S02.E13: AKA Playland

[The Crazed Spruce]

Waking up in unfamiliar surroundings, Jessica once again finds herself torn between two worlds and facing an impossible choice.

[jmonique]

Not to be THAT person on the Internet, but: While Krysten Ritter is amazing, the Netflix Marvel shows are this never-ending wave of darkness. I'm kind of over it.

[kdm07]

I have a lot of thoughts. I think I'll need a rewatch before putting them down but I came away from this season with this as one of my major thoughts:

Trish...

[steelyis]

I ended up liking more characters this season than I did last season. Still love Jessica Jones in all her messed up glory. Trish was smart, driven and awesome--for half a season anyway. I was intrigued by Alisa (cool anagram aside) and her issues. The actress was amazingly unhinged, but also sympathetic. Malcolm worked better as a character, more than I imagined he could and I can't wait to see what they do with him next season.

 

Carrie Ann Moss was basically flawless and I could not take my eyes off her. Her performance makes me want to go back in time and stop my past self from ever thinking Moss was a boring, one note actor. The scene when Hogarth came home and found her place robbed--the heartbreak--the humiliation--the realization she was not cured and would die a slow, agonizing death--I felt all of it just watching those emotions translate through her eyes. I enjoyed Hogarth so much in this I caught myself looking forward to season 2 of Iron Fist because it meant Hogarth would show up. God, help me.

 

I did not care for where Trish's story arc took her, even though it made sense from a motivation standpoint. I just don't like Jessica and Trish being at odds that dark and serious. I love their relationship and I think it's the heart of the show.

 

I know the theme of this season is the abuse of power and coping as best one can with past abuse, but I didn't like Jessica equating Malus's experiments to rape. I understand what Malus did was violating on many levels, but I think the only thing that should be compared to rape is rape. Jessica could be just as outraged about what was done to her without her accusing the mad scientist who forced powers on her of being a rapist.

 

The only romance I found remotely interesting was between Hogarth and the grifter ex-nurse. Jessica and the super had zero chemistry and I don't think the actor playing him was a good one. Trish and the ex-war correspondent were dull, even though I liked the actor well enough. Trish and Malcolm had chemistry, at least they were pretty to look at when they were together, but I think a slower burn, not to mention more scenes together before the hook-up, would have worked much better.

 

Ultimately, I didn't like this season nearly as much as I liked the first season.  The second season felt too transitional and it lacked the solid plotting necessary to balance the strong emotional character beats this show does so well, and it coasted too far on that strength. The antagonist was fascinating and tragic, but she was small potatoes compared to the horrific stakes Kilgrave brought to the table as an antagonist.

[Chaos Theory]

I really enjoyed this season and thought in its own way it was better then the first.  Of course Trish would feel a certain inferiority toward Jessica and resent that Jessica doesn’t do anything with her powers without really understanding what those same powers cost her.  The same thing that bonded them crappy childhoods in season 1 is what causes strife in season 2.  Which makes a certain sense and adding both sets of mothers just added to the intensity.

 

Hogarth’s storyline was also intriguing.   Her downward spiral was fun to watch but also her pulling herself back up is something she would do because that is the person she ultimately is.

I don’t need horrific stakes to make a story.    This show has always been about the people.  Jessica and Trish's friendship was the best thing about season 1 and watching it self destruct was the best thing about season 2.  

Edited March 11, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[Sakura12]

I don't know how I feel about this season. I liked Jessica's story arc with her mother. That poor woman has been through so much bad shit that I'm surprised she's still has a will to live. Now her sister murdered her mother. I know she kind had of it coming but you had to feel for her too. The actress did a great job of making a psycho sympathetic. 

Am I supposed to care that Trish has powers? Because I hated her through most of this season and I hate so called heroes that do stupid things to get powers just to be heroes. To me a hero is someone that helps because they can not because they want the glory of being a hero. Trish is really not that different than her mother, they both want admiration and fame.  I was never that big of fan of Trish in the first season like some where, this season didn't change my mind. 

As for Jessica I wish she has more chemistry with Oscar then I'd be happier that, that was the person she decided to reach out to in the end. It does make sense with him being the only person she knows that is has never been involved in the horrible things in her life. Malcolm was involved with Killgrave and I think she would always see that in him. Malcolm going to Cheng is probably a better move for him. I also probably don't ship Jessica/Oscar since I low key ship her and Matt. I'm still holding out hope that Jessica will show up in Daredevil season 3 for an episode or two. 

Edited March 11, 2018 by Sakura12

[Eneya]

On 3/10/2018 at 10:37 AM, steelyis said:

I know the theme of this season is the abuse of power and coping as best one can with past abuse, but I didn't like Jessica equating Malus's experiments to rape. I understand what Malus did was violating on many levels, but I think the only thing that should be compared to rape is rape. Jessica could be just as outraged about what was done to her without her accusing the mad scientist who forced powers on her of being a rapist.

I am almost 100% she was referring to Kilgrave with the comment about rape, since she never used such a descriptor for anyone and anything else. Also, it would be weird if she didn't mention it, after she mentioned being controlled.

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 3/10/2018 at 2:37 AM, steelyis said:

I know the theme of this season is the abuse of power and coping as best one can with past abuse, but I didn't like Jessica equating Malus's experiments to rape. I understand what Malus did was violating on many levels, but I think the only thing that should be compared to rape is rape. Jessica could be just as outraged about what was done to her without her accusing the mad scientist who forced powers on her of being a rapist.

Malus was going out of his way to take people who couldn't consent to his experiments and messing with their bodies, sometimes killing or crippling them in the process. In the specific case of Alisa, he was sleeping with someone who had brain damage and self-control issues that, along with the power dynamics issues, make me question whether she could give real and meaningful consent to the relationship. I'd say "rapist" at least arguably fits.

That said, I agree with Eneya that the reference was to Killgrave being a rapist rather than Malus.

12 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

I don't know how I feel about this season. I liked Jessica's story arc with her mother. That poor woman has been through so much bad shit that I'm surprised she's still has a will to live. Now her sister murdered her mother. I know she kind had of it coming but you had to feel for her too. The actress did a great job of making a psycho sympathetic. 

Am I supposed to care that Trish has powers? Because I hated her through most of this season and I hate so called heroes that do stupid things to get powers just to be heroes. To me a hero is someone that helps because they can not because they want the glory of being a hero. Trish is really not that different than her mother, they both want admiration and fame.  I was never that big of fan of Trish in the first season like some where, this season didn't change my mind. 

As for Jessica I wish she has more chemistry with Oscar then I'd be happier that, that was the person she decided to reach out to in the end. It does make sense with him being the only person she knows that is has never been involved in the horrible things in her life. Malcolm was involved with Killgrave and I think she would always see that in him. Malcolm going to Cheng is probably a better move for him. I also probably don't ship Jessica/Oscar since I low key ship her and Matt. I'm still holding out hope that Jessica will show up in Daredevil season 3 for an episode or two. 

I personally can't wait to see what the extent of Trish's gifts and what she does with them. The love-hate relationship between Jessica and Trish is one of the centerpieces of the first two seasons. I love how clearly each see's the other's faults and blind spots and how they can be so supportive and yet so toxic to each other. Where do they go from here, where Trish killed Alisa? Will Trish attempt some form of redemption? Or will she turn out to be the S3 villain?

BTW, I have to call some BS on that. It is a huge stretch that being on death's door for as long as she was, Trish deduced that Jessica and Alisa might head to Playland, managed to get there as Jessica and Alisa showed up, managed to make a difficult single-shot kill of Alisa. On top of that, the angle of the shot makes it difficult to think that the cops will ultimately buy that Jessica shot Alisa. 

I like that Jessica got something in the ballpark of a happy ending by having a guy who seems to care about her and a pseudo-son who adores her. But it's bittersweet, because it obviously can't last. I just hope that Oscar and Vido are able to walk away rather than becoming collateral damage or what have you.

[Sakura12]

I think the comparison was more about consent. Experimenting on people without consent is violating their body. I think the comparison works. Malus didn't sexually assault her but he did physically assault her unconscious body. What Killgrave did was much worse since he not only sexually assaulted her, his was mental and physical as well. 

Trish would work more as a villain since she's the selfish hero not heroic one. Even the cop was more sympathetic towards Jessica not being there when they took out her mother, because no kid should see their mother killed in front of them.  Trish didn't care or even think about what that would do her "sister".  Yes, she needed to be taken out, but not like that. For me that would be unforgivable. Because all Jessica will now see his her dead mother with Trish killing her. I think the fact that she was able to get a perfect head shot is part of her powers. I just wonder if they'll make it like the comics that she got her powers from being in Hell. I'm guessing her storyline next season will be her learning that being a hero is more than just doing what you think is right, there is always collateral damage involved. 

I hope Jessica can have a little normalcy with Oscar and Vido for a little bit. I also kind of hope she takes Vido for a little flight. However he can turn into another person that will do anything to get powers like Trish.

I wonder how they were able to name drop Captain America since none of the other shows ever used names before. 

[Chaos Theory]

I think Trish's storyline is a woman being typecast as something they are not early on in life and not being able to overcome it and then having a friend, your very best friend, being everything you want to be and want to have and see them do nothing with it.  Jessica was taken seriously and admired which was something Trish never was no matter what she did people wanted Patsy.  Always Patsy.  Even her mother wanted her to be Patsy.  You resent that after awhile.    And at the same time her mother genuinely loved her and offered her a good life which is what Jessica wanted.  And yet when you think about it both mothers had alot of the same traits.  Both mothers sold their children out to dangerous people for their own needs and yet both mothers loved their children and blamed the other girl for their daughters failings.   Both Jessica and Trish both wanted what the other had and I think season 2 opened up those little wounds that are always there between even the best of friends.  I understand Trish because no matter what she tried to do......no one wanted her.   They wanted Patsy.   They wanted Jessica.   They didn't want her.  

Edited March 11, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[steelyis]

3 hours ago, Eneya said:

I am almost 100% she was referring to Kilgrave with the comment about rape, since she never used such a descriptor for anyone and anything else. Also, it would be weird if she didn't mention it, after she mentioned being controlled.

 

6 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

 

That said, I agree with Eneya that the reference was to Killgrave being a rapist rather than Malus.

 

 

Jessica called Malus a pervert at least once, held him in the same low regard as the producer who took advantage of Trish and implied he molested his patients more than once.

 

3 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

In the specific case of Alisa, he was sleeping with someone who had brain damage and self-control issues that, along with the power dynamics issues, make me question whether she could give real and meaningful consent to the relationship. I'd say "rapist" at least arguably fits.

 

 

Except there's a huge elephant in the room: Alisa's incarceration.

 

If Alisa's so brain damaged she can't make rational decisions or give informed consent, then why isn't she being treated like someone with diminished mental capacity by the legal system? If she provably has organic brain damage she is not responsible for her crimes, yet the courts and the Accords show zero acknowledgement of that fact. Even Jessica (for a time) believed her mother deserved to spend the rest of her life locked up in the Raft despite knowing Alisa was organically ill. Ironically, the only person on the show who doesn't hold her responsible for her actions is Malus. If her own daughter and the legal system believe Alisa should be held responsible for her crimes and sent to prison despite her brain damage, then I think it's disingenuous to claim she's not competent enough to decide who she wants to be in a relationship with and attributing her choice to being manipulated by a "rapist".

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, steelyis said:

Jessica called Malus a pervert at least once, held him in the same low regard as the producer who took advantage of Trish and implied he molested his patients more than once.

Except there's a huge elephant in the room: Alisa's incarceration.

If Alisa's so brain damaged she can't make rational decisions or give informed consent, then why isn't she being treated like someone with diminished mental capacity by the legal system? If she provably has organic brain damage she is not responsible for her crimes, yet the courts and the Accords show zero acknowledgement of that fact. Even Jessica (for a time) believed her mother deserved to spend the rest of her life locked up in the Raft despite knowing Alisa was organically ill. Ironically, the only person on the show who doesn't hold her responsible for her actions is Malus. If her own daughter and the legal system believe Alisa should be held responsible for her crimes and sent to prison despite her brain damage, then I think it's disingenuous to claim she's not competent enough to decide who she wants to be in a relationship with and attributing her choice to being manipulated by a "rapist".

Well, first, the ability to consent and make rational decisions in one area does not mean that one has the ability to consent and make rational decisions in all areas. Same with being unable to give consent and make rational decisions at one time versus another.

What the legal system might conclude in 2018 about how competent Alisa is with regard to standing trial for and potentially being sentenced for multiple murder is one thing. What level of independence, clarity, rationality, etc. that Alisa might have had, what, 10, 15, almost 20 years ago when it came to the man who saved her life and has her locked up in a secret facility is IMO another. 

It's pretty clear that when Alisa first was awake, she was completely out of her mind. By the time of the present, she has recovered most of her faculties, but she still is not 100 percent sane. She is calmed by Jessica and Malus and the ocean, but she can fly off into sheer rage. How far along the spectrum of rational she was when she started her relationship with Malus is an open question. 

Second, I would not use the legal system as portrayed in JJ as a measure of justice or anything, especially when it came to powered people. After all, it decided that Alisa could be stripped of her constitutional rights because she is powered. She was denied the right to speak to counsel privately, she could be shocked by the sadistic guard with apparently no ramifications (heck, the sadistic guard was revealed to be a serial killer and was still able to retain his position despite having caused, what, like five "suicides"?), and it seemed clear to all concerned that Alisa was heading to a prison where she would be denied any visitation rights. 

Third, Alisa was early in the potential defense of her case. It was not clear how much the police or prosecutors or anyone outside of our heroes know about Alisa's past. They almost certainly know less than what we were shown, though. It was not clear what avenues Hogarth would have explored as possible defenses. I would have to think that some sort of not guilty by reason of insanity plea is one she would explore. 

[steelyis]

15 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Well, first, the ability to consent and make rational decisions in one area does not mean that one has the ability to consent and make rational decisions in all areas. Same with being unable to give consent and make rational decisions at one time versus another.

What the legal system might conclude in 2018 about how competent Alisa is with regard to standing trial for and potentially being sentenced for multiple murder is one thing. What level of independence, clarity, rationality, etc. that Alisa might have had, what, 10, 15, almost 20 years ago when it came to the man who saved her life and has her locked up in a secret facility is IMO another. 

It's pretty clear that when Alisa first was awake, she was completely out of her mind. By the time of the present, she has recovered most of her faculties, but she still is not 100 percent sane. She is calmed by Jessica and Malus and the ocean, but she can fly off into sheer rage. How far along the spectrum of rational she was when she started her relationship with Malus is an open question. 

Second, I would not use the legal system as portrayed in JJ as a measure of justice or anything, especially when it came to powered people. After all, it decided that Alisa could be stripped of her constitutional rights because she is powered. She was denied the right to speak to counsel privately, she could be shocked by the sadistic guard with apparently no ramifications (heck, the sadistic guard was revealed to be a serial killer and was still able to retain his position despite having caused, what, like five "suicides"?), and it seemed clear to all concerned that Alisa was heading to a prison where she would be denied any visitation rights. 

Third, Alisa was early in the potential defense of her case. It was not clear how much the police or prosecutors or anyone outside of our heroes know about Alisa's past. They almost certainly know less than what we were shown, though. It was not clear what avenues Hogarth would have explored as possible defenses. I would have to think that some sort of not guilty by reason of insanity plea is one she would explore. 

 

The subject of how arbitrary and nebulous the culpability of the mentally ill and minors is decided and debated by society is one of my bug-a-boos (drives me nuts, actually), so I'm going to leave it at this:

I'm making the personal judgement of Alisa's situation based on how I interpreted her actions, the other characters' reactions and how her overarching story was framed. I think her relationship with Malus within the narrative was ambiguous enough that someone could find it exploitative, a disturbing co-dependent mess and/or both.

In other words, agree to disagree.

[Chris24601]

9 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

BTW, I have to call some BS on that. It is a huge stretch that being on death's door for as long as she was, Trish deduced that Jessica and Alisa might head to Playland, managed to get there as Jessica and Alisa showed up, managed to make a difficult single-shot kill of Alisa. On top of that, the angle of the shot makes it difficult to think that the cops will ultimately buy that Jessica shot Alisa.

I don't think the cops were interested in looking too hard. The cop-killer got a bullet in the brain pan and the sympathetic cop didn't have to lock up the woman who saved his life last season. Also, it was a shot to the back of the head so it could be reasoned that Jessica waited for her mother to look away (perhaps even down at the ground) before she took the shot. Jessica also made sure she handled the gun to put her fingerprints all over it.

As to Trish's hugely improbable kill-shot... was it actually hugely improbable or was it just the first clue that Trish was gaining super-coordination/reflexes as demonstrated at the end of the episode when she caught her phone and flipped it up into her hand?

[Sakura12]

As much as Trish hated her mother for what she did, what I saw from the flashback was Trish also liked the fame the feeling of being special. So her wanting powers was for her not because she wants to be a hero. She wants to be special which takes away the heroic side it for me. Jessica taking the fall for Trish is once again Jessica helping Trish and getting nothing in return, that's a hero to me. Someone that does because it's right not because they want to be special or get any kind of fame from it. 

[MisterGlass]

I'm divided on this season.  I was hoping it would be more about Jessica the PI, but instead it piled more pain on her from all sides.  Her mother was okay as a villain, but I wish this had been eight or nine episodes.  I think it fell into the same trap as last season with the capture, then escape, then capture, then escape of the antagonist.  I kept willing Jessica to tranq her mother and send her to prison.  I don't like seeing her taken advantage of, kidnapped, and battered again and again and again.  I could not stand addict Trish and I can't take any of her protestations of wanting to do the right thing seriously anymore.  Malcolm was fine, and I'm still curious to see where he goes.  By far the most riveting work was from Carrie Ann Moss.  Jeri is terrifying in a way that I wish Sigourney Weaver's character in The Defenders had been.

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

I would not use the legal system as portrayed in JJ as a measure of justice or anything, especially when it came to powered people.

None of the Marvel shows have tried to be particularly accurate in this area.

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, Chris24601 said:

I don't think the cops were interested in looking too hard. The cop-killer got a bullet in the brain pan and the sympathetic cop didn't have to lock up the woman who saved his life last season. Also, it was a shot to the back of the head so it could be reasoned that Jessica waited for her mother to look away (perhaps even down at the ground) before she took the shot. Jessica also made sure she handled the gun to put her fingerprints all over it.

As to Trish's hugely improbable kill-shot... was it actually hugely improbable or was it just the first clue that Trish was gaining super-coordination/reflexes as demonstrated at the end of the episode when she caught her phone and flipped it up into her hand?

Good point on Trish's shot being a result of her enhancements. Not a gun expert, but it seems like there's no question such a shot would be impossible without the enhancements, given the movement of the Ferris Wheel and and a handgun. By contrast, Cheng missed several shots with a scope and rifle. 

Also not a forensic expert, but I would think the difference between a shot within the Ferris Wheel carriage and from the ground (say) 100 feet away would be pretty apparent. The way the wound would look, the lack of a shell casing within the car, etc. But as you said, it may be that no one would look too hard or care about who really killed a cop killer even if they clued into it not being Jessica.

15 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

As much as Trish hated her mother for what she did, what I saw from the flashback was Trish also liked the fame the feeling of being special. So her wanting powers was for her not because she wants to be a hero. She wants to be special which takes away the heroic side it for me. Jessica taking the fall for Trish is once again Jessica helping Trish and getting nothing in return, that's a hero to me. Someone that does because it's right not because they want to be special or get any kind of fame from it. 

The thing about Jessica Jones the show is that there aren't really any heroes in the traditional sense. Sure, Jessica helps people, but she usually does it for money, and she has non-heroic qualities aplenty. 

IMO, it's not fair to judge Trish by her teenaged self, 10-20 years later. Yes, she enjoyed the perks of fame as a teen. But as an adult, she's seemingly motivated by more than wanting adulation. If she just wanted fame, she would have married Griffin and enjoyed his popularity. Or she would have not tried to separate herself from her teen life as Patsy as much as she has. Or even as a midlevel radio celebrity tried to do more to boost herself. Her going out looking for crimes may have been her as an addict chasing an adrenaline high or it may be that she was just trying to help people. 

Also, Jessica gets a ton in return from Trish in general and in this specific situation. Given the chance, the cops would have gunned both Alisa and Jessica down if they were found together. But Alisa might have managed to take one or more cops down before she was taken out.

So Trish effectively saved Jessica's life and spared her the moral dilemma of having more police blood on her hands versus killing her own mother. 

And in not saying, "Actually, it was Trish who shot her, and not me," Jessica benefits because the cops don't think that Jessica was a willing accomplice in Alisa's flight.

[Sakura12]

Trish didn't marry Griffin because she didn't want his fame, she wanted her own fame. She even said she didn't want to marry him, she wanted to be him. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

16 minutes ago, MisterGlass said:

None of the Marvel shows have tried to be particularly accurate in this area.

Although it has the usual sort of inaccuracies when it comes to the legal system, I think Daredevil at least acts like the legal system is mostly just and functional. It can be used to take down people like the Kingpin, for example, and the little guy or girl has a shot.

Just now, Sakura12 said:

Trish didn't marry Griffin because she didn't want his fame, she wanted her own fame. She even said she didn't want to marry him, she wanted to be him. 

True, but if her primary motivation was fame, it's not a distinction she would have cared about.

[Sakura12]

2 minutes ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

True, but if her primary motivation was fame, it's not a distinction she would have cared about.

Yes it would be. She's the one that wants to be special. If she married Griffin she would be married to the special person not special herself. Her entire motivation to get powers was to be special. None of her motivation was to actually help others, it was to help herself. She hurt and used people to get what she wanted and got it. Now she probably won't care what she did to get her powers because she gets to be special now.  I hope if we get a season 3, we see Trish learning that having powers is not all it's cracked up to be. Captain America is learning that as well, not everyone will be grateful for a heroes help especially if it causes massive collateral damage. Trish's impulsiveness and one track mind will get others hurt. I'm not knocking the actress. Rachel Taylor did a great job showing me who Trish really is. I'm just wondering if they'll give her Hellcat's comic powers or make new ones. 

I don't think Jessica's some great amazing hero, she's not. But I feel her motivation is more to help the person not herself. Even by helping her mother she was thinking she was the only person that could keep her mother in check and was willing to give up everything to do that. I know her mother was a mass murder, but I understood Jessica wanting to help her because it was the mother she thought she lost years ago. Even the cop understood that. I actually don't think he would've killed Jessica had he found them together. So we can't say Trish helped her with that when we don't actually know what would've happened.

[methodwriter85]

3 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

If she married Griffin she would be married to the special person not special herself. Her entire motivation to get powers was to be special. None of her motivation was to actually help others, it was to help herself. She hurt and used people to get what she wanted and got it. Now she probably won't care what she did to get her powers because she gets to be special now.  I hope if we get a season 3, we see Trish learning that having powers is not all it's cracked up to be. Captain America is learning that as well, not everyone will be grateful for a heroes help especially if it causes massive collateral damage. Trish's impulsiveness and one track mind will get others hurt. I'm not knocking the actress. Rachel Taylor did a great job showing me who Trish really is. I'm just wondering if they'll give her Hellcat's comic powers or make new ones. 

I was a bit shocked by how Trish turned out this season, because I really did buy her sweet and bland "together" act of season 1 and early in this one. But the seed of how Trish needs to be special (in a way that isn't about Patsy) was always there, and it really took off this season. I just felt really frustrated with how Trish just completely threw away a pretty good life that she had. It wasn't enough for her to have a successful radio show or a sweet boyfriend, because somewhere deep inside she's still the self-destructive brat who needs to prove that she's better than anyone.

However, I feel like for them to have blown apart the entire group, we really should have had a solid season of them as a group. I really wish season 2 had been more about the villain of the week instead, and the gradual pulling apart of the group should've been season 3.

[Eneya]

8 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I was a bit shocked by how Trish turned out this season, because I really did buy her sweet and bland "together" act of season 1 and early in this one. But the seed of how Trish needs to be special (in a way that isn't about Patsy) was always there, and it really took off this season. I just felt really frustrated with how Trish just completely threw away a pretty good life that she had. It wasn't enough for her to have a successful radio show or a sweet boyfriend, because somewhere deep inside she's still the self-destructive brat who needs to prove that she's better than anyone.

However, I feel like for them to have blown apart the entire group, we really should have had a solid season of them as a group. I really wish season 2 had been more about the villain of the week instead, and the gradual pulling apart of the group should've been season 3.

I am a bit miffed about your description. We have seen so many movies and tv shows in which the moving force behind the motivations is the desire of being more, of being special, of helping (sure, misguided as well) by male characters and I have yet to see any of them being called entitled brats (or maybe I missed all of those examples, which is a possibility too).
Trish... I wouldn't call a brat by a longshot. Quite literally pimped by her mother, being sexually assaulted when she was 15 (unclear if that has happened before and after that), substance abuse issues, she is surprisingly functional.

I completely understand why living in the "perfect" version of the life laid in front of you can slowly drive you nuts and sure, she broke her seemingly perfect life but it was a matter of time, because she didn't want it. It is wise? Maybe not. Is it something that many people experience? Yes.

If I have to be honest, I don't understand how when wanting to be a superhero out of your own volition it is seen as problematic, because the person is not perfect. Is it better that Jessica was forced against her will, then being raped, enslaved, her mind fucked, her becoming an alcoholic and having behavioral issues? Trish has the option to choose and she wants to be a hero and have powers (relatively more than most heroes in Marvel's universe). Is it for the perfect reasons? I don't think so, but nobody is perfect and no hero is a perfect human being and I love how characters like Jessica show that and at the same time, I don't get it why people are being judged when they are less than perfect if they want to be super.

I truly believe Trish is quite misguided, needs therapy and does not have a full grasp of the issues of having super powers and responsibilities but considering how much "do something" matters to her and how much she lives in reality in which physical strength matters, I completely understand why she wants powers. I don't agree with her on that front but I understand it.

Something that... I needed more nuance is about motherhood. It was repeated ad naseum how once a mother, always a mother and... I don't agree with that. I don't agree that you are in the right and should be in your child's life because you are a parent. US has a great fascination with (biological) family and the idea that if you just try hard enough, the family can be functional. Families like that of Trish are a great example how a person can be toxic and it is for the best for the child to stay as far as possible from the influence of the relative, biological or not, yet in the whole season... there was no such nuance, always reverting to "always her mother". It is quite unhealthy and it makes it very hard for people to break up with abusive relatives because that idea is so popular and so often accepted as gospel.

[Sakura12]

For me it's the way Trish went about getting her powers that bothers me. She was reckless and impulsive and it could've killed her. The ones that have powers forced upon them didn't hurt anyone to get them. They weren't given a choice.  The only choice they made was what to do with their powers. Trish hurt Malcolm and Jessica along the way to get her powers, she made those choices. 

There are plenty of heroes that don't have powers and still help people. If I saw Trish trying to help others before getting her powers then I'd believe she was more truthful in her motivation. What I saw was an addict that wanted powers to make herself feel better. That's why I hope she learns some lessons in season 3 and learns why Jessica is so hesitant with her powers. I'd imagine for Jess everyday she has to restrain herself, even doing normal things. She could crush someone by just hugging them. That's why when she was with Luke they were breaking furniture by having sex, that was the first time either of them got to have sex without holding anything back.  Jessica has to be constantly aware of her strength.  

[Delphi]

I didn't think I'd come out of this season hating Trish and Malcolm.   But here we are. 

I loved Trish until halfway through this season.   But damn,  girl,  you are Cray Cray.   I think Jessica  pointed it out very well.   She's famous,  rich,  highly competent.   She doesn't need powers to be a 'hero'.  Honestly,  I think that's what separate the two.   Jessica tends to do these pro bono cases and helps people because she thinks it's the right thing to do.  Trish is, at least now it seems,  is always just an addict chasing down another high.   Though Rachel did an utterly fantastic job this season. 

Malcolm,  you're a douche.   Jessica saved your life,  twice,  got you clean,  gave you a job and you go do things that interfere with her job and act disgruntled when called on it?  You act like a dick when she's having difficulty processing the return of her dead for twenty years mother?  Take your ass back to your family because I'm not here for that. 

[Chaos Theory]

So I’m apparently the only one who thinks Jessica is actually acting like selfish bitch throughout?  Maybe because I understand Trish and Malcolm’s motivations.  Even when they make the exact wrong choice I understand why.  Jessica always seems to drown in her own sorrow which got annoying after awhile.

[Enigma X]

Oh, @Chaos Theory, I am sure my opinion will be even more unfavorable than yours here.

Malcolm is being shitting on the most by his friends. Notice, I did not say that Malcolm is being shitted on by life the most. But both Jessica and Trish are taking out their crap on Malcolm and expecting him to take it with a smile.

I do think we viewers who love Jessica give her pass on how treats people in general. There are some who deserve her snark and others (usually peripheral characters) who don't. But her final speech to Malcolm was not warranted.

Sorry. I understand Trish has been through something, but I still think she is a selfish bitch. She wants to be special at any cost and Jessica and Malcolm are just collateral at this point.

[Sakura12]

I didn't have a problem with Malcolm. He should've left Jessica a long time ago. She was never going to let him grow as a PI. I think she will always kind of see Malcolm (through no fault of his own) as Killgrave's spy. That's how they met. Considering the number Killgrave did to her it's probably better for them to part ways. 

I understand Jessica's motivation, others understand Trish's, different opinions is what makes the world go around. It doesn't mean any of us are wrong for feeling the way we do. For me Jessica has a right to be moody and sorrowful, life keeps shitting on her. She has no idea what normal even is anymore. She got her mother back only to find out she's an unstoppable mass murderer then her best friend just shoots her in the head. The fact that she went to see Oscar and Vido after all that shows growth to me. She's trying to find a normal. 

[ICantDoThatDave]

56 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I do think we viewers who love Jessica give her pass on how treats people in general. There are some who deserve her snark and others (usually peripheral characters) who don't. But her final speech to Malcolm was not warranted.

Sorry. I understand Trish has been through something, but I still think she is a selfish bitch. She wants to be special at any cost and Jessica and Malcolm are just collateral at this point.

That may be true, but let me reassure you that I'm not giving Jessica a pass, & I love Jessica as a character.  I like the fact that she's kind of an asshole to everyone.  It's one of her most endearing traits!  But she was really horrible to Malcolm this whole season.  Not that I'm giving him a pass either - he did a lot of stuff behind her back.  Neither one came out looking good.  I also agree with you on Trish.  I don't think that we were meant to really sympathize with Trish, though.  People can side with who they like of course, but I don't think the writers meant for us to see Trish as anything other than a selfish bitch.

With that said, & re-iterating that I like Jessica Jones the character, I really didn't think this season was very good.  Better than Iron Fist, sure, but that's a low bar to cross.  It started really slow, with no real "hook", picked up in the middle when the standard "evil corporation/mad scientist" turned out to be not the threat to Jessica but rather Jessica's mom/stepdad, but then just kind of... petered out into nothing.  It seemed to keep building up into "maybe something interesting is right around the corner!" but then... no.  There wasn't.

No, it turned out it was just about Jessica feeling conflicted over her mom & Trish teleporting across the state to headshot the bad guy & so relieve Jess of making an actual choice that would shake up the setting..  There was no real antagonist.  If I didn't know this show was named for Jessica Jones, I'd wonder who the protagonist was.  It was chock full of cliches - the hot, ant-Jess super who's a bad boy artist with a heart of gold, Trish's inhaler running out right when you knew it would, the mad scientist seeing the error of his ways & destroying his work, ending at Chekov's ferris wheel, knocking people out, hallucinating & literally talking to past villains, guns that can't hit the broad side of a barn until a killshot is needed for the plot, etc.

I really wanted this to be better.

[Wayward Son]

• I am so upset that Malcolm and Jessica haven’t resolved things :( . There had better be a season 3 so they can fix things. 

• Rachael and Krysten did an amazing job during their scene together after the death of Alisa. Trish’s desperation to save Jessica, her fear of being hurt by Jessica and of course Jessica’s sheer rage. Trish is lucky she’s literally the most important person in the world to Jess. I think Jess would have killed anyone else there and then.

• Jessica deciding to really live and eating family dinner was a perfect way to end the season. 

 

Again, we’d better get a season 3! Malcom/Jess and Trish/Jess can not end like this!

Edited March 12, 2018 by Wayward Son

[kdm07]

On 09/03/2018 at 5:44 PM, kdm07 said:

I have a lot of thoughts. I think I'll need a rewatch before putting them down but I came away from this season with this as one of my major thoughts:

Trish...

Okay so I finished my re-watch and tried to make note of all the various character beats I missed on my first watch because I was more focused on where the season was going instead of what the season was telling us about each character.

Jessica: the interesting thing about her and Trish's relationship that always popped up in Season 1 and became more pronounced in Season 2 was their take on superpowers and normalcy. After all Jessica has been through, she'd trade her powers in any day for a normal life whereas Trish has taken her trauma and used it to look for ways to become even more powerful. Their takes on how to deal with their childhood trauma leads us to how Jessica deals with her mother once she finds her. She had two opportunities to do the "logical" thing and cut ties with her mother but on both occasions she not only tried to protect her mother but she also hid her away from the two people in her life that she trusts the most. I don't blame her for doing this, If my long-thought dead mother came back from the dead I'd be a mess too. The way she dealt with her mother also pushed to the forefront of how, even though she trusts Malcolm and especially Trish with all that she has, she'll always hold back/keep secrets from them. I do wonder what would've happened if she had been completely upfront with them about her mother once she returned from that house instead of hiding her in the apartment. Jessica also tries to regain that normalcy she craves by sharing dinner with her super and his son at the end of the season but to be honest, I don't see that going anywhere. She has too much going on in her head that she has to deal with before she can be a in fully-functional relationship.

Trish: sigh...again, another who's shades of grey got amplified this season. I don't doubt that she wants to help people or do the right thing but the conversation she had with the doctor about feeling powerless because she grew up with an abusive mother and a super-powered sister made me remember the scene in Season 1 when a younger Trish told a younger Jessica not to save her. Trish's biggest fear is being powerless and that leads to her enabling her worst habits based on whatever's going on in her life. After nearly dying, I thought she would've pumped the breaks on trying to be a superhero but then I thought "This is Trish, she'll probably try even harder now because near death is another sign of being powerless". Like Jessica, she has trouble truly being honest with the people she professes to trust the most and it leads her into situations that she should honestly know better than to enter in. Should she have gone after Jessica and her mother the second time? Yes because when it comes to Jessica, Trish does crazy stupid things all the time (again see Season 1 with her eating the red pills) and she was trying to stop Jessica from being killed by the police. She should've definitely not shot her mother though even if she claimed that she thought Jessica was being manipulated by her (I kinda agreed with her on that point). Now we'll see how exactly she's going to cope with being super-powered after chasing after it for so long. Both she and Jessica need to find a therapist who'll they'll actually want to work with instead of the ones they've seen and been reluctant to truly let go with.

Malcolm: for most of the season I felt for him. Jessica never treated him like an employee and even when she promoted him to 'associate' she barely treated him right then either. He was keeping Alias Investigations running while Jessica was off doing her thing and (I could be wrong) but I don't think she ever thanked him once for the work he was putting in. He lost me when he agreed to sleep with Trish and then joined the other PI guy. With Trish, as a former addict himself, he should've known what she was trying to do with him and well...the other PI guy isn't worth anyone's time tbh.

Jeri: her journey interested me right from the minute we found out about her illness. For someone who's so used to being in control, in power, having a fatal disease must've been the worst kind of shock. She dealt with it the way I figured she would; by ignoring it and then descending into a haze of destructive behaviour. The real Jeri Hogarth appeared again at the end when she decided that she was going to keep being herself even if time was running out. I think though, if she figured out that IGH's methods actually work, she'll try and heal herself.

 

In short: this season showed us the blindspots that the main characters have and how those blindspots have us where we are when the season ended. None of them have ever truly addressed those blind spots about each other or themselves. Now with pretty much everything in the open, we'll see if our characters will address those issues head on or bottle them up like they've done before.

[Cranberry]

I'm disappointed that in a season intended to empower women, the writers blew up the Jess/Trish relationship -- the strong female friendship that they'd previously said was the core relationship of the show. I don't see how the characters can come back from Trish shooting Jessica's mother in the head.

[ICantDoThatDave]

I'm not sure the season actually "intended to empower women".  I think, like most Marvel shows/movies, it just tried to tell a good story that empowers everyone with people of [insert gender here] who were [insert race here] being role models to [insert demographic here]]" that all people would think were awesome.

It's weird.  I don't think I've ever been face-to-face with one of them Russian bots who's only task s to divide us.  Is that what's happening here?!?  How can I tell a human from a 'bot?!?  Am I being Terminator'ed right now?  "I'm so scared!" [/Jessie Spano from Saved By The Bell impression].

Edited March 13, 2018 by ICantDoThatDave

[Chicago Redshirt]

49 minutes ago, Cranberry said:

I'm disappointed that in a season intended to empower women, the writers blew up the Jess/Trish relationship -- the strong female friendship that they'd previously said was the core relationship of the show. I don't see how the characters can come back from Trish shooting Jessica's mother in the head.

Jessica and Trish have been each other's ride-or-die for years. They also have been jealous and resentful of aspects of each other for years. That's what makes their relationship fascinating in a way that many similar friendships/sisterhoods are not (at least to me).

It's possible with enough time passing, Jessica could come to accept that Alisa would have almost certainly meant the death of her or a life prison sentence at the Raft for being an accomplice after the fact. 

It's possible with enough time passing, Trish could realize that shooting Alisa wasn't her decision to make and she robbed Jessica not just of her mother, but her right to decide. 

It's possible that Trish's abilities/addictions will go even more to her head and that Trish will be the Big Bad of S3. 

[mledawn]

I can't get my mind around what happened to Trish this season. I pressed stop at the end of this episode believing she was being set up as the next Big Bad, absolutely. I don't see how she isn't. Shooting Jessica's mother, claiming she "saved" Jessica. How!? Jessica's mother wasn't going to kill her - that's what Trish thought was going to happen. No matter what Jessica said, Trish didn't listen. She held my dear Callum Rennie at gunpoint, ran over Malcolm in her car, all to get her stupid superpowers. I've got little to no use for her, and I couldn't understand why Jessica was trying to save her in the hospital, after Trish had willingly done all this crappy stuff to her. Trish needs to take a long walk off a short pier.

I am glad that Malcolm seems to have his legs under him now, although working with Pryce seems like an unwise decision. Jessica took out her crap on him and he didn't deserve it. And he was used by Trish, but I'm glad he had the back bone to tell her they weren't friends. He was everyone's door mat, and he seems to be over that.

After the whole stupidness with Trish, I don't even know what to think about Jessica and where she goes from here.

 

Also, I was confused at what happened with Griffin's storyline - he used a USB to take info from Trish's computer and was also talking on the phone with someone about information related to IGH... This season didn't hold my attention as much, and somehow I missed where that storyline went. I remember seeing him in Afghanistan or somewhere after the break up, but honestly don't remember what happened to his shady machinations on Trish's story.

[ICantDoThatDave]

28 minutes ago, mledawn said:

Also, I was confused at what happened with Griffin's storyline - he used a USB to take info from Trish's computer and was also talking on the phone with someone about information related to IGH...

That was all just a misdirect, designed to make us think he was shady. He was just getting her friends list in order to orchestrate the "shocking" proposal where Trish thought she had an interview & Jessica thought she was in trouble so rushed to show up. It was soap opera-level manufactured drama.

[mledawn]

Ok, thanks @ICantDoThatDave - I do remember the proposal, so I must have blocked out a bit of that drama.

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, mledawn said:

I can't get my mind around what happened to Trish this season. I pressed stop at the end of this episode believing she was being set up as the next Big Bad, absolutely. I don't see how she isn't. Shooting Jessica's mother, claiming she "saved" Jessica. How!? Jessica's mother wasn't going to kill her - that's what Trish thought was going to happen. 

Alisa did not pose a direct threat to Jessica by the end. She had regained enough self-control and compsure (presumably) to not attack Jessica. 

However, the best case scenario for Jessica would be a life as a fugitive. 

The far more likely case would be that the cops would catch up to them. Which really would have one of a few possible outcomes:

1. Alisa hulks out and kills one or more cops

2. Alisa and/or Jessica get shot and killed/wounded by cops

3. Alisa and/or Jessica get captured and wiill be on a one-way trip to life sentences at the Raft

4. Some combination of the above. 

[moonshine71]

On 3/11/2018 at 10:05 PM, Sakura12 said:

Trish didn't marry Griffin because she didn't want his fame, she wanted her own fame. She even said she didn't want to marry him, she wanted to be him. 

Trish had fame. Her face was plastered all over the city for her show,  she was followed by paparazzi and on tabloid covers. She wanted to be Griffin because he was someone who made a difference. He put his life on the line to bring the stories of those suffering in conflict zones. He reported real news that affected people's lives.

[moonshine71]

12 hours ago, Delphi said:

Jessica tends to do these pro bono cases and helps people because she thinks it's the right thing to do.  

What? How do you figure that?

 

According to Malcolm, Trish, and Jessica herself, she tends to take the cases of sleazy people who pay well and that she doesn't care about. The only pro bono case she had any intent to take on this season was the old woman looking for her son and that was because Malcolm pestered her into it. She took on Hope's case pro bono last season, but she had a pre-existing tie to the case and Kilgrave, and felt some responsibility for what happened to Hope. 

 

We really have not seen Jessica going out of her way to help people. 

[paramitch]

I liked this season, but it also felt a little frantic, sloppy and haphazard. 

For me, the good:

Jeri's story (Carrie-Anne Freaking Moss). To echo @steelyis, Oh my GOD. Her performance blew me away, and Jeri's story was by far the one I was most interested in this season -- her pain, her strength, her unexpected vulnerability, her ability to be both wonderful and terrifying. I also thought the actress who played Inez was fantastic (her reactions and expressions in so many scenes are so, so nuanced and subtle), and loved her chemistry with Jeri. The outcome really broke my heart, but I loved how Jeri pulled herself together and coolly avenged herself.

Alisa and Jessica. I thought Janet McTeer was fantastic in the role, and made Alisa heartbreaking, terrifying, damaged, funny, and very human. I really cared about her despite my frustration at her choices.

Malcolm. I always love Malcolm, and I felt Eka, the actor, did as good a job as it was possible to do here with Malcolm's search for relevance and meaning. I didn't think he was always consistently written, but Eka's so graceful and charismatic in the role, and he brings this really necessary palpable empathy to the character. On the other hand, I had a hard time buying him jumping on board with Wolfram & Hart in the end... it's against everything he is as a person.

Dr. Malus. I always love Callum Keith Rennie because, as an actor, he makes these very odd, pure choices -- you can tell for instance, that here, Dr. Malus never saw himself as a bad guy, and in fact he saw himself as a hero. A nice, subtle contrast to Trish, actually and surprisingly, and it also made his moment of final self-revelation more moving and impactful than I expected it to be.

The bad:

Trish and Dorothy. I just felt like this -- while I can tell it was supposed to parallel Jessica and Alisa -- was awkwardly done and sometimes really badly acted. Dorothy's ceaseless transparent pimping of her daughter EVEN ON HER DEATHBED grossed me out, and Trish suddenly turning into a walking carpet for her mother all season disappointed me. What happened to the strong woman who saw through her mother and cut her out of her life each time this behavior resurfaced?

The bummer for me is that if they had given us some fleeting genuine little moments there between them (like they did so well with Alisa and Jess) I might have bought it... for instance, a genuinely scared, heartbroken Dorothy at realizing her daughter was using again, or when her daughter was near death. But in every case, it was just another moment for Dorothy to double down on being soulless and horrible. So instead, I started cringing every time Rebecca DeMornay showed up to chew more scenery because those scenes were all utterly interchangeable and became deadly dull to me.

The awful terrible stupid logic problems -- This season, I seriously thought Jessica was a terrible terrible detective. She basically just took pictures of people all season, clomped into settings with seemingly zero care for being silent, and meanwhile did a series of really stupid and obvious things, like sitting directly opposite Heng on a ledge in order to "shadow" him, or turning on her mother's piano tablet while snooping her home (AND LEAVING IT ON as she goes downstairs to its reinforced dungeon!), or circling the picture of a ring on a guy's hand with a marker to show us... wow... she needs to investigate the ring. And I won't even get into the other silly moments like the paint floor sex, or the super's kid practically throwing himself out the window for her to save him, etc. There were little utterly illogical moments like this in almost every episode that just felt hastily blocked and ill-thought-out.

The awful boyfriend. I disliked the super and cringed through that entire romance (which also had zero chemistry). And I'm so tired of the trope that the asshole guy is really just a misunderstood sweetheart waiting to be discovered. I disliked his justification of his cruelty to Jessica because he needed his kid. I also didn't buy the kid's immediate adoration of Jessica either -- it felt smarmy and false.

Trish's Addiction. I really thought this had potential, but it didn't work for me, not least because again, of the illogical elements. Trish didn't slide slowly into it, she was huffing that inhaler like a maniac, and I just didn't buy that she wouldn't pace herself even a little -- especially given the limited supply -- and slide back into it while lying to herself the entire way (I'm being a hero! I'm being careful with it!). Versus cartoonishly hurtling into it (although Jessica's constant glugging of bourbon bottles gets a little cartoonish as well). I have addicts in my family and there's frequently an element of self-delusion to relapses and I didn't see that here, nor did Rachael seem to draw on the necessary gravitas for the plotline.

Trish and Jessica. I have to admit that I hated watching this season trash the one relationship on this show that matters to me. For me, the pivotal moment in season 1 when Jessica turns to Trish and says "I love you" before killing Kilgrave was a gorgeous, heartbreaking and empowering moment. I hated watching that get blown to smithereens.

On 3/10/2018 at 4:38 PM, Chaos Theory said:

Of course Trish would feel a certain inferiority toward Jessica and resent that Jessica doesn’t do anything with her powers without really understanding what those same powers cost her.  The same thing that bonded them crappy childhoods in season 1 is what causes strife in season 2.  Which makes a certain sense and adding both sets of mothers just added to the intensity.

 

I liked this idea in theory, but I disliked its execution. I thought Trish's storyline could have been handled with a lot more subtlety and nuance, especially, and I felt like we didn't learn anything at all from the Trish/Dorothy parallels (except that Trish had for some reason utterly backslid on recognizing her horrible mother's transparent motivations).

On 3/11/2018 at 8:11 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

BTW, I have to call some BS on that. It is a huge stretch that being on death's door for as long as she was, Trish deduced that Jessica and Alisa might head to Playland, managed to get there as Jessica and Alisa showed up, managed to make a difficult single-shot kill of Alisa. On top of that, the angle of the shot makes it difficult to think that the cops will ultimately buy that Jessica shot Alisa. 

I thought it was a good use of logic for Trish to know Playland (and kudos to @ICantDoThatDave for "Chekov's Ferris Wheel"). She had several key conversations with Jessica about it and had actually been there AND it was in Westchester. As far as the kill shot, to echo @Chris24601, I just thought Trish's powers were manifesting, and that the cops wouldn't look too closely because they got what they wanted and nobody was going to argue what they found at the scene.

On 3/11/2018 at 8:55 AM, Chaos Theory said:

I understand Trish because no matter what she tried to do......no one wanted her. They wanted Patsy. They wanted Jessica. They didn't want her.  

 

This is the most heartbreaking aspect to Trish, and I do agree that it's incredibly sad. The only person who wants Trish for who she really is (and not Patsy) is Jessica... and now she's lost that.

On 3/11/2018 at 6:31 PM, Sakura12 said:

As much as Trish hated her mother for what she did, what I saw from the flashback was Trish also liked the fame the feeling of being special. So her wanting powers was for her not because she wants to be a hero. She wants to be special which takes away the heroic side it for me. Jessica taking the fall for Trish is once again Jessica helping Trish and getting nothing in return, that's a hero to me. Someone that does because it's right not because they want to be special or get any kind of fame from it. 

I think you bring up an interesting point. I don't think Trish actually liked the fame, but the reverse, which was why she was drugging herself into oblivion to deal with it. And I do think Trish wants to do good and to help others. But she's blind to what it costs Jessica even if I actually think she did the right think in shooting Alisa. Alisa was on a date with death. The cops were going to take her out, and she had already ensured that Jessica would go down with her. I really want Jessica to realize that what Trish did was, while terrible, probably the only thing that saved Jessica's life.

On 3/11/2018 at 6:46 PM, MisterGlass said:

By far the most riveting work was from Carrie Ann Moss.  Jeri is terrifying in a way that I wish Sigourney Weaver's character in The Defenders had been.

I 100% agree. I would watch an entire show about Jeri, honestly. Shit, I'd read a novel about her. She's by far the richest and most complex character on this show.

On 3/11/2018 at 7:02 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Also, Jessica gets a ton in return from Trish in general and in this specific situation. Given the chance, the cops would have gunned both Alisa and Jessica down if they were found together. But Alisa might have managed to take one or more cops down before she was taken out.

So Trish effectively saved Jessica's life and spared her the moral dilemma of having more police blood on her hands versus killing her own mother. 

And in not saying, "Actually, it was Trish who shot her, and not me," Jessica benefits because the cops don't think that Jessica was a willing accomplice in Alisa's flight.

This.

22 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I just felt really frustrated with how Trish just completely threw away a pretty good life that she had. It wasn't enough for her to have a successful radio show or a sweet boyfriend, because somewhere deep inside she's still the self-destructive brat who needs to prove that she's better than anyone.

I don't think Trish is a brat at all. I think her "good life" is meaningless to her because she is an opaque surface to people who just see what they want to see and take what they want to take. She has repeatedly and literally been pimped out by her mother and even her friends. It makes sense to me that Trish struggles with trust and power issues. She wants to be a hero not just to save others, but to save herself. She isn't doing it to be a star. She's doing it to escape what being a star turned her into. And she never wants anyone to use her again. I do find that poignant. 

5 hours ago, Cranberry said:

I'm disappointed that in a season intended to empower women, the writers blew up the Jess/Trish relationship -- the strong female friendship that they'd previously said was the core relationship of the show. I don't see how the characters can come back from Trish shooting Jessica's mother in the head.

I hope they can. The Trish/Jessica friendship is the core of the show for me.

Edited March 13, 2018 by paramitch
TYPOS gah everywhere

[dkb]

I hope Trish and Jess can make up next season but I don't know how Jessica wouldn't always be reminded that Trish was the one that killed her mom. Like Jessica said at the end, it didn't have to be Trish. She got that her mom had to be killed, but not by Trish.

Same with Malcolm and Jessica; I think they might have an easier path to becoming friends again especially if he's not working for her. No boss/employee dynamic, just friends.

I liked the Jeri mentioned Rand Enterprises this episode cause I had forgotten that she represents dumb dumb Danny and the company.

I hope next season we get more cases throughout the episodes and some lighter episodes, but altogether I really liked and enjoyed it.

[Delphi]

57 minutes ago, moonshine71 said:

 

We really have not seen Jessica going out of her way to help people. 

Pro bono,  was the wrong phrase,  but Jessica cares about people a lot more than she would like Malcolm to think.  She helped with the Shlottman case,  got Malcolm clean (which is really above and beyond for her), she helped Luke find the missing kid, convinced Kilgrave to save the family,  went into investigate the missing guy in the Defenders and kept looking into it,  she didn't have to go back to Jade Pearl to save the team,  she didn't have to go to Midland Circle for the showdown, she gets more personally and emotionally invested in cases and people than she'd ever admit,  which is probably why she ends up choosing people like the lady from the pizza shop so she doesn't have to care. 

[Sakura12]

I do think Jessica takes the cases she knows she won't get too personally involved in because she doesn't want to care. She will help when she knows it's the right thing to do. But not she's going to help every sad face that comes into her office, otherwise she'd be busy 24/7. Everyone has drama in their lives it's just what is life threatening drama and what is just drama is what she has to figure out. I can't even imagine how many crazy people come into her office with made up stories and because they want to meet a "gifted" person. No wonder she doesn't use her flying ability, if people knew that they'd probably want to pay her to take them flying.  

Does Trish even know that some woman last year was blaming Jessica for the what the Avengers did? Not everyone likes the heroes. People are afraid of Jessica. 

I do think Jessica and Malcolm can find their way back to each other after Malcolm works with Pryce for a bit and realizes he's just in it for the money and will keep cases going longer to get more money. While for Jessica it was never about the money, he was the one trying to keep the business going by getting Jessica to take paying jobs.  He'll get some different experiences working with Pryce, but like Jeri said he's not licensed. So maybe he should look into that instead of expecting people to hire him when he's not legally a PI yet. 

Edited March 13, 2018 by Sakura12

[Netfoot]

On 3/11/2018 at 10:02 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

Not a gun expert, but it seems like there's no question such a shot would be impossible without the enhancements, given the movement of the Ferris Wheel and and a handgun.

As a one-time firearm owner and competitive shooter, I would say not impossible.   Difficult yes, particularly with that weapon, and under those conditions.  And not likely in the hands of someone who was not talented and well practiced.  But not impossible.

Still, I will agree that this shot is probably an indication of improved or improving hand/eye coordination on the part of Trish, who has never demonstrated any aptitude with a pistol, and has never indicated any propensity to practice at the range.

[Chicago Redshirt]

I guess I should accept in a world where Hawkeye exists, it's possible that a non-enhanced human could make extremely difficult shots.

It remains highly improbable that Trish, who had never before demonstrated Hawkeye-level training or skill, would have been able to make that shot but for being enhanced.

[mledawn]

9 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Alisa did not pose a direct threat to Jessica by the end. She had regained enough self-control and compsure (presumably) to not attack Jessica. 

However, the best case scenario for Jessica would be a life as a fugitive. 

The far more likely case would be that the cops would catch up to them. Which really would have one of a few possible outcomes:

1. Alisa hulks out and kills one or more cops

2. Alisa and/or Jessica get shot and killed/wounded by cops

3. Alisa and/or Jessica get captured and wiill be on a one-way trip to life sentences at the Raft

4. Some combination of the above. 

No, I get all that. Were we to assume that was Trish's thought process? Or did she think Jessica was in direct danger from Alisa. My interpretation was that Trish thought Jessica was in direct danger, and shot Alisa. 
Jessica understood her best case was life as a fugitive at that point, and made the decision to be with her mom. Just like when Jessica killed Kilgrave, she made a decision knowing she might pay dearly for it.

Trish and Jessica's relationship was a disappointment for me this season, and it's too bad because they were a good team.

3 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

As a one-time firearm owner and competitive shooter, I would say not impossible.   Difficult yes, particularly with that weapon, and under those conditions.  And not likely in the hands of someone who was not talented and well practiced.  But not impossible.

Still, I will agree that this shot is probably an indication of improved or improving hand/eye coordination on the part of Trish, who has never demonstrated any aptitude with a pistol, and has never indicated any propensity to practice at the range.

Did we not get an indication that Trish was more than comfortable with guns? She stated this season that she loved them, and grabbed them all out of Simpson's trunk. Last season I thought we did see she practiced her self defense and guns extensively. I'm on the train of this being the beginning of her enhanced abilities, though. I mean, as much as our superhero fantasy show needs to be based in reality, I can suspend disbelief on this.

[Sakura12]

I think Trish has gone to gun range since she was always wanting to carry a gun around with her. I don't think she was an expert or anything. So I figured after seeing her quick reflexes with her phone, that the shot she took was part of her powers manifesting. 

With Trish I can see next season where her over eagerness to help and impulsiveness is going to hurt people. That is probably what will bring her and Jessica back together. Jessica will need to help Trish learn self control with her powers and that you can't always help everyone. 

Edited March 13, 2018 by Sakura12

[Netfoot]

33 minutes ago, mledawn said:

Did we not get an indication that Trish was more than comfortable with guns? She stated this season that she loved them, and grabbed them all out of Simpson's trunk. Last season I thought we did see she practiced her self defense and guns extensively.

24 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

I think Trish has gone to gun range since she was always wanting to carry a gun around with her.

She has definitely been quick to pick up a pistol.  I don't remember her spending time at the range, but that may be because I'm not such a huge fan, and simply forgot.  If she has spent time at the range honing her skills, it makes the shot less impossible.  But I'm still on the enhanced ability bandwagon.  At least to some degree.

[Eneya]

26 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

She has definitely been quick to pick up a pistol.  I don't remember her spending time at the range, but that may be because I'm not such a huge fan, and simply forgot.  If she has spent time at the range honing her skills, it makes the shot less impossible.  But I'm still on the enhanced ability bandwagon.  At least to some degree.

It was mentioned in season 1 that she goes to the range, she also practices martial arts, etc. I don't remember the episode, but the way it was shown in season 2, it is implied that she kept the habits.

[Gwen-Stacys]

First off, can we all stop calling Trish a bitch? It's disconcerting that we're discussing a show that focuses on flawed women as fully fleshed out characters and some of us are minimizing those rich characterizations to them "just being selfish bratty bitch". It's highkey gross.

Everybody annoyed me this season (except for Malcolm) but I also didn't feel like they were widely out of character or unsympathetic. Jessica wanted her family back in her mother, and found it hard to separate what she wanted to do vs what she needed to do. Alisa was a ticking time bomb that'd dropped way too many bodies for her to be able to just go on and live a regular life. Her getting taken out was unavoidable. And while it was unfortunate that Trish was the one that did it, I understood her reasoning. Costa traipsed into her hospital room and basically told her that her sister (her only true protector and family) was going to be collateral damage, so she the only thing she thought she could do. Get there first and make sure Jessica wasn't hurt.

To add on to that, they made it very apparent this season (even touched on it last season) that Trish is an addict. And like Malcolm said, addicts need something to do. Being a hero was just a thing she decided was going to be her thing (like Malcolm and PI work/fixing up Jessica's apartment). What tipped her over the edge was using super soldier's inhaler when she thought Jessica was in trouble early on that season. she became addicted to that feeling of hyper awareness and "superness" (to the point where she was fidgety and unfocused without it) and, like the addict that she is, searched for a more permanent solution (high). Annoying? Yes. Selfish? Absolutely. But completely understandable based off who she is as a fully fleshed out character

The thing with Jessica and Trish was that they always mirrored each other. Both were raped/controlled by people with power over them (and sometimes substances) and were dealing with the aftermath. They're also fighting against people's expectations ---Jessica the hero and Trish the "Patsy". Season 1 Trish just looked like she was the more together one, but there were signs that she could tip either way.

I'm super excited to see were season 3 takes both of these unbelievably flawed, awesome female characters.

"While for Jessica it was never about the money, he was the one trying to keep the business going by getting Jessica to take paying jobs."

No he didn't. Malcolm was trying to convince Jessica that, because she'd taken so many paying jobs, they could afford to do a few pro bono cases.

Edited March 13, 2018 by Gwen-Stacys