Super Social Analysis: Gender, Race, Ethnicity, and LGBT in Movies

[VCRTracking]

I love Michael Caine but he's done like a hundred movies, some of them were great but a lot of them as he admitted were "crap" that he took because of the paycheck or he he gets to be in the Bahamas for a few months. He can afford not to be so choosy because whatever role he takes won't EVER reflect badly on his race. Nobody's going to say he's embarrassing white people or even British Cockneys if he takes a certain part.  Black actors always have that dilemma. There are so few good roles for POC that are both interesting and non-condescending while the rest are usually bland supporting roles or worse badly written stereotypes that you would only really take if you needed to pay the bills but not something to be proud of. You need a lot more African- American writers and directors who are given a chance by the studios to turn that around.

Edited January 23, 2016 by VCRTracking

[Ms Blue Jay]

White Feminism in Hollywood!  Joining the ranks of Charlotte Rampling and Patricia Arquette (and Patricia's defenders, like Debra Messing.)  This is so prevalent in Hollywood.  And she's already backtracking.

 

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/01/22/julie-delpy-hollywood-diversity-women

 

Julie Delpy on Hollywood diversity: Women have it hardest

'I sometimes wish I were African-American,' the actress says

 

I also find this matter fascinating - Overpaid versus Underpaid actors, something I never really even thought about before!  Forbes releases every year a list of actors who are paid way more for movies than they bring in and actors who are paid way way less than they bring in:

 

Really fascinating.  No women mentioned in the overpaid list; several women mentioned in the underpaid list.

 

Overpaid:  Johnny Depp, Will Ferrell, etc.  http://www.forbes.com/sites/natalierobehmed/2015/12/22/hollywoods-most-overpaid-actors-of-2015-johnny-depp-leads-denzel-washington-will-ferrell/#625bfc551d75

 

Underpaid:  Mila Kunis, Scarlett Johansson, Chris Evans, etc. http://www.forbes.com/sites/natalierobehmed/2015/12/21/hollywoods-best-actors-for-the-buck-2015-chris-evans-leads-mila-kunis-scarlett-johansson-and-more/#5a9d2e4724a8

Edited January 24, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[UYI]

Jennifer Lawrence wrote an op-ed for Lena Dunham's (yeah, I know) newsletter Lenny a few months ago about gender pay disparity, which speaks volumes, because even though she's the highest paid actress in Hollywood (and, for that matter, the world), she STILL makes millions less than the highest paid actor in Hollywood (Robert Downey, Jr., IIRC).

 

I do hope she becomes more intersectional about that issue should she talk about it more in the future, but I'm glad she's spoken up about it. 

Edited January 24, 2016 by UYI

[Ms Blue Jay]

Danny Franks, I'm not really seeing much vitriol, I'm seeing people questioning why no people of colour were nominated in any of the writing or acting categories, which I think is an important and interesting question to ask.  You are asking which people of colour should have been nominated.  I'll ask you , do you think all acting and writing nominations this year were deserved?

 

There's room for 10 Best Picture nominees.  Eight movies were nominated.  I'll admit it does look weird to me that for most, if not all, of these movies, the casts are made up of 90% or more white actors.  It says to me that the Academy is interested in white stories and white people who tell other stories (in other categories, white people were nominated for Straight out of Compton and the Nina Simone documentary).  This is the kind of thing that stands out to me.  I think it's fair to question it.  The Academy is the biggest known movie award body in Hollywood.  It is part of the industry.

 

I've seen The Big Short, every person in that cast is white.  The entire IMDB page for Spotlight looks the same.  

 

There comes a breaking point where this stuff can't be wilfully ignored anymore, and this year we reached it big time.  You can say you didn't think Creed and Straight Outta Compton were that great but maybe critics disagreed with you.  Creed was rated by the Top critics at 91% on RottenTomatoes, that's not bad.  The Top critics only gave The Revenant an 83%...... it has 12 Oscar nominations.  The Big Short is at 87%.   I'm not saying RT is the be all and end all, but I think it's kind of unfair to dismiss one of the year's best rated films from the conversation.  Also if Creed was just a so-so movie, then I think it's weird that the white lead Sylvester Stallone was recognized while Michael B. Jordan and Tessa Thompson and Ryan Coogler were not.  Was Sylvester's acting that much of a standout and did the director not have to do with that?  How many coincidences is somebody supposed to tolerate before they question what is happening?

 

It's all a self-fulfilling prophecy.  If people are not recognized by the industry (a.k.a. the Academy) then they might lose out on opportunities in the future.  The Academy brings recognition to people and projects.  I already know 4 people who are seeing The Revenant this weekend.  I'm 100% sure it's because of all those nominations.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[JustaPerson]

What did Patricia Arquette do?

[Ms Blue Jay]

Page 2 of this thread should cover it.

[Julia]

For a really unpopular unpopular opinion, and for whatever little it's worth, I thought Patricia Arquette was trying to introduce the concept of intersectionality and how the dominant culture convinces the various factions of the underclass that winning is a zero sum game so we fight over a small piece of the pie while they keep the big piece.

WhIch, again, she didn't put across, but we did all go to our corners afterwards.

[JBC344]

For a really unpopular unpopular opinion, and for whatever little it's worth, I thought Patricia Arquette was trying to introduce the concept of intersectionality and how the dominant culture convinces the various factions of the underclass that winning is a zero sum game so we fight over a small piece of the pie while they keep the big piece.

WhIch, again, she didn't put across, but we did all go to our corners afterwards.

Really good points. 

 

Here is the article were Patricia got to fully explain what she was trying to say and where she thought she made a misstep. 

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/patricia-arquette-what-happened-my-845822

[Rick Kitchen]

 

I've seen The Big Short, every person in that cast is white.  The entire IMDB page for Spotlight looks the same.

 

Every character in both films is based on a real person.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Yes, I understand that and it's true, and none of that discounts what I'm saying.  I'm not saying have a black actor play a white person in a biopic.  I'm saying certain biopics got recognized by the Academy this year over others.

 

And as I type, Saturday Night Live is parodying this very issue in quite a brilliant sketch.  Hahhahaha

Edited January 24, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[JBC344]

To me there are two separate issues going on.  First I think that the bigger issue lies in the development stage in terms of which projects are getting greenlighted and if the opportunities for minorities are coming down the line.  That to me is something that I find most people agreeing on and that things really need to change. 

 

With that said, even though I agree with the above I can also separately have an issue with the Academy nominations this year.  For me, personally there are actors that I would pull out of the nominations and replace them with minority actors whom I truly felt were more deserving.  There is also the issue that there have been "Black" films this year that were both critically and commercially viable that it is more of a slap in the face when you can look at Creed and Straight Outta Compton.  Taking those movies as an example, they were better reviewed than most of the best picture nominees who did make it on the list, so it is not an issue of "random Black movies" aren't awarded, but of those that were critically acclaimed and can actually compete with the other nominees. 

 

 

Now I don't think that now means that the I think the Academy is racist, but I do believe that the Academy would benefit from a more diverse selection as well as voting membership.

 

 

So for me, the two aren't mutually exclusive. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

don't you fall in love?  Could anyone in your family be diagnosed with early onset Alzheimers?  Would you drop everything in your life to look for your missing kid?  Can you be betrayed by a lover?  Why can't those stories be about POC?  I'm not asking to see my boring life on screen -- I can barely stay awake through it myself.  But that doesn't mean that I could never see myself or someone who looks like me on screen in a compelling story.

 

Oh, of course, and sorry for letting the facetiousness take over my previous post.

 

I have actually said in the past that the things that make people the same (falling in love, falling out of love, building a dream house, etc) are perfectly good things to reflect in television and movies, because that's what fosters the idea of community in the first place. But apparently the things that make us the same aren't diverse enough, because the pervading idea is that movies either reflect the black experience or the white experience or the Asian experience, not the human experience. The fact is, no one knows exactly what its like to be anyone except themselves, and that isn't dependent on skin color. I am as diverse from the guy in the cubicle across from me at work as you probably are from the person who delivers your mail. If the point is that all the things you mentioned is stuff that most people have in common at one point or another, is that really about race?

 

As for movies, The Revenant  (which I haven't seen) and The Big Short (ditto) may have 12 and 5 Oscar nominations respectively, but Mad Max: Fury Road picked up ten nominations of its own. Considering how few chances the Academy takes in any given year, giving a movie like Fury Road double digit nominations is fairly big news, and there's no guarantee those nominees will walk away with anything. Hell, I think Quentin Tarantino ought to have a Best Director Oscar by now, since he was nominated once for Pulp Fiction in 1994 and then again for Inglourious Basterds in in 2010, but he doesn't, because he lost to Robert Zemeckis for frigging Forrest Gump first, and then to Kathryn Bigelow's The Hurt Locker, which I wasn't as annoyed about. A nomination is not a promise ring, that's all I'm saying. It's more like a friendship bracelet.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Cobalt Stargazer

[Archery]

 

I have actually said in the past that the things that make people the same (falling in love, falling out of love, building a dream house, etc) are perfectly good things to reflect in television and movies, because that's what fosters the idea of community in the first place. But apparently the things that make us the same aren't diverse enough, because the pervading idea is that movies either reflect the black experience or the white experience or the Asian experience, not the human experience. The fact is, no one knows exactly what its like to be anyone except themselves, and that isn't dependent on skin color. I am as diverse from the guy in the cubicle across from me at work as you probably are from the person who delivers your mail. If the point is that all the things you mentioned is stuff that most people have in common at one point or another, is that really about race?

All true.  But the point that I'm making is that those few movies actually about, say, black people, always seem to have this Social Impact undercurrent, which makes them neatly fit into the pocket of Ethnic (easily ignored) movies.  I've been watching TV and movies for nearly 50 years.  I've seen thousands of hours of movies about white people: on the Earth and in space; rich white people and poor white people; white people in love and in war; white people in the past, present, and future; white heroes and white villains.  Really, I've been watching white people on the screen my whole live and I'm bored.  What I want to see is POC doing those things, grand and mundane. I want to see more stories about people who look like me.   So, yes, in the end, it is about race, and it will be until Hollywood leaves off making "Other" movies about POC and starts just making the type of movies about POC that they make about white people. 

[cynic]

 

...I have actually said in the past that the things that make people the same (falling in love, falling out of love, building a dream house, etc) are perfectly good things to reflect in television and movies, because that's what fosters the idea of community in the first place. But apparently the things that make us the same aren't diverse enough, because the pervading idea is that movies either reflect the black experience or the white experience or the Asian experience, not the human experience. The fact is, no one knows exactly what its like to be anyone except themselves, and that isn't dependent on skin color. I am as diverse from the guy in the cubicle across from me at work as you probably are from the person who delivers your mail. If the point is that all the things you mentioned is stuff that most people have in common at one point or another, is that really about race?...

 

I read a quote a while back that went something like this: "Stories about women and minorities are stories about women and minorities. Stories about white men are stories about the human condition." One of the problems is that people in power discount projects featuring women and PoC, because they feel that the mainstream viewing public (read: white) will not relate to them or even give them a chance. They will bypass them as oh, that's a "black movie" or whatever instead of recognizing the themes that are universal and that attitude is catered to. Those same people will argue that movies featuring white males should be viewed as universal by PoC, as if white males are the generic default that everyone should be able to relate to and that women and PoC are trying to make the stories too niche. However, all good stories are both personal and universal. There should be diverse viewpoints that relay the experiences of falling in love, losing someone, growing up, etc that we all share. But that's not what's happening. When we do get PoC stories, it's generally ones that about how PoC have it different, instead of ones that highlight how we are all the same. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Those same people will argue that movies featuring white males should be viewed as universal by PoC, as if white males are the generic default that everyone should be able to relate to and that women and PoC are trying to make the stories too niche. However, all good stories are both personal and universal. There should be diverse viewpoints that relay the experiences of falling in love, losing someone, growing up, etc that we all share. But that's not what's happening. When we do get PoC stories, it's generally ones that about how PoC have it different, instead of ones that highlight how we are all the same. 

 

As much as I see your point, I think its worth noting that it probably isn't only white people who think that. Fair enough to say that the noise that gets the most attention is made by whites, but I think if you asked, say, Spike Lee if he was a black film maker or a film maker who is black, he would choose the former. And since he's the one who's maybe (or maybe not) trying to lead the charge to boycott the Oscars, that's fairly relevant. Like Tarantino, he's been nominated for an Oscar twice and lost twice, and that he maybe-possibly wants Chris Rock to walk out as host in protest tells me that while his intentions may be good, wanting Rock to essentially commit professional suicide by ducking out at the last second is not the way to prove his point. Ask Anne Hathaway how that whole Oscar hosting debacle worked out for her, and she actually stuck it out.

 

As for the general public, and I said this in the celebrity news thread in the TV section, last Monday was Martin Luther King Day. One of the movie channels ran a marathon of films featuring people of color, but apparently none of those films were about the civil rights movement or similar themes. I suppose it could be argued that the day itself should be a time for reflecting on the importance of civil rights and the struggle involved there, but wasn't the point of that struggle to establish more of an equal society, to make it clear that the lives of people of color are like "everyone else's?

[Ms Blue Jay]

In my opinion it would absolutely not be professional suicide for Chris Rock, one of the best and most intelligent comedians that I know of, to bow out of hosting the Oscars.  Professional suicide is putting it very dramatically.  Ask Anne Hathaway?  What would we be asking her?  After hosting the Oscars in 2010 she starred in Les Miserables in 2012 and won a bunch of awards for doing so, including the Best Supporting Actress Oscar.  She also co-starred in The Intern this year which made $194 million on a $35 million dollar budget.  In my opinion her career is bigger now than before the so-called hosting "debacle".

Edited January 25, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I'm confused as to what the actual point of contention is, which is not that unusual.

 

First its that the industry doesn't nominate people of color for awards, leading to Spike Lee - and Jada Pinkett-Smith - calling for a boycott of the Oscar ceremony, which has apparently been backtracked from at this point. I was also under the impression that Chris Rock was under pressure to drop out of hosting the ceremony, regardless of whether or not the word "boycott" was actually used. If neither the thing about Lee and Smith or the thing about Rock is correct, then somebody's been given some bad information, which was then passed on.

 

If you don't think it would hurt Chris Rock's career to back out on what is likely a contract deal to be the Oscar host, then I guess that's different from the thing with Hathaway. I do, however, think its worth noting that Anne still gets flack among the general public, basically for actually trying to do her job while that damn James Franco ass-clowned his way through the evening. If I seemed to imply that she no longer gets roles and has a decent career, that was not my intention. But isn't public perception part of what's being discussed here? IMO, ticket sales are based on what movie-goers think of you, and whether or not you get roles is based on what the industry thinks of you. (Hi, Alex Pettyfer!) At the very least, couldn't Rock be sued for breach of contract?

 

I mean, if I'm wrong, then fine. It wouldn't be the first time that's happened, so I guess YMMV.

[millennium]

but snubbing Idris Elba again, this time for Beasts Of No Nation, is outrageous. I think that the reason why Idris keeps getting ignored is because most of the White, male members of the Academy are jealous. Idris is not only tall, dark & handsome personified, he's got the talent to back it up-and don't even get me started on his British accent.

 

I can't speak to whether white men are jealous of Idris Elba, but I watched Beasts of No Nation (somehow I stayed awake) and thought his performance was one-note and lackluster, certainly not worthy of an award -- unless of course they're giving awards out for British black guys playing African black guys.  I know the movie was supposed to be "important" but it wasn't very engaging.    Also, in the movie, Elba played a pedophile.  Who knows, maybe that had something to do with the lack of recognition. 

 

IMHO, Elba's performance in The Wire was far superior.

 

I'm tired of hearing about "diversity" and going forward I question what value awards to actors of color will have when there is a perception that the awards are being given as the result of social responsibility  vs. as a result of talent.    What next?  A demand to give more awards to gay actors?   To transgender actors? 

 

The Smith family's "We're not attending the Oscars" came off as a hissy fit and publicity stunt.   I'm guessing that if Will Smith was the only black actor nominated, they'd be just fine with it.

 

I won't be watching anyway because I have no desire to see the Host's role turned into a bully pulpit for Chris Rock.   What's he going to do, lambaste the Academy to great applause even though all the people clapping would kill to get their hands on an Academy award?  Take the Academy's money, then say how awful the Academy is?   Too much hypocrisy on all fronts.

Edited January 25, 2016 by millennium

[NutMeg]

You know, just an idea, but it seems to me that these days the target audience is no longer the white male audience but the Chinese audience - hence the huge number of action/action heroes movies, maybe because of language/subtitles problems, or maybe preconceptions (that work!). Which I have zero interest in. But I bet that the PTB of Hollywood will start casting more Asian/Chinese in the future. Racist? In the way that it's based on race, yes. But mostly driven by the perspective of mucho dineros down the line, which is basically what it's all about, anyway, despite all talk about what and what not.

 

I've been reading this thread with  much interest as a European living in Asia. My complaint would be the predominance of Hollywood blockbusters here :) which for sure is another topic. But reading all of you posts has reminded me of the treatment of people of North African descent in European movies, which is sometimes talked in a way similar to what I've read here. That being said, despite the prevalence of stereotypes and what not in that regard, there are also actors that manage to always play roles that have no relation with their origins - Rosschdy Zem in a case in point, I've watched him playing corrupt executives, loyal executives, etc. for years and years before he even played to his origins (may have missed some movies of his, living in Asia, etc.) The closest I get in the US who plays "race neutral", for lack of a better term, i.e. roles where race doesn't play a part, is Denzel Washington). I can list a number of French series where there are North African actors, plural, as well as black actors, which is only a reflection of current society. They play cops, lawyers, lovers, annoying neighbor, love interest, a mix of these, and no one gives a damn what their ethnicity is. Maybe this is vety much a US thing -

 

Or maybe my post is terribly insensitive, so now I'll quietly see myself out... (Don't mind me, I'm just a clueless foreigner...)       

[Epeolatrix]

I'm tired of hearing about "diversity" and going forward I question what value awards to actors of color will have when there is a perception that the awards are being given as the result of social responsibility  vs. as a result of talent. What next? A demand to give more awards to gay actors? To transgender actors?

 

How dare Americans request that their pre-eminent industry award for cinema evolve with the rest of the country? It certainly would be sad if awards are devalued by being given to "diverse" people, since obviously it would be done only out of political pressure. No one can possibly be taking this moment as encouragement to expand their horizons beyond that to which they usually gravitate, on the off-chance that they are missing award-worthy performances. Nope, well-meaning so-called majority persons will hand out awards to minorities the same way trophies are handed out to school children, not based on merit but on participation. This is the thing that would make the awards meaningless, rather than the fact that they only reflect the tastes of a small percentage of people drawn from those who've already been nominated or won under a system that historically has shunned participation from "diverse" groups for decades.

[blixie]

 

I've seen The Big Short, every person in that cast is white.

 

This isn't actually true, Adepero Oduye portrays the small, though pivotal role of Kathy Tao, Baum's handler at Morgan Stanley. I was happy to see her, but it felt like Tokenism to the max, and it being based on real life doesn't make it feel less like tokenism. A better movie would have given us more of her perspective. 

[galax-arena]

I'm tired of hearing about "diversity" and going forward I question what value awards to actors of color will have when there is a perception that the awards are being given as the result of social responsibility  vs. as a result of talent.

And I'm tired of the majority white establishment acting like all they truly care about is a meritocracy and presuming the false dichotomy of diversity vs talent. And that doesn't just go for showbiz. All of the allegations that we just want inferior actors to win reminds me of all the controversy over affirmative action. Being a native Californian, I remember all the fuss when, in the wake of banning affirmative action in our public universities, it turned out that the rate of admission for white students remained static, while the rate of admission for Asian students skyrocketed. Suddenly the same white people who had pushed to ban affirmative action were talking about adopting a more "holistic" admissions process to take in the ~whole student instead of simply going by academic achievements (because those Asians, you know, they're just soulless automatons). But not affirmative action, because affirmative action is racist. They were so fucking transparent. Wonder if there's any way to similarly expose Hollywood. 

 

the target audience is no longer the white male audience but the Chinese audience

Hey, Bill Maher did insist that Hollywood only has a diversity problem because they're pandering to Asians and Asians are super-racist. 

 

ETA: To me, it is very telling that the automatic assumption that a lot of people make whenever POC speak out about stuff like this is, "Well, maybe you just weren't talented/smart/gifted enough." (Looking at you, Rampling.) Perhaps those people should ask themselves why it's more plausible to them that POC are simply less talented and not that the system is rigged.

Edited January 25, 2016 by galax-arena

[cynic]

 

I'm tired of hearing about "diversity" and going forward I question what value awards to actors of color will have when there is a perception that the awards are being given as the result of social responsibility  vs. as a result of talent.

But you don't question the value of awards going to white actors? It's been unquestionably a meritocracy based on talent up until this point in your mind? Despite the fact that campaigning and politics are a well-known aspect of the Oscar process? And you don't think the demographics of the Academy (93% white, 76% male, and an average age of 63) has any effect on their perception of what movies are worthy? Or strike worthy, any effect on which movies even get seen by the voting members? They're not required to watch all the movies up for consideration and of course, they're going to nominate what they've seen. How many 70 year-old white men do you think watched Straight Out of Compton or Tangerine? But sure, up until this point, it's totally been a level playing field. Okay.

 

Maybe what we should be questioning is why we, the public, give so much importance to the views of an organization that is so exclusionary just because they styled themselves as the industry's standard bearer.

[millennium]

 

Maybe what we should be questioning is why we, the public, give so much importance to the views of an organization that is so exclusionary just because they styled themselves as the industry's standard bearer.

 

The way I see it, and have for years, is that the Academy's taste is all in its mouth.   Every year they get behind movies that generally suck and elevate them to positions of unwarranted acclaim -- Birdman, for example.  One of the worst films I've seen in recent years.   Want another?  Gravity.   Just awful.   This year Mad Max is nominated despite that it's little more than a dolled-up remake of The Road Warrior.

 

Personally, I think the Academy is biased against good actors, period.   Not just actors of color.   I'd rather see all the clamor devoted to stripping the Academy of its clout, for everyone's benefit.   Instead, the diversity movement seems interested in improving the situation only for non-Caucasian actors.   So what if the whole system's broken, as long as the diversity advocates get their piece of the pie.  It's ironic -- everybody expresses their disdain for the Academy, yet everybody wants so badly to be recognized by it. 

 

What happens if the push for diversity is successful?   Will anything truly change?   They may tweak the process so that more actors of color are nominated but the Academy machine will keep chugging along, honoring shitty film after shitty film, year in, year out.   I'd rather see the whole thing mothballed and replaced by something new.

Edited January 25, 2016 by millennium

[Bruinsfan]

Charlotte Rampling says her comment was misinterpreted.

How exactly are people misinterpreting ""Sometimes maybe black actors didn't deserve to make the shortlist."

 

I mean, I haven't yet seen Creed to make a personal judgment of Michael B. Jordan's performance or Ryan Coogler's direction, but I'm VERY skeptical that Stallone turned in an Oscar-worthy performance in an otherwise lackluster film.

[Bruinsfan]

I recall her speech as kind of stumbling and not effectively conveying the point she wanted to get across, but it didn't strike me as a "Let the darkies eat cake!" faux pas like Rampling's recent comments.

[VCRTracking]

Not me. Despite a lot of bad movies when Stallone is good he can be very good, like the first Rocky and the first First Blood and I thought he was very moving in Creed.

 

This year Mad Max is nominated despite that it's little more than a dolled-up remake of The Road Warrior.

 

Aaaaaaaand that's where you lost me.

 

The way I see it, and have for years, is that the Academy's taste is all in its mouth.   Every year they get behind movies that generally suck and elevate them to positions of unwarranted acclaim -- Birdman, for example.  One of the worst films I've seen in recent years.   Want another?  Gravity.   Just awful.  

 

Those movies were already either immensely popular or acclaimed before they were even nominated for Oscars.

Edited January 25, 2016 by VCRTracking

[galax-arena]

Yeah, in Patricia's case, I can believe that she just worded things badly. Rampling and Delpy, though...

[VCRTracking]

I've read previous interviews with Delpy where she expressed her frustration with Hollywood before, as an actress and writer and director so I believe her that she's had difficulty as a woman in the business. The problem is when she brings race into it and all that built up frustration led to her saying something really dumb. Comparing her struggles to the experiences of African Americans who she mistakenly believe have had it better when they have different obstacles. I can make the same assumptions about her, that as a beautiful blonde woman especially in her 20s and thinking she must have had it so easy, when really there were doors closed to her on what she wanted to do and was limited in ways a white male actor wouldn't have been.

Edited January 25, 2016 by VCRTracking

[millennium]

It was only a matter of time.

 

Ian McKellen Speaks Out on Oscars Controversy: Gay Actors Are Also 'Disregarded'

 

http://www.people.com/article/ian-mckellen-speaks-out-oscar-controversy-gay-actors-disregarded

[cynic]

Kristen Stewart on Gender Equality in Hollywood: ‘Do Something’ Instead of Complaining

 

I particularly enjoy this:

“And that’s easy to say,” she continued. “Like, f–k, it’s hard to get movies made. It’s a huge luxury. Who gets to just make movies? But that subject is just so prevalently everywhere right now, and it’s boring.”

[Ms Blue Jay]

http://www.avclub.com/article/cut-every-black-actor-whos-won-oscar-highlights-ac-231232

 

This cut of every black actor who’s won an Oscar highlights the Academy’s problems

By Rob Dean@neuroticmonkey
Jan 25, 2016  2:57 PM

Edited January 26, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[SeanC]

The way I see it, and have for years, is that the Academy's taste is all in its mouth.   Every year they get behind movies that generally suck and elevate them to positions of unwarranted acclaim -- Birdman, for example.  One of the worst films I've seen in recent years.   Want another?  Gravity.   Just awful.   This year Mad Max is nominated despite that it's little more than a dolled-up remake of The Road Warrior.

All of those movies received enormous critical acclaim well before the Academy got to them (indeed, a lot of people were uncertain if they would even go for Mad Max given its genre status).

Edited January 26, 2016 by SeanC

[Julia]

Kristen Stewart on Gender Equality in Hollywood: ‘Do Something’ Instead of Complaining

 

I particularly enjoy this:

“And that’s easy to say,” she continued. “Like, f–k, it’s hard to get movies made. It’s a huge luxury. Who gets to just make movies? But that subject is just so prevalently everywhere right now, and it’s boring.”

 

Because her own career is so clearly dependent on making good choices.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Because her own career is so clearly dependent on making good choices.

 

As much as I hate Twilight, Stewart was lucky to have been chosen for that franchise. Even at her best (Welcome to the Rileys, American Ultra) she's really damn limited. So she made at least one good choice, the one that got her noticed.

[raezen]

Better yet, Twilight got her a hell of a lot of money. Money enough that she could probably make art house films for the rest of her life if she wants. I will also give her this; she or the people she has working for her must be damn good at business too, because she was still on Forbes list of top ten earning actress this year and it's been how many years since Twilight?

Edited January 27, 2016 by raezen

[SeanC]

Yeah, say what you will about quality, but I wouldn't call Twilight a bad career decision.  It definitely hurt her credibility as an actress a bit (as did things like Snow White and the Huntsman; that sort of part is just outside her range), but she's getting that back, so the main legacy of it is tons of money and name recognition.

[blixie]

So at Sundance, Ava Duvernay has been talking about her apprehension around "diversity" as word she doesn't like when discussing race and representation in film/the work place. Here is piece in the Atlantic, and one in the New York Times where she gets into how she prefers the language to be about inclusion and belonging, and a seperate piece by Anna Holmes about how that word can depersonalize. I don't exclusively rely on the word, and I can see how it being used by institutions "depersonalizes", but I feel like it's still a good word, or at least what the concept means feels like a higher bar to clear than mere "inclusion".

 

I feel like Hollywood can tell itself it's been inclusive via Tokenism. The Big Short case in point, SEE I *included* a black woman, I didn't consider what her perspective might be and what it felt like to be her in that environment, I didn't think that was a worthy point of view to portray, but I damn well included her! Plus I generally use diversity when I think something is or should be representing a plurality of minority perspectives instead of again feeling like they have to represent "the" minority experience via the least amount of characters they can. We have ourselves a black person, we don't need any Asians, or Latinos!

I think the real lesson is not to rely on only one word to get across a complex concept of representation in media. 

[Bastet]

This cut of every black actor who’s won an Oscar highlights the Academy’s problems

 

Including clips of the performances (as well as of the acceptance speeches) was a smart choice, because the piece shows not just how little time it takes to go through the list of every black person who's won an acting award in the nearly 90 years of Oscar history, but the kinds of roles for which many have won.

[xaxat]

I agree so much with this essay.

 

I'm So Damn Tired of Slave Movies

 

 

It’s obvious at this point that Hollywood has a problem with only paying attention to non-white people when they’re playing a stereotype. Their love of the slave movie genre brings this issue out in the worst way. I’m tired of watching black people go through some of the worst pain in human history for entertainment, and I’m tired of white audiences falling over themselves to praise a film that has the courage and honesty to tell such a brutal story. When movies about slavery or, more broadly, other types of violence against black people are the only types of films regularly deemed “important” and “good” by white people, you wonder if white audiences are only capable of lauding a story where black people are subservient.

[galax-arena]

Working in Hollywood When You're Not White: Three Players Reveal All

The awards-targeted films today that get a minority protagonist tend to be about the most amazing person of that race who's ever lived. But award movies with white protagonists are just about a white person who did a thing: It's a white dude who fought a bear, it's a white lady who lives in Brooklyn, it's a white lady who invented a mop …

 

(Laughter.)

 

YANG I'd love to hear David O. Russell's response to that.

 

...

 

There is no equivalent of the N-word for white people.

 

SIMIEN Tarantino is looking for it, but he hasn't found it yet.

Cackling.

[greenbean]

You know, just an idea, but it seems to me that these days the target audience is no longer the white male audience but the Chinese audience - hence the huge number of action/action heroes movies, maybe because of language/subtitles problems, or maybe preconceptions (that work!). Which I have zero interest in. But I bet that the PTB of Hollywood will start casting more Asian/Chinese in the future. Racist? In the way that it's based on race, yes. But mostly driven by the perspective of mucho dineros down the line, which is basically what it's all about, anyway, despite all talk about what and what not.

 

I've been reading this thread with  much interest as a European living in Asia. My complaint would be the predominance of Hollywood blockbusters here :) which for sure is another topic. But reading all of you posts has reminded me of the treatment of people of North African descent in European movies, which is sometimes talked in a way similar to what I've read here. That being said, despite the prevalence of stereotypes and what not in that regard, there are also actors that manage to always play roles that have no relation with their origins - Rosschdy Zem in a case in point, I've watched him playing corrupt executives, loyal executives, etc. for years and years before he even played to his origins (may have missed some movies of his, living in Asia, etc.) The closest I get in the US who plays "race neutral", for lack of a better term, i.e. roles where race doesn't play a part, is Denzel Washington). I can list a number of French series where there are North African actors, plural, as well as black actors, which is only a reflection of current society. They play cops, lawyers, lovers, annoying neighbor, love interest, a mix of these, and no one gives a damn what their ethnicity is. Maybe this is vety much a US thing -

 

Or maybe my post is terribly insensitive, so now I'll quietly see myself out... (Don't mind me, I'm just a clueless foreigner...)       

Other countries have their issues, but in all my years of consuming media, I think this is something that's more pronounced in Hollywood. I'm used to seeing black people in more varied "race neutral" roles, whereas in a lot of American stuff, both tv and film, race is in play whenever the story involves black or other minority people. It's similar in music also; the genres are basically race coded.

Edited January 28, 2016 by greenbean

[Ms Blue Jay]

Why so much negativity about Kristen Stewart's acting career?  What is that based on?

 

She won the Rising Star BAFTA Award in 2010, and became the first American actress to win a Cesar Award, when she won Best Supporting Actress in 2015 for her role opposite Juliette Binoche in Clouds of Sils Maria (2014).

 

This is no small feat.  4 movies listed for 2016, including a Woody Allen film.  She's won 8 acting awards (so far) for Clouds of Sils Maria.  That's pretty insane.  It seems to me she's making perfect choices for the type of actor she is.  Obviously the Snow White debacle was a misstep but whatever.  People are not holding it against her.  Maybe Twihards are, I don't know.  The business doesn't seem to be.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Dejana]

The BAFTA Rising Star award is fan voted, and her more critically-acclaimed efforts are little seen, compared to her blockbuster fare. The critics were raving about Kristen back during the Into the Wild days. They rhapsodize about her naturalistic style in the indie flicks she's made, but it hasn't been enough to overcome the broader public's impression that the sum of her acting skills amounts to fingers through the hair, lip-biting twitchy awkwardness.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Why so much negativity about Kristen Stewart's acting career?  What is that based on?

 

 

This is no small feat.  4 movies listed for 2016, including a Woody Allen film.  She's won 8 acting awards (so far) for Clouds of Sils Maria.  That's pretty insane.  It seems to me she's making perfect choices for the type of actor she is.  Obviously the Snow White debacle was a misstep but whatever.  People are not holding it against her.  Maybe Twihards are, I don't know.  The business doesn't seem to be.

 

Oh, her career is fine, and I don't think anyone said it isn't. But I checked her IMDB entry, and those awards for Clouds of Sils Maria are from critics' associations and such, and I've never heard of any of them. Someone else might have, but I haven't.

 

Also, in everything I've seen her in, including Clouds of Sils Maria, she always seems either annoyed or half-asleep or both. I think she's very introverted, which is really evident when she's being interviewed or doing other kinds of press, and while that's fine, on-screen it (IMO) translates into wishing she was anywhere else. Say what you will about someone like Jennifer Lawrence, but that natural-to-the-point-of-being-overdone garrulousness serves better than borderline irritation. Combine her possible discomfort with the fact that I don't think she's a very good actress, and its a bad mixture. Granted, whether or not someone can act is subjective, but Stewart has yet to wow me. Perhaps one day she will, but that hasn't happened yet.

[Athena]

I scratch my head about Stewart as well. I don't really like her acting style, but obviously, she is well liked by a lot of critics. I've seen her in some non-Twilight roles and she is more or less the same in most of the movies. She does not have a wide acting range, but I guess for that affected, troubled young woman range, she excels? As a personality, she is shy and awkward in interviews, but her work hasn't really spoken for itself to me yet.

[JBC344]

I haven't seen a lot of Kristen's newer movies, but she really did impress me as Joan Jett in The Runaways.

[SeanC]

Denzel Washington's adaptation of August Wilson's Fences, which has been in the works since Washington headlined it on Broadway back in 2010, is apparently racing to film this year in order to make the 2016 awards race.  Washington and Tony Kushner are fine-tuning the screenplay.

[xaxat]

I'm very happy to hear that project is going forward. Members of my family have lived in the Hill District (where Wilson's plays are set) for over seventy years.

 

However the Hill District has been so demolished/redeveloped that they probably won't be able to film anything there.

Edited January 29, 2016 by xaxat

[Bruinsfan]

Not me. Despite a lot of bad movies when Stallone is good he can be very good, like the first Rocky and the first First Blood and I thought he was very moving in Creed.

Oh, I wasn't arguing that Stallone was undeserving, I was arguing that the rest of the movie around his performance wasn't unworthy of consideration. When Stallone is in a great movie he can rise to the occasion (and given that he was also the writer, I'd attribute Rocky's greatness primarily to him). He just tends not to elevate the material when he's in a bad movie the way that, say, Michael Caine does.