Around the Kitchen Table: Social Topics

[peacheslatour]

About the Fox News comments. I know many people who used to have normal, even progressive parents until they retired. Then they began watching Fox News every day, probably innocently thinking they were just watching the news. Now they have turned into the most bigoted, paranoid, conspiracy theory obsessed reactionaries you've ever seen. These people don't even recognize their parents any more. And more often than not, they just don't see them any more.

[Annber03]

I'm so glad my parents have never watched, nor shown any interest in watching, that network. 

[peacheslatour]

2 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I'm so glad my parents have never watched, nor shown any interest in watching, that network. 

Me too.

[JakeyJokes]

3 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

About the Fox News comments. I know many people who used to have normal, even progressive parents until they retired. Then they began watching Fox News every day, probably innocently thinking they were just watching the news. Now they have turned into the most bigoted, paranoid, conspiracy theory obsessed reactionaries you've ever seen. These people don't even recognize their parents any more. And more often than not, they just don't see them any more.

I first noticed this when I had a co-worker whose newly unemployed husband watched Fox News all day and I had to gently explain to her that, no, it is NOT a bad thing to take the census! She voted for maybe the first time that year. I never asked for who or what -- I was so proud of her for thinking for herself (she was normally VERY subservient in her marriage).

[Bastet]

4 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

About the Fox News comments. I know many people who used to have normal, even progressive parents until they retired. Then they began watching Fox News every day, probably innocently thinking they were just watching the news. Now they have turned into the most bigoted, paranoid, conspiracy theory obsessed reactionaries you've ever seen. These people don't even recognize their parents any more. And more often than not, they just don't see them any more.

Studies have shown that people who get their news primarily or exclusively from FOX News not only know less about current events than people who get their news primarily/exclusively from other sources, but from people who do not read/watch the news at all.  When asked about a variety of topics in the news at the time of the studies, they were more likely than any other group to either not know or think they know, but get it incorrect.  So I'm glad they gave Jackie that line, because it did a better job than the entire first episode in attempting to explain many of the changes in Roseanne from the original series to the revival.

[bigskygirl]

I know people who watch Fox News, and they are not evil bigots who blame minorities for their problems. The whole thing reminds me of an African American woman who moved from Chicago to Montana. She was told by her family and friends not to move to Montana because we were a bunch of racist Republicans. The ironic thing is I have met and know more liberals than conservatives, and I was born, raised and lived in Montana my whole life.

Edited May 9, 2018 by bigskygirl

[Annber03]

13 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

The whole thing reminds me of an African American woman who moved from Chicago to Montana. She was told by her family and friends not to move to Montana because we were a bunch of racist Republicans. The ironic thing is I have met and know more liberals than conservatives, and I was born, raised and lived in Montana my whole life.

 

Yeah, the whole narrative of "everyone in the middle of the country is conservative, and everyone on the coasts are liberal" that I hear so often in the media and from other people and whatnot really needs to stop. I live in Iowa-born and raised here-and have also lived in a few other states, all of which were smack dab in the middle of the country. Yes, some areas I've lived in tended overall to lean more one way politically than another (and hell, Iowa alone, if demographics are anything to go by, has one side of the state leaning one way and the other side leaning the other way), but the fact remains that there's plenty of liberals in "middle America" (myself being among them), just as there's conservatives who live in New York and Los Angeles. I don't know when we decided that where one lives automatically determined their political leanings, but it's a trend that I desperately wish would end. I get the thing of demographics and whatnot, but I also feel that that sort of black and white thinking has made it easier for politicians and certain media outlets to pander to whichever part of the country they believe is most aligned with their particular political views, and people who don't agree with that particular political bent feel ignored as a result. 

Edited May 10, 2018 by Annber03

[SparklesBitch]

5 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

About the Fox News comments. I know many people who used to have normal, even progressive parents until they retired. Then they began watching Fox News every day, probably innocently thinking they were just watching the news. Now they have turned into the most bigoted, paranoid, conspiracy theory obsessed reactionaries you've ever seen. These people don't even recognize their parents any more. And more often than not, they just don't see them any more.

This is my situation right now. I’m in my mid thirties and my parents are recently semi-retired. They’ve started watching Fox News within the past handful of years and I feel like I don’t know them anymore. Going back to my hometown to visit is hard and when they come to visit my (large, very liberal, very diverse) city, I’m forever on edge wondering what offensive thing they’re going to say next. I’ve already been embarrassed a few times. It’s exhausting and painful and to be honest, I see them a lot less than I used to because it’s not worth the emotional toll. 

[qtpye]

Someone in another thread was asking about why it seems like the Connors' current financial problems are so much more depressing than their old ones. I think it has to do with there is no longer a sense of "the next generation can achieve better if we work at it". Yeah, Dan and Roseanne were not as stable as their parents, with the Unions losing power and the factories closing, but there seemed to still be hope for their kids.

In the original run, I always expected Beck and Darlene to be able to rise to comfortably middle class. I do not know why I assumed this, but it felt like a given, particularly Becky who was a good student and seemed to be on a traditional track to success.

I have no idea how Harris is going to pay for college if she gets in, though she might qualify for student aid. Also, even if she does get a college degree, so what?  It is no longer a guarantee of any kind of success unless she does something lucrative like computer programming or engineering.

[peacheslatour]

If she gets a STEM degree she will have no trouble finding a good job but she will have to move somewhere like Dallas, Atlanta, the Bay Area or Seattle.

[chocolatine]

4 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

If she gets a STEM degree she will have no trouble finding a good job but she will have to move somewhere like Dallas, Atlanta, the Bay Area or Seattle.

Many tech companies now have offices in all major cities, including Chicago. Who knows, maybe if there's a revival of the revival in another 20 years, Harris will have built the next generation of social media. :)

[DkNNy79]

16 minutes ago, qtpye said:

Someone in another thread was asking about why it seems like the Connors' current financial problems are so much more depressing than their old ones. I think it has to do with there is no longer a sense of "the next generation can achieve better if we work at it". Yeah, Dan and Roseanne were not as stable as their parents, with the Unions losing power and the factories closing, but there seemed to still be hope for their kids.

In the original run, I always expected Beck and Darlene to be able to rise to comfortably middle class. I do not know why I assumed this, but it felt like a given, particularly Becky who was a good student and seemed to be on a traditional track to success.

Yes, it is depressing that their children haven't fared better.  Growing up poor, you would assume they would have some motivation to do better.  They stressed that growing up that they wanted to get away from Lanford and yet here they are, they're all back.

Becky had the most potential but she got side tracked by her romance with Mark and I feel like kinda gave up. 

Darlene was the most vehement about leaving Lanford and she event went to school in Chicago, but got pregnant which derailed things.

[Rap541]

Quote

Both things I understand. But whether to work for a small company is a choice. And getting part time instead of full time work is almost always tied to a lack of skills (academia teaching excluded). In both cases, Dan’s comment that it is hard to find jobs with “full benefits” is false, which was my point. If he had said, “It’s hard FOR US to find jobs with full benefits,” he would have been correct. 

Not necessarily. One reason I am not teaching despite the stated desperate need for high school science teachers is that when I had my freshly minted teaching certification in hand, I couldn't find a job within 100 miles of where I lived where I would be hired full time with benefits. Every single school wanted me to start as part time and "see how I worked out" for an entire year. I had a full time job with benefits already, I couldn't afford to "pay my dues". Ironically staying in the job I had means I now make twice what a tenured teacher with 20 years of experience makes.  But my point here is that its really not as simply as "if you would just get off your ass and look".

Darlene was being a baby and it's actually an example of poor writing because if she was willing to get a job at Build a Bear, I don't see why being a casino waitress even with the humiliating outfit was a bridge too far. In reality, Crystal was offering to set Darlene up with a *good* job - people in those places make a lot better than minimum wage - it's not huge but its money. You get tips. It's not difficult work. Add in healthcare and a 401k and thats a good job. 

Where the show fails is that Darlene as a college graduate who has been doing *some sort of work* for years isn't even looking at jobs like receptionist or customer service (which are OFTEN home based now). There's a point where Darlene and also DJ's complete lack of minimal success just isn't real. I mean, DJ is close to a 20 year military vet. You can't tell me he doesn't have benefits and resources, and wasn't encouraged to get some college while he was in

[bigskygirl]

Just now, llewis823 said:

She said people gave them to her. It happens all the time. I have bad feet & knees but just live with it and I don't even like to take Tylenol, etc. and I don't. But I have people offering me their leftover painkillers all the time "to help me". Yeah, right. I'm stronger than that, but a lot of people aren't. And I think that is what probably happened to Roseanne's character.

She could have said no thank you. I have a bad back, neck and right knee, but I do not have people offering me stronger pain pills, and I definitely would turn them down if they offered me some.

[Rap541]

Quote

FYI, it is against the law to share/give/sell pills.  

Yup, well aware of that, which is why I am saving them for the post apocalypse when the only law will be decided by those who survive Thunderdome!

But am I going to turn in people who do share their drugs? Probably not. And do I think the situation shown on this episode happens a lot? Yes.

Quote

No kids to feed, clothe, insure, buy school supplies for, and fund their extra curricular activities, yeah, it's logical for Becky to be able to afford an apartment and car on waitressing tips. Especially a decently successful restaurant that sells alcohol, which increases the bill total. Better tips. I did it for many years on Chi Chi's tips. Plus, took college classes, got my degree and raised a kid.  It took twice as long as it should have to get that degree, but I did it.  And the kid lived. And played soccer, Little League, and all those other money sucking activities. 

For all we talk about Dan and Roseanne's bad decisions, I find it hilarious that Darlene choosing to have children she can't afford isn't discussed. Becky by dint of being a high school drop out should be the one at the bottom of the success pile but... she does have a job, she does have an apartment, she does have a car. She might be living paycheck to paycheck, she might not be able to financially assist her parents with their woes... but she's the Connor adult child who isn't currently a burden.

[ChicksDigScars]

On 5/16/2018 at 11:34 AM, Rap541 said:

Because painkillers are often grossly over prescribed. I had my wisdom teeth out. I was given a prescription for like forty Vicodin pills and... I took one and was ok. But I didn't throw the Vicodin out, I kept it in the event that the world ended and I needed to have trade goods with the biker overlords that ruled the post apocalyptic aftermath... 

I was so spooked about taking opiods, given what we hear about in the news, that when I was prescribed Oxy after partial mastectomy combined with an all over breast reduction (to "even the girls out."  I even said, "Way to go, Doogie," when I woke up). I never finished the bottle, switching to over-the-counter Extra Strength Tylenol, instead. I wasn't over-prescribed. Just a week's supply with zero refills. But, I tossed the ones that I had left.  I didn't like to take them at ALL. 

 

When my son was younger, I actually had a friend offer to buy his leftover ADD meds (FOR HERSELF) after they changed the dosage and we were stuck with half a bottle that he couldn't use.  No, I didn't sell them to her.  But, to someone that was in need to ready cash, and was desperate, the thought would be tempting to sell/give unused pain killers to a friend, it seems.  

[llewis823]

2 hours ago, bigskygirl said:

2 hours ago, llewis823 said:

She said people gave them to her. It happens all the time. I have bad feet & knees but just live with it and I don't even like to take Tylenol, etc. and I don't. But I have people offering me their leftover painkillers all the time "to help me". Yeah, right. I'm stronger than that, but a lot of people aren't. And I think that is what probably happened to Roseanne's character.

She could have said no thank you. I have a bad back, neck and right knee, but I do not have people offering me stronger pain pills, and I definitely would turn them down if they offered me some.

I agree - she could have, but as I said - I'm stronger than that. Sounds like you are too, BigSkyGirl, but a lot of people are not. I sure did identify with how Roseanne called Dan out about how she keeps on keeping on with her bad knees but he gets to rest when his back flares up. I do the same thing - just keep plugging along no matter how much it hurts. It eventually gets better (of course it gets bad again too but I enjoy the not-so-bad when it happens).

[Madding crowd]

Being strong enough doesn’t mean you won’t ever need pain medication. Roseanne said she is in too much pain to work or do her regular activities without pain medication. It doesn’t mean she isn’t strong.

[bigskygirl]

Just now, Madding crowd said:

Being strong enough doesn’t mean you won’t ever need pain medication. Roseanne said she is in too much pain to work or do her regular activities without pain medication. It doesn’t mean she isn’t strong.

I understand what you are saying, but it can be easy for her to become to dependent on the medication which can lead to an addiction. I am surprised they have not come up with a medical pot storyline for Roseanne.

[Tenarife60]

8 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

People with no money can't always just up and move.

Exactly! That's what I was going to say.  Crystal, Anne Marie and Chucky are probably like Roseanne and Dan and they own their houses so they are well planted.  I did wonder about Nancy, though, because in the old Roseanne show she had an apartment, so I didn't think she'd stay in Lanford, plus being gay or bisexual, another reason to leave that small town.

[FairyDusted]

@mamadrama summed it up so well I wanted to quote it but instead came by the post it note. Ugh! Chronic patient myself. Like MD said I also quit for the exact same reasons. Monthly drug test 100 bucks plus 50 co pay plus a hassle and humiliation to get the RX. I love my regular Dr and she didn't want to outsource me to Pain Management but had no choice. I didn't last long. I have never been treated like such a criminal in my life as I brought in all recent MRI, X-rays  and a file full of Doctors notes. They didn't even LOOK at them! 

[peacheslatour]

It's called CYA. Cover Your Ass. The feds are cracking down on over prescription and everyone wants to make sure they don't get jammed up. It's beyond ridiculous.

[mamadrama]

1 hour ago, FairyDusted said:

@mamadrama summed it up so well I wanted to quote it but instead came by the post it note. Ugh! Chronic patient myself. Like MD said I also quit for the exact same reasons. Monthly drug test 100 bucks plus 50 co pay plus a hassle and humiliation to get the RX. I love my regular Dr and she didn't want to outsource me to Pain Management but had no choice. I didn't last long. I have never been treated like such a criminal in my life as I brought in all recent MRI, X-rays  and a file full of Doctors notes. They didn't even LOOK at them! 

Right on. I am also tired of being treated like a criminal or, sometimes worse, "shamed" for needing painmedication. None of us "like" taking pain medication but some of us actually need it to function. None of us chronic pain patients walked into the office and demanded oxycodones. Most of us had years of PT, multiple surgeries, natural pain relief methods accupuncture, massage therapy, etc. Then we had years of the over the counter meds, followed by things like Topamax, Naproxen, Elavil, etc. If we are on opioids it is because they are literally our last option, not our first.

My chronic pain elevates my BP, which is bad news for my thoracic aneurysm. The average lifespan for someone with my condition is 42, I am 38. I have lost literally every organ that I can safely live without due to ruptures. There is no cure for what I have, no treatment-only pain management. Thanks to the way we are treated, however, I have chosen to turn to kratom. I won't spend my last few years treated like a criminal.

I would love to see a show follow an actual chronic pain patient around today.

[Ottis]

On 5/16/2018 at 10:56 PM, Rap541 said:

Not necessarily. One reason I am not teaching despite the stated desperate need for high school science teachers is that when I had my freshly minted teaching certification in hand, I couldn't find a job within 100 miles of where I lived where I would be hired full time with benefits. Every single school wanted me to start as part time and "see how I worked out" for an entire year. I had a full time job with benefits already, I couldn't afford to "pay my dues". Ironically staying in the job I had means I now make twice what a tenured teacher with 20 years of experience makes.  But my point here is that its really not as simply as "if you would just get off your ass and look".

Wait - so you already had a job that paid twice what the job you *wanted* would pay? So you were already ahead of the Connors due to, I assume, education and good choices? I rest my case, and congratulations!

On 5/17/2018 at 11:21 AM, qtpye said:

Yes, one of the fascinating things about the original series portrayed was the counter-dependant relationship the Conners had with Landford. They all complained about how it was a dead end town, but it was obvious that Dan and Roseanne were well liked by their friends and neighbors with the notable exception of Kathy Bowman. Landford was their home and they would not have felt comfortable anywhere else, where they would have had to start all over building relationships with people.

You're right, and my issue is that the Connors can't have it both ways. If you choose to stay in what you feel is a dead-end town because of friendships, or you feel it is more comfortable, or you think you can't afford to move (what's to afford? Sell the house, take minimum items and move), then you can't also spend every half hour we watch complaining about the lack of opportunities you have and the fact there are few jobs with "full benefits." This is what grates. Lots of people end up in difficult situations (see "The Middle"), but they don't blame their situations on others. That seems to be the underlying message of the dialogue on this show ... many of the characters are stuck because big business, or the VA, or the health care system, or anyone else but the Connors cause the problem. Meanwhile, Roseanne has a pill addiction, Becky leaves school AND lies to a "client" about her age to be a surrogate, Dan is still hanging dry wall, etc.  There is a way to straddle that line, and Roseanne struggles with it.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Ottis

[Rap541]

Quote

Wait - so you already had a job that paid twice what the job you *wanted* would pay? So you were already ahead of the Connors due to, I assume, education and good choices? I rest my case, and congratulations!

Not exactly. At the time, the job I had while getting my teaching certification paid 23000 a year (this was 19 years ago). Starting pay for teachers full time in my state would have been 25,000 a year. The problem was that while schools were whining that they desperately needed teachers, all the schools within reasonable driving distance had a policy of not hiring new teachers full time. So to start, for that first year, I would have dropped to 18-19k and lost my benefits. At the time, I just could not afford the pay cut to take the job that I thought I wanted. The irony is that thru annual raises and sales bonuses, my current wages are well above a tenured teacher's pay.

This is a case though where I have little sympathy for Darlene's hesitation at taking Crystal's good job. People look down on my job all the time (I'm a call center rep at a credit card company) and I just look back from my full bank account, paid for car, and healthy 401k. Did I mention how since I don't take my work home, I have plenty of time for my career as a blogger and novelist? Granted, I don't have children but children just make it more necessary to make compromises about work

[Browncoat]

3 hours ago, Ottis said:

you think you can't afford to move (what's to afford? Sell the house, take minimum items and move),

If you're underwater in the house, then you get nothing from the sale.  Moving can cost thousands of dollars, even if you rent a U-haul and pack and move it yourself.  Plus, packing, you have buddies to help load the truck -- when you get to your destination, it's just you, and maybe you can get your sofa in the house, and maybe you can't.  Then, of course, if you want to buy a new place, you have to have the down payment and closing costs (and possibly a short-term place to live and storage for your minimum items until you find a house).  If you rent, you have to have first and last month's rent plus a security deposit.  Moving is much easier when you're single with no kids, but there's still the question of whether or not you can unload your own truck or have to hire people.  And, if you're single, are you going to tow your car behind your U-haul or hire movers and drive your car? 

[Ottis]

4 hours ago, Browncoat said:

If you're underwater in the house, then you get nothing from the sale.  Moving can cost thousands of dollars, even if you rent a U-haul and pack and move it yourself.  Plus, packing, you have buddies to help load the truck -- when you get to your destination, it's just you, and maybe you can get your sofa in the house, and maybe you can't.  Then, of course, if you want to buy a new place, you have to have the down payment and closing costs (and possibly a short-term place to live and storage for your minimum items until you find a house).  If you rent, you have to have first and last month's rent plus a security deposit.  Moving is much easier when you're single with no kids, but there's still the question of whether or not you can unload your own truck or have to hire people.  And, if you're single, are you going to tow your car behind your U-haul or hire movers and drive your car? 

What year is it in this season on Roseanne? I assumed it was the current year, and I could be wrong. If I'm not, who is underwater on their home? Housing prices throughout this country are at all time highs. And the Connors have lived in that house since long before the economic recession. Their equity should be more than fine. Unless, you know, they foolishly refinanced and spent it. Which would be their choice.

As for the rest, I agree, that's hard. But if your goal is economic prosperity for your family, you do what you have to do. I work at a company where we have employees who live in a cheaper state with their families, but who drive each week for hours (sometimes 4-5 hours) to  expensive places like California  where they work, and they pull campers and stay on property during the week. If you want it, you do it. If you don't do it, you can't complain about it. Is it ideal? Nope. Is it even desirable? Not to some. But they are saving big $$$ and they are looking ahead to an early retirement.

2 hours ago, qtpye said:

It is annoying because the reality is that Darlene is very lucky to have parents that allow her to move back in even with her bratty disrespectful daughter. She is lucky that Crystal was willing to hook her up with a decent job even though she does not have a great attitude for employment in the service industry. Finally, she is lucky that Becky, who has experience in the field, stepped aside because she cares about the well being of her niece and nephew (apparently more so than their biological father). I say all this and I like Darlene.

Well said, and this is a good part of my central issue with this season. Darlene should be thankful, as they all should be, that they have what they have, given the decisions they have made. Instead, an increasing number of lines are complaints - about other people. And I like Darlene, too.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Ottis

[Browncoat]

They might not be underwater, but the house is not paid off.  They have mentioned a mortgage.  In an economically depressed area, their house might not be worth as much as one would think -- and possibly not a whole lot more than they paid for it.  Most houses in my economically depressed area either stay on the market for a very long time, or the owners have to reduce the prices dramatically to get a sale.  I can't imagine trying to stage that house!  No one could find all the doors to bathrooms and basements and such. 

But all that is moot, really -- my point was that moving, especially a family, is not necessarily as easy or inexpensive as you imply.  Minimal possessions will still fill a truck.  

[readster]

6 minutes ago, qtpye said:

 

 

I was thinking if Chuck and Dan were born a generation earlier they would be living comparatively better with pensions that would have covered a lot of their financial issues. I remember about hearing in the seventies guys who had retired from factory jobs and working for Sears Roebuck for thirty years, getting a gold watch and enjoying their sunset years. What is funny is a lot of late Baby Boomers and Gen X did not really want this life and thought it was a waste. Little, did they know that their older years would be much harder without the financial security that a solid pension, that used to come with a good working-class job, had to offer. 

Kids these days want everything handed to them. They want to be respected, but they won't give respect back. Similar to how Harris is written. Many kids these days want things right now, low attention spans because they can stream and share things instantly. Many of them have bought a clue and realized that middle management is in high demand or opening their own businesses are the way to go. Those are the kids who are going to make it while others will be most likely working until the day they die.

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

Quote

I am also tired of being treated like a criminal or, sometimes worse, "shamed" for needing pain medication. None of us "like" taking pain medication but some of us actually need it to function. None of us chronic pain patients walked into the office and demanded oxycodones. Most of us had years of PT, multiple surgeries, natural pain relief methods accupuncture, massage therapy, etc. 

First of all, I'm sending virtual hugs to all of you in pain and struggling to find relief - I feel your pain (literally). Where I live in Florida, going to a pain management specialist doesn't seem to be a big deal. My doctor prescribed me Tramadol (I'm allergic to Codeine) for some pretty severe back issues, but I didn't want to take them long term. After an MRI and PT, I was referred to a pain management specialist.  He worked with me to find solutions that didn't involve narcotics. I still have pain but I don't have to worry at this time about doing the whole monthly pee-in-a-cup-and-get-my-meds routine YET. 

However, I too am hoarding my leftover Tramadol JUST IN CASE of a zombie apocalypse or whatever. 

[peacheslatour]

I too am allergic to codeine. For severe pain I have been prescribed Demerol. And funnily enough, I too save prescription drugs I am no longer using ahead of the zombie apocalypse.  I am am on 3 different kinds of blood pressure meds and I live  in terror of running out of them. Health care in this country has reached the level of a scandal. American Exceptionalism indeed.

[ItsHelloPattiagain]

Quote

I too am allergic to codeine. For severe pain I have been prescribed Demerol. And funnily enough, I too save prescription drugs I am no longer using ahead of the zombie apocalypse

I grew up in the military health care system. It took waiting all day at the military hospital and begging to be able to get any kind of medication there. My mother started hoarding all kinds of medication and I guess I learned it from her. For a while when I was married, my (now ex) husband was in the military and I did the same. 

[Mu Shu]

On 5/21/2018 at 6:20 PM, Ottis said:

What year is it in this season on Roseanne? I assumed it was the current year, and I could be wrong. If I'm not, who is underwater on their home? Housing prices throughout this country are at all time highs. And the Connors have lived in that house since long before the economic recession. Their equity should be more than fine. Unless, you know, they foolishly refinanced and spent it. Which would be their choice.

As for the rest, I agree, that's hard. But if your goal is economic prosperity for your family, you do what you have to do. I work at a company where we have employees who live in a cheaper state with their families, but who drive each week for hours (sometimes 4-5 hours) to  expensive places like California  where they work, and they pull campers and stay on property during the week. If you want it, you do it. If you don't do it, you can't complain about it. Is it ideal? Nope. Is it even desirable? Not to some. But they are saving big $$$ and they are looking ahead to an early retirement.

Well said, and this is a good part of my central issue with this season. Darlene should be thankful, as they all should be, that they have what they have, given the decisions they have made. Instead, an increasing number of lines are complaints - about other people. And I like Darlene, too.

I agree in part, but we’re talking about people in their sixties here who would struggle with housing costs in a better market, and would likely not be able to find decent work.  Where would they move?  How marketable would they be?

But they should be able to get out from under the house and into a senior rental at the least.  Then depend on social security and part time jobs.  

[DXD526]

If Dan and Roseanne still have mortgage payments to make, that's another thing that's been changed. Back in the episode where they were discussing whether Dan should take the prison job, Roseanne says it pays enough for them to pay off the house and the cars: "You know what that means? A crappy house and two crappy cars!" Since he took the job, it was assumed that's what they did with the money. So they should own the house. It seems like this is another plot point that was considered canon and now is in limbo, along with Andy and the Lunch Box. 

[peacheslatour]

I think the prison job was not what they thought it was going to be and didn't last very long. I couldn't believe it when it happened. Dan bitched and moaned for years about how much he hated drywalling. It just didn't make sense.

[CatsAndMoreCats]

Regarding the "Why don't they just pick up and move?" argument, I read this article on-line today. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-05-23/why-do-americans-stay-when-their-town-has-no-future

From the article:  "They’re human beings embedded in communities. We’re forcing cultural and social change on people, and people don’t like that. They don’t move three states away for a hypothetical job. They want to live where they are because their parents are in the same town, and their grandmother is in the next town, and they go to church there. Just picking people up and relocating them, it doesn’t work like that."

[Rap541]

Its a fair point. I'm literally watching my family make some horrendous financial choices because some people are just flat out refusing to move from where they are to a better situation. They would be better off, they're actually making a terrible decision, and no one is listening to me, and its intensely frustrating because they're making financial decisions based on "Child X doesn't want to leave her school" and "All of our friends live here".

This is a situation where an elderly parent needs someone to live with them. Elderly parent lives in a southern red state but in a good school district and in a home with four bedrooms and no stairs. One adult child lives in a western state (me). Two other adult children live in a northeastern state in a rustbelt area where they rent a house and are about to be evicted. One has a job, one is on disability. There's a child. The working sibling could easily get a similar job in the southern state. The sibling on disability would still get disability. Hwoever they don't want to leave their friends or the rustbelt city and god forbid the child go to a school that isn't the one she started kindergarten in, so the elderly parent is selling the house to move north and buy a house big enough for all of them but this will likely be a fixer upper or a two story place because EVERYONE is poor and ranch house layouts are rare at their price point. 

I've done the math - the financially wise decision is for people to move south. I accept that there are some psychological things in play (elderly parent is very controlling, siblings are worried that if they move they are under the thumb of elderly parent)

Elderly parent offered to insist that my name be put on the title of this new house. I declined, despite how this effectively disinherits me because I am absolutely certain the siblings will struggle with the mortgage when elderly parent passes, and will refuse to sell the house as they will be living there. Plus, I somehow sense this *would* leave me holding the debt bag if they  couldn't manage the mortgage. 

But thats my pending financial nightmare....

[peacheslatour]

Jesus, that sounds terrible. People are living too long these days. JMHO

[FairyDusted]

My Daddy and his wife live with me in the downstairs that was made into an apartment. They have a full kitchen, living room, office and bed and bathroom. We (Hubby and me) were both raised in multigenerational homes so it's the norm in our area and culture to often have our aging parents in our care. The only issue is the steps now. We need that chair Dan pulled out of his neighbors house. Actually looking into it.

[peacheslatour]

42 minutes ago, FairyDusted said:

My Daddy and his wife live with me in the downstairs that was made into an apartment. They have a full kitchen, living room, office and bed and bathroom. We (Hubby and me) were both raised in multigenerational homes so it's the norm in our area and culture to often have our aging parents in our care. The only issue is the steps now. We need that chair Dan pulled out of his neighbors house. Actually looking into it.

My hubby is enchanted with those things and we don't even have stairs!

[FairyDusted]

? Now that’s funny @peacheslatour! We joke about using it for laundry. He keeps on yelling about a terrif tax for me cutting through to do laundry. I told him I paid for the machines already. He threatened to make them coined. 

[peacheslatour]

32 minutes ago, FairyDusted said:

? Now that’s funny @peacheslatour! We joke about using it for laundry. He keeps on yelling about a terrif tax for me cutting through to do laundry. I told him I paid for the machines already. He threatened to make them coined. 

I love it!