S02.E04: Chapter 12

[Bort]

Quote

David is tested. And tested. And tested. 

[Cthulhudrew]

This show is such a wonderful, manic, neverending trip. I think this season has been even more experimental and off the wall than last, and it's amazing.

[AnimeMania]

Syd's mother had to know whats Syd's powers were, why did she let her boyfriend go to jail for child molestation?

How does Syd's powers work? Does she switch bodies. Does her body change into the other person?

It seemed like she enters the other person's body and when she switches back, her body switches places with the other person's body.

[AimingforYoko]

4 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

How does Syd's powers work? Does she switch bodies. Does her body change into the other person?

It seemed like she enters the other person's body and when she switches back, her body switches places with the other person's body.

They showed this last season when the Summerland crew snatched what they thought was David up after Syd and David kissed at Clockworks. She turned back into Syd in the car.

[RandomWatcher]

Well that was something.

[Frost]

1 hour ago, AimingforYoko said:

They showed this last season when the Summerland crew snatched what they thought was David up after Syd and David kissed at Clockworks. She turned back into Syd in the car.

So her body basically morphs into a perfect replica of the person she touched?  Good, because I was very uncomfortable thinking she was inhabiting her mother's body and having that body have sex in the shower.  That would have been wrong on a lot of levels.  It doesn't explain the clothing situation.  Why would her mother wake up naked?  Small point.

I enjoyed this a lot more than last week.  It didn't set out to be 'quirky'.  It just told an interesting story in a creative way.

I hope David doesn't actually share Syd's world view and just agreed to it to get them both out of her head.  Because although the 'what doesn't kill you makes you stronger' philosophy is a positive way to deal with adversity Syd seemed to take it further into 'I need to be hurt in order to be strong.'  Which would be a depressing way to go through life.

[AnimeMania]

2 hours ago, Frost said:

So her body basically morphs into a perfect replica of the person she touched?  Good, because I was very uncomfortable thinking she was inhabiting her mother's body and having that body have sex in the shower.  That would have been wrong on a lot of levels.  It doesn't explain the clothing situation.  Why would her mother wake up naked?  Small point.

From what I saw Syd takes her mother's body and then her body and her mother's body switches places when the effect wears off. Her mother was naked, wet, and in Syd's position on the couch when she wakes up. I am sure her mother realized what Syd did to her boyfriend, why did she call the cops?

Does Syd have to touch you or does any skin to skin contact with her trigger the effect.

Edited April 25, 2018 by AnimeMania

[AKA...CJ86]

Syd's Mom had to know right?  There was a time or two she seemed to take precautions throughout the flashbacks, just little things to avoid directly touching Syd... So, Syd's power.  She inhabits/controls bodies but as it wears off, they switch places?  Tell me I'm close.  I haven't seen Season One since it originally aired, so I'm blanking on and trying to remember some details.

"I just wanted a kiss."  Maybe not the thing to say as three girls lie unconscious around you.  Poor Kid... but he was a jerk.

I'm just glad Lenny's back.

[steelyis]

So Syd's a rapist. Plus, her rape victim gets sent to prison and will live with the stigma of being a child molester for the rest of his life--assuming he isn't killed in prison. What the fuck. Seriously, what the fuck?

I never warmed up to Syd; her believing that bullshit David said to reach her ain't helping me get there anytime soon.

[themadman]

OK, I'm out. This show is too trippy and self-indulgent for me. I gave it time, but I guess it's not meant for people like me.

[KaleyFirefly]

Why didn't Syd explain to her mother what happened? Did her mother ever find out Syd had powers? Did they ever get that guy out of jail? Ugh, Syd.

When did her powers first manifest? Only when she and the teen guy kissed? Did she know before that she had powers? At first I interpreted that scene as, she purposely kissed the guy so she could beat up the bullying girls and get away with it. 

How did her mom not know she had powers? What happened in that scene where Syd comes out of the room where she's trying on hats, goes out into the living room where her mom is reading poetry, and everyone stares at Syd? I didn't get it.

At the dance club, was Syd switching bodies with everyone who bumped into her and touched her? How did no one notice?

This episode just seemed like the director or show writer had just read that book ("The Ring of Brightest Angels") and wanted to make an episode quoting it and its philosophy. I'm not sure I agree with Syd. Love is the only thing that can save us, and we don't need to hurt ourselves just to be strong.

I loved the first season of this show, but these weird trippy-just-to-be-trippy episodes are wearing out my patience.

Edited April 26, 2018 by KaleyFirefly

[tennisgurl]

Syd certainly has a lot of style, even as a kid. Those bully kids practically had their taunting choreographed, its almost impressive.

Syds mom had to have had some idea about her powers, or why else would she have not touched her, or not been weirded out by Syd always wearing gloves? If thats true, why didnt she realize what happend with her boyfriend? I hope they got him out of prison at some point, thats a fucked up thing to do to somebody. 

I thought that the lesson David would get is that Syd has used her powers for dark purposes, and isnt sure how she feels about it. The two main times we see her use her powers, she got the boy who tried to kiss her in trouble and beat up the bullies, and then she slept with her moms boyfriend, who she didnt seem to like for taking her moms attention. Either she did this by accident, or she deliberately used her powers to get revenge on people she dislikes. Thats definitely something that I hope they deal with. 

This show is like getting high, and watching X-Men and a Wes Anderson movie one after the other. 

[McKinley]

I think that when Syd was little - before her powers manifested - she just really didn't like to be touched.  We know that she did not have her powers from birth because we see her mother holding her as a newborn and there's no indication of them switching places.  Later, we see Syd swaddled in a crib and her mom touching her, again with no indication that they switch places, but Syd cries whenever she is touched and stops crying whenever she's left alone.  I think that's why we see her mom put the pillow between them when she tries to cuddle Syd as a child - not to avoid changing places but because by that time, her mom was well aware of her not liking to be touched and her mom was respecting that.  Similarly when the guest at the party taps Syd on the shoulder and Syd screams - no switching, but an aversion to touch.  So we see Syd growing up, keeping everyone at a literal arms' length even before her powers manifested. 

So, I think that her mother did not know about her powers when she found her boyfriend and Syd in the shower.  Syd wasn't going to explain what happened because then she'd have to admit what she'd done.

I'll need to rewatch now because I'm curious, but I'm not sure if they show us when and how Syd becomes aware of her powers.  She is wearing gloves when she is being bullied in elementary school - is that because her powers have manifested, or because she doesn't like the sensation of touching things?  The first time her powers manifested may have been when the boy kissed her.  But she didn't behave surprised or confused by what was happening; she quickly took advantage of the situation.  She clearly knew what she was doing when she went to the club, and when she traded places with her mother.  

I can't hate Syd too much.  Many of the things she did were very wrong.  But her power forced her to stand alone - physically but also socially and emotionally.  She didn't have anyone to confide in or who could help her make sense of her situation.  We saw her playing with changing places with other people in the bedroom with the coats and hats.  And then later trying it out for real at the club.  Testing.  Experimenting. Normal behavior for a teen.  And we saw her angry at and curious about what she could not have - physical closeness with other people.  Again, pretty normal reaction in an extremely abnormal situation.

ETA: With all of the ice images, I wonder if that's how the world feels to Syd when she touches things - cold and icy.  Perhaps that's why she didn't like to to be touched even before her powers manifested.  

Edited April 26, 2018 by McKinley

[superloislane]

Syd basically raped her mother's boyfriend and he got sent to prison! I always liked Syd before but this episode did make me hate her quite a bit.

I'd be fine with her doing horrible things - characters have done horrible things on this show before. But what I didn't like was how it seemed to imply that Syd was the victim in this situation and that this was one of the horrible things she survived. But she didn't 'survive' this - she destroyed a man's life for no reason (jealousy?). And doing something horrible to someone else does not make you a fighter.

I guess I liked the episode but going over and over and over the same scenes again and again did wear thin.

[Terrafamilia]

The way I've understood Syd's is that first her mind switches places with the other and then, instead of simply switching back, their bodies catch up with them.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Terrafamilia

[loki567]

On 4/25/2018 at 10:40 PM, themadman said:

OK, I'm out. This show is too trippy and self-indulgent for me. I gave it time, but I guess it's not meant for people like me.

I'm sort of amazed it took you this long as I argue this was the most substantial episode of the series so far. Virtually every other episode of Legion could be accused of doing a bunch of crazy and self-indulgent stuff to look cool. This was the first episode I would say they legitimately used their premise of "mutants with psychological issues," to actually do some character development. 

I can't quite get past the fact that Mom's boyfriend got utterly and absolutely hosed there. Syd didn't seem to care at all and just looked at itas one more step on her personal journey which is pretty character ruining for me. Also were they suggesting that Syd's mom was a rape survivor? So that adds one more completely horrible aspect to the whole situation. 

Edited April 27, 2018 by loki567

[patchwork]

The lesson Syd teaches David doesn't seem to match current day Syd's Stand By My Man mindset. I wonder if we're looking at a Days of Future Past situation here where futureSyd swaps minds with presentSyd in order to toughen David up so whatever horrible thing happens can be prevented. 

[Terrafamilia]

What I was getting from Syd's test is her yearning to return to the comfort of the womb. Or at least that was part of it. On another note of dream symbolism, I'm thinking the minotaur in the doggie wheelchair represents Clark.

[FiveByFive]

On 4/26/2018 at 4:42 PM, McKinley said:

So, I think that her mother did not know about her powers when she found her boyfriend and Syd in the shower.  Syd wasn't going to explain what happened because then she'd have to admit what she'd done.

Exactly. They made it clear Syd never liked to be touched, not even as an infant. It's also clear that the person Syd switches with generally has no idea what happened when the switch occurred. It's not like mutants are plentiful on the show so to them it seems like a loss of time. You have mom on the couch, naked and wet. You have Syd in a shower fully clothed with mom's naked boyfriend. So it's not surprising her mother thought the worst or even that she had been drugged and raped herself and that the boyfriend was trying to do it to the daughter next. (And I'm assuming what happened to the body during the switch carries over when the body gets switched back.)

Then again: how would she even explain what happened to her mother in a way that would make her believe her or even the police? "When I touch people I switch bodies with them!" If she proved it successfully that would have been worse for her. (Not that this excuses her but mutants are treated horribly.)

Also there's this whole underlying idea about mutants that their abilities are related to themselves. So, essentially, she manifested abilities related to her personality. In essence: if she never manifested powers the "no touching" thing would have continued to exist. However since fate decided she would be a mutant, her powers are related to that. (The reverse is true in some mutants where, while they don't have powers, their bodies sort of know what power they will get so -- Syd starts out as someone who doesn't want to be touched to prepare/protect her.)

 

On 4/26/2018 at 8:09 PM, superloislane said:

I'd be fine with her doing horrible things - characters have done horrible things on this show before. But what I didn't like was how it seemed to imply that Syd was the victim in this situation and that this was one of the horrible things she survived. But she didn't 'survive' this - she destroyed a man's life for no reason (jealousy?). And doing something horrible to someone else does not make you a fighter.

What Syd did was wrong. There's no way around it.

If she is a victim, she is a victim of her own abilities. Not being able to touch another person completely screwed her up. As a teen with no support, like she'd get from the X-Men for example, she dealt with it the wrong way.

She survived having to go through life like that and by her recent "experiments" it's clear she has reached a stage where she is much more willing to use her powers. I think the thing is: people make mistakes and at that age, I could see her not owning up to it. The problem is, as an adult, Syd didn't seem to have any regret about what she did. I think that says who she is, and it's not a pretty picture. All of the incidents in her life she shared with David brought her to that point: it's not about love, it's about being tough.

It says a lot that David spent relatively little time in everyone else's maze trying to help them while with Syd, it was clear she was there to teach him a lesson. Long after everyone else had stopped feeling the effects of the Monk, which she technically would have and did too (chattering teeth had stopped as a matter of fact), she wasn't about to let him get off easy. In a way it was horribly twisted. 

[scrb]

He ditched Fargo for this?

[Bruinsfan]

I think Syd very clearly already knew what her power was and how it worked when she kissed the boy in school. It was a deliberate decision to kill two (or four) birds with one stone. I can't really blame her for that though, the boy reacted to rejection by physically attacking her, and the girls appear to have made tormenting her their hobby for years. In that scenario all the victims of her power got what they deserved, unlike her mom's boyfriend.

[nikita]

On 4/25/2018 at 1:07 AM, kariyaki said:

My patience is tested. And tested. And tested. 

FIFM ;)

[McKinley]

Each time I rewatch this episode, I see or hear additional layers or details that I had missed before. 

The one quick scene that I don't fully understand is her being restrained and unconscious/asleep in a hospital bed with her mother sitting beside her after she had gone dancing at the club.  What caused her to end up there?  Did the person she switched places with freak out and do something crazy while in her body which she then got blamed for (like the boy that she kissed)?  When her body caught up with her mind did she end up in some situation where she shouldn't be (like in the shower)?  Did she have a mental break from the overwhelming amount of physical contact and switching bodies a bunch of times?  

[thuganomics85]

I'm pretty sure last season, Syd talked about what she did to her mom's boyfriend, so I wasn't surprised by what went down, but it was still pretty disturbing.  I'm not sure if the boyfriend was doing something sinister to deserve it or if was simply plain jealously, but she really did just ruin his life for the hell of it.  She's sure is one messed up individual.  On the other hand, I did evilly enjoy how she managed to get revenge on her bullies and the guy who was treating her like shit for not wanting to kiss him.

Kind of bummed we didn't get to see what Kerry's maze looked like, but I'm glad Cary was able to save her.

So, that was actually Lenny at the end?  This should be crazy!

I also noticed that the title card didn't happen till the end of the episode, so as someone elsewhere pointed out, this episode was actually an entire cold opening.  Classic Legion!

[Sakura12]

Well Syd's a little bit more evil then she showed herself to be. I did remember her telling that story about what she did with her mom and the boyfriend last season. So I was wondering if they would show it. And being Legion of course they did. Syd is really messed up, her not liking being touched and then when she does she switches bodies and uses it to hurt people or feel something. Maybe she should go find Rogue and they can commiserate about the shitty powers they got. Loved seeing Lily Rabe as her mom though. 

I don't think her mother knew about the powers, just that her daughter didn't like to be touched, even when she was a baby. I would actually like to see her mother now and if she knows Syd's a mutant or when she found out about her powers. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 4/30/2018 at 7:19 PM, thuganomics85 said:

I'm pretty sure last season, Syd talked about what she did to her mom's boyfriend, so I wasn't surprised by what went down, but it was still pretty disturbing. 

 

On 4/30/2018 at 11:03 PM, Sakura12 said:

Well Syd's a little bit more evil then she showed herself to be. I did remember her telling that story about what she did with her mom and the boyfriend last season. So I was wondering if they would show it. And being Legion of course they did.

When her mother found them, Syd was in the shower, fully covered, while the boyfriend was naked and screaming.  Syd could have said that she climbed in to the shower with him to see what he would do (which was clearly to reject her), but she didn't.  If she had said that, she would have been humiliated, but her mother wouldn't have had a reason to call the police.  (As to her own nudity on the couch, she had been drinking and might have even had sex first, hence the boyfriend's shower, but I can't explain away her being wet.)

Edited May 3, 2018 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Rap541]

Am I the only one who noticed that Melanie was one of the people at Syd's Mom's weird little in home pysch lecture?

[WatchrTina]

On April 28, 2018 at 4:23 AM, FiveByFive said:

What Syd did was wrong. There's no way around it.

That is true.  It is also true that she was approximately 14 years old at the time.  I remember junior high as a time when everyone was super hormonal and extraordinarily selfish.  One of my favorite authors, Anne Lamott, wrote (in her book: "Some Assembly Required -- A Journal of My Son's First Year") that when she discovered she was pregnant she considered having an abortion.  Not because she was unmarried and not because her boyfriend had made it clear he wanted nothing to do with the child.  No, she considered having an abortion because she didn't know if she could, in good conscience, bring a child into the world knowing that some day he or she would have to endure junior high.  She was joking of course.  Except it's true.

So yeah was Syd did was awful.  Horrible.  And (alas) completely believable . . . in a Scifi, body-swapping kind of way.

On April 29, 2018 at 4:17 PM, McKinley said:

The one quick scene that I don't fully understand is her being restrained and unconscious/asleep in a hospital bed with her mother sitting beside her after she had gone dancing at the club.  What caused her to end up there?

I assumed that bumping into all those people caused her to switch from person to person to person which ended up being WAY too much for her to handle and she ended up freaking out and having a psychotic break.

I wonder if that happened before or after the shower scene?  I'm guessing before -- I think that she wasn't yet able to do full body exchanges yet (so that must have been before she swapped with the bully).  Also if she had had a psychotic break that -- coupled with her long established inability to stand being touched -- might also explain why her mother was super protective of her and even forgave any contributory role she might have had in ending up in that shower.  (Like others, I assume her mother did NOT know about her body-swapping abilities.)

Edited May 3, 2018 by WatchrTina

[ItCouldBeWorse]

12 hours ago, Rap541 said:

Am I the only one who noticed that Melanie was one of the people at Syd's Mom's weird little in home pysch lecture?

I thought so at first, but I don't think it was her.

[Rap541]

I hope it was because that would be clever and I am beginning to think this show needs some clever. 

[wayne67]

Syd is insufferable and I'm not sure I can take another episode of David being incredibly stupid and getting people killed by trusting a mass murderer. This show is teetering on the edge of being on the scrap heap.