S02.E23: Unthinkable

[shapeshifter]

The "I love you" reveal was a pretty great moment, played so well by both SA and EBR. She's initially stunned and she's clearly never even contemplated that it could be the case, but then Oliver says "do you understand?" in that urgent, apologetic voice, and I really think she does. She gets why he's saying it, and what he hopes to achieve, and how it will help them beat Slade. Because she's a smarty pants (something I remember saying about her all the way back when she picked up on him telling her she was remarkable, and saying "thank you for remarking on it"), and she understands Oliver. And she's left reeling with hearing those words, but also with understanding what he's asked her to do.

Yes to all that, but...why didn't she jab Slade with the cure at the first possible opportunity???

[BkWurm1]

I feel that those two are now geared to be the endgame pairing. That scene wasn't just the actors playing things up, it was the writing, the directing the music, the whole shebang.

 

This paired with that Tweet from Guggenheim that said yes to Oliver putting the one he loved most deliberately in danger was one of the Unthinkable things makes me also think they are the endgame pairing but I had a similar absolute certain moment following season 5 on Smallville and I'm telling you, it was bad, bad, bad what came instead.  Still haven't recovered. 

 

Yes to all that, but...why didn't she jab Slade with the cure at the first possible opportunity???

 

I'd wait for back up as well.  I laughed when Oliver basically flat out told Slade to watch out for what Felicity was about to do.  A little more subtly would have been nice.  Why draw attention like that? 

[Morrigan2575]

To touch briefly on Laurel, I just feel sorry for Katie Cassidy, now. Because her role on the show has come to feel like it only exists out of pity. Like she's just tagging along with the cool kids, and they're tolerant because they feel bad for her. "Oliver needs you"? He really, really doesn't. And he especially doesn't need her as a wannabe vigilante

 

I am massively surprised at your post...I figured full on rage over the whole Laurel becoming BC aspect

Edited May 15, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[ArctisTor]

To touch briefly on Laurel, I just feel sorry for Katie Cassidy, now. Because her role on the show has come to feel like it only exists out of pity. Like she's just tagging along with the cool kids, and they're tolerant because they feel bad for her. "Oliver needs you"? He really, really doesn't. And he especially doesn't need her as a wannabe vigilante.

 

I was saying to a friend last night the whole thing feels like they're just checking things off a Prerequisite Comics Canon grocery list and with all the fervor that implies.  Here's a black leather jacket and statement how Ollie "needs"  her, now where are the roma tomatoes?  The writing just doesn't feel like it's there, the chemistry isn't there and I'm not buying what Katie Cassidy is trying to sell (when she seems to be trying?  Is she trying?).  It all almost seems perfunctory and so I just can't be bothered with any of it.   

 

I own up to this being my own wild delusion, but I still cling to the fact they keep calling "Arrow's" Black Canary "The Canary" that it could leave the door open to Laurel not necessarily going the way of the traditional Black Canary but a newer, villainous incarnation.  They want to go the way of the unexpected?  They should go the way of the unexpected with Laurel and, frankly, I think they desperately need to.  Regardless of what Cassidy seems to believe re: the future of her character and what EPs have said (EPs say a lot of stuff in interviews, a lot of it is or can end up being bullshit, it's just the nature of TV storytelling and where things can end up going).  I was actually digging Laurel when she was that messy, bitter harpy throwing glasses of booze at people and also the hints she can be really, really manipulative.  I just cannot buy her as this goody-goody hero, even if it's a messed-up, recovering alcoholic goody-goody hero (at least when they remembered she was supposed to be an alcoholic and drug addict, yet more evidence the writing can't seem to be really bothered?).  It's not only because I've seen some of Cassidy's past work and believe that's where her strengths lie (playing the shifty, evil and bitchy characters), but the writing actually seemed invested when it takes Laurel to those darker, messier places, so, in turn, I was invested in it.  Let her rage, let her be nasty, let her be manipulative and blackmail people to get what she wants.  I'm not buying into her would-be Hero's Journey and I seriously doubt I ever will.

 

And yeah, I'm also thinking Oliver/Felicity are being steered towards endgame pairing status or at least be a very serious contender for it.  Much more so than the comics would suggest (or ever suggest since Felicity Smoak doesn't exist in the Green Arrow universe at all, barring "Arrow").  Whether they go Black or White Canary or whatever the hell they end up doing with Laurel, I think the writers definitely have it on the table she and Oliver may not end up together.

 

My pet theory is they've tossed around the idea of a future "Birds of Prey" spin-off, depending on how "The Flash" does, and if that becomes a viable possibility, they ship Laurel-as-BC off to there and leave Sara (or just about anyone else, honestly) the BC of Starling City at Oliver's side.  

 

I don't think they've given up their goes at Laurel/Oliver by any means - Prerequisite Comics Canon Checklist, as I mention above - but... I just don't even think it's bias talking with the reality of the response Oliver/Felicity has had and specifically that "ruse" last night and the stark difference when it comes to just about anything Laurel/Oliver related.  The EPs have undoubtedly seen and experienced it all.  The EPs have repeatedly acknowledged Stephen-Emily's chemistry too, especially recently knowing what was coming, while I don't think they've ever mentioned once at any point in the series anything similar regarding Katie-Stephen.  I think they've since surmised the direction the series will ultimately take and, despite that Checklist, I don't think they or any real kind of significant numbers will balk if they do go the "unexpected" route, at least what we're seeing on-screen regarding "Arrow".  The people that may be pissed off probably not all that much of a concern, considering just how much they've already proven willing to wildly deviate from comics canon.

Edited May 15, 2014 by ArctisTor

[shrewd.buddha]

I mostly liked it, but it was like a kaleidoscope - way too many moving parts - so that nothing really stood out. I believe the show could be better with fewer plotlines and better character writing. Right now there's just a lot of people doing a lot of things, but nothing resonates. 

 

Did not like the Felicity baiting on the sunset beach scene. The lingering went on and on... 

 

Having Det. Lance collapse at the end seemed like waste. That's your cliff-hanger? 

 

Oliver really doesn't give a crap about Thea. "She said she was getting on a bus and leaving town... I'm sure she's fine.. No need to try to call her cell.."

 

It was interesting that they didn't revisit the 'son of Oliver' story line before the end of the season. Again - too much going on.

Edited May 15, 2014 by shrewd.buddha

[Sakura12]

Why a boat though?  I would have thought Sara was boatphobic by now.  Is there a reason the LoA doesn't fly, quite apart from the fact that Nepal/Himalayas is about as far from the ocean as you can get...

 

I wouldn't have been upset if they revealed that badass Sara has a fear of boats. I'd understand that after seeing that she almost drowned twice in boating explosions. It would've made her more human. See, that's character building Arrow writers. Something I haven't seen you do that often. 

[Zalyn]

Wow, very interesting ep with lots to chew on.

 

Given that Quentin rolled his eyes at the Canary Jacket exchange, I'm going to calm myself down by putting that in the same box as the "Speedy!" addressed to Roy.  It's a tease to the comics canon, but they won't go with something that obvious.  *crosses fingers*  Also, when Sara told Laurel that Oliver "needs her," Laurel got this look as if she was thinking, "you're full of shit, he doesn't need me."  Again, I'm going to tell this to myself during the break. 

 

I'm giving myself a cookie for calling Oliver using Felicity as bait. But the love confession - wow.  I had to rewind to see if I was seeing it correctly!  I'm going to fanwank in favor of Olicity and point out that it wasn't a good "fake" confession.  Knowing Oliver, that would have involved heavy-handed smooching and stuff.  Besides the actor chemistry, that was just played too real for it to be completely fake, so I agree with others that it points to real feelings that neither are quite ready to talk about. Well played, too.

 

I'm giving myself (and another poster) a second cookie for calling the Thea/Malcolm interaction.  I still think it would have been funnier if he'd actually hugged her, because John Barrowman hugs would be awesome.  And I'm personally excited that Thea is going off with Malcolm and talking about how she wants to become strong.  It sets her up for some future awesomeness (and possibly villany).  It's tragic and uncomfortable, but I'm looking forward to some good scenes with the two of them in the future.

 

So overall, well done, show!  Surprises and teases, and possibly even some fakeouts before. I'll be back next season.

Edited May 15, 2014 by Zalyn

[Tara Ariano]

Here's Monty's post on the finale!

[statsgirl]

Thinking about it over night, it struck me that the episode was not just about "embracing your destiny" as AK said, but about choosing the partner you trust to risk death with, for you and for her, and who you are willing to face your destiny with.

 

For Diggle, it was Lyla. She came back to save him, they both went to stop ARGUS, knowing that death really could do them part, and they are about to raise a child.  They're not bound in marriage any more, but they're as together as they could be.

 

Oliver chose to face Slade with Felicity.  Maybe the ILU is true, maybe it isn't, but she was the person he listened about a plan that didn't involve killing, she was the one he trusted enough to risk her life in the big attempt to stop Slade and she trusted him to trust her as well as to do the right thing. The symbolism of the island scenes -- Oliver is down in the deep dungeon with Slade and then he comes out into the light and there are Felicity and Diggle. (How did they find a sunny day on the West Coast?)  Felicity is his light and his travelling partner.

 

It sucks that Sara has left to return to the LoA (hopefully only temporarily) but she's left with someone who will guard Sara's life with her own.

 

Thea thought that she trusted Roy and was planning to leave with him; when she found that he too had been lying to her, she went off with Malcolm Meryln to her destiny, not trusting him completely but enough given that she knows he's a psychotic villain.

 

As often is the case, Laurel stuck out like a sore thumb.

 

 

I didn't even hear the "Oliver needs you" line, but it's just another piece of WTFery in the 'story' that is Laurel Lance.

Well he could use a mole in the DA's office.

 

I'm willing to keep Laurel around as long as it's made clear that 1) she's an adolescent love of Oliver and it's blue dead and 2) Sara IS the Black Canary.  Laurel can find something else that goes with a black leather jacket.

 

 

Yes to all that, but...why didn't she jab Slade with the cure at the first possible opportunity???

She would have only one chance because if she failed, he would take the syringe from her and possibly kill her. It had to work first try.

Edited May 15, 2014 by statsgirl

[KirkB]

I kind of hope Laurel does become DA (or at least ADA) because, to borrow a line, she may not be the DA Starling needs but she is the DA it deserves. Plus, it might keep her away from the Canary role a little longer.

[quarks]

She would have only one chance because if she failed, he would take the syringe from her and possibly kill her. It had to work first try.

 

 

I figured she was waiting a) for Slade to be distracted, b) for a signal from Oliver. He wasn't just confronting Slade; he was waiting for Sara and everyone else to flank Slade from behind. And yeah, she only had the one try - and she needed to make sure that she made that try with Oliver or someone around to take advantage of it. Even de-Mirakurued Slade was still packing quite a punch. 

[KirkB]

If nothing else, she wouldn't want to run the risk of jabbing Slade when she was alone with him. She couldn't be sure what it would do to him, and even if it worked she'd still have to deal with whoever else was around at the time. She needed to wait for Oliver, or Diggle, or Sara, or even Nyssa to be there to handle Slade and/or any of the Strokes.She sure as hell couldn't count on Laurel.

[quarks]

Ok, so I just rewatched the "I love you" fake-out scene, and I now have a new take on it:

 

Oliver brought Felicity to the mansion not one hundred percent sure that he could go through with offering Felicity up as bait.  So, he tells her to stay at the mansion, where she can be safe, and starts stalking off. Felicity protests; Oliver does his usual, "FELICITY!" yell because this is not Oliver Queen without yelling at her. She protests again.

 

And at that point, Oliver sighs, and decides to go through with it. Knowing that Slade is listening in, he tells Felicity that Slade captured the wrong woman, and adds I love you. Then he pushes the syringe into her hand with the "Do you understand?" and she says, holding the syringe, yes. 

 

In other words, Oliver waited until Felicity told him in no uncertain terms that she wanted to be beside him, risking her life, before he risked her life by offering her up as bait.

 

(Disclaimer: this reading has been colored by shipper glasses. Poster cannot guarantee the accuracy of this or any other interpretation.)

[GirlWednesday]

I like it. Thinking about this more and rewatching the scene, My interpretation is now more along the lines of full disclosure. Felicity knew about the plan. It was her plan. But I think she underestimated how it would make her feel when she heard Oliver say the words. It felt too real. So on the beach, she's saying it like "yeah in that moment it felt almost real, silly me, so unthinkable". I'm shipping my shipper heart to the max here!

[Carrie Ann]

I'm not sure she was aware of his plan beforehand (F and O are both incredible actors in that case) (I expect this will be addressed at cons or in interviews shortly), but I do think he knew how she would respond to him trying to leave her at the mansion, and let the conversation flow from that. I like that he respects that about her and wanted it to be her choice. Slade probably would have grabbed her anyway, just for extra leverage, even if he didn't think she was Oliver's special lady, so I'm not sure he would have risked just leaving her there if she hadn't tried to come after him.

 

My current shipper-induced thought is that he was willing to risk that Felicity might make herself vulnerable (beyond the risking-her-life way) because that would have been OK too. He confesses his love, she responds accordingly, then yay they get to smooch. She says nothing, they get to go on as they have been.

[SleepDeprived]

I'm joining this party and I don't think I even need to wear my shipper glasses to see the absolute sincerity in Oliver's words, facial expressions, and body language at the mansion. I, now, think Felicity had a general knowledge of what the ruse to trick Slade would be (that she would need to be endangered to get close enough to stab Slade with the Miracure) but that she was surprised (and I think Oliver was, too) at how real everything felt. It's been established that Oliver is a terrible liar, and to a certain extent so is Felicity. They're both not so good at cover stories. The fact that they were able to sell that scene so well tells me how close to the truth it really might be. Additionally, Oliver could have absolutely stopped at "He took the wrong woman" and it still would have done the trick. But he went that extra mile to say "I love you" with that face he gets in one-on-ones with Felicity. I mean, it's not like Slade's tiny spy cameras are in HD to capture the minutiae of their expressions. The "Do you understand?" to me seemed like Oliver giving Felicity an out on whether or not she would willingly put herself in harm's way to cure Slade, which she accepts with a resolute "Yes". She's always been firm about the fact that she chose to join Oliver's crusade. And they are equals on this team that the decision is left to her.

 

I'm still trying to completely process the beach scene. But I've been looking at the gifs on Tumblr (and there are, oh, so many) and anyone who tells me that those were not legit heart-eyes that Oliver was sporting while gazing at Felicity would receive directions to the nearest LensCrafters location.

[KirkB]

My guess is Oliver didn't want to discuss the details beforehand because he didn't know where all Slade might have ears. He found the bug Slade left at the mansion but he had no way of knowing if that was the only one. So he took Felicity to the one place he knew for certain Slade was listening and let the story play out as it did because he knows Felicity well enough to guess how she would respond. He wanted it to sound natural or else Slade might suspect something. Slade is crazy, but not stupid. I doubt he felt good tricking Felicity that way, but it kind of depends on what he thinks her feelings toward him are. If he think she's just sees him as her boss or her friend it's not a big deal, he was just following her advice after all, but if he has any inkling that Felicity has feelings toward him and did that any way then it could come off as cold or manipulative.

[statsgirl]

I just noticed that Slade's suit is metal when Oliver wasted 3 injection arrows on him at the QC building before Slade jumped out the window.  Felicity would have to be very careful where she tried to stab him.

 

Nyssa is completely awesome. I love that she doesn't have time for the screw-ups (knocking out Laurel although to be fair Sara said she didn't want Laurel hurt; telling Oliver his dithering is why his city is burning, taking out Isabel because she's talking too much) but she goes up to Felicity and introduces herself. Felicity challenged Sara bringing the LoA to the secret lair; Felicity is worth Nyssa's time.

 

And Quentin's -- in the fight in the tunnel, he saved Nyssa by arrowing a soldier, and she acknowledged it with a nod, then so did he. They're okay now.

 

In other words, Oliver waited until Felicity told him in no uncertain terms that she wanted to be beside him, risking her life, before he risked her life by offering her up as bait.

 

That makes sense in terms of the blocking and of the pauses in their speech.  He really started to high-tail it out of there before she stopped him. She also asked "why are we here?" which I don't think she would have if she had known the plan. And wouldn't Oliver have given her the syringe earlier rather than risk being caught on camera  handing it to her?

 

Another thought -- if he left her at the mansion without the speech telling Slade to go after her as it looked like he intended to do, does that mean that he really just needed her to be safe after all so he could do his job, even before it turned into the Slade take-down?

 

I liked how EBR said "I want to be with you (pause) and the others being unsafe."  Just a touch of a reminder that she has feelings for Oliver (as if we didn't know) but she's a group player.

 

From an interview with Stephen Amell (my bolding)

 

 

Katie Cassidy said recently that Laurel believes she and Oliver are "soulmates." Does Oliver share those same feelings?

Oliver's always going to love Laurel. He's always going to love her, period. But things change. Oliver never wanted Laurel to know for a reason because knowledge equals danger. The people that find out his identity always find themselves in the crosshairs of trouble. I think that her knowing, even though it's revealing Oliver to be the guy she always hoped he would be, at the same time, it may make it more difficult for them to have a relationship in the future beyond friendship.

 

Since it has made it easier for him to have a relationship with Felicity, I'd say a little wearing of shipper glasses is justified.

 

I think it's funny that I found 3 clips of the Queen mansion scene (the fake-out) on youtube and none (yet) of the beach scene, and yet the latter I find much shippier.

Edited May 15, 2014 by statsgirl

[apinknightmare]

He wanted it to sound natural or else Slade might suspect something. Slade is crazy, but not stupid.

 

Well, he's kind of stupid. Oliver left Felicity standing in the foyer with a syringe in her hand in full view of the camera, haha.

[Morrigan2575]

I think it's funny that I found 3 clips of the Queen mansion scene (the fake-out) on youtube and none (yet) of the beach scene, and yet the latter I find much shippier.

 

Olicity Queen has all of them up

 

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=olicity+queen+2.23

[Carrie Ann]

That makes sense in terms of the blocking and of the pauses in their speech.  He really started to high-tail it out of there before she stopped him. She also asked "why are we here?" which I don't think she would have if she had known the plan. And wouldn't Oliver have given her the syringe earlier rather than risk being caught on camera  handing it to her?

Yeah, this is why I don't think they worked out the plan in advance. He had to hand her that syringe stealthily once in the mansion, so if they'd talked about it beforehand, I think he would have just done it then. On the way to the mansion, he may have said something vague to her like, "I'm letting him outthink me," so that she might have an idea of what he was doing, but I don't think she really knew until he put the syringe in her hand. Then I think she understood completely, but was still thrown from the moment.

[statsgirl]

Ugh, yes. Even for Felicity, who has her embarassing moments, telling Oliver she loves him when he was playing Slade would have been awful. Even on the island at the end, she was so much asking him to say he really meant it.

 

For the same reason, I'm really glad they didn't kiss, either at Queen mansion or on the island. To quote a reviewer I like:

 

While a clever way of defeating Slade, this was almost like a practice run for the writers to put those words into Oliver’s mouth and let Felicity hear them and see how we’d react.  By the end of the episode, we’re left with a lovely scene where Felicity does what she does, rambling on nervously, while Oliver does what he does, saying very little while (enjoying?) watching Felicity be Felicity.  One thing’s clear: if these two ever do kiss it won’t be wasted on a charade meant to fool a bad guy.

http://weminoredinfilm.com/2014/05/15/tv-review-arrow-unthinkable-s2ep23-i-love-you-too-oliver/

 

Thanks for that link, morrigan. Lots of good stuff there.

[calliope1975]

EBR Interview

http://tvline.com/2014/05/15/arrow-season-2-finale-emily-bett-rickards-felicity-oliver-i-love-you/

 

So, Oliver didn't clue her in which makes him a giant douche canoe. I'm willing to forgive him though because I think the feelings were genuine. I suppose we'll find out next year if he can ever heal enough to act on them. 

[ohjoy]

Ok, so I just rewatched the "I love you" fake-out scene, and I now have a new take on it:

 

Oliver brought Felicity to the mansion not one hundred percent sure that he could go through with offering Felicity up as bait.  So, he tells her to stay at the mansion, where she can be safe, and starts stalking off. Felicity protests; Oliver does his usual, "FELICITY!" yell because this is not Oliver Queen without yelling at her. She protests again.

 

And at that point, Oliver sighs, and decides to go through with it. Knowing that Slade is listening in, he tells Felicity that Slade captured the wrong woman, and adds I love you. Then he pushes the syringe into her hand with the "Do you understand?" and she says, holding the syringe, yes. 

 

In other words, Oliver waited until Felicity told him in no uncertain terms that she wanted to be beside him, risking her life, before he risked her life by offering her up as bait.

 

(Disclaimer: this reading has been colored by shipper glasses. Poster cannot guarantee the accuracy of this or any other interpretation.)

Shipper glasses or no, I am completely on board with this take. It's very close to what I imagined in my own head.

 

And it kind of shows just how little lying was done to get there. He was prepared to keep her out of the fight and out of harm's way; he allowed himself to risk her when she made it clear that she was more than willing to take the risk. She's one of only a few women that he would even allow to take that risk. And there's no reason to think that anything he said in the mansion was a lie. When I think about it, his action plays out less like "I'm saying I love you, but I'm showing you what I need you to do," and much more like, "I'm saying I love you, WHILE I'm showing you what I need you to do." As others said, Oliver is really not a good liar. He's much better at using the truth to his advantage.

[bluebonnet]

I figure the cast is probably heavily prepped on how to speak with the media, but still, EBR exhibits a lot of awareness about her fans.

 

“It was like your heart is sinking, because we knew it was all a set-up, but it was sort of like, ‘Oh my God, oh no…. Ohhh, the fans… Everyone’s going to cry.’”

 

http://tvline.com/2014/05/15/arrow-season-2-finale-emily-bett-rickards-felicity-oliver-i-love-you/

 

Either KC has little awareness or they are prepping her wrong or both, whatever it is, it would go a long way if they give a more firm answer about where Laurel is heading.  I know they are in the business of keeping people on the hook in order to watch their show so that they have the numbers for it to continue.  But at this point, I think the majority of the fandom - at least those who are interested in discussing the show on forums and follow interviews - wouldn't mind a little spoiler if it assured us that Laurel isn't going to be what they keep implying she's supposed to be.  I mean, it's people like us, those who stay involved with the show after it airs on forums or tumblr or twitter who are most likely to be recommending this show to others.  I figure most of you might be a bit like me in that you watch an above average amount of tv and you usually only recommend shows that compel you to interact after it's done airing.  I sure don't suggest shows to people that I immediately stop thinking about when it's done.  

[Zalyn]

I think the scene played out perfectly because EBR (and SA) gives such great reactions just from their stillness, but it would have been hilarious if she'd responded with "I know."  Just because.  XD

[slayer2]

So the title of the episode comes from Felicity telling Oliver to let Slade "out-think" him--which I guess also means that Oliver loving Felicity is supposed to be "unthinkable." But what is unthinkable to the viewers if Laurel becoming Black Canary.

Not loving Felicity but sacrificing the woman he loves as admitted by MG on twitter.

[Monty]

There are a lot of ziplines in Starling City.

[GirlWednesday]

I liked how felicity just waited for Oliver to zip line down. She totally could have gone with Diggle.

[KirkB]

Not only didn't she go with Diggle, or go by herself, Oliver just turned, scooped her up and carried her down. Like he knew it was expected.

[FireFoxy]

My God that episode! I am still reeling! 

 

- Sara lives! But she goes with the LoA?!? That made no sense.

- Nyssa! She is amazing. And killing Isabel in such a nonchalant manner was hilarious. 

- Deadshot and the Suicide Squad! MORE please!

- More Diggle. Always a great thing. Daddy Diggle is going to be adorable.

- I want more Amanda Waller development.

- Not here for Laurel getting the BC mantle so easily. The show did such a great job building up Sara as BC that Laurel really has to prove herself before they go there.

- I have a feeling Thea is going to be a baddie next season. Her scenes with Malcolm were great.

- Meh Roy. Obviously his S3 plotline will be his guilt over killing that cop when he finds out.

- I hope Det. Lance makes it. I love him so much!

- Felicity was a BOSS! She really was the highlight of the episode for me.

- Oliver embracing his destiny and finally becoming a hero. Loved that. Loved his final scene with Slade, who is obviously going to escape.

- Olicity was on point. From Felicity encouraging Oliver, to the fakeout which was incredibly acted, to the confrontation with Slade to the island. I love them and I want them to go there but not yet. They are so, so great together but I am afraid I will be Chlarked again and I can't deal with that disappointment twice.

[Sakura12]

Hasn't Cassidy been in the business for awhile to know how to answer interview questions with more finesse? She acts kind of entitled in interviews. I suppose it's because she did kind of get screwed with the her character sucking.  But Cassidy seems hellbent on making sure everyone knows she's the Black Canary and Oliver loves her. Caity got the Olicity question all the time and she says things like I know they are the fan favorite. I love them too, I love Emily, she's so great. I love working with her. She says those things while also answering why Oliver and Sara hooked up. She's very nice about it and doesn't alienate any fan group. 

Edited May 15, 2014 by Sakura12

[GirlWednesday]

Yeah Diggle and Felicity are the quiet unsung heros of the show. Rising up from being ordinary and making a difference and asking for nothing more than the privilege to fight the good fight.

[GirlWednesday]

http://weminoredinfilm.com/2014/05/15/tv-review-arrow-unthinkable-s2ep23-i-love-you-too-oliver/.

Is that blond chick supposed to be KC? Wow I didn't even recognize her!

Edited May 15, 2014 by GirlWednesday

[slayer2]

I think KC is a wonderful actor, if you need proof go watch Melrose Place (one of my favourite characters of all time) There's not a lot she can do with inconsistencies and bullshit, she's in the same position as Kristin Kreuk was, she has all my sympathy and none of my ire. Do I think she could make a good Black Canary? Of course, she's wonderful but they have to write for her. If they gave her material half as good as EBR at least she'd have a fighting chance. I feel horrible for actors in this situation especially nowadays with internet, forums etc, it's absolutely brutal. I hope for her sake they give her something more to do, she's an incredibly capable actress and she certainly deserves it IMO.

Edited May 15, 2014 by slayer2

[Sakura12]

That's a pic of Cassidy during her Ruby days, before she did whatever it was she did to her face.

 

A capable actor can turn shitty writing into gold. I've seen it done. Cassidy has not done that. She seems to choosing to make Laurel sound like an entitled brat instead of a caring person. That's got nothing to do with the writing, it the ways she says her lines, a change in tone can make a world of difference. 

Edited May 15, 2014 by Sakura12

[statsgirl]

 

I imagine KC is pissed about the fact that she was supposed to be the female lead opposite Stephen but then Emily came in and took over.

And then Caity came along and made the Black Canary role hers. But I still think that neither EBR nor CL would have made such a splash if Laurel had been working as a character.

 

It may be part KC but there are a lot of KC/Laurel fans out there, and comic book fans, who keep telling her they can't wait till she comes into her roles as BC and Oliver's leading lady.  So partly she's believing them, and partly playing to them.

 

But I look at the scene in the sewer treatment plant, and Laurel is struggling in vain against the mirakuru soldier while Felicity is terrified but quietly waiting for her chance to make her move, and there's no competition,  Maybe KC thought that Laurel should be struggling but it makes her look ineffectual.

 

I thought that was a completely different person in that picture.

Edited May 15, 2014 by statsgirl

[GirlWednesday]

She looks better there in that pic and as a blond. I have only seen her in gossip girl. Don't remember her from supernatural, remember the character of ruby..

Sometimes it's better to watch a show without social media. Lots of swirl out here on the inter web.

Anyway that linked article also referenced more reviews of unthinkable. Generally good feedback from critics etc. I haven't read a bad review yet.

[slayer2]

That's a pic of Cassidy during her Ruby days, before she did whatever it was she did to her face.

A capable actor can turn shitty writing into gold. I've seen it done. Cassidy has not done that. She seems to choosing to make Laurel sound like an entitled brat instead of a caring person. That's got nothing to do with the writing, it the ways she says her lines, a change in tone can make a world of difference.

Well mileage varies because I don't see the problems you do with her skills. I can see why she'd be disliked as a character (mind you not with such mind-numbing rage) but I don't see it as down to her acting choices at all.

I also don't see that she's done anything awful to have face, she's gorgeous to me a little too thin nowadays but fucking gorgeous nontheless.

I think you may be right GirlWednesday I may have to try abstaining from the net next season.

ETA Just saw the Flash preview it looks good and Iris looks like a sweetheart, also love Jesse L Martin and the Arrow cameo. Hope they'll keep the crossover angle, that's my favourite bit about spinoffs.

Edited May 15, 2014 by slayer2

[Danny Franks]

I am massively surprised at your post...I figured full on rage over the whole Laurel becoming BC aspect

 

 

Nah. Like I've said before, I'm apathetic to Laurel as long as she's not forced into positions she doesn't fit into. In this episode, she was a complete non-entity, she did nothing, said little, and came across as a tertiary character linked to Sara. All of that is... whatever, I don't care. The stuff with the jacket and the "Oliver needs you"? Again, I just think it comes off as throwing the character/actress a bone out of pity.

 

Would I rather she upped sticks and left Starling City? Oh, of course. But what I can take from this episode is that Laurel now should believe that Felicity is more important to Oliver than she is, and that tickles me.

 

Ugh, yes. Even for Felicity, who has her embarassing moments, telling Oliver she loves him when he was playing Slade would have been awful. Even on the island at the end, she was so much asking him to say he really meant it.

For the same reason, I'm really glad they didn't kiss, either at Queen mansion or on the island.

 

 

Yes. I think that the way the two scenes played allowed Felicity to keep her dignity despite the apparent deception and potential cruelty of Oliver's charade. Oliver knows that Felicity at least has a big old crush on him, and it should have occurred to him that she feels more than that. And even without that, just coming out and telling someone you love them, then immediately following it up with the suggestion that they should allow themselves to be taken prisoner by a psychopath, in order to carry out a crazy, dangerous plan, is really, really not something to be suggested lightly.

 

She was stunned, too stunned to even enjoy the moment, and then she was brought back down to earth brutally. But we saw at the end of the episode that she's still thinking about it. Could it be true? Could she dare to hope? The answer is clearly yes, and I think she knows that now. So that's a big step in the right direction for them.

 

If the writers try to go back to Oliver/Laurel after all this, they should be fired, and laughed at as they pack up their shit and leave. It just does not work, even when viewed in isolation. When contrasted with Oliver/Felicity, it's a bad joke.

[Morrigan2575]

http://weminoredinfilm.com/2014/05/15/tv-review-arrow-unthinkable-s2ep23-i-love-you-too-oliver/.

Is that blond chick supposed to be KC? Wow I didn't even recognize her!

That's from when she played Ruby on Supernatural

[marcee]

On the bright side, when Sara gave Laurel her jacket, Det. Lance said, "Now don't go getting any ideas." I'm with you, Quentin. I'm with you.

Edited May 16, 2014 by marcee

[Sakura12]

I didn't even hear the "Oliver needs you" line, but it's just another piece of WTFery in the 'story' that is Laurel Lance.

 

Oliver needs Laurel like Tatiana Maslany needs acting lessons. 

[icandigit]

I know they didn't have time for it. But all they had to do was show her helping people in the city get to safety. She's  a do good er and public servant right. That's not burning building, fighting miriku soldiers. But, I know where an abandoned building is were you can hide. Or finding a stranded child on the street and keeping them with her until things calmed down. Everyday heroism type stuff. It would be a way to connect the story with the citizens that are actually suffering.

[GirlWednesday]

That's one thing I liked about Gwen in Merlin. She always was part of the story in a useful way even if she wasn't part of the main plot narrative... Or so I remember. I gave up on Merlin before it finished.

[KirkB]

No, you're right. Gwen was always a presence for most of Merlin's run, though oddly in the last season, when she became Queen, she actually got less screen time and less to do, but when she was on it was always memorable.

 

And that's my main thing with Laurel. I don't hate the character, I really don't, it's just that most of the time when she's on screen she's not really doing anything except maybe trying to cry and getting kidnapped. She doesn't need to be an action hero, and she certainly doesn't deserve to be Black Canary, but there is no reason she couldn't be in the DA's office and be a conduit between the city officials and Team Arrow.

Edited May 16, 2014 by KirkB

[TVHappy9463]

As usual the action sequences were awesome. 

The scenes with Oliver and Felicity were awesome. Laurel bothers me so much, unless Katie Cassidy can really pull it off I think it is a mistake making her Black Canary.  Maybe they can recast the role. Do you think the producers kick themselves for not casting Caity Lotz as Laurel from the beginning

John Barrowman will be a series regular next season. Maybe he can give Oliver a job, or maybe Oliver will have to ask Thea to hire him. 

 

 

[quarks]

Like, such a crappy, bottom-of-the-barrel jerk thing to do, especially because he HAS to know she has feelings for him.

 

 

. I doubt he felt good tricking Felicity that way, but it kind of depends on what he thinks her feelings toward him are. If he think she's just sees him as her boss or her friend it's not a big deal, he was just following her advice after all, but if he has any inkling that Felicity has feelings toward him and did that any way then it could come off as cold or manipulative.

 

 

 

I wanted to go back to this, though I think this is better addressed in the relationship thread, but I don't think Oliver does realize that Felicity has feelings for him. I think at most he thinks that she had a quick crush which is now over. 

Edited May 16, 2014 by quarks

[KayElektra]

I'm glad I wasn't the only one left with the thought of "Who is going to feed/clean/clean up after Slade in that deep, dark, rockhole of a prison?"

 

And I had no idea how much I wanted that Olicity scene to be real until my husband asked if we could please watch the rest of episode after I rewinded and watched it about six times.

[Alibelle]

I mentioned this one twitter, but after a little bit of reflection: honestly, I'd be disappointed if Olicity happened and then we missed the first 5 months of the relationship while we were waiting for the new season. So this is for the best! And looked at objectively, it was such a gorgeous testament to the trust and faith these two characters have in each other. They may not yet realize that they're deeply in love, but I am super deeply in love with the two of them.  (Also, Oliver can't lie -especially to Felicity- for crap; that confession was sincere as all get out.)

 

Ways to make you fall in love with a character 101, as demonstrated by Nyssa:

- immediately knock Laurel unconscious at first sight (last time she was even more efficient, and had Laurel poisoned before even arriving in town!)

- killer fashion sense

- realize who the most awesome person in the room is, and immediately introduce yourself ("heir to the demon." "MIT, class of 2009")

- make flirty eyes at Felicity, and just ignore everyone else in the room

- have a solid amount of warrior respect for Detective Lance

- have zero patience for villain monologues and kill it dead

- express disdain for Oliver's questionable decision making skills

- (also, I realize that she's gay, but I could seriously ship Nyssa/Deadshot. Anytime he irritated her, she'd just knock him unconscious, and he'd just find her all the more attractive for it)

 

When Sara handed Laurel her jacket and told her that Oliver needed her like she was just passing a baton, it just made me laugh so much before I became super grossed out and irritated that this storyline won't just die in a fire.  Because the baton is clearly Oliver's penis. (TM Captain Hammer.)  Other issues I had with that scene: ladies, your dad is still standing right there, are we not even going to pretend that Oliver/Arrow are not the same person? Also, there's no way that Sara's jacket is a perfect fit on Laurel.

 

Other thoughts:

- Literally no one other than her dad caring that Laurel was kidnapped again.  "I understand, but she's literally always kidnapped, and I've really got a lot of other things on my plate right now." - every other character

- When exactly did Oliver get Roy a mask? Until I hear differently, I'm just going to assume it's the birthday present he always meant to give Roy. That's why it was in a fancy box.  Also, Roy only likes three things, as far as Oliver knows: Thea, the color red, and vigilante justice.  So this was a very thoughtful present! 

- If I was Sara, I would never voluntarily get on a boat again in my life. I mean, I realize she's survived every boat disaster, but that's no reason to ask for it, you know?

- Swinging through the air together is obviously Olicity's thing. 

- Amanda Waller is a straight-up weirdo. She is weirdly indifferent to revenge. Like, she doesn't appear to carry any grudges at all. And her argument against Diggle and Lyla was "think of the hundreds of thousands of people you're endangering by not letting me nuke 576,000 people!  Also, allow me to make an awkward and long-winded digression into the contents of your uterus!" So bizarre.

- WHY DOES EVERYONE SUDDENLY HAVE A SECRET BABY? I AM UNINTERESTED IN NURSERY ARROW. I mean, Deadshot, Oliver, and now Diggle? If there's ever a kidnapped baby, we'll know that Laurel is also secretly a parent.

- OLICITY. So many feelings. Love them.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Alibelle