S09.E08: The Truth Comes Out

[Gothish520]

19 hours ago, Libby said:

I think that it's very telling that before people in the family spend a period of time with Meri, they think that it's best to see a counselor. Janelle with the march and Kody with the trip to see the B&B both felt that they needed to have a session with Nancy before they went.

Meri must truly be unbearable to be around.

But it's also interesting that both Janelle and Kody have expressed negative feelings about therapy - could it be that Meri is insisting? Janelle says she often thinks about drinking beforehand, and Kody flat out said he hates going.

But people like Meri often LOVE therapy - it's a place where they can talk about themselves endlessly, and can get the validation that they need from the therapist. 

[laurakaye]

3 hours ago, neh said:

 Meri, Meri, Meri....Please take your ugly ass shoes and your whiney entitlement off my screen.  Meri is even more awful when followed by Ysabel and her strength.

My goodness, but isn't this the truth.  If Meri had the capability to be self-aware, she would be very embarrassed.  But we all know that ain't happening.

And does Lularoe make shoes?  That would explain the footwear.

[kicotan]

1 minute ago, Gothish520 said:

But people like Meri often LOVE terrible therapy - it's a place where they can talk about themselves endlessly, and can get the validation that they need from the therapist. 

Fixed that for ya'! Lol

Nancy is a terrible therapist. She is merely a communication facilitator-in that Meri can't bring herself to communicate effectively with her husband/wives so she drags them to Nancy, who validates her and encourages her to not change a thing about herself.

Any therapist worth her salt would be calling Meri out on her bullshit.

[lookeyloo]

And the common denominator in the therapy is Meri.  I wonder if Nancy ever calls her out on her mess and says people comes in here with you. The others seem to be managing.  What's up with that.  Or some other professional type comment.  

[Meghzie]

On 3/6/2018 at 2:27 PM, Galloway Cave said:

Blame that on TLC's description. They said it was an unproven alternative treatment, which implies something whacko that hasn't been used or had any measurable results yet. Instead the Browns took her to a type of treatment that does have a record of proven results, although the results appear to be all over the board and in most cases seems to be temporary and negligible. Even the girl they filmed had good results at first but had to return to the facility when her curve returned. As Ysabel's own doctor said, it couldn't hurt and at least she learns some exercises to help with her core strength. At $9000 a pop, I hope their insurance pays for all of it.

In the medical world, this is an unproven treatment. (As far as I’ve found) It has no external tests done on it, no peer reviewed articles on the results or method, no long term studies etc. The results are all based on testimonials. This is also why I am 99.999999999% sure their insurance did not cover it. It’s like pulling teeth to get physical therapy and chiropractic covered for “evidence based” practices, something like this would be a nightmare. 

I’m not saying they shouldn’t try it, or that it’s wrong or neglectful or anything. I’ve done many alternative treatments in my life. But the TLC description is technically accurate. 

The title of the episode however... no clue what that’s referring to. 

2 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

And the common denominator in the therapy is Meri.  I wonder if Nancy ever calls her out on her mess and says people comes in here with you. The others seem to be managing.  What's up with that.  Or some other professional type comment.  

Nancy has a pretty sweet set up. I mean, she probably makes $50-100 an hour. She working with a man with relationship problems with 4 wives, the whole group, each wife has their individual problems, and then interwife problems...

no wonder she just smiles smuggly as they make no progress and go around in circles. 

[lookeyloo]

@Meghzie - she isn't worth a crap as a therapist.  If she is doing it for the money that is unethical.  Or, it is all staged and she isn't really a licensed mental health professional.  Maybe she is a religious counselor.  do they need credentials other than religious training?  Anyone know if Nancy is real?

[Galloway Cave]

16 minutes ago, Meghzie said:

In the medical world, this is an unproven treatment.

So I WAS right to get cranky? I give up!

[Mothra]

What gripes me about Ysabel's treatment is that we have heard the chiropractor say, flat-out say, that they expect to if not cure her at least make her curvature less.  And this is horseshit.  The orthopedist who told her parents that such treatment wouldn't hurt (and it was clear that they were going ahead with it regardless of what he told them) said that some good might come of strengthening Ysabel's core--that is, the muscles supporting her spine.  The only one saying this treatment will do anything to her spine is the fucking lying chiropractor.

We rail against insurance companies, usually for very good reasons, but the fact is that sometimes they are right not to reimburse for insane unproven expensive treatments.  Poor Ysabel!  Her hopes have been so inflated by this charlatan.

I am sure the surgery is really tough, and few people want scars, but I know a woman in her 40s whose scoliosis was not treated, and she is truly disabled by the curvature of her spine.  I am positive she would trade the worst scar for the ability to stand up straight, to be in less pain, and to be able to wear clothes that do not have to be altered to accommodate her disability.

People who are opposed to certain medical procedures often make a big deal about how grotesque the procedure itself actually is, but almost every invasive medical procedure is grotesque to those of us outside the profession.  Let me tell you about my sinus surgeries.

[Gothish520]

30 minutes ago, kicotan said:

Fixed that for ya'! Lol

Nancy is a terrible therapist. She is merely a communication facilitator-in that Meri can't bring herself to communicate effectively with her husband/wives so she drags them to Nancy, who validates her and encourages her to not change a thing about herself.

Any therapist worth her salt would be calling Meri out on her bullshit.

Yes yes, well-said! 

[LilWharveyGal]

26 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

Anyone know if Nancy is real?

Yes, Virginia, there is a Nancy.  She has a master's in marriage and family therapy.

[Kohola3]

48 minutes ago, LilWharveyGal said:

She has a master's in marriage and family therapy.

From a Cracker Jack box?  Comic book?  Seriously, that babe is horrible.

[DragonFaerie]

50 minutes ago, LilWharveyGal said:

 She has a master's in marriage and family therapy.

 

1 minute ago, Kohola3 said:

From a Cracker Jack box?  Comic book?  Seriously, that babe is horrible.

I'm guessing from the same school that Jill Duggar Dillard got her midwife degree.  Shudders

[lookeyloo]

Well I’m glad I don’t have to use Nancy. There is no,excuse for what she puts forth on the show. If they require limits then she should not do it. I wonder if anyone has complained to her licensing body or are they okay with it. 

[xwordfanatik]

2 hours ago, Meghzie said:

In the medical world, this is an unproven treatment. (As far as I’ve found) It has no external tests done on it, no peer reviewed articles on the results or method, no long term studies etc. The results are all based on testimonials. This is also why I am 99.999999999% sure their insurance did not cover it. It’s like pulling teeth to get physical therapy and chiropractic covered for “evidence based” practices, something like this would be a nightmare. 

I’m not saying they shouldn’t try it, or that it’s wrong or neglectful or anything. I’ve done many alternative treatments in my life. But the TLC description is technically accurate. 

The title of the episode however... no clue what that’s referring to. 

Nancy has a pretty sweet set up. I mean, she probably makes $50-100 an hour. She working with a man with relationship problems with 4 wives, the whole group, each wife has their individual problems, and then interwife problems...

no wonder she just smiles smuggly as they make no progress and go around in circles. 

It seems to me that Nancy is the type of therapist that likes the TV exposure, and wants to keep that going.  Just tell Meri what she wants to hear (in other words, VALIDATE what Meri says) and never tell Meri what she DOESN'T want to hear, and won't accept.  If Meri quits going, well, Nancy just might lose the TLC cash, and the whole Bloomin' Brown Bunch (thank you Robert Reed) will quit going to Nancy, since the rest of them seem to be able to muddle through the plyg life OK.  YMMV

Edited March 7, 2018 by xwordfanatik
never mind

[Pingaponga]

I'm going to assume that Nancy looks so ineffective because she has no idea how to properly counsel people in a polygamist marriage.  I'd assume they don't cover that in her Masters program.  Of course, I'm not too sure anyone knows how to properly counsel people in a polygamist marriage.  While meeting with people in twos works (obviously) when dealing with a traditional marriage, I'd think you're missing out on other dynamics when you approach relationships in a polygamist marriage the same way.  Because while yes, Kody and Meri sort of have a relationship separate from the other wives, it is going to be affected by his relationships with his other wives and her relationships with the other wives.

But I could be wrong.  My only experience with any of this is the marriage counselor my husband and I saw for a year about 12 years ago.

[xwordfanatik]

1 hour ago, Mothra said:

What gripes me about Ysabel's treatment is that we have heard the chiropractor say, flat-out say, that they expect to if not cure her at least make her curvature less.  And this is horseshit.  The orthopedist who told her parents that such treatment wouldn't hurt (and it was clear that they were going ahead with it regardless of what he told them) said that some good might come of strengthening Ysabel's core--that is, the muscles supporting her spine.  The only one saying this treatment will do anything to her spine is the fucking lying chiropractor.

We rail against insurance companies, usually for very good reasons, but the fact is that sometimes they are right not to reimburse for insane unproven expensive treatments.  Poor Ysabel!  Her hopes have been so inflated by this charlatan.

I am sure the surgery is really tough, and few people want scars, but I know a woman in her 40s whose scoliosis was not treated, and she is truly disabled by the curvature of her spine.  I am positive she would trade the worst scar for the ability to stand up straight, to be in less pain, and to be able to wear clothes that do not have to be altered to accommodate her disability.

People who are opposed to certain medical procedures often make a big deal about how grotesque the procedure itself actually is, but almost every invasive medical procedure is grotesque to those of us outside the profession.  Let me tell you about my sinus surgeries.

I had a totally blocked sinus (forehead) in my 20's, and even the pain from childbirth + and a root canal wouldn't equal that agony.  I cannot relate to what you experienced, but my sinus pain was by far the worst I've ever had.  I'm very thankful I've not had anything like that, since.  I wish you the best.

[lookeyloo]

19 minutes ago, Pingaponga said:

I'm going to assume that Nancy looks so ineffective because she has no idea how to properly counsel people in a polygamist marriage.  I'd assume they don't cover that in her Masters program.  Of course, I'm not too sure anyone knows how to properly counsel people in a polygamist marriage.  While meeting with people in twos works (obviously) when dealing with a traditional marriage, I'd think you're missing out on other dynamics when you approach relationships in a polygamist marriage the same way.  Because while yes, Kody and Meri sort of have a relationship separate from the other wives, it is going to be affected by his relationships with his other wives and her relationships with the other wives.

But I could be wrong.  My only experience with any of this is the marriage counselor my husband and I saw for a year about 12 years ago.

If this situation is not something she is equipped to handle she should do some research and refer them to to someone who is. 

[tabloidlover]

4 hours ago, Galloway Cave said:

So I WAS right to get cranky? I give up!

 

3 hours ago, Mothra said:

What gripes me about Ysabel's treatment is that we have heard the chiropractor say, flat-out say, that they expect to if not cure her at least make her curvature less.  And this is horseshit.  The orthopedist who told her parents that such treatment wouldn't hurt (and it was clear that they were going ahead with it regardless of what he told them) said that some good might come of strengthening Ysabel's core--that is, the muscles supporting her spine.  The only one saying this treatment will do anything to her spine is the fucking lying chiropractor.

We rail against insurance companies, usually for very good reasons, but the fact is that sometimes they are right not to reimburse for insane unproven expensive treatments.  Poor Ysabel!  Her hopes have been so inflated by this charlatan.

I am sure the surgery is really tough, and few people want scars, but I know a woman in her 40s whose scoliosis was not treated, and she is truly disabled by the curvature of her spine.  I am positive she would trade the worst scar for the ability to stand up straight, to be in less pain, and to be able to wear clothes that do not have to be altered to accommodate her disability.

People who are opposed to certain medical procedures often make a big deal about how grotesque the procedure itself actually is, but almost every invasive medical procedure is grotesque to those of us outside the profession.  Let me tell you about my sinus surgeries.

This is what is so infuriating.   It was clear as day on both Kody and Christine's faces that all of their hopes were pinned on this camp fixing poor Ysabel.   All I was DENIAL...

[neh]

6 hours ago, kicotan said:

Fixed that for ya'! Lol

Nancy is a terrible therapist. She is merely a communication facilitator-in that Meri can't bring herself to communicate effectively with her husband/wives so she drags them to Nancy, who validates her and encourages her to not change a thing about herself.

Any therapist worth her salt would be calling Meri out on her bullshit.

BUT we don't actually see much of what Nancy says to her clients, Perhaps she is gently trying to guide Meri to some semblance of self-awareness, if so,  Nancy sure has a long road ahead of her

[kicotan]

23 minutes ago, neh said:

BUT we don't actually see much of what Nancy says to her clients, Perhaps she is gently trying to guide Meri to some semblance of self-awareness, if so,  Nancy sure has a long road ahead of her

I've not kept track of how long Nancy has been on retainer for the Brown Family, but it has, conservatively, been multiple YEARS already.  I'm willing to concede that she's comfortable with being "gentle" to Meri, but having a long road ahead of her also increases her BL.

I think that the portrayal of Nancy being someone to go to when Meri wants to communicate with her husband/wives as a stand alone prop for the show doesn't help with my negative perception of Nancy.  If Meri really is aware that she needs therapy to help her learn to cope/communicate in a healthy way, then that should be evidenced by her attendance at regular sessions, goals being set, progress being made, that sort of thing.  Not that they would have to film sessions, but if Meri included in her narrative on the show how she is working with her therapist regarding her vulnerability to/responsibility for the cat fishing incident, communication and intimacy resolution with her husband and/or wife/wives, issues with her daughter, etc. maybe it wouldn't seem so superficial and placating on Nancy's part.

[ghoulina]

14 hours ago, Pingaponga said:

I'm going to assume that Nancy looks so ineffective because she has no idea how to properly counsel people in a polygamist marriage.  I'd assume they don't cover that in her Masters program.  Of course, I'm not too sure anyone knows how to properly counsel people in a polygamist marriage.  While meeting with people in twos works (obviously) when dealing with a traditional marriage, I'd think you're missing out on other dynamics when you approach relationships in a polygamist marriage the same way.  Because while yes, Kody and Meri sort of have a relationship separate from the other wives, it is going to be affected by his relationships with his other wives and her relationships with the other wives.

But I could be wrong.  My only experience with any of this is the marriage counselor my husband and I saw for a year about 12 years ago.

I am not one to talk, ZERO training in therapy, but I am not sure what would be so hard about it. Human relationships are always messy and complicated. People go to therapy with their siblings, parents, etc. Many families have very intricate relationships, tons of dysfunction. I would approach this like that. At the end of the day, no matter what rules these 5 agreed to, jealousy is jealousy. Hurt is hurt. Communication is vital. 

I think Nancy is a quack. I don't know if she's doing this for the exposure or has some reason to be scared of Meri, but she never tells her ONE negative thing. Not one. I'm of the opinion that no therapist worth their salt would agree to continual onscreen therapy. So that may bias me against her a bit. But I don't think she's fair in the sessions I see. 

[Kohola3]

2 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I'm of the opinion that no therapist worth their salt would agree to continual onscreen therapy.

I agree. If she thinks it will increase her case load, her totally ineffectual "counseling" would send anyone with half a brain fleeing in the opposite direction.  I always give the side eye to professionals who hook up with D rated "stars" for the exposure.  I'd avoid her at all costs just for that.

[Mindthinkr]

When I think about the fact that Ysabel is not going to get standard medical treatment for her scoliosis it makes me wonder how Morman that they are. The refusal of sane medical treatment sounds more like Christian Scientists or (shudder) Scientology. They have a big fan base. Begin a Go Fund Me Page or use some of your paycheck to buy insurance for her. I guess them cashing in those TLC dollars makes their income too be for state or federal funded help. Poor child. 

[SongbirdHollow]

19 hours ago, Meghzie said:

 

The title of the episode however... no clue what that’s referring to.

I didn't watch but maybe it refers to Kody's true feelings about Meri. 

[Gothish520]

27 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

When I think about the fact that Ysabel is not going to get standard medical treatment for her scoliosis it makes me wonder how Morman that they are. The refusal of sane medical treatment sounds more like Christian Scientists or (shudder) Scientology. They have a big fan base. Begin a Go Fund Me Page or use some of your paycheck to buy insurance for her. I guess them cashing in those TLC dollars makes their income too be for state or federal funded help. Poor child. 

But Ysabel is and has been getting standard medical treatment. I think that was made quite clear in the episode. She has a medical doctor, who said that the alternative therapy was fine to try while waiting to see the progress of Ysabel's curvature. Sorry if I keep harping on this, but every time someone says that the Browns are trying some woo instead of getting proper medical care, I feel I have to point out that it was shown that she IS getting the proper care - she is just not a candidate for surgery yet.

BTW, my maternal grandmother was a Christian Scientist - don't get me started! LOL!

[Adiba]

31 minutes ago, SongbirdHollow said:

I didn't watch but maybe it refers to Kody's true feelings about Meri. 

I saw some of this episode again on a repeat this morning, and yes, I think it’s referring to Kody’s truth about his relationship with Meri. He does not want (at least at this time) a romantic relationship with her, nor does he even want a deep, intimate, “confidante” friendship with her. He thought they were “done.” That is the most truthful I have ever heard him be about his relationship with Meri.

I also thought Kody was letting Meri know that the trip to Parowan would not in any way be a romantic getaway or the beginning of more intimacy right now. I think Meri was in some way hoping for that, or at least starting to rekindle some of those feelings.

[Sandy W]

5 minutes ago, Adiba said:

I saw some of this episode again on a repeat this morning, and yes, I think it’s referring to Kody’s truth about his relationship with Meri. He does not want (at least at this time) a romantic relationship with her, nor does he even want a deep, intimate, “confidante” friendship with her. He thought they were “done.” That is the most truthful I have ever heard him be about his relationship with Meri.

I also thought Kody was letting Meri know that the trip to Parowan would not in any way be a romantic getaway or the beginning of more intimacy right now. I think Meri was in some way hoping for that, or at least starting to rekindle some of those feelings.

Chances are that Kody (and Robyn) either insisted that they make the 10 hour round trip in one day or that they reserve separate rooms at the Inn.

[Meghzie]

1 hour ago, SongbirdHollow said:

I didn't watch but maybe it refers to Kody's true feelings about Meri. 

 

27 minutes ago, Adiba said:

I saw some of this episode again on a repeat this morning, and yes, I think it’s referring to Kody’s truth about his relationship with Meri. He does not want (at least at this time) a romantic relationship with her, nor does he even want a deep, intimate, “confidante” friendship with her. He thought they were “done.” That is the most truthful I have ever heard him be about his relationship with Meri.

I also thought Kody was letting Meri know that the trip to Parowan would not in any way be a romantic getaway or the beginning of more intimacy right now. I think Meri was in some way hoping for that, or at least starting to rekindle some of those feelings.

Haha, I didn’t think of that, because I didn’t realize it was suppose to be a secret. It’s been blatantly obvious all season+

[Kohola3]

23 minutes ago, Sandy W said:

....make the 10 hour round trip in one day...

Ten hours locked together in a car - that ought to make 'em or break 'em.  My bet is that only one would come back alive.

[Adiba]

2 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Ten hours locked together in a car - that ought to make 'em or break 'em.  My bet is that only one would come back alive.

Now that you mention it, what is it with Meri and people driving together? She and Jenelle apparently can’t be in the same car together when they go to see Nancy, and it was a big “dill” that she and Kody drove to Nancy’s together. Weird, imo.

[RedheadZombie]

I finally saw the episode, and I feel so much for Ysabel.  I hope she's comfortable with what's being shown.  I had JRA, and I remember being horribly embarrassed by others viewing my x-rays, because the shadow of my breasts were visible.  Ysabel looks to have started developing significantly this last year, and this has to be killing her body image.  I think it's telling that she's worried about looking "bigger" with the brace when almost all of her female siblings are bigger than her - even Savannah has gained quite a bit.  So this is one of the smallest girls seeing herself as "big" and that's fertile ground for a possible eating disorder.  

On ‎3‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 7:49 AM, Granny58 said:

this cannot be emphasized enough.   So, even though Meri agreed to polygamy, we all know she only agreed to keep Kody and ended up regretting it.  She is lonely!  If a highlight of your journey is that you and your (ex)husband drove in the same car, that's pathetic.  RUN MERI RUN!  If you're doing everything alone anyway, you're halfway there.  And given that the children do not want to be polygamous, they've already seen through the mess that is this lifestyle and eventually would support you (the ones you have relationships with, anyway, because I assume you must have a few).  

 

When he said that he and Meri only lasted as long as they did because of polygamy, I think he's got it backwards.  If they had been monogamous AND committed to "until death do us part," then all HIS efforts would have gone toward Meri and they may actually have had a good relationship.  Imagine having a fight with your spouse, who then is gone for 3 days having a relationship with another person/people.  You are just going to eat your feelings, push down the issues and keep it sweet.  It is a TERRIBLE lifestyle, especially for the first wife.  

 

As for scar-gate...I type surgical reports.  Day in and day out like an assembly line people come in for back surgeries with long incisions.  It's not really a big deal.  

I'm in complete agreement.  Polygamy allowed this relationship to suffer in the first place because Kody had other wives.  And the biggest mistake was ignoring the problem, and then bringing in the new wife and only breeder.  Robyn became Kody's hiding out place, which had been Mary's house, and it seems pretty clear he's simply ignored Meri except when he felt like insulting her - with Robyn encouraging this behavior.  And since Robyn is ambitious, she helped rid Meri of the honorary title of only legal wife.  While I believe Robyn really cares for Meri, I think she saw a weakness in their polygamy structure (weak male leader, demoralized first wife) and seized her opportunity.  She now wallows in her power and I enjoy watching her bust Kody's chops and side with the other wives.  I hope she cuts him off sexually and kicks Kody to the dog house.  I almost admire Robyn's naked ambition and ability to seize the power over the three first wives.  Sort of reminds me of Nicki's mom, Adaleen, on Big Love.  And the fact that she set herself up as the Kody whisperer, she seems to act as intermediary of the other wives and Kody.  She's obviously been taught brilliantly at her polygamist's mother's knee.  So kudos? And if they move from Las Vegas, it will only be if Robyn wishes.  

[TurtlePower]

4 hours ago, Adiba said:

I saw some of this episode again on a repeat this morning, and yes, I think it’s referring to Kody’s truth about his relationship with Meri. He does not want (at least at this time) a romantic relationship with her, nor does he even want a deep, intimate, “confidante” friendship with her. He thought they were “done.” That is the most truthful I have ever heard him be about his relationship with Meri.

I also thought Kody was letting Meri know that the trip to Parowan would not in any way be a romantic getaway or the beginning of more intimacy right now. I think Meri was in some way hoping for that, or at least starting to rekindle some of those feelings.

 Watching her try and "fix" her relationship with him is truly pathetic--she sealed her fate when she wanted to run off with what she thought was a good looking rich guy (and then played victim). They're all sick of her games and narcissism and they're finally doing what I've been hoping they'd do for years--showing her the door.

Edited to add: Meri has some nerve. She isolates herself from the family but gets all sad when they pull away from HER. She wants them to chase her down the block but instead, they'll be running back inside to change the locks. 

Edited March 8, 2018 by TurtlePower

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎3‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 8:24 PM, KateHearts said:

What the HELL is going on with Kody's hair? He looks psychotic.  As far as the concern about the scoliosis?  There are so many much, much worse things to over-dramatize.

Kody's taken years to deteriorate to this state, but look at Caleb's change within a year.   Maybe he really does idolize Kody? 

With Kody's chin scruff he's looking very goat-like to me, whereas Caleb looks like a man who lives with a bear and has no access to soap.

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 11:56 AM, KeeperOfTheIce said:

Unless there is a noticeable deformity or caught during a routine physical most of the time it goes unnoticed.  Girls at that age are awkward anyway - some with poor posture, shy and still not used to changing body so they stay covered up - difficult for a parent to notice a deformity unless the kid is in a bathing suit.  As goofy as the Browns are I wouldn’t fault them on missing this.  With the kids not attending a public school until later they probably were never screened - in Texas kids are screened in 6th & 9th grade - all states have some kind of required screening in public schools. 

The thing I find most irritating is the putting off of the surgery.  I’m a pediatric nurse and have taken care of many kids after scoli surgery - majority of the time the prognosis is great and all the pain of surgery and the tough recovery is so worth it in the end.  The surgery is no joke - very painful, the kids are in ICU for at least 24 hours then spend average of 5 days in the hospital.  

The whole scar convo - geez, having a scar down the back should be the least of your worries.  These people need to get their priorities straight. 

As a nurse I definitely share your concern.  But I'm in the middle of watching the episode and the doctor informed them that surgery will not be done until Ysabel reaches 50% curvature, and he implied that won't happen for another year (not sure how he came up with that).  He also said that wearing of the brace really weakens the core, so an exercise regimen is a good thing.  If anything, I think they're simply wasting their money, not making the situation worse.  But Ysabel seems to be happy out of that daytime brace - which was completely ineffective - and actively working on strengthening her body.  I didn't get the impression they were not planning on the regimented follow up with the surgeon, or deciding against surgery when that time comes.

I think the fear of scarring is pretty realistic in a girl her age.  I think Ysabel would be served by meeting post-scoliosis surgery patients, and seeing them confidently display their scars.  I once would have feared the scarring as well.  Then I worked with a young woman who had a catastrophic accident where her own co-workers didn't recognize who she was.  She came back to work and dressed in such a way that did not attempt to hide her facial, chest, arm scarring and it immediately made an impression on me.

[Globegrl]

6 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

When I think about the fact that Ysabel is not going to get standard medical treatment for her scoliosis it makes me wonder how Morman that they are. The refusal of sane medical treatment sounds more like Christian Scientists or (shudder) Scientology. They have a big fan base. Begin a Go Fund Me Page or use some of your paycheck to buy insurance for her. I guess them cashing in those TLC dollars makes their income too be for state or federal funded help. Poor child. 

Ysabel is most definitely going to get standard medical treatment - the surgery - when she reaches the 50 degree point.  That point was made totally clear by Kody and Christine.

[laurakaye]

18 hours ago, kicotan said:

I've not kept track of how long Nancy has been on retainer for the Brown Family, but it has, conservatively, been multiple YEARS already.  I'm willing to concede that she's comfortable with being "gentle" to Meri, but having a long road ahead of her also increases her BL.

I think that the portrayal of Nancy being someone to go to when Meri wants to communicate with her husband/wives as a stand alone prop for the show doesn't help with my negative perception of Nancy.  If Meri really is aware that she needs therapy to help her learn to cope/communicate in a healthy way, then that should be evidenced by her attendance at regular sessions, goals being set, progress being made, that sort of thing.  Not that they would have to film sessions, but if Meri included in her narrative on the show how she is working with her therapist regarding her vulnerability to/responsibility for the cat fishing incident, communication and intimacy resolution with her husband and/or wife/wives, issues with her daughter, etc. maybe it wouldn't seem so superficial and placating on Nancy's part.

Exactly this.  Instead, all we see are Meri and Nancy doing the two-step around the ginormous elephant in the room, which is that Meri is a polygamists's wife but in her mind she is in a monogamous marriage.  The topics of therapy should include jealousy, passive-aggressiveness, loneliness, empty-nest syndrome, peri-menopause, what have you.  Instead we watch Meri stumble over how she is dilling with her fillings, and all the while ignoring the fact that she wants Kody, he divorced her, and she seriously considered running off with a gorgeous millionaire to the point where she told her family that she was bailing.  And yet, it's all Meri babbling nonsense and non-sequitur, and Nancy nodding sagely.  I agree with the bolded lines so much - if Meri took an ounce of ownership for her own misery, she might actually get some help from therapy.  And Nancy should be holding Meri accountable.  We never see this and it's likely we never will.  We're supposed to think that Meri is working on herself because she goes to therapy.  That's like saying Janelle is working on herself because she owns a business called "Strive."

Morons, all of them.

[xwordfanatik]

4 hours ago, Adiba said:

Now that you mention it, what is it with Meri and people driving together? She and Jenelle apparently can’t be in the same car together when they go to see Nancy, and it was a big “dill” that she and Kody drove to Nancy’s together. Weird, imo.

The common denominator is Meri.  I wouldn't ride anywhere with Meri.  She makes everything about her, always.

[Gothish520]

1 hour ago, laurakaye said:

all we see are Meri and Nancy doing the two-step around the ginormous elephant in the room, which is that Meri is a polygamists's wife but in her mind she is in a monogamous marriage.  The topics of therapy should include jealousy, passive-aggressiveness, loneliness, empty-nest syndrome, peri-menopause, what have you.  Instead we watch Meri stumble over how she is dilling with her fillings, and all the while ignoring the fact that she wants Kody, he divorced her, and she seriously considered running off with a gorgeous millionaire to the point where she told her family that she was bailing.  And yet, it's all Meri babbling nonsense and non-sequitur, and Nancy nodding sagely.  I agree with the bolded lines so much - if Meri took an ounce of ownership for her own misery, she might actually get some help from therapy.  And Nancy should be holding Meri accountable.  We never see this and it's likely we never will.  We're supposed to think that Meri is working on herself because she goes to therapy. 

 "and Nancy nodding sagely" - so true!

I would love for Nancy to look directly at Meri and ask her point-blank "Meri, how do you think Kody (and the rest of your family) felt when they found out you were engaged in an online emotional affair with someone you believed to be a man named "Sam"? And also, "Meri, if "Sam" turned out to be real and things progressed, would you have left the family to be with him?"  

[Meghzie]

2 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I finally saw the episode, and I feel so much for Ysabel.  I hope she's comfortable with what's being shown.  I had JRA, and I remember being horribly embarrassed by others viewing my x-rays, because the shadow of my breasts were visible.  Ysabel looks to have started developing significantly this last year, and this has to be killing her body image.  I think it's telling that she's worried about looking "bigger" with the brace when almost all of her female siblings are bigger than her - even Savannah has gained quite a bit.  So this is one of the smallest girls seeing herself as "big" and that's fertile ground for a possible eating disorder.    

This is a good point. She sees all of her moms struggling with weight, and most of her sisters. And the sister closest to her in she, Gwen, has a very different natural body type and is tiny. It must be really hard. 

It’s also compounded by the fact that he dad’s favourite wife is the one that is thinnest. Meri was on top in the first season, and she was smallest. Then Robyn came along and was thinnest and hot and the favourite wife. Now Robyn is struggling with post partum weight, and Christine looks amazing and has lost weight (and isn’t eating nachos any more) and is the favourite. 

Kids aren’t dumb. At some level these things sink in. 

[TurtlePower]

12 hours ago, Gothish520 said:

 "and Nancy nodding sagely" - so true!

I would love for Nancy to look directly at Meri and ask her point-blank "Meri, how do you think Kody (and the rest of your family) felt when they found out you were engaged in an online emotional affair with someone you believed to be a man named "Sam"? And also, "Meri, if "Sam" turned out to be real and things progressed, would you have left the family to be with him?"  

This is what I dislike about Nancy--she never asks really hard questions. Meri absolutely was going to leave but when she finally accepted that "Sam" wasn't real, she had nowhere to go but back to pick up the pieces of her damaged relationships (and deflect blame). 

I hope something blows up at the end of this season. For all of her sitting on the pot and not shitting, something's got to give. 

[Kyanight]

1 hour ago, TurtlePower said:

This is what I dislike about Nancy--she never asks really hard questions. Meri absolutely was going to leave but when she finally accepted that "Sam" wasn't real, she had nowhere to go but back to pick up the pieces of her damaged relationships (and deflect blame). 

I hope something blows up at the end of this season. For all of her sitting on the pot and not shitting, something's got to give. 

I'm thinking she asks the harder questions in private.  She has to respect what the family wants shown on TV.   TLC may film this crap, but the family chooses who they hire.

[Kohola3]

10 minutes ago, Kyanight said:

I'm thinking she asks the harder questions in private.  She has to respect what the family wants shown on TV. 

But doesn't she realize, in doing so, how badly she looks?  Why would anyone go to her as a therapist when she's an epic fail with the Brown Clowns and it's broadcast on nationwide TV?  Are they her only clients?

[Kyanight]

6 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

But doesn't she realize, in doing so, how badly she looks?  Why would anyone go to her as a therapist when she's an epic fail with the Brown Clowns and it's broadcast on nationwide TV?  Are they her only clients?

Yeah, I thought of those questions also.  But with HIPAA, I highly doubt they can do anything REAL on TV.  I believe this crap is just for show.

[Sandy W]

18 minutes ago, Kyanight said:

I'm thinking she asks the harder questions in private.  She has to respect what the family wants shown on TV.   TLC may film this crap, but the family chooses who they hire.

Nancy may ask harder questions in private but her questions and advice on resolutions appear to be lacking.  The Brown's have stated that they engaged a family therapist before the program started.  Probably 10 years or more of therapy and 10's of thousands of dollars spent and Janelle and Meri still can't drive a few miles in the same car.

[Kyanight]

1 minute ago, Sandy W said:

Nancy may ask harder questions in private but her questions and advice on resolutions appear to be lacking.  The Brown's have stated that they engaged a family therapist before the program started.  Probably 10 years or more of therapy and 10's of thousands of dollars spent and Janelle and Meri still can't drive a few miles in the same car.

Yeah, lol.   I think they have some growing up to do, personally.

[mxmummy]

14 hours ago, Meghzie said:

This is a good point. She sees all of her moms struggling with weight, and most of her sisters. And the sister closest to her in she, Gwen, has a very different natural body type and is tiny. It must be really hard. 

It’s also compounded by the fact that he dad’s favourite wife is the one that is thinnest. Meri was on top in the first season, and she was smallest. Then Robyn came along and was thinnest and hot and the favourite wife. Now Robyn is struggling with post partum weight, and Christine looks amazing and has lost weight (and isn’t eating nachos any more) and is the favourite. 

Kids aren’t dumb. At some level these things sink in. 

For some reason I thought Christine looked liked she had gained a ton of weight in this episode. She looked so much slimmer for Mkelti's wedding. Am I the only one who noticed a difference? Not that it matters, I'm shallow for even mentioning it. But I was really proud of her because she was looking so good! 

[Gothish520]

16 minutes ago, Kyanight said:

Yeah, lol.   I think they have some growing up to do, personally.

Very true.

I have known a few people like Meri. One was once a close friend, one is a family member that I have regular contact with, and one is a different family member's boyfriend. Thankfully, the family member is only mildly like Meri, and she recognizes and admits her behavior and is working on it. 

The friend however - I ended up having to cut ties, because I just couldn't take it anymore. I've heard from mutual friends that she behaved the same way with them and they had to end the relationship as well. These types of people will suck the life right out of you. They present themselves as wonderful people who would give you the shirt off their back, and they very well may, but then you better turn around and give your shirt, pants, and underwear, otherwise you are a rotten person who treats them badly. 

Everything that happens to them is 100x worse than what happens to someone else. Oh, how they've suffered! They give and give, and all anybody else ever does is take. They need constant validation. They are never happier than when someone new comes on the scene, someone who hasn't dealt with their passive-aggressive, me me me nonsense for years, someone who only feels sympathy and hugs them and goes on and on about how awesome they are and how worthy they are and blah blah blah. I witnessed one of these interactions first-hand and I nearly bit my tongue off trying to keep quiet and stay out of it.

[DakotaJustice]

I'm sorry (not really) but Robyn has never been "hot" by any stretch of the imagination. IMO of course, the Hapsberg jaw kills it.

[Meghzie]

58 minutes ago, DakotaJustice said:

I'm sorry (not really) but Robyn has never been "hot" by any stretch of the imagination. IMO of course, the Hapsberg jaw kills it.

It’s all relative when you have 4 wives!

[xwordfanatik]

1 hour ago, DakotaJustice said:

I'm sorry (not really) but Robyn has never been "hot" by any stretch of the imagination. IMO of course, the Hapsberg jaw kills it.

I agree.  She was skinny in the beginning, but it looks like her nose and chin are trying to meet each other, which is NOT hot.  And she's no longer skinny.