S05.E18: All Roads Lead...

[Cranberry]

The team must find a way to stop Ruby before the prophesied chain reaction that can destroy the Earth is put into motion.

[Bubbles]

I didn't mind Dove Cameron so much before this episode because I thought Ruby was supposed to be flat and robotic, but man, her performance tonight was painful. 

[greekmom]

I'm glad Ruby and Stucker are dead.  I'm sad Talbot is gone.

Yo Yo is so obsessed with stopping the future happening she's actually playing a large part to secure it.

[AimingforYoko]

Bye, Ruby. Between Yo-Yo and Talbot, this was kind of a dark episode.

[Jediknight]

Everything with Talbot, man, that was heartbreaking.  I liked that Coulson got through to him, and that Talbot was breaking his conditioning, also that Mack used an icer on him.  So, he should still be around.  If SHIELD gets renewed, I'd rather Adrian Pasdar be on SHIELD more, and Supergirl less.  I like him on Supergirl, but he's much better on SHIELD.

Yo Yo, you didn't save the world.  Coulson is the key to saving the world, you have to let him die.  You let him die, the world is saved.  Killing Ruby isn't the key.

[Froippi]

3 minutes ago, greekmom said:

I'm glad Ruby and Stucker are dead.  I'm sad Talbot is gone.

Yo Yo is so obsessed with stopping the future happening she's actually playing a large part to secure it.

i'm pretty sure Talbot is still alive it was a Icer

Am I the only one that feels YoYo did the right thing and Daisy just won't see it that way yea she is suppose to be a kid but she is also not your typical kid either

[CaptainTightpants]

Talbot is in the description for an upcoming episode. So im pretty sure he is only down temporarily.

[greekmom]

1 minute ago, CaptainTightpants said:

Talbot is in the description for an upcoming episode. So im pretty sure he is only down temporarily.

That's good. I like Adrien P.

Hale though. What a cold beyotch. No wonder Whitehall only wanted her to spawn the next satan and not do "great things".

[UNOSEZ]

22 minutes ago, Froippi said:

Am I the only one that feels YoYo did the right thing and Daisy just won't see it that way yea she is suppose to be a kid but she is also not your typical kid either

No I was with yo yo in that moment... Ruby was a lil psycho who was obsessed with beating Daisy and was powered up with gravatonium and  the minds of some pissed off scientists... Not to mention the guilt of  killing Strucker ( still not sure why he was following her)  so no... You take down the mentally unstable super angry powered brat..  

[JudgeyMcJudgyPants]

I’m not going to miss Ruby at all or Dove Cameron for that matter.  I don’t blame Yo-Yo for taking her down.

This show has such a good track record for having awesome finishes to its seasons so I’m not ready to throw in the towel yet but it needs to get better soon.

[Lobsel Vith]

55 minutes ago, Froippi said:

i'm pretty sure Talbot is still alive it was a Icer

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was an Icer.

56 minutes ago, Froippi said:

Am I the only one that feels YoYo did the right thing and Daisy just won't see it that way yea she is suppose to be a kid but she is also not your typical kid either

I don't get the feeling that it'll be a long-term grudge or anything like that - Elena lost her arms because of Ruby, and Daisy should understand what it's like to be brutalized because of what Fitz did to her. If this show was well-written, Fitz's torture of Daisy should be properly addressed (along with the risk of him going full Ward - which was the whole reason he was locked up in the first place), but I won't be holding my breath.

[SnoGirl]

That was kinda dark. I also think it was a misdirect....Creel still has the gravitorium, there’s still 92% of it in the case. Me thinks the world still isnt saved. Plus, the time loop isnt right, right? Deke had footage of Daisy running somewhere by herself. Coulson is still alive. Fitz, Simmons, YoYo and May were no where near the lighthouse. Deke is assumably still around. The gravitorium has to get to the Lighthouse bc thats how they stablize the gravity while its in space. 

I did like that they were being proactive by making sure the Zephyr could fly in space. They should be hiding weapons everywhere. AND leaving themselves help like what happened in the past, how they failed, how to survive Kassius. 

Hated almost all the Deke fawning over Daisy stuff, except the lemon line. That I thought was kinda sweet, and I laughed as Mack and Coulson told him to leave the lemon on her bed for sure. But as a Daisy/Robbie shipper I still hope Dasiy/Deke goes no where. Plus, Daisy has her hands full with being in charge.

Loved every May and Daisy scene. Loved that it was them against a bunch of Hydra goons and they kicked ass. If we’re moving towards next season, I hope we see Daisy and May as partners. They compliment each other well.

Shit looks like its going to hit the fan next week. Too bad Daisy cant call in some friends to help *coughHunterBobbyMikePetersoncough* A girl can hope right...

Edited April 21, 2018 by SnoGirl

[Lantern7]

Lots of stuff happened tonight, but the main thing I got? Deke suuuuuuuuuuuuuucks. Yeah, I know, he hails from a crappy future where he had to look out for "number one" and occasionally selling people out, but he brings nothing good to the table, and he's crushing on Daisy. I can be nice in saying that he's slightly better than any version of Grant Ward, but he's just a waste. Basically, he's here to make the noble sacrifice. Well, another noble sacrifice. "Shut up, Lemons," indeed.

Talbot needs a hug. And a supporting role next season, because Pasdar was/is wasted on Supergirl. We need an acidic authority type that's cranky most of the time. Even without the Bucky programming, he's fun to watch.

Can't really blame Elena for killing Ruby. Of course, she's probably wrong about aborting the future, but that was a nice moment. Ruby was compelling, but she was a pain in the ass before the floating and other assorted abilities. Girl was broken, and she'd never get fixed.

[Lobsel Vith]

18 minutes ago, SnoGirl said:

Hated almost all the Deke fawning over Daisy stuff, except the lemon line. That I thought was kinda sweet, and I laughed as Mack and Coulson told him to leave the lemon on her bed for sure. But as a Daisy/Robbie shipper I still hope Dasiy/Deke goes no where. Plus, Daisy has her hands full with being in charge.

I mean, Deke sold her into slavery, and Deke brought that up about two episodes ago as a reason why Daisy still had issues with him, so it would be pretty ridiculous of the show to pair the two of them together (unless they learned nothing from Ward, and the whole Framework Ward fiasco suggests that could be a possibility). Plus, Daisy has made it repeatedly clear that she has no romantic feelings for Deke. Doing a "no means yes" romance storyline would be... pretty gross.

5 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Lots of stuff happened tonight, but the main thing I got? Deke suuuuuuuuuuuuuucks. Yeah, I know, he hails from a crappy future where he had to look out for "number one" and occasionally selling people out, but he brings nothing good to the table, and he's crushing on Daisy.

Yeah, slavery should never be the start to any storyline trying to dangle a potential romance between two characters. It's just... sad that someone was actually paid to write this. It's complete garbage.

[Froippi]

so it looks like FitzSimmons would do anything to keep their Romance going even destroying the Earth which is pretty sad actually I just did not realize Simmons felt the same way tell tonight

[Raja]

2 hours ago, Froippi said:

i'm pretty sure Talbot is still alive it was a Icer

Am I the only one that feels YoYo did the right thing and Daisy just won't see it that way yea she is suppose to be a kid but she is also not your typical kid either

I am pretty sure they gave us the blue muzzle flash that along with the silver tip is how they distinguish between icers and more lethal firearms

45 minutes ago, Froippi said:

so it looks like FitzSimmons would do anything to keep their Romance going even destroying the Earth which is pretty sad actually I just did not realize Simmons felt the same way tell tonight

Not do anything, however unwilling to make the sacrifice that their grandson was willing to earlier

[Froippi]

8 hours ago, Raja said:

I am pretty sure they gave us the blue muzzle flash that along with the silver tip is how they distinguish between icers and more lethal firearms

Not do anything, however unwilling to make the sacrifice that their grandson was willing to earlier

But even FitzSimmond rebuilding the chamber it don’t look like FitzSimmons actions was what cause it might be YoYo actions that cause it cause Hale wants revenge so she goes to the Aliens 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Froippi

[AnimeMania]

For a moment there I wuz like "Oh My Gawd, Ruby's going to Heaven!"

[Cranberry]

The Deke-related comments in this thread so far can stand, but I do not want to see yet another rehash of the "Deke's a slaver" vs. "Deke's redeemed himself" debate. If you find yourself starting to type more about that, take it to the Deke thread. Thanks!

[Raja]

8 hours ago, Froippi said:

But even it don’t look like FitzSimmons actions were not what cause it might be YoYo actions that cause it cause Hale wants revenge so she goes to the Aliens 

 

In this case everybody from those who say Daisy, destroyer of world's to old Elena's proclamation that the attempt to cure Coulson is the event are unreliable narrators. If it is not a Back to The Future or the more recent Timeless theory of time travel chosen then the loop very well could have been broken already by some mundane butterfly event unworthy of screen time. but that would be cheating the audience if they came and said that by the finale

It seemed like the alien confederation was coming anyway, General Hale is just going to get them to move early for revenge and for the Confederacy they get a chance to grab the gravitonium. But I do wonder how much of a prize it is if over the next 90 years some was used to run an Inhuman farm. But then maybe enhanced gladiator fights are as big of a galactic business as MCU movies on real life Earth.

In my major crossover speculation when Asgard fell their protection of Midgard/Earth also fell and that was the actual initiating event. Everybody else is just reacting the best that they can in the fallout.

Edited April 21, 2018 by Raja

[Chaos Theory]

I guess it was always lead to this huh.

And no Yo Yo you didn't save the world.  This show isn't that neat.  You probably are the one who lit the fuse for its destruction....but understandably so.  I could see it happening the moment you walked into that room.  It was so....predictable but I am not sure in a bad way.  Because all roads.

Fitz and Simmons are at time disgustingly cute but also exceptionally dangerous.  They are each others greatest strength and greatest weakness.  They would let the world be destroyed because they both believe they will live through it.

Ruby and Strucker were an interesting pair and I am sorry to see them both go.  They made fun villains.  Again the whole "no one but us"  worked for me.     But I did like the fact that Hall actually did love her daughter and her daughter's death is probably what ends up sending her over the edge.

Everyone keeps treating Deke like a complete idiot for some reason, and I'm not sure what it is about him that everyone hates.  Yeah yeah the selling Daisy into slavery thing but if you can't get passed that then we need to have a whole discussion on every characters history and motivation from episode one.  Plus Deke has made up for it or at least wants to and wants to be given the chance to.  I am not sure I actually ship Deke and Daisy but I find his crush on him kinda sweet.  Plus lemons are going to be a thing now. 

My one question is how the show is going to write Daisy into becoming the Destroyer of worlds because that is the only way I see this going or maybe not.  Maybe something else happens.  

Edited April 21, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[paigow]

Creel is sedated...when he wakes up, the voices will continue to drive him insane...if he manages to somehow kill himself, that might trigger the apocalypse...

[kitlee625]

8 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

My one question is how the show is going to write Daisy into becoming the Destroyer of worlds because that is the only way I see this going or maybe not.  Maybe something else happens.  

I've been wondering a lot about this too. My theories are that Daisy tries to infuse herself with the gravitonium as a last resort (to save the world from alien invaders) or that she tries to infusion Coulson to save his life. 

[Lady Calypso]

I don't know why these characters keep jumping to conclusions, especially Elena. She doesn't know for sure that Ruby was the Destroyer of Worlds, and then claimed she saved the world. Except they thought, until recently, that it was Daisy (and it still could be). All I know is that Elena may have partially done it to stop Ruby from killing people due to the gravitonium driving her crazy, but she did it mostly for revenge for Ruby taking her arms. There was a moment where she met eyes with Ruby, realized the connection, and I think it was clear she was going to kill her, regardless of Hale or Daisy getting her under control or not. So, Elena did the right thing in ending Ruby before she completely lost it, but I think the reasons for doing it weren't as altruistic as they should be. 

Deke got on my nerves. I'm sorry, but I did like the guy up until a few episodes ago. He really is bouncing from plot to plot without much behind it. A few episodes ago, he was the Fitzsimmons kid. Now, he's just a guy who crushes on Daisy. I mean, the lemons thing did make me chuckle, not going to lie, but every other moment got on my last nerve. Seriously, go back to being the Fitzsimmons plot device, please. He got more subdued and real moments out of it. Yet, at least they're still maintaining the same story with Daisy having no interest in him. I'd hate if they went back on it, but with there only being a few episodes left, and a high chance that he'll die, there's no time to turn this into a romance. 

Heh. Maybe Coulson becomes the Destroyer of Worlds. Actually, I'm convinced that he might, especially since Ruby had to be put down and killed when she started to go nuts, and Old Yo-Yo claiming that Coulson needed to die (if she's right) would perfectly fit in with this, If they don't kill Coulson in time, he causes the end of the world. He dies anyway, but it would make sense as to why Daisy was the last to be seen on that footage before the world ended. I don't think they all think the future has been changed, but hopefully they're smart enough to realize that they may very well have Deke there to help confirm that they've changed the future....because technically, if the future is changed, he should disappear completely. 

Poor Creel. He's just going to be driven mad bit by bit.

Poor Talbot. Hopefully they can find a way to save him, because none of this is his fault.

Wow. So....Fitz was getting beat up by Ruby, and I was actually cheering her on. I mean, the guy's been reckless and made some really bad decisions as of late, so I'm glad someone got to beat him a little bit. Now, Fitzsimmons is willing to risk a lot just to be with each other. 

[Lobsel Vith]

22 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Everyone keeps treating Deke like a complete idiot for some reason, and I'm not sure what it is about him that everyone hates.  Yeah yeah the selling Daisy into slavery thing but if you can't get passed that then we need to have a whole discussion on every characters history and motivation from episode one. 

And if we did, nothing done by any of the main characters (sans Fitz at this point) is even in the same league as what Deke did, so there's no reason why anyone (especially Daisy) is obligated to warm up to him. I don't get the rationale that, because the main cast are imperfect people, that they're somehow obligated to like Deke - they're not. It's like saying that they should have embraced Ward with open arms because they aren't perfect people.

23 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Plus Deke has made up for it or at least wants to and wants to be given the chance to.

That doesn't mean that a single person - particularly Daisy - owes him anything.

25 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I am not sure I actually ship Deke and Daisy but I find his crush on him kinda sweet.  Plus lemons are going to be a thing now. 

I would have preferred to see that screentime go to actual character interaction among the main cast. Deke is taking up screentime that could have gone to a number of different character interactions as an alternative, and it's becoming more than a little repetitive with Deke.

[Froippi]

1 minute ago, Lobsel Vith said:

And if we did, nothing done by any of the main characters (sans Fitz at this point) is even in the same league as what Deke did, so there's no reason why anyone (especially Daisy) is obligated to warm up to him. I don't get the rationale that, because the main cast are imperfect people, that they're somehow obligated to like Deke - they're not. It's like saying that they should have embraced Ward with open arms because they aren't perfect people.

That doesn't mean that a single person - particularly Daisy - owes him anything.

I would have preferred to see that screentime go to actual character interaction among the main cast. Deke is taking up screentime that could have gone to a number of different character interactions as an alternative, and it's becoming more than a little repetitive with Deke.

Our you saying what Fitz did was more acceptable than what Deke did sorry just trying to make sure I understand what your saying 

[Lobsel Vith]

1 minute ago, Froippi said:

Our you saying what Fitz did was more acceptable than what Deke did sorry just trying to make sure I understand what your saying 

I'm saying that Fitz's actions are putting him more on Deke's side at this point - the show has pretty much handwaved a lot regarding him (from the danger of him becoming entirely like his Framework counterpart to what he did to Daisy). Everyone else has made their share of mistakes, but none of them are comparable. Even Elena killing Ruby in this episode - she thought Ruby was the Destroyer of Worlds, and she remembered that Ruby was the one who cut off her arms. It's not even in the same ballpark.

[Chaos Theory]

I am by no means saying what Deke did is acceptable I am saying I don't understand why people hate the character.  I never particularly hated the character of Ward.  I thought he was an intriguing character but there was a no turning back point with him where he was no longer redeemable and ultimately his final death was well done but I thought the Framework Ward storyline was an incredible storyline on what Ward could have been if his life had gone different.  I like Deke as a character.  I find him wanting to connect with others sweet.   I am not sure if there is a point to Deke other then him being connected to Fitz and Simmons and an excuse for them to do stupid and world ending things but if he survives the season I would love to see more of him and his reactions to the bigger world a world he has no well framework for.  

But then I think people are diving too much into morality when it comes to characters on this show and this show has always been one big shade of grey which is why I find it interesting. 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[Raja]

38 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

 

My one question is how the show is going to write Daisy into becoming the Destroyer of worlds because that is the only way I see this going or maybe not.  Maybe something else happens.  

From the beginning all we had for the legend was a video of the world's most famous Inhuman with a power set, if not the power level, that might have explained how the impossible happened. Somehow Hydra's code name got to the general population maybe from an inter SHIELD argument under the stress of living in the Lighthouse and the Kree arriving. With a few episodes left besides Hale wanting to place blame on her, instead of Yo-Yo specifically, they must show us how the legend started.  

[Froippi]

The confederacy Is the real villain but it seems Kasius remove everything to Hide what really happen seem he was scare of backlash and as a desperate attempt To try to save everyone Daisy was infused and it did not work 

Edited April 21, 2018 by Froippi

[Raja]

8 minutes ago, Froippi said:

The confederacy Is the real villain but it seems Kasius remove everything to Hide what really happen seem he was scare of backlash and as a desperate attempt To try to save everyone Daisy was infused and it did not work 

After Creel and Ruby I can't see anyway at all FitzSimmons can claim the science is sound and we should try this. Daisy didn't even want of base Inhuman power back to supercharge it now and join with the other for brains seems unlikely.

[Lobsel Vith]

12 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I am by no means saying what Deke did is acceptable I am saying I don't understand why people hate the character.  I never particularly hated the character of Ward.  I thought he was an intriguing character but there was a no turning back point with him where he was no longer redeemable and ultimately his final death was well done but I thought the Framework Ward storyline was an incredible storyline on what Ward could have been if his life had gone different.

It was a storyline that robbed Trip of a more prominent role (after being ridiculously marginalized in season two) and used Ward's victims to prop Ward, including having Daisy deal with a man who threatened to rape her in the season one finale. Trying to elicit sympathy for a Nazi character in an anti-Nazi storyline is such a mistake. The saving grace of that entire pod was Mack, Hope, and Elena - their final scene was absolutely incredible.

As for Deke, if you're talking about the characters, then what he did to Daisy is pretty much the most likely reason (he's cited it as the reason why Daisy still has issues with him, and that makes perfect sense). If you're talking about the viewers, then it's that he's another horrible white guy who did some terrible things, has fans who whitewash the terrible things that he's done, and the show denied us the opportunity to have another man of color without marginalizing his screentime (Trip, Andrew, Joey, and even Robbie if you compare his screentime to that of other white male characters, including Deke), or killing them off (Joey and Andrew).

In this episode, his whole lemon scene took up time that could have been better spent elsewhere, on character interactions that have been lacking so far. It's becoming more than a little frustrating at this point.

13 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I like Deke as a character.  I find him wanting to connect with others sweet.   I am not sure if there is a point to Deke other then him being connected to Fitz and Simmons and an excuse for them to do stupid and world ending things but if he survives the season I would love to see more of him and his reactions to the bigger world a world he has no well framework for.  

I don't feel the same way about the character - I'll leave it at that, unless you want to take this to the Deke thread and discuss it further.

[shrewd.buddha]

So Ruby is dead. Okay. We can tell the story arc is coming to a conclusion because the major characters are starting to get bumped off, as usual.

But why the OMG drama? Daisy didn't agonize this much over the death of a 'villain'  when she killed her own mother ( or did May do it?).  Coulson and his gang have killed dozens (hundreds ?) of 'bad guys' during fights and never looked back or wondered if they could have been reasoned with. 
And Hale - you send your teenage daughter out as an assassin on a regular basis, but haven't  considered the possibility of her dying? 
It is always a curiosity for me when shows get all moral about killing when it comes to the lead bad guys - but never the minions. 

32 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

But then I think people are diving too much into morality when it comes to characters on this show and this show has always been one big shade of grey which is why I find it interesting. 

These are all comic book characters - no past action will ever really stick - because seriously, how could any character have experienced as much as tv action characters do on a weekly basis?

Edited April 21, 2018 by shrewd.buddha

[Froippi]

2 minutes ago, Raja said:

After Creel and Ruby I can't see anyway at all FitzSimmons can claim the science is sound and we should try this. Daisy didn't even want of base Inhuman power back to supercharge it now and join with the other for brains seems unlikely.

Oh let clear this up I was referring to what happen the other times they try it I can’t find a situation where a shield agent would find it a good ideal to infuse yourself with it it’s just we have people making stupid decisions so this would not really be a surprise if she did do it 

[Lobsel Vith]

Just now, shrewd.buddha said:

So Ruby is dead. Okay. We can tell the story arc is coming to a conclusion because the major characters are starting to get bumped off, as usual.

But why the OMG drama? Daisy didn't agonize this much over the death of a 'villain'  when she killed her own mother ( or did May do it?). 

Her father killed her mother because her mother was draining her life force during her confrontation.

[shrewd.buddha]

Are we supposed to have some sympathy for Hale and Ruby? Aren't they out and proud Hydra = Nazi? Didn't they kill a bunch of people, many of whom were innocent? Why should we feel any more sympathy for them than Ward? 

[Raja]

18 minutes ago, shrewd.buddha said:

Are we supposed to have some sympathy for Hale and Ruby? Aren't they out and proud Hydra = Nazi? Didn't they kill a bunch of people, many of whom were innocent? Why should we feel any more sympathy for them than Ward? 

I guess because no matter what her accomplishments in Hydra Prep General Hale was seen ultimately as a broodmare for Dr. Whitehall. I am betting that if the movies still had a close connection the male genetic material for Ruby would have come from the Red Skull.

1 hour ago, shrewd.buddha said:

So Ruby is dead. Okay. We can tell the story arc is coming to a conclusion because the major characters are starting to get bumped off, as usual.

But why the OMG drama? Daisy didn't agonize this much over the death of a 'villain'  when she killed her own mother ( or did May do it?).  Coulson and his gang have killed dozens (hundreds ?) of 'bad guys' during fights and never looked back or wondered if they could have been reasoned with. 
And Hale - you send your teenage daughter out as an assassin on a regular basis, but haven't  considered the possibility of her dying? 
It is always a curiosity for me when shows get all moral about killing when it comes to the lead bad guys - but never the minions. 

These are all comic book characters - no past action will ever really stick - because seriously, how could any character have experienced as much as tv action characters do on a weekly basis?

 

From this story I believe that this was Ruby's first and last campaign. Before then spending a life looked away hoping that the cover for Hydra Prep held while SHIELD, the FBI, the USAF and the Avengers were rounding up SHIELD/Hydra assets.

Edited April 21, 2018 by Raja

[Enigma X]

1 hour ago, shrewd.buddha said:

So Ruby is dead. Okay. We can tell the story arc is coming to a conclusion because the major characters are starting to get bumped off, as usual.

But why the OMG drama? Daisy didn't agonize this much over the death of a 'villain'  when she killed her own mother ( or did May do it?).  Coulson and his gang have killed dozens (hundreds ?) of 'bad guys' during fights and never looked back or wondered if they could have been reasoned with. 
And Hale - you send your teenage daughter out as an assassin on a regular basis, but haven't  considered the possibility of her dying? 
It is always a curiosity for me when shows get all moral about killing when it comes to the lead bad guys - but never the minions. 

 

ALL OF THAT^^^

 

This is where I want to bail on this show. This is my biggest gripe.  The characters I love, I love. That is why I watch. The writing for all the characters is atrocious though.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, Froippi said:

Oh let clear this up I was referring to what happen the other times they try it I can’t find a situation where a shield agent would find it a good ideal to infuse yourself with it it’s just we have people making stupid decisions so this would not really be a surprise if she did do it 

The way that I am seeing the time loop part of the story that besides Robin nobody knows what has been tried before and we along with the characters will only find the actual time loop breaking event in the next to last episode. So nobody knows what to change this time. Daisy went with if I am the Destroyer I can't be with the power inhibitor installed. And Yo-Yo has the let Phil die I am invincible mindset. Fitz has the theory that all anyone can do is the right thing at the moment because you can't change it or at least actually know what to change to break the loop.. 

My wish, one of the Inhuman royalty has the ability to see the many different outcomes of an event and I think one should make a cameo at least on the AoS. And he might be able to make some more fine tuned response of a drawing by Robin.

[blueray]

Quote

 killing them off (Joey and Andrew).

Joey is still alive. He just didn't to be part of shield. I hope they bring him  and Robbie back next season if they get one.

 

I agree with what Yoyo did. Ruby was out of control and clearly was going to kill them all if they didn't kill her first. Plus she deserved revenge for cutting off YoYo's arms. I am glad to see her go, as she was an annoying character. However, sadly I don't think her dead saved them.

 

The stuff with Telbot was sad, but I believe Mack just iced him. So he is going to be okay. I was suprised Robin's mother lived, as she is going to die at some point assuming they are still in the timeloop.

[tennisgurl]

Yeah, no way do I buy that the world was saved by Yo Yo killing Ruby. Way too easy. That being said, its kind of hard to blame her for what she did. Ruby is a seriously unstable, murder happy teenager who had potentially world destroying super powers. She just killed her boyfriend by accident, and would have probably killed most of them. No way was that going to end well. Daisy wanted to help her because i think she was projecting a bit with her whole "scared young woman with mom issues and powers she got that she doesn't understand" drama. Just like how last week her daddy and abandonment issues convinced her to allow Talbot to call his son, even when it was dangerous and against protocol. I mean, I do feel some sympathy for Hale and Ruby (as they were raised in HYDRA and are clearly not well in the head) but they're still the bad guys, and they need to be stopped, and not have all their crimes wiped away. 

Not really into Deke having a crush on Daisy, but I did laugh at his whole thing about lemons on peoples beds, and then Coulson and Mack just being like "yeah, thats totally a thing, you should do that" reaction. I do hope it doesn't actually become a romance thing though. Too much history,and Daisy really has shown no interest in him. 

Thank God Talbot survived. Poor guy, that was so tragic to see. Really, a pretty dark, intense episode, even by this shows standards. I really thought he was going to shoot himself for a minute, out of desperation. Him repeating the compliance line was super creepy. I hope they can get him back to normal. I also hope he can stick around here more, his talents are used way better here than they are as that one note villain he plays on Supergirl. 

Fitz and Simmons working together was nice, even if the circumstances weren't exactly ideal. They seem to be back to themselves, like the torture stuff didnt even happen. Its just so weird, like those were some random episodes from some other show that got snunk in. I think the part where Fitz notes that he`s engineering, and she`s bio tech was a call back to their intro scene. Holy crap have those two changed since that episode! It seems like they've aged about 100 years since they were the cute science nerds in the first season. 

I mean, come on Hale. You trained your daughter to be an assassin, you had to know something like this could happen.

I could watch Daisy and May get the crap out of bad guys all day long.

[Enigma X]

I don't blame Yo-yo for killing Ruby either. 

Can someone tell me again why May or Mack could not have been in charge and have Daisy  shadow for training? I know the real reason is that the writers deemed it so, but in actuality it makes no professional sense.  Even if I felt she was written as doing a great job, it would still make no sense.

[TVSpectator]

14 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I don't know why these characters keep jumping to conclusions, especially Elena. She doesn't know for sure that Ruby was the Destroyer of Worlds, and then claimed she saved the world. Except they thought, until recently, that it was Daisy (and it still could be). All I know is that Elena may have partially done it to stop Ruby from killing people due to the gravitonium driving her crazy, but she did it mostly for revenge for Ruby taking her arms. There was a moment where she met eyes with Ruby, realized the connection, and I think it was clear she was going to kill her, regardless of Hale or Daisy getting her under control or not. So, Elena did the right thing in ending Ruby before she completely lost it, but I think the reasons for doing it weren't as altruistic as they should be. 

1

This is true. There is still at least 4 episodes left so I would assume that the timeline won't be changed (if it is changed at all ) until like in the last episode or even maybe in the second to last episode. 

Quote

 

Deke got on my nerves. I'm sorry, but I did like the guy up until a few episodes ago. He really is bouncing from plot to plot without much behind it. A few episodes ago, he was the Fitzsimmons kid. Now, he's just a guy who crushes on Daisy. I mean, the lemons thing did make me chuckle, not going to lie, but every other moment got on my last nerve. Seriously, go back to being the Fitzsimmons plot device, please. He got more subdued and real moments out of it. Yet, at least they're still maintaining the same story with Daisy having no interest in him. I'd hate if they went back on it, but with there only being a few episodes left, and a high chance that he'll die, there's no time to turn this into a romance. 

Heh. Maybe Coulson becomes the Destroyer of Worlds. Actually, I'm convinced that he might, especially since Ruby had to be put down and killed when she started to go nuts, and Old Yo-Yo claiming that Coulson needed to die (if she's right) would perfectly fit in with this, If they don't kill Coulson in time, he causes the end of the world. He dies anyway, but it would make sense as to why Daisy was the last to be seen on that footage before the world ended. I don't think they all think the future has been changed, but hopefully they're smart enough to realize that they may very well have Deke there to help confirm that they've changed the future....because technically, if the future is changed, he should disappear completely. 

 

2

Deke is so pointless. He literally has nothing to do but being annoying and then they think that having pine over Daisy is a good thing? As with who is the Destroyer of Worlds, I thought that was supposed to be Dasiy and not Coulson? 

 

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Wow. So....Fitz was getting beat up by Ruby, and I was actually cheering her own. I mean, the guy's been reckless and made some really bad decisions as of late, so I'm glad someone got to beat him a little bit. Now, Fitzsimmons is willing to risk a lot just to be with each other. 

1

Now, granted it seems that having Fitz being locked up was a good decision in the first place and releasing him/breaking him out has helped lead to this mess, no? That being said, I am not surprised that Fitz and Simmons repaired the machine since you know, Simmons was willing to commit murder in Season 3 to end a romance story and Fitz is the type of person that would do anything for Simmons (even if it is going to destroy the world. It's a "fuck the entire world because I just want to be happy with my supposed soul mate even though I didn't have enough courage to even talk to her for 10+ years about my true feelings for her" type thing even though both have been written (at certain points in the series) to be the opposite. But hey, this couple doesn't seem like they believe that they can't change anything but for some reason, they are acting (a few episodes ago) like they could by breaking Fitz out of prison. Again, it's, in my opinion, inconsistent with the entire story of this season, let alone inconsistent with other points of this series.

As with Fitz's beat down, yeah he really needed it too bad Fitz was left alive. Personally, how can he come back to SHIELD and work with Daisy when he tortured her and she is the only one that is pissed off at it? Let alone trusting Simmons again, since she decided to take matters into her own hands and help free Fitz (along with Yo-Yo and Deke) that lead to them being captured and being forced to work on that machine? How many fuck-ups will SHIELD/Coulson just will tolerate with these two before finally either just kicking them out of SHIELD and/or just putting them in a cell and never letting them out again? Last season it was hinted that it was Fitz and Simmons who gave Radcliffe those old SHIELD files to create LMDs of his own (because you know they were just a bunch of science buddies), then Fitz hide AIDA, didn't tell Simmons for a while and once she found out she just decided to blackmail Mace  and this all happened when SHIELD was supposedly an official government agency again. So clearly they have to be held accountable for at least something? Not to mention that they never told anyone about Will nor the planet until the very last minute (as explained by then finally telling Talbot about the planet but not about Will- who I thought was an active Air Force/NASA personal?), Simmons wanting to just leave Will on that planet (which is murder and something that only Hydra did because you know they are evil in every possible way but Fitz and Simmons are not supposed to be evil. BUT having them do those things really do make me assume that they are evil), etc....

As with them having a future child, I just can't picture these two being parents in any way. Waking up at 2, 3, 4, and/or 5 AM in the morning to feed the baby, changing dirty (poopy) diapers, burping, feeding, staying up the whole night because the kid had a bad dream she was sick, and/or she just won't go back to sleep, etc...? Paying for daycares, taking the kid to school, etc...? I could bearly see these two as actual human beings, right now with actual human needs (like eating, sleeping, going to the bathroom, Simmons dealing with her period, Fitz taking a dump, etc....) because of the way they are written to be is so very not real, in my opinion. Let alone the fact that it seems like in every season they get separated for at least six months for a time (granted the end of Season 3 and the start of Season 4 was the exception to this), etc.... Also at this point, I am just so very tired of hearing Simmons claiming to be "invincible" that I just want to see her die this season. I know it 's not going to happen in any way and that the writers will have them be alive at the end of the season (hell the showrunners admitted that they are writing this like this is the last season but still want to leave room in case of the possibility of more seasons. Sort of like how they wrote the end of Season 4, have a cop-out death, have everything end nicely, have them at a diner because they are just one happy "family", etc....) so seeing Fitz being beaten down was satisfying but not the ending that I actually wanted for him (also his death will prevent Deke from existing). Not only that but a lot of the other characters were just ruined, in my opinion, to just accommodate these two romance. Hunter suddenly just wanted to leave Will on that planet (again, Hunter wanting to commit murder by leaving the guy on that alien planet), Coulson somehow never bothered to tell Simmons' family that she was missing for 6 months, everyone just forgiven Fitz for hiding the LMDs and helping to create one of the biggest messes ever on the show in Season 4 (and also lying to them about the LMDs and his actions),  also everyone except for Daisy, seemingly forgiven Fitz for torturing Daisy, etc....

13 hours ago, Lobsel Vith said:

Her father killed her mother because her mother was draining her life force during her confrontation.

Yes, that is true. It was Cal who killed Jaiying because Jaiying was trying to kill Skye-Daisy on that battleship. 

13 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

So Ruby is dead. Okay. We can tell the story arc is coming to a conclusion because the major characters are starting to get bumped off, as usual.

But why the OMG drama? Daisy didn't agonize this much over the death of a 'villain'  when she killed her own mother ( or did May do it?).  Coulson and his gang have killed dozens (hundreds ?) of 'bad guys' during fights and never looked back or wondered if they could have been reasoned with. 
And Hale - you send your teenage daughter out as an assassin on a regular basis, but haven't  considered the possibility of her dying? 
It is always a curiosity for me when shows get all moral about killing when it comes to the lead bad guys - but never the minions. 

These are all comic book characters - no past action will ever really stick - because seriously, how could any character have experienced as much as tv action characters do on a weekly basis?

 

Yes, you can tell on this show that the major story arc is coming to an end by having the big bads being written out of it. Either by death and/or they just disappear for a while (like Ian Quinn, Gravitron/Hall, Andrew/Lash, Raina, Garrett, Ward, Jaiying, AIDA, Hive, Radcliffe, The Darkhold, Ruby, Baby Von  Strucker, The Superior, etc...) or they will start to write out and/or kill other (non-villainy) characters like Rosalind, Trip, Robbie, Joey, Andrew/Lash, Will, Talbot (again the dude this past two seasons just can't catch a break), Mace, Gonzalez , Radcliffe, Deathlok, Hunter & Bobbi, etc....) but with how comic book characters deal with their past actions, well I would argue that it depends on who the writer is (a good writer will actually use past events to help shape up new stories and also develop a character) and also the good writers will actually have the cahracers deal with their shit's fallout. Many times this show seems like a bad comic book and/or a poorly written comic book come to life. 

 

My prediction is that Hale is going to be killed by the Confederacy and they will be the new big bad as well. 

Edited April 22, 2018 by TVSpectator

[VCRTracking]

Count me in also the "I don't blame Elena at all" train and honestly she put Ruby out of her misery. Either she was going to be a force of destruction or tormented with two personalities in her head forever in conflict and living with the guilt of killing Strucker.

Deke did remind me of Spike on Buffy the Vampire Slayer after he realized he was in love with Buffy.

"Shut up 'Lemons'." Ha!

Love whenever Daisy and May kick ass together.

Daisy is going to be a leader. Even though she has issues with some of them now, treating your friends

I'm so relieved Talbot didn't 1)kill Robin's mom and 2) commit suicide.

Edited April 21, 2018 by VCRTracking

[Raja]

26 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I don't blame Yo-yo for killing Ruby either. 

Can someone tell me again why May or Mack could not have been in charge and have Daisy  shadow for training? I know the real reason is that the writers deemed it so, but in actuality it makes no professional sense.  Even if I felt she was written as doing a great job, it would still make no sense.

Every Lieutenant has that day where he is put in charge and command over the vastly more experienced Sergeant under him. Every General, except the fake tyrants with the fake medals, had that day in their past. The day May became her   became her SO after Ward's basic SHIELD field training was the shadow period. She did not know it was coming  but every junior officer also knows they might have to move up two or three steps in an instant because of combat loses.

That she didn't want it when Coulson said it is time for you and faced a mutiny from the Invincible 3 on her first day is the story we have.

[Enigma X]

4 minutes ago, Raja said:

Every Lieutenant has that day where he is put in charge and command over the vastly more experienced Sergeant under him. Every General, except the fake tyrants with the fake medals, had that day in their past. The day May became her   became her SO after Ward's basic SHIELD field training was the shadow period. She did not know it was coming  but every junior officer also knows they might have to move up two or three steps in an instant because of combat loses.

That she didn't want it when Coulson said it is time for you and faced a mutiny from the Invincible 3 on her first day is the story we have.

I am not a Daisy fan, I have grown to tolerate her. So, I will never be onboard with what we currently have.

[TVSpectator]

2 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I am not a Daisy fan, I have grown to tolerate her. So, I will never be onboard with what we currently have.

I am not a fan of Daisy either but other than the writers (and some fans) wanting her in charge, why should she become the director?  Almost every decision she has made on the show has lead to bad outcomes? The only real good decision she has made was to keep Fitz locked up. 

[Enigma X]

@TVSpectator, agree with your post except the Fitz part but have no desire to become part of that debate.

[kitlee625]

5 hours ago, shrewd.buddha said:

But why the OMG drama? Daisy didn't agonize this much over the death of a 'villain'  when she killed her own mother ( or did May do it?).  Coulson and his gang have killed dozens (hundreds ?) of 'bad guys' during fights and never looked back or wondered if they could have been reasoned with. 
And Hale - you send your teenage daughter out as an assassin on a regular basis, but haven't  considered the possibility of her dying? 
It is always a curiosity for me when shows get all moral about killing when it comes to the lead bad guys - but never the minions. 

48 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Yeah, no way do I buy that the world was saved by Yo Yo killing Ruby. Way too easy. That being said, its kind of hard to blame her for what she did. Ruby is a seriously unstable, murder happy teenager who had potentially world destroying super powers. She just killed her boyfriend by accident, and would have probably killed most of them. No way was that going to end well. Daisy wanted to help her because i think she was projecting a bit with her whole "scared young woman with mom issues and powers she got that she doesn't understand" drama. Just like how last week her daddy and abandonment issues convinced her to allow Talbot to call his son, even when it was dangerous and against protocol.

I'm assuming that it's because the writers wanted to hammer home the Coulson & Daisy / Hale & Ruby parallels one more time. Daisy identifies with Ruby, and has sympathy for her because she's a kid and has a crap mother. Doesn't mean it makes much sense, but as Tennisgurl said, Daisy has major mommy and daddy issues. I echo everyone else above who understood why Yo-Yo did what she did. I also appreciate that she's at least trying to change the future / stop the destruction of the Earth.

 

3 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

I am not a fan of Daisy either but other than the writers (and some fans) wanting her in charge, why should she become the director?  Almost every decision she has made on the show has lead to bad outcomes? 

The writers really seem to love undermining her. I hate that they do that and then have everyone gush about what a wonderful agent she is. Pretty much everything she does goes terribly wrong.

[VCRTracking]

Were FitzSimmons being selfish there? Yeah but I get it. The world wasn't in imminent danger and they couldn't risk the other based on what might happen. It puts them on a slightly bad light but they were at least honest. It's not like a scenario where they promise to put the world before themselves then at the last moment one of them decides they couldn't sacrifice the other. And It's not like the end of Cabin of the Woods where a character does something INCREDIBLY selfish yet we the audience are supposed to think he's on some moral high ground while the another character is a jerk! I'm still pissed off about that one.