S13.E10: Wayward Sisters

[Commando Cody]

Holy God this was awful. I hate to say it, but as far as back door pilots go, this was Bloodlines bad. 

I never saw Sex and the City, but wasn't reading parts of a diary the deal with that show? So this is supposed to be Monsters and the City?

The producers of this show must really love Kathryn Newton. I don't see any other reason why they would keep her around. Whenever Claire isn't whining and bitchy, it sounds like Dean's writer is writing her lines. As an actress, she is hard to watch. 

I love Jodi and Donna together. I thought the Jodi and Alex dynamic was strong and interesting. If they had just stuck with these three, I probably would have liked it. Claire dragged the entire episode down. Psychic Girl was a close second. I thought Claire and Dream Walker were having moments. I could tell from the start that the hooded figure was a woman. I just didn't figure on the doppelgänger.

 

People seem pretty excited to see this as a series. I don't know if it will happen, but if they don't lose about half the cast, it probably won't last for a full season.

[bozodegama]

45 minutes ago, ahrtee said:

The good news:  It wasn't as bad as I feared.  There were parts I actually enjoyed:  I liked Donna this time (usually she annoys me).  I liked Claire finally showing vulnerability.  I actually liked Kaia (I have a weakness for screwed up (and especially anxiety-ridden) characters.)  I thought the monsters at first were among the creepiest (and scariest) we've seen in many seasons, though the special effects were kind of cheesy (especially the end monster) and after a while, when there were so many half-seen monsters that were so easily killed, they stopped seeming like a major threat and became kind of...boring.

The bad news:  Massive lack of logic on all fronts, which made characters act OOC or at least stupidly (that's all of them, BTW, not just the Winchesters.)  So much hand-waving I might have lowered my house temp by 20 degrees.  Way too much overwrought music to highlight the Drama.

TBH, while I think I might enjoy a few episodes while the Sisters (preferably *aided* by the Winchesters) deal with whatever came through the rift, I don't think there's enough there for a full series as it stands.  I just don't see how it's going to work long term:  Jody and Donna keep their day jobs and the girls go to school, but take off whenever a rift monster surfaces?  (How many do you think got through?  Why would they all stay around Sioux Falls?  Why hasn't anyone else seen them yet, if the rift's been open for days?)  Maybe they'll rework later to broaden the scope, but that kind of defeats the declaration that they're going to have a home base in SD.  

I don't think Claire is strong enough to lead the series, even in an ensemble (IMO they're clearly aiming at having her be the narrative/focal point). I'm not thrilled with her acting ability (though apparently others disagree) and with all her new/ongoing outside projects, I'm not sure how long she'll commit to WS.  As for the others:  Patience seems to have only one expression (wide-eyed, with a side of freaked);  (and if she's 18, I'm 21...for about the 3rd time...)  I like Alex, but if they're aiming more at action, I don't see her taking a very large lead.  We'll have to see if "new" Kaia replaces the "old" one, now more powerful and less angsty/scared, not necessarily evil.  And I'm not sure if I want to see that.  I liked the old one.

And mostly, if the focus is supposed to be about women's empowerment, why does it all have to be about action?  Shouldn't knowledge/intelligence also be honored?   Shouldn't Patience be going to college?  Why is Alex a nurse and not in medical school?  (Since she has no problem doing alien autopsies, apparently she'll be doctor in everything but name, which seems a little...patronizing?  Or did I miss something?)  

My bottom line:  the characters made me willing to give them a chance.  The trite and overwrought story, massive plot holes, and the feeling of being set up for emotional blackmail made me gag.  I almost turned the TV off after the first five minutes, in between the music and Claire's Indiana Jones/Wonder Woman set up   (It reminded me a bit of Charlie's role-playing fantasy as the mercenary with the eyepatch and bandolero in Pac-Man Fever.) :)  

I'm kind of glad I stuck with it, but I'm still not convinced I'll watch a full series.  

Hey i really agree with you about everything but I’m not sure why you liked it.  The thing that makes supernatural work for me is the incorporation od humor into the story. You need great villains for that.  I’m not sure there’s anything remotely funny about gross monsters that don’t speak. Not exactly a Crowley if you know what i mean.  Plus they basically just stand up and ask to be shot.  Serious monster problem. 

[ahrtee]

3 minutes ago, bozodegama said:

Hey i really agree with you about everything but I’m not sure why you liked it.  The thing that makes supernatural work for me is the incorporation od humor into the story. You need great villains for that.  I’m not sure there’s anything remotely funny about gross monsters that don’t speak. Not exactly a Crowley if you know what i mean.  Plus they basically just stand up and ask to be shot.  Serious monster problem. 

Well, I didn't actually say I liked it: I said I didn't hate it, which is different :)  And I mentioned the parts I enjoyed.  

I'd much prefer some humor in the shows (and I did think this was way overwrought and angsty/not-in-a-good-way) but I have no problem with "monster" monsters that don't speak if they're actually scary (that's how the show/MoW started, after all--monsters weren't supposed to be funny.)  I do miss Crowley, but I haven't really considered him a monster in years; and Lucifer, while he has funny lines, has IMO stopped being funny years ago too.  

I miss the humor that grew naturally out of the situations and the way the characters reacted to it (and especially from *clever scripts*) not just throwaway lines or slapstick humor at the boys' expense (and especially *not* from OTT and stupid characterizations, like Dean's eating habits).  I don't think you need great villains for that, just better scripts.  

[bozodegama]

Supernatural was made by its villains.  You can’t like Supernatural without liking the villains and most of them are hysterical.  Yed, Meg, Gordon, Lilith, Alastair, Ruby, My favorite, Zachariah, Crowley, Dick Roman, Lucifer, Abadddon., Trickster, it goes on.  I can see Wayward being a Lord of the rings show but then you need a Sauron type evil, not just a monster who stands up and asks to be shot.  I mean Claire killed one of those monsters with literally a 3 inch knife, maybe.  Not exactly the demon killing knife of the Kurds or an angel blade.  I was expecting more.

[flyinghigh]

4 hours ago, Katy M said:

I'm sure I'm the only one, but I really liked this episode.  But, for two things.  And unfortunately they're pretty huge.  But, were' supposed to beleive that S&D were like 100 feet away from the rift for several days and couldn't find it?  and why did they stop when they saw it?  Go through it.  But, other than that, I loved it.  Mr. Werewolf.  Hee hee.  I really liked Claire this epi.  Too bad Kaya had to die. 

No. Add me to the list - and yes I have similar issues - for days Sam and Dean couldn't find the rift? What were they waiting for when they all reached there? For monster to appear? Were they so shell shell shocked that could't react? I had started to like Kaya too. Before seeing her in her evil avatar - I literally had tears in my eyes. She dies in her 'bad place' - the place which terrified her.

Now having set aside all that bothered me, I liked the whole female camaraderie that is being developed - long way to go, I think. The characters are still too raw, action still forced, and IMO, the relationship till in infancy kind of state - but I felt that underlying bond, the love and care that can be developed, the 'family' that they can become - and hope the bonds becomes as natural as Sam and Dean have. 

Another world - glad we have left the world of angels - they had become so boring, their story lines dragging. Do wish they would introduce Castiel in this world - but  make him do something substantial - be a character who makes a difference - and not there just because he seems to be fan favourite. He was an interesting character in season 4 and 5.

Of course what I really want is more Sam and Dean. Wayward daughters/ sisters whatever - I watch SPN for Sam and Dean. 

[ahrtee]

23 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I would have traded the Banes twins for Claire.

Apparently no guys allowed.  And Alicia is now made out of twigs.

I would have traded Krissy for Claire.  She's not angsty enough (but at least she can act.)  Or the girl from Scorpion and the Frog.  (She certainly has a buttload of issues, but I guess she's too old?)  How about the hunter in Daisy Dukes in season 8 (the one who hated Sam?)  How about Kate the werewolf?  She could be a great help in tracking.  (Sorry--got sidetracked by memories of Sgt. Angua in the Discworld series.)  Hey--how about Becky! (She has hunting experience...)

[SueB]

The Good:
- DONNA!  She was perfection.  The way she sweetly greeted those monsters.  And gave Patience her gun.  Donna was MVP IMO.
- Kaia. I like her and I don't want evil Kaia alive and good Kaia dead.
- Alex.  Liked her snark and matter-of-factness.
- Patience. Nice 'fish out of water.'
- Jody. I love me some Jodio.  "You guys save the world. We've got Sioux Falls."
- Claire. Learning she's not "all that" after getting Kaia killed.  
- The rift is back and the "Predator" dudes are on the loose.
- Flame-thrower.

The Bad:
- Too much Claire.  Not as annoying as it could be but too much Claire.
- Wanted more Sam and Dean.  The food bit was funny though.  
- Felt a little stilted in some areas.  Par for the course for a pilot, however.

The Ugly:
- Claire being the one to save Sam & Dean.
- Jody taking a backseat to Clair.
- The boys being taken down by evil kaia.
- CGI Monster

Overall: I liked it as a pilot but not much as a Supernatural episode.  OTOH, I'd definitely watch the spin-off.  I think the premise is well established.

[ae2]

I was so stoked when I saw Claire writing in a hunter's journal like John always kept.

I was so bitterly disappointed when I discovered it was actually a teenage girl's diary.

[Wynne88]

As best I can remember, every time anybody has gone through a rift, they appear in the other world with the rift right behind them.  After all, it is the equivalent of a door.  So how did Sam and Dean end up so far away from it that they couldn't find it after several days of looking?  Turn around, guys.

[Katy M]

48 minutes ago, Wynne88 said:

As best I can remember, every time anybody has gone through a rift, they appear in the other world with the rift right behind them.  After all, it is the equivalent of a door.  So how did Sam and Dean end up so far away from it that they couldn't find it after several days of looking?  Turn around, guys.

That was the one thing that really annoyed me about the episode.  Even though we would have lost the really awesome lizard scene, that could have been fixed by having them caught right away.  Or, being chased away and then caught and brought back to the sacrifice spot. 

[RulerofallIsurvey]

That was kind of a strange opening for an episode of Supernatural.  I wish they’d saved most of it for the proper pilot episode of WS.  I think the flashbacks should have included more of the ladies with Sam and Dean.

I really hope they don’t keep the Claire voice over for the actual WS spinoff.  Maybe they think since Outlander uses it’s Claire as a voice over all the time, it would work? But it’s not the same Claire, so: No.

First thought when Claire stabbed the BadPlaceBadGuy: “Blue goo.  That’s new.” 

Some stupid stuff:

• Sam not eating the lizard.  I know the ‘Sam is a picky eater’ is a well-used trope, but I think it was ridiculous in this instance.  They’d been there two days.  This was a survival situation.  Sam would have known that and eaten the lizard instead of turning up his nose at it.  Shoot, if that’s the first thing they’ve had to eat in two days, he probably would have thought it tasted great!
• Hey!  Let’s all run to the exit from the place where unknown creatures are trying to kill us and STOP.  I guess they just wanted to take in the really cool CGI. 
• Oh, and then when they hear something coming, instead of going through the door that’s right there, they do the really smart thing of turning around to fight - fight something they know nothing about or how to kill.  Yeah!
• Leaving Kaia’s body.  Come on – Sam’s huge.  He could have carried her no problem.  He’s carried Charlie before.  So much for not leaving a man behind, huh?

Good stuff to end on:

I’m glad Jody had to save Claire from the Bad Place thing.  The noise they made was pretty creepy.  I really like Alex and it was a delight to see Donna again – despite some clunky dialog.  Something seemed off about Jody though.  I liked her liquor shelf!  Lol.  Not sure on Patience yet, but I liked that she didn’t seem quite so Miss Perfect this ep.    

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, Wynne88 said:

As best I can remember, every time anybody has gone through a rift, they appear in the other world with the rift right behind them.  After all, it is the equivalent of a door.  So how did Sam and Dean end up so far away from it that they couldn't find it after several days of looking?  Turn around, guys.

I didn't have a problem with that since they didn't walk or go through a gift (as seen in previous episodes and Claire/Kaia) they were blasted through the Rift (along with Kaia being blasted to Suix Falls and Jack going who knows where).

It works for me that Sam/Dean ended up far away from the rift

[DittyDotDot]

Welp, overall, I thought it was good; not great, just good. I've seen far, far, far worse pilots and I see a lot of potential for a show here. The actresses all have some good chemistry between them and I think there's some some good story potential. They need to find the balance between the humor and the drama a bit more, and I'd prefer there was NO lead, but a true ensemble show where all the main characters are equal. But, I suspect the CW is going to continue to trade on Kathryn Newton's "IT" factor for a while longer.

Anyhoo, I actually liked Claire throughout most the episode--more than I usually do--but there were a couple very wobbly scenes acting-wise and at the end there where she was patting herself on the back and acting like these other characters where there for her and her alone was a bit much. But, youngin's, whatcha gonna do? ::shrugs:: ;)

Jodio and Donna were awesome!! TBH, I could watch a show with just those two, but I'm glad they're including the other girls. Alex's need to always be there for Jodi, despite not wanting to hunt, was a very nice touch for the character. And Patience played a good straight man and will probably be the audience surrogate if the show gets picked up. To bad we lost the Kaia we knew for the one we don't--but I guess that was to be expected considering Sam and Dean couldn't have a dreamwalker too early in the season--but it is a show on the CW, so, whatcha gonna do? 

Anyhoo, overall, a strong effort, now hopefully we can get back to Supernatural for the rest of the season.

11 hours ago, BoxManLocke said:

That's a hard one to review because of all the creative limitations that come with making a pilot with 6 different characters in the middle of a different show, and the importance of the project for parts of the fandom and myself, so I can't look at it like a regular episode.

So I'll just say I hope WS gets greenlit so it can really become its own thing because the potential is there. I know I want more.

Exactly. 

11 hours ago, Katy M said:

No, no, you let the other person eat, wait to make sure there are no ill effects and then you eat.  

Correct. just like hiking into bear territory, always go with someone slower than you! ;)

10 hours ago, ahrtee said:

Evil Kaia opened a rift that she came through.  I'm sure that's going to figure in somehow.  

Are we sure Evil Kaia opened it? I kinda wonder if it is the same rift that will keep jumping around. Maybe even opens to different universes than just the Bad Place?

Edited January 19, 2018 by DittyDotDot

[Bobcatkitten]

Well for a Supernatural episode it sucked. Five minutes of Sam and Dean - though hilarious - is not enough. And as others have pointed out the rift was there the whole time so huge hole in the writing. 

As a Wayward pilot it was okay. I would watch a few more episodes to see how it settles. My main problem is how much I dislike Claire and that she is the focus. I love Jody and Donna; enjoy Alex; and think Patience is cool. Doesn't matter how I feel about Kaia since they killed her immediately. A big WTF.

The narration has got to go. 

 

Overall, it's been six weeks since Supernatural and I'd like my show back. While I wish the spinoff well and might end up enjoying it, it has taken far too much time from this season. 

[RulerofallIsurvey]

12 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

 I'll be curious to see if that hooded figure was Kaia all along, or whether she just morphed into Kaia after she was killed.  Considering she'd been to the Bad Place enough to have physical scars from being there, it could somehow have been another version of her from the get go. 

That's what I'm thinking - that evil Kaia is just another part of Kaia as a whole.  She told Claire that she'd been to the Bad Place and had been caught before.  But she always got away, so I'm thinking for some reason she couldn't actually 'die' in the Bad Place. 

[gonzosgirrl]

If (when) they do make it to series, I sincerely hope they drop the cheestastic voiceovers. Claire/Kathryn simply can't pull them off. And honestly, if you have to tell me what to feel/think about what we just watched, you're not doing your job (neither the actors nor the writers).

[catrox14]

37 minutes ago, Wynne88 said:

As best I can remember, every time anybody has gone through a rift, they appear in the other world with the rift right behind them.  After all, it is the equivalent of a door.  So how did Sam and Dean end up so far away from it that they couldn't find it after several days of looking?  Turn around, guys.

Oh gods that's rightl LOL.  I'm guessing the excuse will be that Kaia and Jack didn't know what they were doing so when they all went through, the boys were flung far away from the rift opening LOL. 

Upon a 2nd watch I am more annoyed than the first watch LOL. Berens and Dabb sprinkled combinations of Dean and Sam into  Claire which I don't really get since Claire wasn't raised by Dean and Sam, why would she have their traits at all? I'm seeing reviews beyond here that have a lot of people equating Claire with Dean, simply because she's snarky, and says one liners.

The thing is  story wise she is Sam in this. Claire left home like Sam and had to be called back to find someone. Kaia was  fridged for her story, like Jess was for Sam, complete with Dean dragging her away from Kaia's dead body. Big difference though. Kaia wasn't burning on the ceiling. Dean and Sam could have helped bring her body back through the rift but NOPE the story demanded that poor Kaia become Darth Dickbag LOL

 Doesn't work for me because it's TOO MUCH a duplicate of the mothership right down to Claire's story being a repeat of Sam's. That annoys me more than entices me to watch the spinoff. I like Dean and Sam. I don't like Claire and making her Sam and Dean 2.0 doesn't help. Alex is more of her own person at least. 

Claire has no internal life for me that tells me who this person is. She's a caricature of Dean and Sam.  That isn't endearing me to the spinoff. And definitely not if the SL and writing is going to be like in The Bad Place and here.  JMO YMMV

[DittyDotDot]

31 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I didn't have a problem with that since they didn't walk or go through a gift (as seen in previous episodes and Claire/Kaia) they were blasted through the Rift (along with Kaia being blasted to Suix Falls and Jack going who knows where).

It works for me that Sam/Dean ended up far away from the rift

While conveniently convenient, yeah, I figure Sam and Dean were blasted far from the rift, spent two days walking toward it--although they didn't know they were walking toward it; CONVENIENT!--to put them so close to it for Claire to find them immedietly. 

[catrox14]

6 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

If (when) they do make it to series, I sincerely hope they drop the cheestastic voiceovers. Claire/Kathryn simply can't pull them off. And honestly, if you have to tell me what to feel/think about what we just watched, you're not doing your job (neither the actors nor the writers).

They didn't have to ever do that with SPN because the exposition as clunky as it was did the trick. And in the case of Oliver Queen, his voiceovr works because Stephen Amell has the acting chops to pull it off , plus that's a comic book show.  Also, was that Grodd or what in this episode LOL

[TexasGal]

I think after the end of the last episode we spent a lot more time discussing what the monster that made that giant footprint could be and what would be in the alternate universe than the writers did.  

I've seen Kathryn in Big Little Lies and something else recently and she didn't bug the way she does here.  She can't pull off Claire, for whatever reason.  And her flowy barbie hair (or, what, sparkly my little pony - is that what Donna called her?) was really annoying. 

[DittyDotDot]

2 minutes ago, TexasGal said:

And her flowy barbie hair (or, what, sparkly my little pony - is that what Donna called her?) was really annoying.

Rainbow Bright. ;)

 I actually thought Alex's Biker Barbie was more apt! ;)

[Pondlass1]

I only watched with half an eye so I may have missed stuff.  And, of course, Sam and Dean get knocked out by a girl.  I was going to bet the house on this happening.

But, anyhoo, when we last saw Dean he put a gun to the head of a teenage girl so panicked was he to save Mother from her torture chamber. But the rift takes him to a violet tinted forest and not to Mother. And no Jack. Where’s Jack? Wouldn’t he be pissed and frantic that they’re in the wrong place?  Just seemed odd that he didn’t mention anything.  Or maybe he did? I don’t know. But when Dean’s on a mission – look out, he’s a wild and crazy guy. But he seemed pretty chill eating those lizards.

From Jody’s final words I’m assuming this series will remain in Sioux Falls dealing with the rift and whatever comes through it ( a la Sunnydale and the Hellmouth ). They’ve now got a doppelganger Kaia to deal with, not to mention the red eyed bluebloods (although monsters that die from a bullet are pretty boring).  And I’m guessing Dean and Sam deal with all the rest of it? Hope so.

[Katy M]

20 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Oh gods that's rightl LOL.  I'm guessing the excuse will be that Kaia and Jack didn't know what they were doing so when they all went through, the boys were flung far away from the rift opening LOL. 

They definitely were flung out of sight of the rift.  I'm figuring it was because of the force used to open the rift and the angel waves coming along.  But, judging from their escape, they weren't that far away and it's ridiculous to imagine that they couldn't find it for days.

 

21 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

The thing is  story wise she is Sam in this. Claire left home like Sam and had to be called back to find someone.

I thought Alex was SAm because she doesn't want to hunt and wants a normal life and a job like nursing.

[Morrigan2575]

3 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

But, anyhoo, when we last saw Dean he put a gun to the head of a teenage girl so panicked was he to save Mother from her torture chamber. But the rift takes him to a violet tinted forest and not to Mother. And no Jack. Where’s Jack? Wouldn’t he be pissed and frantic that they’re in the wrong place?  Just seemed odd that he didn’t mention anything.  Or maybe he did? I don’t know. But when Dean’s on a mission – look out, he’s a wild and crazy guy. But he seemed pretty chill eating those lizards.

 

That was covered in the episode. They'd been stuck there for 2 days, couldn't find the door back AND as Dean explained, in the past the rift didn't stay open for long. 

This seemed very much in character for Dean, he believed the way out/back was closed and, moved into survive the immediate threat now, worry about anything else later.

Edited January 19, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[Bobcatkitten]

I forgot about how utterly ridiculous Claire flowing hair and heavy makeup were. 

[Bergamot]

The episode was not as bad as it could have been, but ugh! too much Claire!

Everything and everyone was all about Claire, especially Claire herself.  I mean, poor Kaia was dead at the end, but all everyone was focused on was that poor Claire was "broken" and how Claire was going to "need a lot of time" to get over it. Seriously? In the first place, Kaia is the one everyone should be feeling sorry for, and second, come on, they had like a two-minute conversation! (And don't get me started on how after those two minutes, Kaia was so overwhelmed by the awesomeness and importance of Claire that she volunteered to take her to the Bad Place, and then sacrificed herself to save her.)

And I was frankly repulsed by Claire telling Jody that she now understood Jody's feelings about losing another child -- as if Claire's regrets, or hurt feelings or whatever, over the death of someone she knew for less than a day could be equated to Jody's grief over the death of her son. Sure, Claire, it is exactly the same thing!

I feel as if the show was just assuming that we all love Claire already, and didn't see any need to work on making her a character we could care about. For me, the way that apparently she had never really thought about the fact that she could die while hunting (Patience's vision) or the fact that her stubbornness and recklessness might endanger others (Kaia) didn't make her come across as youthfully fearless or even adorably headstrong, but as shallow, self-serving, and really lacking in imagination. Instead of having everyone feel so bad for her at the end, I wanted someone to say, "Yeah, well, we told you so!" That's mean, I know, but that's what the show gets for assuming the Claire-love and not working harder, as I said, to make me care about her as a character.

[gonzosgirrl]

12 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

I only watched with half an eye so I may have missed stuff.  And, of course, Sam and Dean get knocked out by a girl.  I was going to bet the house on this happening.

But, anyhoo, when we last saw Dean he put a gun to the head of a teenage girl so panicked was he to save Mother from her torture chamber. But the rift takes him to a violet tinted forest and not to Mother. And no Jack. Where’s Jack? Wouldn’t he be pissed and frantic that they’re in the wrong place?  Just seemed odd that he didn’t mention anything.  Or maybe he did? I don’t know. But when Dean’s on a mission – look out, he’s a wild and crazy guy. But he seemed pretty chill eating those lizards.

From Jody’s final words I’m assuming this series will remain in Sioux Falls dealing with the rift and whatever comes through it ( a la Sunnydale and the Hellmouth ). They’ve now got a doppelganger Kaia to deal with, not to mention the red eyed bluebloods (although monsters that die from a bullet are pretty boring).  And I’m guessing Dean and Sam deal with all the rest of it? Hope so.

Everything about this episode was written to serve the premise of the badass!Sisters, so of course the brothers' competence was sacrificed on that altar. How many times have we seen one or the other of them tied up like that, and work their way free? Not to mention Dean spent a year in Purgatory without being knocked out and tied to a tree by a monster, never mind a Teenage Mutant Ninja Hunter. And he ran, all day, every day, but here, two days later, they are still meandering through the woods. Oy.

[catrox14]

11 minutes ago, Katy M said:

They definitely were flung out of sight of the rift.  I'm figuring it was because of the force used to open the rift and the angel waves coming along.  But, judging from their escape, they weren't that far away and it's ridiculous to imagine that they couldn't find it for days.

 

I thought Alex was SAm because she doesn't want to hunt and wants a normal life and a job like nursing.

I did say that Claire was a combo of Dean and Sam. Alex also is Dean to an extent because she made the pont that she stuck with Jody for Jody, like Dean stuck with John for John the difference being that sticking with John meant hunting and sticking with Jody meant staying in Sioux Falls and helping in other ways.

I guess I failed to make clear was that both Claire and Alex were basically given the combine character beats of BOTH, however I focused on Claire because Claire was clearly the focus of this episode. Nothing with Alex changes that Claire was given Sam's SL almost whole cloth right down to a dead GF.  I think we'll find out that Claire fell in love with Kaia and that's why she sought to protect her. JMHO cause I saw some sparks there. The only difference is that Kaia is dead but her doppelganger is there now. Unless the Kaia that died was the doppelganger or something.

22 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

This seemed very much in character for Dean, he believed the way out/back was closed and, moved into survive the immediate threat now, worry about anything else later.

Sure he would have focused on getting out and surviving but the moment he considered they might be there forever, I'd think he  would have been more frantic and concerned about not being able to get to Mary. They would have at least name dropped Mary in the conversation. I don't recollect that happening. But maybe I missed it.

[Pondlass1]

13 minutes ago, scribe95 said:

forgot about how utterly ridiculous Claire flowing hair and heavy makeup were.

I agree.  It was out of place.  And those cliche-ridden opening scenes ....good grief !! Do we have to have it shoved down our throats that she's one super duper hunter?  Crikey it was eye-rolling!!

Kathryn appears to have very good representation.  If another more flashy gig is offered, she'll leave this "little" show I think. That would make room for the others to glow.

[Morrigan2575]

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Sure he would have focused on getting out and surviving but the moment he considered they might be there forever, I'd think he  would have been more frantic and concerned about not being able to get to Mary. They would have at least name dropped Mary in the conversation. I don't recollect that happening. But maybe I missed it.

Personaly, I don't think he would have. I think he would focus on survival since he can't do anything about Mary at this point.

Plus they didn't really have much time to just talk in that scene, since it was interrupted by Giant Demon Orc thing and they ran off. 

To me Dean's attitude was 1) survive 2) find door home (maybe) 3) plan for soul crushing disappointment in getting stuck in Blue Land 4) worry about Mary if/when they get back AND find Jack.

YMMV

[Pondlass1]

15 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I think he would focus on survival since he can't do anything about Mary at this point

Dean is a survivor above all else.  But for continuity, for audiences watching with last episode in mind ... wouldn't the writer have included something depicting his desperation about Mother?  The guy was frantic last time we saw him.  That shouldn't be hand waved away with a lizard eating scene.  We should have got something else.

Different writers write different episodes, of course.  But it's on the showrunner to dovetail the story for continuity.  And it's rarely attended to by Andrew. He is very lacking in this regard.  An issue that's all important one episode is completely forgotten the next.  

Sustain the suspense .

[General Days]

10 hours ago, Commando Cody said:

Holy God this was awful. I hate to say it, but as far as back door pilots go, this was Bloodlines bad. 

I never saw Sex and the City, but wasn't reading parts of a diary the deal with that show? So this is supposed to be Monsters and the City?

The producers of this show must really love Kathryn Newton. I don't see any other reason why they would keep her around. Whenever Claire isn't whining and bitchy, it sounds like Dean's writer is writing her lines. As an actress, she is hard to watch. 

I love Jodi and Donna together. I thought the Jodi and Alex dynamic was strong and interesting. If they had just stuck with these three, I probably would have liked it. Claire dragged the entire episode down. Psychic Girl was a close second. I thought Claire and Dream Walker were having moments. I could tell from the start that the hooded figure was a woman. I just didn't figure on the doppelgänger.

 

People seem pretty excited to see this as a series. I don't know if it will happen, but if they don't lose about half the cast, it probably won't last for a full season.

 

I thought "Wayward Sisters" was a great backdoor pilot. "Bloodlines" was so bad I have never watched it again, even when I've rewatched the series. Pilots are pilots (and backdoor ones are usually a step down from those). They have an ugly job. They have to set up everything. 

Claire's narration put me in mind of Elena and her diary entries in the early episodes of The Vampire Diaries. If The CW picks up Wayward (I think they will), I doubt it will last long.

 

3 hours ago, ae2 said:

I was so stoked when I saw Claire writing in a hunter's journal like John always kept.

I was so bitterly disappointed when I discovered it was actually a teenage girl's diary.

 

When was it revealed to be just a diary rather than a hunter's journal? I interpreted it as sort of proto-journaling from a fledgling hunter. That a teenage girl included some personal thoughts in hers, where widower, single-parent, and former Marine John Winchester did not, doesn't change that for me.

Did I miss something? (I might have -- that's not meant to be a snide question). 

 

2 hours ago, Katy M said:

That was the one thing that really annoyed me about the episode.  Even though we would have lost the really awesome lizard scene, that could have been fixed by having them caught right away.  Or, being chased away and then caught and brought back to the sacrifice spot. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I didn't have a problem with that since they didn't walk or go through a gift (as seen in previous episodes and Claire/Kaia) they were blasted through the Rift (along with Kaia being blasted to Suix Falls and Jack going who knows where).

It works for me that Sam/Dean ended up far away from the rift

 

I figured they lost the rift, because they kept running from monsters. They landed in the giant footprint of the Lizard King or whatever, which could have been far from the rift as mentioned. During their screen time last night, they'd stop and hear lurking threats and move on. 

I don't care that they didn't have monsters with personalities. To me, the pilot was meant to set up this group of women and see if they work as a team. I think they do. I'm sure the writers know they can't just have speechless boogie men as the women's opponents in every episode. I don't think last night was supposed to be about the whole Wayward Universe. I think it was supposed to show us how and why these women fight and fight together. I think it accomplished that. 

I think Newton's Claire has historically been an angsty (although not without reason) teen pain in the ass. I think last night set up her evolution. Furthermore, I think she was compelling in the role (for maybe the first or second time that she's played Claire Novack).

I trust Dabb and Berens enough to know that, if this show is picked up as a regular series, the protagonists have to be likable (which doesn't mean perfect, it just means we can stand to watch them weekly). 

I hope they tone down Claire's makeup. I kind of liked the flowy hair, though. It's far less ridiculous than Dean surviving on bacon cheeseburgers, excess alcohol, and pie, and having Jensen Ackles well-cared for body and beautiful skin.  Either way, thank the powers they didn't give her Sam hair. 

 

Edited January 19, 2018 by General Days

[gonzosgirrl]

3 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

Dean is a survivor above all else.  But for continuity, for audiences watching with last episode in mind ... wouldn't the writer have included something depicting his desperation about Mother?  The guy was frantic last time we saw him.  That shouldn't be hand waved away with a lizard eating scene.  We should have got something else.

Different writers write different episodes, of course.  But it's on the showrunner to dovetail the story for continuity.  And it's rarely attended to by Andrew. He is very lacking in this regard.  An issue that's all important one episode is completely forgotten the next.  

Sustain the suspense .

Maybe this will be like Bloodlines - they seem to have forgotten the entire families of monsters living in Chicago. :) There was so much, Winchester-wise, that made no sense in this episode, that I have to think it will be treated as 'other' unless/until it goes to series. Dean and Sam just casually driving away at the end, with all that's going on? Uh, no.

[Boopsahoy]

17 minutes ago, General Days said:

 

I thought "Wayward Sisters" was a great backdoor pilot. "Bloodlines" was so bad I have never watched it again, even when I've rewatched the series. Pilots are pilots (and backdoor ones are usually a step down from those). They have an ugly job. They have to set up everything. 

Claire's narration put me in mind of Elena and her diary entries in the early episodes of The Vampire Diaries. If The CW picks up Wayward (I think they will), I doubt it will last long.

 

 

When was it revealed to be just a diary rather than a hunter's journal? I interpreted it as sort of proto-journaling from a fledgling hunter. That a teenage girl included some personal thoughts in hers, where widower, single-parent, and former Marine John Winchester did not, doesn't change that for me.

Did I miss something? (I might have -- that's not meant to be a snide question). 

 

 

 

 

I figured they lost the rift, because they kept running from monsters. They landed in the giant footprint of the Lizard King or whatever, which could have been far from the rift as mentioned. During their screen time last night, they'd stop and hear lurking threats and move on. 

I don't care that they didn't have monsters with personalities. To me, the pilot was meant to set up this group of women and see if they work as a team. I think they do. I'm sure the writers know they can't just have speechless boogie men as the women's opponents in every episode. I don't think last night was supposed to be about the whole Wayward Universe. I think it was supposed to show us how and why these women fight and fight together. I think it accomplished that. 

I think Newton's Claire has historically been an angsty (although not without reason) teen pain in the ass. I think last night set up her evolution. Furthermore, I think she was compelling in the role (for maybe the first or second time that she's played Claire Novack).

I trust Dabb and Berens enough to know that, if this show is picked up as a regular series, the protagonists have to be likable (which doesn't mean perfect, it just means we can stand to watch them weekly). 

I hope they tone down Claire's makeup. I kind of liked the flowy hair, though. It's far less ridiculous than Dean surviving on bacon cheeseburgers, excess alcohol, and pie, and having Jensen Ackles well-cared for body and beautiful skin.  Either way, thank the powers they didn't give her Sam hair. 

 

I enjoyed it too-for a back door pilot. Yes too much makeup on Claire-I didn't even recognize her at first! I can watch Jody and Donna all day! My husband and I both agree that we would watch the spinoff but we would both like more Jody and Donna and less Claire.

[General Days]

2 minutes ago, Boopsahoy said:

I enjoyed it too-for a back door pilot. Yes too much makeup on Claire-I didn't even recognize her at first! I can watch Jody and Donna all day! My husband and I both agree that we would watch the spinoff but we would both like more Jody and Donna and less Claire.

I would honestly watch the Jody the Sioux Falls Sheriff show, even if it premiered after Sam and Dean managed to rid the world of every monster, demon, and ghost, so yes, more Jody, and I would like more Donna, too. I kind of figure that will work itself out, though. 

For the first however many seasons on The WB and The CW, the show was trying to court the young male demographic. Now there are plenty of male fans, but in my opinion, the passionate fanbase that turned this show from a bubble show to a show you can't kill -- no matter how many times you move it -- is largely female and not all that young (at least anymore, because the show is on its thousandth season). I do think Jody and Donna will get their due if we get a series. 

[UNOSEZ]

10 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I would have traded the Banes twins for Claire.

This times 100...even tho the sister is made of wood now.. Claire was insufferable... Patience was kinda meh but I can see how her growth would work.. Donna is Donna.. But too much Donna may kill me... Alex was great as the responsible sister with a level head and who knows her strengths and weaknesses and Jody was as always great.. If it becomes a show I'm down... Just not looking fwd to Claire being the de facto lead

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Personaly, I don't think he would have. I think he would focus on survival since he can't do anything about Mary at this point.

Plus they didn't really have much time to just talk in that scene, since it was interrupted by Giant Demon Orc thing and they ran off. 

To me Dean's attitude was 1) survive 2) find door home (maybe) 3) plan for soul crushing disappointment in getting stuck in Blue Land 4) worry about Mary if/when they get back AND find Jack.

YMMV

I'm talking about the issue of Dean being so freaked out in the Bad Place that he put a gun to Kaia's head and it was ALL MARY must get MARY. Must SAVE MARY at all costs, for him to not even bring her up at all, even a mention is IMO poor writing and poor continuity. It doesn't make sense based on his behavior leading up to getting tossed into the The Bad Place.  That's what I'm saying.

[catrox14]

46 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

ifferent writers write different episodes, of course.  But it's on the showrunner to dovetail the story for continuity.  And it's rarely attended to by Andrew. He is very lacking in this regard.  An issue that's all important one episode is completely forgotten the next.  

In this case, Berens wrote The Bad Place and Berens and Dabb wrote Wayward Sisters. The same writer for both episodes. Have no idea how they are going to play this one off. 

47 minutes ago, General Days said:

When was it revealed to be just a diary rather than a hunter's journal? I interpreted it as sort of proto-journaling from a fledgling hunter. That a teenage girl included some personal thoughts in hers, where widower, single-parent, and former Marine John Winchester did not, doesn't change that for me.

FWIW, John had photos of the boys and his Marine buddies and his medals in his journal. It's a journal/diary for both of them.

Regardless for me, it was another "homage"/rip off from the pilot for this episode. Annoys me. 

[catrox14]

47 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Maybe this will be like Bloodlines - they seem to have forgotten the entire families of monsters living in Chicago. :) There was so much, Winchester-wise, that made no sense in this episode, that I have to think it will be treated as 'other' unless/until it goes to series. Dean and Sam just casually driving away at the end, with all that's going on? Uh, no.

Believe it or not, I thought Sam and Dean had a more logical role in Bloodlines than this episode. HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE LOL.  They told Ennis that he would have to make a choice about continuing to hunt or not and they did help him get to where he needed to be. It was STUPID and annoying for sure but they didn't need saving. They left because Cas got a lead on Metatron and they left for that compelling reason.

Here, it's all

Jody -- 'No we got this.'

Dean -- 'Damn right'
me:  So, Jodio, when that monster you killed but didn't burn rises from it's grave, don't call Dean and Sam for help!

30 minutes ago, General Days said:

ase that turned this show from a bubble show to a show you can't kill -- no matter how many times you move it -- is largely female and not all that young (at least anymore, because the show is on its thousandth season). I do think Jody and Donna will get their due if we get a series. 

It's about 50/50 between male and female in Nielsen ratings.

[Commando Cody]

Weekend at Bobby's. The monster had to be stabbed seven times. They buried it. It rose because Rufus only stabbed it five times. 

They have been burying monsters for years on this show. Sometimes they had to keep the heads separated from their bodies. I don't know if burning the monsters is always a fool-proof plan either. Plus they would have to explain the bonfire going all the time in the sheriff's backyard. They should consider a wood chipper. It might be easier to dispose of the monster that way. 

 

The funny thing is, I would watch Jody and Donna. It could be a total Supernatural rip-off and I would still watch Jody and Donna. They don't even need the girls. I think they made a misjudgment on who people would watch. Kind of like Charmed. From what I was reading, the fans would have watched the crap out of a show with Piper's sons. Instead they tried to force a hateable character into the mix and Charmed ended horribly.  They can still have their "Empowered Women" show. It would just be with fewer women. 

I don't think the actor who played Krissy is doing much these days. She showed up on Arrow for a bit. I haven't seen her lately. I'm surprised they didn't include her in this. Not that I mind. I never liked Krissy, but they could have a plot where the rest of her Scooby Gang was killed by vampires.  Wasn't Krissy's second episode a back door pilot as well?

[DittyDotDot]

7 minutes ago, Commando Cody said:

Wasn't Krissy's second episode a back door pilot as well?

No, it just seemed that way. There were three or four episodes in the back half of S8 that could've all been backdoor pilots in a way. 

8 minutes ago, Commando Cody said:

They have been burying monsters for years on this show. Sometimes they had to keep the heads separated from their bodies. I don't know if burning the monsters is always a fool-proof plan either. Plus they would have to explain the bonfire going all the time in the sheriff's backyard. They should consider a wood chipper. It might be easier to dispose of the monster that way. 

Wood chipper does trump everything. ;)

[RulerofallIsurvey]

1 hour ago, General Days said:

That a teenage girl included some personal thoughts in hers, where widower, single-parent, and former Marine John Winchester did not, doesn't change that for me.

I thought it was pretty well established that John also put personal thoughts in his journal - at least in the early days of his hunting. 

1 hour ago, General Days said:

 Either way, thank the powers they didn't give her Sam hair. 

Hey now, some of like Sam's hair!  :) 

8 minutes ago, Commando Cody said:

I don't think the actor who played Krissy is doing much these days. She showed up on Arrow for a bit. I haven't seen her lately. I'm surprised they didn't include her in this.

I always liked Krissy.  I'd like to see her in WS.  Her hunting always made more sense (since her dad was a hunter and she was pretty much raised in it) than Claire taking up hunting, imo. 

[Katy M]

11 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I thought it was pretty well established that John also put personal thoughts in his journal - at least in the early days of his hunting. 

I don't know about that.  "I went to Missouri and found the truth."  Sam said one day just had the word "Minnesota."  Other than that, I don't know that we know any specific entries.  But, on the other hand, Henry seemed to think that he got to know a little about John from his journal and it's hard to see how that would happen if it was just facts.  Same with Dean saying he read it I forgot how many times. 

[RulerofallIsurvey]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

But, on the other hand, Henry seemed to think that he got to know a little about John from his journal and it's hard to see how that would happen if it was just facts.  Same with Dean saying he read it I forgot how many times. 

Same with Mary reading the journal.

[Casseiopeia]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

I don't know about that.  "I went to Missouri and found the truth."  Sam said one day just had the word "Minnesota."  Other than that, I don't know that we know any specific entries.  But, on the other hand, Henry seemed to think that he got to know a little about John from his journal and it's hard to see how that would happen if it was just facts.  Same with Dean saying he read it I forgot how many times. 

John tore out all the pages that had to do with Adam.  He must have had personal comments about his "other" son in there he didn't want Sam and Dean knowing.

[Katy M]

6 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

John tore out all the pages that had to do with Adam.  He must have had personal comments about his "other" son in there he didn't want Sam and Dean knowing.

I thought he only tore out one page.  From the case where he met Kate and he wouldn't have know about Adam then.  Probably just covering his tracks.  Or a way to make it conveniently convenient for Sam and Dean to not know what he was hunting.  Not to mention the fact that it was a ring binder.  No reason to even have evidence of a ripped out page.

[auntvi]

7 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I thought he only tore out one page. 

I watched the episode last night. Sam said John tore out "pages".  As far as it being a ring binder, I've been known to tear pages out, especially if the binder is full and it would be a PITA to open & close. Of course I'm like the opposite of OCD.

[SueB]

I think Kaia has always been split in two.  Sort of like Capt Kirk and the transporter accident. Or Charlie as well.  Kaia we met was the meek one, wanting to run and hide but with sufficient moral fiber to do the right thing.  Darth Kaia was the Bad Place Badass version.  The fact that she’s split in two is why she is always drawn to that place.  There was a reason we saw ‘dead Kaia’s body’ in the Bad Place.   I hope they get those two jokey parts together because I liked ‘meek’ Kaia.  And yes, I know she was not completely meek but she did take a ton of drugs to try and keep awake for fear of going back in her mind.  And she’s definitely more ‘flight’ than ‘fight’.  

[Katy M]

20 minutes ago, auntvi said:

I watched the episode last night. Sam said John tore out "pages".  As far as it being a ring binder, I've been known to tear pages out, especially if the binder is full and it would be a PITA to open & close. Of course I'm like the opposite of OCD.

SAM
From January of 1990, saying he's headed to Minnesota to check out a case. That's, roughly, oh, about nine months before the kid was born.

DEAN
Coincidence.

SAM
Coincidence. Next two pages of the journal—torn out.

It does kind of make you wonder what he wrote?  Sex details?  LOL.   But, he obviously tore out the case details, too, because they had no idea what it was.

[KirkB]

I would say the three most likely scenarios are:

1) Some variation of the split Kaia idea.

2) The monster took Kaia's appearance for some reason.

3) And the ever popular thing in Kaia's dead body.

Of course it's possible all the women in that world look like Kaia. But that seems unlikely.

Personally, I'm presuming the woman who caught Sam and Dean was always Kaia's twin one way or another, why else hide her face?

Edited January 19, 2018 by KirkB