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S02.E23: Unthinkable

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Opening this thread early because there's a brief shot of Nyssa in the preview looking amazingly hot, and I feel this should be noted. 

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So noted. Though is it possible for Nyssa to NOT look amazingly hot?

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The extended promo has Sara and Nyssa with Isabel. So many badass women in one room. I'm more excited to see that fight scene than the inevitable Salde/Oliver showdown. Can't wait!

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Thought I'd put the official description of the episode over here. 

The CW’s Official Description: OLIVER MUST DECIDE ONCE AND FOR ALL IF HE’S A KILLER OR A HERO — Slade (Manu Bennett) moves forward with his plan to kill one more person in Oliver’s (Stephen Amell) life. While Oliver has fought all year to be more than the killer he once was, when Slade kidnaps someone close to Oliver’s heart, Oliver is pushed to the edge and realizes sometimes it takes doing the unthinkable to stop the monster. Meanwhile, Diggle (David Ramsey) takes on Amanda Waller (guest star Cynthia Addai-Robinson) with a little help from some friends, and Thea (Willa Holland) turns to Roy (Colton Haynes) in her time of need. John Behring directed the episode with story by Greg Berlanti and teleplay by Marc Guggenheim & Andrew Kreisberg (#223).

 

You know, that fact that the same show runners that have been lavishing praise on KC and the OTP of GA and BC are the ones that wrote the final episode has me more than just a little concerned. 

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You know, they say all this stuff about KC and GA/BC and whatever, but what they've actually DONE is give Felicity and Felicity/Oliver every single one of the actual romance beats, Sara gets the super cool action stuff, and Diggle gets to generally be awesome. Even Thea gets interesting angst, and was the only character put in line for further stuff with Merlyn, which was obviously going to be fun and exciting.  KC and Laurel get none of that.  Literally, all she gets is the EP's being super nice to her in interviews.  EBR generally even gets all of the official promo push stuff now from the network. So I'm not particularly worried about Laurel anymore. Is she still a drag on the show? Would I still prefer that she decide to move to Central City to be with her mom or take a midnight train to Bludhaven? Yes, of course.  But I really honestly don't think she will be taking either Felicity or Sara's place for anything.

 

Though now that I phrased it that way, it would truly be...UNTHINKABLE. Dun dun dun!  (sorry)

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Really, Thea is just going to join up with a mass murderer? They honestly expect us to believe that she'd do that?

 

Oliver's kind of an idiot. Slade's a badass with great skills for killing, and he's in ARGUS prison? Does Oliver really think Waller's not going to let him come out and play with The Suicide Squad? We better see that next season, because I want to see Slade and Deadshot interact.

 

Speaking of Deadshot, I love the character. I just wish they'd explain why he's doing what Diggle says, come on that goes in with why he's dedicated his life to being a great shot.

 

League of Assassins and Team Arrow vs Slade's army was awesome.

Edited by Jediknight

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I'm glad Sara's alive. But that's it, I'm done. I'm not sticking around to see Laurel become Black Canary. Sara just handing over her Canary costume so Laurel can just take over and telling her Oliver needs her. Also with Quentin maybe dying. Nope, not enough to make me come back next season.

I might watch the episode where Sara comes back because we all know that will happen. But other than that, this show is off my DVR. 

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There was lots of good stuff in this episode, I thought. Pretty much everything except the Laurel anvils.

 

Nyssa was awesome. She and Sara need their own show, or at least to be recurring on Arrow.

 

The solution to the Slade problem actually was kind of clever.  Felicity told Oliver to  out-think Slade, and he did.  I think Oliver's "Slade took the wrong woman, I love you." was kind of nasty to Olicity shippers but the end scene on the island makes me think that Olicity may be the end game after all, and it's way too soon for it anyway. I loved that Felicity was the one to get the cure into Slade after all, and then Oliver took him down while Diggle took care of ARGUS. Way to handle the teamwork, guys!

 

I agree though, the ARGUS prison is not going to hold Slade but that's just potential for the future too.

 

I understand why Thea went with Malcolm. Everyone else in her life has been lying to her -- Moira, Oliver, Roy -- so why not go with the one guy who is telling her the truth?

 

ETA:

Sakura, Sara didn't hand over her Canary costume to Laurel, she handed over the black leather jacket she wears with civvies.  It's like Oliver telling Felicity she's the woman he loves, it teases the people who want it, and doesn't take a stand one way or the other.

Edited by statsgirl

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So good!!! Glad I figured out for myself that Oliver was following Felicity's advice to "let [slade] outsmart you". For a minute, I was thinking the show had really jumped ahead of itself on Oliver/Felicity. She broke my heart at the end with "you really sold it".

 

Detective Lance better be alive in the ICU come fall.

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Really, Thea is just going to join up with a mass murderer?

 

 

Well everyone has been lying to her and daddy is the one person who hasn't lied and her big thing this season is "don't lie to me."  So it makes sense and better then that it is interesting,

 

I really loved the Oliver/Felicity stuff and was kinda heart broken at the swichero.  Still think Felicity is the one he loves.

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That looked like the leather jacket she wears over her corset. It would make no sense for to just to give Laurel her regular jacket. That was her Canary jacket. So Laurel will become BC next season. That's why I'm done. 

 

Sara and Nyssa will probably appear next season for an ep or 2, but as assassins. So Sara got her hero props but decided nope, she's a killer. When she hasn't killed anyone since the Dollmaker.

Edited by Sakura12

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I want a Sara/Nyssa show so badly now. I would watch the hell out of that.

 

I know Oliver and his crew had the cure, but if a handful of people could stop Slade's army what was Waller so worried about?

 

Slade and Oliver's last fight was cool, though it's a little convenient that Slade was the only Mirakuru soldier dosed with the cure who didn't fall unconscious. Obviously it would have made for a very unsatisfying finale if Slade just passed out.

 

I think I'm going to be pretty seriously bruised from all the falling anvils when Sara gave Laurel her jacket. That couldn't have made the implication (or at least the fact they were leaving open the possibility) any more obvious unless Sara had flat out said "Be the Canary."

 

Have I mentioned I want a Sara/Nyssa show? I know what to call it too. Heir.

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I really liked it! I'm so happy no one died! I mean if Laurel had died I would have been fine but man, I'm glad Felicity and Sarah lived! I think that they set up stuff for a fun season next year and I'm really just excited. Plus The Flash preview looked so cool. 

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I'm going to think it over but yeah, probably I'll be back.

 

 

it's a little convenient that Slade was the only Mirakuru soldier dosed with the cure who didn't fall unconscious.

 

He had had the mirakuru for the longest. The others had just got it a few months ago.

 

 

I know Oliver and his crew had the cure, but if a handful of people could stop Slade's army what was Waller so worried about?

She didn't know that they could.  No one  had tried it before.  Besides, she likes to blow things up. A lot.

 

I wonder what happened to the Suicide Squad after she surrendered.

 

 

I really loved the Oliver/Felicity stuff and was kinda heart broken at the swichero.  Still think Felicity is the one he loves.

I was pretty pissed off when I found out it was just a fake-out, especially since they can say that he really loves Laurel after all and was just saying that so Slade wouldn't kill her.

 

But in the end scene on the island, I think Amell played it that it was true, Oliver does have those feelings for Felicity but he's still very far from being able to go there.  There was a comfort in being able to say it under the guise of it being a fake-out.

 

On the other hand, I could be as delusional as the Laurel/Oliver shippers.

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1. Nyssa is hot. Really really hot. We are not emphasizing this enough on this thread. She is hot.

 

2. I bought Thea going off with Malcolm. Yes, he's a crazy mass murderer who just tried to kill her. But she's lost her job and apparently her trust fund; her mother was brutally murdered; half the city is on fire (depending upon the camera angle; some of the CGI flames were a bit off there, show); and now she's found out that her brother AND her boyfriend were both lying to her. She's only slightly more mentally stable than Slade.

 

3. The more I think about that island prison, the more irritated I get. How long was it there? Is anyone staffing it, or are they just going to let Slade starve to death and deal with plumbing issues on his own?  Was it around at the beginning of the season, and if so, why on earth did ARGUS just let Diggle and Felicity hop on the island to chase down Oliver between land mines? What is this?

 

(I realize the actual answer is "production budget" and "the show had enough problems finding something to stand in for a remote island location as it was," but still.

 

4.  Gotta love Amanda Waller for using the moment when she was threatening to blow up a city to congratulate Diggle and Lyla on their forthcoming pregnancy.

 

5. Is anyone else shipping Nyssa and Felicity right now?

 

6. Because Nyssa is hot. We need to mention this more.

 

7. The Flash trailer was hilarious.

 

8. Quentin is alive and I am not interested in hearing other theories or why I am wrong on this point because Quentin is alive. I'm glad we've cleared this up.

 

9. I loved Nyssa's approach to ending conversations. On a related note, Isabel, you might have been more successful as a CEO if you hadn't run around with a mask killing people. When, that is, you weren't diluting the stock. Great scene.  Loved how unapologetic Nyssa was and how Oliver was like, ok, not dealing with this now.

 

10. Did I mention yet that Nyssa is hot?

 

11. I was not thrilled with the passing of the jacket bit. Sigh.

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I wish I could believe that the jacket passing is just Laurel propping and not foreshadowing next season.  Laurel may know the secret now but even Thea is better positioned to become a superhero now that she's going off with Merlyn.

 

Seriously, I'd watch Nyssa in scenes with anyone, especially Sara and Felicity, before I'd want to watch Laurel donning the black leather jacket.

Edited by statsgirl
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Wow, talk about a finale that leaves me contradicting emotions.  I was super pepped up throughout most of it, like on the edge of my seat.  I didn't even know that I shipped Oliver and Felicity until  the stupid fake out but I accidentally let out a bit 'yippee!'.  I'm not the yippee type so that's how much it excited me.  The fight scenes excited me, the teamwork had me grinning like a fool, Thea and Malcolm made me pepped for next season.  

 

Then it was like I came down from the best high ever because of "Oliver needs you".  Uh, wut?  "Oh, here's my jacket."  Um, wtf?  These are fake-outs, right? I mean, they have to be.  Because obviously Oliver doesn't need Laurel.  She was completely unnecessary to his team (unless getting kidnapped AGAIN!) is meant to represent something special?  And they can toss in Laurel getting a good punch on a Mirakuru soldier right there at the end, but that still doesn't erase them presenting her as completely fucking useless the rest of the episode.  The passing of the jacket pissed me off more than I thought it would.  I hope it's a fake out, but the EP's had an interview recently saying that we would know what was happening with Laurel 43 minutes into the episode.  I.AM.NOT.IMPRESSED, CW!  

 

I didn't think I was actually serious about writing off the show if they pushed forward with a Laurel plan that didn't include her being a lawyer or something, but I'm sure of it now.  At least I still have The Flash to look forward to in order to feed my glee for comic book shows.  

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I did not know I was an Olicity shipper until the fakeout confession and the cheering that came out of my mouth. So I'm a bit confused about who knows what in the Lance family. I know Laurel and Det. Lance know Sarah is the Canary but do they know each other knows? God, that is a confusing sentence! If Thea goes off with Merlyn, that means more Barrowman so that is never a bad thing! I'm half annoyed and amused at the Hong Kong/Argus ending. Basically, Ollie was on an island, a boat, and mainland China for those five years? Next season we'll find out he founded a village or went fishing. Anything to demonstrate how not stranded he was.

Edited by Grammaeryn

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Even Nyssa a killer for most of her life was more respectful to everyone than Laurel. She introduced herself to Felicity right away, maybe Sara was told her some stuff about her. ;), she gave Quentin props when he saved her life and she helped save the city Oliver's way (well, mostly Oliver's way. Only Isabel didn't get the special treatment)

 

Why exactly are we supposed to like Laurel? 

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Well everyone has been lying to her and daddy is the one person who hasn't lied and her big thing this season is "don't lie to me."  So it makes sense and better then that it is interesting,

 

I really loved the Oliver/Felicity stuff and was kinda heart broken at the swichero.  Still think Felicity is the one he loves.

 

Ruse or not, that was about a hundred-fold more romantic than Laurel/Oliver actually having sex last season.  I just... don't know how Laurel/Oliver can ever match-up when they can't to Olicity apparently only (maybe...or not) faking it for the cameras.  Stephen's and Emily's chemistry is absolutely ridiculous.

 

Oliver/Felicity weren't only still the story getting all the romantic beats from the start of the season and right to the end, but they even remind me of that deeper level of the Ollie/Dinah romance in the comics and what makes that pairing in the comics appealing to me.  The idea of them being this heroic team taking out all the bad guys as well as being in love with each other, but not always knowing how to deal with it and balance it with what they do.

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So Sara was part of Laurel's journey to becoming the Black Canary for a couple hours. Wow, great planned in advance storyline Arrow writers. 

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I was just thinking, you know what might have worked better? Have Sara show up as a costumed vigilante by all means, just not the Canary. Make up a new identity for her, or co-opt someone else's, whatever. That way, when Laurel becomes the Canary (as it seems pretty obvious they're doing) she would not be compared to the far superior Sara in the same way. Oh sure, people who hate Laurel would complain about her being a vigilante, or even being on the show at all, but at least the complaints wouldn't be "Sara did it better!"

 

Thea going with Malcolm doesn't bother me. Roy, Oliver and her mother all lied to her, repeatedly. That's a lot to deal with. Malcolm may be a bit of a psycho but he is a loving father. He'll support her any way he can and I don't think he'd lie to her. If she comes back with a new identity, why not Arsenal? She was already Speedy and I'm not sure what the show runners are planning to do with Roy.

 

The Oliver/Felicity fake out took me by surprise, though it shouldn't have. The way they were interacting on the island, I'm not sure there wasn't a lot of truth in what Oliver was saying, he's just not in a place to realize it yet. Neither is the show. But they're not dismissing the idea, even if they seem determined to go another round with Oliver and Laurel. Uggh. At least I have the Sara/Nyssa show going in my head.

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So the title of the episode comes from Felicity telling Oliver to let Slade "out-think" him--which I guess also means that Oliver loving Felicity is supposed to be "unthinkable." But what is unthinkable to the viewers if Laurel becoming Black Canary.

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I refuse to believe that that's the end of Sara and Laurel is taking on the Canary mantle. They have too good a character/actor in Sara/Caity, and even Thea gets sent off to get some superhero training. It's ridiculous that Laurel is going to be the Black Canary just like that. No, Sara, it doesn't fit her at all, and I hate every second that the show tries to push it on me.

 fingers in ears, la, la, la,

 

I'm going to concentrate on the fact that whether there was any truth to what Oliver told Felicity in the mansion, he trusted her and was willing to send her on a mission that could possible kill her.  She's really a part of the team now, not a fragile butterfly that has to be protected.

 

And that both Diggle and Lyla survived, and are going to have their baby, and someone actually gets a quasi-normal life in this messed-up shoe.

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I love that a few of you just realized you shipped Oliver/Felicity in that scene--that makes me really happy, and I think it's a sign of how naturally the show has developed that relationship. I loved that scene, even though I realized in the ensuing commercial break what was really going on. That brought me back down to Earth a bit, but I actually prefer it this way, because it's too soon. Oliver just broke up with Sara, his Mom just died, he's too focused on Slade. I wouldn't fully buy that he had the emotional capacity to also realize he was in love with Felicity in that time.

 

My only question is how much did Felicity know and when did she know it? She was the one who suggested that Oliver let Slade out-think him, and then they take a ride out to the Queen mansion. It seems risky to say anything to her about it anywhere, and I don't think he did, which does make me feel a little sad for her. So she didn't figure it out until he pressed the cure into her hand, right? He was taking a risk that she wouldn't fall for it and return his sentiments, which would be pretty unfair to her.

 

Otherwise, I thought this was an excellent episode, and a fitting capper to a pretty great season of TV. I'm just thrilled that everyone lived. Yes, including Quentin because I won't tolerate any other ideas.

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I love Nyssa.  Katrina Law is just so damn gorgeous.  That is all!

 

OK, that's not all.  What did I like: Malcolm/Thea, anything involving Nyssa (even the brief Nyssa/Felicity exchange was awesome), the badass fighting, Quentin being the man, Felicity's part in taking down Slade, Diggle/Deadshot, and the brief moment of Original Team Arrow Trio.

 

What I didn't: the casual way Quentin and Laurel acted over Sara going back to being an assassin, Quentin being in danger at the end, the way the shot and wrote Ollie/Felicity's "out-thinking Slade" plan (still not sure how much was Felicity was in the know.  Hopefully all of it, or Ollie is kind of a dick), and, well, pretty much all of Laurel's stuff.  Especially Sara basically passing the Canary mantle to her, in the form of her jacket.  That's totally what they did, and I call bullshit.  Laurel will never be the Canary in my mind.

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I can't remember Heir To The Demon well enough .... does Quentin know that the LoA are actually assassins?

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I believe Sara said something was "unthinkable" when she was talking to Laurel. Honestly, I pretty much tune out whenever Laurel is on screen so I have no idea what she said but I remember her using the word and I was like, oh hey episode title!

I must do the same. LOL

Even though there wasn't much Malcom Merlyn this season, I'm glad to have regular cameo-ish scenes with John Barrowman. He's like the raisins in the oatmeal or the chocolate chips in the cookie.

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That "I love you" took me completely by surprise -- I was surprised I was so delighted, even though I really think it's too soon. But when Oliver walked away I thought, "He just told her to stay put while he went to battle with a man intent on destroying him, then declared his love for her, but didn't kiss her goodbye? On a CW show??"

I should have known.

The scene on the island at the end felt like more Olicity bait, but like Oliver said, they "both" sold it -- and hey, I guess I'm buyin'.

So this season's theme seemed to have been "trust issues," and based on where most of the characters where left off I'd say next season the theme is "daddy issues." Yippee.

(CORRECTION: This season's theme was probably more accurately "to tell the truth," a game in which the only winner was Malcolm Merlyn.)

Edited by RandomMe
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Godsdammit. I am so angry right now.

 

That is nothing but Olicity baiting of the worst kind. I actually teared up because I 100% believed that Oliver was confessing his love for Felicity to Felicity.  I will not be moved from that not being true.  That was a superbly acted scene by SA and EBR.

 

Fuck you for putting Sara's coat on Laurel. Fuck you, fuck you, fuck you, show.  Oliver needs Laurel like he needs a fucking hole in his head. 

 

Malcolm alive is good and poor Thea :(.  Roy has his mask say YAY for Red Arrow?

 

If Detective Lance is dead, .....I just can't. ....

 

I will say that I called Oliver being back on the island but not quite as I expected

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I can't remember Heir To The Demon well enough .... does Quentin know that the LoA are actually assassins?

He knows they are called the League of Assassins. So I would hope he knows what those words mean. 

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Just watch it! I liked it! I feel absolutely exhausted and emotionally drained. Not from watching the episode but from the agony of last 12 weeks, waiting with bated breath, what the show writers were doing with my team arrow and looney lance. All those interviews are so completely disconnected with what happened on screen. It's almost comical.

Alas all that worry was all for naught. LL is just as disposable as she was last year. Complete non-entity. I was so afraid that writers, in their infinite devotion to LL being a good thing and a leading lady, they would destroy what I loved about the show. But I guess these writers are more savvy than I gave them credit. Like good businessman, they didn't break what worked, felicity, Diggle, Sarah and Arrow. Unlike last year, where Diggle and Oliver fought while felicity stayed on the sidelines and supported her men; this year, all three (four if you include Sarah) played equally important roles that got the job done. One of the things I like in this show is that team arrow loses, messes up and hardly ever had the upper hand.

What I liked from this episode:

- Sarah and Nyssa - bringing Nyssa and going back to LOA was Sarah's unthinkable. sign me up for some Nyssa and Sarah adventures on the Nordic Pearl!

- Nyssa and Felicity intro. EBR could have chemistry with a tree. Katrina Law rocked all her scenes. That chick has presence. That beat totally worked for me and it was realistic. NYSSA introducing herself with all the arrogance a Ra's Ah Ghul probably should have. Felicity being Felicity reciprocating without guile. You could see by Nyssa's reaction that she found Felicity worthy of her time.

- Thea's unthinkable was going with Meryln. For the first time in two years I'm interested and engaged in her character. Sign me up for some Thea and Captain Jack adventures!

- Roy - his story arc worked for me. He spent all his time, running around, trying to find the vigilante, wanting to be like him, etc. He never stopped to think about what he would lose. That last beat I think he realized.

- Diggle and Lyla are cute. I missed me some Diggle. So I liked that they had their own adventure. That worked for me. I wish we had more scenes of Digg and Deadshot taking down some guards before they got to Waller. "Adventures of Digg & Deadshot" - Sign me up!

- Olicity beats - totally worked. I like how the house part wasn't preplanned. That created a heartbeat where Felicity realizes that she kinda hearts her Arrow but never thought it was possible. Unthinkable future where she gets her man. It also made her vulnerable because Oliver could hurt her really bad. Oliver should have warned her but it's a tv show so misunderstanding of love should happen. I didn't even mind it. Because it forces these two to evolve. On the island, that last beat when Felicity says it's unthinkable that Oliver could love her, he smiles that sweet accepting smile like he knows a secret and says that she was convincing too. Maybe not so unthinkable after All. And. that. look. Between the two of them was one of just acceptance. No more words needed. If season three is just about solving crimes and punch bad guys and no angst about who Oliver loves the most, I'm fine with that. Let's get back to character driven plots and missions of the week.

Which brings me to THE. WEAK. LINK. - ah man what are the writers thinking? "Oliver needs you" yeah, he needs you like he needs tapeworm. And man, even tapeworm has a cure these days!

Edited by GirlWednesday

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I'm sort of trying to justify to myself why I should maintain interest in this show.  Laurel was the breaking point for me as I stated upthread.  I'm not a Katie Cassidy fan at all, but her black hole of chemistry aside, her character has been done such a disservice by the writers.  The EPs have been trying to sell it for so long that I just want to hope they know what they are doing.  I'm wondering if Sara's parting words "Oliver needs you" coupled with the super fantastic Olicity scenes (I'm still shocked that I've become a 'shipper) is going to end up creating this terribly perfect storm of Laurel becoming a villain.  The only semi-consistent thing the writers have done with Laurel is to present her as a bitter, narcissistic, self-centered, nearly gold-digging woman.  I'm not really a fan of this type of portrayal of female characters but that's just the PC feminist in me.  Still, looking back, there have been a lot of scenes that illustrate this.  Laurel making moves to ensure she got to Ollie before Sara, Laurel being completely blind to Ollie's affairs, Laurel getting huffy because Tommy couldn't get them seated at a fine restaurant and then googoo eyeing Ollie when he got them seated quickly, Laurel saving a filing cabinet when the city was falling apart, Laurel feeling sorry for herself when saving a filing cabinet got her formerly rich bf killed, then feeling more sorry for herself when her sister returned from the dead, Laurel being rude to Team Arrow.  

 

What's going to happen when she goes to Oliver and discovers that he doesn't actually need her?  Her sister left of her own accord, her dad is gravely injured, her mom isn't on the scene unless Sara is around, and Oliver operates just fine - better than fine! - without Laurel in the picture.  She's pretty much going to start season 3 with no one to fawn all over her.  Shit, the only reason she was around Ollie this season is because she either had to be due to the trial or being kidnapped a gazillion times or because she wiggled her way into the lair and team only to need to be saved.  

 

Most of my dislike of Laurel (KC's acting notwithstanding) is because the writers can never seem to decide if she's good or bad.  EP's talk about her as a do-gooder (or good-doer, as KC has stated), but the only good she's done all season was the Blood thing.  I guess being nice to her sister was good, too, but I don't really give people gold stars for hugging someone who just saved some kid from a burning building and also helped save the city.  

 

The question is, would a villainous Laurel work?  Can KC sell it?  I didn't buy her as a drunk, nor did I understand how her alleged addiction was meant to be bad when no one but her suffered consequences (though losing her job for a few days doesn't seem like much of a consequence).  She wasn't believable as someone with a vendetta against The Arrow, though that wasn't mostly because I didn't realize that she was meant to really care about Tommy as something more than a meal ticket or someone to give her attention.  

 

I don't know, I'm still so conflicted about the ending.  

 

On a different note, holy crap I didn't even realize Isobel was killed.  Summer Glau deserved better than that!  

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On the island, that last beat when Felicity says it's unthinkable that Oliver could love her, he smiles that sweet accepting smile like he knows a secret and says that she was convincing too. Maybe not so unthinkable after All. And. that. look. Between the two of them was one of just acceptance. No more words needed.

I was iffy about the whole fake-out thing because I couldn't believe they actually went there but they did, and then I found it wasn't true.  It felt like a giant con.

 

But then this happened 

 

@mguggenheim was the "Unthinkable" for Oliver offering the woman he loved as bait to stop Slade. People need to know these things!!

@LynnMPuckett Yes.

And the scene made sense.

 

I had had enough of Slade in the flashbacks but even too much Slade is better than any Amanda Waller.

 

I feel very badly about what they did to Sara at the end. They created a good character, found the perfect actress for her, and now they're going to throw all that way for the waste that is Laurel?

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From what we've been shown on the show, it would have made more sense for Sara to pass her leather jacket onto Felicity. It wouldn't have actually made sense, but at least a relationship has been built there.

 

I just had a horrible thought. Since it'll be five months later when S3 starts, we are going to get already trained Laurel, aren't we? Ugh.

Edited by calliope1975

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Yeah I'm happy and relieved about a Sarah living on. Lots of comments about All characters just hand waving Sarah returning to LOA. I interpreted team arrow as acceptance of a comrade's decision. Even if they didn't agree with it. Sarah is sacrificing/choosing to join LOA in exchange for their help with baby deathstrokes ruining the city. It brought Nysaa back and put those two together. I'll happily hand wave the details away.

Not cool, LL being all SMILES as she says bye to her sister. I practically shouted at my tv "stop smiling dumbass, she's not going on a cruise or going to club med, she is rejoining a league of assassins, you might never see her again." Quentin knew her secret longer, knew not to be overly senti about the whole thing. But Laurel big sister laurel should have been trying to convince her to stay. Quentin should have told laurel to let Sarah go.

Writers keep dropping the ball in every scene where LL could do something that will connect with audiences. It's not rocket science. audience like Sarah. They want Sarah to stay. Laurel will connect with audience if Laurel is put in the same position as the audience.

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I just had a horrible thought. Since it'll be five months later when S3 starts, we are going to get already trained Laurel, aren't we? Ugh.

 

I don't know about that, but we'll probably get DA Laurel, which...LOL.

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From what we've been shown on the show, it would have made more sense for Sara to pass her leather jacket onto Felicity. It wouldn't have actually made sense, but at least a relationship has been built there.

Actually, it would have made sense because in clock king episode, Sarah and Felicity have a moment where Felicity is trying to be more like Sarah and wore a leather jacket. It would have made more sense actually. Sarah passing her jacket to Felicity and saying "take care of our boys until I can come back".

This brings me to really the only thing that bugs me about this show. Everything else I can hand wave away. You can totally remove looney lance and actually improve the storyline.

Sarah breaks up with Oliver, goes to Nyssa for help because she is afraid for her old and new family. Nysaa says yes but one condition. "You have to rejoin LOA". Slade ambushes the team/LOA and captures Felicity and Sarah. Diggle/Suicide Squad/Lyla battle ARGUS while NYSSA and Oliver grudgingly work together and rescue their girls. Death match ensues.

At the end, we are at the same place. But as Sarah is saying goodbye, Quentin collapses. Team arrow rushes to help him but LOA says if you choose your new family, there will be A Reckoning. Sarah steps off the boat and says "bring it". Final scenes, Felicity holding Quentin as Arrow/Digg/Sarah/LOA get ready for battle. Fade to black.

Fucking laurel and her damn destiny!

Edited by GirlWednesday
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Because obviously Oliver doesn't need Laurel.

 

 

 

Yeah, this. In fact I don't think there's been an episode yet that made that more obvious. Oliver obviously needed Sara and the LoA. He needed Felicity to stab Slade with the syringe. He needed Diggle and Lyla (and Deadshot, yay!) to stop Argus. He needed Argus to imprison Slade.  He even called in Roy for help.

 

But Laurel?

 

"Everyone! Laurel's been kidnapped!"

 

"That's nice."

 

She did call 911 though, so I guess that's something. 

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I'll be unraveling this episode probably for some time to come. 

 

Quick thoughts.

 

No, Oliver didn't tell Felicity his plan ahead of time but I don't think it was a complete fake out.  

 

Thea shooting Malcolm was awesome and her look of utter exasperation when he was proud of her for doing it was priceless.

 

No Quentin is not dead.  I won't even accept any other option.  If he's gone all the police and investigating will allllllll come from Laurel.  No. Can't.  I just Can't.

 

Poor Roy, so close to his happy ending. 

 

I adored the scene on the beach between Oliver and Felicity.  The light was so pretty.  I'll concentrate on the meaty stuff later but the "Let's go home" line melted me more than a little bit.

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I don't know about that, but we'll probably get DA Laurel, which...LOL.

That would sort of make sense.  The Starling City DA office blows.  Just really terrible lawyers all around.  They also die and get kidnapped a lot.  I don't think they've shown Laurel ever winning a case on her own and she definitely gets kidnapped a lot.  The only thing Laurel hasn't done is die.  Though she was knocked out in this episode which is close enough.  She's a good fit for continuing with the DA office, an awesome fit for DA if the intent is to kill her off.  

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I feel kind of...I don't know, dissatisfied, I guess.

 

I liked:

  1. The stunts and fight sequences, as usual, were excellent. Action is the one thing this show consistently does right.
  2. Thea going off with Merlyn. Yeah, it's a little far-fetched for old Thea, but I like the idea that she wants to become a new person and am subscribing to the notion that she's using him since, in her mind, what else does she have in Starling City? She has no home, no job, no money. Pretty much no more family.
  3. Loved Nyssa. She's a bad ass, end of.
  4. Slade being locked up (although I'm wary of A.R.G.U.S., so....)
  5. Surprise Diggle baby. Good for Digg, i want these people to have happiness in their lives, but I feel like this is just leading up to John being a 'mentor' for Oliver once he finds out he has a kid running around in the world. Not crazy about that.

 

I didn't like:

  1. The continued assertion that Laurel is a) a valuable individual to the show and b) important to Oliver on a personal level. It doesn't help when she spends an episode passed out and held hostage while other women on this show are busy kicking (literal) ass. What does Oliver need her for? He's been doing just fine as the Arrow without her (and if anything, she hinders him). They don't hang out, don't really seem to go out of their way to talk to each other outside of Arrow dealings or when she's been abducted. So what's the point of her?
  2. The complete negation of Sara's whole story arc this season. Just ten episodes ago she was INGESTING POISON so that she wouldn't have to go back to the LOA. What was the POINT of her 'heroic' turn of the past couple of eps if she was just going to skip off onto a boat to go be an assassin again, like she doesn't have a care in the damn world? Her sister's positively giddy to see her go, too. What an asshole. She's just excited she gets to keep that jacket, which is typical asshole behavior!
  3. Oliver and Felicity. Where do I even start? First of all, using Felicity as bait without her knowing? Not down with it, for many reasons. Not telling her about the plan beforehand and counting on her to know exactly what he was asking her to do? So shitty. Like, such a crappy, bottom-of-the-barrel jerk thing to do, especially because he HAS to know she has feelings for him. He had to know that she'd think it was real for a second or two, and that it might sting or embarrass her when she figured it out. Plus, it relies too heavily on the fact that she'll completely understand what he wants her to do without him outright telling her, and it basically gives her no option when it comes to participating in the plan. I know she would've done it anyway (that's part of the reason why I like her as a character so much), but the whole thing just bothers me because it takes away her agency for no good reason. I'm willing to handwave part of it because it seems like Oliver felt comfortable saying those things to her because he actually meant what he said (the end scene on the island seems to support that, or at least it can be interpreted that way), and maybe he was afraid to tell her because he wasn't sure who was listening/what devices of theirs had been bugged. But yeah. Didn't care for Felicity not being clued into the plan. I do appreciate the fact that he trusted her to carry out literally the most important mission ever, and true-to-form, she did it. It just could've been handled better IMO.
  4. The EPs. They need to be reallllly careful about the ship baiting and the interview teasing (personally, I'm on the ANYONE BUT LAUREL ship). I was super hyped-up for this ep based on their interviews, and it fell flat in every single way. I guess that's my own fault since I should probably know by now not to read them.

 

As for the rest? I know this is horrible to say, but I don't think the Lance thing was that big of a cliffhanger? I'm not feeling a sense of urgency to find out what happened to him (I'm sure he'll live). I'm really not looking forward to S3 with more Laurel/potential Canary, and I'm not sure how I feel about Waller showing up in Hong Kong, although it will be nice to have some flashbacks that aren't island-related. I'm mostly interested in Team Arrow's goings-on, and they could make it interesting with them putting the pieces back together. I don't want Laurel involved in any of it. I'm guessing Digg will go work for A.R.G.U.S., and hopefully Felicity will find a nice job and a boyfriend who isn't comatose. I'll check out the first ep next season. Despite its ups and downs, I really love this show, but I'm feeling kind of 'meh' about it right now. And that upsets me, because it's one of three shows that I watch and the only one I ever made sure I was home to watch live.

 

We'll see what the summer brings.

Edited by apinknightmare
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I didn't even hear the "Oliver needs you" line, but it's just another piece of WTFery in the 'story' that is Laurel Lance.  Everything to do with her is a textbook example of 'tell, don't show'.  Not only has Oliver shown no sign of 'needing' her, he's shown on more than one occasion that he really doesn't give a crap about her.

 

If I have to fanwank Sara leaving, it's because she's convinced herself that killing is bad and now she's going to try and persuade the LoA to stop killing.  It's dumb as all hell, but it is about the only thing I can come up with at short notice (which is how this season seems to have been plotted a lot of the time).  Why a boat though?  I would have thought Sara was boatphobic by now.  Is there a reason the LoA doesn't fly, quite apart from the fact that Nepal/Himalayas is about as far from the ocean as you can get...

 

Half the internet seems to have exploded from the Olicity thing.  In that I think the EPs are right in that it pissed off some and pleased some.

 

I just know that I love Felicity so.damn.much and will not watch her sacrificed on the altar of possibly the worst character I've seen on television.

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I'm going to think it over but yeah, probably I'll be back.

 

This is where I'm at, as well. I, more often than not, watch the show live but next season I'm debating if I'll still keep this as appointment tv. I just really do not trust the EPs/writers about the Laurel of it all.

 

But in the end scene on the island, I think Amell played it that it was true, Oliver does have those feelings for Felicity but he's still very far from being able to go there.  There was a comfort in being able to say it under the guise of it being a fake-out.

 

I have to admit that I'm still quite angry about the fake-out. But the way that SA played it both at the mansion and especially at the beach, I absolutely believe that Oliver has those kind of feelings for Felicity. And I've seen the development of their partnership. I know they truly care about each other. Everything they've both been through plus the acting and chemistry between EBR and SA makes me want to believe that Oliver and Felicity would likely be endgame. But, then, the writers sneak in that "Oliver needs you" line and I'm right back to wishing boils and sores on the writers for clinging to something that just does not work! Stop with the sister-swapping! It wasn't cool in the beginning and it will never be fucking cool!

 

 

1. Nyssa is hot. Really really hot. We are not emphasizing this enough on this thread. She is hot.

 

Bolded for emphasis and because it needed to be repeated.

 

 

You could see by Nyssa's reaction that she found Felicity worthy of her time.

 

Yep. Meanwhile, Nyssa was so not up to even dealing with Laurel other than tranquing her straight away. But the Felicity and Nyssa meet was a great scene. I giggled because, apparently, Sara and Nyssa share the same taste in women. Would not be opposed to a threesome. Hee.

 

 

The complete negation of Sara's whole story arc this season. Just ten episodes ago she was INGESTING POISON so that she wouldn't have to go back to the LOA. What was the POINT of her 'heroic' turn of the past couple of eps if she was just going to skip off onto a boat to go be an assassin again, like she doesn't have a care in the damn world? Her sister's positively giddy to see her go, too. What an asshole. She's just excited she gets to keep that jacket, which is typical asshole behavior!

 

This. I'm happy Sara is alive but man, the show did her dirty if we're really meant to believe that she happily went back to the assassin lifestyle.

 

Quentin's alive, no one can tell me otherwise. And I can't wait for Thea's hero/anti-hero journey!

 

Oh, btw, if Nyssa's boat is the Nordic Pearl, does that mean that the LoA base (or Nyssa's group, at least) are located in Scandinavia? I always thought Ra's al Ghul was based in Tibet...

Edited by SleepDeprived
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Why a boat though?  I would have thought Sara was boatphobic by now.

 

Oh my god yes!  I didn't even think about this. 

 

 

Is there a reason the LoA doesn't fly

 

Well Nyssa did leave quite the impression on airport security last time she was in town.  On the no fly list perhaps?

 

I still can't get over how badly done the end scene with Sara was handled.  She should have been resigned and committed not pleased and bouncy.  I would have been ok if she was optimistic and not gloomy but she abhorred the killing.  She came to realize sometimes it's very expedient and that her first impulse might be a bit too kill happy but even if she wasn't as far along the no kill path as Oliver (who incidentally in just the last episode was happy to drop a tunnel on the Strokes calling them not men- so their not that far apart) she wasn't a killer anymore.  She didn't want to be.  I try to console myself that she now will only take assignments that really need killing.

 

Still, her family should have been waaaaay more torn about her leaving.  They should have been putting on their best faces and we should have seen the cracks.  Even the "Oliver needs you" line could have worked if the writers tried harder.  Sara could have implied Oliver without hammering us over the head and said something about the city needing it's heroes and it heroes needing support too.  OR something about Sara hating to leave Oliver when he was left with such a mess of a city and he needs all the help he can get.  Something that didn't come clear out of the blue.   

 

I hate the Quentin cliff hanger.  The only good thing I can say about it is that we know he isn't dead because Laurel didn't get a tearful deathbed goodbye.  I just don't understand the reason for it.  Yes, it makes me worry about a character but the show is doing the normal five month time jump so Quentin would be long recovered by then so the scene is pointless...unless PB has a possible better offer out there and they needed to write in a possible out.  Nope, sticking my fingers in my ears and going la, la, la. 

 

I can't imagine enduring KC acting with out PB to make it better. 

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Mmm, Nyssa. That woman carries herself well. And I particularly enjoyed her eyefucking Felicity, as well as Felicity's wonderfully unaffected, "Felicity Smoak, MIT class of '09". Can we please have plenty more of her in season 3, or perhaps just in that spinoff I suggested? She's badass. But I kind of feel like they were rather emotionally inconsistent with what being in the League of Assassins actually means. Last time around, Sara was distraught over the things she'd done, said she couldn't go on with the killing, and Nyssa was going to murder her parents in vengeance. This time? Smiles and "I wanna do this", as though she's going off for a gap year of fun with her girlfriend.

 

Her darting of Laurel in the opening scenes was just about the funniest meta-comment this show has ever made. 'Here comes Laurel. She's useless. She's unconscious. Now we can get on with actually doing something.' Had me laughing out loud. Although, should we not worry that being injected with a powerful sedative might send Laurel spiralling down into drug addiction again? Oh wait, that storyline's done with now, isn't it?

 

To touch briefly on Laurel, I just feel sorry for Katie Cassidy, now. Because her role on the show has come to feel like it only exists out of pity. Like she's just tagging along with the cool kids, and they're tolerant because they feel bad for her. "Oliver needs you"? He really, really doesn't. And he especially doesn't need her as a wannabe vigilante.

 

The Thea storyline is fucking stupid and I'm not having it. I just flat out don't believe what they've written, and so I'm going to pay no more attention to it. They're employing the worst dumbfuckery comic book logic to fuel it, and I'm not buying.

 

I thought the island flashback stuff was far too on the nose. Sara 'dying' the exact same way she did the first time. Oliver literally standing over Slade with the cure in one hand and an arrow in the other. Too simplistic. But it was all foregone anyway, so watching it was more about idle curiosity than about needing to see what happened.

 

That's the bad, but there was plenty of good as well.

 

"Make him outthink you" had me laughing too, because my immediate response was, 'that's going to be really easy to do'. Poor, dopey Oliver. But it actually turned out to be a smart, ruthless, "unthinkable" plan that he came up with.

 

The "I love you" reveal was a pretty great moment, played so well by both SA and EBR. She's initially stunned and she's clearly never even contemplated that it could be the case, but then Oliver says "do you understand?" in that urgent, apologetic voice, and I really think she does. She gets why he's saying it, and what he hopes to achieve, and how it will help them beat Slade. Because she's a smarty pants (something I remember saying about her all the way back when she picked up on him telling her she was remarkable, and saying "thank you for remarking on it"), and she understands Oliver. And she's left reeling with hearing those words, but also with understanding what he's asked her to do.

 

I felt for her in that last scene, though, where she was clearly trying to push him into saying he did mean it. Because it feels like him saying it in the first place might have opened a door in Felicity's mind that says 'perhaps it is possible', and that might be a tough door for her to close. But, while Oliver clearly isn't ready to say any such thing at the moment, I feel that those two are now geared to be the endgame pairing. That scene wasn't just the actors playing things up, it was the writing, the directing the music, the whole shebang.

 

I'm glad Lyla survived and Diggle doesn't have to have more fuel for his angst. They make a nice couple, and it's nice to see Audrey Marie Anderson getting to be a tough, capable cookie after those years spent as an elite special forces guy's loyal wife in The Unit.

 

Leaving Slade with ARGUS? Not the smartest idea ever. They will surely find a reason to free him and try to use him before the end of season 3. But I'm glad he's still around, because he's too good a nemesis for Oliver to have been killed off after all that build. The reveal of where Slade was being kept actually was a great moment. How fitting that he's back on "Minefield Island" (thanks for that, Felicity), but he doesn't even know it.

 

And great final scene to set up the flashbacks for season 3. What's the betting that Oliver and Waller have slept together? Any takers? I'll give good odds.

 

This episode reminded me a bit of the Liars, Guns and Money episodes of Farscape, where they recruited every ne'erdowell alien they'd met across the previous two seasons to help them steal money to free Jothee, and then to help them rescue Crichton. It's fun to see an extended universe utilised like that.

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