S16.E06: David Hogg, Cameron Kasky, Amy Chua, Eric Holder, and Jon Meacham

[tessaray]

David Hogg and Cameron Kasky, Florida shooting survivors, are the top-of-show interview guests. Amy Chua, attorney and author, is the mid-show interview guest. The roundtable guests are former Attorney General Eric Holder and Presidential historian, Jon Meacham. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

There was something very off putting about Cameron. And the way he stared into the camera and slurped whatever was in his mug during Overtime didn’t do him any favors. I think I would have preferred that Emma Gonzalez be one of the students to be interviewed.

I have nothing but respect for what the survivors of the Parkland shooting are doing but both David and Cameron making snarky comments and trying to be funny? Not so much. Because the message I got was Everyone who is an adult sucks and only their generation are doing anything. I’m not explaining myself very well, but I was expecting a more measured interview, if that makes sense?

Love John Meacham. And enjoyed Eric Holder as well. I was sooo glad Bill didn’t have any batshit crazies on tonight.

Amy  Chua. Ugh. She makes me feel stupid because I had NO IDEA what the FUCK she meant with her jazz hands and tribalism talk. Her eyebrows and make-up reminded me of Malificent.

Edited March 3, 2018 by GHScorpiosRule

[sistermagpie]

8 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Because the message I got was Everyone who is an adult sucks and only their generation are doing anything. I’m not explaining myself very well, but I was expecting a more measured interview, if that makes sense?

I think this is unfortunately encouraged by everyone focusing on how young they are. For me, as long as they're old enough to have honestly arrived at their opinions--which all of them clearly are--all that matters is whether their arguments are sound. I heard one girl from the school interviewed and it was such a relief to just hear her say what I wanted someone to say. I didn't care that she was a teenager, it didn't make her more impressive to me because she was just being logical. I mean, there's plenty of adults who have been doing the same work and making the same arguments as these kids for YEARS (like the Sandy Hook parents). I think there's a lot of reasons these survivors are getting heard--it's not just that they're teenagers. But I wonder if the two boys were also playing up that attitude because they were on this show and they've been honing their jokes and want to sound cool.

13 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Amy  Chua. Ugh. She makes me feel stupid because I had NO IDEA what the FUCK she meant with her jazz hands and tribalism talk. Her eyebrows and make-up reminded me of Malificent.

The whole "condescension" thing always seems to ignore the possibility that the condescension is coming from inside the house. Because even when liberals are trying to dialogue or educate people on the other side like she suggested they should they're accused of being condescending. A guy in a Trump hat explains how "libtards" are idiots who don't know what's going on in the world and don't have jobs it's not condescending because it doesn't actually make liberals insecure.

[GHScorpiosRule]

15 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I think this is unfortunately encouraged by everyone focusing on how young they are. For me, as long as they're old enough to have honestly arrived at their opinions--which all of them clearly are--all that matters is whether their arguments are sound. I heard one girl from the school interviewed and it was such a relief to just hear her say what I wanted someone to say. I didn't care that she was a teenager, it didn't make her more impressive to me because she was just being logical. I mean, there's plenty of adults who have been doing the same work and making the same arguments as these kids for YEARS (like the Sandy Hook parents). I think there's a lot of reasons these survivors are getting heard--it's not just that they're teenagers. But I wonder if the two boys were also playing up that attitude because they were on this show and they've been honing their jokes and want to sound cool.

 

Oh I don’t have any issues with their age-I love that the teens are speaking out and demanding change/reform/action.

And I think the bolded is the problem I had-them playing up and wanting to sound cool, when it was so unnecessary.

Edited March 3, 2018 by GHScorpiosRule

[sistermagpie]

1 minute ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Oh I don’t have any issues with their age-I love that the teens are speaking out and demanding change/reform/action.

And I think the bolded is the problem I had-them playing up and wanting to sound cool, when it was so unnecessary.

Oh yeah, I didn't think you had a problem with it. I just thought maybe they were playing up the whole "you fucked up the world and we'll fix it" because so many other people have leaned into the "the kids will save us!" thing to talk about them. I think I know exactly the moments you were reacting to on this show here they were trying to sound cool and funny etc.

[ichbin]

55 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

There was something very off putting about Cameron. And the way he stared into the camera and slurped whatever was in his mug during Overtime didn’t do him any favors. I think I would have preferred that Emma Gonzalez be one of the students to be interviewed.

I have nothing but respect for what the survivors of the Parkland shooting are doing but both David and Cameron making snarky comments and trying to be funny? Not so much. Because the message I got was Everyone who is an adult sucks and only their generation are doing anything. I’m not explaining myself very well, but I was expecting a more measured interview, if that makes sense?

Glad to see it wasn't only me thinking this.  So many of the students who survived the attack I saw speaking on TV were so impressive.  They were impassioned but also mature, thoughtful, intelligent, and articulate.  Playing to the cameras and Bill made these two guys look immature, and that can undermine any message they hope to convey.  Amy Chua touched on that when she was speaking about people going underground. Both sides on any matter need to listen and consider.  These two young men need to recognize that as well. 

All I knew about Amy Chua was the Tiger Mom stuff.  I thought her message was actually on point.  She made a lot of good and valid points.  I do agree that her gesticulating and facial expressions were a bit much though.  Maybe it plays off better in a classroom than up close.  

Edited March 3, 2018 by ichbin
clarify

[Caseysgirl]

I think I had a similar reaction to the posters above where I think these young men are starting to believe the hype and have done one interview too many and they are starting to dilute their message by coming off as smug.  

[wknt3]

I have to push back a little bit at all the criticism of the Parkland kids here. I think they did fine, and if they maybe were a bit too glib or quippy at times, many professional politicians and adult activists have been drawn in that direction by Bill before. I never come into a Real Time interview expecting nuance and complexity, and if they didn't follow Bill's lead and stuck unwaveringly to their message, no matter what he asked they would have come off as phony with too much media training as we've seen so many times before on this show. If there was a problem it was Bill's lack of range as an interviewer.

The rest of the show was pretty good, mostly as a result of great guests. I would have loved to have seen them break format either on the show or Overtime and just focused on gun control since they had survivors, Obama's AG, and a historian with lots of relative expertise. That is an incredible match of topic and guests and it seemed like such a waste for Bill to be in such a hurry to move on.

[HelenBaby]

Maybe David & Cameron appeared polished but they have a unique perspective  in that they are children of law enforcement officers. I appreciated what they had to say, but I haven’t been glued to the news coverage and not over exposed to their message. I’m a baby boomer and I’ll admit my generation hasn’t lived up to the potential we demonstrated in our youth. 

[sistermagpie]

11 hours ago, ichbin said:

Amy Chua touched on that when she was speaking about people going underground. Both sides on any matter need to listen and consider.  These two young men need to recognize that as well. 

The funny thing is that once again, the right has no problem whatsoever calling the left racist. They do it all the time, saying social programs are like slavery, that the Democrats were the racist party back in the Klan's heyday, that pro-choice laws are sexist, etc. etc. That just never gets talked about as insulting because nobody actually believes it. Where as the media has avoided calling Trump voters racist so diligently that "economic anxiety" has become a joke word for bigotry. When they did actual studies the bigotry was what really seemed to drive them. And I get what she means about how people need to be able to talk about their anxieties, but it seems to me that the much bigger problem with that isn't that the Left immediately says these anxieties are racist without giving the a constructive way to deal with them, but that the right is right there with a self-righteous narrative to justify them.

[iMonrey]

I for one would have been happy to see the entire hour devoted to the Parkland kids. Yeah, maybe they're getting a little too media savvy for their own good but they seem to be driving the national conversation in a way it has never moved before. More power to them. I had not heard about the boycott. I agree it's a great idea to go after the money, but how do you boycott Exxon Mobile or the NRA, or the Koch Brothers? I would have liked to hear more about this.

What I would like to see is all high school students across the country collectively protesting by refusing to go back to school until something is done. I mean, what could the schools do to them, suspend them? They'd already be sitting out. They could really have the power in the debate if they organized.

Amy Chua and her ilk are peddling psychobabble without any solutions. Talk about master of the bleeding obvious. We all understand the concept of tribalism, it's not a novel idea. Saying "Oh, we have to come together and listen to one another" is just a lot of kumbaya platitude. It's the same as the Democrats saying they can win elections if they just get out there and talk about their positions. That's just not how it works anymore and sticking your head in the sand and pretending unreasonable people can be reasoned with isn't going to get you anywhere.

I 100% agree with the New Rule about Twitter passing as news. Good god, it's an epidemic. You click on a "news article" and it's just a lot of random tweets from a bunch of nobodies in the Twitterverse. "So and so said this and Twitter exploded!" This passes as news?? Lord help us all. I hope the Parkland kids can tackle this next.

[Mumbles]

Quote

 

Amy  Chua. Ugh. She makes me feel stupid because I had NO IDEA what the FUCK she meant with her jazz hands and tribalism talk. Her eyebrows and make-up reminded me of Malificent.

Nothing she said was particularly novel or insightful. But we knew she was a fameball years ago when she wrote a book about how she told her kids their homemade Mothers Day cards were stupid and not as good as store-bought. Tiger Mom loves attention.

[GoldenGirl90]

Bill is a lot funnier when he has a week or two off.   His monologue was hilarious. Jared Palin, LOL ??????

40 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

 

I for one would have been happy to see the entire hour devoted to the Parkland kids. Yeah, maybe they're getting a little too media savvy for their own good but they seem to be driving the national conversation in a way it has never moved before. More power to them.

 

I agree. As well-spoken as they are, we must  remember that they’re still pretty young. I’m assuming they’re fans of Bill and probably made jokes to appear “cool” to him and his audience. They obviously have some maturing to do but I’m glad they’re speaking out and taking action. 

[ganesh]

13 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I have nothing but respect for what the survivors of the Parkland shooting are doing but both David and Cameron making snarky comments and trying to be funny? Not so much. Because the message I got was Everyone who is an adult sucks and only their generation are doing anything. I’m not explaining myself very well, but I was expecting a more measured interview, if that makes sense?

I thought it was ok because of the forum, which is inherently a comedic show, and because they said they were exhausted from doing all the media and probably needed a release valve. You can't really crack a joke on Face The Nation. Also, they're 17 years old. I did like when the kid plugged his appearance in Spring Awakening. 

One thing I liked from Bill when one of the kids was like "we have guns we're not coming for them". We don't need to qualify everything. No one is repealing the second amendment. Ok, let's move on from that. Are there reasonable restrictions on amendments? Yes. This is no different. That's part of the reason why the alt-right dominates the political debates is because they paint it in binary extreme options. 

 

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Amy Chua and her ilk are peddling psychobabble without any solutions.

I'm done with the 'both sides' canard. It's not both sides, as Bill correctly pointed out that there's no left Fox News, though, sure, there are left leaning news outlets. So? "People should be able to express their anxieties about immigration." Is speech being suppressed anywhere? Because I haven't seen that. And yes, please express yourself. When you say you only want immigration from countries where people look like you; i.e., white, or you're saying people can't come into the country unless they have "something to offer," then, sorry, that is racist and xenophobic, so, yes, I'm going to say that. Same thing if you have "anxiety" that the country is getting less white. Be anxious all you want. It's still happening. I'd suggest that our expanding diversity is going to be healthy for the country with everyone bringing different experiences and backgrounds to the table. 

You don't get a both sides argument if one side is saying that there's certain segments of society that shouldn't have the equal rights and are second class citizens to you. 

 

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

It's the same as the Democrats saying they can win elections if they just get out there and talk about their positions. That's just not how it works anymore and sticking your head in the sand and pretending unreasonable people can be reasoned with isn't going to get you anywhere.

Which is why they're always on the defensive in the political dialogues, which we've said so many times. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 hours ago, HelenBaby said:

Maybe David & Cameron appeared polished but they have a unique perspective  in that they are children of law enforcement officers. I appreciated what they had to say, but I haven’t been glued to the news coverage and not over exposed to their message. I’m a baby boomer and I’ll admit my generation hasn’t lived up to the potential we demonstrated in our youth. 

See I’ve seen them in other interviews as well as the other survivors and I’m with them. I agree with what @iMonrey also said about them driving the national conversation and I actually thought they’d be on the panel until I found the synopsis that said they’d be the interview guests. I guess what I thought I would see more of the David and Cameron I saw in the clips. I think Cameron was on The View last week and he came across better. The View! The reason I’m harping on this is because I hate how they’re all being accused of being Crisis Actors, and that Parkland didn’t even happen. Just as with Sandy Hook. 

I did like this week’s show and New Rules and I did laugh at Bill’s “Jared Palin” joke.

Edited March 3, 2018 by GHScorpiosRule

[ganesh]

I'm getting a little sick of Bill harping on the internet. Yes, it's not news unless a journalist reports it. The rest is entertainment. So what? Before the internet people watched Entertainment Tonight. People like that stuff sometimes. Who cares? 

The more important conversation is raising awareness about the troll farms and bots, and spotting fake news. Russia is going to attack our elections again. The president clearly isn't going to do anything, so it's up to us. 

Fake news doesn't resonate with Trump fans because so much of it is fake. That's demonstrably false and Bill should know that. This is frivolous news, sure. Again, so what? Fake news is a nonargument that butthurt white dudes like to use to deny the reality that they voted for a con man, bad at that, who has done nothing for them, won't ever, except that he's not the back guy or the actual competent woman who most of us voted for. 

Edited March 3, 2018 by ganesh

[ganesh]

Good point on OT about the CDC not being legally allowed to study gun violence as a public health problem. 

I'm not a fan of Billy Graham being laid at the capitol.

Wow Tiger Mom plugging that book hard on OT. 

[littlecatsfeet]

I thought Bill came off as gross with his masterbation and porn jokes with the kids. Maybe I'm being a prude, but...."that's a different kind of shooting, amiright, heh heh" was just....ew.  He was trying too hard to be the "cool dad" or something. The two 17-year-olds showed more maturity than he did IMO; although I'll agree that Cameron was a bit smug & off-putting. I'll chalk it up to exhaustion and attention-bombardment, though. I love that these kids (I hate to call them kids, really) will stand up to any adult trying to BS them.

Tiger Mom and her "both sides" rhetoric can stuff it.

[ganesh]

Yeah that joke was in poor taste in front of minors. 

What's worse is the kids talking about how the FL legislature tabled the gun discussion and moved to the porn discussion knowing full well that's when all the high schoolers were coming to the capitol to demonstrate on the gun issue. 

[revbfc]

I’ve said it before and I’ll repeat myself now:

Bill, STOP TALKING OVER YOUR GUESTS WHEN THEY’RE ANSWERING YOUR QUESTIONS!

 

That is all.

Edited March 4, 2018 by revbfc

[magdalene]

I like the self-confidence of these kids.  I don't mind that they clearly have no deference towards certain of the elected officials. They are going to need every bit of back bone they have  to avoid being bullied and manipulated by those who want to silence them.

[attica]

One thing reliable in all this chaos:  no matter what, lefties Are Doing It Wrong. Should be nicer! Should listen more! Shouldn't sneer at the idiots on the other side. Do you notice that no centrist ever suggests the right should maybe not be racist, or urge them to listen to the left's ideas and arguments? But it works every time, because lefties have chronic Low Idea Esteem. I was therefore delighted that Holder pushed back against the nonsense bothsides stuff from Chua. He has more patience than i do.

This was the first time since I don't know when that Parson Meacham (tm Charlie Pierce, I think) didn't irritate me. I dont know how to feel about that....

[navelgazer]

3 hours ago, attica said:

I was therefore delighted that Holder pushed back against the nonsense both sides stuff from Chua. He has more patience than i do.

That was beautiful.  Holder took her false equivalence and stomped the stuffing out of it.  Bill tried in his questions, but Chua would just say oh, you're so right, and then go right back into her jazz-hands both-sides-do-it routine. 

[ahpny]

Quote

Amy  Chua. Ugh. She makes me feel stupid because I had NO IDEA what the FUCK she meant with her jazz hands and tribalism talk.

Quote

Amy Chua and her ilk are peddling psychobabble without any solutions. Talk about master of the bleeding obvious. We all understand the concept of tribalism, it's not a novel idea. Saying "Oh, we have to come together and listen to one another" is just a lot of kumbaya platitude. 

Amy offered nothing productive or even coherent. Bill has her on seemingly because of her “Tiger Mom” stuff about being tough with children, but she was out of her league here, and less cogent than two 17-olds. She didn’t even do a decent job of plugging her new book - who would read that after listening to her babble endlessly without saying anything. Moreover, it seemed like when others called her on what she was saying, she admitted they had a point, but then never explained why what she said in the first place made any sense. It’s this sort of pseudo-intellectualism that's off-putting and part of the problem. As Bill observed, in hindsight, it’s not hard why many like Trump. The issue is how to reach them and Amy offered nothing other than “be nicer.” Fewer gratuitous references to her Yale professor status might also be a good start too.

Edited March 5, 2018 by ahpny

[ganesh]

It's such a stale argument too. Oh, 'listen to both sides?' How fresh and new! What's actually the other side to assuring we all are protected equally under the law and treating people equally? Because that's the side in control of the government right now. 

When she started talking, she reminded me of the dude in the bar getting schooled by Matt Damon in Good Will Hunting because he read That Book That One Time. 

[TVbitch]

I support them, but I don't think the kids came off that great here. They didn't seem to have much of a plan, and I hope those funding and guiding them will help them to develop an actionable political agenda. I get that they are all fired up about how stupid grown-ups have ruined the world, and yeah, it's true. But what's also true is that the grown-ups of their generation will continue to do so. 

It will be interesting to see what they accomplish after being beat down by the system, apathy, and opposition.  I do hope they are in it for the long haul. 

[Tachi Rocinante]

Small note to the Florida kids - if you're still in high school, you're not a Millennial.  A lot of college kids aren't either.

[ganesh]

They were talking about a boycott but Bill didn't get them to elaborate much. So it seems like there's something of an agenda. 

Edited March 5, 2018 by ganesh

[littlecatsfeet]

I'm sure David & Cameron mentioned this (I'm old and forgetful) but the March For Our Lives is coming on the 24th of this month; both in DC & nationwide. I think the energy & passion will be ongoing, and with summer vacation coming up, will pick up even more steam.  Right now, I think the agenda has mostly to do with voting for change in November, since current lawmakers will do diddly-squat.

Edited March 5, 2018 by littlecatsfeet
grammar counts

[GHScorpiosRule]

3 minutes ago, littlecatsfeet said:

I'm sure David & Cameron mentioned this (I'm old and forgetful) but the March For Our Lives is coming on the 24th of this month; both in DC & nationwide. I think the energy & passion will be ongoing, and with summer vacation coming up, will pick up even more steam.  Right now, I think the agenda has mostly to voting for change in November, since current lawmakers will do diddly-squat.

Yes, they did. Bill couldn't remember or recall what the name of the March was, and both Cameron and David mentioned it.

[lovinbob]

On 3/3/2018 at 11:48 AM, iMonrey said:

I for one would have been happy to see the entire hour devoted to the Parkland kids. Yeah, maybe they're getting a little too media savvy for their own good

 

On 3/3/2018 at 9:37 AM, wknt3 said:

I have to push back a little bit at all the criticism of the Parkland kids here. I think they did fine, and if they maybe were a bit too glib or quippy at times, many professional politicians and adult activists have been drawn in that direction by Bill before. I

I agree that the Parkland kids aren't doing anything that professional politicians and activists do, in terms of going for the one-liner or the funny sound bite, but that's my problem. I wish fewer people resorted to those tactics at all, when it comes to serious debate. Zingers need to be used sparingly to be effective. Cameron bugs me more than David, though.

Does Amy Chua have Bells Palsy or something else wrong with her face? 

[CatMomma]

On 3/4/2018 at 10:01 PM, TVbitch said:

I support them, but I don't think the kids came off that great here. They didn't seem to have much of a plan, and I hope those funding and guiding them will help them to develop an actionable political agenda. I get that they are all fired up about how stupid grown-ups have ruined the world, and yeah, it's true. But what's also true is that the grown-ups of their generation will continue to do so. 

It will be interesting to see what they accomplish after being beat down by the system, apathy, and opposition.  I do hope they are in it for the long haul. 

They are 17 years old. I think they KNOW they don't have the answers. They want the adults to do something. Because, so far, the adults haven't done shit. They may come off as arrogant, but they have been through more than most people can imagine.  Particularly those in power. Ya know, those who want to arm schools while ensuring the Capitol is a gun free zone. 

I guess I'm in the minority. I thought they were great. Actually better than a lot of the Trump surrogates Bill has had on previously. These kids were in a war zone while learning literature and geometry. If they came off as pissed or arrogant, they have that right.

Edited March 6, 2018 by CatMomma

[The Mighty Peanut]

On 3/3/2018 at 9:47 PM, attica said:

One thing reliable in all this chaos:  no matter what, lefties Are Doing It Wrong. Should be nicer! Should listen more! Shouldn't sneer at the idiots on the other side. Do you notice that no centrist ever suggests the right should maybe not be racist, or urge them to listen to the left's ideas and arguments? But it works every time, because lefties have chronic Low Idea Esteem. I was therefore delighted that Holder pushed back against the nonsense bothsides stuff from Chua. He has more patience than i do.

This was the first time since I don't know when that Parson Meacham (tm Charlie Pierce, I think) didn't irritate me. I dont know how to feel about that....

I’m super late to the party, but I had to say YES, THIS. Centrists have two responses: the left needs to bend in some way, and but-both-sides. They NEVER say the right needs to tone it the fuck down.