S03.E02: IFF

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

The Rocinante answers an unexpected distress signal; Bobbie and Avasarala find themselves being hunted by a mysterious captor; UN Secretary-General Sorrento-Gillis brings in a colleague from his past to lend an ear during this crucial time of war.

 

[johntfs]

As much as that rocked, I cannot wait for next week's episode.

[mjc570]

Wonderful episode, so much happened.  The only thing I did not like was Elizabeth Mitchell - no disrespect, but I'm pretty tired of her, she seemed to play the same basic character, although here she's a pastor married to a woman, but she is so sanctimonious and self-righteous.  Everything else, though - acting, writing, design - all great.  This is probably one of the best visualized shows ever.

[Netfoot]

17 minutes ago, mjc570 said:

The only thing I did not like was Elizabeth Mitchell - no disrespect, but I'm pretty tired of her, she seemed to play the same basic character, although here she's a pastor married to a woman, but she is so sanctimonious and self-righteous.

Actually, while she is no personal favourite of mine, I thought that it was not a bad casting choice for Dr. Anna.  Sanctimonious and self-righteous?  She's a pastor!  Couldn't be more appropriate.  Guess we'll have to see how my opinion stands up in the face of future developments...

[JZL]

Team Avasarala meets Team Holden.  Can't wait! 

And go Wes!

I feel a tad sorry for Dominique Tipper, since they've sorta shoved Naomi into the closet storage bin for the time being.

[tennisgurl]

I am about finished with season one (still moving!) and I am super glad I decided to finally try this show! Its such a fun, but intense show, and it looks so beautiful! 

I cant wait to meet Bobbie officially. Its weird watching the show in two different places, I am still trying to play catch up a lot. She and Avasarala are a great team. And now they're meeting up with the Rocinante! I cant wait to see them all interacting in the next episode. All the disparate plots and characters are starting to line up and come together. 

This show is very cinematic, its very impressive. It really does feel like the characters are in the future, and in space. Its beautiful, but also very lived in and real. 

My binge can hopefully go faster in the near future, hopefully I will be caught up by next week. And see more of Mormons...in SPAAAAAACE. Among other things.

Edited April 19, 2018 by tennisgurl

[marinw]

Could someone explain how the Pinas Contorta was able to stop the missiles? I don’t quite  get that. Also, space is big. It seems a bit of a coincidence that the Contorta was able to get to the Razorback in such a short time (Hours? Less the a day?). It was like a call back to Star Trek when the Enterprise intercepted a distress call and was the only ship in the sector.

Other than those nitpicks, great episode. This is the most vulnerable we’ve ever seen Chrisjen, yet she is still a badass. I could really feel how rough that ship is on someone who hasn’t trained for such high gravity travel. The way those chairs rotate independent of the rest of the ship is amazing.

Edited April 19, 2018 by marinw

[marinw]

One of the thing that makes The Expanse different from other “Space” shows is that it doesn’t ignore or handwave the laws of gravity and physics, it embraces them. Those tools flying around added to the tension. Poor Prax, this is what he gets for being a tie-breaker.

Last season I complained about those annoying ads on the bottom of the screen. I don’t recall seeing any last night. (I saw it on the Canadian Space channel).

That Razorback could prove handy in the future.

[shrewd.buddha]

It appears that team Holden is collecting all the cool space toys : The Rocinante Pinas Contorta and now the Razorback. 

I also did not quite understand how the missiles were suspended alongside the Razorback during the space fight. 

One possible change I did notice and appreciated - Christjen and the other political characters are not over monologue-ing this season. Not sure if it is intentional or if there is too much action right now, but I like it.  In the first two seasons the characters were continually inserting some story about their childhood or some other aside into every conversation. Sometimes that can be interesting - but it was happening way too often and too many characters were doing it. 

Edited April 19, 2018 by shrewd.buddha

[Raja]

2 hours ago, marinw said:

Could someone explain how the Pinas Contorta was able to stop the missiles? I don’t quite  get that. Also, space is big. It seems a bit of a coincidence that the Contorta was able to get to the Razorback in such a short time (Hours? Less the a day?). It was like a call back to Star Trek when the Enterprise intercepted a distress call and was the only ship in the sector.

Other than those nitpicks, great episode. This is the most vulnerable we’ve ever seen Chrisjen, yet she is still a badass. I could really feel how rough that ship is on someone who hasn’t trained for such high gravity travel. The way those chairs rotate independent of the rest of the ship is amazing.

 

I would have to re-watch the battle but it seemed the Sergeant timed her burn just in time  to avoid the torpedoes locking on her as a second target spiting off from the primary. When she eased up they probably closed the range and were required and fired upon again only to have the intercept missiles fired by Holden save them.

 

edit opps I am not up with the names yet.

Edited April 19, 2018 by Raja

[zobot81]

2 hours ago, marinw said:

Could someone explain how the Pinas Contorta was able to stop the missiles? I don’t quite  get that. Also, space is big. It seems a bit of a coincidence that the Contorta was able to get to the Razorback in such a short time (Hours? Less the a day?). It was like a call back to Star Trek when the Enterprise intercepted a distress call and was the only ship in the sector.

Other than those nitpicks, great episode. This is the most vulnerable we’ve ever seen Chrisjen, yet she is still a badass. I could really feel how rough that ship is on someone who hasn’t trained for such high gravity travel. The way those chairs rotate independent of the rest of the ship is amazing.

It seems to me (seems is the operative word, here), but it seems like the Contorta's plan was to basically weaponized the Razorback, by launching five (-ish) missiles at it, which they had somehow programmed to hover closely by the racer's chassis, as a sort of missile defense system.  Okay, wait, I think the Contorta's first move was to detonate two (?) of their own missiles (ahead of the Razorback), in order to intercept/detonate the first round of locked missiles, coming from the UN ship. THEN the Contorta did a pass over the UN ship and basically shot out their engines with I think their last two missiles, just to disable it (not to blow it up).  There was a lot of gunfire coming from the Contorta, too, and now they have no ammo?  I think? Lol.  Ugh.  I guess  I'll hafta watch again tonight, to see if I'm like waaaay off on what happened. 

Maybe someone with better observations skills can swoop in and set it straight, in the meantime...

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, marinw said:

One of the thing that makes The Expanse different from other “Space” shows is that it doesn’t ignore or handwave the laws of gravity and physics, it embraces them. Those tools flying around added to the tension. Poor Prax, this is what he gets for being a tie-breaker.

The second I saw the drill I was expecting someone to get skewered. I'm glad they defied my expectations.

I'm a little confused about what they're doing with the Protomolecule kids, but I expect they'll explain more.

9 hours ago, Netfoot said:

Actually, while she is no personal favourite of mine, I thought that it was not a bad casting choice for Dr. Anna.  Sanctimonious and self-righteous?  She's a pastor!  Couldn't be more appropriate.  Guess we'll have to see how my opinion stands up in the face of future developments...

She's not just a pastor, but an activist pastor. Doubled down on the personality type. I like the actress, though it is true she tends to get cast for these types of roles.

I think her sanctimony and self-righteousness is a good counter to Errinwright's devious and manipulative character. A little salt and pepper, if you will. (eh, that metaphor isn't working but it's too early to come up with something else.)

On the other hand, she wasn't adverse to getting off her high horse in order to strong arm her "friend" for money (for the good of her people, of course, but still). I'm curious to find out why she's so angry with what's his name.

[MissLucas]

Not sure how the battle went down myself but here's a bit of dialogue that might help understand parts of it. That's Naomi just after the scene with the torpedoes circling around the Razorback.

Quote

Detonation confirmed, two of ours for two of theirs, Copy that. Our other six are protecting the Razorback. 

So @zobot81's battle analysis is quite spot on.

43 minutes ago, zobot81 said:

It seems to me (seems is the operative word, here), but it seems like the Contorta's plan was to basically weaponized the Razorback, by launching five (-ish) missiles at it, which they had somehow programmed to hover closely by the racer's chassis, as a sort of missile defense system.  Okay, wait, I think the Contorta's first move was to detonate two (?) of their own missiles (ahead of the Razorback), in order to intercept/detonate the first round of locked missiles, coming from the UN ship. THEN the Contorta did a pass over the UN ship and basically shot out their engines with I think their last two missiles, just to disable it (not to blow it up).  There was a lot of gunfire coming from the Contorta, too, and now they have no ammo?  I think? Lol.  Ugh.  I guess  I'll hafta watch again tonight, to see if I'm like waaaay off on what happened. 

Maybe someone with better observations skills can swoop in and set it straight, in the meantime...

I was so impatient for Bobbie and Avasarala meeting with the Roci (don't care for her current name) that I could barely bring myself to pay attention to all the other plots. Though I am intrigued by what will happen next time Anna and Errinwright cross swords. Mild book spoilers ahead:

Spoiler

Interesting that they bring Anna into the narrative so early. But they did the same with Avasarala to great effect so I'm all for it.

Edited April 19, 2018 by MissLucas

[marinw]

42 minutes ago, zobot81 said:

It seems to me (seems is the operative word, here), but it seems like the Contorta's plan was to basically weaponized the Razorback, by launching five (-ish) missiles at it, which they had somehow programmed to hover closely by the racer's chassis, as a sort of missile defense system.  Okay, wait, I think the Contorta's first move was to detonate two (?) of their own missiles (ahead of the Razorback), in order to intercept/detonate the first round of locked missiles, coming from the UN ship

Cool. I need to re-watch.

[Bizabra]

Just wish they'd given Anna the red hair she has in the books. Red is her nickname!!! Otherwise, I'm fine with the actor.

[TV Anonymous]

Flying fighter jets is very physically demanding and only selected few are able to do that. Now imagine doing that in space where there is no drag and no gravity with much more powerful engine, in a racing spacecraft no less. Then imagine doing all of that as an older woman with no military or piloting training whatsoever. I was cringing during the space fight scene and looking at how Chrisjen enduring it.

[MissLucas]

For those interested in the battle scenes someone re-edited the whole space battle in sequence without pesky B and C plots. You can easily find it on youtube.

Forgot my favorite line by Avarasala after  Bobbie used military lingo: 'Speak politician!'.

And nice to see that Holden is quite the tactical thinker when he puts his mind to it. 

[Netfoot]

2 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

Flying fighter jets is very physically demanding and only selected few are able to do that.

We've seen in earlier footage that they have modern equivalent to G-Suits, with auto-injection of "stuff" into the neck area of the subject, etc.  No such was to be seen on the racing yacht. 

[Holmbo]

I didn't like this one as much as the first one of this season. Everything with Bobbie and Avasarala was great. I feel gullible but I actually bought that the Roci crew (I don't like the current name either, maybe if Alex gives it a nickname) wouldn't help them. I thought it would be a near miss for them meeting and that some other martians would pick them up instead.

I didn't care for the UN part. I don't know the purpose of this Dr Anna character is and I'm not invested in her, but maybe she'll grow on me.

The part about Amos maneuvering around the ship with the tools flying around was a little over the top IMO. I would have liked it better if the tension was that the Roci had to cut the burn for some seconds for them to secure the tools.

[MissLucas]

46 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

We've seen in earlier footage that they have modern equivalent to G-Suits, with auto-injection of "stuff" into the neck area of the subject, etc.  No such was to be seen on the racing yacht. 

Bobbie initiated the juicing at the end of last episode before starting up the Razorback - the device was in the seats and I think the injection went into their lower backs.

[thuganomics85]

Damn, the whole "Ship Formally Known as The Rocinante" saving the Razorback from Sadavir's U.N. ship was some nonstop intensity!  Part of me got frustrated when they kept cutting back to the other plots, but another part of probably just relieved for the breathers.  I'm still not sure about all the science that was involved, but it seemed like they basically found a way to turn the ship's missiles against it, and when they exploded, they used it as a distraction to swoop in and take out the engines.  Certainly a risky and likely suicidal way to do things, but one I can see Holden come up with and Alex is certainly one of the few that can pull that off (in style!)

Glad we got more Amos this go around and pairing him up with Prax was intriguing.  Them dodging flying tools (thanks to Prax not properly stowing them) might have gotten close to silly, but it worked for me.  But I like that Amos confronted him about not giving up on Mei, because underneath his more sociopathic tendencies, Amos does seem to care for the innocence.

Speaking of which, Mei and all of the other children are unwittingly being used by Mao and Strickland as a way to control the protomolecule.  There really isn't a line those two (and Sadavir) wouldn't cross.  Also, I totally forgot Ted Atherton plays Strickland and between this and his Gander on Killjoys, he really knows how to bring on the creepiness.

Elizabeth Mitchell is here as Dr. Anna, I see.  Definitely having a bit of a "that's different" moment since she isn't

Spoiler

a redhead like she was in the books

, but I think she'll fit the role well.  Really looking forward to more showdowns with Sadvair.  The tension between those two was chilling!

Chrisjen is tough as hell, to say the least.  Hopefully she'll recover.  

Finally, on one hand, that was gratuitous shot of Bobby's butt near the end.  On the other hand, Frankie Adams really is rocking that outfit!

[Haleth]

LOL  Yeah, I laughed at that.  Hello, Frankie's butt!

The episode was exhausting to watch, even though the story line wasn't advanced much.  It must have been crazy to film the scene with Amos and Prax during the fight.  (Yes, I know all the flying tools were CGI.)  Love, love any scene with Bobbie and Chrisjen.  Such a perfect pairing.

Question about Anna in the book thread.

[MissLucas]

I was actually annoyed by the tools scene - it felt like unnecessary filler. The show has made it amply clear that there a gazillion ways to get killed on a space-ship (Avasarala almost stroking out was just another reminder) that I felt somewhat exasperated every time they returned to that subplot. I was desperate for the Roci crew to meet Bobbie and Avarasala!

[marinw]

45 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

 

 

45 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

I was actually annoyed by the tools scene - it felt like unnecessary filler. The show has made it amply clear that there a gazillion ways to get killed on a space-ship (Avasarala almost stroking out was just another reminder) that I felt somewhat exasperated every time they returned to that subplot. I was desperate for the Roci crew to meet Bobbie and Avarasala!

I was at first annoyed too, and then I concluded that this was like an episode-long equivalent of a car chase. It was actually a brilliant bit a TV producing.

As for the tools, I found that scene riveting. It does show us the consequences of how not properly completing a seemingly minor task-in this case securing the tool locker-can have serious consequences.

Edited April 20, 2018 by marinw

[snowwhyte]

I knew it wasn't going to happen but I was really hoping Jules Pierre Mao would grow a conscience and say that experimenting on children was a step too far. I don't get how any of the people working on that project can do that. I didn't do a rewatch but wasn't there a scientist working on the protomolecules who had a procedure to turn off his empathy? 

[marinw]

2 hours ago, snowwhyte said:

I knew it wasn't going to happen but I was really hoping Jules Pierre Mao would grow a conscience and say that experimenting on children was a step too far.

Simple racism. Mao is from Earth, these kids are Belters, and thereby expendable.

Side Note: I though Prax and his family were “Jovians” and not Belters, as they live on one of Jupiter’s moon, not in the Belt.

Edited April 20, 2018 by marinw

[Haleth]

I think anyone from beyond Mars (including the outer planet moons) is considered a Belter?  

[WildPlum]

Fun episode, once you get past the "wow, space is so vast yet the Contorta (nee: Roci) crew just happened to be close enough to pick up Bobby's weak transmission"? Eee, I get that it is good that the two crews will be together (Bobby and Amos, now there is a powerhouse), but the coincidence, it burns.

This episode it looks like Amos is struggling between trying to attach to another moral figure and trying to really detach. He wants to let someone figure out the right and wrong of things and be able to feel like he is, ultimately anyway, on the side of right (not necessarily moral or legally right) by letting that other person make the deeper calls.

Interesting that the protomolecule, in all of it's forms, whether it be as goo in a jar, human-monster hybrids or the goo motherload on Venus, seem to be attached with instantaneous communication. Although the show just ignores the issues of FTL transmission and just shows all the communications as instantaneous, the human transmissions can't be. It is 390 million miles from Earth to Io, they have to have a serious lag. Earth to Mars is 54 million miles and we currently have a 20 minute lag. But, hey, I have to say this show does fairly well, at crossing explanation with convenient plotty hand-waving. There isn't a lot of drama in raging at a transmission that is 28 minutes old.

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, WildPlum said:

This episode it looks like Amos is struggling between trying to attach to another moral figure and trying to really detach. He wants to let someone figure out the right and wrong of things and be able to feel like he is, ultimately anyway, on the side of right (not necessarily moral or legally right) by letting that other person make the deeper calls.

And yet, it seemed to me, that Amos is starting to be a moral figure in his own right, that he is, in the absence of a leader, becoming his own moral compass. Which would be cool.

[Danny Franks]

Well, what a tease! Setting up a Roci/Avasarala meeting in the opening mintues, then making us wait until next week!

It's really interesting to see Avasarala so out of her comfort zone. Asking questions, seeking reassurance, you can see she's unnerved... And you can see how much it pisses her off. And that's without getting into how much the G from the burns hurt her. A nice call back to the gravity torture she inflicted on that Belter at the start of season one.

Prax and his botany nerdery is sweet. And a very neat way of addressing air shortages on the ship. But he's also a genuinely good person, prepared to help strangers just because they need help.

Poor Naomi, still getting the cold shoulder, and jabs like "let's you know if someone's on your team or not." But they still work like an oiled machine. Amos seems to be firmly behind Holden now, even if Holden is being a self righteous asshole (which is pretty much his default setting). He does need that person to act as a moral compass for him, but seems to be trying to learn from the good examples he sees, and form his own compass.

The space battle scenes in this show are so cool. There's an authentic feel to them that's missing from most sci-fi shows, and movies. More like a three-dimensional naval battle than dogfighting between fighter aircraft.

I honestly don't remember much about Anna from the books, so I can't say whether she's much different or not. I liked that we got a glimpse of how the Earthers are reacting to impending war, and the nod towards the obliviousness of power, when Anna goes from the anger and yelling of the protests, to the serenity of the U.N. Secretary General's office.

And wow, is this show accidentally topical, exploring the moral limits of power and corruption at the highest levels.

[marinw]

2 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

It's really interesting to see Avasarala so out of her comfort zone. Asking questions, seeking reassurance, you can see she's unnerved... And you can see how much it pisses her off. And that's without getting into how much the G from the burns hurt her. A nice call back to the gravity torture she inflicted on that Belter at the start of season one.

Great observation @Danny Franks. I’m rooting for Avasarala (and Bobbie) but I need to remind myself that she has done some very nasty things.

[Emily Thrace]

8 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Well, what a tease! Setting up a Roci/Avasarala meeting in the opening mintues, then making us wait until next week!

Yeah that actually kinda of pissed me off. Would it have been so bad to have Avasarala say James Fucking Holden and then pass out? As written it was kind of an anti-climax. 

It seems Cotyar is a case of never found the body. Which naturally in tv land means he fine and will pop up when we least expect it. I hope it means he gets to stab Errinwright through the back in the end.

Something I realized based on his name and politics is that the UN SG is supposed to be Latino of some variety. I get that its trickier to cast that particular group in TO since its only 5.5% of the population and most of that is fairly young but its not like they can't bring in an American. Was Edward James Olmos busy or did he just not like the proto matter story? Or even a Canadian Aboriginal would be closer than a white guy. Tom Jackson would have worked as Earths leader and he would have played well with Avasarala.

[WildPlum]

If the producers actually cared about ethnicity in casting, they wouldn't have an Iranian actress sashaying about in saris. "She has dark hair, striking features and an exotic accent - sure, viewers will believe she is from India, just put her in a sari!"

[Holmbo]

17 hours ago, snowwhyte said:

I knew it wasn't going to happen but I was really hoping Jules Pierre Mao would grow a conscience and say that experimenting on children was a step too far. I don't get how any of the people working on that project can do that. I didn't do a rewatch but wasn't there a scientist working on the protomolecules who had a procedure to turn off his empathy? 

I got the feeling he's a bit regretful about what he's started.  First he said that the whole project should be shut down. Then when Strickland said that those children were the key to controlling what was happening on Venus he said "do what you have to do". I think that the two scientist working in the background had their empathy turned of too, their demeanor was the same as that last guy.

11 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

It's really interesting to see Avasarala so out of her comfort zone. Asking questions, seeking reassurance, you can see she's unnerved... And you can see how much it pisses her off. And that's without getting into how much the G from the burns hurt her. A nice call back to the gravity torture she inflicted on that Belter at the start of season one.

That's a good point. She was so smug about it. The weak belter not being able to take all that G.

2 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

It seems Cotyar is a case of never found the body. Which naturally in tv land means he fine and will pop up when we least expect it. I hope it means he gets to stab Errinwright through the back in the end.

He must be alive. Otherwise they would have shown his ship being blown up in a spectacular fashion. and made sure Bobbie and Avasarala knew about it.
I bet his faith will be unknown untill he shows up somewere in a climactic moment to just turn everything on it's head. Either on Earth or somewhere in space. Do you think his ship had some scanners so they could see what happened to the others? That they were picked up and by who? Or will it just be completely unknown to them.

[marinw]

8 hours ago, WildPlum said:

If the producers actually cared about ethnicity in casting, they wouldn't have an Iranian actress sashaying about in saris. "She has dark hair, striking features and an exotic accent - sure, viewers will believe she is from India, just put her in a sari!"

I respectfully disagree. Avasarala's colourful, elabrote outfits stand out amongst a sea of nondescript business suits and uniforms. This is a deliberate choice by the character, it’s part of what makes her so intimidating.

Spoiler

I saw a clip of a future episode where she’s wearing a jumpsuit and even that outfit is amazing.

The other women on this show,  Naomi, Drummer, and Bobbie, are dressed much as anyone else, although Bobbie has her awesome power armour.

Edited April 21, 2018 by marinw

[Netfoot]

9 hours ago, WildPlum said:

If the producers actually cared about ethnicity in casting, they wouldn't have an Iranian actress sashaying about in saris.

And they should never cast Australians as Americans, or Americans as English...  Or humans as Martians, or Belters, or princesses of Alderaan or farmers from tattooine...

These people are actors, and they are all pretending to be what they aren't.  Shohreh Aghdashloo may not be an indian, but she is a reasonable facsimile thereof.  So, I won't suffer any anguish about it.

In any case, it's better to get an actress with talent than one that is ethnically perfect.  

[johntfs]

10 hours ago, WildPlum said:

If the producers actually cared about ethnicity in casting, they wouldn't have an Iranian actress sashaying about in saris. "She has dark hair, striking features and an exotic accent - sure, viewers will believe she is from India, just put her in a sari!"

I see no reason Chrisjen why can't be an ethnically Persian woman who married an Indian.  Race and sexual preference aren't nearly as much of a thing in the Expanse-verse as place seems to be.  If the KKK still exists on Earth it probably allows Blacks, Gays, and Hispanics to join them in hating on Martians and Belters.

[Emily Thrace]

14 hours ago, WildPlum said:

If the producers actually cared about ethnicity in casting, they wouldn't have an Iranian actress sashaying about in saris. "She has dark hair, striking features and an exotic accent - sure, viewers will believe she is from India, just put her in a sari!"

I think they care but its obvious sometimes that TPTB and the original author are white. The Secretary General one of the most powerful characters on the show defaulted to white in their minds is unfortunate. Its also notable that while the show has many POC it rarely informs thier characters with the exception of Avasarala and sometimes Naomi. I get that some of that is the idea that thier Martian or belter identies have replaced thier Earthbound races but that's a scifi trope that's never rung true to me. A lot of groups like Italian americans have left Italy hundreds of years ago in some cases but still have a strong sense of identity.

[Holmbo]

2 minutes ago, Emily Thrace said:

I think they care but its obvious sometimes that TPTB and the original author are white. The Secretary General one of the most powerful characters on the show defaulted to white in their minds is unfortunate. Its also notable that while the show has many POC it rarely informs thier characters with the exception of Avasarala and sometimes Naomi. I get that some of that is the idea that thier Martian or belter identies have replaced thier Earthbound races but that's a scifi trope that's never rung true to me. A lot of groups like Italian americans have left Italy hundreds of years ago in some cases but still have a strong sense of identity.

I agree that in the real future race will still matter to many people. There will still be cultural baggage to deal with, and from what I've read there are biological factors at play too, instincts to favor people who look like ones family members. I'm fine with The Expanse doing the Post racism, sexism, hetronormativity etc-world though. Because sci-fi doesn't exist just to predict what will happen. It's also a way to explore and discuss what kind of development of the world we do want.
But there must be some white privilege in this expanse world too. Considering how many white people seem to be in the UN, I agree it would have been better with a latino Secretary general.

[Netfoot]

33 minutes ago, Emily Thrace said:

I think they care but its obvious sometimes that TPTB and the original author are white.

"TPTB" is Mark Fergus and Hawk Ostby.  Ostby was born in india.  

[Clanstarling]

2 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

"TPTB" is Mark Fergus and Hawk Ostby.  Ostby was born in india.  

Otsby's mother is Indian, and his father is Norwegian. And he's lived in Malaysia and Singapore, as well as Norway and the US. He's had a pretty rounded education in different cultures, it seems.

[marinw]

FWIW, the Showrunner is Naren Shankar:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naren_Shankar

Edited April 21, 2018 by marinw

[marinw]

Does anyone know what the title "IFF" means?

[johntfs]

3 hours ago, marinw said:

Does anyone know what the title "IFF" means?

Identify Friend or Foe.  It's a signal that modern military vehicles (usually ships or planes, which can engage targets far beyond visual range) use to identify themselves to others in the military, so those others won't shoot at them.

[jhlipton]

On 4/20/2018 at 12:04 AM, thuganomics85 said:

underneath his more sociopathic tendencies, Amos does seem to care for the innocence.

 

 

The armchair psychiatrists here have diagnosed Amos with Anti-Social Personality Disorder, not sociopathy.  He cares too much about a few things to be true sociopath. And his upbringing, as seen in the novella The Churn, makes him very sympathetic to innocents (again, not something found in true sociopaths.

On 4/20/2018 at 9:49 AM, WildPlum said:

This episode it looks like Amos is struggling between trying to attach to another moral figure and trying to really detach. He wants to let someone figure out the right and wrong of things and be able to feel like he is, ultimately anyway, on the side of right (not necessarily moral or legally right) by letting that other person make the deeper calls.

Amos is self-aware enough to know that he has no moral center.  His whole life he's attached to someone who would tell him right from wrong.  Since Naomi has let him down, he can;t trust her to be his moral center right now, but he can tell that Prax is a good substitute.

[marinw]

6 hours ago, johntfs said:

Identify Friend or Foe.

I learn something new everyday! Thanks.

[WildPlum]

I don't have a problem with the producers picking the best actor for a role when that actor's ethnicity (or, heck, gender)  doesn't match whatever the character is in the book - this is the TV version, not the book version, and the TV characters often have a different look and feel. I do think her outfits on this show have been gorgeous, but I don't get sticking with saris because the character in the book is Indian (and quite a bit older and saltier than the TV Chrisjen).

In the first season, Chrisjen is torturing a Belter by making him just hang in earth's gravity and they actually cast someone (for his, what 2 lines?) that was tall, thin and gangly to match the physical description of Belters. After that, though, I think the producers decided it was too much trouble to cast for "Belter body type" AND acting ability. There are several instances where phenotype is clearly supposed to matter (Miller's Earther partner, Prax on the ship when his new girlfriend gets spaced with a bunch of other "Inners") but sort of didn't work in to the casting call.

Lol, you cant have everything....

[CaptainE]

On 4/19/2018 at 6:18 AM, marinw said:

One of the thing that makes The Expanse different from other “Space” shows is that it doesn’t ignore or handwave the laws of gravity and physics, it embraces them. Those tools flying around added to the tension. Poor Prax, this is what he gets for being a tie-breaker.

Last season I complained about those annoying ads on the bottom of the screen. I don’t recall seeing any last night. (I saw it on the Canadian Space channel).

That Razorback could prove handy in the future.

It’s not too bad physics wise, and the visuals are fantastic, but there are too many loud explosions and rocket noise.

No air = no sound

Very few shows or movies get this right.

[Emily Thrace]

On 2018-04-21 at 4:04 PM, Holmbo said:

I agree that in the real future race will still matter to many people. There will still be cultural baggage to deal with, and from what I've read there are biological factors at play too, instincts to favor people who look like ones family members. I'm fine with The Expanse doing the Post racism, sexism, hetronormativity etc-world though. Because sci-fi doesn't exist just to predict what will happen. It's also a way to explore and discuss what kind of development of the world we do want.
But there must be some white privilege in this expanse world too. Considering how many white people seem to be in the UN, I agree it would have been better with a latino Secretary general.

Okay I know you don't mean to be offensive bit I really don't consider my ethnicity to be "baggage". Its a part of me like my eye color. I think there are advantages to having different points of view and different experiences. Like Prax applying his botany experience to life on the ship. His different experience helped the crew conserve oxygen.  Just as my experience as someone who grew up across the river from a reservation helped me figure out Amos. 

 

That's what really bothers me about the idea of a "post racial" utopia.  It implies race is a negative thing. It also tends to mean everyone conforms to standard white American values. I feel like its boring and perpetuates the very thing(racism) its trying to avoid.

I also don't think thier being POC involved in the show removes the possibility of racial bias affecting casting. Even POC can fall into those traps without realizing it. It does explain why Avasarala is so well written. I also doubt the SG was a case of ability over appearance, the actor is a pretty mediocre Canadian character actor.

[jhlipton]

11 hours ago, WildPlum said:

they actually cast someone (for his, what 2 lines?) that was tall, thin and gangly to match the physical description of Belters.

Naomi pretty much fits that description.  I think Diogo was pretty thin and gangly, as was Miller. Drummer fits that description fairly well. And Fred Johnson is an Earther who moved to the Belt. 

5 hours ago, CaptainE said:

It’s not too bad physics wise, and the visuals are fantastic, but there are too many loud explosions and rocket noise.

No air = no sound    Very few shows or movies get this right.

Some shows have tried space travel with no sound, and it doesn't test well.  Audiences expect noise.