S08.E27: Thirsty

[lezlers]

On ‎7‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 10:25 AM, Bridget said:

I don’t disagree with you or @Pepper Mostly about finding out the gender before the birth, but I also don’t have any human children of my own. That said, my fur baby, Hamish, did turn 7 yesterday. 

My mom once said that there are so few positive surprises that one has to look forward to in life, that finding out the gender of your baby at birth (babies in her case; I’m a twin) is one of them. 

One of my mentors was pregnant with baby #2 during my credential program. She and her husband opted to wait until the baby was born to find out the gender. It made much more sense when she explained it to us, so please forgive me if the wording is funky. She explained their reasoning as follows: “For the entire nine months, the pregnancy is about the mom. The woman is the one who gets to let the world in on the secret of her being pregnant. She gets to see how happy people are for her, see the tears, receive the hugs and feel the love. Her husband/boyfriend/partner isn’t always there to see or feel the insane joy in telling people and getting such huge reactions. He is a part of this too, but the father-to-be isn’t pregnant, so people usually don’t see the plethora of emotions that he’s feeling too, whether it’s baby #1 or baby #3. However, once the baby is born, the dad gets to go out into the waiting area and announce some big news himself, with ‘it’s a ____________!’ ”

I’ve also been to many baby showers and typically when the gender is known, the only thing the mother-to-be receives is clothing. Lots and lots of pink or blue clothing, always in small sizes, or other ridiculous items that, to be candid, won't be of use at all. A friend of mine was due in August and at her baby shower, she received a baby girl's bikini, size 0-3 months. Yes. Because all new babies belong poolside or at the beach.   

The showers I've attended for mothers-to-be who don’t know their baby's gender get the baby basics that they need at their shower. That’s the perfect time for 2-3 guests to go in together on the stroller, baby monitor, musical play mat/activity center or other higher priced item that would normally be too expensive for one guest. (For the record, I would immediately disown any friend who wanted a $150 Boppy, a $300 car seat or anything crazy like that.) 

One of my closest friends is expecting her 1st baby at the end of September and will be a single mom (by choice). She’s an elementary school teacher, so I know her site will throw her a shower in addition to the one her sister will throw. I’ve calmly begged her not to share the gender with many people because she is someone who will need the basics, like hooded towels, a breast pump, baby audio monitor and a car seat, not a closet full of frilly clothes for her unborn baby girl.

 

I can't imagine someone electing to forgo buying an expectant mom a stroller and instead buying her a pink onesie because she knows what sex the baby is going to be.  And there are plenty of gender neutral clothing choices out there. 

People like to find out early because 1. they don't want to wait and 2. they want to be able to plan: décor for the nursery, colored gear, ect.    I really don't think it has anything to do with people not buying necessities as gifts for a shower because they'd rather buy a pink or a blue outfit.  Like "well I WAS going to buy her this $200 stroller, but now that I know she's having a girl, I'm going to get her this $20 pink tutu instead!"  I just can't see it.

Not trying to be combative, that reasoning just doesn't make a lot of logical sense to me.

On ‎7‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 1:31 PM, Maharincess said:

I put my pain medicine in a small container when I leave the house but I always have me paperwork for the prescriptions with me.  I think that's fine, as long as I have proof that they're mine, I don't see a problem. 

I don't think it's a problem.  I've been a public defender for 10+ years and have not seen a single person ever charged with not having their prescription pills in a proper container.  I've had people charged with having a controlled substance without a prescription, but once they came to court with their prescription the case was immediately dismissed.  In fact, there's not even a criminal code section I'm aware of (in my state) that addresses this. 

I've got three herniated discs in my back and have been receiving a tramadol prescription for a couple years.  I just got an email from my doctor yesterday saying I need to come in and sign an "opiate contract" and be monitored now, two years in.  So much for tramadol not being a "hard" pill.  Gah.

Edited July 7, 2018 by lezlers

[Maharincess]

6 minutes ago, lezlers said:

I can't imagine someone electing to forgo buying an expectant mom a stroller and instead buying her a pink onesie because she knows what sex the baby is going to be.  And there are plenty of gender neutral clothing choices out there. 

People like to find out early because 1. they don't want to wait and 2. they want to be able to plan: décor for the nursery, colored gear, ect.    I really don't think it has anything to do with people not buying necessities as gifts for a shower because they'd rather buy a pink or a blue outfit.  

Not trying to be combative, that reasoning just doesn't make a lot of logical sense to me.

I don't think it's a problem.  I've been a public defender for 10+ years and have not seen a single person ever charged with not having their prescription pills in a proper container.  I've had people charged with having a controlled substance without a prescription, but once they came to court with their prescription the case was immediately dismissed.  In fact, there's not even a criminal code section I'm aware of (in my state) that addresses this. 

I've got three herniated discs in my back and have been receiving a tramadol prescription for a couple years.  I just got an email from my doctor yesterday saying I need to come in and sign an "opiate contract" and be monitored now, two years in.  So much for tramadol not being a "hard" pill.  Gah.

Be careful.  Tramadol has the WORST and longest withdrawals than any other pain medicine.  I'm in a couple of pain groups and I've heard horror stories.  I refused to take it.  

[lezlers]

1 hour ago, Maharincess said:

Be careful.  Tramadol has the WORST and longest withdrawals than any other pain medicine.  I'm in a couple of pain groups and I've heard horror stories.  I refused to take it.  

Thanks.  I've heard that too.   30 50mg tablets last me a month and I don't take it every day so I'm not in one of the risk groups.  The problems tend to start when you're taking 200+mg doses for long periods of time.  I'm well under that.   I regularly go weeks at a time without taking any and haven't experienced any withdrawals or anything like that, especially after discovering Kratom.  :)  

Chronic pain is a real bitch.

[Maharincess]

Just now, lezlers said:

Thanks.  I've heard that too.   30 50mg tablets last me a month and I don't take it every day so I'm not in one of the risk groups.  The problems tend to start when you're taking 200+mg doses for long periods of time.  I'm well under that.   I regularly go weeks at a time without taking any and haven't experienced any withdrawals or anything like that, especially after discovering Kratom.  :)  

Chronic pain is a real bitch.

It really is. Chronic intractable pain is horrible.  I take ms contin. 

[Calm81]

44 minutes ago, lezlers said:

Thanks.  I've heard that too.   30 50mg tablets last me a month and I don't take it every day so I'm not in one of the risk groups.  The problems tend to start when you're taking 200+mg doses for long periods of time.  I'm well under that.   I regularly go weeks at a time without taking any and haven't experienced any withdrawals or anything like that, especially after discovering Kratom.  :)  

Chronic pain is a real bitch.

Kratom is a life saver!!!!!

[JAndy]

On 7/5/2018 at 6:22 AM, IDreamofJoaquin said:

I like Chelsea's segment and I was looking forward to seeing Cole's reaction.  Them all hugging was so sweet.  That being said I just hate the new blood test that can tell you what you are having early on.  It serves it's purpose for many medical issues but don't people want the thrill of being surprised anymore?  Even finding out at week 18 you have plenty of time. I enjoyed seeing the sonogram and trying to guess what gender my children were.  I'm too much of a planner to go through my pregnancy and not know the gender until the baby comes out but if I had more money and could buy things on a whim I would have done this!! Well, that's just me. 

I’m not the biggest fan of surprises and if i could have found out at conception what I was having, I would have. I did the blood test - not just for gender but was an added bonus. 

I know people say finding out at birth is the biggest surprise ever, but I just wanted to know. It was a surprise when I found out at 12 weeks too. Plus there are so many other things to be surprised at during birth - I liked the little bit of “control” I felt knowing the gender. I am also not a fan of gender neutral clothing

Also at my baby shower I didn’t just get cute pink clothes I got all of the essentials that were on my registry. Stroller, car seat, etc. 

[Maharincess]

22 minutes ago, Calm81 said:

Kratom is a life saver!!!!!

Yes it is. It sucks that they're trying to ban it. It helps so many people. I like to give my system a rest from the narcotics so I'll take kratom for a week every couple of months. 

[geauxaway]

Bottom line, if you are not a pill head junkie and can back up your scrips, you should be OK if ever encountered and searched.  My kiddo is on concerta and it’s all I can do to get those scrips from the doctor office to the pharmacy stat, and not have them be on my person (I’m a little paranoid that way.  People steal shit).  BUT.  A classic junkie go to move is the “oh I didn’t know” excuse.  It’s almost laughable to me because I served time (my offense was non narcotic related) with a shit ton of pill heads and that was always the “reason” they got busted.  It was never their fault and they thought they were wronged.  If you have a valid scrip it can be tracked.  It sucks for legit people that do need the meds.  I got my kid handed to me with 2 pills left on a Wednesday.  He was crawling the walls in the urgent care when I tried to get 4 pills to get me to Monday.  I get where they are coming from but it was awful.  To bring it back on topic, give your kids their meds DF!

[lezlers]

13 hours ago, Maharincess said:

Yes it is. It sucks that they're trying to ban it. It helps so many people. I like to give my system a rest from the narcotics so I'll take kratom for a week every couple of months. 

I was heartbroken to see them trying to ban it so shortly after discovering this miracle plant (thanks to you, my friend.)  The DEA ruins EVERYTHING.  Time to start stocking up.

[Christina87]

Just now catching up! Been out of town for two weeks. ?

I'd heard about the "pieces of s***" comment before I watched, and it is disturbing, but I've got to admit, I was laughing SOOOOO hard when I saw that! Maybe I am immature, but I was guffawing, and rewound it to see it again. It's troubling that he is saying that, and I wish he could put his frustrations with them into better, more productive words, but he's not wrong. I've always gotten the feeling that jace is behind other kids his age verbally, and maybe he doesn't know another way to express his feelings. Both Barb and Jenelle have used bad language in front of him so much that I'm not surprised he turns to it. I also don't think that Barb is necessarily in the right grilling him about Kaiser being in daycare and how bad it is, but she's not wrong. As much as I don't approve of what she's saying in general, I'm torn because I am glad she's conveying to him that the situation is not NORMAL. Jace doesn't know any different, and he needs to see that two stay in bed parents with kids in daycare is not normal. Treating people like UBT treats Kaiser is not normal. Being as disengaged as both parents are is far from normal, too. He sees these things and obviously has negative and anxious feelings about them. I'm glad Barb is conveying to him that he's right to feel that something's off. I just wish she would do it more calmly, but I do think she has been working on her weaknesses in therapy. 

Javi is such a piece of work! Going on kail's podcast was the most ridiculous thing ever. How delusional is Kail, for one thing, to think everyone is sooooo enamored with her that they want to listen to a radio show about her? And even if that is true, what message is that sending? Most teen moms can't make money this way. I'd love to see Kail using her college degree to work a "real" job. That would be the real success story!

and where do we even start with bri? Why is she surprised that someone she has broken up with isn't nterested in wiping her butt after surgery? She is always so nasty looking, too. When she went out to eat with her friend, would it have killed her to wash her face and worn something other than a tattered sweatshirt? Her friend actually looked decent. I'm not saying you have to wear a formal ball gown every time you set foot out of the house; in fact, I often run errands in t-shirts and athletic shorts, with my hair thrown up. However, I look neat and hygenic, and take it up at least a level while dining out. There's a difference between going to Walmart for a carton of eggs and grossing out your friend at a restaurant. And the way she said she wanted to eat before surgery...girl, has it ever occurred to you to diet so you won't need surgery? I also hate the way she's always twirling that greasy lock of hair that doesn't quite fit in her ponytail. Chelsea's hair is often messy, but it doesn't squick me out as much!

i like seeing Leah and Jeremy coparent. Obviously they didn't get back together, but I really hope they can continue doing things with just the three of them for addy's sake. She deserves that! Her sisters have a family atmosphere at Corey's, and it's nice that addy can have it, too. I hope they can keep getting along for things like joint birthday parties, so she can feel she has a village like the twins do. 

I'm liking Chelsea a lot more this season! She seems less guarded this season to me, by a lot, and like a fun person to be around. I think she seems more mature. Did anyone catch in one of her voice overs when she used her real voice, with no trace of baby talk? I do agree, though, that she needs a hobby. I'm not even saying something like volunteering for four hours a day somewhere. Even just painting, or showing her baking and cooking regularly (those cupcakes looked awesome!) would go a long way to making her look more multifaceted. However, the jury's still out for me on whether she really has matured. Literally everything is perfect for her right now, so why shouldn't she be happy and less guarded? It's like when my mom goes to the wedding of a former mean girl and says, "she seemed nice at her wedding!" Well, duh. Who wouldn't be happy and bubbly on the happiest day of their life, when everything is going great for them? I'll make my decision when I see her working a nine to five job and giving up luxuries (not that she uses luxuries to the same extent as the others, but she has never had to differentiate between a want and a need). Still, she has always annoyed me, but I find her way more watchable this season, and see her going in a positive direction. 

Edited July 8, 2018 by Christina87

[IDreamofJoaquin]

On 7/5/2018 at 6:39 AM, Pepper Mostly said:

But its just a question of when you get the surprise, isn't it? You can opt to be surprised at the birth, or you can be surprised earlier. Either way, its a surprise.

But the rest of my comment wasn't in there.  I said I liked looking at the sonogram and guessing.  It's just my opinion and choice and I also stated that it was just me and understood others think differently.  I feel like my comment created a lot of defensiveness. I was generally curious......do people not like to look at the sonogram and guess anymore?  

Edited July 10, 2018 by IDreamofJoaquin

[IDreamofJoaquin]

On 7/5/2018 at 11:17 AM, Fosca said:

Didn't Barb actually say that she didn't want to get close to Kaiser because she knew Jenelle would use her attachment to him as a weapon?  I'd be surprised if she's ever held Ensley; I'm hoping that Ensley 1. being a girl and 2. being UBT's biological child will protect her at least somewhat, as was said above.

I don't remember her saying this but I also don't remember every segment. That makes a lot of sense.  That is so sad! It is her grandchild.  That was my initial point.  Will Ensley be protected because she is a girl and UBT's biological child?  We always comment on how scared shitless Maryssa (spell?) looks. 

Edited July 10, 2018 by IDreamofJoaquin

[Fosca]

7 hours ago, IDreamofJoaquin said:

I don't remember her saying this but I also don't remember every segment. That makes a lot of sense.  That is so sad! It is her grandchild.  That was my initial point.  Will Ensley be protected because she is a girl and UBT's biological child?  We always comment on how scared shitless Maryssa (spell?) looks. 

It's possible that Maryssa, being old enough to understand how her father treats Kaiser (and others), is worried that she's next.  He may not have touched her, but even so she could be scared.  Ensley has a few years yet before she gets that level of comprehension.

[akr]

3 hours ago, Fosca said:

It's possible that Maryssa, being old enough to understand how her father treats Kaiser (and others), is worried that she's next.  He may not have touched her, but even so she could be scared.  Ensley has a few years yet before she gets that level of comprehension.

More likely she's stuck between not liking what she sees going on around her and not feeling safe speaking up about it or otherwise following her conscience (which doesn't necessarily mean fearing for her physical safety, - just being on the outs when you're a child is scary enough). The moral bind a kid like that can be in, even if they're not themselves the target, can really do a number on them. Either they decide to blame the victim or they eat away at themselves for not doing more to make things better.  

Edited July 10, 2018 by akr

[SheTalksShit]

On 7/4/2018 at 3:20 PM, Scarlett45 said:

My god daughter who’s 3, loves toilet trouble and asked for it in her Easter basket. I said she had the humor of an 8yrs old boy and I was right. So cute. 

 

Javi has so many emotional issues I don’t even know where to start. I think he did know (because he doesn’t have a low iq) that Briana wasn’t really into him and she would never move to DE. Granted if this was ANYONE but Briana I wouldn’t expect a Mom of 2 to pack up and relocate her children away from HER support system to be with a guy without a least a year of serious dating AND an engagement ring AND a date set. But because it’s Briana she will never leave the comfort of her Mom, I just don’t want her to string another decent guy with a Capt Save a Ho complex along. 

Like a fair number of people Javi doesn’t know how to be single. If he’s not living a heteronormative lifestyle he doesn’t know what to do with himself hence getting another woman pregnant so quickly (Do we know anything about her? Is she “normal” with a job etc? Or does she want on the gravy train of MTV?)

 

Chelsea and Cole are cute. As far as Chelsea deciding when to announce her pregnancy I think that’s a personal choice. IMO the idea of not announcing until the “threat” of miscarriage is over adds to the idea that miscarriage is shameful, something to be hidden- although it’s changing now so many women didn’t have support after a miscarriage because no one knew they were pregnant and they didn’t have anyone in their life who talked about it happening to them. Again I just think that’s something a woman has to decide for herself. 

Leah, Leah, Leah.....she and Jeremy should be done for good.

Fuck Janelle. 

You don’t have to have a low IQ to make stupid decisions in relationships and be delusional about it. 

I think Javi is a serial-monogamist. He’s also in the military, where ppl move pretty fast with the whole getting married and starting a family thing. Comes with lots of benefits. 

[akr]

There's nothing wrong with serial monogamy per se, so long as each relationship is an actual relationship, as opposed to the enactment of the idea of a relationship.  Javi doesn't appear to care to even figure out who the other person is, so long as there is someone allowing him to fill the role of boyfriend/husband/father - and then he gets irritated if that person doesn't slot into his idea of what the other person is supposed to be.  It's just supposed to work because he is, in his own mind, being a good guy. 

[heatherchandler]

On 7/6/2018 at 8:45 PM, lezlers said:

Thanks.  I've heard that too.   30 50mg tablets last me a month and I don't take it every day so I'm not in one of the risk groups.  The problems tend to start when you're taking 200+mg doses for long periods of time.  I'm well under that.   I regularly go weeks at a time without taking any and haven't experienced any withdrawals or anything like that, especially after discovering Kratom.  :)  

Chronic pain is a real bitch.

Kratom is a wonder drug.

Agreed about chronic pain!

 

On 7/6/2018 at 9:53 PM, Maharincess said:

Yes it is. It sucks that they're trying to ban it. It helps so many people. I like to give my system a rest from the narcotics so I'll take kratom for a week every couple of months. 

I do the same thing!  In fact I am going through my kratom week right now.  

Has there been any more talk of a ban?

[druzy]

3 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

I do the same thing!  In fact I am going through my kratom week right now.  

Has there been any more talk of a ban?

This site, American Kratom Association, has the latest information on Kratom.

Kratom Legality Map

[heatherchandler]

3 hours ago, druzy said:

This site, American Kratom Association, has the latest information on Kratom.

Kratom Legality Map

Thank you for this!!

[FozzyBear]

On 7/4/2018 at 2:24 PM, Mothra said:

You know what?  I don't know why Jenelle fights to hard to keep custody of Kaiser or to have more contact with Jace.  She likes them, I guess--or at least Jace, since he's cool-looking, but I'm not sure she loves them as a mother loves her children.  I think maybe it's a matter of pride, of not being publicly painted as unfit, more than any real desire to take care of her children.  I pity Kaiser--whose name I've seen Jenelle misspell as "Kiser" in some tweets, btw--because while he's safer away from Jenelle and UBT, no one is cuddling him or telling him he's the best boy ever or any of the other stuff mothers do, and that's going to have bad effects on his emotional growth.  He is not learning (unless this is some extraordinary daycare) how to show love, deep, unconditional love, or how even to tolerate behaviors you don't like in people you love.  He's missing out on a whole litany of emotional milestones, and they are important.  I predict lots of trouble for this little guy.

And watching Jace this last episode, for the first time I felt that it's very, very wrong to have this little boy on tv.  He is suffering, and shame on MTV for making money off it.  Barb should step up here and get him off the show.  He needs to live quietly, in a stable home with his grandmother, without any interference from his crazy bitch mother or her abusive husband.  This kid is melting down in public, and it's not fair.

I have often wondered if Janelle would have any sort of custody of her kids without the show. I agree she seems to like them in the distant way you enjoy seeing a friend’s kids once or twice a year. They’re cute and entertaining for an hour or so, but she never seems deeply connected to them. She doesn’t ever seem to worry about them or wonder about them or think about them as anything other then props. If she didn’t have a camera following her around while she tries to create this weird American Horror Story: Yours, Mine, and Ours, I really think she would have drifted away from all of her kids long ago. There really is something deeply wrong with her.

[Mothra]

On 11/5/2018 at 1:23 AM, FozzyBear said:

There really is something deeply wrong with her.

In a nutshell.

[FairyDusted]

4 hours ago, Mothra said:

In a nutshell.

At the bottom of the sinking SheShed.

[Fosca]

On 11/5/2018 at 1:23 AM, FozzyBear said:

American Horror Story: Yours, Mine, and Ours

This is brilliant.  And spot-on.  

[FozzyBear]

22 hours ago, Mothra said:

In a nutshell.

Right? I know saying Janelle has something wrong with her is an understatement, but jeez...

Chelsea is basic as they come but she seems nice enough and she seems to love her kids and really try to do the best thing for them.

Leah is pretty dense and seems to have some leanings toward thrill seeking and addictive behaviors, but I think she means well most of the time. And I have no doubt she loves her kids. We’ve seen this season that with the right supports she does ok. 

Kali has more baggage then American Airlines and a really unpleasant personality to boot, but I think she wants a good life for her kids and has a reasonable idea of what a good life is. Her kids are always clean, dressed, taken care of. I think she’ll continue to become her mom by getting these things through low key grifting, but I do think she cares for her kids and will spend her ill gotten gains on her kids.

Janelle is just another story all together. I don’t think she loves anyone (including David) except in a performative way that gets her attention. In a weird way I think the show keeps her in check a little since she’s so determined to present an image on camera, but just a little. Once the MTV crew leaves I imagine the light goes out in her eyes. I can imagine her taking care of Ensly in front of the camera and then leaving Ensly alone on the living room floor so she can go out to dinner as soon as the camera crew leaves. I doubt she would even wonder if it’s wrong. She’s scary. I don’t know if it’s nature, nurture, or something else but I think she’s a psychopath.

Edited November 7, 2018 by FozzyBear

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

On 11/5/2018 at 12:23 AM, FozzyBear said:

There really is something deeply wrong with her.

Narcissistic personality disorder co-morbid with borderline personality disorder, with a possible side of psychopathy

- My totally unqualified-but-I-took-three-psych-classes-as-an-undergrad-and-follow-true-crime armchair psychologist opinion (I'm almost as qualified as the internist MD we know as Dr. Drew and all...)

 

I'd love to see a scan of Jenelle's brain in an exercise like this (it looked at brains in people who lack empathy/were thought to be psychopaths):

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-empathic-brain/201307/inside-the-mind-psychopath-empathic-not-always

[HeySandyStrange]

51 minutes ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

Narcissistic personality disorder co-morbid with borderline personality disorder, with a possible side of psychopathy

- My totally unqualified-but-I-took-three-psych-classes-as-an-undergrad-and-follow-true-crime armchair psychologist opinion (I'm almost as qualified as the internist MD we know as Dr. Drew and all...)

 

I'd love to see a scan of Jenelle's brain in an exercise like this (it looked at brains in people who lack empathy/were thought to be psychopaths):

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-empathic-brain/201307/inside-the-mind-psychopath-empathic-not-always

I’m about to be a proud recipient on a Bachelor’s of Psychology, so in my very expert opinion, I agree that Jenelle has narcissistic, borderline, and psychopathic traits. I’ve thought that for years. She’s always been emotionally shallow, self-focused, and manipulative; I think the only real emotions she has are for herself, and even then she tries to manipulate others with them. 

Brain scans are fascinating. I’d love to see Jenelle’s, I’ll bet a shiny penny her brain patterns would be similar to a psychopaths.

[guilfoyleatpp]

12 minutes ago, HeySandyStrange said:

I’m about to be a proud recipient on a Bachelor’s of Psychology, so in my very expert opinion, I agree that Jenelle has narcissistic, borderline, and psychopathic traits. I’ve thought that for years. She’s always been emotionally shallow, self-focused, and manipulative; I think the only real emotions she has are for herself, and even then she tries to manipulate others with them. 

Brain scans are fascinating. I’d love to see Jenelle’s, I’ll bet a shiny penny her brain patterns would be similar to a psychopaths.

someone should start messaging her that they give good recovery drugs after brain scans and maybe she'll do one. 

[Mothra]

15 hours ago, FozzyBear said:

Janelle is just another story all together. I don’t think she loves anyone (including David) except in a performative way that gets her attention. In a weird way I think the show keeps her in check a little since she’s so determined to present an image on camera, but just a little. Once the MTV crew leaves I imagine the light goes out in her eyes. I can imagine her taking care of Ensly in front of the camera and then leaving Ensly alone on the living room floor so she can go out to dinner as soon as the camera crew leaves. I doubt she would even wonder if it’s wrong. She’s scary. I don’t know if it’s nature, nurture, or something else but I think she’s a psychopath.

Yes.  The other moms do questionable, stupid, irresponsibly gut-clenching stuff, maybe even endangering their children, but what's wrong with them (including Kailyn, who I think is the worst person in the world) seems *exterior* somehow:  something they *do* as opposed to something they *are*.  In Jenelle's case, the actions we cringe at don't seem to be rooted in youth or stupidity or even addiction or fame whoredom, but in genuine pathology.  I don't know if she's a psychopath, but I agree that she's a psycho-something.  And I don't know if it's something that can be fixed.  Pray for Kaiser; I don't think UBT will let anything bad happen to his own spawn.

[Scarlett45]

On 11/6/2018 at 11:32 PM, FozzyBear said:

Right? I know saying Janelle has something wrong with her is an understatement, but jeez...

Chelsea is basic as they come but she seems nice enough and she seems to love her kids and really try to do the best thing for them.

Leah is pretty dense and seems to have some leanings toward thrill seeking and addictive behaviors, but I think she means well most of the time. And I have no doubt she loves her kids. We’ve seen this season that with the right supports she does ok. 

Kali has more baggage then American Airlines and a really unpleasant personality to boot, but I think she wants a good life for her kids and has a reasonable idea of what a good life is. Her kids are always clean, dressed, taken care of. I think she’ll continue to become her mom by getting these things through low key grifting, but I do think she cares for her kids and will spend her ill gotten gains on her kids.

Janelle is just another story all together. I don’t think she loves anyone (including David) except in a performative way that gets her attention. In a weird way I think the show keeps her in check a little since she’s so determined to present an image on camera, but just a little. Once the MTV crew leaves I imagine the light goes out in her eyes. I can imagine her taking care of Ensly in front of the camera and then leaving Ensly alone on the living room floor so she can go out to dinner as soon as the camera crew leaves. I doubt she would even wonder if it’s wrong. She’s scary. I don’t know if it’s nature, nurture, or something else but I think she’s a psychopath.

I agree with your entire post. The other girls all have a certain degree of empathy and understanding towards other humans. Kailyn who is incredibly self centered would 1. Never let anyone hurt her sons, or 2. Would allow them to go without their basic needs. With Jenelle I could see the kids starving because she was in a drug haze. I think she only keeps the kids around because of the show. Without the show she’d be the woman with 5 kids, 5 different dads, and each child being raised by a grandparent because like attracts like (so the chances of Jenelle having a kid with a decent guy is very low).