S02.E22: Chapter Thirty-Five: Brave New World

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah.. I’m not sure why Veronica wants Pops instead of the Wyrm, other than because that’s where SHE hangs out. But yeah the south siders, even the teens liked the Wyrm, they hardly went to Pops, except for that brief moment in episode 2 to sell/buy Jingle Jangle. And yeah Toni and Jughead went there and FP worked there,  but I didn’t see any of the other gang members there. 

But I guess next season when Veronica opens her speakeasy, they will all be there, I guess. Pops Atter Dark! But yeah it doesn’t make sense but should it? At this point why are people expecting things to make sense? 

What doesn’t make sense and is really bothersome that I’ve said and agree with everyone is why they would have Archie go to Hiram and tell him he intends to always be ready to kill him or something? And why Hiram didn’t just hire a hit on him that instance. Instead of making a big show of having him arrested in front of the school for.. reasons. Hiram could have had him killed in moments.. having him framed for a murder that he didn’t commit is dumb because I feel like one it’s Archie Andrews, and all he did to you Hiram was stab your pretty nice desk, no one is going to believe he could kill someone. And two, I feel like the whole town is going to be behind him. Does Hiram not know that the Andrews gave room and board to the serpents? Because how the serpents like him because of this. They might defend him now. I’m so lost on Hiram Lodges grand plans.

[catrice2]

38 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yeah.. I’m not sure why Veronica wants Pops instead of the Wyrm, other than because that’s where SHE hangs out. But yeah the south siders, even the teens liked the Wyrm, they hardly went to Pops, except for that brief moment in episode 2 to sell/buy Jingle Jangle. And yeah Toni and Jughead went there and FP worked there,  but I didn’t see any of the other gang members there. 

But I guess next season when Veronica opens her speakeasy, they will all be there, I guess. Pops Atter Dark! But yeah it doesn’t make sense but should it? At this point why are people expecting things to make sense? 

What doesn’t make sense and is really bothersome that I’ve said and agree with everyone is why they would have Archie go to Hiram and tell him he intends to always be ready to kill him or something? And why Hiram didn’t just hire a hit on him that instance. Instead of making a big show of having him arrested in front of the school for.. reasons. Hiram could have had him killed in moments.. having him framed for a murder that he didn’t commit is dumb because I feel like one it’s Archie Andrews, and all he did to you Hiram was stab your pretty nice desk, no one is going to believe he could kill someone. And two, I feel like the whole town is going to be behind him. Does Hiram not know that the Andrews gave room and board to the serpents? Because how the serpents like him because of this. They might defend him now. I’m so lost on Hiram Lodges grand plans.

The writers are lost on his plans too....so there's that

[Wilpen]

1. IF you realize this show resides in a Fantasyland type of Universe and it's not the real world, the show works and is quite good.

2. I mentioned before how much I love what they're doing with Cheryl and Betty... cousins could share a room in a mental institution given what they have been through. What I love is that they are fighting back with strength and power. Cheryl got divorced from her rotten mother, didn't forget about her Grandmother, she has Toni for a love interest and has joined the Serpents. Perfect! Cheryl has the power, she fought through the pain and suffering and came out on top. Betty could have gone into fetal position and given up on life, thinking she was going to become her father. Nope. She leaned on Jughead and her friends, faced her father and took back the power. She's going to be okay. I really like how TPTB have shown Cheryl and Betty as strong girls fighting back and making it to the top of the mountain. 

3. Every Bughead scene was so adorable. I love their emotional/romantic connection. The ILYs were adorable. Their connection is deep, natural and compelling. I love these two and I'm glad they are standing strong and together at the end of the finale. No worries about them during the break before season 3. 

4. Betty going around trying to say she is sorry for her father was so sad. The best scene was the one between Betty and the father of the boy she grew up next door to... Fred. It was such a moving scene. 

5. Cheryl divorced her mother! Yes! Now we need a nice amount of Cheryl and Toni scenes in season 3. 

6. Kevin and Moose... I knew this was Kevin's endgame pairing. Poor Moose mourning Midge. He really did care about her but it was obvious his strongest feelings were always with Kevin even if he tried to hide it. Glad these two look to be getting together.

7. Are Josie and Reggie a couple now? They sort of looked like it. Reggie talking about himself in the third person was funny. Glad Josie is getting back into singing again. Singing is her art, her passion. 

8. The moment Cheryl became a Serpent was the best part of the episode for me. I loved it. You could feel how free Cheryl felt. 

9. I love the North and South Side coming together. I love it. 

10. Veronica going up against her father and buying the diner was brilliant. So sweet of her to want FP to manage the entertainment in the basement with both the North and South Side together. This is going to be awesome. 

11. Oh Archie... Archie... I understand your need to go over to Hiram's and threaten him but... it was Hiram, Archie. No, just no. He's way too powerful and can squash you like a bug. Of course he was going to get back at Archie and set him up for murder which is about as bad as it gets. The thing is Archie suffered from PTSD from the moment Fred was first shot by Hal. He was trying to deal and played a dangerous game getting involved with the head of the Mafia. In a way it is realistic this would happen to Archie. He did know Andre killed that Cassidy. He was seconds away from seeing it. He was close to a lot of dangerous situations. Life throws you Karma... Archie's "punishment" for flirting with the wrong crowd is this set up by Hiram. It is actually quite realistic. No doubt he'll skate eventually since the one attorney in town will be effective. Josie's mom will come to the rescue.

12. Betty going to visit her father was right out of The Silence of the Lambs with Betty as Clarice & Hal as Hannibal. Good stuff. Lili acted the heck out of that scene as Betty slowly walked away determined. 

13. Kind of shocked Fred lost the election. But you can tell Hermione doesn't really want it. I would love to see them working together side by side actually. 

14. Alice was definitely going crazy in that scene outside with the neighbors/reporters. Poor Alice. She doesn't seem totally there and I hope Betty keeps an eye on her.

15. Polly is clearly involved in a cult on that farm. She looked so devious almost (aka brainwashed) asking her mom to welcome some, no doubt, weirda$$ cult leader into their home in order for him to brainwash her mother. I think this is going to be a significant storyline in season 3. I really hope Betty prevents her mom from getting sucked in and she gets her stupid, impressionable sister away from the cult. Those poor babies! Get them away immediately! The irony is Betty doesn't have true darkness... we are seeing that POLLY is the one that is way more vulnerable and weak, and has already turned to darkness. Scary situation. 

16. Hal was the Black Hood but his serial killer journey started as a young child when his family influenced him and not in a good way. A case can be made that Hal is nuts and not fully there for making the proper decisions. On the other hand, Hiram IS the true serial killer, 100% psychologically aware of what he has been doing all this time. Hiram is clearly the most dangerous criminal by far and of course he now has his secret, disgusting criminal family, prostitute mother who is deranged and emotionally abusive, drug dealers, sheriff, other piles of trash doing his dirty work for him. Scary stuff.

17. Hermione is completely over Hiram and understands what Veronica says is true... he would risk her life in order to get what he desires. She knows this. I hope Hermione leaves him. 

18. So does Ethel win the election now that Archie is in prison?

19. Fred and Hermione romance again in the future? Those looks exchanged were interesting. 

20. Love how Skeet says boy. It's hot, lol.

21. What happened to Chic? Did Hal murder him or is he still on the loose?

22. Will Betty become the Serpent Queen (that almost seemed like an adorable marriage proposal too)? 

23. Glad Fangs is alive.

24. We found out lame Tall Boy was the fake black hood. Good riddance. Glad this mystery was cleared up and I hope we never have to hear the two words Black Hood ever again, lol.

25. Still love Jug's VOs. 

26. I smiled seeing the North and Side Side being there for each other. It was great evolution. One of the best parts of the episode and I can't wait to see everyone interact next season. 

Season 2 had it's bad moments but overall this finale was great, tied up a bunch of things, gave us some concern for next season (Hiram's plans, Polly the brainwashed idiot, Archie in prison) and I look forward to this Fantasyland once again in season 3!

Edited May 17, 2018 by Wilpen

[WhosThatGirl]

I don’t know. I’m always going to miss season one of this show and what it could have been. I know what this show is now but still I can’t get over what they did this season.

I did like this episode. I hope for happy Bughead next season.

[the-grey-lady]

Okay...I simply cannot be the only viewer who chortled at the sight of Cheryl in a red cape, packing treats into her whicker basket...

[WhosThatGirl]

For me it wasn’t about Riverdale taking itself too seriously, I just think they bought a lot of the good press they got last season and made a different show and a very different tone and did a lot of stories and had no real cohesive story. Honestly he Black hood didn’t work for me during anytime this season.

All the same I liked the finale. I loved  the Bughead moments. But yeah. The season was still messy for me. Some good moments but more misses than hits for me.

Thats why I am a little nervous about these cliffhangers for season three. As I said, how long do they think they can sustain a story where the gang has to clear Archie’s name? I feel like this Cassidy murder can be cleared up fast and I know it’s a tv show and it’s THIs tv show so obviously it’s going to be filled with unbelievable drama to keep it going. But still.

I hope chic never returns but he probably will. I just don’t get the HD love.

Im not really into a cult storyline but maybe it will be different.

As for Kevin and Moose like I said,

kevin can do better. Moose and Kevin hooked up pre the show and the pilot But moose never wanted to come out, I can’t imagine he’s going to come out now. He’s probably just looking to hook up in secret again.

[Snookums]

Quote

I don't get why it was a better plan for Veronica to get Pop's than the Worm, unless it's a thing where it's "better" because now all the Whos down in Whoville can hold hands and sing on the North side and, in so doing, defeat Hiram's evil plan somehow.

 

I don't either! With Hiram's demands she seems in a weaker position than ever, and she's known about her parents buying Pop's for ages: why doe she suddenly care now, out of nowhere? It seems to me that Hiram wanted the Worm a lot more than he ever cared about Pop's and she could have held out for much more. It's like they're playing hot potato with that million bucks in ransom money (seriously, does NOBODY in the New York crime syndicate care about this??? Isn't it a serious breach of etiquette, so to speak, that renders Hiram's family beneath contempt? Add this to the Poutine crap and Hiram should have damn target on his back.)

I agree with the posters who mentioned that Moose was truly brokenhearted over Midge; again, on the type of show that would usually treat the brutal slaughter of a teenager by a serial killer as simply a plot point, they actually had someone weeping over her death and how callously her memorial was treated. The only other person who seemed to care deeply was her mother, which A) DUH and B) she didn't exactly handle her pain fabulously well, although she can take comfort in the fact that now she'll only go to jail for attempted murder.

[thuganomics85]

Damn, they gave Hal the full Hannibal Lector treatment, with the glass prison and everything!  Not to diminish Midge's death or anything, but I'm not sure Hal is worthy of that, because he actually was pretty ineffective at the whole killing thing, since most of his attended victims survived, and it took him two times to actually kill the one he did.

For someone who sure looked to be knocking on death's door last week, Jughead certainly seemed to recover pretty quickly after that beatdown!  And now he's the new leader of the Southside Serpents!  Because nothing screams "biker gang" more than one that is lead by a high school kid!  Then again, it feels like half of the gang consist of kids, really.  And they've even got a new one in the form of Cheryl, whose got a fancy red jacket to go with it, because even they know not make her wear black!  They also didn't put her through the kind initiation that Jughead went through.  Really, the more I try to figure out the operations and mindsets of the Southside Serpents, the more confusing they get.

Really don't understand Hiram's grand plan to cut off those meddling kids, by having Archie take the fall for that gas station attendant/robber's murder.  If anything, wouldn't that make them more gung-ho to work together to clear Archie's name, and set their sites on Hiram and his Legion of Doom?  Granted, the fact that Hiram is having so many issues with taking on high school students, kind of makes it hard to believe he's that tough of a gangster.

I also not sure what's going on with Veronica's plan with owning Pop's.  I guess it is nice and all, but is it really worth her giving up all of her money and power in Lodge Industries?

Hey, Polly's back, and she's apparently been brainwashed by "The Farm" and is trying to recruit poor Alice.  Pretty ridiculous, but I'm guessing Tiera Skovbye is probably happy her character will possibly have more significance next season, now that Once Upon a Time is done for.

Heromine wins the mayor race in the end, but possibly/hopefully won't just do what Hiram says, since she seems to be on to him.  Meanwhile, freaking Archie of all people wins the Student President after everyone else pretty much drops out, but I'm guessing the whole arrest will change that.  Does this mean it's going to go to Ethel?!

Overall, not as good as the first season (really get the sense this is one of those shows that should stick with thirteen episodes, because twenty-two is just too much for them), but I'm still getting a kick out of all the craziness, silliness, and sometimes flat-out insanity that happens.  But as long as Camila Mendes and Madelaine Petsch are around to continue to be awesome and hot, I ain't going anywhere!

[dcalley]

Josie: "Don't forget about Ethel Muggs, who's running as a third-party candidate."

Parties, in a high school election? Hmm. OK, let's say there were parties. There were three tickets plus Ethel (did she have a running mate?), so were two of the duos from the same party, or...? This is stupid and I laughed, both at the show and at myself for focusing on it. Mentioning parties was just so unnecessary! "Don't forget about Ethel!" There, was that so hard?

[asabovesobelow]

I don't know, I think at least three, four, maybe five times throughout the hour, I asked "WTF am I even watching?" 

I still like the show, I do. But they really, really, really should have considered making the teens older than 15, 16. (Watching Betty sit up on Jughead in bed like that...eek.)

I'm not sure I would have started watching last season if I'd known the show was going to be focused on gangs, mafia, teens buying/selling real estate while negotiating ransom fees in the background, cults...I'm sure I'm missing a few. 

Cheryl is probably my favorite. I cringe when starts speaking in Shakespearean tongues, but that's one of the least odd things that this group of teens do.

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah.. I’m thinking about all the cliffhangers they have for next season and I don’t think I find any interesting. I mean don’t get me wrong I’m going to stick around for the bughead of it all but if they mess with that too much like they did this season.. I don’t know.

Im not into a cult storyline. It’s been done before. Archie being arrested for a crime he didn’t commit as I said seems really dumb and that it’s going to be really hard for the show to keep that plot moving forward. And speaking of that, that includes Hiram Lodge and I gotta be real, he’s not that good of a character. Not only is he just evil for evil sakes, he’s kind of boring and just.. pretty predictable with his actions. And anytime they talked about his business of the prison it was just boring as hell. I’m not looking forward to watching Veronica deal with business stuff of owning a diner/speakeasy.

I hope the kids at one point next season can go back to talking about a dance or something, at least in one episode.

[HunterHunted]

4 hours ago, asabovesobelow said:

I don't know, I think at least three, four, maybe five times throughout the hour, I asked "WTF am I even watching?" 

I still like the show, I do. But they really, really, really should have considered making the teens older than 15, 16. (Watching Betty sit up on Jughead in bed like that...eek.)

I'm not sure I would have started watching last season if I'd known the show was going to be focused on gangs, mafia, teens buying/selling real estate while negotiating ransom fees in the background, cults...I'm sure I'm missing a few. 

Cheryl is probably my favorite. I cringe when starts speaking in Shakespearean tongues, but that's one of the least odd things that this group of teens do.

I really thought it would be a little camp, a little noir, and teenage Twin Peaks.

I can handle some of the stories, but only to an extent. Veronica Mars had storylines about gangs, but it never dwelled on the tedious ins a and outs of it. The mafia and the real estate storylines have been the absolute worst parts of this season. You actually need a really solid understanding of a subject to depict it with any depth or in an entertaining, but superficial fashion. The show doesn't come close to even understanding the mafia in a way well enough to attempt the mafia story. Even worse, it was boring. Even worse than all that is that it was done for plot reasons and not character reasons.

How much better would the mafia story have been if had been solely about Veronica slowly discovering about her family. In season 1, she thought her family was white collar shady. Imagine if season 2 had been Veronica discovering the more violent criminal side of her family and not just her blithely going along with her parents schemes. It would have been so much stronger if that Agent Adams ploy was with Veronica instead of Archie.

So much of this season was stories done for plot rather than character reasons. It's how Hal ended up as the Black Hood with the victims that he targeted seemingly out of nowhere.

[the-grey-lady]

Trying to parse FP's logic here.

"We're moving to Toledo! I won't identify my son in a body bag!"

[a few days later]

"All hail my son, the new leader of a violent gang!"

Um, what?

Edited May 19, 2018 by the-grey-lady

[WhosThatGirl]

51 minutes ago, the-grey-lady said:

Trying to parse FP's logic here.

"We're moving to Toledo! I won't identify my son in a body bag!"

[a few days later]

"All hail my son, the a new leader of a violent gang!"

Um, what?

Expecting the show to remember anything from the past(even a last scene in the same episode) is asking for a lot this season. Just saying.

[catrice2]

I tried to watch the episode today and I just couldn't.  I had to fast forward through most of it.  I used to like Cheryl, but even she is annoying now.  Season 1 was so promising...I have no idea what this season was.   

[PeekaBoo]

5 hours ago, the-grey-lady said:

Trying to parse FP's logic here.

"We're moving to Toledo! I won't identify my son in a body bag!"

[a few days later]

"All hail my son, the a new leader of a violent gang!"

Um, what?

I know! I still have to rewatch the episode again but I was thinking of FP  and what he had said and was like... did i miss something? And the drinking?

Why? I mean... just why? 

I hate these plot holes (if they even are that)

So he doesn't want his kid to die as a gang member but he'd rather retire and make his kid the leader which is worst? Sigh.... 

Im going to have to post my post ep comments soon....

Edited May 19, 2018 by PeekaBoo
Really hates typing from a cell phone...grr

[Scott]

Caught up on the last couple episodes this weekend.  I think I'm done for good.

[Mabinogia]

Yeah, that was it for me. They took all the fun out of the show and left gang violence and mafia wars. That's not what I signed up for. Pity. I really do like the cast.

[SourK]

On 5/18/2018 at 6:58 AM, dcalley said:

Josie: "Don't forget about Ethel Muggs, who's running as a third-party candidate."

Parties, in a high school election? Hmm. OK, let's say there were parties. There were three tickets plus Ethel (did she have a running mate?), so were two of the duos from the same party, or...? This is stupid and I laughed, both at the show and at myself for focusing on it. Mentioning parties was just so unnecessary! "Don't forget about Ethel!" There, was that so hard?

Yeah, that didn't make sense. On top of that, I thought it was setting us up for an outcome where all of the other characters drop out and Ethel is the president, which would have been an interesting turn of events, but no... Archie stays in by himself and wins. Speaking of which -- they all seemed to think you needed a running mate for this election (which I've never heard of in high school before, but I'm not American, so whatever, maybe it's real) -- why did Archie suddenly NOT need a running mate after Veronica dropped out?

On 5/18/2018 at 8:01 PM, the-grey-lady said:

Trying to parse FP's logic here.

"We're moving to Toledo! I won't identify my son in a body bag!"

[a few days later]

"All hail my son, the new leader of a violent gang!"

Um, what?

I 100% thought his plan this episode was to ditch his son in Riverdale and go to Toledo himself. 100%. Didn't even question it. And then, when Veronica said he could run the speakeasy, I did a double-take, and said, "Wait, is he not still moving to Toledo? Why is he leaving the gang if he's not moving to Toledo?" And... yeah, why is he leaving the gang if he's not moving to Toledo? I mean, he already doesn't care about his parole violations, so... did he just realize it was a gang of kids?

[WhosThatGirl]

5 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

Yeah, that was it for me. They took all the fun out of the show and left gang violence and mafia wars. That's not what I signed up for. Pity. I really do like the cast.

Yeah. I think I’m still in it but it’s hard not to remember what could have been. It’s odd to think this version of the show actually has viewers who enjoy it, but they do and that’s cool. I’m just not one of them. It is a completely different show than it was in the first season and the characters are totally different now too.

 I fully expect them to be really different from this season next season though. A part of me thinks it will be hilarious for the characters to shift and be different versions from season one and two or to go back to being who they were in season one. Who knows.

Edited May 22, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[PeekaBoo]

Ok, a bit late in sharing thoughts but here it goes...

For the first time, in a long time, I feel at peace with the season ending! It wasn't the big "duh-duh" who dunnit twist but twisty enough that you did managed (well I did at least) to be surprised because seriously, I did not expect that! I'll come back to that...

A bit cheesy that they played on "Jughead is dead?" thing prior to the last episode but whatever it's done and he snapped out of his coma right away... It was a sneaky way to get a bit of a time jump but I'll forgive them for that. You sorta gotta give Jughead a boyfriend-of-the-year award when one of the first things he asks about is Betty, awww, those two!

As per my previous post, I don't really know what FP was up to with the drinking/move to Toledo/hand over reign to Jughead instead, maybe he has the same condition that Jughead has, a multiple personality thing that changes within one episode or something? (shrugs) And Now thinking more about it, I'm wondering whether he came up the whole "lets move to Toledo" thing in a drunken stupor, same with giving the reigns over to Jughead, he'd be like once sobered up "damn, that wasn't what I was meant to say" so nah, those two parts just didn't make sense but what did come through is that we saw more of FP's failings/weaknesses as a parent, he still isn't out of the woods when it comes to his demons. That will be interesting to see in s3.

The whole Betty seeing Hal in prison and the lighting at the end when she walks off, sweet! Had so much silence of the lambs- feels.

I'm wondering what FP said to Alice in the scenes that were cut for the episode because poor alice seemed so broken after everything that happened.  And Polly coming in and deciding to "help her" with that shady "dude" from the farm, is anyone hoping it might be Jason Priestly making an appearance :D :D :D? Yeah, I'm probably one of the few....  ENTER the S3 bad guy (and evil Polly), I'm all for the Farm thing but I wouldn't want Betty to be pulled away from the others as what happened this season....

 As for Varchie, eugh... Kudos to Veronica for going against her dad that way, that must've taken a lot of guts.. Why I don't understand how Pops was more interesting than the Wyrm but ok... I'm sorta wondering but I'd like to think that POPS is worth close to 1million dollars? I can't manage to think that 1 million can cover the building + the running of for more than a few months at most....

 It will be interesting to see how the hell the Lodges are going to live under one roof when you have  Evil Dad there mwahahahing his evil achievements stringing along Mother Mayor to do his bidding and Pennyless Princess finding out how the harsh reality without dollars growing from a tree... Wow 

Ohhh the Jarchie scenes... they are and will always be brothers for life... All the scenes, fluffy and just oh-so-cute....

I finally have respect for Archie! my god! When he stood up to Hiram like that, I was totally rooting for him! The boy made his damn bones (even if he didn't kill anyone). HIs last scene with Hiram really worked well! so yes, kudos to the show for redeeming Archie! I know they pinned the blame on TallBoy being BH2 but I am no buying it at all....

Bughead---ohhh my precious babies! Cute scenes, love the hotel thing (which I think is all from veronica's help). I don't really know how to interpret the whole serpent queen thing... I think it's more of a commitment thing (near to a proposal imo) that you say during an afterglow/pillow talk/drunken thing than "stand by me and join the dark side" thing.... I can't wait to see how that will develop.

And Hiram and his league of evil doers... (eye roll).

And the ending, omfg... Well played Hiram!!! That's all I can say!

They really did set out S3 nicely... And you sorta do realize that Archie is the glue holding everyone together and it will be very interesting to see how/if that will change relationships and I can't wait to see how ARchie will tackle prison/juvie. I personally think everyone will just assemble and unite to free Archie but who knows... And it sounds like the show is going to get another one of those after-school-bar-club-for-the-kids-where-cool-bands-will-play-and-fight-and-hooks-up-happen lol! Typical!

It's a shame that some people are dropping the show but totally understandable... I don't know why i'm going to continue watching it but I love this show so much! I won't lie though that my love has fainted a bit but I'll stick around unless they do even crazier stuff next season (doubt they'll be as bad though). And like you previously said WTG, it's very weird to think that people like th show how it is now... oh man...

One thing I'm already prepared for is forgetting what I know about the characters and see how they will change it for next season lol lol! Trying to figure out Gladys will be pointless at this time since she'll most likely be written differently when she comes along...

Like I started out with, I'm ok with th season ending! I can patiently wait until autumn and see what they manage to pull out!

[AdorkableSars]

I'm basically a week late in commenting...wasssssssup, y'all! Pretty much everything has been said, and thank you all for your great posts!

On 5/16/2018 at 7:15 PM, Jeddah said:

Fangs is alive! Maybe he’ll get more lines next season.

I was so happy about Fangs being alive too! And I really hope he gets more lines next season as well. I also hope that Josie gets more lines. And Kevin. And Fred. And Polly. And Juniper and Dagwood. 

On 5/16/2018 at 7:36 PM, HunterHunted said:

I don't know how to view Moose and Kevin. Grief sex because he needs some physical comfort or he's just a teenage boy and always horny.

This! I don't know if I was supposed to find Moose and Kevin cute, but I did not. He went from crying over Midge to Kevin's tongue down his throat in the blink of an eye. I don't think they're sweet - Moose chose to stay with Midge over being with Kevin. He had no problem having Kevin as a side piece, but wouldn't commit to more? It makes me feel bad for Kevin and Midge (RIP). I still wholeheartedly ship Kevin and Fangs. 

On 5/16/2018 at 7:44 PM, notcreative enough said:

I can see Cheryl being a great number 2 for Jughead and the Serpents. Betty might be queen but Cheryl should be VP. She seemed to really get along with the other Serpents. 

THIS!  I loved Cheryl being such an amazing ally for the Serpents this episode. She is badass but she has a heart, and this seems to be a case with most of the Serpents. The scene where Jughead (the new Serpent King...which, WTF?) put the red Serpents jacket on her was so epic. I would love to see more Jughead/Cheryl scenes next season. I think there's potential there for an incredible friendship. 

On 5/18/2018 at 6:01 PM, the-grey-lady said:

Trying to parse FP's logic here.

"We're moving to Toledo! I won't identify my son in a body bag!"

[a few days later]

"All hail my son, the new leader of a violent gang!"

Um, what?

HAHAHA!!!!!! This is great! Thanks for the laugh! But also, truth. What the hell FP? I'm not sure I love the development of Jughead being the new "leader" of the Serpents. But we'll see where it goes, I guess!

When I was 16, I was baking 5 cakes a year for the Backstreet Boys' birthdays...Veronica is buying bars/diners. Cool, cool, cool...

I really enjoyed all of the Jughead/Archie scenes. To me, their friendship is the most important relationship on the show. And I say that as a huge Bughead fan. But the friendship/brotherhood between Jughead and Archie truly ties so many stories together. 

[Pindrop]

This show is ridiculous. I assume the writers must have a competition to come up with the most absurd and unbelievable plot development and the winner gets to write the next scene. 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Pindrop

[WhosThatGirl]

5 minutes ago, Pindrop said:

This show is ridiculous. I assume the writers must have a competition to come up with the most absurd and unbelievable plot development and the winner gets to write the next scene. 

For me it feels like they all come up with different ideas and then realize none of them match up together but then just go “what the hell” and put it together in one episode and just see where it goes. 

[phoenics]

Well that was one action packed and heart-stopping finale.

But you know your show is a failure if the lead character is arrested for murder and you simply don't care and laugh outloud at him for being so stupid.

I actually felt relief that it wasn't anything of consequence.

And Archie's the one holding them together?  Okay show, if you say so.

I watched the last 5 or so episodes in a marathon - and it was highly enjoyable - when you stop trying to make the show make sense and just enjoy it it's fine.  It's batsh!t insane, but fine.

Edited May 26, 2018 by phoenics

[WhosThatGirl]

1 minute ago, phoenics said:

Well that was one action packed and heart-stopping finale.

But you know your show is a failure if the lead character is arrested for murder and you simply don't care and laugh outloud at him for being so stupid.

I actually felt relief that it wasn't anything of consequence.

And Archie's the one holding them together?  Okay show, if you say so.

Yeah.. again I just don’t know how this is going to work next season? It makes no sense to me and I don’t understand and I hope they don’t try to make it a season long arc because.. as we saw this long 22 episode arc of the Black hood did not go well, how is this framing for Archie for murder that he didn’t do going to last and be good?

Also I’m wondering why Hiram didn’t try and frame Archie for something with Nick st Clair? Archie actually did hurt him and Veronica did drug him, there’s acually legs to that. Plus it would get Hiram back with the ST Clair’s and he could start doing business with them again.

I just don’t see them putting Archie through juive or anything like that. I mean really.. Archie’s a main character and that would separate him from the others.. and when they tried that with one of their main characters this season, it didn’t really go well.

So I honestly don’t know how next season is going to go. To me it seems like they’re writing themselves into corners like they did this season for next year. 

[Pindrop]

58 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yeah.. again I just don’t know how this is going to work next season? It makes no sense to me and I don’t understand and I hope they don’t try to make it a season long arc because.. as we saw this long 22 episode arc of the Black hood did not go well, how is this framing for Archie for murder that he didn’t do going to last and be good?

Also I’m wondering why Hiram didn’t try and frame Archie for something with Nick st Clair? Archie actually did hurt him and Veronica did drug him, there’s acually legs to that. Plus it would get Hiram back with the ST Clair’s and he could start doing business with them again.

I just don’t see them putting Archie through juive or anything like that. I mean really.. Archie’s a main character and that would separate him from the others.. and when they tried that with one of their main characters this season, it didn’t really go well.

So I honestly don’t know how next season is going to go. To me it seems like they’re writing themselves into corners like they did this season for next year. 

I have some predictions; given that these shows feel the need to escalate the drama season after season in order to hold viewers, I predict: -

• A plane crashing into the high school. 
• Cyborg sent from the future to kill Archie before he can lead the resistance. 
• A rampaging dinosaur brought to life from a mosquito in amber during a science class. 
• Zombie apocalypse. 
• Lizard men wearing human suits. 

[WhosThatGirl]

18 hours ago, Pindrop said:

I have some predictions; given that these shows feel the need to escalate the drama season after season in order to hold viewers, I predict: -

• A plane crashing into the high school. 
• Cyborg sent from the future to kill Archie before he can lead the resistance. 
• A rampaging dinosaur brought to life from a mosquito in amber during a science class. 
• Zombie apocalypse. 
• Lizard men wearing human suits. 

Sadly none of this seems impossible  this show now. 

Eta: hours later and yeah as much as I’ll orobably still keep watching this show, I’m still really uncertain of what they appear to be doing with it now. It also seems like as I said in my earlier post they didn’t learn much from this season, but hopefully they did. I just worry they plan on keeping Archie separated from the group and when they tried that this season it really didn’t work out. I just don’t see Archie being framed for murder he didn’t do a good story. I really don’t understand why the show didn’t pick something Archie actually had a hand in doing, like anything with Nick. This story is really just stupid. And a dumb cliffhanger if you ask me. I’m sure the shows going to come up with ridiculous ways to keep it going but seriously.. kind of dumb. At least the Bh cliffhanger last year was intense and could have been a good idea(what the show ended up doing was real stupid but I digress), this is just kind of a silly cliffhanger.

Edited May 27, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[Pindrop]

17 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Sadly none of this seems impossible  this show now. 

Eta: hours later and yeah as much as I’ll orobably still keep watching this show, I’m still really uncertain of what they appear to be doing with it now. It also seems like as I said in my earlier post they didn’t learn much from this season, but hopefully they did. I just worry they plan on keeping Archie separated from the group and when they tried that this season it really didn’t work out. I just don’t see Archie being framed for murder he didn’t do a good story. I really don’t understand why the show didn’t pick something Archie actually had a hand in doing, like anything with Nick. This story is really just stupid. And a dumb cliffhanger if you ask me. I’m sure the shows going to come up with ridiculous ways to keep it going but seriously.. kind of dumb. At least the Bh cliffhanger last year was intense and could have been a good idea(what the show ended up doing was real stupid but I digress), this is just kind of a silly cliffhanger.

 

Yes, we are now going to have to sit through the following: -

• Hiram Lodge trying to blackmail Archie with some withheld evidence of his innocence. 
• The rest of the gang coming together in an effort to prove Archie's innocence. 
• Archie navigating jail, becoming the target of the big-bad, proving himself, getting taken under the wing of the big-bad. 
• Luke Perry nearly losing/abondoning his campaign until Archie is released on the eve of the vote, and then making a concerted comeback. 

Yawn, just get on with it. 

Edited May 27, 2018 by Pindrop

[PeekaBoo]

Man, am I the only one liking the end?

Yeah, ok, it wasn't mindblowing or anything like that, but it sorta like "toned" down the show a bit, maybe they won't go THAT crazy next season with crazy stories about hooded men? (one can surely hope so...)

Hiram will most likely have the upper hand in 3a, ruling rivredale with an iron fist, the ghoulies drugging up the town,  and finding the time to taunt ARchie (and maybe turning Veronica at the same time?) before du-duh, he gets taking down somehow...

And yeah, who knows if the "gang" will come together or maybe they'll split a part for a while (would explain broody-jughead making a come back as per the rumors) even if imo, I don't see that happening whatsoever...

And seeing the struggles of freeing ARchie and the drama involved,  I personally think will be very interesting to see...

But then again, you add the probable Farm storyline in and BH2 (if it REALLY is done and dealt with), they might still go batshit crazy.... (eye roll)…

[WhosThatGirl]

8 hours ago, Pindrop said:

Yes, we are now going to have to sit through the following: -

• Hiram Lodge trying to blackmail Archie with some withheld evidence of his innocence. 
• The rest of the gang coming together in an effort to prove Archie's innocence. 
• Archie navigating jail, becoming the target of the big-bad, proving himself, getting taken under the wing of the big-bad. 
• Luke Perry nearly losing/abondoning his campaign until Archie is released on the eve of the vote, and then making a concerted comeback. 

Yawn, just get on with it. 

 

They already did the election though and Fred lost.  Also I don’t see them putting Archie in any jail situation but I could be wrong. It seems like a bad idea to keep him apart from the others, wasn’t that a big problem for them this season?  The core four having their own stories and hardly interacting? I guess they learned nothing.

I just don’t see this story being any good next season.

Also I’m not excited to watch the other big story which is the cult story. I’ve seen that a million times over on tv shows. 

Edited May 27, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[Pindrop]

9 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

They already did the election though and Fred lost.  Also I don’t see them putting Archie in any jail situation but I could be wrong. It seems like a bad idea to keep him apart from the others, wasn’t that a big problem for them this season?  The core four having their own stories and hardly interacting? I guess they learned nothing.

I just don’t see this story being any good next season.

Also I’m not excited to watch the other big story which is the cult story. I’ve seen that a million times over on tv shows. 

Did they? Shows how much attention I was paying by the end. 

[WhosThatGirl]

1 hour ago, Pindrop said:

Did they? Shows how much attention I was paying by the end. 

Yeah it was a small scene but he lost and then Hermione came by to say he did a good job running and she looked a little sad that she had won. But yeah. It was a scene in an episode that had quite a lot going on so it’s understandable if you missed it.

Edited May 27, 2018 by WhosThatGirl

[leslieo54]

On 5/23/2018 at 9:18 AM, AdorkableSars said:

When I was 16, I was baking 5 cakes a year for the Backstreet Boys' birthdays...Veronica is buying bars/diners. Cool, cool, cool...

Thank you for this - I laughed out loud. Mainly because it was so relatable ?

[phoenics]

On 5/27/2018 at 7:35 AM, PeekaBoo said:

Man, am I the only one liking the end?

Yeah, ok, it wasn't mindblowing or anything like that, but it sorta like "toned" down the show a bit, maybe they won't go THAT crazy next season with crazy stories about hooded men? (one can surely hope so...)

Hiram will most likely have the upper hand in 3a, ruling rivredale with an iron fist, the ghoulies drugging up the town,  and finding the time to taunt ARchie (and maybe turning Veronica at the same time?) before du-duh, he gets taking down somehow...

And yeah, who knows if the "gang" will come together or maybe they'll split a part for a while (would explain broody-jughead making a come back as per the rumors) even if imo, I don't see that happening whatsoever...

And seeing the struggles of freeing ARchie and the drama involved,  I personally think will be very interesting to see...

But then again, you add the probable Farm storyline in and BH2 (if it REALLY is done and dealt with), they might still go batshit crazy.... (eye roll)…

Honestly I took a huge breath of relief that the ending was only about Archie being framed... One, because I think Archie is just useless, lol, and two, because it DID tone things down a lot.

Hiram having his little circle of doom is funny.  Cheryl's mom really wants to run a brothel?  Who aspires to that?  I mean, really?!  And Sheriff Blandface has no personality whatsoever.  He's fine as hell but - zippo on the personality factor.  The Ghoulies actually scare me.

I thought the season was fine and really appreciated how they brought everything together in the last 5-6 episodes.  Really good season - just too dark.  But in terms of the plotting and twists and turns - it was extremely good.

Although Betty's dad's eyes aren't green like that - which makes me wonder if that was the original killer in the minds of the writers or if they just did that to throw us off of her dad as the BH (because many of us suspected him from jump after the calls came to Betty).

I'm so here for Season 3.

[NutMeg]

On 5/26/2018 at 1:49 PM, WhosThatGirl said:

Sadly none of this seems impossible  this show now. 

Eta: hours later and yeah as much as I’ll orobably still keep watching this show, I’m still really uncertain of what they appear to be doing with it now. It also seems like as I said in my earlier post they didn’t learn much from this season, but hopefully they did. I just worry they plan on keeping Archie separated from the group and when they tried that this season it really didn’t work out. I just don’t see Archie being framed for murder he didn’t do a good story. I really don’t understand why the show didn’t pick something Archie actually had a hand in doing, like anything with Nick. This story is really just stupid. And a dumb cliffhanger if you ask me. I’m sure the shows going to come up with ridiculous ways to keep it going but seriously.. kind of dumb. At least the Bh cliffhanger last year was intense and could have been a good idea(what the show ended up doing was real stupid but I digress), this is just kind of a silly cliffhanger.

Don't sweat it, all will be resolved in no time. But other problems will appear.

[WhosThatGirl]

3 hours ago, NutMeg said:

Don't sweat it, all will be resolved in no time. But other problems will appear.

Eh, I’m pretty sure the main arc is probably going to be proving Archie’s innocence next season. And my guess is it will go over as good as the Black hood arc did this season. 

[TaylorBruh25]

On 5/18/2018 at 3:37 PM, HunterHunted said:

I really thought it would be a little camp, a little noir, and teenage Twin Peaks.

I can handle some of the stories, but only to an extent. Veronica Mars had storylines about gangs, but it never dwelled on the tedious ins a and outs of it. The mafia and the real estate storylines have been the absolute worst parts of this season. You actually need a really solid understanding of a subject to depict it with any depth or in an entertaining, but superficial fashion. The show doesn't come close to even understanding the mafia in a way well enough to attempt the mafia story. Even worse, it was boring. Even worse than all that is that it was done for plot reasons and not character reasons.

How much better would the mafia story have been if had been solely about Veronica slowly discovering about her family. In season 1, she thought her family was white collar shady. Imagine if season 2 had been Veronica discovering the more violent criminal side of her family and not just her blithely going along with her parents schemes. It would have been so much stronger if that Agent Adams ploy was with Veronica instead of Archie.

So much of this season was stories done for plot rather than character reasons. It's how Hal ended up as the Black Hood with the victims that he targeted seemingly out of nowhere.

I definitely would’ve favored Hiram first, convincing Hermoine for 5 or so Episodes, then Veronica the rest of the season. Save Archie/Hiram for S3 and at one point have them actually run Riverdale as a powerful unit, I’m all for the leads going bad when it’s well developed, which they completely blew with Veronica this season. 

[WhosThatGirl]

Eh. I mean I know I’ve said it a million times but this season was such a hot mess for me. I knew it was going to end up being this way at the end, but I was still hoping. And yeah we had a few good moments here and there in this season but otherwise I really prefer season one. I’m not sure what season 3 is going to be like and based off the terrible cliffhanger we got , I don’t think it’s going to be good.

[TaylorBruh25]

On 5/26/2018 at 12:23 AM, phoenics said:

Well that was one action packed and heart-stopping finale.

But you know your show is a failure if the lead character is arrested for murder and you simply don't care and laugh outloud at him for being so stupid.

I actually felt relief that it wasn't anything of consequence.

And Archie's the one holding them together?  Okay show, if you say so.

I watched the last 5 or so episodes in a marathon - and it was highly enjoyable - when you stop trying to make the show make sense and just enjoy it it's fine.  It's batsh!t insane, but fine.

 

Works for me, most relatable, and had the only arc that felt any type of complete this season. 

Archie: Small town athlete, who isn’t afraid of confrontation and getting his hands dirty watches his father get shot, to which the PTSD drives him to another powerful father figure that seems near invincible and clings to be like him because he feels weak, and wants to change that to protect those he loves. Young manipulated teenager eventually loses himself in the dangers of thinking he’s invincible himself (Dark Circle/Cassidy not being able to hurt him) he becomes different more and more until he sees certain powerful role model IS manipulating, uncaring, and overall nothing like he thought, because he’s a naive teenager. Eventually turns on said role model, knows that he has to take a stand against him and tells him he hasn’t won, so the bad guy doesn’t think he has the power over an entire town, yes this move costs him, but it will probably unite everyone he knows against Hiram. 

 

Jughead: loner/outcasts who’s 100 lbs wet, and was shown not to be a fighter or interested in criminal activity, because his father is in jail, has the opposite of a normal effect and makes him go full gangster to where he’s laying his life on the line for people he’s known 3 months. He’s now making un thought decisions and jumping in everyone’s stuff(like S1 Archie) and in the end is somehow running this apparently decades long gang even though he’s 15 and has been in for 3 months. Makes sense. 

 

Betty: The innocent girl next door who was afraid of confrontation, and was a little bubbly and emotionally abused at home is now 1 step away from murderer because her “brother” is now found and can somehow weirdly help with what we’re calling her BDSM sexuality? Oh and she’s BatGirl. Sure. 

 

Veronica: Rich girl from NY who’s trying to start a new, and does, now has her Father back and is...trying to run the company with him? So much so that she involuntarily agrees to be party to her families criminal intentions? She’s also a master negotiator beating her father in his plans and 1 upping him not once, but twice. She also apparently did drugs in NY. 

 

Point being Archie was the only story to have a point get across it. Which even in fantasy comic books series you have to do. Lead character makes sense. 

Edited June 7, 2018 by TaylorBruh25

[Affogato]

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 12:23 AM, phoenics said:

Well that was one action packed and heart-stopping finale.

But you know your show is a failure if the lead character is arrested for murder and you simply don't care and laugh outloud at him for being so stupid.

I actually felt relief that it wasn't anything of consequence.

And Archie's the one holding them together?  Okay show, if you say so.

I watched the last 5 or so episodes in a marathon - and it was highly enjoyable - when you stop trying to make the show make sense and just enjoy it it's fine.  It's batsh!t insane, but fine.

I just watched the last five episodes in a marathon and they really flowed well and hung together. Mostly it makes sense. If you choose to wear the Black Hood you become the Black Hood and it changes you, I kept on thinking that Betty would find green contacts along with the code book. I'm pretty sure Chic and the black hood will show up next season, but not as the main arc. I'm sure Hiram will want to continue using the black hood to terrorize the town

. I'm hoping for a supernatural element, not Sabrina (of course). Alice seems like she might want to reach out to the real son through the veil between life and death? Let's hope this won't precipitate a zombie apocalypse. 

Spoiler

like in the comics 

I think. Hiram's group of families isn't the mafia, or a latino equivalent, they are something else. There may be enough internal consistency to figure it out, they seem also like some alien and ingrown culture (which would explain them all focusing on one town) and I would be delighted to find out they are from mars, but probably not. 

I don't know what age everyone is, fifteen seems completely unlikely but they are just getting into driving, so sophomore is about right? It seems unlikely sophmores would be physically grown enough to have the top football positions and well known and experienced enough to be  leaders of the cheerleading squad, and be voted in as president of the student council, and look old enough to be  let into any nightlub anywhere in the country ( much less own one) but they are an amazing group of kids, I guess.  I suppose that they will settle somewhere in junior/senior year, like in the comics. 

[WhosThatGirl]

According to the shows first season and this season, they’re still in sophomore year (at least the core four are, not sure about Cheryl’s age) and I have a feeling the show is going to try and keep them there for a while to avoid having to deal with them graduating.

Anyways.. I personally still think the season was a hot mess and the ending didn’t make sense. Also I hope chic doesn’t return next season. He was the worst.

[Pindrop]

My problem with this show isn't that it is crazy; crazy can be fun. It is two-fold: -

1) It had the opportunity to be a Twin-Peaks for the current generation, and it missed that opportunity. 

2) There is too much crazy; too many storylines with threads that are left hanging or become lost in the plethora of random shit that is going on elsewhere, and too many contrivances to sew up earlier dangling threads in an unsatisfying way. 

They need to cut out half the sub-plots and just properly plot, write and execute an A, B and C, and if they do that they can be as crazy as they like. 

Edited June 11, 2018 by Pindrop

[WhosThatGirl]

4 hours ago, Pindrop said:

My problem with this show isn't that it is crazy; crazy can be fun. It is two-fold: -

1) It had the opportunity to be a Twin-Peaks for the current generation, and it missed that opportunity. 

2) There is too much crazy; too many storylines with threads that are left hanging or become lost in the plethora of random shit that is going on elsewhere, and too many contrivances to sew up earlier dangling threads in an unsatisfying way. 

They need to cut out half the sub-plots and just properly plot, write and execute an A, B and C, and if they do that they can be as crazy as they like. 

This is my problem too. And also I agree they can be crazy but they also try to have it both ways where they want to be crazy but then they don’t want to be crazy. I don’t know.  Also I still stand by that last season was more cohesive. I think this show works better with 13 episodes and not a full season.

[Pindrop]

13 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

This is my problem too. And also I agree they can be crazy but they also try to have it both ways where they want to be crazy but then they don’t want to be crazy. I don’t know.  Also I still stand by that last season was more cohesive. I think this show works better with 13 episodes and not a full season.

Yes, once you have jumped the shark, you can't then ask people to take you seriously (or once you have become ridiculous you cannot expect not to be ridiculed). 

Edited June 11, 2018 by Pindrop

[WhosThatGirl]

45 minutes ago, Pindrop said:

Yes, once you have jumped the shark, you can't then ask people to take you seriously (or once you have become ridiculous you cannot expect not to be ridiculed). 

Yeah. I can get behind crazy if the show was going to stay there but the show isn’t and also they still want viewers to be invested and take out serious as well. They want it both ways. Or they want to have different shows going on at the same time.. I don’t know. 

I really really miss the first season.

[Last Time Lord]

So... the bad guy wins. 

And not just by a little, either. This was practically a clean sweep for Hiram. 

He got everything he wanted, plus getting Archie arrested on trumped up murder charges. 

But at least Pop’s is no longer under his control. 

 

I joke, but I absolutely adore this ridiculous show and hope they go more and more into the crazy. 

Expecting big, absolutely insane things from the writer of Afterlife With Archie and what he can really do in this melodrama/telenovela. 

[PeekaBoo]

NOOOO! No more CRAZY!!! No more batshit crazy shit! Please!!! pretty please!! LOL!

I'm glad you enjoyed it!

Yeah, the show's freaking crazy and a bit too much for that matter and as much as I want the crazy shit to be toned down, I doubt it'll ever happen in this lifetime! (sigh)….

Gah, despite the weak writing and crazy storylines, RAS manages to pull through....

[queenanne]

On 5/16/2018 at 9:15 PM, Jeddah said:

Fangs is alive! Maybe he’ll get more lines next season.

Jughead and Betty are too cute. It’s just ridiculous how cute. I mean, they were taking care of cute babies together! It’s too much cuteness.

As for Betty being the Serpent Queen, didn’t she already join the Serpents? 

I want a Nana Rose, Cheryl, and Toni spinoff.

Of course there’s a speakeasy in the basement of Pop’s. It’s like the Peach Pit After Dark!

Well, was Archie expecting Hiram to just give up? Poor stupid Archie.

Yeah, I don't understand the Serpents thing.  Either Betty should already be a legacy from Alice, and/or they should be whole hog with Alice going toe-to-toe with Penny, with whom I feel she'd be contemporaries, claiming Betty's rights; plus the fact that yeah, Betty has already joined the Serpents.  This development is basically saying that she might as well not have bothered doing that silly "sexy nightclub dance". 

Also, what is up with Archie's nitwitty declaration to Hiram that he's going to "make his bones"?  Now Archie wants to be a gangster?  I almost think I enjoyed the "wanna be a singer-songwriter" story arc more, and that was very unconvincing. 

On 5/18/2018 at 10:37 AM, asabovesobelow said:

I don't know, I think at least three, four, maybe five times throughout the hour, I asked "WTF am I even watching?" 

I still like the show, I do. But they really, really, really should have considered making the teens older than 15, 16. (Watching Betty sit up on Jughead in bed like that...eek.)

I'm not sure I would have started watching last season if I'd known the show was going to be focused on gangs, mafia, teens buying/selling real estate while negotiating ransom fees in the background, cults...I'm sure I'm missing a few. 

Cheryl is probably my favorite. I cringe when starts speaking in Shakespearean tongues, but that's one of the least odd things that this group of teens do.

 

On 5/24/2018 at 2:03 AM, Pindrop said:

This show is ridiculous. I assume the writers must have a competition to come up with the most absurd and unbelievable plot development and the winner gets to write the next scene. 

Yeah, I'm glad I only "watch" this when I'm eating, despite all the pretty, because the pointless nonsense I counted this episode was: 

(1)  Archie to Hiram:  "Veronica leaves a door open for me."  Hiram:  "Mental note to change the locks!" 

Uh, what...?  Veronica is letting him in by leaving the door unlocked.  What does "changing the locks", change about Veronica's ability to turn the internal door button from horizontal to vertical, when she's already IN the house?

(2), we already got treated to Veronica realizing her parents "don't love each other" this season, which neither of them denied, so... how and why are we supposed to be concerned about Hermione making misty eyes at/possibly making a move towards Fred?  Maybe they think we've been on the edge of our seats waiting for it?  Well, maybe we would have, if they had spent any time building it up at the beginning of the series, but any interest they had in each other was over before it started.

(3) They've got the same problem with Alice/Hal - they really think I care about Alice's pain having to "get over" the "weirdness and betrayal" of Hal?  they already made it clear from the pilot onward, almost; that Alice and Hal have about the same level of feelings towards each other that Hermione and Hiram have.  Why should we care? 

(4), are we, or aren't we, supposed to think that Hal is full of it and covering for someone else?  Archie seemed totally unconvinced last episode that he was indeed the Black Hood; or maybe he was busy realizing that Hiram sent a hired goon to try to shoot Fred in the Andrews home and that it wasn't the Black Hood who shot Fred; either way, with all those portentous ridiculous close-ups of eye color and black balaclavas, wouldn't Archie have figured out looooooong ago that his next-door neighbor and best friend's father, having looked at Hal every day for years, possessed the same eye color of the masked person who shot Fred in the diner?

(5)  Veronica... Veronica, Veronica, Veronica.  I get that the writers probably think they're clever, having "Ronnie meets with Mafia scions to "do business"", in fact NOT being a cover for "Hiram is secretly auctioning Ronnie off to be the betrothed to one of these Mafia scions", the fact remains; there's no reason those men would send their sons to "do business", unless this IS the outcome (getting Veronica a fiance).  They'd go themselves and talk to Hiram.  As others have carefully and cleverly pointed out, Veronica is a MINOR CHILD.  She cannot enter into a business contract.  With anyone!!  Nobody would take that risk, because if you make promises to and with a minor child, said minor child can turn and flounce away from the entire deal and no court in the land will enforce it. They'd enforce it upon the adult!  

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah, Betty should be a serpent because she did the female version of the initiation. Jughead was a legacy and still had to do an imitation aka the Gantlet. Betty did the dance so she did do her part. And somehow Cheryl has a jacket (and a special red one at that!) and Betty doesn’t? Don’t get me wrong, I never want to see the dance again.. but then why did the show do it? It was a really uncomfortable scene and clearly all they wanted was a catalyst for the 2nd Bughead breakup. Also.. Cole said something odd-I forget if it was at paleyfeast or upfronts- about the “will you be My queen?” Scene like he said something like it’s not meaning Jughead didn’t mean he was just going to let her in because she’s his girlfriend but yet.. let’s be real Cheryl is just being let in because of Toni? I mean.. really? 

Eta: I’m just confused with Cole saying that Jughead wouldn’t let Betty in just because she’s his girlfriend and it’s a symbolic saying. Like one, he isn’t just letting her in, as I stated she did the terrible dance and two.. I guess Cheryl gets in just because? And look I want to say I hated that dance/scene, it was really uncomfortable and odd for this show. And it feels like the writers just did it to have that breakup scene, because otherwise there needs to be some sort of acknowledgement that Cheryl and Toni can date and. The serpents don’t have a problem with her like they do with Betty and that Cheryl apparently is a seprent now without having to do anything. 

Edited June 17, 2018 by WhosThatGirl