S02.E09: Rosalie 2018.06.29

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

As the ladies begin to plan for life after the show, Justine's mom shows up on Sam's doorstep, and Bash and Debbie scheme to woo buyers at a TV expo.

[Nordly Beaumont]

That last scene... "I'm sorry. I can't" - poor Basch.

[Lady Calypso]

I like Justine's mother. Surprisingly, Ruth was a good buffer who did try to keep the peace between Sam and Justine's mother. I actually like how Sam was honest with Rosalie and actually kind of figured out the parenting thing with Justine. But I am mildly surprised they went all in with Ruth/Sam here. I know they've been hinting at it and building up to it, but they really went full force here. So that means poor Russell is going to get his heart broken.

I did see where the Rhonda storyline was going. But I did chuckle at high Carmen still coming up with great ideas. I still am disappointed with so little Carmen this season. 

Arthie and Yolanda had a really good scene together. I like when this show expands on the other women's storylines.

Debbie and Bash make a surprisingly solid team. I really liked their scenes. But that end? That was clear as day as to where that's going. Poor Bash.

[ketose]

9 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I like Justine's mother. Surprisingly, Ruth was a good buffer who did try to keep the peace between Sam and Justine's mother. I actually like how Sam was honest with Rosalie and actually kind of figured out the parenting thing with Justine. But I am mildly surprised they went all in with Ruth/Sam here. I know they've been hinting at it and building up to it, but they really went full force here. So that means poor Russell is going to get his heart broken.

I did see where the Rhonda storyline was going. But I did chuckle at high Carmen still coming up with great ideas. I still am disappointed with so little Carmen this season. 

Arthie and Yolanda had a really good scene together. I like when this show expands on the other women's storylines.

Debbie and Bash make a surprisingly solid team. I really liked their scenes. But that end? That was clear as day as to where that's going. Poor Bash.

The stuff with Debbie and Bash reminded me of the Comdex stuff from Halt and Catch Fire.

[Loandbehold]

Whoa, major college flashbacks in this episode. Between the music and the dance, and Ruth dealing w/ crutches. It would have been funny if the bag split open and the Ruth Gordon VHS tapes fell out. The plastic bag rubs against the screw of the crutch and that happens. Trust me. Also, somebody should have told Ruth to tie t-shirts around the tops of the crutches for added cushion. By the time I got home from the hospital, I knew I needed something. 

Loved the Bash-Debbie team up. 

But, as soon as Bash got the call from the hospital, I knew. 

[kieyra]

2 hours ago, ketose said:

The stuff with Debbie and Bash reminded me of the Comdex stuff from Halt and Catch Fire.

Love HACF. (Sense8 also did a similar setup with someone building fake buzz in the entertainment industry.)

[thuganomics85]

Not surprised that they went there with Ruth and Sam, but I'm still a bit disappointed.  I like their interactions, but I'm not sure I want anything romantic to happen between them.  Maybe the show will surprise me.

Other then that, I loved all of the stuff with Sam, Justine, and Rosalie.  I thought they did a solid job at making Rosalie not just some one dimensional terror, and even though Sam clearly wants Justine to stay in L.A., he is willing to honor her mother's wishes, and didn't let Justine just run off either.

Liked seeing the rest of the GLOW women let loose, and some different pairings like Yolanda/Arthie and Tamme/Sheila.  And I'm getting a kick out of Jenny and Melanie still bickering about the jacket.  And Carmen getting stone and thinking of a crazy way to get Rhonda her green card was hilarious!

Glad we got a Gregory appearance!

Bash and Debbie made for a great pair and, of course, Bash's plan came from Muppets Take Manhattan.  But that final scene was so sad.  They're really done a great job with Bash this season.

[txhorns79]

I really liked the episode, but I was actually kind of put off by the final scene.  It felt like it was a little too dark for this particular show.  I would also say I didn’t feel that Bash’s character and his relationship to Flor is developed enough to where the death has the punch it should have.    

And Britannica, it goes without saying, do not marry your stalker, even if he seems harmless, for Green card purposes.  

Edited July 2, 2018 by txhorns79

[Whimsy]

On 7/2/2018 at 12:13 PM, txhorns79 said:

I really liked the episode, but I was actually kind of put off by the final scene.  It felt like it was a little too dark for this particular show.  I would also say I didn’t feel that Bash’s character and his relationship to Flor is developed enough to where the death has the punch it should have.    

Chris Lowell’s distraught face just killed me at the end. I thought he did an amazing job so I definitely felt the punch. 

[DianeDobbler]

Knowing they are actually going there (or at least putting it totally out there) with Sam and Ruth, which I would have bet money they wouldn't even think of doing when this thing started, I re-watched some of Season 1. It appears to me that GLOW intended for Sam to have a romantic frisson with one of the two female leads from the start, and wrote a bunch of one on ones with him with both to see which played. And, on paper, Debbie/Sam is a better story, but chemistry-wise, it's Sam and Ruth for sure. It's that energy and overlap. I have so many objections to Sam/Ruth, but the bottom line is the age difference, and knowing it would never be remotely considered if the genders were reversed. That said, I'm for it, in that weird "I don't want it but I do want it" way, so I guess it's working.

[Clanstarling]

On 7/1/2018 at 12:16 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Not surprised that they went there with Ruth and Sam, but I'm still a bit disappointed.  I like their interactions, but I'm not sure I want anything romantic to happen between them.  Maybe the show will surprise me.

I was disappointed too - but you know, Marc Maron really sells it, so I guess I'll wait to see what they do. So far, imo, they haven't really made a false step in the show.

On 7/4/2018 at 4:59 PM, Whimsy said:

Chris Lowell’s distraught face just killed me at the end. I thought he did an amazing job so I definitely felt the punch. 

I teared up. That's a part of the 80's that is in no way nostalgic. It was, and still is, heartbreaking.

[DianeDobbler]

There are a few interviews out there with Brie and Maron discusses the relationship between their characters, and the biggest reservation both of them have, which would be mine, as well, is storytelling. Brie said her dream is for the show to run 6 seasons, so as far as she's concerned, Sam and Ruth shouldn't fuck until Season 5. They both think that for the relationship to be realistic, it would have to be a mess, and that would take up a lot of space on the show. It would become part of the canon, same as Ruth sleeping with Debbie's husband, so that would have to be constantly acknowledged. And obviously, I can't envision the writers just having them happy and fulfilled together for the next four seasons either. That's what Brie says terrifies her (what consummating the relationship would do to story sustainability). Neither actor seems to know what the writers have in mind. They both understand what pulls their characters together and makes them close, but Brie is understandably extremely guarded against her character's stories becoming organized around a romantic relationship - we've all seen what happens with that on shows. That only works on a two-hander, IMO. An ensemble just becomes a cluster fuck. I agree that unless they have some great post-coital arc in mind that serves the entire cast, it's best to wait til S5 if at all.

A bit OT (bear with me) - it's very very popular on the internet for some to complain "Why can't the leads be platonic! Why does it always have to be romantic?!" Well, if the leads are a straight man and woman, age-appropriate-ish for each other, are best friends, both wish to find love, AND have fantastic chemistry together, and have not found convincing true love with others, I think it's unrealistic for them not to be romantic. That's what would happen in real life. It's just weird and fan-ficy on tv when it doesn't. BUT, in this case we have a 20 year age difference where I would not necessarily expect (or expect at all) Sam and Ruth to develop feelings. They could have left that completely out, had it be a father-daughter type thing - like Michael and Erin on The Office, for instance. I know Sam's the main guy on the show but I was sort of shocked that they saw him as a romantic lead.  Now that they've gone there, I am greatly enjoying my own discomfort and secondhand awkwardness, and am hooked, so there's no turning back for me. Prior to that, though, IMO all six years of a GLOW run could have transpired without my ever considering Sam and Ruth that way or expecting that the show would do so.

Edited July 7, 2018 by DianeDobbler

[dubbel zout]

5 minutes ago, DianeDobbler said:

Well, if the leads are a straight man and woman, age-appropriate-ish for each other, are best friends, both wish to find love, AND have fantastic chemistry together, and have not found convincing true love with others, I think it's unrealistic for them not to be romantic. That's what would happen in real life.

They could try to be a couple and fail—that's also real life. Jerry and Elaine were platonic after their brief sex rekindling ("Sex, to save the relationship!"), and it certainly didn't wreck Seinfeld. It's all about the writing, as always.

[DianeDobbler]

Oh sure, they could try and fail. Although I didn't think Jerry and Elaine particularly had that type of chemistry. I just mean the types of shows where it's "Here I am, hot, unmarried, a few issues, decent at heart, secretly would love to find love." "Wow, and here *I* am in the same boat!" AND they have fantastic chemistry. Cue a particular audience segment going "why does it always have to be romantic!"

Because - if it's set up like that, THAT is life. Show me a platonic friendship where there are no actual obstacles (I'm not talking the "internal" obstacles found on TV) where that would happen. "we have amazing chemistry, we are best friends, both single and available, both in search of love - but hey - let's be platonic friends to prove that's a thing!" SOMETHING has to be missing for the platonic part to work, and that something should probably be the chemistry.  

MY particular beef is when the leads don't have a compelling chemistry, but get together anyway because it ties it all up. "Scrubs" comes to mind. For multiple seasons the show runners insisted Sarah Chalk's character would not get (back) together with Zach Braff's character, and even had her sleep with his brother to seal the deal. But they did, because of laziness and the show running too long. It would have been completely believable if they had not. On many shows where the chemistry IS present, it would be contrived if they didn't get together.

Speaking of chemistry, Mark Maron and Britt Baron (Justine) ALSO have terrific chemistry. Just the rhythm with minimal conversation. Just her turning to him with her hand out for the cash, or her grabbing the fifty and saying "That's a lot - guess I'll use the extra on drugs." I do not know why the hell they appear to have written her out. Maybe it serves a story point, but it's a loss to the entertainment value. Baron is a really good actress and the dynamic was fun to watch. Maybe she got a bigger gig? She reminds me a bit of the girl who plays Abby on Santa Clarita Diet, who also has some chops.

Edited July 7, 2018 by DianeDobbler

[tennisgurl]

Of course even high, Carmen is totally on it. 

I liked Rosalie, and it seemed like she was actually coming around to having Sam being a part of Justines life. I hope she doesent leave for real though, I like Justineand her and Sam figuring out a kind of weird but sweet father/daughter relationship has been really nice. Ruth was actually a pretty good third party adult to have around. 

It was fun seeing Debbie and Bash team up, but that phone call was devastating. Chris Lowell is hilarious, but he has played the more dramatic bits this season really well. What an awful situation, especially with funeral homes apparently not wanting to touch his body. Its just insane to me that people not so long ago had so little idea how AIDS worked (as what was strongly implied he died of), or that it had such a massive, society wide stigma. 

[Clanstarling]

6 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Its just insane to me that people not so long ago had so little idea how AIDS worked (as what was strongly implied he died of), or that it had such a massive, society wide stigma. 

To be fair, it was a brand new disease, and it took a long time to discover the ins and outs of it. I remember the first reports of a "gay cancer" in the late 70's, I think (can't quite remember) and how the information changed fairly regularly for years on how and who it infected.

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

8 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Its just insane to me that people not so long ago had so little idea how AIDS worked (as what was strongly implied he died of), or that it had such a massive, society wide stigma. 

To be fair, it was a brand new disease, and it took a long time to discover the ins and outs of it. I remember the first reports of a "gay cancer" in the late 70's, I think (can't quite remember) and how the information changed fairly regularly for years on how and who it infected.

It was also such a vicious disease—people were diagnosed and died months later, and they died in horrible ways. I remember reading about people who were going to memorial services/funerals two and three times a week. A lot of people lost their entire group of friends to the disease. It was unbelievably awful. An entire generation of men (the vast majority of deaths were men) was lost because of the AIDS epidemic.

[wendyg]

I think the first AIDS cases date to about 1981. I'd say an entire generation of gay men was lost, not men in general (though it's also true that the disease looks very different outside the US, and in Africa many more deaths were and are women). For those interested in what it was like, I suggest the TV production of Larry Kramer's THE NORMAL HEART from a couple of years ago, or the book by Randy Shilts, AND THE BAND PLAYED ON (that was also made into a movie, though I think the book is a vastly better explanation of how things went). The early association of the disease with gay men meant that Ronald Reagan's government declined to fund research until forced.

[dubbel zout]

53 minutes ago, wendyg said:

I'd say an entire generation of gay men was lost, not men in general

Yes, this is more accurate, at least in the US at that time. 

53 minutes ago, wendyg said:

For those interested in what it was like, I suggest the TV production of Larry Kramer's THE NORMAL HEART from a couple of years ago, or the book by Randy Shilts, AND THE BAND PLAYED ON (that was also made into a movie, though I think the book is a vastly better explanation of how things went).

PBS had some heartbreaking documentaries, too. Silverlake Life was one that really stayed with me. You watched two men in a loving, committed relationship simply waste away before your eyes. It was gut-wrenching.

[ketose]

The confounding part was that AIDS didn't kill people, it destroyed the immune system so that something else would kill people. Kaposi's sarcoma developed as a result of an existing Herpes virus, but only in a compromised immune system. That virus could be spread by saliva. In the early days of the epidemic, it went from gay cancer to gay immunodeficiency (GRIDS) to simply acquired immune deficiency syndrome. Bash really would have some reason to be afraid based on the (lack of) information out there at the time.

[BigDfromLA]

Outstanding use of the Genesis song, "Man On The Corner" to end the episode. This was not a big eighties hit single, but an excellent "hidden gem" 80's song!

I love the Justine character. The actress who plays her is excellent and she is a amazingly beautiful as well.

[Danny Franks]

Hey, Grigori's back! Briefly. I missed him.

I really love Sam as a grumpy dad, and the relationship between him and Justine actually feels earned.  When he said he didn't want to lose her, I believed him. And he was honest and earnest with Rosalie, which makes me think the door is open for him to be Justine's dad without too much opposition.

Britt Baron has really done a good job of creating Justine as this mess up, conflicted but genuinely goodhearted kid, and I really felt for her when she was on the dance floor with Billy. Hopefully she returns next season.

But I really don't like Sam as an uncomfortable romantic interest. I just dread the idea of a relationship between him and Ruth. Each of them is enough of a mess on their own, without trying to be in a relationship with someone else who's a mess. There is no way it's ever going to be healthy for either of them, or for the show. As demonstrated here, with them almost kissing and the Ruth running off to sleep with Russell.

The girls coming up with finale ideas, as well as the marriage of convenience for Rhonda, was fun. Carmen has surely never been high before, because I imagine her dad and brothers would have scared off anyone who tried to offer her drugs.

The TV show fair, or whatever it was, was really interesting. I love the idea of these physical conventions being places where executives could find new shows, in the days where you needed physical copies on tape. And I guess those execs were more gullible back in the 80s, because that whisper campaign was far from subtle.

Bash as the idealistic but slightly incompetent optimist was great. He's become one of my favourite characters on the show. And pairing him up with Debbie worked really well, with his energy bouncing off her dour pessimism, and then rubbing off on her, until she's as jolly as him.

The phone call at the end... ah, damn. One of the harshest realities of the 1980s brought home. Really good acting from Chris Lowell. So has Florian been ill all this time he's been away? Quietly dying of AIDS-related pneumonia in a hospital, or in the company of some out gay friends he's never introduced Bash to?

[dubbel zout]

The whole prom sequence was terrific.

9 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

Quietly dying of AIDS-related pneumonia in a hospital, or in the company of some out gay friends he's never introduced Bash to?

Both? He might have gotten tired of Bash being so deeply in denial and in the closet.

[CherryMalotte]

I've so enjoyed this episode that I've watched it six times.  Shame on me though - it took the second time around and the damn near end of the episode before I realized that Rosalie was being played by Annabella Sciorra.  

[DianeDobbler]

I know a guy who did a rotation at NYU at the very start of the AIDs epidemic. Karposi's sarcoma and all kinds of sepsis and PCP, but there was a patient he was especially fond of who was just heartbreaking. Developed something with his eyes that sounded just horrific, like something out of the movie "The Fly." It was something only usually found in cats. An immune system is a precious thing.

Quote

But I really don't like Sam as an uncomfortable romantic interest. I just dread the idea of a relationship between him and Ruth. Each of them is enough of a mess on their own, without trying to be in a relationship with someone else who's a mess. There is no way it's ever going to be healthy for either of them, or for the show. As demonstrated here, with them almost kissing and the Ruth running off to sleep with Russell.

But that's the reason to DO it. Because it's a TV show. No TV writers go - nope, too messy, too unhealthy, too uncomfortable. Let's do calm and safe! I am also enjoying my discomfort and ambivalence about Marc Maron as a romantic interest. It's like I want to hide my eyes, but also want to see it. Usually when I'm in that state I come down on the side of no, but here I'm closer to yes. 

The real reason not to do them, at least not now, isn't about, oh, it's unhealthy for them as characters (although they fit, and might help each other) - but it's unhealthy for the writing. All the writing challenges Brie mentioned in doing it too early are completely valid and have sunk other shows. You don't want a show about 14 women to become about this couple. As Maron said, the Debbie thing is already something you can't go back from. If Sam and Ruth hooked up too soon, it might really torch the story arcs for the show, and throw it off center.

Edited July 16, 2018 by DianeDobbler

[Kel Varnsen]

On 6/30/2018 at 11:43 AM, Lady Calypso said:

Debbie and Bash make a surprisingly solid team. I really liked their scenes. But that end? That was clear as day as to where that's going. Poor Bash.

I didn't see it coming at all and thought it was a great and logical twist. When Bash got the call that was clearly not business I instantly figured his mom was dead. Also I have never really though much of Chris Lowell as an actor but he killed it in that last shot to the point where I totally felt terrible for him.

[Miles]

God damn Loch Ness monster!.. uhm I mean AIDS I always get those two confused. I guess it was inevitable with this being an 80s show set in the show business. But it always bums me out so much.

Now I'm wondering, is Bash so freaked out because he used to get it on with his friend/buttler or just because a very good friend died. I had wondered if he was gay earlier in the season, but then nothing came of it. But it seems like they are circling back around.

[Armchair Critic]

On 8/3/2018 at 10:53 AM, Miles said:

Now I'm wondering, is Bash so freaked out because he used to get it on with his friend/buttler or just because a very good friend died. I had wondered if he was gay earlier in the season, but then nothing came of it. But it seems like they are circling back around.

I am wondering if Bash was having sex with Florian and that was another reason for the look on his face at the end because he may have it too. I thought the caller would tell him to get checked but I guess this was the early days and the medical community didn't know that much about it.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

A+ for the music! Mr. Mister, Madonna, Human League, Genesis - every song was perfectly used.

I liked that Sam told Rosalie that the reason Justine listens to him now is because he's new and Justine hasn't heard him yelling at her for most of her life. He knows it's not because Justine loves him more than she loves her mom. I especially loved the advice he gave Justine which was essentially don't fuck up your life just to spite your mom and me. Heh, I also loved when he complained that Rosalie and Justine were loud and Ruth pointed out that HE is loud.

I really wish they hadn't gone there with Ruth and Sam, but I can't say that I'm surprised. I've been waiting for something to happen between them since the beginning of S1. I wish she hadn't run straight to Russell after that because he IS a nice guy and he deserves better than being the guy she ran to when she was running away from Sam.

Similarly, I saw the Rhonda/Cupcake wedding coming a mile away. I feel a little bit sorry for the poor guy though since he is obviously smitten with her and she clearly does not feel the same.

Hahaha, I totally love that Bash's great marketing plan was to copy what he saw in Muppets Take Manhattan.

I loved Florian in S1 so I've missed him this year. Finding out he died was terrible but realistic. AIDS was killing so many people and at a horrifying rate. Regardless of whether Bash was having a sexual relationship with Florian, we know that they've been friends since they were little kids so that alone would be enough to freak him out, especially because Bash is pretty young and not at the age where people your age die.

[paramitch]

I loved this episode, with the exception of the Ruth/Sam stuff, because I scream my outrage at the television every single time there's an attempt to create chemistry between the two. They're great actors, and I buy that Maron would have a massive crush on Ruth. I do not believe, on any level, that Ruth would fall for Sam. I just don't. Setting aside the cliche that he's decades older, this is a guy who is an absolute trainwreck. Yes, he has his occasionally genuinely sweet/funny moments. Maybe even 60% of the time. But the other 40%, he's a tone-deaf cokehead capable of pretty staggering cruelty and assholery.

This entire time, I've been so impressed with Ruth and Sam's friendship precisely because I thought they were selling a friendship, and as friends, each provides something wonderful for the other. I love them together when they're family. I do not, under any circumstances, want them to fuck. And the slow-dance scene here had me cursing. I just don't buy it.  I hate every single minute of it.

I just think it would be SO REFRESHING if this wasn't a fricking utterly predictable train-wreck romance. Them becoming family to each other would be lovely and believable. She'd have people in her life and wouldn't be alone (and would continue to find her gift for writing and performance with a great collaborator). He might finally get his shit together and get off the drugs and booze simply because he's doing work he's proud of again, and trying to be there for his daughter and friends.

Although I did crack the tiniest smile at Ruth sleeping on the couch with Sam yelling at Justine to turn the music down, going, "Ruthie's trying to sleep!" 

But... ugh.

On 6/30/2018 at 6:03 PM, ketose said:

The stuff with Debbie and Bash reminded me of the Comdex stuff from Halt and Catch Fire.

Me too! I was literally thinking this while watching them. They were just adorable together. I've liked Chris Lowell since his time as poor thankless Piz on "Veronica Mars," and I have to really give Lowell credit -- I not only love his work as the character Bash here individually, but  he also just makes everyone else better whenever he shares a scene with someone. So I love him no matter who he's with in the show -- whether poor Flor, Bash, or Debbie, or Carmen. 

On 6/30/2018 at 8:20 PM, kieyra said:

Love HACF. (Sense8 also did a similar setup with someone building fake buzz in the entertainment industry.)

Oh, that's right! Dani pulled the phone sleight-of-hand for Lito! (I still miss Sense8...)

On 7/4/2018 at 4:59 PM, Whimsy said:

Chris Lowell’s distraught face just killed me at the end. I thought he did an amazing job so I definitely felt the punch. 

It broke my heart. I thought it was a superb and quietly devastating moment. When the nurse says Florian has died, Chris Lowell does this absolutely incredible thing where it's like he's trying to hold his face together from sheer will, as if he's about to break into little pieces, and... it absolutely killed me. Lowell also does this thing in that scene where his eyes start darting around the room, as if he's somehow looking for safety. And then he tries to pull himself together. And then he does it again at the very end as the song swells. Just a beautiful if incredibly sad performance from him there.

On 7/6/2018 at 7:54 AM, Clanstarling said:

I was disappointed too - but you know, Marc Maron really sells it, so I guess I'll wait to see what they do. So far, imo, they haven't really made a false step in the show.

I teared up. That's a part of the 80's that is in no way nostalgic. It was, and still is, heartbreaking.

I was in my teens in the mid-80s and my aunt (who was very bohemian) tended to date guys who were either bisexual or who hadn't figured out they were gay yet (it was literally my aunt's type). They always remained friends, so I had a bunch of wonderful gay uncles in my teens and then within a few years... everyone had died. All of them but one.

On 7/6/2018 at 1:38 PM, dubbel zout said:

They could try to be a couple and fail—that's also real life. Jerry and Elaine were platonic after their brief sex rekindling ("Sex, to save the relationship!"), and it certainly didn't wreck Seinfeld. It's all about the writing, as always.

My respect for this show would go up 10000% if Ruth sleeps with Sam and it is clearly shown to be, and realized to be, a colossal mistake by both of them. I don't think that will happen but I'd love to be wrong.

On 7/10/2018 at 7:21 AM, Danny Franks said:

But I really don't like Sam as an uncomfortable romantic interest. I just dread the idea of a relationship between him and Ruth. Each of them is enough of a mess on their own, without trying to be in a relationship with someone else who's a mess. There is no way it's ever going to be healthy for either of them, or for the show. As demonstrated here, with them almost kissing and the Ruth running off to sleep with Russell.

Oh, you and me both. I hate it. I'm absolutely against it and am really unhappy with the show for going to such a cliched and predictable well. In a way, it was worse for me because of the scenes between Rosalie and Sam and Ruth unintentionally underlined the disparities of the situation -- Maron is 55, Sciorra is 57, and Brie is 34, but in classic film language it was obviously Brie who was supposed to be the romantic fit for Maron, and it absolutely drives me nuts. And skeeves me out. And makes me tired.

I mean, this show is written and directed by a female-heavy staff, and with an overwhelmingly female cast, but of course even here, Ruth is required to fall for the aging cokehead asshole who has (on several occasions) treated her and her costars like absolute crap, all while staring at him like he's everything she ever wanted... gah. I can't. It was so much better and lovelier when I just saw them as friends who became family to one another.

On 8/26/2018 at 5:20 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

A+ for the music! Mr. Mister, Madonna, Human League, Genesis - every song was perfectly used.

I liked that Sam told Rosalie that the reason Justine listens to him now is because he's new and Justine hasn't heard him yelling at her for most of her life. He knows it's not because Justine loves him more than she loves her mom. I especially loved the advice he gave Justine which was essentially don't fuck up your life just to spite your mom and me. Heh, I also loved when he complained that Rosalie and Justine were loud and Ruth pointed out that HE is loud.

I really wish they hadn't gone there with Ruth and Sam, but I can't say that I'm surprised. I've been waiting for something to happen between them since the beginning of S1. I wish she hadn't run straight to Russell after that because he IS a nice guy and he deserves better than being the guy she ran to when she was running away from Sam.

Similarly, I saw the Rhonda/Cupcake wedding coming a mile away. I feel a little bit sorry for the poor guy though since he is obviously smitten with her and she clearly does not feel the same.

Hahaha, I totally love that Bash's great marketing plan was to copy what he saw in Muppets Take Manhattan.

I loved Florian in S1 so I've missed him this year. Finding out he died was terrible but realistic. AIDS was killing so many people and at a horrifying rate. Regardless of whether Bash was having a sexual relationship with Florian, we know that they've been friends since they were little kids so that alone would be enough to freak him out, especially because Bash is pretty young and not at the age where people your age die.

Kudos to your whole post. I tried to post a longer answer but the Internet ate it. Suffice it to say -- I hope Arthie and Yolanda get together (I've been shipping them since that gorgeous dance), I hope Bash has the strength to come out, even if just to himself. And I hope Ruth gets her shit together and realizes that a romance with Sam would be a mistake of earth-shattering proportions.

[Clanstarling]

7 hours ago, paramitch said:

I was in my teens in the mid-80s and my aunt (who was very bohemian) tended to date guys who were either bisexual or who hadn't figured out they were gay yet (it was literally my aunt's type). They always remained friends, so I had a bunch of wonderful gay uncles in my teens and then within a few years... everyone had died. All of them but one.

My connection to that scourge was more a part of living in the Bay Area and hearing a lot about it - and it broke my heart from a distance. I can't imagine how hard it was for those directly involved. I'm so sorry you lost so many people in your youth.

[paramitch]

On 10/26/2018 at 6:38 AM, Clanstarling said:

My connection to that scourge was more a part of living in the Bay Area and hearing a lot about it - and it broke my heart from a distance. I can't imagine how hard it was for those directly involved. I'm so sorry you lost so many people in your youth.

Oh, thank you -- and I'm so sorry for what you went through as well. It was a horrible time. It was even worse when I grew up and realized how terribly our own government had let them down.

[HollyG]

On 7/9/2018 at 6:10 AM, Clanstarling said:

To be fair, it was a brand new disease, and it took a long time to discover the ins and outs of it. I remember the first reports of a "gay cancer" in the late 70's, I think (can't quite remember) and how the information changed fairly regularly for years on how and who it infected.

That's the way I remember it too. I knew someone that was diagnosed in '77. That's exactly what he called it.... the gay cancer. No one had ever heard of it back then... no treatment, etc. It was scary as hell.

[aradia22]

Gregory is back!

Bash seeing Muppets take Manhattan 4 times with Florian as research for his career in entertainment... I just. Some of the lines on this show...

Stop it, Glow. I'm not interested in Ruth and Sam as a couple.

OH MY GOD, Florian! What is this Bury Your Gays nonsense? If they wanted to include an AIDS storyline there were better ways of doing it.