Hopes and Fears: How Will We Survive This Island? (Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers)

[NumberCruncher]

I'm pretty sure one of the EPs came right out and said that Ivo is not Felicity's dad.

[pivot]

So much for that theory.

[foreverevolving]

It's not Wells either. 6 is an old enough age that you remember what your parents look like and would remember as your get older. if Wells was her dad we would have gotten a reaction from her on the Flash crossover.

its not Ivo too.

 

I think it's someone we haven't met. or only heard of in passing.

[Ariah]

My other hopes for this season:

- Mama Smoak should have a cameo in one or two episodes (but not more)

- It's Felicity's time to say "I love you", preferably to a semi-conscious and almost dead Oliver

- Salmon Ladder. 'Nuff said.

[statsgirl]

My fear is that with the Felicity episode getting such high ratings, MG is going to think that Felicity having multiple love interests is the way to go this season, so that Oliver can be all manpain-y.  It's only ep 5, and she's already kissed three different guys, even if Cooper was in the past.  You know Ray is going to be up next since they been promoting him as a love interest since June.

[olicityfan25]

I just don't see what the big deal is with Felicity kissing her fourth guy.

 

Cooper was in the past, and she's obviously not going to be kissing Barry again. So technically it's only really 2 people.

 

It's not like she's hopping into bed with one best friend after breaking up with the other.

[ohjoy]

I just don't see what the big deal is with Felicity kissing her fourth guy.

For me, the problem is that the fourth guy is supposed to be a viable alternative to the first guy, and I don't see him as one, at all. So I don't really want to see her kissing him because I don't think he should even count as an option.

[statsgirl]

I'm surprised at how many people really disliked the Felicity episode, with comments like this.

 

Reading through those comments, it seems like they weren't watching the show but now I'm worried the producers will pull back on secondary cast characterization in general and Felicity in particular.  I disliked ep 3x02 - 3x04 so much, I'm worried that that's what we'll be getting more of.

[KenyaJ]

Ratings > Reddit comments.

[apinknightmare]

I'm surprised at how many people really disliked the Felicity episode, with comments like this.

 

Reading through those comments, it seems like they weren't watching the show but now I'm worried the producers will pull back on secondary cast characterization in general and Felicity in particular.  I disliked ep 3x02 - 3x04 so much, I'm worried that that's what we'll be getting more of.

 

Doesn't reddit seem to not like Felicity in general though? Or maybe that was just the sentiment I ran into when I went into a few threads. I doubt you'd ever find a favorable review of any ep about her on there.

 

The ratings and demo that episode got are all TPTB are going to read into. People were excited about getting to see more about Felicity - it got them to tune in and tweet and trend - if the storyline was a failure, that's on the writers, and TPTB know that.

Edited November 8, 2014 by apinknightmare

[statsgirl]

Thanks, I don't usually go on reddit, it's too confusing for me (I'm no Margaret Atwood).  The reddit comments were linked from a reviewer who I've liked and agreed with in the past but who said he was glad he would never have to watch this episode again.  There seems to be a general air of malaise about this show, which I attributed to the depressing nature of the first few episodes but there are a number of complaints about this one too, in spite of the humor and what I thought was an interesting reveal of Felicity's past.  I guess I'm just generally worried for what's coming up this season, the combination of Laurel's origin story, Team Arrow being split up and reformed to include Laurel, and time taken away from what I'm interested in.  I didn't know how good I had it in 2A.

[Genki]

I think between The Flash last week and Arrow this week, Felicity got a lot of genuinely positive buzz, on tumblr, Facebook and twitter. No the mention all the critical reviews and the ratings raise. 

 

I desperately hope honestly think CW will step in soon to course correct, usually they are such a meddlesome network.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Genki

[Shanna]

Ratings > Reddit comments.

Yup! Most of the criticism I've seen seems awfully nitpicky. This show isn't actually that great at plotting, so I don't see any particular reason to fault this episode more than the others.

Now we get to look forward to the inevitable Felicitys dad episode. I hope it doesn't take another three years.

[NumberCruncher]

LOL...I don't even bother with Reddit or IMDB. From what I've seen their comments generally don't follow the general audience trend, ratings, or reviews. Just like most posters here don't like Laurel, the ones who dislike Felicity congregate there. Not everyone has to love Felicity and I'm cool with that. I care more about ratings and those were great for her episode--as was the response by fans of The Flash--so I don't worry about how the show will use EBR or her character in the future on Arrow.

[BkWurm1]

I'm surprised at how many people really disliked the Felicity episode, with comments like this.

 

Reading through those comments, it seems like they weren't watching the show but now I'm worried the producers will pull back on secondary cast characterization in general and Felicity in particular.  I disliked ep 3x02 - 3x04 so much, I'm worried that that's what we'll be getting more of.

I did some reading on that page and the biggest complaints seemed to be centered on how Brother Eye wasn't showcased in an important enough manner followed by the nitpicky stuff, and/or they don't care about Felicity's backstory. Interestingly enough one of the complainer's wives watched it and thought it was one of the shows best.

[KirkB]

From what I've seen there tend to be two types of complainers on the net. One is the people who don't bother posting unless they genuinely dislike something (ie I like this show but that was a terrible episode) and those who will go out of their way to always complain about the specific things they dislike. You don't hear from the first as much but the second tend to be far more vocal. People who already don't like Felicity are, of course, going to be up in arms about an episode that is focused mostly on her. Anyone who dislikes Diggle or Quentin or Laurel or whoever would have the same reaction to an episode all about them.

Edited November 9, 2014 by KirkB

[Ceylon5]

I think the problem with not addressing Felicity's back-story for so long, and with her being such a popular character, people ended up coming up with their own hopes and ideas of what her background was.  Some wanted her to be completely normal; others wanted her to be more connected to comic books (e.g. knowing Barbara Gordon at college) or have more intrigue in her back-story.  No matter what they ended up writing, they were going to disappoint some people, and people get critical when their expectations aren't met.  Also, some viewers are mostly interested in the comic book related plot line, and if that is found wanting, they get irritated.  I didn't come across reviews or comments complaining about Felicity herself (she really is incredibly well-liked), just that they thought what the writers came up with didn't do her sufficient justice.

 

Leaving open the mystery of Felicity's father will probably create the same problem.  Some people just want him to be a regular guy.  Others want him to be a DC hero, while still others think it would be cool if he were a DC villain.  So no matter what they end up writing, some people will be complaining about clichés and boring/silly plot lines, because whatever they'd hoped for wasn't done (or wasn't done well).  At the end of the day, though, people like Felicity and they just want her to get a decent story.  I think that's why the abrupt change from Goth to blonde Felicity bugged many people too - it was kind of the writers' way of saying "Okay, see, we've told you her whole back-story now, so could you stop nagging about that please?".  We have these long, dull drawn-out stories for everything Oliver did over the 5 years he was away, but whizzed through Felicity's story like there wasn't much to tell.  Because of how that ending was written, I can't see them re-visiting her college days again (so no more Goth Felicity, sadly).  If we ever get anymore flash-backs for her, I suppose it would have to be her coming to Starling City and joining QC.  But they really implied that they'd said everything they were going to say about her origins, and I think that's a shame.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Ceylon5

[Ariah]

I have made my peace with the fact that Laurel will become the BC - it's inevitable, like death and taxes. One should not fear death, one may fear taxes.

 

But I am afraid the writers will try to force her upon Oliver. I don't mind (too much) Laurel as the BC, but I will mind - to the point of quitting the show - if the "romance" between Laurel and Oliver will rekindle. Let's not get that way, shall we, Arrow writers?

 

On the hopes front: I'd like to see Felicity punch Ray once she learns he's not as transparent as she thinks. Pretty please, with a cherry on top.

[Password]

I'd like to see Oliver punch Ray. For science.

[Ariah]

Actually, both Felicity and Oliver may punch Ray. Hey, Diggle may help.

[Password]

Make it an OG Team Arrow effort.

[Nagevs]

But I am afraid the writers will try to force her upon Oliver. 

 

 

This is one of my biggest fears for this show, the writers are sticking to their 'original plan' in all aspects. First they make Laurel black canary, then they resume the romance with Oliver. Because you know, comics.

[Luckylyn]

This is one of my biggest fears for this show, the writers are sticking to their 'original plan' in all aspects. First they make Laurel black canary, then they resume the romance with Oliver. Because you know, comics.

The way How I Met Your Mother ended makes be fear this.  Sometimes show runners will stick to their original plan long after it doesn't make sense anymore.  I'm hoping Arrow will end up more like Dawson's Creek where the writers realize the original plan has to be adjusted.   What happened to Sara has made me lose trust with the writers.  Discarding Sara when she worked so well makes me worried about who else could get eliminated.

[Ariah]

This is one of my biggest fears for this show, the writers are sticking to their 'original plan' in all aspects. First they make Laurel black canary, then they resume the romance with Oliver. Because you know, comics.

 

I'm still holding out hope that's not the endgame, because

A. scriptwise you put obstacles in the path of the main couple, and Ray-Obstacle-Palmer is here,

B. CW did once a show with Green Arrow (Smallville) and there Oliver Queen married

Chloe Sullivan, a proto-Felicity

.

 

Still, the fear remains.

[Nagevs]

 Sometimes show runners will stick to their original plan long after it doesn't make sense anymore.  .

 

This. I've just grown so exceedingly wary of the writers true intentions no matter what they say since they killed off Sara. 

I'm still holding out hope that's not the endgame, because

A. scriptwise you put obstacles in the path of the main couple, and Ray-Obstacle-Palmer is here,

B. CW did once a show with Green Arrow (Smallville) and there Oliver Queen married

Chloe Sullivan, a proto-Felicity

.

 

Still, the fear remains.

 

There really is no logical reason to go back to Laurel and Oliver, but some of the showrunners choices have defied logic, so yeah, I just continue to fear for Felicity.

[NumberCruncher]

The way How I Met Your Mother ended makes be fear this. Sometimes show runners will stick to their original plan long after it doesn't make sense anymore. I'm hoping Arrow will end up more like Dawson's Creek where the writers realize the original plan has to be adjusted. What happened to Sara has made me lose trust with the writers. Discarding Sara when she worked so well makes me worried about who else could get eliminated.

Glad you mentioned Dawson's Creek because Berlanti was instrumental in deviating from the original plan there. Hopefully his influence on Arrow will follow the same path.

[Anthea]

The HIMYM finale has burned a lot of us ahahah! That's why I won't believe anything until the very last episode. BUT, the fact that Berlanti had to do with Dawson's Creek change gives me hope. And I have to say, for as much as I don't like it, I believe too that they traded the LI stuff for the BC stuff.

[DrSpaceman10]

Why did they change Felicity's episode title from 

Oracle

to The Secret Origin of Felicity Smoak? Is it because of Barbara not-yet-Gordon on Gotham? Or are they saving the title for a future episode?

[dtissagirl]

Why did they change Felicity's episode title from

Oracle

to The Secret Origin of Felicity Smoak? Is it because of Barbara not-yet-Gordon on Gotham? Or are they saving the title for a future episode?

They never explained the change. One article said something like "going in another direction" re: Felicity's storyline, but it wasn't even a direct quote: http://insidetv.ew.com/2014/08/18/arrow-felicity-backstory-season-3/. It could have been anything from DC going back on the approval, to the EPs legit changing their minds about her backstory.

Edited November 9, 2014 by dancingnancy

[Morrigan2575]

Same thing happened in 205. Original title was Demon Head and the internet went nuts thinking Ra's All Ghul was showing up. They later changed the title to League of Assassins and ended up calling 213 Heir to the Demon.

So it's possible that the show will go back to the Oracle title later in the season if Felicity gets another character centric episode.

They couldn't have changed direction on the story since they were already writing or finished writing 305 by the SDCC announcement.

I do wonder if floating the original 205 & 305 titles was an attempt to gauge audience reaction.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Ariah]

But the title Oracle would make little sense in the light of the events of 305. Felicity did little guiding this episode, much less then she usually does. 

 

I'm hoping the Oracle title will make a reappearance in an episode where Felicity actually does something Oracly ;]

 

(btw, the Barbara on Gotham is not the Barbara who become the Orcale ;) We're off by 20 years and a generation)

Edited November 9, 2014 by Ariah

[DrSpaceman10]

(btw, the Barbara on Gotham is not the Barbara who become the Orcale ;) We're off by 20 years and a generation)

 

She does live in a Clock Tower though, I thought that was only an Oracle thing?

Edited November 9, 2014 by drspaceman10

[BkWurm1]

It seems to me that clock towers are the in place to live these days.

[tv echo]

I think Roy is going to be killed off this season.  At first, I thought Roy's nightmare of killing Sara was a red herring, but now I'm thinking that he really did kill Sara - but under the influence of mirakuru or brainwashing of some sort.  The mystery would be how and why.  

 

Roy's death would work for several reasons:

- Each season has had a major death.  Roy's death would serve as the 'shocking' death this season.

- There has to be some retribution or punishment for the murder of Sara, a beloved character.

- Roy's death would open up a sidekick slot on Team Arrow for either Thea or Laurel (ugh).

- Roy's death could serve as a catalyst to turn Thea from Malcolm's villain path to Oliver's hero path.

- Roy isn't a necessary character, either on Team Arrow or on the show, esp. now that he's no longer Thea's boyfriend.

- Who else can the EPs kill off this season?

 

(I don't count Sara's death as the 'major death' this season - even though it is a major death - because her death was just a plot contrivance for Laurel's journey.)

Edited November 11, 2014 by tv echo

[Ariah]

 

- Who else can the EPs kill off this season?

 

Quentin

Diggle

Ray Palmer

Merlyn (for real)

(gasp!) Felicity.

[Kordi]

I REALLY like the following speculation about what is going to happen in the midseason finale (This is MERE speculation, not based on any spoilers, therefore, it can be mentioned in this thread):

"For the mid-season finale, I think Oliver will actually ‘kill’ Oliver Queen in a more drastic way. My theory goes like this:

Oliver will discover that Thea is being trained by Malcolm Merlyn. So will the League of Assassins. They will wage war against Malcolm and Thea (Thea because she has been trained in the LoA way without sanction). Oliver will be caught in the middle.

The LoA will ask for Thea’s life in exchange for them letting her father go. Oliver will wage war on Ra’s Al Ghul. But in the end, volunteer his own life in exchange for Thea’s." (see http://outoftheclosetshipper.tumblr.com/post/102276596843/hello-i-just-want-to-share-my-theory-on-mid-season)

Edited November 10, 2014 by Kordi

[wonderwall]

Honestly, I'm dreadfully disappointed with this season. All my hopes vanished in the last 2 minutes of episode 3x01. This season has no direction, it has no excitement, no clear focus. The only character's arc who I feel is actually moving forward is Laurel and they're doing that in a terribly contrived way. The fact that team Arrow moments is as scarce as they were (probably even moreso) in season 2b is just disappointing. The amount of plot holes in the first five episodes is pathetically high and it just grates my nerves that the writers aren't taking more care to resolve these issues. I miss Felicity's interactions with Digg and Oliver and I miss what the show used to be. There's just so much tension in every aspect of the show that it makes it difficult to watch. I hope the writers can turn it around, but I do know that if they don't turn it around by the end of season 3 then I probably won't tune in for season 4. It's sad because Arrow is the first show I've ever obsessed about. 

[pootlus]

I'm with you, wonderwall.  I just can't get invested in the show this year.  I still haven't seen 3x04 and having read the ep description for 3x06 I'm struggling to sum up the will to watch it (spoiler tagged for those who don't read ep descriptions) -

I mean seriously, the two least interesting and most wooden characters on the show (Laurel and Ted Grant, in case you didn't know *g*) look like they're going to take up a major chunk of the episode, with the...yawn...Hong Kong flashbacks taking up another chunk.  Be still my beating heart.  While it's hilarious to watch Laurel and Oliver interact just for the fucks Oliver does not give about Laurel, it's bloody painful at the same time because of the lack of chemistry the two actors have either in a friendship or romantic sense.

[DrSpaceman10]

I agree, the only two episodes I've re-watched this year are 3x01 and 3x05 (and 1x04 of The Flash) and if the promos and description for 3x06 are any indication I'll barely get through that episode the first time.

[statsgirl]

Oliver will discover that Thea is being trained by Malcolm Merlyn. So will the League of Assassins. They will wage war against Malcolm and Thea (Thea because she has been trained in the LoA way without sanction). Oliver will be caught in the middle.

The LoA will ask for Thea’s life in exchange for them letting her father go. Oliver will wage war on Ra’s Al Ghul. But in the end, volunteer his own life in exchange for Thea’s." 

It's an interesting theory.  I can see Oliver being willing to exchange his life for Thea, although maybe not so much if he learns she's been training in the Dark Arts with Malcolm, but I can't see him willing to volunteer his life for Malcolm because it's Thea's decision to trade hers for his, and Oliver doesn't value Malcolm's life except as Thea's bio dad.  

 

I also don't see Thea being willing to trade her life for Malcolm. She's become close to him, yes, but she's still the second most selfish person on the show and to give up her young life to save his, especially since Ra's is after him for killing 503 people, that doesn't feel like something she would do unless she was really brainwashed.

[SonofaBiscuit]

I wish I knew how to quit you, show.  But I'm afraid if I stop until things are good again, I'll be so far behind that I'll never be able to catch up.  I did a similar thing with Supernatural and now I'm like 9.5 seasons behind.  Never getting current with that one, that's for sure :(

 

I'm hoping maybe the EPs will adjust the trajectory once they receive feedback.  Ha, who am I kidding?  That's totally never going to happen.  If they didn't get the memo after season two, they aren't going to get it now.  I feel like this entire season is going to be a bust.

 

ETA:  I just re-read my post, and I realize it sounds like I quit Supernatural because I didn't like it.  That's not the case, it's just that I was like two seasons behind and I intended to catch up but I never did, so now I'm seriously 9.5 seasons behind.  The half season I saw was good...don't know how things went from there, though.

Edited November 10, 2014 by SonofaBiscuit

[ohjoy]

I wish I knew how to quit you, show.  But I'm afraid if I stop until things are good again, I'll be so far behind that I'll never be able to catch up.  I did a similar thing with Supernatural and now I'm like 9.5 seasons behind.  Never getting current with that one, that's for sure :(

That is exactly how I feel. (It's only like 2.5 seasons of SPN for me, but that means there are years of my life I'll never get back.) I don't want to be stuck in the same boat with Arrow, hanging on after all my friends have logically checked out, begging at the tv in vain for the show to return to some semblance of its former glory so that I can justify the fact that I still care. Sigh.

 

My fear is that I don't have enough room on my DVR to let this entire season sit until I'm assured that the show turns out well enough to watch again. That may be the true reason I keep hoping and (foolish) hope that we get the pleasantest of surprises and Oliver/Felicity/Diggle's contrived isolations come to an abrupt and permanent end sometime in January.

[Genki]

It's like the audience is Felicity and the show is Oliver.

They gave us a summer full of teasing and flirting, a great first episode and then snatched it away in the last 2 mins.

And now they are dangling maybes at us...unfortunately Felicity is stronger than me and can walk away.

Let's hope hope the show (and Oliver) finds it's identity before the end of the season.

[Password]

Jeez your post is unbelievably on point. Felicity's strength to walk away from the potential train crash is something some of us need desperately.

[Angel12d]

From spoiler thread:

 

I really want someone to ask if we are getting any Quentin/Felicity or Thea/Felicity scenes. 

 

I'm desperate for some Quentin scenes that don't involve Laurel. He was much more involved in the action last season which made me like his character more. I liked his little dynamic with Felicity too, like he was intrigued by her and wanted to figure her out.

 

I know it won't happen but I hope we get a scene where Quentin gets suspicious that he still hasn't heard from Sara yet and he eventually phones Felicity to ask if she's heard from her. Felicity doesn't say anything but she goes to Laurel and says 'Your father has been asking about Sara' and is worried about her or whatever and hopefully it spurs Laurel on to tell him the truth. Because if Quentin does start to wonder, the worrying and not knowing where she is, not hearing from her, is just as bad for his health as telling him Sara's dead. 

 

And then when he does find out I want him to join in hunt for her killer.

[Chaser]

It would make total sense for Quentin to go to Felicity/Arrow about his concerns for Sara. I'm kinda surprised that he hasn't already.

[DrSpaceman10]

I wonder if Ray and Oliver are ever going to have any scenes together again? I thought he was supposed to be a personal/professional rival of Oliver's (as per the casting description) but aside from the premiere, they haven't even acknowledged each other. 

Also, during the filming of 3x09, SA said he hadn't had any scenes with Ray since 3x01

[Angel12d]

I wonder if Ray and Oliver are ever going to have any scenes together again? I thought he was supposed to be a personal/professional rival of Oliver's (as per the casting description) but aside from the premiere, they haven't even acknowledged each other. 

Also, during the filming of 3x09, SA said he hadn't had any scenes with Ray since 3x01

 

I know, it doesn't make any sense. If anything he's there just for Felicity reasons. I suppose he'll become a professional rival when Oliver suddenly decides he wants to be Oliver Queen and maybe fights to get his company back? I assume that will happen later in the season. 

 

And SA saying he hasn't had any scenes with BR yet pretty much destroys my theory that Oliver goes to QC in 307 because Ray wants to tell him about the company name change. So he's obviously going to QC to see Felicity specifically. I wonder if it's because of Cupid and he's worried about her safety? Who knows.

 

Sorry, is this in the right thread? I'm getting all confused at what I'm responding to. I don't know!

Edited November 11, 2014 by Angel12d

[JenMcSnark]

Quick question how old was Oliver when he fathered his kid and Moira paid his babymama to get lost?

 

Hey!  Wouldn't it be fun if that little kid, (Taylor Lautner I think his name was?), was really Oliver's lovechild and that's why he chose to protect him over helping Diggle?  Maybe he was adopted out by the babymama.  Just watching that episode and the kid kind of looks like Oliver and is 7 I think.  I guess I just felt like wildly speculating. 

 

Moving on...nothing to see here.  :-)

[statsgirl]

I think it was just before he got on the boat.  Moira assumed that it was Laurel who was pregnant when he first told her.  So that would make his kid 6 now since it's been 7 years since the Queen's Gambit sank.