S05.E14: The Box

[sonyab]

Oh Jake!! YOU DID IT! I am so proud of you!! WOOT WOOT!!!! *clap*

On 4/1/2018 at 9:09 PM, Dots And Stripes said:

Jake's singing was my favorite interrogation technique. 

HAHAHAHA! That cracked me up!!!! :)

[Irlandesa]

5 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Kyle Secor playing Holt's former cop partner (or romantic partner)!  It practically writes itself!

Both.  Kevin and Peralta can have a "Jealous-off" over this former partner/lover.

2 hours ago, biakbiak said:

The episode Three Men and Adena aired 25 years ago on a program that was usually last in the ratings so I imagine the writers didn't expect most people to be familiar with it. 

Yes.  Without the Pembleton/HLOtS reference, it's still a send up of interrogation scenes which weren't exclusive to Homicide.  That show just happened to do a great one. 

I don't think one would need to know about that episode, Andre's past role or Sterling K Brown to enjoy this episode; however, I can see how knowing about those things could make a viewer appreciate it more which might be the extra push other viewers would need.

[meep.meep]

If you knew the connection, you did.  It wasn't needed to enjoy the episode.  The two cases were completely different.  One was the murder of a young girl, this was the murder of a grown man.

And then the bear......

[bethy]

This was a great episode, but I have to admit I have a hard time processing Sterling K. Brown as anyone other than Gordon Walker from Supernatural. 

Edited April 4, 2018 by bethy

[SHD]

7 hours ago, biakbiak said:

The episode Three Men and Adena aired 25 years ago on a program that was usually last in the ratings so I imagine the writers didn't expect most people to be familiar with it. 

As others said, that's probably true. But it was a nice nod to "Homicide" fans. As soon as I saw that the episode title was "The Box" I was hoping they were going for that connection. I was such a huge fan of "Homicide" that even though I couldn't tell you what I had for lunch yesterday, to this day I remember the name Adena Watson.

[romantic idiot]

They do off format a lot, and mostly with Jake and Holt. To be honest I didn't notice till almost the end that the rest of the guys weren't in it - I was that engrossed. Had I been thinking at all, would have figured this to be a showcase for Jake/Holt and not SKB. 

[scrambled eggs]

On 4/1/2018 at 6:10 PM, hendersonrocks said:

That was lovely. I didn’t totally buy the confession, but lovely nonetheless. They might as well etch Sterling K. Brown’s name on the guest star Emmy right now.

He could compete against himself if he gets nominated for SNL. SKB absolutely deserves it for "The Box," but I fully expect it to go to an SNL host or one of Will and Grace's nine billion guest stars. 

I had been looking forward to this episode since I first heard about it, because of the Homicide connections and because of the guest star. It did not disappoint. Loved seeing Jake actually get angry--it's so rare and was used really effectively (dammit, he did not look like a Muppet!). Come on Emmys, give this episode some love. 

Edited April 4, 2018 by scrambled eggs

[possibilities]

16 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Kevin and Peralta can have a "Jealous-off" over this former partner/lover.

Maybe Secor can be Kevin's ex, and Holt can be jealous. I think a jealous Holt would be petulant and mortifying in a way Braugher could do a lot with.

[DXD526]

And, later, in the Homicide reunion movie, we find out Bayliss killed the Arabber out of frustration

Actually, it wasn't the Arabber that Bayliss knocked off, it was a different killer, several seasons later. Through an obituary, the squad discovered that the Arabber had died at home, peacefully, in his bed, which enraged Bayliss. 

I liked how Jake kept asking SKB if he did it, a nice callback "Three Men and Adena". The detectives occasionally, during the long questioning process, would throw in a quick "Did you kill Adena?", hoping he'd slip up, so I liked that Jake thought it was a good idea to keep asking if he did it!

[doodlebug]

27 minutes ago, DXD526 said:

And, later, in the Homicide reunion movie, we find out Bayliss killed the Arabber out of frustration

Actually, it wasn't the Arabber that Bayliss knocked off, it was a different killer, several seasons later. Through an obituary, the squad discovered that the Arabber had died at home, peacefully, in his bed, which enraged Bayliss. 

I liked how Jake kept asking SKB if he did it, a nice callback "Three Men and Adena". The detectives occasionally, during the long questioning process, would throw in a quick "Did you kill Adena?", hoping he'd slip up, so I liked that Jake thought it was a good idea to keep asking if he did it!

OK, thanks for the clarification.  I just remember that the Arabber was the case that drove Bayliss to turn to murder to get justice.

[Ray Adverb]

It was pretty good for a bottle episode, but I couldn't get past how utterly stupid the perpetrator was.  He had literally nothing to gain and everything to lose from going to that interrogation room.  I guess there wouldn't be an episode without it, but the whole time I was thinking "SHUT THE HELL UP AND GO HOME".  It boggles my mind that anyone ever confesses to a crime.  I can understand if someone is too naive to know his rights, but this guy was very smart and well educated.

[MrWhyt]

23 minutes ago, RayAdverb said:

It was pretty good for a bottle episode, but I couldn't get past how utterly stupid the perpetrator was.  He had literally nothing to gain and everything to lose from going to that interrogation room.  I guess there wouldn't be an episode without it, but the whole time I was thinking "SHUT THE HELL UP AND GO HOME".  It boggles my mind that anyone ever confesses to a crime.  I can understand if someone is too naive to know his rights, but this guy was very smart and well educated.

and full of hubris

[peeayebee]

Right. He thought he was smarter than them and would spend his time frustrating them and humiliating them. 

[meep.meep]

29 minutes ago, MrWhyt said:

and full of hubris

a great sex tape name!

[dusang]

Finally watched - I love them so much!!!

ETA: I was going to elaborate, point to specific moments that were delightful, but really every moment was delightful -- Jake and Holt are the best and I love the development of their relationship from the "meep-morp robot" moment of the first episode to the mutual respect and admiration of this one.  I loved every moment of this episode, from Jake making the interrogation room as uncomfortable as possible through to Jake and Holt going back into the office after pulling an all-nighter (although, if I were them I still would have been like, "I'm outie, bye!").

Edited April 5, 2018 by dusang

[Danny Franks]

This was a really cool concept for an episode, and one that showed just how confident everyone involved in this show is, now. A whole episode of two characters interrogating a third, with no other storyline? I've never seen serious procedurals have the balls to do it.

Jake playing dumb cop was great... and also not that far from normal Jake. Holt's strategic thinking paid and the progression of it was great as well. Working through ideas, setting the suspect up for one line of questioning, then another, antagonising him over his choice of careers... which in turn backfired when Holt's doctor prejudice showed.

And I was rolling when they called back Jake's 'guitar and shriek' technique from season 1.

The guest star was really good as well (I assume he's well known, but I've never seen him before), and the three of them developed a nice rhythm, and I enjoyed him turning the tables on Jake and Holt. I imagine this episode was great fun to shoot.

Then they go from the farce of the interrogation into the real feels of Jake wanting to prove himself to Holt. But honestly, I didn't buy the ending. They hadn't quite set up the 'this guy always has to be right, and smarter than everyone' well enough to make his outburst work.

"I imagine the bear mistook the rotting corpse for a female of its species and had intercourse with it. Nothing I haven't seen before."

"It isn't?!"

Heh.

[Loandbehold]

9 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

"I imagine the bear mistook the rotting corpse for a female of its species and had intercourse with it. Nothing I haven't seen before."

"It isn't?!"

We are so due for another Raymond Holt ("H-O-L-T") flashback.

[laserlady]

11 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

But honestly, I didn't buy the ending. They hadn't quite set up the 'this guy always has to be right, and smarter than everyone' well enough to make his outburst work.

Re-watching the episode, I thought they did a good job dropping little hints about this aspect of his character.  For instance, when Jake says that most people thought Great Tiger was impossible to get past on Mike Tyson's Punch-Out -- in a comment that wasn't even really directed at the dentist -- the dentist feels the need to jump in and smugly say, "I beat him every time.  You just punch him when he gets dizzy."  Also, the most effective interrogation technique they tried, up until the end, was when Captain Holt was making fun of dentists and saying that they're not real doctors.  It was clear that the dentist really disliked having his degree mocked and de-valued.

[Captain Stable]

I've never watched Homicide: LotS, nor even realised Holt was in that, but I LOVED that episode!
About halfway through I realised they were leaving it late for introducing a second plotline and realised they had piled it all into this one. 

That was great. IMO, of course :)

[Kel Varnsen]

On 4/4/2018 at 11:11 AM, DXD526 said:

And, later, in the Homicide reunion movie, we find out Bayliss killed the Arabber out of frustration

Actually, it wasn't the Arabber that Bayliss knocked off, it was a different killer, several seasons later. Through an obituary, the squad discovered that the Arabber had died at home, peacefully, in his bed, which enraged Bayliss. 

The killer that Bayliss killed was the guy from the very last episode who walks free on some technicality. Bayliss kills him in that episode then in the H:LOTS movie he confesses to Pemberton who turns him in. They never said who killed Adena, and I read somewhere they did that out of respect for the real victim since the story was based on a real little girl who was murdered in Baltimore and was part of David Simon's book.

 

4 hours ago, laserlady said:

For instance, when Jake says that most people thought Great Tiger was impossible to get past on Mike Tyson's Punch-Out -- in a comment that wasn't even really directed at the dentist -- the dentist feels the need to jump in and smugly say, "I beat him every time.  You just punch him when he gets dizzy." 

Except it is not as simple as just waiting for him to get dizzy. Before that happens he does like an 8 punch spin attack and you have to block each one.

[blondiec0332]

On ‎4‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 11:49 AM, peeayebee said:

I wish I had watch Homicide when it was on -- it doesn't stream anywhere either :(. I did watch one ep I had read about before it aired, where Vincent D'Onofrio plays a guy who is pinned betw two subway cars. If they're moved, he's going to die immediately. I can't quite remember the story line. Anyway, that was very good.

Some episodes are on youtube.

[jhlipton]

On 4/1/2018 at 8:24 PM, MrWhyt said:

the murder wasn't the story, the interrogation was.

Absolutely.

On 4/3/2018 at 11:29 AM, iMonrey said:

So this episode really relied a lot on people knowing who the guest star was and what the episode was sort of a homage to.

Not for me.  I know who SK  Brown is (largely through This Is Us) but didn't recognize him; and I loved H:LotS but didn't see the homage until I read this thread, but I still thought that this one one of their best episodes.  Different strokes for different folks.

[Rinaldo]

Same here. I feel thoroughly stupid, because I even read in one of the topics here that Sterling K. Brown was to be a guest star, and I should recognize him, having seen several episodes of This Is Us. But in fact I didn't recognize him (I often fail to recognize favorite actors in new roles, it's embarrassing), and I never thought to wonder who was playing the suspect, I just got absorbed in the episode and how good it was. 

[possibilities]

I don't get why it would matter if people know who the actor is, in order to enjoy the episode. It's not like the jokes were turning on something about Sterling K. Brown himself.

Edited April 8, 2018 by possibilities

[jhlipton]

10 hours ago, possibilities said:

I don't get why it would matter if people know who the actor is, in order to enjoy the episode. It's not like the jokes were turning on something about Sterling K. Brown himself.

True, although know about Three Men and Adina helps.

[Inquisitionist]

I'm way behind so finally watched this episode last night.  A line that cracked me up but that I haven't seen mentioned here is Holt reacting to something positive by saying "Well, hello Dolly."  I can't explain why, but that had my husband and me laughing well into the commercial break.  Just priceless.  Give Andre Braugher all the Emmys already.

On ‎4‎/‎3‎/‎2018 at 3:52 AM, thuganomics85 said:

(with that show fresh in my mind again, could this show please get Kyle Secor to guest before it ends, whenever that might be.) 

Yes, yes, YES!  There must be some way to write him into the last season.

[Inquisitionist]

On ‎4‎/‎2‎/‎2018 at 8:57 AM, BoogieBurns said:

They say that Sterling's Emmy acceptance speech is what made the writers/producers reach out to him for this episode. He said he can't believe he won the same award that Andre Braugher won for Homicide: Life On The Street. This episode above, was mentioned by someone as a perfect episode to pay homage to with Sterling and Andre. Basically, Sterling got to act alongside Andre in Homicide: Brooklyn 99 edition.

Here's a clip of SKB's Emmy acceptance.  He also mentions Walter White and Dick Whitman, but not the actors who played them.  Nice touch that Chief Wuntch was one of the presenters.

On ‎4‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 1:51 PM, Loandbehold said:

We are so due for another Raymond Holt ("H-O-L-T") flashback.

Ha, I see what you did there.  ;-)

[Sharna Pax]

On 4/3/2018 at 4:10 PM, meep.meep said:

And then the bear......

...says, "You didn't come here to hunt, did you?"*

I just watched this episode - I've gotten behind on B99, and then I realized there was a Homicide, Life on the Street tribute episode, and I dropped everything and watched it instantly. I love how, while clearly being a ridiculous episode of B99, it actually follows the structure of "Three Men and Adena" pretty closely. In "Three Men and Adena," there's a moment where the suspect turns the interrogation around and starts needling the detectives about their insecurities. I love that this translates to Jake needing to go to the dentist and Holt flipping out about the value of a Ph.D.

*(For those who didn't watch Homicide, that's the punchline to Lewis's favorite joke. You only ever hear the punchline, not the joke itself, presumably because it was too dirty for network TV.)

[Sandman]

On 4/1/2018 at 8:01 PM, Roaster said:

I kept thinking of those great TV scenes from 20 years ago where Frank Pembleton would break a suspect in the interrogation room.

I imagined that we were meant to think of the episode that way -- even the episode title seemed to be a tribute to Braugher's former series, as I don't recall the Nine-Nine ever referring to their interrogation room that way. But I take biakbiak's point above that Homicide's ratings history might suggest that a majority of this show's audience would not be that familiar with it.

 

On 4/5/2018 at 4:05 AM, Danny Franks said:

But honestly, I didn't buy the ending. They hadn't quite set up the 'this guy always has to be right, and smarter than everyone' well enough to make his outburst work.

Honestly, I'd agree with you, except that when I went back and re-watched the episode (which I did right away), what stood out even more was the little smirk on the guy's face when he thanks Gina just before the officer escorts him to the interrogation room. It was enough to convince me that this guy needed his moment of proving how smart he was. He was looking forward to toying with the police.