Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[kismet]

I always had a feeling that that would be how they would reintroduce the Bratva into the story, having a Mafia story in the present to parallel the Bratva in the past, but I would wonder how they would make it the big bad for the entire season. The big bad usually has something to do with the comics, so I kind of want to go back and see anyone would fit. Honestly, at this point, I would love a female big bad just to mix things up a bit.

 

As for the possible death, I still think they might go with Lance. For the police connection, Oliver being mayor gives them a new police connection, plus an opportunity to create a new character to take over the the department (kind of like what they're doing with Patty on the Flash). I don't think that they would go for any other character not seen in 401, since anything else would honestly seem like a cop-out (yes, I know that these are the Arrow writers that we're talking about, but still).

Part of me when Poppy was originally suggested I hoped that they might make her the big bad of s5 because the would be amazing, esp because at that time I thought she might have connections to Bratva as well. But now that I have seen what they have done with that role and what the actress brings to the table. I want to bury that idea so far away in another galaxy. Because that would be absolutely horrible. Plus now with Andy, Arrow has brought back a few too many people from the dead to be the bad guys that it is getting a little old at this point.

 

But I do hope that they can bring in a Female Big Bad. I think Melinda Clarke just booked a gig on AoS or some other show, but she is someone I could see being a good Female Big Bad. I don't know much about the comics, but there has to be some big bad female they can scoop up if they feel the need to stick to the comics. And they could always bring back China White. She was a good Female Big Bad.

 

OQ having to step in on two fronts to save his city from a feuding Triad & Bratva might not be pure comics, but I think it would make for a good story. And it would make sense that once DD left, the city would be ripe for other crime organizations to come in and take back what was taken from them, as well as get more territory. It's the nature of crime and territories. Criminal Carpetbagging at its finest. They can always throw in Comic Bad Guys as VOTW to make their comics quotas. Part of me also likes the idea of having a few Big Bads because then there might be the potential that the story won't follow the same pattern every season. Perhaps it won't feel as stagnate at points in the season. Overall this season has moved, but I'm dreading the middle part of the season with only DD as the main bad guy and Calculator as a side treat.

[jay741982]

I wonder if Calculator might be brought back as a Big Bad for Season 5

[tarotx]

Calculator would be interesting because of his connection to Felicity (so Oliver by probably marriage by the big bad fight of s5). And of course Donna&Lance. That's a good idea.

 

We also might what to look at Anarky as well. I mean the show went out of the way and had Thea (and loosely Oliver) push him over the edge. And then he was barely on the show. Maybe that was set up. Perhaps testing the waters on how to do origin stories without the flashbacks. He is also political by nature and is oddly a computer guy in the comics. And he has loose mob ties on Arrow.

[Primal Slayer]

They really need to bring in Sportsmaster/Artemis/Chesire as a family unite, just adapt that entire Young Justice storyline.

 

King Cobra and his cult would make a good season long baddie.

 

The Royal Flush gang should make a comeback

 

And of course, I REALLY want them to do their version of The Crime Syndicate.

[KirkB]

I would like to see Oliver go up against Lady Shiva.

 

As for who's in the grave, let's run down the list.

1) It's obviously not Oliver unless Barry can see and talk to ghosts. (Just thought I'd put that out there).

2) It's probably not Felicity or Thea. Oliver didn't seem nearly broken enough for that and Barry was way too flippant.

3) Diggle? Maybe. It would still hurt Oliver but not in quite the same way as his fiance or sister, and Barry didn't know him all that well.

4) Andy? I suppose, but would Barry even come to that, let alone apologize for being late?

5) Nyssa? Doubtful. I'm not even sure Oliver would have reason to sit contemplatively by her grave and Barry would have no reason to come.

6) Laurel? Possible but not likely. They went through too much trouble making her the Canary.

7) Quentin? The most likely, in my opinion. He'd probably die stopping Dark or protecting Laurel. Oliver would mourn and I could see Barry showing up for that since he did meet the man a couple of times.

[statsgirl]

Oliver's line that before he would have thought that it's his fault, now he knows that it's his responsibility just shouts Quentin to me since Quentin was his more with DD.

[Velocity23]

They said the death will feel earned. Thats why i am thinking that the person in the grave does things that makes them a target for DD or whoever is responsible. So Quentin might be the reason why it all starts spiraling, i still think the persons actions will have a lot to do why they are dead.

[tarotx]

I still think that earned comment was in connection to the "killing" of the Lazarus pit. I mean they were saying they didn't know who was in the grave at the time.

http://tvline.com/2015/10/07/arrow-season-4-recap-who-died-death-oliver-felicity-proposal/

Oh I had forgotten that EP's actually said Oliver would fall in love with Poppy :x Poppy is so bland.

Edited December 20, 2015 by tarotx

[calliope1975]

I'm beginning to hope that MM is the person Oliver decides to kill as he's standing by the grave. No reason, other than he's way outstayed his welcome. I'd rather another year of DD Monsanto-ing the world, then Malcolm slithering around taking up space. 

[bijoux]

Oh I had forgotten that EP's actually said Oliver would fall in love with Poppy :x Poppy is so band.

 

Huh. I completely forgot about that as well. I though she was just introduced as "love interest" but I figured that could be anything from female on the island interacting with Oliver onwards. Okay, there are still 14 episodes left to the season, but nothing points in that direction so far. Where's Laurel's photo anyhow?

[kes0704]

Oh I had forgotten that EP's actually said Oliver would fall in love with Poppy :x Poppy is so band.

Of all the plot points that require suspension of belief on this show, Oliver falling in love with Poppy would have to be right at the top of the list. Unless it's some sort of "love the one you're with" type situation, but even then.... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Edited December 20, 2015 by kes0704

[statsgirl]

Where's Laurel's photo anyhow?

Hidden on the island somewhere?  I hope Oliver retrieves it before ARGUS or the Bratva come to take him away.

[kismet]

Laurels photo... OH where oh where have you gone??

If LL sticks around next season, I hope one of the bad guys finds it and comes after her to find his true love or just cos. That photo deserves more of a plotline than just kindling.

[way2interested]

If LL sticks around next season, I hope one of the bad guys finds it and comes after her to find his true love or just cos. That photo deserves more of a plotline than just kindling.

 

See, I kind of hope that it's still on the island and Poppy finds it at some point, just so we can have another character berate Oliver about how bad an idea was to cheat on a girl with her sister. It could make sense, especially if Poppy is supposed to be a love interest.

[kismet]

Poppy has been such a dud and LL such a disappointment at this point I just have more of an interest in what happens to the photo than I do either of the characters.

I don't need OQ berated by Poppy. He knows the sister swapping was wrong and if not I certainly don't need another remubder. But a few snarky comments about the photo would be nice.

Edited December 20, 2015 by kismet

[Chaser]

Maybe she'll find the photo and ask him about her and it will be all awkward silence followed by "she's my sister."

I would die of laughter

[Primal Slayer]

Somehow I think they dropped Poppy as being a past love interest. She was suppose to be used to contrast Olicity in the present day but they haven't even touched upon it at all.

[way2interested]

See, I thought that with Ray and Felicity as well last year, since they only randomly kissed in 307 and seemed to really be going no where towards any type of relationship unless it was for pure rebound purposes, but 315-319 put them into a "real" relationship that I was supposed to think was a legitimate choice for Felicity. Now, Poppy and Oliver have even less in terms of a relationship from 4a compared to Ray and Felicity in 3a, but they could always squeeze a relationship last minute like last year. 

[dtissagirl]

Poppy and Oliver will probably hook up in the flashback epissssnorezzzzzzYAWN.

[SmallScreenDiva]

They also did it with Sara and Oliver. No indication of a romantic connection (except for the past one) until that lunge in 213. So yeah, Poppy and Oliver have all the time in the world, well 4-5 eps, to fall in love. I'm kinda wondering if the EPs may have reconsidered considering how tepid the reaction has been to Poppy. I remember Wendy Mericle saying something about Poppy being the woman the EPs "hope" Oliver falls in love with on the Island and there was discussion on this board about why they have to "hope" when they're the ones writing the story. Maybe they were waiting for the audience's reaction to the character before finally committing to a romantic story line.

[Primal Slayer]

It seems useless to have them fall in love when the couple they are contrasting most likely wont be in such great terms by the time they get around to it.

[hogwash]

Did she find out he killed her brother yet? I think that guy who thinks Oliver is a spy told her but the flashbacks are white noise to me. Why would she fall in love with a guy who murdered her brother? Oliver doesn't seem interested either.

[dtissagirl]

The contrast can be in the lying instead of the relationshipping. Oliver getting away with lying to Poppy vs. Oliver facing consequences for lying to Felicity. OR both women will call him out of the lying, I dunno. The lying is the only common thread either way.

[kismet]

Yea, I called the lying being the only connecting parallel between the two a few weeks ago. It's the only thing that makes sense as to why they would have comparing couples. And there totally is time for them to lunge themselves to love.

But if it's about OQ just needing a release Im still rooting for the coconut.

[dtissagirl]

He has to have sex with Poppy to fall in love with her anyway, that was his m.o. pre-Felicity.

[Guest]

Poppy and Oliver will definitely hook up. I just don't believe he'll fall in love with her since it's painfully obvious he'd never really been in love before. I know there's a debate about this but I just don't buy him loving all these different women. I think he cares for them deeply but there's no comparison to how he acts with and feels about Felicity.

I literally couldn't care less who he has sex with in the past though. Snore.

[calliope1975]

Yea, I called the lying being the only connecting parallel between the two a few weeks ago. It's the only thing that makes sense as to why they would have comparing couples. And there totally is time for them to lunge themselves to love.

 

I'm still waiting for the flashbacks to have a point, and I would need to care or, let's be honest, notice Poppy exists, to have a parallel with the present that resonates. Oliver could have married/murdered Poppy, or had a polyamorous relationship with Poppy and Southern Guy, and I wouldn't have noticed because zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Maybe they can get Matt Ryan to come back and just hang out in the background so I'd pay attention. 

[Morrigan2575]

Do we know they'll actually fall in love? I remember something that WM said that was kind of like we hope it'll become a romance or something

[quarks]

That's the real question: if Oliver and Poppy do throw themselves into each other's arms, will any of Arrow's viewers even notice?

[statsgirl]

Can the flashbacks be saved at all? That is the question.  Each year they get worse and worse.

 

Poppy and Oliver will definitely hook up. I just don't believe he'll fall in love with her since it's painfully obvious he'd never really been in love before. I know there's a debate about this but I just don't buy him loving all these different women. I think he cares for them deeply but there's no comparison to how he acts with and feels about Felicity.

He's not really in love with them but he thinks he is.  He thought he was in love with Laurel, and maybe Shado, I can see  him thinking he's in love with Poppy and then he's all conflicted because he lied to her.

[Primal Slayer]

I'vr said it once and I will say it again, they NEED to adapt this! We have everyone except WW so they just need to find someone to replace her. Supergirl would be ideal but since she isn't part of the Flarrowverse, they could change roles around and have Vixen in the WW role.

[statsgirl]

I was just wondering .....  if Oliver and Felicity get married in the 100th episode as we've been speculating, and it's the 8th episode of the season, traditionally the cross-over episode, if Ray officiated, would that be a good thing or a bad thing?

[Soulfire]

[Password]

Oliver (hopefully) falls in love with Poppy?

Haha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha an.

These EPs slay me.

[wonderwall]

In your opinion, all things equal, what are 5 things that could greatly improve the show for you guys?

 

Mine are:

 

1. No more flashbacks
2. Make the show about Oliver again and make him a badass again (like in S1)
3. More diverse character interactions (FS/JD, FS/TQ, TQ/JD, QL/TA, TQ/OQ)
4. Write Laurel off (she's just dead weight)
5. No more contrived drama (like the BM crap)

[BkWurm1]

1.  No more contrived drama.

2.  No more contrived drama.

3.  No more contrived drama.

4.  No more contrived drama.

5.  NO MORE CONTRIVED DRAMA!

 

Everything else I could live with. 

Edited December 30, 2015 by BkWurm1

[BkWurm1]

Ok, taking a deeper stab at the 5 things to fix Arrow list. 

 

 

1. No more contrived drama.  Still the very most important thing the show can do.

 

2. No fight sequences just for the sake of a fight sequence. 

 

3. Way more interacting between everyone for no other reason than to see them interact. The team bonds need to be strengthened. 

 

4. More daylight.  Fights, events, chases, conversation.  Just more daylight.  It makes everything feel more real and grounded.  Doesn’t have to be sunny or bright, just somewhere real. 

 

5. Break the “must get rid of someone” every year habit.  If there is a valid reason for a death fine but stop treating it like it’s part of the DNA of the show.  This year they didn’t even let the story unfold.  They just pointed a neon sign and said we are killing someone.  It speaks to a tendency toward lazy writing that does nothing to improve the show.

Edited December 30, 2015 by BkWurm1

[Morrigan2575]

1 - Get rid of the Flashbacks

2 - Get rid of Laurel

3 - Stop writing characters to service the plot and stick to character driven stories.

4 - Go back to the simple/realistic S1 stunts and fight sequences which includes parkour.

5 - Stop with the melodrama/angst for the sake of angst. Guess what, Whedon was WRONG a Happy Buffy is NOT a boring Buffy...

[hogwash]

1. Malcolm Merlyn is dead and Thea doesn't care (very important)

2. Oliver Queen with a job (the mayor thing could be amazing but not getting my hopes up)

3. No Lance family drama (hint hint hint!!)

4. BM and kid in offscreenville/Central City

5. Good villian who doesn't revolve around or care about Oliver Queen or Starling

[Balaclava]

1-No more Laurel. Kill her, write her off, ship her to earth 2
2-Back to this show being about Oliver, badass S1 Oliver Queen in action/more OTA 
3-No contrived drama and definitely no more S3 pain porn levels, no more "because plot" 
4-More daylight/friends having fun or drinks once in a while
5-A female super badass villain 

[BkWurm1]

5-A female super badass villain

 



Isabel, China White, and kind of Amanda Waller.  That's it for the villains, isn't it.  Even Nyssa and Helena are anti-heroes.  It is way past time for a female super villain.  At this point Moira is the one to beat. 

 

It's kind of glaring now that I'm looking at it. 

Edited December 30, 2015 by BkWurm1

[Velocity23]

I wouldnt mind Bratva flashback with Anatoli. Its all i want from flashback actually.

 

More Oliver doing parkour like in s1.

 

Diggle/Oliver making sure Felicity gets some training. Also werent we promised Diggle and Thea training. Gimme.

 

Felicity and Thea shown to actually have conversation together, also a reminder that Felicity and Diggle used to be friends. Gimme more.

 

More Lyla being badass.

[Balaclava]



Isabel, China White, and kind of Amanda Waller.  That's it for the villains, isn't it.  Even Nyssa and Helena are anti-heroes.  It is way past time for a female super villain.  At this point Moira is the one to beat. 

 

It's kind of glaring now that I'm looking at it. 

 

There's a lack of female villains ITA, but i meant a female super badass villain for season big bad

[kismet]

Here's my top five (in no particular order)

1. Keep the flashbacks but make them good again like s1 & s2. Also no need to be I every episode if it pulls too much from present day and adds nothing relevant.

2. Get rid of LL. Kill her, move her offscreen, move her to another show. I really don't care but she drags down the budget and pacing of the show to include her.

3. Make the stunts better again. More parkour and realistic fights. Less aiming for the best stunt ever and more using the quality talents of the actors you have. More actor stunts and less stunt doubles (or at least better hiding the doubles).

4. Bring it to the daylight. More scenes in the light of day. More scenes of TA living daily life. There is enough of them that they should be able to get some respite and breaks.

5. No more contrived drama for plot. May I never have to write "for plot purposes" to explain or overlook stuff. Writing character driven plots is a good way to achieve this.

Edited December 30, 2015 by kismet

[Sakura12]

For me it's.

 

1. Get rid of Laurel, she adds nothing to the show.

 

2. Only use the flashbacks for things that need to be learned. If nothing is happening in the FB we don't need to see it.

 

3. No more changing the characters to fit the plot. If the plot doesn't work for the characters, change it so it works. Characters first.

 

4. Which brings me to more character scenes, let them breath for a second and let them talk to each other. Let us see them interact as a team by having fun or laughing. Going to dinner, playing a game, chilling at one another house, having fun in the Arrow Lair (if you want to save on sets). 

 

5. Focus on making the stunts better not making them more extravagant all the time. 

Edited December 30, 2015 by Sakura12

[BkWurm1]

There's a lack of female villains ITA, but i meant a female super badass villain for season big bad

Yes absolutely.  I just realized that the closest we've had to a season long female big bad really was Moira. 

[KirkB]

It's funny. When I jumped into this thread a few minutes ago and saw Oliver falls in love with Poppy my mind went immediately to the seed, and I realized Oliver developing a drug habit on the island would be more interesting to me than anything else in the flashbacks.

 

And since everyone else is doing lists:

 

1) Stop the flashbacks. Of course, I've been saying this all along, I'm just glad so many other people are now on board too.

2) Figure out Laurel. I won't bother saying get rid of her since I know that's not going to happen. But figure out what her role on the show really is. Just being the Black Canary isn't enough. 90% of the time she wanders around like the show runners need to fill time or have someone ask a question and they remember KC is sitting there with nothing to do, and the other 10% of the time she's in the mask.

3) Plot out your villains better. Dark has been a joy to watch, if only because of NM, but we shouldn't only be getting a vague inclining of his plans at the halfway point of the season. We knew pretty quickly what Malcolm was up to. Slade was revealed pretty early. Ra's was an over arching villainous presence before he ever showed up (and far less actually villainous once he did, but that's another issue). Dark...maybe wants to drown Star City? Or something?

4) Stop the flashbacks. Seriously, I think this bears repeating. Okay, so maybe that's no more likely to happen than Laurel leaving. Fine. Then if you insist on them taking over so much of the season, at least (as others have said more eloquently than I) have them serve a purpose. As much as I hate them now they existed for a reason in the first season and though they got in the way they made narrative sense in the second too. By three it's like they were filling time, though when Marc Singer showed up I will admit I was able to make them a little more bearable by imagining Oliver was fighting the Beastmaster.

Edited December 30, 2015 by KirkB

[Lady Calypso]

Ah, I love all of your lists. I have a few different points; not many, but just a couple of additions here and there.

 

1) I don't mind the flashbacks, but get Oliver off that damn island for a bit and get him to Russia already. Have him grow out his hair again, since he is supposed to have long hair and a beard by the time he's rescued (unless he faked that, in which case...still....). I'm more curious about his Bratva adventures than anything flashback-related this past season. But just reduce the number of flashbacks, if anything. I think have the first half of season 5 in Russia, and then have him return to the island, find it deserted and then....end the flashbacks. There, then we know he's been alone on the island for at least four or five months there.

 

2) Don't kill off characters just for the sake of it. If you feel like character deaths is what makes the plot move forward and let the characters have emotional moments, you're writing your show wrong. Killing characters make it too easy. Giving them challenges that don't include death is what makes it difficult and more rewarding. 

 

3) Bring back Roy Harper. Ok, I'm sorry, but Roy fit on the team really, really well. Yes, it's yet another member to Team Arrow, and yes, he's currently supposed to be dead. But...I like Roy. He had the best characterization and growth in season 3. He had a relatively stable relationship with Thea. He had good interactions with Oliver that made him think and consider other ways of doing things. It taught Oliver how to be a mentor. Roy was a really good team player and I think, even with the changed dynamics, he'd still fit seamlessly into the show. 

 

4) Let's get in some more superheroines, shall we? We have Sara, Laurel, Helena, Cupid and probably a couple others here and there. Some were heroes, others were not. But some of these villainesses were not Big Bads. We need a change in villains next season, just to spice things up. We had Malcolm/Dark Archer (and Moira) season 1, Slade season 2, Ra's season 3 and now Darhk season 4. How about a female Big Bad to even things out, even by a little bit?  It would be a really nice change to see a Big Bad as a female, instead of the female villains only having a couple of episodes. Moira was a great anti-hero, almost villain but they didn't truly commit her. But I think they did what they could with her. 

 

5) I'm only partially ok with the crossovers. Some of them are fine; I love Barry and Oliver's interactions. I love Barry and Felicity's, and I don't even mind Cisco helping out here and there. I don't mind the talking about the characters on their respected shows (Felicity/Caitlin are apparently friends, Cisco helped with the lair). I just think they need to really save the major crossover episodes for special moments, for when they actually need them. For example, Barry coming to save Team Arrow last season when Oliver 'killed' them? That was fine. I know it was contrived because they could have called Barry much earlier, but the fact that he popped in to help and then said he had to go back because of his Wells crisis worked. I don't need anything else other than that. But if you utilize the crossovers, don't leave characters out just for the sake of it! Iris not being part of the crossover, for example, was stupid. So yeah, just....create a balance of The Flash and Arrow (and now, Legends of Tomorrow, OH GOD) and do it in a smarter way. 

 

6) DON'T MAKE OLIVER LOOK LIKE AN IDIOT AND AN INCOMPETENT ONE WHILE FIGHTING JUST TO MAKE OTHERS LOOK BETTER IN COMPARISON. Hell, I don't love Ray, but even when Oliver was helping with him, they balanced each other out better than this shit that they're trying to buy us into. Remember when Oliver and Roy fought together? Roy didn't overpower villains and have Oliver being automatically injured just so Roy can look better. So that means cut down on the team members out on the field. Not necessarily the team members themselves (see my post about Roy), but just....have two in the field and others on other, medial jobs. Backup, lookout, getaway driver, take over on comms for Felicity to have a break, anything but all fighters out there.

[EmilyBettFan]

Top 5 things for me

1) get rid of Laurel yawn Lance

2) no more contrived drama.

3) more OTA

4) More Thea/Felicity and Felicity/Diggle

5) more Oliver being badass.

[Happy Harpy]

My top 5, also quite common.

 

1) Get back to the premise of the show. More realism and more heroes-next-door with great personalities. No more masks (hint: a superpower doesn't equal to a personality). Imo, people are more likely to watch a badly written show with interesting and relatable characters than a wonderfully written show with unsympathetic walking cardboards.

2) Get back to the organic core of the show: Oliver at the center, with Diggle and Felicity as the first circle. Imo, everything that works will naturally find its place in this puzzle, and it will also allow to correct one of the recurring flaws of the show, i.e. using too many newbies every season and not exploiting properly most of them.

3) Get back to practicality. It works: Keep it. It doesn't work: Get rid of it. I'm not talking only about what works with the audience (although TV being a mass media, it is imo nonsensical to discount it entirely) but if a character or a plotline change every episode into a "drop the idiot ball" contest, I think it can be said that objectively, they don't work.

4) Get back to the roots. After three and a half seasons and five years worth of flashback for Oliver only, the show should be able feed on its own history, and acquire a new dimension by doing so. It was done in S2-A with the Canary arc, so it should be all the more possible now. Unfortunately, it won't be if a) the flashbacks tell a side-story and are mostly anecdotal instead of contributing to enrich the present days storyline b) the characters who could be used are killed off and the bridges burned with the actors (as it seems to be the case with ST, for example). A moratorium on death as a plot device is most urgent imo.

5) Get rid of Laurel Lance, since she doesn't fit any of those principles. She is just another mask, she isn't a natural fit with the core characters, she doesn't work, and she has no history or unique connections on the show that could enrich it as a whole. Imho, of course.

Edited January 3, 2016 by Happy Harpy