S19.E20: The Book of Esther

[dttruman]

Rollins races to rescue a girl being held captive by her father. (Information from info button concerning this episode)

I wonder if the father is related to the prostitute or stripper, that Rollin's love interest had a fling with?

[Xeliou66]

I’m not sure why the episode will be Rollins centric, other than that the writers love shoving Rollins down our throats. Between it being Rollins centric and no Peter Stone, I’m not excited for this episode. 

[RollinsRollins]

Instead I love the episodes focused on Rollis, they are intense ,full of suspense ,I love her imperfect character ,full of flaws but at the same time tender and insecure.
will be a fantastic episode.

Edited April 25, 2018 by RollinsRollins

[wknt3]

On 4/25/2018 at 2:47 AM, Xeliou66 said:

I’m not sure why the episode will be Rollins centric, other than that the writers love shoving Rollins down our throats. Between it being Rollins centric and no Peter Stone, I’m not excited for this episode. 

I have to respectfully disagree about the writers having any sort of special agenda for, or love of, Rollins. I think she is a little more prominent this year for a couple reasons. First she was more or less put on the shelf for a couple of seasons as they realized they had screwed up and needed to reboot and rehabilitate the character. Secondly Chernuchin seems to be trying to move past all Benson all the time (with mixed results) and that means that other characters will get more focus. Given the size of the cast and NBC not being willing to pay Ice-T enough to work more or hire another detective/recurring support staff it means we'll see more Rollins by default. Giddish also has great chemistry with the rest of the cast. Where they have made mistakes is in the writing. I would love to see more Rollisi as long as they don't have them acting like high school kids like when she hooked up on their trip, more of her and Fin, and less of her acting completely differently from epsiode to episode.

Edited April 28, 2018 by wknt3

[Gigi43]

I think this  story  is suppose  to based off of those kids in California that had one of the girls escape to get help because they'd been abused for years from the preview  I'm remembering. 

[Xeliou66]

6 hours ago, wknt3 said:

I have to respectfully disagree about the writers having any sort of special agenda for, or love of, Rollins. I think she is a little more prominent this year for a couple reasons. First she was more or less put on the shelf for a couple of seasons as they realized they had screwed up and needed to reboot and rehabilitate the character. Secondly Chernuchin seems to be trying to move past all Benson all the time (with mixed results) and that means that other characters will get more focus. Given the size of the cast and NBC not being willing to pay Ice-T enough to work more or hire another detective/recurring support staff it means we'll see more Rollins by default. Giddish also has great chemistry with the rest of the cast. Where they have made mistakes is in the writing. I would love to see more Rollisi as long as they don't have them acting like high school kids like when she hooked up on their trip, more of her and Fin, and less of her acting completely differently from epsiode to episode.

Rollins was actually decent this year up until Service, her behavior in that episode was inexcusable, she should’ve been suspended, if she was a male detective she would’ve been fired, she treated a victim like shit because of a personal problem and that is never okay for an SVU detective. I do like her chemistry with Carisi, with the exception of the stupid Intent subplot, and with Fin as well, she’s also had a couple of interesting deleted scenes with Stone. However her suddenly being BFF’s with Benson is ridiculous and just a part of the “everyone loves Benson” show, they had conflict for years and suddenly that’s gone overnight. 

I honestly think the show needs a 5th cop, so we could go back to having 4 detectives like we did in the Benson/Stabler/Munch/Fin era. I wish they had kept Mike Dodds, he was an interesting character and added another interesting dynamic to the show.

[wknt3]

5 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

Rollins was actually decent this year up until Service, her behavior in that episode was inexcusable, she should’ve been suspended, if she was a male detective she would’ve been fired, she treated a victim like shit because of a personal problem and that is never okay for an SVU detective. I do like her chemistry with Carisi, with the exception of the stupid Intent subplot, and with Fin as well, she’s also had a couple of interesting deleted scenes with Stone. However her suddenly being BFF’s with Benson is ridiculous and just a part of the “everyone loves Benson” show, they had conflict for years and suddenly that’s gone overnight. 

I honestly think the show needs a 5th cop, so we could go back to having 4 detectives like we did in the Benson/Stabler/Munch/Fin era. I wish they had kept Mike Dodds, he was an interesting character and added another interesting dynamic to the show.

It sounds like we're pretty much in agreement about Rollins. And as you probably remember I've been beating the drum about the need for another squad member for a year and a half now. I don't like the inconsistent writing lately or the execution of the idea that Rollins and Benson should bond over being single mothers - it's a good thought and it's nice to see the writers and producers try to get past last season where it seemed like Benson was the only parent in the world, but they've definitely gone too far and at times put her in the role of confidante that should be Fin's. I have low expectations for this episode, but that doesn't mean a return to the whole ensemble getting episodes focused on them is a bad idea. Or that they are shoving Rollins down our throats. They should write Rollins better AND do at least one episode with her front and center per season.

[Xeliou66]

And I wish when they gave characters an episode centered around them they wouldn’t make them look terrible and OOC like they did with Carisi in In Loco Parentis, but yeah I wish characters other than St Olivia would get focus. And I just don’t like Rollins, she’s an obnoxious unethical screw up whose main characteristic is banging her male co workers and breaking the rules when it helps her. 

[QueenMab]

I just wish the writers would get better at the dynamic between the detectives, how they compliment and correct each other, instead of focusing on one to only show what a trainwreck they are but can still be ace detectives. No. They can't. They're OOC trainwrecks...every time. 

[dttruman]

Why don't they call in the shrink so that person can find out what is wrong with the girl? That is what they have always done in the past. I guess they didn't want to pay another guest star spot or something.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

I missed some episodes, did Rollins and Carisi hook up?

[dttruman]

6 minutes ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

I missed some episodes, did Rollins and Carisi hook up?

Nope. She had a fling with some unknown character who then (supposedly) cheated on her. She has been on a roller coaster of emotions these last few weeks, no telling what the writers will have her do tonight.

Edited May 3, 2018 by dttruman

[Fiero425]

6 minutes ago, dttruman said:

Nope.

He was hopeful, but Rollins got him off of it by hooking up with a bartender when they were following leads out of state! Carisi caught her saying good-bye in the morning as the guy left! He was so jealous, but they've finally gotten over it! ;-)

[dttruman]

Is it me or did the writers (and or producers) make the NYPD SWAT team look bad just so they could make Benson and Rollins look sympathetic. With all those children in there I think the real SWAT would have handled it much differently.

This investigation seemed totally out of wack here. Why wasn't social services called in by Rollins when she was doing her reconnaissance? Why did she enter without a warrant? Everything was just so premature for an investigation.

Are the writers sizing her up to be the next regular to leave, because she is too traumatized?

[wknt3]

The Good:
The teaser. Very well directed and edited. It made me want to see more and set the tone for the episode.
Fin and Carisi. While this was supposed to be Rollins episode I was more impressed by Ice-T's nonverbal acting in the background of many of her scenes and Carisi's mix of support and skepticism.
Benson. Yes you read that correctly. It was nice to see her written in something more like Jack McCoy as DA style, hands on, but not doing the work that should be done by her staff instead of as CO, ADA, and lead detective. And she actually accepted that maybe someone other than her might relate better to a victim!
Solid acting from the guest cast as usual. They did a good job of keeping what could have been very cartoonish characters grounded.
Lots of family drama without beating us over the head that Benson (and maybe Rollins) has a family too!

The Bad:
The writing in previous episodes made it hard to feel the sympathy for Rollins that they wanted. The way she has whipsawed from episode to episode being being too sympathetic and completely lacking empathy and changing personality every week makes it hard to get the classic SVU T!I!P! effect they were going for. It's a shame as the script itself was mostly solid and I feel that it had a good grasp on what Rollins is supposed to be, but the episodes to exist in the context of the season.
Can we have a moratorium on hostage situations please? The squad never comes off well in these situations, Even when they go out of their way to try to make them look good by making the rest of the NYPD into idiots. We can't help but notice that it was caused by one of our "elite" detectives being an idiot and breaking every rule in the book.
After some improvement at restoring the wider world of the NYPD beyond SVU we seem to be back to them existing in a vacuum. Even if you don't want a to pay a guest star some reference to her having a psych eval or declining help in the dialogue would have been nice.
The Sledgehammer of Angst at the end. With all the bullets flying it was Rollin's shot that killed Esther? And Liv was basically "no big deal. Shit happens you'll be back to work once the paperwork goes through."? It would have been better if it was the little girl that was killed by an ESU bullet and Esther blamed Rollins. And then Fin and Liv told her she crossed the line like they had in the past and that they understood, but she still screwed up. You could have had believable anguish without my suspension of disbelief collapsing.

Overall it was actually a decent episode, especially given my low expectations. A B- that could have been a B+ if they hadn't screwed up the ending. I hope that next week is an actual Fin centered episode to the same extent that this week focused on Rollins.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Deadwood's Ray McKinnon does creepy quite well, pretty sure he was the dad.

Anyone else catch when Carisi mentioned the Turpin family?

[LittleIggy]

3 minutes ago, MrsRafaelBarba said:

Deadwood's Ray McKinnon does creepy quite well, pretty sure he was the dad.

 

Yeah, that was him. When I saw him I was like “It’s the preacher from Deadwood”!

[mommalib]

I loved how that SWAT guy shut Benson down. You don't get to see that too often.

[The Wild Sow]

The dad looked pretty cachectic himself; I have no trouble believing that he was fasting/starving along with the kids "to be closer to God."  The mom, clearly NOT.  Did she indicate at the end that she was pregnant?

When they showed Esther's head wound, we went, Ohhhh, that's not from any shotgun blast -- bet Rollins accidentally hit her.  Yep.  I wonder if Esther was one of the ones firing out the window.

[ForeverAlone]

I thought this was a bad episode, nearly from start to finish. I can't really put my finger on why I thought this episode was poorly written, but the rhythms of this episode just felt off, and most of it was Amanda going rogue (like so many people on this team are wont to do).  Again we have Amanda who can't keep her emotions in check on the job. At least this time, she wasn't taking out her personal problems on a innocent victim, but she really needs to get control of herself. Right now, it's like the writers are turning her into Unstabler 3.0 with her being unable to be professional on the job. I figured we would find something out about her father or something that was causing her to be so emotional, but it just seemed like she took this case personally. And of course the writers had to have her fire the kill shot on Esther, because why the hell not at this point? 

[Mystery Author]

Quote

With all those children in there I think the real SWAT would have handled it much differently.

It reminded me a tad of Waco, with the stupid cops climbing on the roof. Hey, stupid cops, you can shoot a canister of tear gas (or whatever) through a window -- from a distance -- without climbing up on the roof.

Quote

This investigation seemed totally out of wack here. Why wasn't social services called in by Rollins when she was doing her reconnaissance? Why did she enter without a warrant? Everything was just so premature for an investigation.

You're not kidding. Bad script, bad. WAY too many flaws.

This may sound dumb, me being a mystery writer and all, but how the bloody hell did they know the bullet was Amanda's?

[ForeverAlone]

The only way I think they could determine that it was Amanda's bullet that killed Esther is if the bullet was still lodged in her and then ballistics compared the kill shot to all of the police officers who fired their weapon and the bullet matched Amanda's gun. But that was certainly the quickest ballistics test ever by the NYPD! 

[dttruman]

3 hours ago, Mystery Author said:

This may sound dumb, me being a mystery writer and all, but how the bloody hell did they know the bullet was Amanda's?

 

3 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

The only way I think they could determine that it was Amanda's bullet that killed Esther is if the bullet was still lodged in her and then ballistics compared the kill shot to all of the police officers who fired their weapon and the bullet matched Amanda's gun. But that was certainly the quickest ballistics test ever by the NYPD! 

This is one of their consistent subtle flaws to this episode (and numerous others), they like to jump ahead without a smooth transition.

[dttruman]

16 hours ago, wknt3 said:

After some improvement at restoring the wider world of the NYPD beyond SVU we seem to be back to them existing in a vacuum. Even if you don't want a to pay a guest star some reference to her having a psych eval or declining help in the dialogue would have been nice.

That would have been the smart thing for them to do. What sad about this is, that they get paid for coming up with this kind of stuff, but it takes a little suggestion from an objective contributor to point that out. Kudos for that one!

 

14 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

. I can't really put my finger on why I thought this episode was poorly written, but the rhythms of this episode just felt off, and most of it was Amanda going rogue (like so many people on this team are wont to do).

It seem like they had another good premise but they just seem to cut and paste these pieces together. Someone in the group coined a good phrase for some of these abrupt conditions that upset the flow of the plot. It's "over the top", Rollin's extreme and unprofessional behavior and SWAT's less than cautious approach to the situation.

Edited May 3, 2018 by dttruman

[QueenMab]

I tried. Seems like the episodes now are just excuses to show what badass cops Rollins and Benson are. The male cops have been effectively neutered...all of them. Since when does a detective (Benson) take command of the SWAT team and tell them when to go in...AND lead the charge into a house?! This show repeatedly proves they have no idea what a SWAT team is for and why they are called in. They are not "back up" for the almighty Benson. When SWAT is called in THEY take control of the situation. There is a SWAT team Commander..he (she) is IN COMMAND. They lead the entry into a structure, they clear a path, they clear any shooters or danger inside, they always go in first and make sure they have some control...THEN the cops go in behind to "mop up". What they show big bully Benson doing is the exact reason SWAT is called in to a dangerous situation. So the pansy detectives don't get blown away! SWAT is called in to take control and make sure that when the cops finally do go in, things are as under control as they can be. This kind of grandstanding crap for the sake of showing Benson as a one woman police force is why, no matter what they try, is why this show is still a stupid soap opera. Just like they have no clue about the real interaction between the police and DA's office during an investigation, they also have no clue about how the different police agencies interact in a life threatening situation. Why call SWAT if Benson is still going to boss everybody and lead the charge into the situation? I'm sorry, but the ignorance and downright stupidity of this show is waaaay out of control. Having to constantly suspend disbelief so Steven Seagal can be the Saviour of Mankind has long since gotten ...silly. They can't even give us some good old police shootouts without neutering everybody so Benson can be the hero. It's still a silly, totally unrealistic soap opera. Now that Barba is gone, they have just decided to make everyone in the NYPD little bitches on a leash to the almighty Benson. Different people, but nothing's changed or gotten slightly better. It's still an unbelievable, silly, glorification of Benson soap opera. I M H O.

[balmz]

episode was ok, the swat captain shutting benson down gives it a nearly perfect score, agreed that it seems weird they didn't have esther talk to someone at lteast offscreen, also i thought it would end up esther killed herself, not that rollins shot her

[SuzieQ]

Mediocre episode.  Not great but not awful.  I hope this doesn't trigger a saga of Rollins going off the rails again.  I've seen enough of her drinking/gambling downward slides.  I can certainly understand her being wrecked emotionally by knowing she was the one who shot Esther, but I hope her inevitable breakdown is off screen.

[12catcrazy]

Just before watching this show, my companion and I watched an excellent British show called "Unforgotten".  Then we watched this.... talk about yet another hour of my life that I felt was stolen from me by really bad tv.   

The actress playing Rollins got to chew the scenery, the guy playing the father was totally believable, and the part where Esther was killed by Rollins' bullet - again, please don't insult my intelligence.   And do the writers of this stupidity have a CLUE about how the NYC police dept operates?  

Funny enough, just because I know how this show operates,  after Ester's father showed up and she went off with him, I said to my SO - this girl is gonna wind up dead.   Just how it works in L&O SVU land.  

[Joimiaroxeu]

I know this was ripped from the headlines but it made no sense to me. There was only the thinnest of reasons for SVU to get caught up in some religion-based nutbaggery even if child abuse was involved.

This episode really highlighted for me what was lost when Dr. Huang was written out. Watching Amanda and Olivia try to psychoanalyze victims and perps and then offer their pop theories is almost painful. At least when Huang came forth his analysis it was based on actual medical study and professional practice.

Re the previews for next week: aw geez, it's T's annual "back to the 'hood" episode. KMN.

[dttruman]

5 hours ago, QueenMab said:

It's still an unbelievable, silly, glorification of Benson soap opera. I M H O.

Even though it wasn't a regular "soap opera" type Benson  episode (and I was grateful for that), they still had to give Benson a "Grandstand" play with that SWAT portion of the show. Why doesn't she try and get more accolades for work behind the camera and direct more?

[dttruman]

2 hours ago, SuzieQ said:

I hope this doesn't trigger a saga of Rollins going off the rails again.  I've seen enough of her drinking/gambling downward slides.  I can certainly understand her being wrecked emotionally by knowing she was the one who shot Esther, but I hope her inevitable breakdown is off screen.

Do you think this maybe setting up future "soap opera" episodes for her? Or do you think this maybe like one of those incidents that also sent Stabler over the edge?

[SuzieQ]

4 minutes ago, dttruman said:

Do you think this maybe setting up future "soap opera" episodes for her? Or do you think this maybe like one of those incidents that also sent Stabler over the edge?

God, I hope not!!  If it sends her over the edge and she leaves the show (in 1 episode or less!) I'm good.  If it's prolonged drama where she's back as a gun toting detective after going off the deep end, I'll be pissed!

[sockii]

Another episode where I felt like SVU did the same/similar subject matter so much better in the past (in this case, Season 6's "Charisma".)

[wknt3]

4 hours ago, dttruman said:

Even though it wasn't a regular "soap opera" type Benson  episode (and I was grateful for that), they still had to give Benson a "Grandstand" play with that SWAT portion of the show. Why doesn't she try and get more accolades for work behind the camera and direct more?

Oh God no please don't suggest that she directs more! Remember "Motherly Love" last season? The 400th episode she directed? Where she blocked every scene so that the camera was focused on her, no matter what was happening, read every line like William Shatner in drag, and chose the lighting and wardrobe to make her look like a literal angel ascending to heaven in that one shot? One of the reasons the show is better this year is she has less control behind the scenes and all evidence suggests that she is completely unsuited to directing, writing, etc. which require a focus on the show beyond her. The only way I want to see it happen is if it is some sort of deal where they do an episode like "Something Happened" and let her write, direct, and spend 40 minutes on camera with 75% of the dialogue, give Fin, Stone, and the rest of the squad the week off, and promote the hell out of it and in exchange we have no running Benoah plots, no camera hogging, no PSAs for her foundation,, etc. the rest of the season and she agrees to go to therapy and remedial acting classes to distinguish between herself the actress and the character she plays and between being a informed advocate and the messiah. I would take that deal in a heartbeat, Otherwise they should use the handcuffs and the holding cell to keep her as far away from the monitor as possible.

19 hours ago, mommalib said:

I loved how that SWAT guy shut Benson down. You don't get to see that too often.

Actually this season they've pretty regularly had people shutting her down or talking back to her. It's obvious that everyone other than Mariska realizes that the St, Benson worship got completely out of control last year. Unfortunately she still has a lot of pull so they still need to have it coming from sources that can be dismissed like a SWAT team leader just before they go all Keystone Cops or an unstable victim and not someone the audience would take as authoritative (how great would it be to see her get thoroughly schooled by Jack McCoy) but it's definitely been there this season. Who knows maybe in their desperation to break the mothership's record and revitalize the show next season we'll even go back to the days when Benson could just be flat out wrong even if her heart was in the right place?

[ChristiKRN]

I thought it was a decent episode; the actors did a good job with the script but once again, the script had holes and didn't live up to the quality of a procedural drama. The actress who played Esther was so good; I found myself rooting for her to overcome her family. The actor who played the father was very effective at playing creepy.  I'm not a fan of Rollins, but Kelli Giddish was better than normal, although I couldn't figure out why she had that weird smile on her face at the end of the show when she was in the church.  

The writers have no idea what they are doing with Rollins; in one episode, she's verbally abusive to a victim and in the next she is compassionate, although It would have been hard not to be sympathetic towards Esther.  The only thing they are consistent on is that Rollins does not follow the law.  It will be interesting to see how she gets through an IAB investigation when she stalked the family while off-duty then broke into their home, escalating the situation to what it became.  She had good intentions, but what she should have legally done and what she chose to do were worlds apart.  I can't figure how she is still a cop with all her transgressions.  Wouldn't be surprised if Rollins slipped back into some of her bad habits. 

Benson again was fully aware of what Rollins was going to do on her personal time, but chose to look the other way.  How is she still in command?  How is she going to hold up under IAB scrutiny also with her decision-making skills, or lack thereof? Still can't help but think that Dodds Sr is keeping a running tab of her bad decisions, and it will come back to bite her at some point. 

SVU must have the quickest ballistics department EVER to have found out that Rollins killed Esther within hours.  

I also got a chuckle out of the SWAT team putting Benson in her place.  Shame they made them out to be incompetent to prop Benson and Rollins.  

[Gigi43]

51 minutes ago, sockii said:

Another episode where I felt like SVU did the same/similar subject matter so much better in the past (in this case, Season 6's "Charisma".)

 

I kept thinking of Charisma too. Though I thought the actor playing the dad was a believable as that type of guy. I think that helped save the episode somewhat. But once agagain we have a woman just going along with her husband in the end and she can be "gotten through too", because no woman really stays with a crazy religious, racist, whatever sick guy, because she is at her core the same way. Women are better always. Except, you know, in reality some of us are actually terrible. 

 

Its such crap they don't even reference calling a psych eval. This better not lead to more Rollins drama. 

[preeya]

19 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

The only way I think they could determine that it was Amanda's bullet that killed Esther is if the bullet was still lodged in her and then ballistics compared the kill shot to all of the police officers who fired their weapon and the bullet matched Amanda's gun. But that was certainly the quickest ballistics test ever by the NYPD! 

Yeah. A gazillion rounds were fired and they matched her killshot within minutes.  Total BS.

[Ms Blue Jay]

This episode was so incredibly stupid

Edit:  Ok -- it was fine -- until the end -- which was so incredibly stupid

Edited May 4, 2018 by Ms Blue Jay

[dttruman]

16 hours ago, SuzieQ said:

God, I hope not!!  If it sends her over the edge and she leaves the show (in 1 episode or less!) I'm good.  If it's prolonged drama where she's back as a gun toting detective after going off the deep end, I'll be pissed!

Holy Cow, I didn't mean it that way! I meant like Stabler, where a couple of incidents start making her question her frustrations with work and she wonders if she lost her objectivity and her dedication to be a police officer.

[dttruman]

12 hours ago, wknt3 said:

Oh God no please don't suggest that she directs more! Remember "Motherly Love" last season? The 400th episode she directed? Where she blocked every scene so that the camera was focused on her, no matter what was happening, read every line like William Shatner in drag, and chose the lighting and wardrobe to make her look like a literal angel ascending to heaven in that one shot? One of the reasons the show is better this year is she has less control behind the scenes and all evidence suggests that she is completely unsuited to directing, writing, etc. which require a focus on the show beyond her. The only way I want to see it happen is if it is some sort of deal where they do an episode like "Something Happened" and let her write, direct, and spend 40 minutes on camera with 75% of the dialogue, give Fin, Stone, and the rest of the squad the week off, and promote the hell out of it and in exchange we have no running Benoah plots, no camera hogging, no PSAs for her foundation,, etc. the rest of the season and she agrees to go to therapy and remedial acting classes to distinguish between herself the actress and the character she plays and between being a informed advocate and the messiah. I would take that deal in a heartbeat, Otherwise they should use the handcuffs and the holding cell to keep her as far away from the monitor as possible.

You are right, I need to rephrase that a little better. First of all, whatever she does, you know they are going say she does an excellent job and praise her to no end. So I thought fine do it behind the camera. She takes a month or two sabbatical from acting and directs a few regular (no Benson character is present) episodes. I was in no way suggesting anything similar to "Motherly Love".  If they do, would you care to jump off the same bridge I plan on jumping from?

[TV Diva Queen]

On 5/2/2018 at 11:15 PM, mommalib said:

I loved how that SWAT guy shut Benson down. You don't get to see that too often.

I came here specifically to post that.  Best words ever written:  "Lt, Stand down!"  I got all giddy and thought, FINALLY someone telling her to stay in her lane.

[RedheadZombie]

I liked this episode - at least until the ending.  I'd rather Rollins be passionate about helping a victim, rather than slut shaming a prostitute.

I liked that I didn't immediately guess what was going on with Esther.  At first I assumed she was being held captive by a stranger, ala Amanda Berry, Gina, and Michelle.  Then it turned into the Turpin Family, and then less likely, Ruby Ridge.  I didn't like the unresolved - to me - semen in Esther's underwear.  At that point, I assumed that Esther may be the biological mother of her youngest siblings.  I've long thought that the eldest Turpin daughter was mother to her youngest siblings, if only due to the age of the mother.   The father insinuated that Esther had consensual sex with her uncle, which is not believable to me and I wanted a fuller explanation.  They never even spoke to the uncle.

I thought it was absolutely ridiculous that Benson and Rollins opened fire on the house - surely that's against regulations.  It made sense when they pinned Esther's death on Rollins.  I have no idea why Rollins has to take time off.  Do the cops who killed the other children have to take time off too?

[illdoc]

7 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

The father insinuated that Esther had consensual sex with her uncle, which is not believable to me and I wanted a fuller explanation.  They never even spoke to the uncle.

Uncle??? I was under the impression that it was her brother, not his, that she had "improperly laid with". And I agree with you that I figured Esther was the mother of the chained up girl, especially since she kept calling for "Mama" and Esther showed up!

[Angeltoes]

41 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

 

I thought it was absolutely ridiculous that Benson and Rollins opened fire on the house - surely that's against regulations.

I thought it was odd that none of the neighbors came out to see what the hell was going on.

[Xeliou66]

Very mediocre episode, a mix of the California family that kept their kids locked up, Waco/David Koresh and the Unabomber. I agree SVU did this subject matter much better in Charisma. 

I’m sick of everything revolving around Benson and Rollins, the male cops have been shifted to the sideline completely so we can see how awesome super mommy-cops Benson and Rollins are. Rollins is just a terrible detective, she’s extremely erratic to the point of whether I wonder if she is bipolar like her sister and her emotional involvement didn’t make her a good detective, you can be effective and not emotional, just look at Fin. 

I was surprised that the SWAT guy stood up to Benson, it’s always nice when someone does that, but they ever have anyone that the viewers would really respect do it. The only main person who has done so is Peter Stone, McCoy somewhat as well when he returned but I would love for McCoy to come back and absolutely rip into Benson for something, I’m glad that we at least have an ADA who isn’t her puppet now.

The episode was fairly predictable although I didn’t think the father would get out of the hostage situation alive. 

Fin and Carisi were good as always, they just didn’t get enough once again.

Stone was missed, even just a couple of scenes where he talked about the legal stuff would’ve been nice, it doesn’t feel like an L&O episode when the legal stuff isn’t even there.

My main takeaway from this, besides the overfocus on Benson and Rollins, is how much Dr Huang is missed. He was desperately needed in this episode, both to talk to Esther at the start and to talk to Rollins at the end, his insight always added to the episode. It was disappointing that Benson didn’t tell Rollins to go see a shrink at the end, it just shows how Benson doesn’t give a fuck about her detectives or anyone but herself. I’m so sick of her self righteous ass, as if she hasn’t done more unprofessional things than what Rollins did this episode, but no one ever calls out the holy St Olivia on her crap.

[wknt3]

3 hours ago, Angeltoes said:

I thought it was odd that none of the neighbors came out to see what the hell was going on.

Maybe they didn't want to watch another SVU hostage situation any more than we did?

[Noirprncess]

Glad to see I’m not the only one that thinks the writing on the episodes have been really poor this season.

 

so why hasn’t Rollins been suspended or released from her job?  At this point, she clearly needs a very long break.

[spacefly]

Like and disliked this episode. I liked the beginning because I was unsure of where it was going and as the end unfolded I was just worried. As I watched this episode it was constantly being interrupted with the news of a domestic violence incident happening a few towns away. The suspect blew up the barn/home with 10 SWAT members in close proximity and sent them to the hospital (no one died). Throughout I kept wondering if this was going that way too.

[Corvino]

To me, the point of this episode, and the reason I looked very much forward to it, was that it should have been all about the horrors of the Turpin-like family; all about the crime, not the detectives' feelings and conduct as the primary focus. So there was too much about our heroes instead of more development of the case. It would have been easy for Amanda to just call Social Services when she saw through the window a little girl chained up and crying out, and then we could have had arrests and awful stuff coming out at trial and thoughts on what would happen to the kids (or younger generation, anyway, since Esther was not a kid). Yes, it was a bad decision to make it an action story with SWAT and that lousy bummer of an ending instead of a  crime-and-trial story. It was nice to see Amanda's developing relationship with Esther, their smile as their eyes met in the bowling alley and all, but that could have been preserved and improved if she'd called Social Services.

The incest angle seemed like too much. My friend I watched it with couldn't believe it was over because that was just allowed to dangle or fade out. Did they just bring it in in order to make it an SVU case, when it turned out they were living in NYC rather than New Jersey? They never said whether the brother-sister incest was a one-time thing by captives (as in "Flowers in the Attic") or a matter of monstrous policy by the father-- the detectives asserted the latter, but it wasn't backed up. Dead-end plot strand.

Except where we found out that incest is legal (among consenting adults) in New Jersey. Good heavens! www.nj.com suggests that this was an oversight:

        Sexual relationships among adult relatives are legal, but they weren't always. Incest was outlawed in New Jersey until 1979, when the state enacted a new criminal code that left a section planned for incest blank, according to Peter Gilbreth, a Morristown-based attorney who handles both criminal and family cases.

       “It’s really surprising that the statute was not enacted, in light of a long legislative history prohibiting that conduct,” Gilbreth said.

        Under the old statute, incest was a crime that carried a maximum penalty of 15 years in state prison, Gilbreth said.

This sounds to me as if they left it blank because they meant to put in a new, thoughtful statute, perhaps with lighter penalties, then forgot to do so before they passed it. Huh!

Esther needed a psychiatrist (and to live), but Amanda didn't need one at the end, did she? She went back to church.

Edited May 5, 2018 by Corvino
Don't know how to indent a quotation, and it made a gap.

[dttruman]

22 hours ago, wknt3 said:

On 5/4/2018 at 4:31 PM, Angeltoes said:

I thought it was odd that none of the neighbors came out to see what the hell was going on.

Maybe they didn't want to watch another SVU hostage situation any more than we did?

The only reason  why they didn't come out is because the producers didn't want to pay for anymore extras in the scenes, even though it would have made it more realistic.