S02.E13: Original Sin

[thewhiteowl]

A video surfaces of the President visiting prison. A demonstration has deeper ties to the President than is at first realized.

[paigow]

Designated Survivoz

[marinw]

That was a lovely townhouse Damien was imprisoned in.

I don’t see how that Spanish Treaty was the Deus Ex Machina the Tribe needed to keep thier land.

Edited March 15, 2018 by marinw

[Katsullivan]

2 hours ago, marinw said:

They was a lovely townhouse Damien was imprisoned in.

I don’t see how that Spanish Treaty was the Deus Ex Machina the Tribe needed to keep thier land.

It's Hollywood America, where the White Hero saves the day because at its heart, underneath all history of rape and theft, slavery, colonialism and genocide America is noble and aspirational.

On a lighter note, I like the hilarious almost lampshade-hanging that the show did to explain why Kirkman has a never-before-heard-of brother.  

[shapeshifter]

27 minutes ago, Katsullivan said:

On a lighter note, I like the hilarious almost lampshade-hanging that the show did to explain why Kirkman has a never-before-heard-of brother.  

I was looking for hints of embarrassment in Kiefer's delivery of that horribly contrived exposition fairy speech. He might have choked a bit when he had to say that his dead wife's mother had decided to run off to Europe (abandoning her still grief stricken grandchildren).

[tallykat]

If you can’t be bothered to find out that Pensacola is in Escambia not Alachua County, and that it’s in the Panhandle not the Peninsula, then I’m just done with you show. 

When Kirkman said he was going to do more than make a statement regarding his prison visit, I almost thought that he was somehow going to pardon  the guy or commute his sentence or something CRAZY!  Instead he offers a weak apology.  Seriously, that was the weakest apology I’ve ever heard. “I’m sorry, my wife is dead and it just makes me a little crazy sometimes. We ok, fellow Americans?

And then his brother. That should have all been hashed out years ago. I’m not liking a president that holds a grudge. 

[oakville]

I can't take the plot of the show too seriously anymore but I enjoy watching most of the actors. The show is filmed in the city I live in , so it's fun to spot where the scenes are filmed & see Canadian actors other than Kiefer get small roles . The show has convinced me to go re watch the West Wing Series.

I was  hoping that this show would be a reboot of the West Wing & bring back some old characters from that show to help the new President.

It is frustrating that the show does not deal with the political dynamic it created of having a government wiped out & a new Congress with a large number of independent members. How would they govern? No one would have any federal government experience unless they had previously served in the govrnment.

There is no mention of a Vice President, cabinet, or what is happening in the Congress & Senate. We get an occasional Senator showing up for an episode or 2 .

I find it unbelievable that any President would allow a "sit in" right in the White House for security reasons. The Secret Service wouldn't tolerate it.

It's fun to see Maggie Q show up at the right moment to kill someone who was about to kill Secret Agent Damian.

[marinw]

11 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I was looking for hints of embarrassment in Kiefer's delivery of that horribly contrived exposition fairy speech.

Kiefer is too good an actor for that. He can keep a straight face delivering the most cringe-worthy dialogue. A skill that is not going to win him any more Emmys until and if he finds better material.

Edited March 15, 2018 by marinw

[paigow]

Only on this show can drug dealing son be the voice of reason....

[Biggie B]

I was hoping Leo would up and run off with Trey, and take his sister with him. That would kill three birds with one stone.

Lior (Lyor? what the hell is his name) apparently has tons of free time to help that kid with his essay, despite his constant proclamations that all hell is breaking loose.

Quote

I can't take the plot of the show too seriously anymore but I enjoy watching most of the actors.

Yup. Kiefer is terrific - as someone who watched every hour of '24' from the get-go, I'm a fan. I just wish he had better material. I even like the young lady who plays Emily.

[TheGreenWave]

8 hours ago, oakville said:

I find it unbelievable that any President would allow a "sit in" right in the White House for security reasons. The Secret Service wouldn't tolerate it.

Agreed!  Also, I didn't think they did West Wing tours while the President was in office - only East Wing?  And, are the press corps really allowed to walk wherever in the White House?

And, can a private party really file an injunction on an Executive Order? 

That was one eye-rolling worthy episode.

[aemom]

11 hours ago, Biggie B said:

Lior (Lyor? what the hell is his name) apparently has tons of free time to help that kid with his essay, despite his constant proclamations that all hell is breaking loose.

Lyor hired that super competant assistant so she probably does a lot for him. I loved that whole essay thing with that kid.

I was annoyed that Grandma just upped and left after her daughter dies. One would think that she would stick around to at least help the kids get through it and maybe spend some time with them.

[Destiny74]

Was that Breckin Meyer as the First Brother?  Wow.  He really cleans up well.

[Dowel Jones]

With all this hacking going on right, left, and center, can we somehow arrange for someone, anyone, to hack into the script computers and generate plots with at least some level of believeability?

Guess what, President Smarmy?  Your use of an ancient treaty between Spain and the indigenous peoples just opened up a floodgate of lawsuits by other tribes whose land had been taken by commercial development.  Perhaps rightly so (the lawsuits, that is), but that's grounds for at least three more episodes as it spreads across the nation.  

Sorry, but as soon as the two brothers got into their Tom and Dick Smothers fight, I hit the fast forward button.  I really didn't care what their grievances were, or anything about the FLOTUS foundation.

9 hours ago, TheGreenWave said:

Also, I didn't think they did West Wing tours while the President was in office - only East Wing?

And it would seem highly unlikely that a tourist would be allowed to bring in a laptop on the tour.  Did Kirkman or Lyor see to their hygiene needs, and keep them fed?  But of course!

[shapeshifter]

29 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

Sorry, but as soon as the two brothers got into their Tom and Dick Smothers fight, I hit the fast forward button

I'm sure we didn't miss anything (you FFing while I caught a minute or two of REM sleep). It was just to give an excuse for why the POTUS has a brother who we've never seen or heard of before, but who is now going to be hanging out.

[Guest]

57 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

 

With all this hacking going on right, left, and center, can we somehow arrange for someone, anyone, to hack into the script computers and generate plots with at least some level of believeability?

 

No. That would overly stretch the bounds of plausibility even for this show.

[Driad]

If a POTUS has a brother, one of them is embarrassing.  Sometimes it is the POTUS.

The difference between reality and fiction is that fiction is supposed to make sense.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Driad

[paigow]

10 hours ago, deaja said:

No. That would overly stretch the bounds of plausibility even for this show.

If it is believable...it must be fake....

[Addie1917]

On 3/15/2018 at 7:07 AM, paigow said:

Only on this show can drug dealing son be the voice of reason....

Basically sums up the episode 

[oakville]

14 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

With all this hacking going on right, left, and center, can we somehow arrange for someone, anyone, to hack into the script computers and generate plots with at least some level of believeability?

Guess what, President Smarmy?  Your use of an ancient treaty between Spain and the indigenous peoples just opened up a floodgate of lawsuits by other tribes whose land had been taken by commercial development.  Perhaps rightly so (the lawsuits, that is), but that's grounds for at least three more episodes as it spreads across the nation.  

Sorry, but as soon as the two brothers got into their Tom and Dick Smothers fight, I hit the fast forward button.  I really didn't care what their grievances were, or anything about the FLOTUS foundation.

And it would seem highly unlikely that a tourist would be allowed to bring in a laptop on the tour.  Did Kirkman or Lyor see to their hygiene needs, and keep them fed?  But of course!

You can't bring a cellphone or other electronic device  into the USA Consulate in Toronto. There is no way that a laptop would be allowed into the West Wing.

Tom's brother looks familiar. Was he in a Rom Com?

[shapeshifter]

23 minutes ago, oakville said:

Tom's brother looks familiar. Was he in a Rom Com?

He's our basic "HITG!" --perhaps most notably from Franklin and Bash.

[Destiny74]

38 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

He's our basic "HITG!" --perhaps most notably from Franklin and Bash.

Or, Clueless.  Man, I am old.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Destiny74 said:

Or, Clueless.  Man, I am old.

I’m with you. :)

 

[greyhorse]

Oh boy, this episode might be the one that finally gets me to stop watching.

I don't like how POTUS dismisses his supposed long time friends so harshly.  The former Prez who was his Secretary of State (that might have been last episode, I can't remember), Billy the architect, and the land developer that gave him his start.  Not even a handshake.  Not even any explanation.  Just "goodbye".

No way does some Indian tribe just sit in the White House hallway and be allowed to stay there.  So ridiculous.

I don't really know what's going on with this Hannah, Damien, and hacking thing.  And I don't really care to figure it out.  Just a useless tangental story line.

The only thing that felt real about the entire episode was the words that POTUS spoke when he gave his speech apologizing for his behavior.

[hoosiermommy]

I honestly don't understand the angst over the President's visit to the man who killed his wife. He didn't interfere with justice. The man was fairly tried and convicted and sentenced before the Preaident basically said "don't forget what you did."  Ooooooooh. Snap! ?

[shapeshifter]

16 hours ago, greyhorse said:

No way does some Indian tribe just sit in the White House hallway and be allowed to stay there

This could have been a really interesting and believable spin on such civil disobedience if the show wasn't otherwise being written as if the entire Congress, POTUS, Veep, and Capitol hadn't been wiped out so recently. I mean, this type of sit-in would work well (especially with Kirkman's character) as even a routine procedural trope of the show if the writers and powers that be hadn't ditched the original premise.

 

11 hours ago, hoosiermommy said:

I honestly don't understand the angst over the President's visit to the man who killed his wife. He didn't interfere with justice. The man was fairly tried and convicted and sentenced before the Preaident basically said "don't forget what you did."  Ooooooooh. Snap! ?

Ditto. And then nothing much came of it anyway, so I guess ultimately the writers agreed with us. It's sort of like it was such a nice dramatic bit that they didn't want to scrap it even though they didn't know what to do with it. Heh, I guess that could be said about the entire show, including all of Maggie Q's plots.

[thuganomics85]

Oh, shit, Breckin Meyer!  He's on the same show with Paulo Costanzo, even if they didn't share a scene, which means we're just a Seann William Scott and DJ Qualls away from a Road Trip reunion (although I'd vastly prefer an appearance from Amy Smart instead.)

Nora Zehetner!  Always enjoying seeing her, even if a lot of times it feels like she is wasted like, in this case, milking a thick Russian accent as Damien's former handler.

Anytime Maggie Q shares a scenes with the detective played by Dillion Casey, I always wonder if they reminisce about Nikita and much more fun they had on that show.

I really doubt that every single talking head in the media would be giving Kirkman shit about that video.  Sure, a sizable portion will, but I would imagine some would still defend him or at least trying to explain why he is just a wee bit off.  And even then, it's not like he's going all "I will kill you and those you love!" here.  They're acting like he's freaking Thanos or something.

Only thing I will say about the conflict involving that tribe was that for the longest time, I thought the lead lady was called "Lazy Cousins" instead of Lacy.

Apparently being a traitor actually gets you some sweet digs!

[Katsullivan]

Have Hannah Wells and Kirkman ever met?

[marinw]

1 hour ago, Katsullivan said:

Have Hannah Wells and Kirkman ever met?

"The End of the Beginning", season one. And maybe after that episode once or twice.

[nutty1]

And still no Vice President......

Am I the only one who likes Lyor?

[marinw]

8 hours ago, nutty1 said:

Am I the only one who likes Lyor?

I like him too! He's smart and funny. I liked the actor on Royal Pains as well.

Edited March 21, 2018 by marinw

[marinw]

The more I think about the Spanish Treaty, the less sense it makes. Canada and the US have a very fraught and imperfect history of respecting the letter and spirit of treaties made with indigenous people. And even if the Spanish Treaty was considered viable, the Tribe’s claim would be contested in court for years.

[Bridget]

On 3/21/2018 at 3:23 AM, marinw said:

I like him too! He's smart and funny. I liked the actor on Royal Pains as well.

Evan R. Lawson, CPA for the win!I

I cannot wait to inevitably find out Lyor's middle name, simply to be able to refer to him as Lyor _ Boone. ?

[Jordan Schmitt]

Too many small mistakes on behalf of the show producers in this episode. Not their best moment.