saying "Godspeed" etc. I remember from the book Moira--being justifiably shell-shocked and scared of religion thanks to Gilead--commenting that it took her a while to get used to prayers/religion from the resistance and those who were helping her (I think they were Quakers). She realizes some people were fighting Gilead because of their religious faith. I think in Season 1 there was a Catholic nun doing the same. 

Edited July 13, 2018 by JasonCC

[dleighg]

2 minutes ago, JasonCC said:

For the elaborate synchronized underground network, chaos-causing housefires, etc to have packed more of a punch I think there should have been 2 or 3 handmaids in the back of that truck getting smuggled out. I just don't buy this elaborate underground Martha network would have put such an elaborate attack on in A) such short notice B) just for June. What's more realistic is Rita was AWARE of many of her fellow Marthas being a part of the resistance.....Eden's execution has her feeling angry and guilty,....and she was able to piggy-back the Waterford household onto a pre-existing terror attack on Gilead.

I agree with this. I also thought that it looked like there were fires in more than one home? Overheard on the radio was "I found another one" which I took to mean another fire? 

[bonniejmac]

13 hours ago, hokiefan said:

Surprised I dont see more talk about the map! 

I believe the train was a hint about how June might be able to go on the run. Not sure how she would be able to find the resistance though.

If the show writers are really demented they start S3 with the getaway vehicle getting stopped and blown up by guardians. 

As a North Carolinian, the first thing I noticed about the map is that our state lines appear to be intact whereas South Carolina seems to have kind of slid into Georgia and I'm oddly pleased by/proud of that. I don't really know why.

However, much less pleased that we appear to be part of Gilead-proper. I mean, not really surprising, considering our east coast location, but still.

As far as the show goes, I agree with the idea that the logistics of how Gilead functions and what is what is one of the most interesting things they could be exploring and showing us and it's disappointing that we're not seeing that.

[JasonCC]

They really do need a continuity person on this show. Wasn't there reference S1 to Chicago being some sort of autonomous, resisting city-state? If the dark red represents areas Gilead isn't in complete control of (yet)? 

Edited July 13, 2018 by JasonCC

[chaifan]

1 hour ago, Cameron326 said:

three other bits that annoyed me due to characters behaving out of character. 

1) the wives all supporting Serena’s brave Stand against the council. One or two brave souls maybe, but all of them? Suddenly, just like that? Come on.

 

I'll disagree with you on this one.  I have to believe that even the most religious Gilead-supportive of the wives never would have willingly given away their right to read.  I could see them on board for banning certain books, newspapers or publications, but not wholesale banning reading for women, to the point that food labels are in pictures.  If there was any issue that I could see all of them agreeing on, it would be this one.  And, there's safety in numbers, so once Serena and Naomi come forward, and another does, and another, and so on.  (We don't actually know if all of them participated, some may have said no.  We just know there were a lot.)  Also, with Fred being so high up, they probably figured that if Serena was doing the asking it would be granted.  And, I would also guess that like Serena, most do read in private at home and their husbands know about it, so again, they probably figured it was safe.  Remember, the were only asking for girls to be allowed to read the bible.  One book. 

I hope they use this, and Serena's finger chop, as a way to get some of the wives to turn against their husbands ever so slightly, maybe one or two start helping the Martha network or something like that.  They all have to realize their lives are shit if something doesn't change. 

[dleighg]

Yes, are there theories on what the different colors are (other than the dark red presumably being "fighting zones")? And what's up with Vermont and New Hampshire?

[Umbelina]

2 hours ago, dleighg said:

Yes, are there theories on what the different colors are (other than the dark red presumably being "fighting zones")? And what's up with Vermont and New Hampshire?

Don't need theories anymore.  That link I posted above has the legible map in it, you can read the whole thing.  Click on the 3rd photo here.    It's easily enlarged and you can even read the legend.

https://twitter.com/VictoriaAtkin/status/1016565422169079809/photo/1

Thank you reddit user for figuring out how to copy it from that tweet! 

Edited July 13, 2018 by Umbelina

[PsychoDrone]

I always felt the commanders really don't know the danger they're in.  They have the means for their destruction living under their roofs.  Similar to an abused spouse, the abuser never knows when the abusee will say, "That's enough" and strike back.  Take Lydia for an example.  Bet she NEVER thought a handmaid would have the nerve to stab her (in the back) and kick her repeatedly as she lay there dying.  The resistance is alive and capable.  Someone supplied the suicide bomber with the explosives and provided her direction on her task.  Gilead is likely putting down many resistance actions, which we don't see.  But, it doesn't take much before these acts of defiance fuels others to occur.  We know that people are making it out and telling their stories.  The trip to Canada was a complete cluster due to the release of the women's letters about Gilead.

This season was torture porn for how bad the women are treated.  Enough with that.  Show, we get it.  People are oppressed and women are treated horribly.  Next season, I want to see retaliation, Gilead dealing with the resistance, and how difficult it is to keep the people in line.

Edited July 13, 2018 by PsychoDrone