S05.E16: Inside Voices

[Cranberry]

Coulson is forced to team up with surprising allies to save the world, while the S.H.I.E.L.D. team attempts to track down and rescue him.

[Lady Calypso]

And, we continue to have everyone but Daisy be wary of Fitz. I see she's even softened up a bit with Fitz from the last episode, calling him "sick". Yep, they're already handwaving his actions. This is why shows like this can't pull moves if they're going to backtrack. Mack was, at least, smart to keep Fitz in his prison. 

Thanks, show, for getting me very pissed at Simmons. She's getting one of her, Fitz, or Yo-Yo killed. I was super irritated by her "cannot be killed" mantra. Also, Yo-Yo can go away as well. They're all losing it. Congrats, show. Now it's not just Fitz that I'm hating. I'm starting to understand how Deke is related to Fitzsimmons...at least this season's Fitzsimmons. 

The Coulson/Carl/Talbot stuff was surprisingly fun. I was surprised that Carl felt very strongly about Talbot. I was not expecting Coulson to actually die for a minute, but I chuckled at Talbot's response to Carl bringing him back. 

I really liked the Robin/May stuff. I felt bad for Polly, who didn't know about May/Robin's relationship and had to watch her daughter bond with her future mother. But yeah, of course them analyzing a kid's drawing to find some specific mountain range is going to work. 

That end card, though. Ian Quinn AND Raina?! I'm pretty sure it's a flashback scene...but a newly filmed flashback scene. Good on them for getting Ruth Negga back, if it was newly filmed! If not, then I guess it was some lost footage from season 1. 

[kitlee625]

I liked the episode, but it's really impressive just how bad Daisy is as a leader. Everyone dislikes her and/or is actively plotting against her. What a great future Director SHIELD. </sarcasm>

 

I like the May/Robin scenes and found them genuinely sweet. I also laughed at the humor of Talboit / Coulson / Creel.

 

The music tried to build drama with the Simmons-cheating-death scene, but I knew she was going to be fine. I was not expecting her to trick Mack though. (Nice job writers making everyone on this show crazy.)

Edited April 7, 2018 by kitlee625

[TVSpectator]

18 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

And, we continue to have everyone but Daisy be wary of Fitz. I see she's even softened up a bit with Fitz from the last episode, calling him "sick". Yep, they're already handwaving his actions. This is why shows like this can't pull moves if they're going to backtrack. Mack was, at least, smart to keep Fitz in his prison. 

Thanks, show, for getting me very pissed at Simmons. She's getting one of her, Fitz, or Yo-Yo killed. I was super irritated by her "cannot be killed" mantra. Also, Yo-Yo can go away as well. They're all losing it. Congrats, show. Now it's not just Fitz that I'm hating. I'm starting to understand how Deke is related to Fitzsimmons...at least this season's Fitzsimmons. 

 

This is how I felt about last season. I have gone beyond being angry at this show, IMO. As with the show backtracking again, yeah they always have done it, IMO. I wish that wasn't the case but it's the case with this show and I would predict Yo-Yo being the one that gets killed since she now has the ability to predict the future, and people who foresee the future are always on the chopping block for this show, she is pretty much the one to get killed. Also, I was right that they won't kill off Simmons (again, the show is predictable in a lot of ways, IMO). 

 

Also, IMO, Deke is a waste of a character. 

Edited April 7, 2018 by TVSpectator

[UNOSEZ]

That was cool blooded by jemma and yo yo… Using someone’s love for you to trick and disobey them.. Ouch… Fallout from that has to follow… But the highlight was def Rains.. More than anyone… Even more than tripp… she is the character I’ve always wanted them to find a way to bring back

 

I don't remember disliking to the core a character more than ruby... Except maybe deke... like I don't get why the Von Strucker kid is all caped up for her... Is she secreting a pheromone and I just missed that scene??.. I don't get what the appeal is

[kitlee625]

25 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

Also, IMO, Deke is a waste of a character. 

 

I used to think Deke was interesting, but he's basically pointless now that he's relegated to talking about how much he loves his Nana and Bobo.

Edited April 7, 2018 by kitlee625

[UNOSEZ]

Like fitz said... Why couldn't it have been flint..  I liked flint. 

[Froippi]

maybe its me but i'm starting to wonder if that future happen in the first place is because the team was fractured a long shot but it is something to consider 

[MisterGlass]

I enjoyed the buddy escape comedy of Coulson and Talbot.  Nice call back to Dr. Horrible's Sing-a-Long blog with Coulson name checking the Evil League of Evil.  The beginning/renewal of the relationship between Robin and May was interesting to see.  I was really surprised to see Ruth Negga again.  I guess we're going to get the missing history of the gravitonium.  A flashback feels like a relief after some of the somberness there's been this season.

I thought Daisy was fine as a leader in this episode.  She was neither a hard ass nor indecisive. 

Simmons is starting to annoy me, which is not something I would typically say.  If I'm doing the math write, there was a 4% chance that she would get all three of the water glasses.  That is not a percentage that equals invincible.  At least Yo-Yo acknowledged that death could be part of changing the timeline.

[Lantern7]

Fun episode. Jemma and Elena are cold-blooded. "I don't think I'm gonna die, so I'm gonna drink three glasses of liquid, and I won't down the poison!!" It's a situation where Mack might not be able to forgive them for the deception. Also, I think that stunt took years off Fitz's life. If he's "guaranteed" to survive, you think he might try and give himself a vasectomy without anesthesia for the purpose for negate Deke's existence?

Creel as a good guy . . . why not? Great that we have a brute with no sense of humor teamed with the deadpan snarker (Coulson really misses the Cap'n Crunch) and the guy who was probably unhinged before he got broken. Now I'm hoping Talbot lives. And maybe gets squeezed into the MCU proper. If Coulson dies, Everett Ross is basically Phil 2.0.

Still can't believe Ruth Negga was nominated for an Oscar. Not a dis . . . only roles I know her from are Raina and Tulip O'Hare. I'm surprised she's back, even in a flashback. "You guys need Raina? Do I get to spend countless hours in makeup to look like a damn porcupine??"

[Lobsel Vith]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

And, we continue to have everyone but Daisy be wary of Fitz. I see she's even softened up a bit with Fitz from the last episode, calling him "sick". Yep, they're already handwaving his actions. This is why shows like this can't pull moves if they're going to backtrack. Mack was, at least, smart to keep Fitz in his prison. 

I'm glad about Mack being allowed to be wary of Fitz, particularly after the previous episode (so I suppose he might've simply said that to Simmons because he was worried about Yo-yo, and now he's allowed to be a bit more forthright).

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

That end card, though. Ian Quinn AND Raina?! I'm pretty sure it's a flashback scene...but a newly filmed flashback scene. Good on them for getting Ruth Negga back, if it was newly filmed! If not, then I guess it was some lost footage from season 1. 

Ruth Negga did a phenomenal job. She did more with a brief scene than all of the antagonists this season have done with so much more screentime and content.

[TVSpectator]

37 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

Still can't believe Ruth Negga was nominated for an Oscar. Not a dis . . . only roles I know her from are Raina and Tulip O'Hare. I'm surprised she's back, even in a flashback. "You guys need Raina? Do I get to spend countless hours in makeup to look like a damn porcupine??"

 

She got nominated for an Academy Award (and also nominated for several other awards) for her role in Loving:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt4669986/

Edited April 7, 2018 by TVSpectator

[Lobsel Vith]

1 minute ago, Lantern7 said:

Creel as a good guy . . . why not? Great that we have a brute with no sense of humor teamed with the deadpan snarker (Coulson really misses the Cap'n Crunch) and the guy who was probably unhinged before he got broken. Now I'm hoping Talbot lives. And maybe gets squeezed into the MCU proper. If Coulson dies, Everett Ross is basically Phil 2.0.

Talbot has been fun, and his relationship with Creel is a nice callback to their relationship in season three (since Talbot is the one who gave Creel a chance after he was de-programmed, and trusted him to save his son's life).

1 minute ago, Lantern7 said:

Still can't believe Ruth Negga was nominated for an Oscar. Not a dis . . . only roles I know her from are Raina and Tulip O'Hare. I'm surprised she's back, even in a flashback. "You guys need Raina? Do I get to spend countless hours in makeup to look like a damn porcupine??"

Yeah, Ruth Negga was wasted quite a bit in the last half of season two. Considering her role on Preacher I think she would've been willing to do a more long-term role on the show if they had been willing to give her meaningful material (letting Ward die and giving her a more better role would've been interesting).

[VCRTracking]

Raina! Glad they got Ruth Negga back. Obviously the end tag was before she got turned into a psychic porcupine. So that's what happened to Quinn. The Gravitonium now absorbed him.

I kind of like hardass leader Daisy Johnson.

Yoyo's new arms look cool AF.

Fitz, we ALL want Flint as a grandson!

Damn, I thought Fitz was crazy but Jemma is crazy in an even different way with this whole "I'm invincible now! Thing.

Oop. I don't have need to have Robin's power  to figure it how Deke said about Daisy still "mad about the whole selling her into slavery thing." went over in here...

I admit Hale looks better with her hair down.

Coulson, Creel and Talbot teaming up was not something I thought I wanted but wow.

May saying she'd be lost without Coulson. Awwwww.

I was very relieved when Robin said "Come sit with me Mommy." she did mean her actual mom and not May because that would have been AWKWARD.

Edited April 7, 2018 by VCRTracking

[Froippi]

Is it possible that Jemma and YoYo should be locked up hard to believe I be thinking that and Mack got played bad this episode 

[Froippi]

That end scene I believe is a deleted scene from Season 1 they just put 4 years ago on it

[thuganomics85]

Some things in live will always be the same.  Water is wet.  The sun rises in the east and sets in the west.  And for Agents of SHIELD, its any time Fitz goes off the reservation and does something insane, Simmons is right there beside him, managing to even freak him out.  These two are truly soulmates!  Basically, Simmons truly seems to buy into the idea that she and Fitz can not die, so they've have now recruit fellow "I'm invincible!" Yo-Yo and her badass robotic arms into tricking poor Mack, and now fleeing the base, getting ready to go off on their own adventures, since they have no faith in Daisy anymore.  This is so ending badly, right?  At least one of them is totally going to get offed in order to blow up the whole invincibility angle.  Oh, you three!

So, at first, Daisy's grand plan to get assistance from Robin almost blows up in her face since the girl is even more closed off than normal, but thankfully Melinda was along for the ride, so they now have an idea on how to get to Coulson.  But like with most things on this show, I have a feeling this will equally end up causing problems down the road.

Coulson teaming up with Gravitonium Creel and Half-crazed Talbot was something I never knew I wanted until now.  Sucks that Creel got recaptured, but I'm so looking forward to Coulson and Talbot together in the wilderness!

It is probably only a matter of time before Ruby goes full psycho on Hale.

I hope Fitz never, ever warms up to Deke.  His distain over him being his grandson never fails to crack me up.

Was not expecting that final scene!  I suspect it was like a cut one from an earlier season, but it was still fun seeing Raina/Ruth Negga again.

Edited April 7, 2018 by thuganomics85

[SnoGirl]

Wow. So they went there, not really a team but a fractured team.

Some parts of the episode seemed lifted right from this forum. Deke talking about selling Daisy into slavery-check. Flint being a FitzSimmons and not Deke-check. 

I liked good-guy Carl. I hope he survives so he can keep being Talbot’s body guard. And speaking of Talbot, man is he messed up. I hope he gets home again to see his wife and son. “Talbot, I need you to use your inside voice” “THIS IS MY INSIDE VOICE.” I died, just died.

Simmons is prescribing to Fitz’s theory that time cannot be changed with a dash of YoYo’s future. I really thought the cups would be filled with all water, to trick Mack. I did not see the fourth cup being filled with acid. She would have been dead if she drank that! And then the gun going off....my jaw might have been on the ground after that.

Fitz might be split but no one can ever question his love and loyalty to Simmons. Damn, it was like Simmons jumping out of the Plane all over again. I loved that he immediately hugged her. 

Loved that they finally addressed Robin and her Mother. But where is Hunter? I wish we knew what time they returned too...

[Lady Calypso]

14 minutes ago, SnoGirl said:

Loved that they finally addressed Robin and her Mother. But where is Hunter? I wish we knew what time they returned too...

Well, we know it was after Hunter and Fitz found Robin/Polly to hide them, because Polly said that she was glad they all made it back. Unfortunately, we're supposed to believe that Hunter just disappeared again. 

15 minutes ago, SnoGirl said:

Wow. So they went there, not really a team but a fractured team.

Well, I will say this show is doing a better job at fracturing a previously well oiled team than the show Arrow is doing. 

Daisy was fine as a leader. She wasn't too soft, she wasn't a total hardass (no, Deke, you deserve the hatred from Daisy and Fitz also deserves to be locked up), and she wasn't indecisive. Her sole goal was to find Coulson, and that's what she did. She felt bad for finding Robin, she talked to Robin, and she kept the mission focused. I do understand why she doesn't want to be leader, and she really is needed on the field, so becoming the Director full-time is probably not the best idea for her. She can lead the field team while someone else runs things back at base. 

So, with Mack locked up, how pissed is he really going to be at Simmons and Elena? I hope he's super pissed, because they used him, made him think that Simmons was dying, tricked him into letting Fitz out, and then his own girlfriend used her power against him. There has to be a divide with Fitz/Simmons/Elena vs Mack/May/Daisy, right? Even though May's the more questionable choice here, as she keeps defending Fitz, and then Deke's only there as a plot device. 

[kitlee625]

With Simmons literally tempting fate in this episode, I really feel like someone has got to die to prove this "invincible" theory wrong. My money is on Elena now, because the writers really are doubling down on FitzSimmons and their relationship.

[Lady Calypso]

9 minutes ago, kitlee625 said:

With Simmons literally tempting fate in this episode, I really feel like someone has got to die to prove this "invincible" theory wrong. My money is on Elena now, because the writers really are doubling down on FitzSimmons and their relationship.

I'm betting on Fitz, for the sole reason that they have another Fitz on standby if they need to defreeze him. How that works if the time loop is broken? Well, our team came BACK from the future and we know they're likely not disappearing (if they are, then we go back in time to the diner scene, before they were abducted), so them bringing back cryogenic Fitz would be one way to kill off one of The Invincibles, "cure" Fitz from his broken brained self, and tada! 

Also, I think we're leading up to Deke disappearing at some point (literally). 

[ohjoy]

Are psychotic breaks contagious? ‘Cause wow, Simmons, that was incredibly cold. When she went down and Mack let Fitz out I was thinking Fitz would find a way to save her and that would prove the “invincibility”, but faking it to trick and trap Mack was just low.

I’m also on the train that thinks this will definitely get one of three “invincible” ones killed. Yo-yo’s the most likely candidate, but I also think there’s good chance it’s Fitz.

[MissLucas]

I'm so confused - why do the people in this show behave as if they've never been exposed to any theory about time-travel? 

Edited April 7, 2018 by MissLucas

[Chaos Theory]

One of the long running themes of the show is that threats from the inside are often more dangerous then threats from the outside.   When the group is not acting like a team and going off in different directions they are often more of a threat to each other and maybe even the world then a help.  

I thought Daisy was actually a pretty good leader.  Maybe not Coulson good but she wasn't exactly awful either.

Fitz's distain for Deke was hilarious but they are ALOT alike.  They both have similar world views.  

The Coulson stuff was hilarious.  

Edited April 7, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[blueray]

9 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

I was very relieved when Robin said "Come sit with me Mommy." she did mean her actual mom and not May because that would have been AWKWARD.

 

Me too. I felt bad for her mother when she called May mom. It was nice at the end that she still knew who her real mother was and wanted to be comforted by her.

I didn't find Daisy as being a bad leader at all actually. I didn't really get the whole "hard-ass" comment, as she seemed like her normal self. It was almost as if they were trying to tell us how to see her, as appose to showing it.

I was shocked by what Simmon's and YoYo did. I knew she was going to pull of the stunt, however it was still shocking when she faked it only to get Fitz out of the cell. Then Yoyo locked Mack in there, poor Mack. And it was nice to see how devastated Ftiz was when he thought something happened to Jemma. As this is our Fitz and I hope to only see him.

 

I loved the comedy stuff with Coulson, Tabott and Creel. I'm glad Coulson and Tabott escaped. I would assume that they are still on earth but who knows.

Edited April 7, 2018 by blueray

[tennisgurl]

Fitz and Simmons really are soulmates, they go off the rails at the exact same time! That was seriously cold of Simmons and Elena, to the point that it seemed out of character. I mean, at least I am pretty sure Fitz is still kind of not in his right mind, and is being affected by brain damage and some kind of psychotic break (not excusing his behavior, but I do think that its a part of it), whats their excuse? Beyond "the future is set" or whatever? Have they never seen Back to the Future? Things can change! Everyone needs some serious team building ASAP. They are doing more damage to each other now than any of the villains. 

I enjoyed the Coulson, Talbott, and Creel stuff. Creel being a good guy (maybe) is something I can do alright with. He is interesting enough that I want to see more of him and see him develop a bit. Talbot has just had a crappy time of it lately, huh? Even by this shows standards. Maybe things will look up now? 

Ruth Negga! Didn't expect to see her! I thought she ended up being underused, so I would be super happy to have her back for a bit. She really is an excellent actress, especially when she gets juicy material to work with. 

I thought Daisy was a fine leader. Granted, she needs to work on the team working more as a group (who are all five seconds from killing each other) but still, shes doing ok under the circumstances. 

I wish Flint had been the grandson too, Fitz. 

[TVSpectator]

1 hour ago, MissLucas said:

I'm so confused - why do the people in this show behave as if they've never been exposed to any theory about time-travel? 

I feel like the showrunners have never really seen a time travel show and/or refuse to change the future- for some reason- and missed the entire point of what time travel shows try to do (and also the point of their beloved Terminator movies), IMO. Although, once they change the future won't that render the entire Lighthouse storyline as pointless because none of those characters will exist because their parents/grandparents will all have a different life and probably will never meet each other, etc...? Also, with the way Simmons keep on saying that she will be safe- this is so a Chekhov's Gun moment that has to go off for her.  Which makes me think that it has to be Simmons to die but I don't think that the showrunners will allow it (even though they are literally doing everything they can to show she will die). I feel like Yo-Yo is the best one to die because again, people who can foresee the future always die on this show (they had literally two other characters with similar abilities that ended up dead) and that even old woman Robin ended dead living in the Lighthouse. 

 

7 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Some things in live will always be the same.  Water is wet.  The sun rises in the east and sets in the west.  And for Agents of SHIELD, its any time Fitz goes off the reservation and does something insane, Simmons is right there beside him, managing to even freak him out.  These two are truly soulmates!  Basically, Simmons truly seems to buy into the idea that she and Fitz can not die, so they've have now recruit fellow "I'm invincible!" Yo-Yo and her badass robotic arms into tricking poor Mack, and now fleeing the base, getting ready to go off on their own adventures, since they have no faith in Daisy anymore.  This is so ending badly, right?  At least one of them is totally going to get offed in order to blow up the whole invincibility angle.  Oh, you three!

4

I really can't remember when those two teaming up to do something crazy like this before Season 4. 

Quote

Was not expecting that final scene!  I suspect it was like a cut one from an earlier season, but it was still fun seeing Raina/Ruth Negga again

It's great that they brought Raina back but wasn't that just a deleted scene from Season 1? Wouldn't that just mean that they are (again) just wasting an actress that literally was nominated for a Golden Globe once she left the show?

[shrewd.buddha]

This is one of those episodes that seems fine on the surface, but becomes irritating once you think about what they are trying to build on. 

So, Daisy has been leader for a day or two .. and already a third of the team has mutinied. Great. These AoS people are really like a group of pirates : there is no sanctioned chain of authority (they are not a real government group with leaders, legitimacy, salaries, appointed positions, etc.). Any of them could leave, at any time, if they wanted. 
Where do the red-shirt agents keep popping up from? Now that Fitz has created an autopilot, there is really no reason to have any extra agents appear. 

4 hours ago, SnoGirl said:

Deke talking about selling Daisy into slavery-check.

I cringed when Deke said that. They should have let that whole concept go. 
First : Don't try to create outrage with Daisy being a 'slave' for a few days or a week. Was she raped? Was she hobbled? Was her nose or ears cut off to mark her as property? Did she bear her owner's children only to watch them be sold off? (I am sort of referring to the little I have heard about classic Roman slavery.) It is as if the writers want to get the indignation without any of the reality. 
Second: Is Deke a StarLord wannabe mercenary  or a  lovable, time-lost doofus? Some consistency would be nice.
It was only a matter of time before he tried to compare his survival-minded ruthlessness to Fitz's. And I'm sure Daisy will at some point have something to say about her treated from the Fitz family line. 

And did Ruby kill Creel at the end? That was the impression I got. Only because they gave Creel a lot more to do and say and gave him an extended fight scene. It felt like a parting gift (to me).  Though why did Creel not stay in metal form as he normally does? Oh, because it would be harder to explain his vulnerability to the metal frisbee? 

This arc is starting to feel stretched out too far - as did most of the other arcs - like one or two episodes too much. Hale and Ruby are the new Kasius and Sinara : they keep going back to them doing something horrible that is only a slight variation of something horrible they did before. After a while it becomes tiresome and you are ready to be done with them. As we will be when the arc concludes ,,, because: comics.

Edited April 7, 2018 by shrewd.buddha

[zscore]

20 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

It's great that they brought Raina back but wasn't that just a deleted scene from Season 1? Wouldn't that just mean that they are (again) just wasting an actress that literally was nominated for a Golden Globe once she left the show?

It was a deleted scene from Season 1 Epi 22.

[TVSpectator]

Just now, zscore said:

It was a deleted scene from Season 1 Epi 22.

Okay, for a moment there I was thinking that they brought Ruth Negga back but then with her nominations would probably be able to ask for more money (I mean she is a good actress and I thought that her character was a bit underused in Season 2 and got pushed aside for Daisy and Jiaying). I wonder if they will get Ruth Negga back or not?

[shrewd.buddha]

3 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I'm so confused - why do the people in this show behave as if they've never been exposed to any theory about time-travel? 

Some simple ways of changing the timeline:

• Fitz and Simmons : Make sure you never have children.
• Yo-Yo : Leave the group and go into hiding (offing yourself seems too extreme, but could be seen as a noble sacrifice). 
• The lighthouse: destroy it completely. 

..and those are just the easy solutions.

Edited April 7, 2018 by shrewd.buddha

[romantic idiot]

Daisy's a terrible leader, she doesn't inspire any faith in her plans whatsoever and she doesn't listen to her subordinates. Plus she puts a child's life at risk because of her tunnel vision. 

Phil - Talbot and Creel should have let him die. They reinforced the timeline again. I wonder if that was a tipping point 

[Lobsel Vith]

8 minutes ago, TVSpectator said:

Okay, for a moment there I was thinking that they brought Ruth Negga back but then with her nominations would probably be able to ask for more money (I mean she is a good actress and I thought that her character was a bit underused in Season 2 and got pushed aside for Daisy and Jiaying). I wonder if they will get Ruth Negga back or not?

She's on Preacher so I think she would've been willing to have a long-term gig on AoS if they simply wrote for her character (instead of, say, giving story to Ward despite his character serving no real purpose after Daisy shot him multiple times in season two). I get giving Daisy story in season two - she's Quake - but I don't get why the show refused to let Ward go even when it was clear that they had no real idea what to do with his character, and just meandered around with silly ways to keep him around because they liked the actor (apparently more than they liked BJ Britt or Blair Underwood).

[Terrafamilia]

If Fitz, Simmons, and Yo-Yo don't believe the future timeline can be changed why are they even bothering? From their perspective no matter what they do or not do the Earth just goes boom anyway.

What hold does Ruby have over Strucker? Must be one of those magical vajayjays.

[Lobsel Vith]

1 minute ago, romantic idiot said:

Daisy's a terrible leader, she doesn't inspire any faith in her plans whatsoever and she doesn't listen to her subordinates. Plus she puts a child's life at risk because of her tunnel vision. 

I don't think Simmons going off the deep end means that Daisy is a terrible leader. And I think it's a bit much to say that she should blindly trust the man who nearly killed most of the team and tortured her. Considering how poorly trusting Ward worked out in season two, I think she had the right idea to pursue a course of action that wouldn't potentially lead to Ward 2.0 being let loose onto the world.

2 minutes ago, romantic idiot said:

Phil - Talbot and Creel should have let him die. They reinforced the timeline again. I wonder if that was a tipping point 

Or perhaps Future Elena's cryptic message was about Fitz (who was referred to as "sick" in this episode, lining up with what Future Elena said about the man the team tried to save) rather than Coulson (who could simply be a red herring at this point because we know he's dying).

[kitlee625]

On 4/7/2018 at 1:38 PM, shrewd.buddha said:

This is one of those episodes that seems fine on the surface, but becomes irritating once you think about what they are trying to build on. 

So, Daisy has been leader for a day or two .. and already a third of the team has mutinied. Great. These AoS people are really like a group of pirates : there is no sanctioned chain of authority (they are not a real government group with leaders, legitimacy, salaries, appointed positions, etc.). Any of them could leave, at any time, if they wanted. 
Where do the red-shirt agents keep popping up from? Now that Fitz has created an autopilot, there is really no reason to have any extra agents appear. 

I cringed when Deke said that. They should have let that whole concept go. 
First : Don't try to create outrage with Daisy being a 'slave' for a few days or a week. Was she raped? Was she hobbled? Was her nose or ears cut off to mark her as property? Did she bear her owner's children only to watch them be sold off? (I am sort of referring to the little I have heard about classic Roman slavery.) It is as if the writers want to get the indignation without any of the reality. 
Second: Is Deke a StarLord wannabe mercenary  or a  lovable, time-lost doofus? Some consistency would be nice.
It was only a matter of time before he tried to compare his survival-minded ruthlessness to Fitz's. And I'm sure Daisy will at some point have something to say about her treated from the Fitz family line. 

And did Ruby kill Creel at the end? That was the impression I got. Only because they gave Creel a lot more to do and say and gave him an extended fight scene. It felt like a parting gift (to me).  Though why did Creel not stay in metal form as he normally does? Oh, because it would be harder to explain his vulnerability to the metal frisbee? 

This arc is starting to feel stretched out too far - as did most of the other arcs - like one or two episodes too much. Hale and Ruby are the new Kasius and Sinara : they keep going back to them doing something horrible that is only a slight variation of something horrible they did before. After a while it becomes tiresome and you are ready to be done with them. As we will be when the arc concludes ,,, because: comics.

 

Definitely agree with all of this. The episode was fun, if a little slow. It's really a filler episode, designed to set the pieces in motion. Except it doesn't really work. 

 

Daisy as a leader didn't do anything that bad (or worse than Coulson would do), but she is a poor leader because she's completely ineffectual. She doesn't want to be the leader, and she doesn't inspire either trust or loyalty from her agents. Obviously this isn't all her fault -- Simmons in particular went completely rogue this episode -- but it's in sharp contrast to Coulson. Once again, we are told that his super special power is bringing people together, whereas Daisy's leadership has the team completely fractured. Also, if things were so contentious on the base, why did she leave with so many people plotting against her? May could have picked up Robin and Polly and brought them back to the base for interrogation. Also, May wound up being the one to connect with Robin. Daisy just doesn't seem like someone content to be back at headquarters in a leadership position. She wants to be on the front line, doing everything herself.

 

On a related note, just what is the team's goal anyway? Daisy is laser focused on getting Coulson back, but shouldn't they be trying to save the world? And why hasn't Elena told everyone what her future self told her (or maybe I missed that part).

 

I thought Creel was dead, but I'm also not completely sure. Maybe his powers saved him just in time?

 

Overall I'm tired of the setup for this arc and want to get to the payoff. But since we've got like 6 more episodes left, I have a feeling the story will be treading water until the finale.

Edited April 9, 2018 by kitlee625
fixed a typo

[Froippi]

So the team has no medical and no engineering now how is that going to work out 

[Lobsel Vith]

23 minutes ago, Froippi said:

So the team has no medical and no engineering now how is that going to work out 

I wonder why they never had a real medical person in the first place (since Simmons originally didn't have that role, and sort of fell into it in season two, almost as if the writers simply forgot she wasn't actually a medical doctor like Lincoln was).

[tessaray]

2 hours ago, kitlee625 said:

Overall I'm tired of the setup for this arc and want to get to the payoff. But since we've got like 6 more episodes left, I have a feeling the story will be treading water until the finale.

I wonder if this inept pacing is the result of AoS getting extra episodes after the Inhumans series tanked?   

[blueray]

Wait it got extra episodes? I thought they just started after inhumans run ended.

[kitlee625]

Just now, tessaray said:

I wonder if this inept pacing is the result of AoS getting extra episodes after the Inhumans series tanked?   

I have another theory actually, which is that Hale and Ruby are not the true villains of the season. Or rather, they're not the final villains of the season. It's possible that Hale releases Graviton, and the last several episodes deal with the team's attempts to stop him from destroying the world.

[tessaray]

10 minutes ago, blueray said:

Wait it got extra episodes? I thought they just started after inhumans run ended.

I can't find a reference online to it now so it might have been just talk that it would have a truncated season if Inhumans did well. 

In that case, the pacing looks even worse.

[Lobsel Vith]

31 minutes ago, tessaray said:

I wonder if this inept pacing is the result of AoS getting extra episodes after the Inhumans series tanked?   

They have the same number of episodes as last season, so I don't think the number of episodes is the issue. I suspect the pacing issues are due to the lower budget this season, so things are being stretched out somewhat. Hence the two arcs this season instead of the three arcs that we received last season (which would also explain reusing the cabin shot from season two for this episode).

[Froippi]

1 hour ago, Lobsel Vith said:

I wonder why they never had a real medical person in the first place (since Simmons originally didn't have that role, and sort of fell into it in season two, almost as if the writers simply forgot she wasn't actually a medical doctor like Lincoln was).

Ok even without Simmons medical Fitz is the only engineer though Mac is a mechanic 

[Minneapple]

47 minutes ago, tessaray said:

I can't find a reference online to it now so it might have been just talk that it would have a truncated season if Inhumans did well. 

In that case, the pacing looks even worse.

SHIELD was renewed for a full 22-episode season last May. It was designated as a midseason replacement for the Inhumans show, which had a shorter episode order (only 8 or 10 episodes IIRC).

[TVSpectator]

1 hour ago, tessaray said:

I wonder if this inept pacing is the result of AoS getting extra episodes after the Inhumans series tanked?   

They were given 22 episodes by ABC (after Disney forced a renewal) and I don't think they were given extra episodes at all. 

1 hour ago, blueray said:

Wait it got extra episodes? I thought they just started after inhumans run ended.

No it didn't. 

[tessaray]

Yeah, I realized my error in a later post. 

[mary2013]

Anyone else find it strange that Deke said the exact same thing, word for word, to Fitz and Simmons about Daisy being a hard ass? As if he's trying to undermine Daisy?

 

And he mentioned again about playing the long game. I think he's up to something. I just don't know if he's trying to change the future, or keep it as is or he might not exist. 

[Froippi]

20 minutes ago, mary2013 said:

Anyone else find it strange that Deke said the exact same thing, word for word, to Fitz and Simmons about Daisy being a hard ass? As if he's trying to undermine Daisy?

 

And he mentioned again about playing the long game. I think he's up to something. I just don't know if he's trying to change the future, or keep it as is or he might not exist. 

No not strange nothing strange to me

[SnoGirl]

9 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Well, we know it was after Hunter and Fitz found Robin/Polly to hide them, because Polly said that she was glad they all made it back. Unfortunately, we're supposed to believe that Hunter just disappeared again. 

I wonder if they just dont have the money for the actor Nick Blood bc there is no way Hunter would willingly sit this out. Especially since he knew Fitz was tracking down the rest of the Agents, if Daisy just appeared Hunter would be gearing up to help. He is practically as loyal as Fitz is to those he loves. Its a real bummer he cant be involved. 

27 minutes ago, mary2013 said:

Anyone else find it strange that Deke said the exact same thing, word for word, to Fitz and Simmons about Daisy being a hard ass? As if he's trying to undermine Daisy?

 

And he mentioned again about playing the long game. I think he's up to something. I just don't know if he's trying to change the future, or keep it as is or he might not exist. 

I think Deke is playing the long game, of making friends and allies. He knows he’s not well liked. Everyone made it super clear in space what they think of him. I think he’s grasping at straws, trying to make those human connections. He had (some) power and influence in space, and now he has next to none.

He’s also the grandson of FitzSimmons, and I’m sure he’s gathered how liked they were and how much his mother spoke of them. I think he’s trying to gain some ground while learning about his grandparents.  

Edited April 7, 2018 by SnoGirl