S09.E12: Tell All - Part 2

[UsernameFatigue]

20 hours ago, Yeah No said:

Logan Brown will be 24 in May.  When I was his age I was already married 3 years and still am after almost 40 years.  I know it's become a trend for young people to marry older in recent years but for most of human history except for the past decade or so getting married in one's early to mid 20s (or younger) was the norm.  I know it's fashionable now to consider adults in their 20s to be no more than adolescents, but that's not technically the case in any way, shape or form.  It also depends on how they were brought up and the culture they were raised in.  The Brown family has definitely brought up its children to be ready for independence at a younger age than is now the average.  In my opinion they are the healthy ones, not the other way around.  Just because delaying adulthood has become the fashion doesn't mean it's good for anyone.  Just my opinion!

I don't think for a minute that the Brown family has brought up its children to be ready for independence at a younger age than average. I think the kids have chosen to leave when they have finished high school because they have been brought up in a huge extended family where they have been expected to help raise their younger siblings and half siblings (certainly Logan was), and have seen the unhappy lives their respective mothers have had, sharing a narcissistic husband. They have gotten out as soon as they could. 

Logan is not yet married, but Maddy and Mykelti both married at 21. The average age of marriage these days for a male is 29, and a female 27. So yes, they are marrying sooner than usual. Forty years ago getting married right out of high school, or in your early 20s was more normal that not. And even forty years ago, it wasn't uncommon to have children early, and the mother to say home to raise them.  Even in 1990, the average age of marriage for a male was 26 and female 23. I don't think the current average age of marriage has anything to do with delayed adolescence, (at least not with my relatives that age, or friends' kids or grand kids).  They are focused on their education, (with both males and females having careers requiring often several years of higher education) and then establishing themselves in their chosen fields before making that commitment. I don't think that is a bad thing, at all.

OTOH, do we even know what the Brown kids that have graduated from high school are doing? A couple are in the army (or some branch of).  I think Logan is still in college, but not sure what he is taking or how close he is to finishing.  Maddie seemed to drop in and out of higher education, and now with a baby seems unlikely she will return anytime soon.  Mykelti I think has dropped out to work in the pawn shop. Meriah I think is in college but again not sure what she is doing there. Many seem to treat it as a way to put in time until they fall in love and get married. Do they think the TLC gravy train is going to support their generation, and the spawn they produce?

But regardless, I think their leaving the nest when they did had more to do with escaping, than good parenting. 

Edited April 4, 2018 by UsernameFatigue

[Gothish520]

11 hours ago, Kellyee said:

On multiple occasions, it has come up that Kody favors his sons over his daughters, and that he spends more time with Janelle's kids than he ever does with Christine's kids. On the episode where Maddy leaves for college, she says it quite clearly that she and Kody don't have a close relationship. Kody only favors her now because he is so ridiculously in love with her husband. 

I honestly do not find that unusual at all. Growing up, my father spent recreational time with my brother playing baseball and watching sports, and my sisters and I spent time with my mother going shopping and playing card games and Scrabble. We did family stuff too, of course,  but my mom rarely did activities with just my brother and my father rarely did stuff with just the girls.

[KnoxForPres]

A few thoughts I had.

Why does Christine consider herself a comedian?  And it made me sad Janelle heartily laughed at her lame hilarities as I count on her to be the person that I'd make eye contact with across the room to diss with in solidarity. 

Look I've fluctuated in weight as most women have. The one thing I've never done is sported a mustard yellow blazer at my highest weight (or lowest for that matter). What the ever loving F Robyn?  

[Natalie68]

On 4/2/2018 at 4:46 AM, bichonblitz said:

So why hasn't feminist Janelle worked in years? She just hangs around the house and eats now. Some role model.

Kody looked like he wanted to strangle the host when she kept on asking why he and Meri don't go on a "weekend getaway". 

Looking at all that past footage is shocking to see what has happened to Robin and Meri. They are both aging rapidly. Meri was actually cute at one time and Robin has gone completely down hill. She's not even 40 yet. Was it having 2 more babies that has destroyed her looks or the strain of having to live in that toxic family environment that she claims to love and cherish so much?

WHAT????  Robyn has always reminded me of that Seinfeld ep where he was dating the gal who could look super cute or super homely.  She has an unfortunate facial structure where she will look like one of those old shrunken apple faces where as many have said, the nose hits the chin.  I think the stress of the lifestyle has added years to her face.  Christine looks the best of all of them.  

[Natalie68]

On 4/2/2018 at 10:59 AM, Gothish520 said:

I loathe Judge Judy. I realize it's all made-up drama for the cameras, but I always found her to be an insulting, belittling, dimissive, condescending asswipe. 

I absolutely love Judge Judy.  I can't speak for all the cases but I may have mentioned I run a concert venue and boy was I shocked one day.  I saw the concert coordinators from a show that had been IN MY BUILDING being litigated.  It was a show run by inexperienced assholes (who had lied about their experience in running a show) and they ended up suing each other for lost proceeds.  This particular show is always my goto when talking about shows going badly and why we revised our policies on who gets to run shows.  Imagine my shock while sitting down with my snack to catch up on the day's JJ and see the jerks I had worked with months before.  It makes a good story for other students.

I would like someone with big balls and no fucks to give run the tell all's.  If a host isn't up to the challenge, I think Gwyn, of snarky frisbee's, would be perfect.

[xwordfanatik]

I love four of Christine's kiddos the best right now.  Paedon, for refusing to go along with that march in SLC, Ysabel, for her gutsiness in fighting scoliosis (and I think it was awful of her parents to use her for a storyline,) Gwyn, for her snarkiness and wit, and Truely, just because she's the youngest in that group, and was largely ignored, since dear Doofus was so busy falling down and pissing his pants because of his "courtship" with dear Robyn, not to mention when she (Truely) nearly died from kidney failure.  

Aspyn has my best wishes, that her betrothed will not ever want to take other "wives," and Mykelti?  Good luck with FT, but her bitchiness was so evident at her wedding, I don't know what else to say about that one.

@Natalie68, I agree, big balls and no fucks to give, are what's needed at next (the last?) season's tell-all.  

[Meowwww]

On 4/4/2018 at 10:39 AM, Pachengala said:

YES. One of the most enraging things about this completely enraging man-child is his horrible, inequitable, capricious parenting. His kids are so desperate for his attention that their acting-out and attention-seeking behavior is over the top. I had a dad who wasn’t super interested in us, and I recognize what it looks like to try desperately to win a parent’s attention. Kody is interested in his kids the same way he’s interested in his wives: how good can they make him look? How manly can they make him feel? How little can he give to ensure his own needs are being met? He is emphatically NOT a good parent. 

The kids are going to experience the repercussions of his narcissism and benign neglect for the rest of their lives; the girls have already started, marrying the first men they meet who pay them any attention. It’ll only get worse for the Ysabels and Truelys of the group, who not only got close to no fatherly attention, but also suffered their father’s disdain for their mother. 

I cannot imagine looking at Kody Brown and his selfish, gaping neediness and thinking this is an example of a good father. 

Just admiring all your 5 dollar words here.  I have a Journalism degree.  Well done!!!

[Pachengala]

Ha, thanks @Meowwww! My husbo always says, ‘Again, in English, please.’

[NotinKansasanymore]

I found it amusing, that when the Brown adults were asked if they still want their children to practice polygamy, how much they backtracked their previous answers. When they showed the flashback clip, all of the parents wanted them to, and even Christine said, if they don't you can't help but wonder why? and what did we do wrong?

What the heck was up with Robin's response, that more would have gone into polygamy if they still lived in Utah. Yep, Robin, if they still lived in a repressive culture, where it was shoved down their throats I'm sure they would. Just like Mariah stated, that if they would have stayed in that culture in Utah, she would probably have never come out of the closet.

So if you want your children to go into polygamy, don't let them become enlightened, and keep them in a restrictive religious culture where polygamy is the only thing that is taught.

I think it is very telling, that Maddie, Mykelti, Aspyn, Logan, and Mariah, the oldest five, have no interest in it. They saw firsthand, the fighting and tension between the sister wives. The unhappy and toxic marriages, that the adults even admit had been going on for ten years.

The real question is why the hell would any of those kids chose polygamy, with the example their family has shown?

[NotinKansasanymore]

Just to go back a little bit to the whole catfishing scandal, and I always start with that the catfisher, is a known liar, who continues to lie, but I do believe their are kernels of truth in her story regarding the Brown family. A lot of the things she posted about them, she posted back in 2015, about how Meri told Kody she didn't want him in her life, that she told him to stop coming around, etc.  As the show continues to go on, we get pieces out of Meri and Kody, and it starts to match up to what she posted way back in 2015 which leads me to believe SOME of it.

That being said, one of the things she claimed way back in 2015, was that things got really nasty between Meri and Kody, after Meri had told him that she no longer wanted him in her life, and asked him to stop coming around the house. Allegedly a lot of mean things were said between the two, and Meri gave Kody back her wedding ring, which Kody melted down, and used in a piece of jewelry for one of his children with Robyn.

Since I have yet to see Meri wear her ring, I kind of think, that this really did happen, and that Kody melted her ring. But my point is that I think that when things get that bad, and words are exchanged, it is really really hard to come back from that.

I can see why Meri and Kody are struggling, cause I think they really laid into each other, and said and did things, that are hard to get over. I mean, there was a point, with this catfishing thing, that they seemed to really despise the other.

It just feels like now that Meri is like well my plan A of leaving you didn't work out, so here I am, I'm staying, and Kody is just like, I'm already in the mind space of letting you go, and being over you.  If you are now working after three years, and still have not gotten to the place where you can at least be "friends," it's time to go. If your feelings for someone are more negative than positive, that's just not healthy for anyone in the family to force the other wives and children to be exposed to tension filled family events. It's selfish of the both of them to expose the other children to their toxicity.

[Gothish520]

3 hours ago, Pachengala said:

Ha, thanks @Meowwww! My husbo always says, ‘Again, in English, please.’

Lol, a lexicon of impressive words is one of the things Mr. Gothish and I have in common. We get a kick when someone appears stumped (though we don't do it on purpose, honest!). We have even stumped each other on occasion, and those are some sweet bragging rights. :D

[Kohola3]

1 hour ago, Gothish520 said:

Lol, a lexicon of impressive words is one of the things Mr. Gothish and I have in common.

Perhaps you can tutor Kootie since he routinely selects the incorrect words in his ramblings.

[xwordfanatik]

1 hour ago, Kohola3 said:

Perhaps you can tutor Kootie since he routinely selects the incorrect words in his ramblings.

How did you come up with Kootie for Mr. Polygamyiswonderful?  It fits him perfectly.

[Kohola3]

Just now, xwordfanatik said:

How did you come up with Kootie for Mr. Polygamyiswonderful?  It fits him perfectly.

It does, doesn't it?  And full disclosure, I read it somewhere else.  But too good not to use.

[VedaPierce]

On April 1, 2018 at 10:24 PM, For Cereals said:

Ok eww no one was asking if you were platonic.  If you have to remind yourself that you want to be in your marriage, that’s a bad sign.  It’s over...just get a divorce.  Oh wait, you already did.

OT but I just saw that injury attorney commercial and now it’s just the Barnes firm.  What happened to Celino?  I have the old jingle stuck in my head.  I think I’d rather watch a tell all about that.

Celino & Barnes, injury attorney? Actually had an ugly divorce where, I kid you not, they had a knock-down drag-out over that torturous jingle! It was about a year ago, and made the news.

Edited April 7, 2018 by VedaPierce

[VedaPierce]

On April 1, 2018 at 10:37 PM, Meowwww said:

I have never been a Mariah fan.  But now she is so happy and so herself, I like her. 

The world loves a happy girl. Take note, Meri, you miserable sow. 

[Sandy W]

11 minutes ago, VedaPierce said:

The world loves a happy girl. Take note, Meri, you miserable sow. 

Meri revels in misery.  Even her romance with the catfish was peppered with pleading and apologies, why continue with an online romance if it wasn't gratifying, unless she has masochistic tendencies.

[Natalie68]

On 4/5/2018 at 2:59 PM, xwordfanatik said:

I love four of Christine's kiddos the best right now.  Paedon, for refusing to go along with that march in SLC, Ysabel, for her gutsiness in fighting scoliosis (and I think it was awful of her parents to use her for a storyline,) Gwyn, for her snarkiness and wit, and Truely, just because she's the youngest in that group, and was largely ignored, since dear Doofus was so busy falling down and pissing his pants because of his "courtship" with dear Robyn, not to mention when she (Truely) nearly died from kidney failure.  

Aspyn has my best wishes, that her betrothed will not ever want to take other "wives," and Mykelti?  Good luck with FT, but her bitchiness was so evident at her wedding, I don't know what else to say about that one.

@Natalie68, I agree, big balls and no fucks to give, are what's needed at next (the last?) season's tell-all.  

I really like Truely.  I think she is cute and has Kody's number.  I mean no disrespect when I say this but she is always bopping around and SOOOO reminds me of those white dancing poodles.  

[Kohola3]

19 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

I mean no disrespect when I say this but she is always bopping around and SOOOO reminds me of those white dancing poodles.  

She's probably celebrating that fact that her idiot parents didn't kill her off.

[Pickleinthemiddle]

On 4/6/2018 at 1:58 PM, NotinKansasanymore said:

I found it amusing, that when the Brown adults were asked if they still want their children to practice polygamy, how much they backtracked their previous answers. When they showed the flashback clip, all of the parents wanted them to, and even Christine said, if they don't you can't help but wonder why? and what did we do wrong?

What the heck was up with Robin's response, that more would have gone into polygamy if they still lived in Utah. Yep, Robin, if they still lived in a repressive culture, where it was shoved down their throats I'm sure they would. Just like Mariah stated, that if they would have stayed in that culture in Utah, she would probably have never come out of the closet.

So if you want your children to go into polygamy, don't let them become enlightened, and keep them in a restrictive religious culture where polygamy is the only thing that is taught.

I think it is very telling, that Maddie, Mykelti, Aspyn, Logan, and Mariah, the oldest five, have no interest in it. They saw firsthand, the fighting and tension between the sister wives. The unhappy and toxic marriages, that the adults even admit had been going on for ten years.

The real question is why the hell would any of those kids chose polygamy, with the example their family has shown?

I think the best think that happened is them moving to Las Vegas.  I still think for sure the boys would have left and some of the girls.  I honestly don't see anyone except Robyn's oldest daughter possibly practicing plural marriage.

[VedaPierce]

On April 2, 2018 at 2:44 PM, Onceafan said:

The sad thing is that the Brown's have taken this and twisted it to use as an excuse. In therapy it typically means, if I talk about this, I'm going to be emotionally triggered, and I do not have the coping mechanisms or supports at this time to be able to handle this rationally, therefore we must first focus on building a healthy foundation, so that you can feel safe to discuss things, without falling apart and not being able to pull yourself back up.

When Kody states that he doesn't think it's safe for he and Meri to go away on a Weekend getaway, my opinion is what he is really saying is this.

Listen, I don't like Meri at this time. When we are left alone together, we will fight and lash out at the other. If we are forced to spend time together on a weekend getaway, we are going to fight, and I'm going to throw my hands up, and say, that's it, we need to end this now, let's get that spiritual divorce.

Since they both know that, the only way that can "stay together," is to avoid each other, and really live two separate lives. Trust me, when Kody says he wants this to work, but he doesn't know what tools to use what he is really saying is.....

I know what I have to do is forgive her, and spend time with her to try and build a new relationship, but I'm still so pissed over the catfishing, that I still don't want to spend time with her.

You can't force someone to get over something, and clearly Kody is not over the catfishing.

And as for Meri, she can say she wants to get back with Kody, but by not spending time with the sister wives and other children, it continues to drive a wedge between any hope of she and Kody building a new relationship because she doesn't want that role.

So we have Kody who knows that the next steps are to reconcile, but doesn't do it, because he really doesn't want to.

And you have Meri who knows what her role in the family is suppose to be, but doesn't do it, because she really doesn't want to.

And we have the Tell-Nothing Host, and the Sister Wives giving kudos and praise for them "sticking it out," when in reality they are repeating their past of total avoidance, to tolerate each other living on the same block.

Brilliant. 

[VedaPierce]

On April 3, 2018 at 11:10 AM, Yeah No said:

See, from my POV it looks to me like you're being far too forgiving of polygamy in general when no matter how they try to spin it it's still oppressive and demeaning to women, Meri included.  With that as my filter and starting point, Meri looks a lot different.  YMMV.

Two things can be true at the same time. Polygamy can suck AND Meri can be a consistent, selfish beeyoch.

For all we know, she was like this when she married him. For all we know, she would have been a nasty shrew in a monogamist marriage. 

i can only judge-yes, JUDGE (tee-hee) what I see on the tee vee. We can all make up fantasies all day long about what this one could have been, or that one could have been, but in the end, they're fantasies. No one knows for sure. 

[VedaPierce]

They are all just so full of shit. All the wives say that adding a new wife is initiated by an existing wife, Robyn even says that the existing wife has an 'inspiration' to add another wife, and no follow-up question of whether Meri was 'inspired' to bring in Janelle? Yeah, right. They are so full of it, all the time!!

[VedaPierce]

Sorry not sorry, but I'm sick of excusing Meri for carrying on with what she thought was a man, planning on leaving everyone for her new rich, handsome, young millionaire, because Kidy (lol, typo, but I'll leave it. It's apropos) didn't pay enough attention to her. Isn't that the same excuse men use all the time for cheating on their wives??? That's bullshit!

[VedaPierce]

On April 3, 2018 at 8:28 PM, Kohola3 said:

Are we grading on a curve?

Hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

[LoneWolf]

On 4/5/2018 at 5:54 AM, KnoxForPres said:

 

Look I've fluctuated in weight as most women have. The one thing I've never done is sported a mustard yellow blazer at my highest weight (or lowest for that matter). What the ever loving F Robyn?  

Dwight Shrute ROCKED the mustard yellow. Don’t knock it! ? 

[LoneWolf]

On 4/4/2018 at 7:51 PM, Gothish520 said:

I honestly do not find that unusual at all. Growing up, my father spent recreational time with my brother playing baseball and watching sports, and my sisters and I spent time with my mother going shopping and playing card games and Scrabble. We did family stuff too, of course,  but my mom rarely did activities with just my brother and my father rarely did stuff with just the girls.

My dad spent loads of time with me. When I was little Dad took me to work sometimes and always played with me, and as a teen and young single adult I would spend several evenings and the weekend often with my Dad. When I married, Dad embraced my husband as a son, adored our children, and continued to be a part of my daily life. As I became an adult and responsible for myself, my dad truly was my best friend. Sure, I dated and had plenty of other friends, but my dad was consistent and unconditional in his love. He died ten years ago and I’ve been gutted for the last decade. I am a positive person and practice gratitude and present mindedness daily, but there is a gaping, jagged hole in my heart that will never be repaired. But I carry all the love and joy and wisdom of my dad in my heart. Now, I see my husband spend enormous amounts of time and energy with our girls who are now in their early teens. I am beyond grateful for the love and wisdom my dad invested in my life and I try to parent my children in a similar manner. If I am only a fraction as good as my dad I consider that a success. Fuck. I miss my dad. 

 

My mother, on the other hand, ignored me (unless I persisted in picking a fight which usually resulted in some attention in the form of a teeth rattling hit across the face).  I moved out and got my own house to rent at nineteen and worked and put myself through undergraduate and graduate degree programs. All of my accomplishments are wholly unimpressive to my mom.  My mother never has and still has nothing to do with me and when she does she cuts me down every chance she gets.  She adores my younger brother. I was a good kid—good grades, varsity sports, went to church activities, helped around the house, etc—but she tells it like I was and am a hellion. Now, I don’t care anymore and I am in a very healthy place, and I see her a couple times a year (even though we’re within an hour of each other) and even that is too much for me.  I have her only grandchildren and tried for years to involve her in our family, to no avail. 

 

Sorry for the rant, but my point is that how a parent interacts with a child imprints psychological and physiological conditions that are nearly impossible to erase. While I’ve reached a healthy place of acceptance of my mother’s rejection, her coldness and cruelty imbedded within my heart a complete and utter lack of self worth. I still struggle against feeling like I’m worth shit. And I had this amazing dad who loved me, spent time with me, disciplined when necessary (I don’t want to give the false impression that he spoiled me), and unconditionally accepted me. You know what? My brother would say the EXACT SAME THING because we BOTH were Dad’s favourites.  

 

It is extremely important for opposite sex parents to spend a great deal of time with their kids. Statistically, girls who have a positive relationship with their fathers do not engage in risky sexual behaviour, do drugs and drink, have abusive romantic relationships, and they have higher self esteem when compared to the same cohort without good relationships with their fathers.  It is painfully obvious how Kody’s older kids have reacted to his lack of positive parenting. Maddie and Mykelti marry right out of the gate, and while Caleb seems to be a decent fellow, Tony is, actually I can’t even describe how much that guy triggers alarms and makes my skin crawl. Logan got out, other boys joined the military (my husband joined at 17 just to get away from the house and I suspect some of the Brown kids saw this same opportunity and took it). The body language of the female littles and teens when Kody is present just screams an uncertainty and discomfort. Parents think they are hiding things like how mom and dad interact, but it is uncanny how perceptive kids are and how they pick up on what’s going on. Those kids KNOW how Kody felt/feels about each of their moms. They are learning that this is how relationships work. 

 

Again, sorry again for the rant but I see so much abuse and I see how damaging it is to have a parent who is utterly uninterested in your life, never smiles at or hugs you, ignores you when you speak, etc. There are no perfect parents, but research shows that what they call “good enough” parenting, parents who put forth their best efforts consistently, will typically raise well adjusted kids. 

 

While I know a great deal of reality tv is scripted and manufactured, there is still a human element especially in these children. Those kids aren’t acting, they’re reacting to their environment and it’s extremely difficult to hide body language, microexpressions, the nearly (but not fully) imperceptible muscle movements in the face and especially the eyes that, for lack of a better word, betrays what is going on inside a person. My heart goes out to these kids and I do wish them all the best. 

[Kohola3]

6 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

While I know a great deal of reality tv is scripted and manufactured, there is still a human element especially in these children. Those kids aren’t acting, they’re reacting to their environment and it’s extremely difficult to hide body language, microexpressions, the nearly (but not fully) imperceptible muscle movements in the face and especially the eyes that, for lack of a better word, betrays what is going on inside a person.

Very well said, the entire post.  I am so happy that your dad gave you such joy.

You are so right - despite any scripting, these people cannot act their way out of a paper bag.  We're seeing, in their physical body language, how bad things really are in the harem.

[Mahamid Frauded Me]

So now that we know they are coming back, we will be coming back to snark on them...haha - so what do you all think the next season is going to rally around ?

I really don't want another season devoted to another wedding, don't want to see me worthless therapy sessions with Nancy.. Meri's catfishing that was so 2015 

should be put to bed... Maybe get Jason & Grant back on teevee to do a ghost hunting special at the B & B with cinnamon rolls and all. 

[Gothish520]

15 hours ago, LoneWolf said:

My dad spent loads of time with me. When I was little Dad took me to work sometimes and always played with me, and as a teen and young single adult I would spend several evenings and the weekend often with my Dad. When I married, Dad embraced my husband as a son, adored our children, and continued to be a part of my daily life. As I became an adult and responsible for myself, my dad truly was my best friend. Sure, I dated and had plenty of other friends, but my dad was consistent and unconditional in his love. He died ten years ago and I’ve been gutted for the last decade. I am a positive person and practice gratitude and present mindedness daily, but there is a gaping, jagged hole in my heart that will never be repaired. But I carry all the love and joy and wisdom of my dad in my heart. Now, I see my husband spend enormous amounts of time and energy with our girls who are now in their early teens. I am beyond grateful for the love and wisdom my dad invested in my life and I try to parent my children in a similar manner. If I am only a fraction as good as my dad I consider that a success. Fuck. I miss my dad. 

 

My mother, on the other hand, ignored me (unless I persisted in picking a fight which usually resulted in some attention in the form of a teeth rattling hit across the face).  I moved out and got my own house to rent at nineteen and worked and put myself through undergraduate and graduate degree programs. All of my accomplishments are wholly unimpressive to my mom.  My mother never has and still has nothing to do with me and when she does she cuts me down every chance she gets.  She adores my younger brother. I was a good kid—good grades, varsity sports, went to church activities, helped around the house, etc—but she tells it like I was and am a hellion. Now, I don’t care anymore and I am in a very healthy place, and I see her a couple times a year (even though we’re within an hour of each other) and even that is too much for me.  I have her only grandchildren and tried for years to involve her in our family, to no avail. 

 

Sorry for the rant, but my point is that how a parent interacts with a child imprints psychological and physiological conditions that are nearly impossible to erase. While I’ve reached a healthy place of acceptance of my mother’s rejection, her coldness and cruelty imbedded within my heart a complete and utter lack of self worth. I still struggle against feeling like I’m worth shit. And I had this amazing dad who loved me, spent time with me, disciplined when necessary (I don’t want to give the false impression that he spoiled me), and unconditionally accepted me. You know what? My brother would say the EXACT SAME THING because we BOTH were Dad’s favourites.  

 

It is extremely important for opposite sex parents to spend a great deal of time with their kids. Statistically, girls who have a positive relationship with their fathers do not engage in risky sexual behaviour, do drugs and drink, have abusive romantic relationships, and they have higher self esteem when compared to the same cohort without good relationships with their fathers.  It is painfully obvious how Kody’s older kids have reacted to his lack of positive parenting. Maddie and Mykelti marry right out of the gate, and while Caleb seems to be a decent fellow, Tony is, actually I can’t even describe how much that guy triggers alarms and makes my skin crawl. Logan got out, other boys joined the military (my husband joined at 17 just to get away from the house and I suspect some of the Brown kids saw this same opportunity and took it). The body language of the female littles and teens when Kody is present just screams an uncertainty and discomfort. Parents think they are hiding things like how mom and dad interact, but it is uncanny how perceptive kids are and how they pick up on what’s going on. Those kids KNOW how Kody felt/feels about each of their moms. They are learning that this is how relationships work. 

 

Again, sorry again for the rant but I see so much abuse and I see how damaging it is to have a parent who is utterly uninterested in your life, never smiles at or hugs you, ignores you when you speak, etc. There are no perfect parents, but research shows that what they call “good enough” parenting, parents who put forth their best efforts consistently, will typically raise well adjusted kids. 

 

While I know a great deal of reality tv is scripted and manufactured, there is still a human element especially in these children. Those kids aren’t acting, they’re reacting to their environment and it’s extremely difficult to hide body language, microexpressions, the nearly (but not fully) imperceptible muscle movements in the face and especially the eyes that, for lack of a better word, betrays what is going on inside a person. My heart goes out to these kids and I do wish them all the best. 

It stinks that you had a terrible relationship with your mother. I had a wonderful relationship with mine - she was always there for all of us and was very loving and supportive. She passed away two years ago after a long illness and it was horrible. I also have a great relationship with my father, though we don't see each other or talk as much as we probably should. Growing up, he was the breadwinner and the authority figure - we knew when we saw "the look" we'd better check ourselves! It's always a good time when the whole family gets together.

There is certainly an argument to be made that children of plural families get short shrift when it comes to quality time spent with the father. With so many kids and multiple wives, the father's time and attention is pulled in many directions. It is likely that as kids get older, the father will spend more time with the children he has things in common with, and that would often be the boys due to sports and other traditionally "masculine" activities. Not always only the boys, obviously, but statistically speaking. For myself, I sure had no interest in sports, camping, hunting, etc. Whether Kody is a typical plyg father, I can't say, but I am in no position to speculate that his relationships with his children have ruined them. For all we know, he may have been better at it then some plyg fathers. I've heard stories of fathers who have little to no relationship with any of the children. And as reality shows are highly edited and manipulated, I'm not going to presume from fleeting glimpses of scenes and probably-staged reaction shots that any or all of the kids have issues with Kody.

Regarding the marriages, I know tons of people from monogamous families who married early and had children young, including one of my sisters and a few cousins - happens every day all over the world. Said sister is three-times divorced, as is a cousin - both came from stable, loving, intact homes, and made several bad marital choices. Neither would put the blame on any of their parents! And as for entering the military, that is something to be proud of - my father, uncle, and husband are all veterans, and I have a nephew who went into the Army, one who just entered the Air Force, and a niece who's already signed up for Air Force next year. They all came from loving homes and are entering freely because it's what they want to do. And I am very proud of them all!

[Kohola3]

39 minutes ago, Gothish520 said:

For all we know, he may have been better at it then some plyg fathers. I've heard stories of fathers who have little to no relationship with any of the children. And as reality shows are highly edited and manipulated, I'm not going to presume from fleeting glimpses of scenes and probably-staged reaction shots that any or all of the kids have issues with Kody.

Certainly we have no idea on how much time is allotted per kid but divide the number of hours in a day by the number of children and nobody got one-on-one time.  That's probably true in any large family, even monogamous ones.  But they rarely produce double digit numbers of kids.

And I maintain that nobody can act well enough in that clan to show body language that is the opposite of what they really feel.  Especially the little ones.

[Gothish520]

16 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

Certainly we have no idea on how much time is allotted per kid but divide the number of hours in a day by the number of children and nobody got one-on-one time.  That's probably true in any large family, even monogamous ones.  But they rarely produce double digit numbers of kids.

And I maintain that nobody can act well enough in that clan to show body language that is the opposite of what they really feel.  Especially the little ones.

I can't say I've noticed anything that would make me think that the kids are harboring any ill feelings towards any of the parents, but even if some of them were/are, it's entirely normal to not want someone up in your space, and it's entirely normal to rebel against authority. Many, maybe even most, kids go through stages where they think their parents are uncool and want to avoid them. That doesn't necessarily mean that their psyches are damaged. 

[kicotan]

1 hour ago, Gothish520 said:

I can't say I've noticed anything that would make me think that the kids are harboring any ill feelings towards any of the parents, but even if some of them were/are, it's entirely normal to not want someone up in your space, and it's entirely normal to rebel against authority. Many, maybe even most, kids go through stages where they think their parents are uncool and want to avoid them. That doesn't necessarily mean that their psyches are damaged. 

I agree.

My parents were both retired by the time I was 5.  There was only 3 of us, but they were ALWAYS home and gave us plenty of individual attention.  Neither of them abused us, smoked, drank/did drugs, gambled or had extramarital affairs. It did not guarantee any of us a positive self-image, successful “later-in-life” marriages or the absence of psychological issues.

I think most of the Brown kids (at least the older ones) want to fit in out there in the world and it is blatantly obvious that polygamy is NOT acceptable in our American society.  Good on Kody and their mothers for teaching them to choose for themselves and then accepting their choices, in spite of their own personal and/or religious convictions.

[DragonFaerie]

On April 4, 2018 at 3:26 PM, UsernameFatigue said:

 

OTOH, do we even know what the Brown kids that have graduated from high school are doing? A couple are in the army (or some branch of).  I think Logan is still in college, but not sure what he is taking or how close he is to finishing.  Maddie seemed to drop in and out of higher education, and now with a baby seems unlikely she will return anytime soon.  Mykelti I think has dropped out to work in the pawn shop. Meriah I think is in college but again not sure what she is doing there. Many seem to treat it as a way to put in time until they fall in love and get married. Do they think the TLC gravy train is going to support their generation, and the spawn they produce?

But regardless, I think their leaving the nest when they did had more to do with escaping, than good parenting. 

 

From their instagram accounts - Logan and fiance Michelle graduated from UNLV and are both working on their Masters there - I believe Logan is in a MBA program and Michelle in Criminal Justice.  Maddie dropped out after being pregnant and as far as we know, she hasn't started back.  Mykelti dropped out like her first year or so saying, School is hard, and daddy got her the job at his friend's pawn shop.  I "think" Aspyn has graduated but not sure.  Hunter is still in college at the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs. Gunter? Gabe? - did his training for I believe the National Guard but unsure what else he's doing.  Mariah graduated Westminster and is looking at Graduate Programs.

I now am sad that I know so much of this without having to currently research it.  On the other hand my brain has waaaayy to many random facts of the Duggars in it as well, which is so, so much worse.  

Edited April 29, 2018 by DragonFaerie
Too many M names and I got them mixed up.

[Absolom]

Mykelti is the one who dropped out saying school was too hard and then had the ridiculous wedding with Tony.  Mariah graduated last year or will graduate this spring.  She was looking at graduate schools.

Edited April 29, 2018 by Absolom

[DragonFaerie]

Thank you Absolom, you are correct.  Too many dang M names and my coffee intake is low today.  I fixed it.

[ginger90]

Mariah graduated last year:

 

[DakotaJustice]

20 hours ago, DragonFaerie said:

From their instagram accounts - Logan and fiance Michelle graduated from UNLV and are both working on their Masters there - I believe Logan is in a MBA program and Michelle in Criminal Justice.  Maddie dropped out after being pregnant and as far as we know, she hasn't started back.  Mykelti dropped out like her first year or so saying, School is hard, and daddy got her the job at his friend's pawn shop.  I "think" Aspyn has graduated but not sure.  Hunter is still in college at the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs. Gunter? Gabe? - did his training for I believe the National Guard but unsure what else he's doing.  Mariah graduated Westminster and is looking at Graduate Programs.

I now am sad that I know so much of this without having to currently research it.  On the other hand my brain has waaaayy to many random facts of the Duggars in it as well, which is so, so much worse.  

Last I heard Maddie was studying nursing with the goal of being a midwife, at the local community college.  She posted about it on the 'gram and also on her LLR group.

[Kohola3]

1 hour ago, DakotaJustice said:

Last I heard Maddie was studying nursing with the goal of being a midwife, at the local community college.  She posted about it on the 'gram and also on her LLR group.

I will be utterly shocked if she is successful in this.  We know she's been sucked into MLM work already.  For most programs she'd need to get her BSN (4 years) plus 1 year of working experience before going to midwifery training (3 years). Sorry but none of the Browns seem to have that kind staying power with the exception of Logan.  And all while bringing up the little Prince.  Not happening.

[xwordfanatik]

It would be shocking, indeed.  Maddie's probably already pregnant with #2.  

[RubySoho]

On 4/3/2018 at 12:09 PM, LilWharveyGal said:

Latter-day Noah Webster says that he found their plans celebratory and irreverent. 

Catching up on old posts & ooh-lawdy! “Latter-day Noah Webster” made me snort-laugh so hard that, instead of ingesting my adult beverage like an adult, it somehow managed to clear out my sinuses instead. So,  thanks for that.

#ireallyshouldhaveknownbetterthantodrinkwhiletryingtoreadyourrecap