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ElectricBoogaloo

S03.E11: Twenty-Three

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I am all the way here for penny 2.0 and Julia... I'd take 2 Dean Foggs while were at it... And lord knows what tyoe of madness Marina will get up to... Good episode

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Just when I think this show can't get any better-it does. This episode was amazing. We managed to get just about everybody into this one (except Kady and Fenn) and set the stage for a number of twists for the finale. I was wondering what they were going to do with Penny, now that it looks like he's decided to stay in the Underworld-and they rose to the occasion-managing to create a potential Penny/Julia/Kady triangle which is going to be really interesting. Also...Marina's back...and there are TWO Joshes. Okay, there's just our Josh now but at least he has that cool coat. The stuff with BeastQuentin and Alice was just heartbreaking. And hell,we even got a new Margoism "Cock out."

Absolutely fantastic episode

10/10

Edited by Philbert
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7 minutes ago, Philbert said:

managing to create a potential Penny/Julia/Kady triangle which is going to be really interesting

No potential for me... I'm all in on Julia and mellow penny.. Never liked lady as a solo character or with penny.. So if the trade is lady for alt marina... And a str8 up penny swap with the possibility for prime penny to return somehow.. I'm all for that

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I freaking love this season, I dont want it to end. Every episode is so inventive and clever, playing with format while also keeping the plot moving. Like, this episode had a lot that doesn't really have to do with the plot (or even "our" characters) but was all so interesting and had a lot going that will probably pay off later, I still love the ride. The show has become a lot more confident this season, and in its characters. 

Quentin as The Beast was something I didn't see coming, but is now totally obvious. Quentin related to Martin Chatwin back when he was just his favorite fictional character, and the guy has always had a dark side, so I can see how a Quentin without a shade would turn into this kind of monster. And, of course, even an Evil all powerful Q would still be a dorky fanboy making Princess Bride jokes and hoarding Fillory stuff, in between murdering people and being super creepy. It was really disconcerting associating Quentin with the creepy Beast music. And, while I am not really a big fan Alice/Quentin, I did feel something for their tragic ending. Also, Beat Quentin was kind of hot, and that weirds me out.

And its pretty messed up that Julia knew that if she gave her best friend his shade and a knife, he would pretty much immediately kill himself. Not a bad plan, but still, considering Quentin has a long history of depression and suicidal thoughts, ouch. 

Mariana! Hi Marina! And a slightly cooler Josh! Well, for a bit anyway. I do love an alternate universe episode, it allows the actors to play different versions of themselves, and its a fun way to bring old characters back. And now we have a new, slightly more mellow Penny. I wonder if 23Penny will stick around, while OurPenny stays in the afterlife? I dont know how I feel about that, I love OurPenny, and I want him to join the gang. And 23Penny being in love with Julia while interacting with Kady who loves and is separated from OurPenny is going to be...awkward.

Oh lord, Ghost Margo and Elliot broke my heart. I was so excited to see first season Margo and Elliot again, but then it took about three seconds for it to go bad. Poor, poor Margo and Elliot. And Margo just has NO luck keeping that eye, does she? 

This was a pretty high angst episode, but I love that 23Alice is working with a crew of bunnies running rutabaga. "I will let Captain Hopps know". This show is so weird, even when its being dramatic, I love it. 

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Excellent episode as usual.  And as I have drank almost an entire bottle of wine I'll add even though it's a bit off topic....could they have gotten any of these writers for the X-Files so I wouldn't have had to drink almost a bottle of  wine? 

I didn't get that Julia knew Q would off himself. Did I miss that? 

In any other show a weird love square with two of the same character I'd be worried. But. I'm not. Just intrigued. Penny and Julia? Hmmm. I seriously love this show.

Now back to my wine to drink away the disappointment of my biggest/longest show love. Oh XF you break my heart so. 

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This episode could have felt like filler. After all, we weren't getting our storyline at all. I loved it, though. 

Q made a pretty creepy bad guy. 23 Penny was so sad. Margo and Eliot played their old school selves (before Filory changed them). Even our Julia got to make some amends for past wrongs.

It was jarring to see the Dean uninjured. I felt so bad for him, stuck in a loop if death and destruction. 

I found myself caring what happened, even though we knew it all got reset. I felt for Julia and Q. I thought it reset on his death, though, so how did Julia have to opportunity to bring him back? I guess the statement is still true. It ended with him dying, but he had died previously too. Timey wimey indeed. 

Despite a fairly heavy episode, there were a lot of great references (Star Wars and The Princess Bride? Are they writing this show for meeee?) and Captain Hopps the radish smuggler was the funniest thing I have heard in awhile. 

7 minutes ago, MissL said:

Excellent episode as usual.  And as I have drank almost an entire bottle of wine I'll add even though it's a bit off topic....could they have gotten any of these writers for the X-Files so I wouldn't have had to drink almost a bottle of  wine? 

I didn't get that Julia knew Q would off himself. Did I miss that? 

In any other show a weird love square with two of the same character I'd be worried. But. I'm not. Just intrigued. Penny and Julia? Hmmm. I seriously love this show.

Now back to my wine to drink away the disappointment of my biggest/longest show love. Oh XF you break my heart so. 

I mean, they have basically tried every combo except Joshlia, and a lot of them have worked. 

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This season just keeps getting better. We get Penny back! Alive! Some awkward encounters to come with Kady, but he's my favorite, so worth it!! Julia is really growing on me. She used to feel like a drag on the storyline, but she is really coming through now. This is the only show on right now that makes me stop everything I'm doing and go full immersion. The hour flies by, then I want to watch it again.

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4 hours ago, The Companion said:

I found myself caring what happened, even though we knew it all got reset. I felt for Julia and Q. I thought it reset on his death, though, so how did Julia have to opportunity to bring him back? I guess the statement is still true. It ended with him dying, but he had died previously too. Timey wimey indeed. 

I don't think the timeline gets reset, it's just that a new timeline is created every time the watch was used so from the perspective of Original Flavor Jane Chatwin, she would reset time every time Quentin died but the timelines continued on without her and a new reality would be created where she and the Dean were aware what happened. This would explain why Dean no 23 knew about the previous 22 iterations even after the Beast had slaughtered everyone including Quentin.

If each timeline was discontinued after being 'reset' they couldn't talk to Alice23 or visit Timeline 23 at all. 

So the existential problem is that no matter how often you use time travel to 'solve' a problem, it only helps one variation of people and the originals get to suffer through all the consequences up until the end of time regardless of how dark it is. Quantum branching (or at least that's what I called it when I wrote my x men fan fic exploring why time travel is not the easy fix it seems like) is a nightmare for those aware of it though a possible gold mine for clever writers. 

This episode opened up a whole new set of possibilities for the crew, team ups with alternate versions of themselves (except Quentin who would presumably be dead in every alternate timeline except this one where he was resurrected through dark magical creature deals), it also foreshadows the possibility of Julia creating a worse situation by releasing some dark magical creature/ nemesis in time for season 4 and a potential outcome where Josh turns into a werewolf and kills/infects all his friends. 

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My queen Marina is back!

I am disturbed by how hot that kiss Penny no. 23 laid on Julia was, despite the minor consent issues Marina pointed out. I'm a Kady/Penny shipper since day one so I feel very conflicted right now. I'm sure this won't complicate things at all. /s

I was hoping to see Martin Chatwin under the moths, I oddly miss the psycho killer, but I was happily shocked to see Q was the Beast.

Julia using her shade to infect Q Beast with emotions was clever and inventive. The writers are amazing when it comes to finding outside-the-box thinking to keep The Magicians fresh and twisty without ass-pulls. They even found a fun, believable way to re-introduce Marina to the mix.

The Magicians can surprise me like no other show on television.

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Penny's reaction to Julia reminding him that she wasn't the Julia who was in love with him was hilarious: "Give it time."

For the record, normally I am not a fan of stalkerish guys who say creepy things like that, but Penny23 was cracking me up as usual.

I think the lesson we learned in this episode was never to trust Marina no matter what timeline you're in!

In all seriousness, I like that they found a way to bring both Marina and a corporeal Penny back in an interesting way.

Is anyone going to tell Josh what the quickening is? Hopefully Josh learned an important lesson from Josh23 - don't have sex with werewolves!

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5 hours ago, wayne67 said:

I don't think the timeline gets reset, it's just that a new timeline is created every time the watch was used so from the perspective of Original Flavor Jane Chatwin, she would reset time every time Quentin died but the timelines continued on without her and a new reality would be created where she and the Dean were aware what happened. This would explain why Dean no 23 knew about the previous 22 iterations even after the Beast had slaughtered everyone including Quentin.

If each timeline was discontinued after being 'reset' they couldn't talk to Alice23 or visit Timeline 23 at all. 

So the existential problem is that no matter how often you use time travel to 'solve' a problem, it only helps one variation of people and the originals get to suffer through all the consequences up until the end of time regardless of how dark it is. Quantum branching (or at least that's what I called it when I wrote my x men fan fic exploring why time travel is not the easy fix it seems like) is a nightmare for those aware of it though a possible gold mine for clever writers. 

We don't know when in that timeline they are going, but it was explained as a "time loop" which seems to indicate that everything gets undone and restarted at some point (as opposed to an alternate timeline). I guess I thought that the Dean understanding each time iteration was because it was being reset (a Groundhog Day situation if you will), and therefore each timeline ceases to exist when Jane steps in. That doesn't preclude access to the timeline before the reset (presumably pending now that Q is dead dead). Does that make sense? We probably don't have enough information to really answer the question. It's similar to the question of whether or not Eliot and Q have a descendants in Fillory. Either way, it will be interesting to see what happens to characters moving between timelines and I agree that it does open up some interesting possibilities. 

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And finally... FINALLY we get some sort of answer about how they're traveling to and from Fillory - they referenced a "portal tree"! I still don't know when that happened, but maybe they realized that any reference ended up on the cutting room floor so they left at least a reference in.

And oh sadness... only 2 more episodes left. What an amazing season this has been.

I actually *liked* 23Alice, where I've pretty much despised original recipe Alice from the get-go. Eliot and Margo were heartbreaking: "I screwed it up I screwed it up I screwed it up... WHERE'S MY BAMBI!??" BeastQuentin was terrifying, sad, and funny. I've never been a huge fan of original recipe Penny, but I like 23Penny. I wonder if the cut-away from Penny taking a bite of the cupcake in the Underworld Library was the ending of that Penny's arc in the show. Poor Kady - that kid's been through some stuff, and now she loses her Penny too, and will have to watch 23Penny try to win Julia over? I never really saw the appeal of normal Penny (way too brittle for my taste, and mean just for the sake of being mean - remember how he stole Quentin's unread final Fillory manuscript back in S1 and threw it out for no reason, just because it bored him?), but this new one just oozed charm and earnestness.

Can I just say how much I love Julia now? Which is saying something because... along with Alice she was my most disliked character. But her redemption arc has been so organic - it seems that now, every time she does something good, her powers grow; and every time her powers grow, she wants to do more good. It's beautiful and so unlike S1 and S2 Julia.

This season has been so original and consistently well done. It's going to kill me to wait a whole 'nother year.

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Why didn't Josh immediately think Highlander when Josh23 talked about The Quickening?   I would bet the character watched the show as a kid.   

Plus Jason Ralph kinda reminds me of a younger Adrian Paul (from the Highlander series).  

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2 hours ago, The Companion said:

 It's similar to the question of whether or not Eliot and Q have a descendants in Fillory.

Tick!! Please, please, please let it be Tick. 

And that's still my favorite episode this season. I loved that little "timeline-that-wasnt". But that's the problem, did it really happen?

But still let it be Tick!!!

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I agree with the consensus that this season just keeps getting more and more impressive. They find ways of using plot points already established in the first two seasons and making clever use of them. My initial thought regarding Penny23 coming back to their timeline is that their Penny will be able to inhabit his body and therefore be restored to life - although I'm not sure what that does to Penny23. Maybe they merge?

Also, I thought Dean Fogg said the only person who survived the Beast in timeline 23 was Alice. So how was Penny still alive?

Quote

So the existential problem is that no matter how often you use time travel to 'solve' a problem, it only helps one variation of people and the originals get to suffer through all the consequences up until the end of time regardless of how dark it is. Quantum branching (or at least that's what I called it when I wrote my x men fan fic exploring why time travel is not the easy fix it seems like) is a nightmare for those aware of it though a possible gold mine for clever writers. 

This part confused me as well, and your explanation makes sense although it makes the situation much more disturbing. 

Quote

We don't know when in that timeline they are going, but it was explained as a "time loop" which seems to indicate that everything gets undone and restarted at some point (as opposed to an alternate timeline). I guess I thought that the Dean understanding each time iteration was because it was being reset (a Groundhog Day situation if you will), and therefore each timeline ceases to exist when Jane steps in. That doesn't preclude access to the timeline before the reset (presumably pending now that Q is dead dead). Does that make sense? We probably don't have enough information to really answer the question.

See, this is how I understood it as well so I couldn't figure out how they were able to visit Marina, Josh, etc., since presumably Jane Chatwin reset the time once Julia, Quentin, Margo and Eliot were all dead. Maybe Jane Chatwin waited awhile before resetting the timeline in 23 because Alice was still alive and trying to bring back Quentin. 

I also felt some vindication in my concern that going through the clock isn't always going to take you to present-day Fillory. I kept wondering why they weren't concerned they might be flung back in time like Eliot and Quentin were that one time, and here again, they're flung not into the past but into an alternate timeline. I seem to recall there being some reference to the "time key" being used in the clock. 

What keys have they found thus far? 1.) The illusion key 2.) The truth key 3.) the depression key 4.) the key that allowed them all to hear each other - what key am I forgetting? I don't remember a time key.

Edited by iMonrey

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2 hours ago, mammaM said:

Tick!! Please, please, please let it be Tick. 

And that's still my favorite episode this season. I loved that little "timeline-that-wasnt". But that's the problem, did it really happen?

But still let it be Tick!!!

Wouldn't that be an interesting succession problem. His claim to the throne that he clearly wants would be descendant of two kings (biological child of one, adopted of another), and he could claim that because Eliot died, his younger/alternative timeline self no longer has the claim to the title because death terminates it. I say we let the Wombat decide. I do think the timeline that wasn't was one of my favorite episodes too. 

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1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I also felt some vindication in my concern that going through the clock isn't always going to take you to present-day Fillory. I kept wondering why they weren't concerned they might be flung back in time like Eliot and Quentin were that one time, and here again, they're flung not into the past but into an alternate timeline. I seem to recall there being some reference to the "time key" being used in the clock. 

What keys have they found thus far? 1.) The illusion key 2.) The truth key 3.) the depression key 4.) the key that allowed them all to hear each other - what key am I forgetting? I don't remember a time key.

I think all of the keys make doors and take you where/when you need to go and the person behind this quest is making sure they do just that.

Just off the top of my head that I remember is the illusion key made a door in the Muntjac, the truth key made a keyhole in the clock and the depression key made some kind of door for Poppy that looked like a storeroom(I'm thinking because it wasn't meant for her to use it.) The unity key also made a door but Quentin realized that they shouldn't use it. I'm sure there's more that I can't remember right now.

Something I noted in this episode is that the key that Beast Quentin had let him see into the future even across timelines. I think it was the fairy realm key which means that in this timeline that it not only holds the fairy realm together it helps them see the future. In other words it means the fairy queen has reasons for the things she's done because she can see the future, or at least part of it.

 

ETA: I just watched the preview clip for next week and apparently the key they got from 23 was the 7th key and not the fairy realm key so the last paragraph I wrote is not right. So, I'm confused. I still think the fairy queen saw something about the future that caused her to invade Fillory.

Edited by festivus

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We don't know if the Fairy Realm key is number 6 or 7. She didn't say she had "the seventh key," she just said she had one of the keys. Since the book didn't lead them to the Future Key we can't be sure if it was meant to be found 6th or 7th. I'm still missing a key though. Illusion, Truth, Depression, Unity and now Future. They've found six - what's the sixth?

Also, that planet they keep showing that's half disintegrated and near some kind of wormhole: it definitely seems to be an establishing shot of wherever the library is. When Penny transported them there, we heard the start of their dialogue over the shot of the disintegrating planet. They've shown that about 3 times this season without explaining what it is or what it means. Apparently whatever world that library branch is on is falling apart. Is it the Neitherlands?

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I'm still missing a key though. Illusion, Truth, Depression, Unity and now Future. They've found six - what's the sixth?

The Life Key, from the Mosaic, (The Magicians wiki has a list of the keys, though it hasn't been updated with the Future one yet.)

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7 hours ago, The Companion said:

We don't know when in that timeline they are going, but it was explained as a "time loop" which seems to indicate that everything gets undone and restarted at some point (as opposed to an alternate timeline). I guess I thought that the Dean understanding each time iteration was because it was being reset (a Groundhog Day situation if you will), and therefore each timeline ceases to exist when Jane steps in. That doesn't preclude access to the timeline before the reset (presumably pending now that Q is dead dead). Does that make sense? We probably don't have enough information to really answer the question. It's similar to the question of whether or not Eliot and Q have a descendants in Fillory. Either way, it will be interesting to see what happens to characters moving between timelines and I agree that it does open up some interesting possibilities. 

Jane might consider it a time loop since from her perspective, the situation is reversed back to a point she chooses but we don't know whether that wipes the slate clean or whether an alternate timeline continues on outside her perspective. We don't really have enough information as to when she reset the 23 timeline or when Julia and Josh appeared in the 23 timeline to determine whether they went into the end stage of the time loop or after the 'reset' happened and they were left to continue on with their dark alternate timeline. 

Maybe we'll get more clarification in later episodes like we did with the Fillory clock key, it works erratically and to it's own rules that are unknown.

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1 hour ago, wayne67 said:

Jane might consider it a time loop since from her perspective, the situation is reversed back to a point she chooses but we don't know whether that wipes the slate clean or whether an alternate timeline continues on outside her perspective. We don't really have enough information as to when she reset the 23 timeline or when Julia and Josh appeared in the 23 timeline to determine whether they went into the end stage of the time loop or after the 'reset' happened and they were left to continue on with their dark alternate timeline. 

It's considered a time loop by Dean Fogg but also the Underworld when Julia and Quentin register. An other occurence is when Penny is about to enter the Poison Room, Sylvia tells him she has watched the librarians reshelve his book 39 times and calls it a time loop. Zelda (the head librarian) refers to it when she calls Margo Janet: "Actually it's Margo", her answer: "This time". She alludes to it when Penny meets her for the first time.

Edited by JonasArm
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Also? I forgot how much I love Marina. She's so deliciously awful but still likeable. I can't wait to see what she gets into next season (or maybe over the next 2 episodes).

Please, please, please make her a regular next season! And show? How about more episodes in a season? Maybe 18?

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4 hours ago, JonasArm said:

Zelda (the head librarian) refers to it when she calls Margo Janet: "Actually it's Margo", her answer: "This time". She alludes to it when Penny meets her for the first time.

Also, in the book, Margo's name was...Janet. Which to me said that the show and the books were actually two different timelines, or two different, but still connected, universes. Very intriguing stuff. 

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11 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Also, in the book, Margo's name was...Janet. Which to me said that the show and the books were actually two different timelines, or two different, but still connected, universes. Very intriguing stuff. 

I loved loved loved this. I'm in the middle of re-reading the books, so this was a "cheer out loud" moment for me.

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1 minute ago, treasaigh said:

Oh hey!  Can someone remind me of the episode in the previously with werewolf Josh?  I don't remember that.

S02e09.

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On 3/22/2018 at 1:42 PM, festivus said:

TA: I just watched the preview clip for next week and apparently the key they got from 23 was the 7th key and not the fairy realm key so the last paragraph I wrote is not right. So, I'm confused. I still think the fairy queen saw something about the future that caused her to invade Fillory.

I have faith that the writers have some end game for all the weird stuff the Fairy Queen was making Margo do.

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I love the meta references in this show so much. What would the ship name be for Julia/Josh? WickerMan is what I would go with personally; if the first names don't work then go with surnames or concepts like OUaT.

Edited by DigitalCount

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My favorite pairing portmanteau was LoVe (Logan/Veronica) on Veronica Mars. I would accuse Rob Thomas of choosing the characters names just for that, but since Logan wasn't originally intended to be a romantic interest for Veronica, I know it's just an awesome coincidence.

But Julia and Josh, I would just go with JJ since the whole point is to smush their names into something shorter.

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I hope that it never happens, thus rendering this decision unnecessary, mostly because I feel like romances are not the strong suit of this show.* I prefer when they focus on the friendships and non-romantic relationships. I would rather see more of Eliot and Margo being awesome BFFs than more Quentin/Alice drama. 

* I have enjoyed seeing the Quentin/Eliot relationship slowly evolve over three seasons though! But I think that’s due to the fact that it was mostly their growing friendship with a side of flirtation until A Life in the Day happened, which then deepened their bond.

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The Life Key, from the Mosaic, (The Magicians wiki has a list of the keys, though it hasn't been updated with the Future one yet.)

Oh! Thanks!

Now  . . . where did they get the Truth Key from (the one that lets them see Penny)? I can't remember. Honestly - there's so much going on this season I'm having trouble keeping track of it. I remember where they got the Illusion Key, the Depression Key came from Poppy, and the Unity Key came from the musical episode. 

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10 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Now  . . . where did they get the Truth Key from (the one that lets them see Penny)? I can't remember. Honestly - there's so much going on this season I'm having trouble keeping track of it. I remember where they got the Illusion Key, the Depression Key came from Poppy, and the Unity Key came from the musical episode. 

I had to think about this for a minute but then I remembered that Julia got it from the house of the woman that was enslaving the fairies. I can't remember her name, lol. There is so much going on this season.

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36 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

where did they get the Truth Key from (the one that lets them see Penny)?

Julia stole it from McAllister when Dean Fogg took her to lunch there. 

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59 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Julia stole it from McAllister when Dean Fogg took her to lunch there. 

Julia has been the ruin of the McAllister, something fierce. She took the key, freed their fairies, and for the sole survivor, she took their new ground (since they bought the school but Julia has put protections around it for McAllister not to come back).

Keep at it Jules, I can't wait to see what you're going to do to them next!

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Thanks for the help remembering where all the keys came from, everyone! Man, there is just so much going on this season. I'm totally invested so it's surprising me how much I keep forgetting, the episodes have been stellar. 

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I'm so interested in how Penny23 will work with the group now! And I have to agree with those who found his kiss with Julia really hot. (ahem.)

Poor Josh. I like that no matter what timeline he's in, his innate cowardice and weakness is something he has to struggle against every time.

And MARINA! I love Kacey Rohl, and would be delighted if this means she's back more often.

Besides, while I know Marina is awful, I did think she redeemed herself ever so slightly by immediately and compassionately attempting to help Julia after her assault by Reynard. She really did everything she could to help Julia there. I also liked her last season when she stood up to Reynard. Because she really was tough and brave there (I'll never get over the cat scene!).

So I'm hoping -- if Marina's back -- that maybe she'll continue to be a grey-hat. I think she could really add an interesting dynamic to the mix.

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On 3/23/2018 at 11:00 PM, MorganSte said:

I have faith that the writers have some end game for all the weird stuff the Fairy Queen was making Margo do.

They did. The mushroom fields that were growing new fairies in Fillory. All the things she was gathering (earth worms, etc.) were to help grow the mushrooms.

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