S04.E08: No One's Gone

[raven]

Quote

Madison fights to preserve the life she worked so hard to build; Morgan tries to do the right thing.

 

[Shriekingeel]

This show. They present an intriguing S4 premiere that looks to revitalize the series with new characters. And then. And then. 

 

They use this ridiculous, impossible-to-follow narrative structure that manages to kill any interest I had in these characters. Add generous helpings of Idiot Plot wherein the protagonists distrust and fight the other protagonists, while trusting people they shouldn’t trust. Oh, and let’s take the most talented actor in the cast and make him a medical invalid the last two episodes, essentially giving him nothing to do. 

 

I would support a five year ban on the use of all flashbacks and flash forwards by  television writers.

[For Cereals]

Charlie would NOT get a Cup O Noodles

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Guess that will have to do, would've preferred an on camera death like Nick.

 

John Dorie LIVES!!   

Just now, For Cereals said:

Charlie would NOT get a Cup O Noodles

Should've gotten a Cap busted in her skull.

[SoSueMe]

2 minutes ago, Shriekingeel said:

This show. They present an intriguing S4 premiere that looks to revitalize the series with new characters. And then. And then. 

 

They use this ridiculous, impossible-to-follow narrative structure that manages to kill any interest I had in these characters. Add generous helpings of Idiot Plot wherein the protagonists distrust and fight the other protagonists, while trusting people they shouldn’t trust. Oh, and let’s take the most talented actor in the cast and make him a medical invalid the last two episodes, essentially giving him nothing to do. 

 

I would support a five year ban on the use of all flashbacks and flash forwards by  television writers.

I feel your pain.

This show has started to define hate-watching for me. I come to the forum for the snark :) 

Oh yeah, John Dorie lives! There's that :)

Thanks guys for the fun.

[TVFan17]

Even though we didn't actually see Madison die and she might have somehow survived, I was disappointed in that supposed death scene, with all of the extremely dramatic camera work.   We already knew or know that she would give up her life for her kids -- what's the big shock in that?  -- but I would have preferred her to (possibly) die in some other way.   I don't know.  I guess I just thought it was a stupid ending to the first half of the season.

And not only am I sick of Alicia, but I am getting tired of Luciana too, for some reason.  

[DixonVixen2359]

I was expecting to find out Naomi had given weapons to the Vultures or some other huge revelation to explain why Alicia was trying to kill her. Instead we find out that Naomi's only crime was  running for her life.

Nick and Alicia are the buffoons that contributed to this mess...Madison and company desperately tried to clear a path for them. Why not crank the volume on their vehicle's radio and lead some walkers away? Even my man Eugene was able to figure that out! 

Still waiting to hear about what happened to Daniel! Are we supposed to forget that the top badass on thus show ever existed?

Thanks for the chat, until the mid-season premiere. Goodnight everyone

Edited June 11, 2018 by DixonVixen2359

[raven]

Eh, the timelines didn't bug me and they're caught up now, unless they go back to explain how Madison got separated from Strand and everyone else after the dam.  She pulled everyone from the water so they must have been together.

Alicia's hate for Naomi was over the top, with no real explanation about what made her act like that.  It would have made more sense to have Naomi/June actually be working with the Vultures or something; we know Mel didn't want to take the stadium down, she could have been a dissenting voice as well.  Instead she was just a random person trying to survive so LET'S BLAME HER FOR EVERYTHING.

But hey, John Dorie lives yay :)

Quote

Nick and Alicia are the buffoons that contributed to this mess.

Ugh, the stupidness of them just sitting in the car doing nothing cannot be overstated.  We even saw Strand's wanna be boyfriend sitting in a car doing nothing except yelling, why??? 

I totally think Madison is alive.

[patty1h]

I cared less and less as this season dragged on and didn't really give a crap about Nick dying or Madison now.  It didn't help that I couldn't keep the timelines straight to save my life and my confusion turned to disinterest.  I like Strand and Morgan but have no interest in the Alicia and Dharma show.  Sayonara FTWD.

[maystone]

Well, I'm sorry that Madison is gone, and I say that knowing that I'm very much in the minority on that, but I think it will work out better for the story going forward. My big "Oh hell no!" is that Charlie is still around. No kids, OK? And the kid actress is not very good, which makes it even worse.

At least it looks as if the last half of the season will be one timeline, so there's that. I really like Morgan, June, and John; the other three have some work ahead of them to overcome the idiotic revenge quest they were given, but I'll be cautiously optimistic. Just no to Charlie.

[econ07]

That ending sequence ladies and gentlemen is how you cut down on production costs.

... can't believe the Naomi hate by Madison's family was based on nothing ... not even a misunderstanding.  Seems like an "Our bad Naomi." should not suffice.

[candall]

Last (unpublished) comment from the Live Chat thread:

And now Chris Hardwick has to keep his Madison Mania dialed up to 11 for an extra hour.   He's probably backstage mainlining Red Bull.

[For Cereals]

I mean she could’ve given them the slip.  Wasn’t difficult...they weren’t all that.

[laschifosavita]

That Mountain Goats song was a harsh choice.  I guess Madison's love for her children led her to do a lot of destructive things, but it's kind of brutal to highlight that aspect of the character when she's giving up her life so her family can survive.  Unless the song was referring to Alicia and the others?  It isn't where my mind went first since they're ignoring their massive overreaction to Naomi/June, but it fits better.  I am thinking more about this than I did anything else this season, so I guess the choice accomplished something.

[candall]

Are these the same writers as the Mothership?  I feel grateful to them for sparing Glenn, once upon a time, and if that means Madison ultimately claws her way out of a handy magic foxhole, okay. 

 

Maybe she suddenly remembered to smear some walker goo on her face and became invisible!  (Crazy how no one ever remembers that trick.)

Edited June 11, 2018 by candall

[Nexus8]

I'm sorry but I do not think Madison died. 

You know the rule : if you didn't see it happen they aren't dead.

They were GUESS, ASSUMING what happened behind those doors. Mark my words....she'll be back......

[1 who Knocks-Nuihc]

Oh well, after watching the brilliance of The Americans last week it just shows in stark contrast how much Scott Gimple has destroyed both of TWD shows. This show is now officially just as bad as the original.

[Cherokee Rose]

Shocking, Nuihc. Kills any hope I had for the back half of the season. With the actors dropping like flies, wonder why they got new characters, and didn't kill the show entirely? AMC is going to be out of the "dead" business very soon, I think.

[1 who Knocks-Nuihc]

1 minute ago, Nexus8 said:

I'm sorry but I do not think Madison died. 

You know the rule : if you didn't see it happen they aren't dead.

They were GUESS, ASSUMING what happened behind those doors. Mark my words....she'll be back......

Well, according to Kim she is. She should know. I suspect she is the unnamed guest on TTD tonight.

[WalkerTalker]

In that last scene before she threw the torch, she looked over by the exit to her left to go into the stadium underground. I was hoping that is where she ended up. I guess we should watch TTD tonight. If she is dead they will make if official, if not the tease will begin. Her post could be a tease, to throw us off.

[Lamima]

WTF was that? This must be the work of Gimple. It is so bad. And I too was thinking 'no way would I share noodles with the brother murdering brat'. 

I only like June and John. That's it. Eff the rest of 'em.

And they better not pull a Glenn under the dumpster trick out on us. That would be super infuriating. If Madison lives I am over and out.

[DeadandBloated]

I think Madi is dead.

[Cherokee Rose]

Wonder if she left voluntarily. And you were right Nuihc. So, is Alicia gone in the next show... no more Clarks! lol

[1 who Knocks-Nuihc]

Gimple - worst showrunner ever

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Kim Dickens confirmed it on her IG, Madison is dead.

[DeadandBloated]

How many of the original cast are left? I dropped off in the first season.

[Cherokee Rose]

I think just Alicia and Strand. Lucianna came later.

[DeadandBloated]

Wow I remember the the Hispanic father and them all being held by the military guys but by the time they got on strands boat I was gone lol.

[WalkerTalker]

Daniel may still be alive.

are you going to ttd forum, or staying here?

[DeadandBloated]

So what ya think was she forced out for content or did she want to leave???

[1 who Knocks-Nuihc]

I liked the boat arc, or the arc boat.

Just now, DeadandBloated said:

So what ya think was she forced out for content or did she want to leave???

Gimpled

[Starchild]

30 minutes ago, candall said:

Maybe she suddenly remembered to smear some walker goo on her face and became invisible!  (Crazy how no one ever remembers that trick.)

Nick overused it so much it became boring and trite. 

I will miss Madison. I hope Alicia and Charlie die soon. Ambivalent about Luciana.

I would be fine with just John, Naomi, Morgan, and Strand going forward.

[Cherokee Rose]

1 minute ago, 1 who Knocks-Nuihc said:

Gimpled

The destroyer.

[Butless]

Scott Gimple ruined yet another show.  Who the eff is this POS related to, that he can keep these jobs?

Killing off Madison is some misogynistic carp, and it will be seen as this, eventually. I am certain. Misogynist fanboiing, whether it was men or women complaining, in these genres has to stop being catered to and rewarded.  Im not saying that everyone on this board who conplained about Dickens is misogynistic. Im saying that the overall complaining in this genre has a BIG BIG problem that follows along the same lines. And Gimple is a pandering coward.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Buttless

[For Cereals]

8 minutes ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

Kim Dickens confirmed it on her IG, Madison is dead.

Or is she?  LOL! If enough people complain, they can pull a Bobby Ewing.  I won’t be one of those people, but still.

I just need to see receipts.  A body.  Walker Madison.  They can go back and CGI that shit.  I’m too lazy to do a Zabruder and look for her, plus I already deleted it...

[Iguessnot]

I don't ever want to see Madison again, but that looked like a very large gap under that fence.

The melodramatic way they told the story at the end was just awful.

[mustbekarma]

Madison was the character I really liked. Damnit. She went out saving her kids. I still think Madison could be a total badass. I don't really care about anybody else, though. I think I'm done with zombies, on this and the mother show.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

7 minutes ago, For Cereals said:

Or is she?  LOL! If enough people complain, they can pull a Bobby Ewing.  I won’t be one of those people, but still.

I just need to see receipts.  A body.  Walker Madison.  They can go back and CGI that shit.  I’m too lazy to do a Zabruder and look for her, plus I already deleted it...

She got  a In Memoriam, with flashbacks from the beginning.

 

It's Official, Madison is definitely dead.

Edited June 11, 2018 by MrsRafaelBarba

[Butless]

59 minutes ago, laschifosavita said:

That Mountain Goats song was a harsh choice.  I guess Madison's love for her children led her to do a lot of destructive things, but it's kind of brutal to highlight that aspect of the character when she's giving up her life so her family can survive.  Unless the song was referring to Alicia and the others?  It isn't where my mind went first since they're ignoring their massive overreaction to Naomi/June, but it fits better.  I am thinking more about this than I did anything else this season, so I guess the choice accomplished something.

That song seems to follow along with Gimples horrendous taste in music on the other show. Funny how this discordant carp musical choices that are so similar in their tune and tone followed him here.  Especially after a vwry prominent death. He also comes off as massively passiveagressive, so i woukdnt be surprised if his choices were also an eff you to the actors he so wrongly canned and the audience.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Buttless

[WalkerTalker]

Once you find out how Madison died, it doesn't make sense that Alicia wanted to kill Naomi. Unless, in that moment Naomi drove up with the car she was in, Alicia thought she was in on it from the beginning. That guy leaving with their planned escape vehicle. During the film story Alicia stated that they  would have got out of there if they had that vehicle. 

[TVFan17]

38 minutes ago, Iguessnot said:

I don't ever want to see Madison again, but that looked like a very large gap under that fence.

The melodramatic way they told the story at the end was just awful.

Yes!   It was awful because it was just filmed in such an over-the-top, overly cinematic way, like they were going to make sure we knew that she was being heroic and saving her kids (as though we would have been surprised by that somehow).   All of the dramatic "stories" being told, and then the death scene.     I just found it silly.    I didn't feel sad in the least bit.    It took a long time to get to that scene, but it didn't feel like much of a payoff.

Edited June 11, 2018 by TVFan17

[GreyBunny]

That would have been sad if I actually cared about Madison.

Cap Charlie, Al, and Alicia, keep the rest.

John's alive, yay!

[Efe]

This season started great but somehow gone bad to worse. 

Best one was introduction of John&Morgan's departure. Worst was this episode.  

I hated two stories, whose idea was it?

Madison could use a more accident type of death, even cholera or some other nasty disease, not like i died for your sins one. It doesn't even make sense too, she has a HUGE ego.

They might bring back Daniel, then probably Travis too by the season finale. Next season, Madison mid season finale?. Anything is possible,  we didn't see them dead for sure. I hope they bring an enemy/villain that is more logical, it would work even there's none, like they find a clue how to cure zombie virus every human has..

[MostlyContent]

8 minutes ago, Efe said:

They might bring back Daniel, then probably Travis too by the season finale. Next season, Madison mid season finale?

I couldn't care less about Daniel.  

Travis and Madison are dead.  Like.......DEAD dead.  They're not going to reappear.  :)

Edited June 11, 2018 by MostlyContent

[JackONeill]

Riddle me this, Batman?

Why did the Walkers at the end seem to be, ever so slightly, pulling back from Madison’s burning flare?

Yes, they may turn into crispy critters if caught on fire, but they don’t know that because they’re dead and have no thoughts. And they can’t be afraid of fire because, AGAIN, they’re dead.

Of course, it makes it cinematic — very much like the movie 300, where the hero is surrounded but not giving up, and you see one swing in slow motion, than another. It gets to the point you feel as though you’ve walked in on a ballet, but I hesitate in saying that because I don’t want TPTB getting bigger heads than they already have.

But kiddies please — A Walker will continue to “walk” into you, flare or no flare, and they will eat you alive, flare or no flare.

[JackONeill]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

If the scripts were better, I am sure Dickens could have pulled it off.  I just get the feeling that this series lacked direction from the start. 

ETA:  Make Madison and Travis brother and sister, instead of a couple.  Make adjustments to play to their strengths.  But given the series as written, Dickens and Curtis were really bad fits for their roles.

I know the mother ship went in different directions, sometimes more effectively than other times.

But with this show, it seems as though TPTB were always struggling on where to take it. We all remember the assertion that the viewers would be shown the early days of the ZA. Sure, we saw some of it. To me the best thing EVER about this show was in the first episode when Nick was in the church. That to me is what I was expecting to see more of.

But then it went off the rails, and maybe it was the casting, but certainly the writing too.

In season 2, I remember thinking TPTB were already desperate. I had never heard so many over-the-top promises that by taking our crew to sea, that we would see something really different and wonderful. Hello ... snooze.

After that, it went nowhere but down. Yes, there were some good episodes. And there were some good concepts, i.e., the hotel.

But sadly, it went flat early and stayed flat till now. (Although I do like the new characters! Maybe, just maybe, there's hope.)

[nodorothyparker]

For a show that seemed to finally finally! be figuring out what wasn't working in dumping much of the old cast to bring in new and better characters and really up its cinematography game, this was a rough one. 

Nothing about the Vultures as scavengers made sense in the end.  How much can you realistically scavenge if you burn it all down and how much did you waste in resources setting all of that up?  Nothing made sense with our old crew as antagonists pointing guns at every one else every 30 seconds, firing on the same people who had just helped them and trying to blow up the only safe ride out of there.   Sure, Laura/Naomi/June/whoever she is this week's story that she was alone and needed a ride was a bit underwhelming in the end, but it never occurred to any of you to maybe ask before you start disproportionately targeting her and blasting away in an arena overrun with extra crispy walkers?  What possible motivation did the Vultures even have in continuing that firefight last week?  Everything's destroyed, there's nothing to scavenge, Madison's dead, so what is even the point of showing up to continue bothering with our little group?  It didn't help that most of us in the live viewing thread spent most of the episode trying to figure out when the Madison-Althea scenes were supposed to have happened.  Past timeline, present timeline, a third separate timeline sometime after the dam explosion?  I didn't mind the two separate timelines for much of the season or the lovely John and Laura/Naomi/June/whoever flashback episode that was clearly a flashback, but by the end there were so many scenes that seemed to be happening independently of any of the existing timelines that I felt like I needed a chalk diagram.  And that's before you get to Madison's channeling Suzanne Sugarbaker's fire baton routine on her way out the door to answer the half-season long mystery of what happened at the stadium.

So now we head into the back half of all these people riding around together, apparently supposed to forgive and forget that Charley killed Nick or that completely unhinged Alicia shot John and went overboard trying to murder Laura/Naomi/June/whoever.  But hey, they've got instant noodles.

[JackONeill]

31 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

It didn't help that most of us in the live viewing thread spent most of the episode trying to figure out when the Madison-Althea scenes were supposed to have happened.  Past timeline, present timeline, a third separate timeline sometime after the dam explosion? 

I was one of the ones who theorized that is was post-dam! But I still don't know. Even watching it to the end, I don't know. Maybe I missed it in all the yakking everyone was doing. Does anyone know, as in KNOW KNOW? (not guessing which is how the writers usually leave us.)

[nodorothyparker]

From things the characters said, we finally concluded that it was long after the dam explosion but before they settled in the stadium.  Madison mentioned that she'd gotten separated from the spawn somewhere around El Paso, yet they were apparently in Oklahoma when they met up?  It didn't make much sense, even when they threw in that late scene of her reuniting with them just in time to show off her "new discovery" of the stadium as a future home.

I honestly spent the first half of the episode thinking that Althea had run into Madison immediately post stadium before she met up with the rest of our crew and after they began scuffling was almost convinced we were about to find out that Madison had survived after all despite all the heavy death anvils ringing all season only for Althea to have killed her, probably unintentionally and never the wiser that she had been the same person.  In hindsight, that would have been more interesting than what we got, a drawn out bird story and a yep, she's dead. 

[Jel]

I am one of the few I think who have always liked this show and liked Madison just fine, so I will be disappointed if she really is gone. Having said that, I do have a sneaking suspicion we may have been Glenned again.  Or the show's producers will gauge the audience reaction to losing Madison and then decide her real fate at a later date. There's plenty of holes left if they want her to return.