S05.E19: Ian Garvey (No. 13): Conclusion

[MostlyC]

Liz uses intel from an unexpected source to force Red to uncover the secrets he holds; Red initiates a plan to retrieve the duffel bag of bones

[ottoDbusdriver]

Man that was dull.

Ian Garvey gets 3 bullets pumped into his chest, falls onto the floor of a bar, and apparently survives -- but Lizzie previously was not shot at all, fell off a chair, and somehow managed to lapse into a coma for 10 months or so.

Suitcase of bones, duffel bag of bones -- nobody cares any more. What's next -- Dora the Explorer backpack of bones ?

Still no sign of the dogs.

[Dowel Jones]

Does anyone have a contact number for Alibi Ike?  I have a staff meeting this Friday and I also have tickets for the Dodgers/Giants game.  Help me out!

Once again, Dembe proves himself to be a Certified Bad Ass, dropping three guys with as many shots at the ambush. 

To tell you the truth, I would have found it much more fun if Mr. Alibi had played the field and made doubles for Garvey, the Russian guy, and Reddington, without telling anyone.

I've always heard that bars/restaurants where Mafioso get killed experience quite an uptick in business.  Get your reservations in now, kids.

[preeya]

"Ian Garvey, The Conclusion," but nothing's concluded. WTF!

[Statman]

Has a show ever dragged out a MacGuffin as long as this one has?

[CaptainE]

Please tell me that the next episode is the series finale.  Please.

It’s just not right that the Americans will be ending and this trash will continue on.

Edited April 26, 2018 by CaptainE

[Cardie]

When Garvey told Lilly she had hidden all those years for nothing, I think he revealed the meaning of the bones. They are the remains of the real FBI Agent Raymond Reddington. He didn't abandon his family and turn traitor. The man we know as Reddington killed him and stole his identity. I guessed that Elizabeth was Red's daughter from the pilot and look how long they kept that obvious fact "secret." At least this one was a bit of a mystery but they will drag it out in the apparent belief that people care.

[CaptainE]

So is Liz the real Red’s daughter Cardie?

[Chaos Theory]

Whatever the hell that bag of bones is better be worth it.   

That being said the episode was fun.

I liked Lilly especially when she said Elizabeth and Red were basically the same person at this point.  

[ottoDbusdriver]

7 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Whatever the hell that bag of bones is better be worth it.   

At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if it's the bones of the Russian replacement of fake Reddington, and Ian Garvey is the real Reddington and is in fact Lilly's real father -- because who the hell knows at this point, or even cares since they have dragged it out so long.

[Johnny Dollar]

We have Lilly and Lizzie, so obviously the key to the whole thing lies with Red’s other daughter/not daughter, Libby. 

[preeya]

9 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Suitcase of bones, duffel bag of bones -- nobody cares any more. What's next -- Dora the Explorer backpack of bones ?

"Bones in a bag"  the never-ending saga that keeps Lizzie in the dark and viewers more & more frustrated.

SHOW: END THIS SHIT ALREADY!

[Just my 2 cents]

9 hours ago, preeya said:

"Ian Garvey, The Conclusion," but nothing's concluded. WTF!

Ian Garvey himself appears to be permanently concluded.

 

8 hours ago, Statman said:

Has a show ever dragged out a MacGuffin as long as this one has?

Lost for however many seasons it was on. I started watching towards the middle of season 1 and stopped in the middle of season 3. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by ally

[CaptainE]

Is this the last season of the blacklist?

[saber5055]

2 hours ago, CaptainE said:

Is this the last season of the blacklist?

Word on the street is that it likely will be renewed for S6, although that's not written in stone yet.

What was up with Lizzie pulling the gun on Garvey at the end and telling him to put his hands on the bar. So Garvey, like the good boy he is, stays there for all the soliloquies and yada yada yadas that seemed to go on forever. Finally, Garvey gets a gun (from where? Lizzie didn't freaking search him much less handcuff him?) and I thought he shot Red before Lizzie shot him ... THREE TIMES!

But before that, Lizzie is all verklempt and "emoting" from the heart-rending speeches of fathers and family love. Oh, barf. I'm kinda on Garvey's team at this point.

I know people who are adopted who aren't that interested in who their bio parents are. So why should we care about the parentage of these imaginary people. I don't. Someone just toss that bone bag in the river.

Edited April 26, 2018 by saber5055

[milkyaqua]

33 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

Finally, Garvey gets a gun (from where?

This.  Before he got to the bar he was in the car with Red and Dembe now unless he swiped a gun from there what was the point of taking the gun from the bar?  So he just magically came up with another gun because Red and Dembe wouldn't have searched him before the strapped him down?  It's little things like this...

Also, nobody cares about Aram giving Samar her keys back.  Again, another throw away scene.

So of course they kill Garvey but still no bones.  Lilly decides to interrupt just before Garvey can fully explain (if he ever was).  And even if the theory that the bones are the real Reddington, why does anyone care?  Would Lilly care?  She already hates "Reddington" as it is.  So if it turns out he killed her real father.  At least Lizzie got to take out the guy who killed her husband but she still doesn't know about the bag or where it is.  I hope TPTB wrap that part of this story up by season's end.  I can't think of too many people at this point who care or ever cared.  How many folks have died for the secret of these damn bones anyway?

Always nice to see John Noble but are we supposed to buy that Garvey's doppelganger actually would be able to speak/sound like him?

To the poster from last epi who mentioned Liz's hair, it does look nice.  I found myself staring at it several times during this epi.  That's probably not what TPTB want to hear from a viewer...

[Dowel Jones]

The real hair is coming back this week!

[saber5055]

47 minutes ago, milkyaqua said:

To the poster from last epi who mentioned Liz's hair, it does look nice.  I found myself staring at it several times during this epi. 

Oh, so did I! I was looking at her hair more than listening to her lips. I wondered how it got so long and straight and with reddish tips. Anything to distract me from what she's saying.

48 minutes ago, milkyaqua said:

Also, nobody cares about Aram giving Samar her keys back.  Again, another throw away scene.

Aram's all "Lizzie, gotta get to Cooper's office NOW, it's important, we gotta get to Cooper's office RIGHT NOW!" Then he stops to give Samar her keys and get all smooshy and into a back and forth about when he would/could get his stuff back. WTH. That's stuff you do after work. You know, when our tax money isn't (hypothetically) paying their salaries.

More doppelgangers in this show would be fun. Make a doppelganger for everyone, please!

[misstwpherecool]

13 hours ago, Cardie said:

When Garvey told Lilly she had hidden all those years for nothing, I think he revealed the meaning of the bones. They are the remains of the real FBI Agent Raymond Reddington. He didn't abandon his family and turn traitor. The man we know as Reddington killed him and stole his identity. I guessed that Elizabeth was Red's daughter from the pilot and look how long they kept that obvious fact "secret." At least this one was a bit of a mystery but they will drag it out in the apparent belief that people care.

Red's either a double or Russian sleeper from day one. I thought Reddington was a defector while in the Naval Academy or just out so he might have been working for the CIA posing as a defector. Wether a mole/spy or defector he decided to go all into the international crime business. But to be an FBI Agent wouldn't Red have gone to the FBI Academy etc. He could've been an FBI informant decades ago being used to get information on a spy ring or something but wouldn't those records eventually have been found?

Since there's a corrupt government informant and marshall involved in the bones someone is covering for the other. But how did Garvey get wind Red had the bones to begin with.

Also through out this entire season I frequently think I'm watching a caper flick or show like Leverage. Sometimes it works and other's it doesn't. It's almost like they use the device to kill time or make a story interesting.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

3 hours ago, saber5055 said:

Finally, Garvey gets a gun (from where? Lizzie didn't freaking search him much less handcuff him?) and I thought he shot Red before Lizzie shot him ... THREE TIMES!

When he took cash from the register he also had the gun.

I think he did shoot Red which is why Liz shot him.

[TheGreenWave]

28 minutes ago, misstwpherecool said:

Since there's a corrupt government informant and marshall involved in the bones someone is covering for the other. But how did Garvey get wind Red had the bones to begin with.

YES!  I've been wracking my brain with how Garvey became involved in the first place - wasn't he just a hired gun to go and get the bones?  By whom?  I can't remember at this point.  And now we have this weird connection between him and Lily, who thought her whole life that she was Red's daughter, and Red and Lizzie, who are also connected to RussianSuperSpyMom and dead Not!Liz'sDad, as well as Mr. Kaplan.  I'm hoping this ends up tying together interestingly...because we have so many players in this right now that TPTB could royally mess this up. 

Lastly....Dembe has been trying to get Red to tell Liz the truth...SO what if the truth really isn't THAT bad????

[saber5055]

What happened to the storyline that Lizzie shot/killed her dad when she was two, then the house burned down, resulting in Red having burns on his back. I'm waiting for the finale when Lizzie wakes up, realizes it's all been a dream and finds Tom in the shower.

[milkyaqua]

Ah, well that makes sense.  Of course Lizzie didn't search him so he pocketed the gun he took at the bar.  Standard boneheaded Lizzie move as well as interrupting Garvey when he seemed to be ready to tell Lilly what the heck all this was about.

2 hours ago, saber5055 said:

What happened to the storyline that Lizzie shot/killed her dad when she was two, then the house burned down, resulting in Red having burns on his back. I'm waiting for the finale when Lizzie wakes up, realizes it's all been a dream and finds Tom in the shower.

This show has done nothing but retcon throughout.  Although heck, they aren't the only show to do that.

[Cardie]

16 hours ago, CaptainE said:

So is Liz the real Red’s daughter Cardie?

By my thinking, she is the daughter of whomever James Spader is playing, someone who killed the real Reddington and assumed his identity. The Russian Ekaterina is her mother. Lilly is the daughter of the real Reddington and his wife. So all the gooey "I've found my sister!" stuff is moot.

The reason for concealing that "Red" is not actually Reddington must have to do with who "Red" really is. He may indeed be a Russian mole or a very deep cover CIA agent. Something sufficiently bad that the Task Force would have to lock him up. Of course, killing an FBI agent might suffice on its own.

I would imagine that all those years ago, "Red" was cornered, his cover blown, his enemies about to strike. So that Christmas Eve he lured Raymond Reddington to a meeting, killed him, and took over his identity. Meanwhile he and Kaplan faked the death of "Red." 

Edited April 27, 2018 by Cardie

[ottoDbusdriver]

5 hours ago, saber5055 said:

More doppelgangers in this show would be fun. Make a doppelganger for everyone, please!

It really couldn't make things worse.  A doppelganger for everyone but Lizzie, because even one Lizzie is one too many.

3 hours ago, saber5055 said:

What happened to the storyline that Lizzie shot/killed her dad when she was two, then the house burned down, resulting in Red having burns on his back. I'm waiting for the finale when Lizzie wakes up, realizes it's all been a dream and finds Tom in the shower.

With the dogs at the foot of the bed.

[saber5055]

1 minute ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

With the dogs at the foot of the bed.

That's better than being the bones in the bag, which also has gone through my head.

[ottoDbusdriver]

2 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

That's better than being the bones in the bag, which also has gone through my head.

Heck, I'm still waiting for the inevitable introduction of a time machine, and find out that Lizzie is her own grandmother or something like that.

[milkyaqua]

22 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Heck, I'm still waiting for the inevitable introduction of a time machine, and find out that Lizzie is her own grandmother or something like that.

It would be more interesting, that's for sure.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

1 hour ago, Cardie said:

By my thinking, she is the daughter of whomever James Spader is playing, someone who killed the real Reddington and assumed his identity. The Russian Ekaterina is her mother. Lilly is the daughter of the real Reddington and his wife. So all the gooey "I've found my sister!" stuff is moot.

I think it's the opposite. Cooper matched Lizzie's DNA to that on file of the "original" Red. We've seen "our" Red talk to his ex-wife (whom he would have married after replacing "original" Red) about Jennifer, whom she vowed to keep safe from him.

If Masha/Lizzie and Jennifer/Lilly don't quickly compare their DNA to see If they share a father  (which is I think they don't) something is wrong.

What was all that stuff Garvey was saying about how Red found Tom through Lizzie and not the other way around?

Edited April 27, 2018 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Cardie]

9 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Cooper matched Lizzie's DNA to that on file of the "original" Red.

Surely "Red" would have made certain that the files proved him to be the real Reddington before he turned himself in to the FBI. (Swapping out DNA would be child's play for his array of nefarious experts.) Likewise there would have been plastic surgery so he could impersonate the real Reddington when interacting with those who knew him in the past. Garvey's epiphany that Lilly needed no protection from "Red" and her recollections of her father as a kind man very different from "Red" convince me that the substitution was made when the real Reddington disappeared.

Even if they reveal that "Red" is an imposter, I'm sure they can drag out the mystery of who "Red" really is for another season or two.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Cardie

[VinceW]

On 4/26/2018 at 7:18 PM, Cardie said:

By my thinking, she is the daughter of whomever James Spader is playing, someone who killed the real Reddington and assumed his identity. The Russian Ekaterina is her mother. Lilly is the daughter of the real Reddington and his wife. So all the gooey "I've found my sister!" stuff is moot.

The reason for concealing that "Red" is not actually Reddington must have to do with who "Red" really is. He may indeed be a Russian mole or a very deep cover CIA agent. Something sufficiently bad that the Task Force would have to lock him up. Of course, killing an FBI agent might suffice on its own.

I would imagine that all those years ago, "Red" was cornered, his cover blown, his enemies about to strike. So that Christmas Eve he lured Raymond Reddington to a meeting, killed him, and took over his identity. Meanwhile he and Kaplan faked the death of "Red." 

 

From the beginning, many viewers might have surmised that Liz was in danger because she is the daughter of the real Reddington, but Garvey telling Libby that she was in hiding for nothing seems to now disprove that theory. The writers implied, during the Mr. Kaplan downfall, that she buried the suitcase bones of Katarina years ago, but it now seems those details were a fake out in order to prolong the story until the writers decided how to end it. It never made any sense that Tom had control of the bones unless to uncover that the fake Reddington was her real father.

 Aram giving Samar her keys back is some kind of prelude for one or both of them in future danger in order to bring them together married at the end of season. IMO.

Edited April 28, 2018 by VinceW

[Johnny Dollar]

Was everyone pointing guns at each other for the full sixty minutes it took for Ressler and Navabi to drive from DC to Baltimore or did they take a break now and then?

I agree about Lizzie’s shampoo commercial worthy hair this season. She could teach sis a thing or two about the benefits of using a conditioner. 

[Chaos Theory]

I’ve been liking this season.  I like Dark Following in her fathers footsteps Lizzie.   I know there will be ALOT of people who will probably disagree with me but she has been written as more competent and Megan Boone seems to be enjoying playing her which makes her a lot less wooden.  

That being said all my good will for the season could disappear depending on what is in the bag.  I loved the Lizzie on the run storyline but hated the pregnancy storyline (not really the shows fault but still HATED IT!!!!!!). 

[Ottis]

It's almost like this is two different shows now. The one I enjoy is the blacklister of the week, and all that goes into learning about him/her, and catching them. The part I don't care about and pay less and less attention to is all the stuff about the suitcase and the bones and who is whose dad. 

My laugh out loud moment was during the set up of Garvey and the drug dealer, where multiple parties had expert soldiers/muscle around and none of them saw all the FBI agents standing up within binocular distance, watching it go down. That was hilarious.

As was the bald skin care commentary between Red and Dembe.

Edited April 27, 2018 by Ottis

[Dowel Jones]

17 hours ago, saber5055 said:

That's better than being the bones in the bag, which also has gone through my head.

Maybe the bag just holds some dog bone chew toys for them to play with, and everyone is desperate to keep this fact secret, as it would entail explaining their absence.

[paigow]

Season Finale:

Liz: Whats in the BAG????

Red: Dont look...

Liz: WHATS in the BAG???

[Neiman]

We're still enjoying the show each week and hope it gets renewed although I'm not sure I will like a plot still centered around Lizzie trying to deal with the fact that her husband was killed because of Reddington's secret and she has a renewed identity crisis trying to come to terms with knowing she's not the daughter of Reddington after all but a fake Reddington.  

[Brian Cronin]

On 4/26/2018 at 8:35 PM, Cardie said:

Surely "Red" would have made certain that the files proved him to be the real Reddington before he turned himself in to the FBI. (Swapping out DNA would be child's play for his array of nefarious experts.) Likewise there would have been plastic surgery so he could impersonate the real Reddington when interacting with those who knew him in the past. Garvey's epiphany that Lilly needed no protection from "Red" and her recollections of her father as a kind man very different from "Red" convince me that the substitution was made when the real Reddington disappeared.

Even if they reveal that "Red" is an imposter, I'm sure they can drag out the mystery of who "Red" really is for another season or two.

There is no way that they went out of their way to explicitly get an old DNA test for Raymond Reddington that matched Liz to not have her be the daughter of the original Reddington. It was when they made that statement that our ears all perked up and got us stuck on the "Oh, so then Red is not the REAL Red" thing. 

Also, recently, the show's creator made this extremely "legalese" answer stating that Liz and Lilly are both the children of Raymond Reddington, so I think they actually are sisters. The original Raymond was, indeed, seeing Katarina and the fake Red killed him and assumed his identity. 

But yeah, the whole "you never needed protection from Red" line was so damned pointed that I can't believe they're still going to stretch this shit out. I really can't believe that they think that Red being an imposter is really all that big of a deal. "Oh, he's been the head of a criminal empire for 30 years and killed well over a hundred people. That's normal enough, but he's not actually Raymond Reddington? Scandalous!"

[saber5055]

19 hours ago, Brian Cronin said:

"Oh, he's been the head of a criminal empire for 30 years and killed well over a hundred people. That's normal enough, but he's not actually Raymond Reddington? Scandalous!"

That makes me think: If Spader is not the "real" Reddington, why assume his identify? Why not just become someone new and be the big bad that way? He could still let Lizzie think he's her dad (because so what). I guess I don't understand assuming some dead bad guy's identify when you could be your own live bad guy, one who is not on the FBI's Top 10 list (but soon to be on it). Spader has all the connections and kills anyone he feels like killing on a whim. Unless Reddington is heir to some vast fortune or a Polynesian island, why bother? I guess I don't get it.

But on the other hand, I don't want to think too deeply abut it either.

Edited April 30, 2018 by saber5055

[misstwpherecool]

On 4/26/2018 at 5:26 PM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I think it's the opposite. Cooper matched Lizzie's DNA to that on file of the "original" Red. We've seen "our" Red talk to his ex-wife (whom he would have married after replacing "original" Red) about Jennifer, whom she vowed to keep safe from him.

If Masha/Lizzie and Jennifer/Lilly don't quickly compare their DNA to see If they share a father  (which is I think they don't) something is wrong.

What was all that stuff Garvey was saying about how Red found Tom through Lizzie and not the other way around?

Garvey thinks Lizzie is following Red's orders because he doesn't know about the task force I think. Lizzie planted the bug on her own. Red exploited the opportunity. A 'confused" Garvey and Red's daughter will be used to story.

[Tony Williams]

Please show the dogs so I do not have to read about them again!

[Happywatcher]

Hopefully Aram traded WAY up

[SassyCat]

I always thought it was going to turn out to be Lizzies mother's bones that Red has in that suitcase. With her death caused by either Red having to take her out because she was endangering Lizzie, or as a child, Liz accidentally killing her own mother, and Red trying to hide this from Lizzie (and the world) by hiding the body.  

[tanita]

If the bones are Katarina's, that has no effect on Jennifer's life whatsoever, and as we heard this discovery is crucial to her as well. I think it's become obvious that the only thing that the bones can mean is that the Red we know is not the real Redington. He killed him and assumed his identity. The Lizz obsession is a question. If our Red is her biological father, then he changed the DNA sample and she is his daughter with Katarina - whomever he was, probably a russian spy. But if she is the daughter of the real Redington that he killed, why is he obsessed with Lizz when her being Redington's kid didn't make him obsesses over Jennifer ? Is it pathological, that she was Katarina's daughter with another man, and by killing him and assuming his identity he is taking everything that was once Redington's. He wants her because he couldn't have Katarina.

[Emma9]

I always tend to get bored of this show midseason and catch up after everything else is over for the year. Worked out well this time, though: I've been aware of the existence of the Oregon Trail card game for a while, but finally got the chance to play it just last weekend, which made the scene of Red and Dembe doing so much more fun.