S01.E08: Terror Camp Clear

[formerlyfreedom]

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Deaths under mysterious circumstances create paranoia among the men, and some of the crew may be considering mutiny.

 

[formerlyfreedom]

A reminder; this topic is to discuss the episode. To discuss the book, or the actual historical events, please visit The True Story of the Franklin Expedition topic. Posts that are off topic here will be removed.

[SimoneS]

I made it through the episode! I honestly didn't think that I could and am not sure that I can make it through the last two upcoming episodes. 

James was so freaking brave. Damn, they came so close to getting rid by that piece of shit. The poor Inuit, savagely and brutally murdered. I am glad that both Francis and James were skeptical from the start. I know it is horrible, but they should have taken their furs.  I cannot believe that the men were actually listening to that piece of shit and were planning to leave the others. They really have lost their damn minds. I hope that piece of shit guts them all as they deserve before the end.

Collins wandering the camp high as hell would have been funny if it wasn't so sad.

Oh Goodsir, you should have gone with her, not try to convince her to stay. I think any safety from the spirit bear that they had ended when she left the camp.

[patty1h]

So many questions:  Who or what killed the Eski folk?   Was it supposedly Hickey - how could he murder that many people?  Was it supposed to have been that other team of three who split off?  But I didn't see any blood from them getting shot nor trauma to suggest that the bear got them.... very confused.  Gotta say that CGI creature is very badly rendered and not scary.  Sayonara, Collins... but what was that effect on his face as he was getting mauled?

Was Hickey telling the truth about Crozier - was he going to ditch the crew?

[Ohwell]

I've tried to hang in with this show, not understanding half of what's being said, not being able to tell one guy from the other, and reading this forum to find out what the hell was going on.  But that piece of shit Hickey managing to escape the noose was just too much.  I don't know what happened to him in real life, but I just cannot take this show anymore. 

Even though there are only two more episodes,  I'm out now.  Basta!  

Edited May 8, 2018 by Ohwell

[raven]

3 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I am glad that both Francis and James were skeptical from the start. I know it is horrible, but they should have taken their furs. 

I agree, it's time to be practical and they need those furs.

The Hickeyites are getting on my nerves.

Fitzjames staring down the bear with rockets, Blanky hopping around and Crozier in command were all badass.   Those sores on Fitzjames looked awful.

[SimoneS]

I also loved how Goodsir was pleased to perform the autopsy after seeing the piece of shit's victims and then hid from the mutineers when they were looking to snatch him and take him with them. He is such a good man. 

The spirit bear ran off so I guess it will be back to finish the job. I thought that ceremony gave the Inuit woman control over the magic bear, but I guess not. I can't believe that she would let it attack the camp, endangering Goodsir who has been so good to her.

At least, the mutineers are gone. I can't help hoping that this gives the rest of the men a better chance to survive. 

[Lamima]

17 minutes ago, patty1h said:

So many questions:  Who or what killed the Eski folk?   Was it supposedly Hickey - how could he murder that many people?  Was it supposed to have been that other team of three who split off?  But I didn't see any blood from them getting shot nor trauma to suggest that the bear got them.... very confused.  Gotta say that CGI creature is very badly rendered and not scary.  Sayonara, Collins... but what was that effect on his face as he was getting mauled?

Was Hickey telling the truth about Crozier - was he going to ditch the crew?

So Hickey told the other party of 3 that the Eski killed those two that we saw Hickey kill last week. So the party of 3 shot the Eski. There were some wounds on the Eski.

Don't know what was the effect on Collins' face as the bear mauled him. 

I don't think Hickey is telling the truth about Crozier. I can't remember him saying any such thing. Maybe he said something and Hickey was using his words out of context.

The bear...maybe Lady Silence being at camp kept the bear away. And maybe she was happy to leave camp so the bear would go there now and she'd get justice for the murders of her Eski friends. Guessing any warm fuzzies she felt for Goodsir went away when she saw the dead little Eski girl. Luckily our boy, Goodsir, is keeping himself safe. I wish he had gone with Lady Silence.

[Crone]

I loved the first scene with Crozier hearing Fitzjames’ confession. The English are(were?) really hung up on their caste system, so it meant a lot for Fitzjames to confide the circumstances of his birth. Baring all to Crozier, his physical deterioration, and bravely shooting rockets at the bear- Fitzjames has nothing left to lose. 

Great acting, good story, but I hated the stupid-looking bear. 

[Paws]

14 minutes ago, Crone said:

I loved the first scene with Crozier hearing Fitzjames’ confession. The English are(were?) really hung up on their caste system, so it meant a lot for Fitzjames to confide the circumstances of his birth. Baring all to Crozier, his physical deterioration, and bravely shooting rockets at the bear- Fitzjames has nothing left to lose. 

Great acting, good story, but I hated the stupid-looking bear. 

Yes! I just loved him too his episode. So brave, so sick, so handsome. His bonding w Crozier has been one of the few bright spots amidst all the horror and despair.  

I knew hickey would get away. Goddammit.

[SimoneS]

18 hours ago, Crone said:

I loved the first scene with Crozier hearing Fitzjames’ confession. The English are(were?) really hung up on their caste system, so it meant a lot for Fitzjames to confide the circumstances of his birth. Baring all to Crozier, his physical deterioration, and bravely shooting rockets at the bear- Fitzjames has nothing left to lose. 

You are right. James confiding his illness, fears, and the circumstances of his birth to Francis was touching. Watching their bond grow and strengthen under these dire circumstances has been moving. James could have gone the other way and let his antagonism and resentment grow. It is a testament to his fine character that instead he has become a good friend and loyal second in command to Francis. Toby Menzies and Jared Harris were stellar in that confessional scene.

Edited May 8, 2018 by SimoneS

[tennisgurl]

Damn it, we almost got rid of that little slimeball! I need Hickey to die, hanging is too good for the smug little shit. Maybe he can get half eaten by the ice monster, and then left, still alive, on the ice to freeze? Or everyone gets to kick him a few times? I just hate him and his nasty, murder happy, treacherous ass. I dont believe a thing he said about Crozier. Freaking ice monster, we almost got rid of him!

Crozier and James bonding and becoming friends and comrades in arms has been such a lovely ray of happy in the bleakness that is this show. James was so clearly resentful towards him at first, but he could tell that Crozier was a good man to have in a crisis, and eventually they came to respect, and then like each other. James trusting Crozier with his illness and him being born out of wedlock was such a huge deal (especially for the time!), and Crozier just seemed to appreciate being trusted. I wonder if James thought that Crozier would especially understand his angst about the circumstances around his birth, being as Crozier has been discriminated against for his background as well? 

And shooting rockets at the monster was badass as hell. And Crozier got some great shots out when he was chasing the mutineers around during the attack. 

Goodsir is such a lovely person, I so wanted him to leave with Lady Silence. This is not going to go well for him, I can already tell. He was so eager to help get justice for the people who were killed, and handled things so well. 

The speech Crozier gave when he started in on Hickey at the pop up gallows was super well acted. I also love when he was issuing orders, he ended on "and get the carpenters, I've got some hanging to do". 

[SimoneS]

The only comfort I got from that episode is that my favorites are still alive; Francis, James, Jopson, Goodsir, and Blanky.

[islandgal140]

I feel this episode could be summed up in two words: FUCKING HICKEY!!!

[LittleIggy]

I was yelling “Just go ahead and hang him” when Hickey started his bs speech. Crozier did write a letter of resignation before Sir John was killed, but he wasn’t going to abandon them. He was going to take men and go for help.

I like that so many guys volunteered to “man the rope.” Hickey would have been slowly strangled to death since it wasn’t a drop hanging. I would have enjoyed that!

[Paws]

57 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

The only comfort I got from that episode is that my favorites are still alive; Francis, James, Jopson, Goodsir, and Blanky.

I freaking love Blanky. He’s solid, he’s smart, he’s funny, and he even outwitted the beast. He’s probably the best all around man on the ship.

[thuganomics85]

Dammit, bear!  Couldn't you wait and let them hang Hickey first, before you barge in and fuck shit up?!  Then again, I can totally understand if even the bear was tired of Hickey's blabbering and was like "Enough of this shit!"  Definitely a massacre, to say the least.  Felt bad for the Henry guy, who clearly lost his marbles and ends up getting brutally eaten alive.

While it sucks that Hickey and his mutineers got away, at least they'll hopefully won't be terrorizing the folks I actually care about and, fingers crossed, they're going to end up being way over their heads, and regret the day they decided to throw in with that psychopath.

Didn't think anything would be more badass than Blanky basically being all "Yeah, I might have only one leg but I ain't hiding!", but then Fitzjames brings out the rockets!

As great as the intense moments were, part of me could have watched an entire hour of just Francis and Fitzjames bonding and discussing their backstories.  Jared Harris and Tobias Menzies are top notch talent, to put it mildly.

I knew it wasn't going to happen, but I was really hoping Goodsir would run off with Lady Silence.  I really am not looking forward to when his time comes.  Or Jopson's.

The wait for these final two episodes is going to be brutal!

Edited May 9, 2018 by thuganomics85

[tennisgurl]

1 hour ago, LittleIggy said:

I like that so many guys volunteered to “man the rope.” Hickey would have been slowly strangled to death since it wasn’t a drop hanging. I would have enjoyed that!

That was great! They had so many guys volunteering to kill Hickey, I thought Crozier was going to have to start a raffle!

[Dowel Jones]

4 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I know it is horrible, but they should have taken their furs.

In this circumstance, that might have caused more problems than it would solve.  Since Lady Silence was right there with them, she might have interpreted it as a complete disrespect of her dead, and maybe that the sailors actually believed that the victims were indeed the marauders.  This she would communicate to the rest of her people, and the sailors, at the very least, would receive no help whatsoever from them. 

I am curious about one thing.  They are so far north (King William island is 69 deg. north latitude) that magnetic compasses would be virtually useless.  How did they navigate on featureless terrain so that they would know they are still headed south?

[slothgirl]

8 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

I am curious about one thing.  They are so far north (King William island is 69 deg. north latitude) that magnetic compasses would be virtually useless.  How did they navigate on featureless terrain so that they would know they are still headed south?

Sun? Stars?

[Sighed I]

Boy, that got my heart thumping! We got so close to getting rid of that lying murderer only for Tuunbaq to throw a wrench in the works. :( If he was going to take out so many of the men, why couldn't he get some of the mutineers? I don't know if Lady Silence herself had anything to do with unleashing the creature, but I'm willing to bet murdering five Netsilik people would be enough to piss him off all on its own.

I hope Crozier's group doesn't cross paths with Hickey's, but seeing as they're all heading south, I think another showdown is inevitable. I'm worried about Jopson. I think Hickey has him in his sights now.

One of the things that really drives me nuts about Hickey is the way he uses half-truths. He quotes from Crozier's resignation letter (with a little mock accent thrown in, the bigoted prick) completely out of context. I hope the moment comes when the other mutineers realize Crozier was right about Hickey and they threw in their lot with the wrong man.

Poor Collins. I hope he was high enough not to feel too much pain. I wonder if that thing we saw with his face was his spirit leaving his body or something along those lines; perhaps Tuunbaq is a "soul collector". I think Tozer saw it too; I wonder how that will play out with him later?

Even if it was all for naught, I'm glad Crozier and the others figured out Hickey was lying and were able to prove it too. I knew he, Blanky and Fitzjames would be skeptical, but under the circumstances and considering the men's prejudices, they needed proof. At least now the rest of the men, the ones who didn't desert, know he can't be trusted.

Poor Mr. Diggle the cook got kidnapped. I'm relieved Goodsir had the state of mind to realize he was a hot commodity and eluded his would-be captors; I wonder if they took Bridgens instead?

James' confessional to Francis got me all choked up. In the first episode, he tells Sir John, "One look from (Francis) and I have to remind myself I'm not a fraud." Now we know the judgement he saw in Francis' eyes was actually a reflection of his own self-judgement. It's so heartbreaking to see these men drop the masks, to be so real and vulnerable with each other, knowing they won't find their way home. I think about the real men this story is based on and wonder what stories and secrets they shared; it makes me sad that we'll never know.

I did love seeing James facing down the creature with the rockets, and Blanky hauling ass; I never would've imagined someone with a wooden leg could move so fast!

[Sighed I]

Goodsir did get away, didn't he? I just read a recap which stated the mutineers took him, but it looked to me like he eluded capture.

One thing I've noticed in a lot of the recaps I've been reading for this show is the writers misidentify one or more of the characters (understandable; it took me multiple viewings and a couple of visits to imdb to sort them all out). I suppose it could be one of those instances here. I will have to pay close attention to that scene on the rewatch tomorrow.

[SimoneS]

14 hours ago, Sighed I said:

I hope Crozier's group doesn't cross paths with Hickey's, but seeing as they're all heading south, I think another showdown is inevitable. I'm worried about Jopson. I think Hickey has him in his sights now. 

I loved how Jopson dismissed him in that scene, but it doesn't bode well. Since we have two more episodes, I think that you are right that another confrontation in in the cards. The mutineers are bound to turn on each other as they run out of supplies and then target Francis' group as last resort.

 

13 hours ago, Sighed I said:

Goodsir did get away, didn't he? I just read a recap which stated the mutineers took him, but it looked to me like he eluded capture.

Yes, Goodsir eluded capture. He heard them say to grab him so he ducked into one of the tents and hid. I didn't realize that they got Diggle. So much was happening in that fog.

Edited May 8, 2018 by SimoneS

[zobot81]

I watched this morning and it is my least favorite episode, so far. Too predictable.  Hickey deserves the noose, but there is no way the story can afford to lose him at this point, so I never thought he would actually die.  And as soon as they decided to court-marshall him, I thought, "Here comes the bear, fellas!"  Part of the reason for that thought, is because -- much like Lady Silence -- I believe there is a connection between Hickey and the monster.  It might only be a metaphorical tie, but I have noted previously that Hickey demonstrates a rather curious disdain for the Eskimo woman, starting when she is taken onto the ship(s), and a conspicuous lack of fear for the monster.

I  suspect that Hickey is somehow spiritually responsible for the mad creature's presence, or he is the mad creature, yadda yadda.

Such is The Terror.

[shrewd.buddha]

I was glad that Hickey was found out rather quickly, proven guilty, and sentenced to hanging. 
I was disappointed with the British formality of it all, taking time to erect a gallows, allowing Hickey an opportunity to twist the truth with his 'last' words, etc. I almost thought they were going to convene a mock court. It reminded me of the British soldiers lining up in formation and waiting for a signal to fire despite being engaged in guerrilla type warfare. Yes, the formality is all well and good in some situations, but not all.

And Crozier's withheld information came back to bite him in the ass. Now he has work work doubly hard to convince the remaining men that his intentions were honorable. 

It was a given that Hickey would escape to lie and kill another day. He will most likely survive until the end. 

I suspected that the Demon Bear is connected to Lady Silence - and was reacting to the rage she felt regarding the Eski slaughter - - since Lady Silence does not have full control over the bear. 

Edited May 8, 2018 by shrewd.buddha

[AZChristian]

7 hours ago, Sighed I said:

I never would've imagined someone with a wooden leg could move so fast!

I'm thinking the bear provided some incentive for that.  LOL.

Does anyone know whether those who found the Eskimos ever saw the captain's spyglass lying next to the old man's body?  Shouldn't they have taken that back with them?  

[johanna101]

1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

I'm thinking the bear provided some incentive for that.  LOL.

Does anyone know whether those who found the Eskimos ever saw the captain's spyglass lying next to the old man's body?  Shouldn't they have taken that back with them?  

I believe they said that his possessions were found on the Eskimos and that was presented as proof that the Eskimos had attacked them and stolen their belongings.

[proserpina65]

4 hours ago, zobot81 said:

Hickey deserves the noose, but there is no way the story can afford to lose him at this point, so I never thought he would actually die. 

I think the story would do very well without him now.  He's the least interesting crew member left.

Edited to note that I find Tuunbaq to be quite scary-looking, and decided, after watching one of my cats run around like a crazy thing, that it moves like a cat.

Edited May 8, 2018 by proserpina65

[meep.meep]

10 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

I

I am curious about one thing.  They are so far north (King William island is 69 deg. north latitude) that magnetic compasses would be virtually useless.  How did they navigate on featureless terrain so that they would know they are still headed south?

Celestial navigation using a sextant.  It's still a skill taught to mariners.  My son had to prove he could do it to graduate from the maritime academy and my cousin's son at Annapolis said they had just had it added back to the curriculum recently.

It doesn't seem like the expedition included any chaplain or someone to provide spiritual guidance to the men.  Rather than letting Hickey make a speech, it would have been more regular to let him say a last confession or talk to the minister.  But they didn't have one.

[Mahamid Frauded Me]

I was elated when they found Hickey guilty of the slaughter, I was like yeah, finally...and then Winnie the poo shows up.  I was hoping a tad bit that Goodsir would follow Lady Silence and profess his love for her, although I guess any french kissing make out session would totally suck.

[SimoneS]

1 minute ago, meep.meep said:

Celestial navigation using a sextant.  It's still a skill taught to mariners.  My son had to prove he could do it to graduate from the maritime academy and my cousin's son at Annapolis said they had just had it added back to the curriculum recently.

I had heard about sextants, but didn't know how they were used. Thanks for sharing. With the recent naval accidents, I had read the Navy would be reintroducing basic seamanship to cadets.

[iMonrey]

It was really too predictable that Hickey would manage to escape because they made too much of a production out of hanging him, letting everyone talk and give speeches, etc. You just knew something was going to interrupt the proceedings - either more Eskimos or the Bear Monster - and he'd get away in the chaos.

I think this show could have done without the Bear Monster, frankly. It's a compelling enough story without a supernatural monster chasing after them. 

Quote

I've tried to hang in with this show, not understanding half of what's being said, not being able to tell one guy from the other, and reading this forum to find out what the hell was going on.  But that piece of shit Hickey managing to escape the noose was just too much.  I don't know what happened to him in real life, but I just cannot take this show anymore. 

The show's weakness has definitely been fleshing out characters beyond Crozier and Fitzjames, and one or two other crew members. That's the trouble when you have a (virtually) all-male story, and they're all dressed alike and enclosed in a confined space. It's really hard to tell everyone apart, especially with so many of them. I'm not sure how they could have fixed this, though. Name tags?

[Ohwell]

1 minute ago, iMonrey said:

It's really hard to tell everyone apart, especially with so many of them. I'm not sure how they could have fixed this, though. Name tags?

Maybe with different color hair--having more gingers and blondies?  Most of them seem to have the same dark colored hair.  Also, different builds/height would have helped.  

I've cooled off enough so that I'll probably watch the last two episodes just to finish it off.  Maybe I'll even be lucky enough to see that fucker Hickey get his due.   Being a bear snack would be much more enjoyable to watch than a hanging anyway.  In any event, I hope they wind this up and there's not another season.  

[proserpina65]

33 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Being a bear snack would be much more enjoyable to watch than a hanging anyway.

Hanging the way it was set up would've been a slow strangulation rather than a quick neck break.  Bear snack would probably be quicker.

[Ohwell]

1 minute ago, proserpina65 said:

Hanging the way it was set up would've been a slow strangulation rather than a quick neck break.  Bear snack would probably be quicker.

I don't know much about hanging but wouldn't he have passed out at some point?  Anyway, I meant that the snacking would be much more enjoyable for me to watch.   

[AZChristian]

25 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

I don't know much about hanging but wouldn't he have passed out at some point?  Anyway, I meant that the snacking would be much more enjoyable for me to watch.   

Here's an idea that I'd love to see.

Lady Silence and the bear grab Hickey and carry him off to their igloo/cave/whatever.  Every day, LS communicates telepathically with the bear to tell him what body part of Hickey the bear can gnaw off.  Let's start with his "man parts."  Then one hand / then the next.  On and on.  And between bites, LS packs the open wounds in ice so he doesn't bleed to death for a couple of weeks.

I really, really dislike Hickey.

[Ohwell]

1 minute ago, AZChristian said:

Here's an idea that I'd love to see.

Lady Silence and the bear grab Hickey and carry him off to their igloo/cave/whatever.  Every day, LS communicates telepathically with the bear to tell him what body part of Hickey the bear can gnaw off.  Let's start with his "man parts."  Then one hand / then the next.  On and on.  And between bites, LS packs the open wounds in ice so he doesn't bleed to death for a couple of weeks.

I really, really dislike Hickey.

That works for me!  Too bad the bear doesn't have any salt and pepper to shake on him.

[Sighed I]

17 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Yes, Goodsir eluded capture. He heard them say to grab him so he ducked into one of the tents and hid. I didn't realize that they got Diggle. So much was happening in that fog.

Thanks for confirming. I watched the episode later than usual last night and didn't get to watch it twice as I typically do.

11 hours ago, Mahamid Frauded Me said:

I was hoping a tad bit that Goodsir would follow Lady Silence and profess his love for her, although I guess any french kissing make out session would totally suck.

Priceless! :D

Edited May 9, 2018 by Sighed I

[Osmigo]

When Hickey was standing there in the noose giving his protracted spiel, I figured the bear would show up.  I'm getting a little disappointed in the bear. Earlier scenes, such as tearing the captain's leg off like a matchstick, and cutting that guy in half, then stacking the two pieces together, suggested some kind of really scary monster.  But every time I see it, it looks more and more like just a plain old polar bear. 

One major viewer turn-off with this kind of show is when they drag a storyline on and on and on; you keep turning back in hoping to see it resolved, but it doesn't happen, and then you lose interest.  I hope that isn't the case here.  I wanted to see Hickey hang, so we could get on with the story, but now we'll have to sit and watch more Hickey and more Hickey.

[slothgirl]

19 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I also loved how Goodsir was pleased to perform the autopsy after seeing the piece of shit's victims and then hid from the mutineers when they were looking to snatch him and take him with them. He is such a good man. 

The spirit bear ran off so I guess it will be back to finish the job. I thought that ceremony gave the Inuit woman control over the magic bear, but I guess not. I can't believe that she would let it attack the camp, endangering Goodsir who has been so good to her.

At least, the mutineers are gone. I can't help hoping that this gives the rest of the men a better chance to survive. 

From her perspective, Goodsir may not have been "good to her". In her view, he just isn't being actively bad. Nothing about his behavior to her is astonishingly good.. it's how everyone should be treating one another. He's not going above and beyond  basic human decency, and he certainly isn't as good to her as her own people probably would be. He's still part of an "alien" race that invades, pillages, kills, gets themselves into jams they can't get out of without causing problems or needing help, and he talks too much even though she doesn't understand a damn thing he says.

I hope it is cleared up in the last episodes just WHY she stayed with them. When she and Goodsir parted, she didn't look like she had much affection for him anymore beyond a casual: "Whelp... ya'll got yourselves into a pickle, and you can get yer own damn selves out of it. You're a bunch of murdering bastards and although I like you (specifically) ok, I don't trust any of you as far as I can spit... which isn't very far now that I cut out my tongue for naught". She didn't look to me like she was feeling overwhelming sorrow or deep emotion at parting from Goodsir.

I just hope they clear up just what level of control she has over the spirit beast. 

19 hours ago, Lamima said:

The bear...maybe Lady Silence being at camp kept the bear away. And maybe she was happy to leave camp so the bear would go there now and she'd get justice for the murders of her Eski friends. Guessing any warm fuzzies she felt for Goodsir went away when she saw the dead little Eski girl. Luckily our boy, Goodsir, is keeping himself safe. I wish he had gone with Lady Silence.

I've always looked at the spirit bear as a metaphor or representation. I just can't quite figure what he represents... At one point I thought it was Crozier's drunkeness. then I thought it was Hickey. Now I think it just represents the worst of man's most base self. In Ep 1, the old Eski says that the last few survivors had Tuunbaq close behind them. They can't escape their own demons

17 hours ago, Paws said:

I freaking love Blanky. He’s solid, he’s smart, he’s funny, and he even outwitted the beast. He’s probably the best all around man on the ship.

I read somewhere that in the range of potential character types that they deliberately built.. he is the Pragmatic. He makes no distinction between a whale, a shark, starvation, injury, mutiny, deadly cold, ice, and a mythical spirit bear. They are all just factors/dangers to be dealt with in a practical fashion. He responds to the spirit bear the same way he would to a normal polar bear or any other predator. He's not one for navel gazing, or deep "meaning of life" analysis of their predicament or fate. He's very knowledgeable and intelligent but not "science-y". He's not mystical or probably even superstitious, especially compared to the average seaman of the time. He's a keen observer with boatloads of common sense.

As such, it takes a lot to get him rattled, because his "I have no idea what this is or how to deal with it" type fear never gets triggered. He doesn't have to know exactly what something is to deal with it because he's good "in the moment". It makes him unique in the character line-up.

Edited May 8, 2018 by slothgirl

[Earlwoode]

22 hours ago, patty1h said:

So many questions:  Who or what killed the Eski folk?   Was it supposedly Hickey - how could he murder that many people?  Was it supposed to have been that other team of three who split off?  But I didn't see any blood from them getting shot nor trauma to suggest that the bear got them.... very confused.  Gotta say that CGI creature is very badly rendered and not scary.  Sayonara, Collins... but what was that effect on his face as he was getting mauled?

Was Hickey telling the truth about Crozier - was he going to ditch the crew?

The Marines killed them because Hickey had said they killed and mutilated Irving and the other guy.  I don't know how you missed that when one of them actually said how many of the Eskimos each of them shot and killed.  How bad an idea was it that both Captains went off on a stroll together and left the men with no one in command?  Great scene between them btw.  

I agree about the bear - totally weird and not scary.  It's also laughingly huge - he's what?  9 feet tall?  

I totally loved Hickey's speech - the man can talk up a storm and has steel balls to boot, lol.   I was hoping it wasn't his swan song - he's just so damned entertaining to watch, I would miss him if he went too soon.

I think we can now safely say the captains are not eating differently from the men given  the sores James was examining on his body.

[raven]

3 hours ago, Osmigo said:

I hope that isn't the case here.  I wanted to see Hickey hang, so we could get on with the story, but now we'll have to sit and watch more Hickey and more Hickey.

I agree; he's boring and predictable now; I can watch dumb people be manipulated on a bunch of other shows.  I wanted him to hang to shut him up.  Crozier went on a bit too long too and I LIKE Crozier.  I know he had to present all his evidence but...too long, Francis.   

Without CC I wouldn't have realized that the awesome Mr. Blanky, when told to get under cover said "Neptune's balls!  I'm coming with you!" Heh.

 

2 hours ago, slothgirl said:

I hope it is cleared up in the last episodes just WHY she stayed with them.

I wondered about this as well - was she trying to keep the bear away?  If so, why?  Did she need food from them?  I am curious about her motivation.

[AZChristian]

2 hours ago, Earlwoode said:

The Marines killed them because Hickey had said they killed and mutilated Irving and the other guy.  I don't know how you missed that when one of them actually said how many of the Eskimos each of them shot and killed.  

Actually, it was the other members of the hunting party who shot the Eskimos. Hickey told them he'd seen the Eskimos kill the two men that he had killed and mutilated. In last week's episode, the six man hunting party had split into two groups of three.

[Paws]

3 hours ago, Earlwoode said:

I think we can now safely say the captains are not eating differently from the men given  the sores James was examining on his body.

What we are seeing with James isn't the poisoning from the tinned food, but rather the lack of Vitamin C is giving him scurvy. He has petechaie around his mouth, teeth are bleeding, and his old wounds referenced in episode 1 are now opening up. This show has turned  me into a scurvy expert and what I’ve learned is that it is a really gross way to die. There’s lots of good information here: https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/01/scurvy-disease-discovery-jonathan-lamb/

[Cotypubby]

During the whole hanging scene I kept thinking “Dammit just SHUT UP already and kill him before the bear shows up!! Stop monologuing and do it already! Don’t you know that giving a long drawn out speech before someone is supposed to die will always result in that person getting away!?”

*sigh*

Hickey is a boring one-note character and I am sick of him. Same rat-faced weasely villain you find on practically every single sci-fi/horror drama! 

[Earlwoode]

1 hour ago, AZChristian said:

Actually, it was the other members of the hunting party who shot the Eskimos. Hickey told them he'd seen the Eskimos kill the two men that he had killed and mutilated. In last week's episode, the six man hunting party had split into two groups of three.

Well whatever.  Like most other people watching this, I have a great deal of difficulty identifying and naming characters.  Offhand, I can identify Crozier, Fitzjames, Hickey, Goodsir and that’s about it. Everyone else is just a mass of guys who all look alike.  It doesn’t help.that they kill them off fairly regularly before I can put a face to a name.

[Captanne]

Cotypubby, I couldn't agree with you more that Hickey is boring and awful.  I liken him to some entire seasons of Vikings' character Floki.  Just one-note, two dimensional evil.  If there is a wrong, evil, horrible decision, this kind of character will make it.  (Sometimes, as an American, I feel like I'm living through that experience first hand right now.  I had a commander in the military who was like that, may she RIP.  She was a fairly nice lady but a terrible leader.)  

Although I don't like the character and find the performance pedestrian, the actor suddenly came to life for me as he was blathering on about Crozier's attempt to leave.  (Which, honestly, I didn't remember at all.)

Question -- did the Abominable come back after they let Lady Silence return to her people? I think it did.  I find that interesting because my understanding tells me she failed as an "Abominable Shaman" but her presence seemed to keep it away.  (Or that could just be a coincidence.)  So, I guess Old Abbie likes her after all.  Aww.

One thing the non-fiction accounts make clear is that the tinned food was tainted.  Lead has now pretty much been debunked because everyone in Victorian England was marginally poisoned by lead in the water system.  The potable water in Terror and Erebus were state of the art systems and probably riddled with lead pipes.  However, non-fiction accounts also stress that the tinned food was improperly made and probably leached enough lead as well as not being boiled at a high enough heat long enough to kill off the botulism spores.  (See:  Cookman, Ice Blink, for a long, detailed analysis.)  So, these men are gutted by the food they have now been eating for years.

They are also suffering from the more "ordinary" illnesses of all these long 19th Century Discovery Missions -- scurvy for sure.  That causes the bleeding from skin openings and the rotting gums.  It's awful, easy to cure, and deadly in advanced stages.  Usually a trip would lose only one or two men and it would be to scurvy.  Never had the Royal Admiralty lost 129 men in one go.  This loss stunned the nation and the world.  Cookman compares it to "if Apollo 11 had gone to the moon with the world watching and simply disappeared on the dark side."  I add that it is an apt comparison if you add the numbers that were lost in something like MH370.

When I was leading troops in the First Gulf War (1990-1992 for airlifters) I personally experienced the strange way a group behaves when frightened, under pressure, and exhausted/hungry/thirsty.  Their "group think" hallucinations of the whistle at the armory is perfectly credible to me.  They were hearing Crozier but by that time they were so paranoid they could convince each other of anything.  

I agree with folks about this episode -- it was great until the poor CGI of the Abominable.  That's too bad because I could watch Jared Harris deliver his speech to the men from atop that milk crate over and over and over.  What a wonderful performance.  

Also, can you imagine his thoughts, "Great.  I am in the middle of "The Terror" and now I have to play Jessica Fletcher "Murder, She Wrote" -- I'm tired, my feet hurt, and I want to go home.  Sigh."

Harris is just fucking fantastic.

The BFF scene on the rocks between Crozier and Fitzjames is another keeper.

Edited May 9, 2018 by Captanne

[jnymph]

Gah!!  CGI creature aside, this was yet another intense episode, that had me wincing and so sad knowing their fates. : (  

I'm such a romantic, I'm holding out hope for "GoodSilence" .  Maybe she'll come back for him.   Or at least be there for him when he passes to the other side.  I know she didn't seem like she gave a rat's ass about him when she was walking away, but I'm going on the theory she's playing hard to get.  ; )  No judgment please. LOL  It's my only solace in this depressing saga !

I agree with everyone on the Crozier/Fitzjames bonding scene.  Just phenomenal.    Fitzjames is no Jopson, but he's bordering on Handsome in my book.

 On a side note, my dog was growling at the CGI creature when it was attacking the camp, which was amusing me to no end. (Yes, I have a dog that watches TV. )

[Captanne]

LOL, my cat Divot watches the baseball like an avid fan.  (Go, Nationals!)

As other folks have mentioned (Ohwell), the sadness in this show is so unremitting and this episode ratcheted it WAY UP -- I almost couldn't watch until the gallows scene.  The build up to the mutiny and the handing out of weapons was just so awful.  And, the terrain is so damned bleak that it really says something to prefer dense fog surrounding the camp to watching poor Crozier, Fitzjames, and etc. out on the scrag.  Mother of God, I swear I almost turned it off thinking, "I can't take this any more."

Which is a testament to the show, I think -- because that's exactly what we are supposed to be feeling.

Then The Abominable showed up and I was catapulted back into my living room with the lovely tea on the table and the cats padding around the Persian rugs.  All back to normal.  Because of bad CGI.  LOL 

Edited May 9, 2018 by Captanne

[jnymph]

2 hours ago, Captanne said:

 Mother of God, I swear I almost turned it off thinking, "I can't take this any more."

Which is a testament to the show, I think -- because that's exactly what we are supposed to be feeling.

 

I know, right ?!    It's a huge testament to the show, especially considering I'm a fairly desensitized viewer to intense TV.    But I guess considering this really happened is what's gutting me.

Honestly, I keep watching because:

A) I want to know / understand their stories and

B)  I'm holding out hope for just a tiny bit of happiness.  Just a morsel.  Pleeeeease ?!

 

eta

I have NO IDEA how I'm going to handle the final episode.   All I know is there will be tons of tissue at the ready, as I'll be sobbing like a baby.

Edited May 9, 2018 by jnymph