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S05.E10: Moments of Vision


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On ‎1‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 9:37 PM, saoirse said:
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A sense of doom looms over Kattegat as bloodshed ensues. The defeated army flees in the face of the victors, and a legendary warrior makes his way home.

There aren't many legendary warriors. Plus, I thought I saw some sort of a trailer?

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38 minutes ago, Stratego said:

There aren't many legendary warriors. Plus, I thought I saw some sort of a trailer?

It is pretty obvious who the legendary warrior is especially since he is "returning home" and was mentioned more than a little last episode.  And yeah I saw that trailer too.

Edited by green
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Just realized that was the mid-season finale. Random ending shots. I am so over Floki. The colony storyline sucks the momentum out of every episode. I think I just realized that I don't care about anyone on this show. I mean, Ragnar always annoyed me, but I realize it was, and probably continues to be, my sensibilities at odds with the culture. Now though, everyone ranks up there with him.

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Well, I'm relieved that I'm not losing my mind in my confusion. It was hard to concentrate, as I kept going outside to try to see where the smoke smell was coming from and making sure it wasn't in my house.  I called it with Uncle Rollo appearing at the last second.  Will Floki follow through?

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Not sure what to think of that.....

So much back and forth I grew bored with the battle.  I found myself wondering what Floki was up to,  which is rare.  Then he offers himself for s sacrifice?  Really?  They all want to die now.  

Rollo,  the only dude that has aged lately. Mushmouth must be hell to live with! 

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5 minutes ago, magdalene said:

Color me confuzzled - who died besides Halfdan and Bjorn's new Squeeze?

Rollo having aged is realistic though, Lagertha still looking dewy and fresh not so much.

I think that's it.  Lagertha looks broken,  she may go out Ragnar style,  all defeated.  

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14 minutes ago, magdalene said:

who died besides Halfdan and Bjorn's new Squeeze?

I think Hvitserk was the only other one that we were familiar with.  

UPDATE:  I read elsewhere that he survived.  I'm so confused.  I didn't even see Astrid die.  Will watch again tomorrow.  Just called the fire dept, to investigate the smoke smell in the neighborhood.  

Edited by Babalooie
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13 minutes ago, Stoned said:

Jarl Borg/Torvis son..Edit and Astrid.

We should've know Guthrum was gonna die. After getting that knife/dagger thing from Bjorn...it was practically an anvil being dropped.

Are we really sure Astrid is dead? That whole thing between her and Lagertha was just, what?

Edited by Silverglitter
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Someone might want to clue Hirst in that lots and lots of artsy confusing nonlinear storytelling in place of anything resembling a coherent narrative is where The Walking Dead really went off the rails.  Well, that's not all it was, but it's been a long ride down from there.  At one point, my husband wondered if the show couldn't just give us a list of who was going to bite it to save him the trouble of trying to follow all of that.  It was mostly an hour of watching the clock run out before getting a brief Rollo sighting at the end.  But hey, at least both Astrid and Princess Reindeer Balls are gone even if we did have to watch Bjorn try to grieve over a woman he'd known all of about five minutes.

See guys, this is why no one should follow Floki.  Nothing good comes of it.  I'm only afraid someone will again talk him out of going out as sacrifice.

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20 minutes ago, ihartcoffee said:

I think that's it.  Lagertha looks broken,  she may go out Ragnar style,  all defeated.  

Ever since the Seer told her that she'd be killed by a son of Ragnar, I've always assumed that she'd go out after being accidentally killed by Bjorn (because irony). After this episode I'm thinking Bjorn might end up mercy killing her because she won't be in any shape to flee and he's not going to risk her falling into Ivar's clutches without her wits about her.

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12 minutes ago, Steph J said:

Ever since the Seer told her that she'd be killed by a son of Ragnar, I've always assumed that she'd go out after being accidentally killed by Bjorn (because irony). After this episode I'm thinking Bjorn might end up mercy killing her because she won't be in any shape to flee and he's not going to risk her falling into Ivar's clutches without her wits about her.

That's an interesting idea.  The preview for the next half-season seemed to imply Ivar was going to make a sacrifice of her; I don't want to see that.  Actually, almost every time we saw Lagertha pause and stare off meaningfully in the midst of the battle, I expected to see her P.O.V. shot of a young farmer/warrior Ragnar, smiling and striding down a hillside toward her, untouched by all the mayhem around him.  That would have been the one "vision" - and the one cameo - that would have had some significance for me.  Just as a viewer. 

Edited by mcjen
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1 hour ago, ihartcoffee said:

I think that's it.  Lagertha looks broken,  she may go out Ragnar style,  all defeated.  

Was it just me (or maybe my older t.v.), or did Lagertha in her last scene look like her hair had turned white?  Also, when Margarethe was with the Seer, I was certain she was going to take him out for telling her what she didn’t want to hear, at first,--not just that Ubbe wouldn’t be king, but that she was mad.  

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2 hours ago, Silverglitter said:

I really wish we knew the time frames here. Apparently, Lagertha and Heahmund have progressed to 'epic love'. lol

Seriously, after such an epic life, a kiss from lil tiny Henry Tudor was the one think you needed before death?

1 hour ago, magdalene said:

Color me confuzzled - who died besides Halfdan and Bjorn's new Squeeze?

Rollo having aged is realistic though, Lagertha still looking dewy and fresh not so much.

I really need to drink to drink some of the unicorn blood that keeps the actress who plays Lagertha looking so young, especially since her character had that giant headed son.

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The Ray Harryhausen style skeleton warriors was a cool touch.

We are supposed to believe that Psycho Boy Ivar can walk around without his crutches? Seriously? BTW, he’s some badass warrior, isn’t he? Didn’t do a lick of fighting. If the series becomes centered around Ivar, I’ll be through with it.

I admit it, I cried when Halfdan died. I had really started to like him.

Lagertha did look as if she had white hair at the end,

Wish Torvi had killed Margrethe, then hugged her kids.

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They are really dragging this out and I don’t really care about anyone anymore. I only know who I want to see dead...Ivar and Judith.  I hate Ivar, I can practically feel my blood boil whenever that psychopath is on the screen. And Judith should have been iced ages ago, I wanted to punch her in the face last week.

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2 hours ago, ihartcoffee said:

Not sure what to think of that.....

So much back and forth I grew bored with the battle.  I found myself wondering what Floki was up to,  which is rare.  Then he offers himself for s sacrifice?  Really?  They all want to die now.  

Rollo,  the only dude that has aged lately. Mushmouth must be hell to live with! 

Rollo still looked good, older but good.  Is Gisla even still around I wonder?  In any case Rollo was a sight for sore eyes for me.  It was like confusion/boredom/do I care about any of these people and then "Hey look it's Rollo!" rolling on up in his ship.  Rollo up for the magical mystery tour then? Is he going to make everyone an offer they can't refuse?  Will we finally get Norse farmers in Normandy?  I don't know.  I guess we'll see in Season 5 part 2.  

(Actually I do like Harald, I think it's the actor, Peter Franzen, he strike me as really a very good actor) (Actually again, I didn't really have much of a problem following it, I kind of liked the non-linear storytelling, it's just the story itself wasn't very well written)

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-It's nice to see Rollo's back,but like everyone else I don't see why would he help Ivar and  Hvitserk,he barely knows them.I felt during the episode in Spain that he was trying to be on good terms with Bjorn.I think adding Poppa to the Frankish storyline would be interesting,but I don't see it happening.

-Why is Margrethe suddnly the bad guy,I'm not a fan of her,but Ubbe saying it was a mistake to marry because she's ambitious is weird,cause' everybody's ambitious in the show .

-I liked that they had the Halfdan and Harald sing one last time.Halfdan was just starting to grow on me,the two actors have great chemistry as brothers.I would've liked more of Halfdan before killing him off.

-Introducing Snaefrid and killing her right away makes no sense.I hope we'll see more of the Samis,though.

-I thought the bishop was interesting to watch for some reason ,,but after starting to shag Lagretha,all interest is gone.

-I thought Guthrum actor doesn't fit well,he just looks odd around the other actors,can't but my finger on what's makes him odd.Anyways,dead or alive he's not adding anything to the show.he should've been used  in the great heathen army line like he's supposed to.

-I'm confused about Astrid,did she kill herself because she's having the rapist's child,or because she doesn't like living with King Harald,I don't think Harald would've found out that it's not his.

-I'm glad they kept Hvitserk,I just want to see how he develops.

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Well, I really enjoyed this episode and thought it was much better than last week.  I liked the nonlinear editing and found it easy to follow.  Great battle scenes and I liked the little moments between the characters, even if I could care less about Astrid and Princess Reindeer Balls (the one-track shot of her fighting was pretty cool though).  Agreed that they are dragging out Lagertha's death but that seems to be par for the course on this show.  The Bishop also seems to be useless.

But again, really liked the various character interactions.

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I read three or four reviews last night before turning in, and they all seemed to like the episode (one raved).  But this was the one I found most interesting:  https://www.avclub.com/in-its-bloody-mid-season-finale-vikings-finds-some-red-1822383062

A couple highlights:

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“Moments Of Vision,” Vikings’ mid-season finale, seeks to build powerful moments on top of inadequate foundations. It’s to Michael Hirst’s credit that many of his bold individual conceits here work as well as they do. But that can’t take away the fact that this fifth season has wobbled mightily without the unifying force that was Ragnar Lothbrok to guide it. Still, credit where it’s due.

 

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The episode largely eschews the often deadly exposition and over-explanation that’s marked this season, taking the form as it does of one battle, one day, with fleeting digressions flashing back to the various characters’ preparations for war. One thing that Vikings largely lost this season was its power to be still. Without Travis Fimmel and Ragnar’s enigmatic presence to assure us that there was a greater purpose to events than we understood in the moment, this season has, to its serious detriment, fallen back on words. Words have never been Vikings’ strength. Or, rather, its strength lay in the judiciously chosen words of people unused to expressing themselves in words. This season has seen these descendants and contemporaries of Ragnar Lothbrok spilling their feelings and intentions in prosaic pronouncements that, in the clipped and variable accents that remain Vikings’ approximation of ancient Norse-speak, too often emerged to deadening effect. Hirst’s chosen to largely jettison all that talk going into the season’s halfway point, and it’s invigorating.

I've been increasingly aware of how much I miss Travis Fimmel/Ragnar this season, since I never thought of myself as particularly entranced by him to begin with.  But I must admit, his silences were compelling; they always left me with the impression that there was a thought-process going on inside his head...even if I might not know what it was.  Now, over and over again, I find myself looking at many of the current cast members' faces, staring glumly and vaguely toward camera, and I inevitably think: big slab of meat.  (Ivar is my exception here.)  I honestly don't know if this suggests Fimmel was that much better or if some novel aspect of the show has just worn off on me.

Likewise, the narrative feels like it's not going anywhere, for me.  Or, again, maybe it only feels that way because I'm having such a hard time caring about any of the characters particularly.  Honestly, I felt more invested in Earl Haraldson, Siggy, and Jarl Borg than I do in any character now.  And I'm getting pretty tired of all the battle scenes.  That's how I find them now - tiresome.  I remember when I used to be on the edge of my seat when things finally developed to the point of battle.

And yet...I suspect I'll keep watching until this show ends.  Mostly because I'm a sucker for historical series, and because this is a time period that hasn't been explored much in television or films.  But I do wish often that the creators had approached it as a limited run series (of 2 or 3 seasons) with a definite story arc in mind, rather than following the standard American television model of, "Hey, let's see how long we can keep milking this!"

Edited by mcjen
edited to add that Ivar does look like he's thinking about something. Something crazy.
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Man... If this show falls into the hands if that mad woman Margrethe or that spoiled brat Ivar... I'm out... Sorry to see halfdan go... And ima need to see ivar actually fight someone or ima have a hard time believing he's respected... Seeing him scowl from up high while everyone else was in the midst of a battle he started yet has had no real interaction with is infuriating... Hvitserk should just slit his throat and be done with it.. The plot armor around Ivar is ridiculous 

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A lot of reviewers seem to have liked it.  Upon further reflection, I'm about half and half on it and do see what they were trying to do.  It was much much better than the previous episode and there were a number of lovely visuals and effective small moments scattered throughout.  But as always, the show is at its best when it's not trying to be bigger than life Game of Thrones spectacle and focuses on just being Vikings with all of its innate otherworldliness and more manageable scale.

I did quite like opening with the Finehair brothers singing from both sides of the battlefield.  They were introduced as the much baser more mindlessly opportunistic Vikings but by his end, Halfdan did see something bigger in what they were doing as he says in his final monologue to Bjorn that he's grateful to him not just for saving his life but showing him that there was a whole larger world beyond just endlessly fighting in petty internecine wars.  Of course he says that just before he's killed in one such petty internecine war, but I guess you take what you can get.  I'm still not sure if I'm supposed to be seeing this and the last few episodes with the tedious unending war for Kattegat as a terrible pointless waste, but rather than being enthralled by any spectacle of it that's how it's reading to me.  It's all such a waste because my husband became your husband and your mommy killed my mommy.

The characterization for Hvitserk is still so all over the place that I have no idea what we're supposed to think he actually thinks.  Is he maybe regretting his choice to side with Ivar?  Very possibly.  Ubbe proves once again that in being the nicer brother and for all of his talk, he doesn't have the fortitude to face down a brother on the battlefield.  Lagertha is giving me serious shades of last season Ragnar just wanting it to be over with and the world, the gods, whatever not obliging her.  It's very telling that Ivar's vision is the only one that wasn't shaded by regrets or personal relationships with anyone but skeletons fighting because that's all these random people are to him.  I am curious to see where Rollo fits into all of this years after he seems to have washed his hands of all things Vikings and now that he's not nursing a perennial chip on his shoulder and playing second fiddle to Ragnar.

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1 hour ago, mcjen said:

And I'm getting pretty tired of the battle scenes.

I do think the sheer number of battle scenes this year has diminished them over all.  It's something I've been noticing.

The earlier battles on Vikings were smaller scale and didn't have CGI.  They were amazing, visceral fights.  Now these fights have all the time on a much larger scale, with CGI being utilized and they all feel like the same exact fight.  That's one I liked that tracking shot of Princess Reindeer Balls and the Sami fighting...that added a different element to these battles.  Now they all just blend together into the same kind of battle.  They don't have the creativity of the earlier fights or the later ones in France.

Edited by benteen
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The scene with Harald and Halfdan singing really got to me.  I figured Halfdan was probably going to bite it but I was still hoping it wouldn't happen.  Those two Viking meatheads kind of grew on me during this season, and kudos to the actors.   

Lagertha's hair did look white at the end, which makes me wonder if she's going mad.  I like the way the writers are slowly preparing me for her death, much like they prepared me for Ragnar's.

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Rollo pulling up like a boss lol.    I’m not even mad at Rollo either.  He spent his whole life living in Ragnar’s shadow as a second banana/side kick.

 The French were like “Hey we’ll make ya a noble lord and offer you a smoking hot wife and you’ll be wealthy and important.  We just need you to protect us from your brother.”  Rollo: “ say no more new fam, I got you” and he wasn’t even vicious about it.  He didn’t try to kill or capture Ragnar, he just wanted to repel him from France like “sorry Bro it’s my turn to shine and have you seen my new wife and these ballin threads, that’s gold bruh that’s gold.”

Lagertha is broken and a shadow of her former self.  Can He-man help pick up the pieces and help her heal?

Was starting to like Harald but then he killed his brother *womp womp wommm*. No more comedic buddy adventures with Bjorn ?.  My favorite episode is still when they were cruising the med.  Halfdan smashed and Bjorn was ok with that lol ?.

Floki done went from cult leader to first sacrifice of the new world...maybe?  Who knew starting a new world could be so hard, guess Vikings gonna Viking.

Edited by Lady A
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I actually loved this episode.  Yeah it was over the top with people stopping to say good-bye to dead people lying on the battlefield but the visions bits I liked.  There were a couple of times in my life when I was in mortal danger for about a couple of seconds, nothing for real big.  But during those times I felt separated from the rest of people around me and in a separate but parallel world to them with the inability to communicate with them.  And time was out of sync with them too.  So the visions bits seemed almost real to me.  And it was a big step up after last week's fiasco.

But before I get to the main storyline though I should comment on the B storyline of Floki's in this first post.  Or as I should call it ...

The Gospel According to Floki.

After he lead his chosen ones to New Jerusale, err, New Valhalla, The Carpen, err, The Builder did instruct them in the new ways.

And Floki the Builder said onto them "You have heard it said an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth  But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you."  (Bibles online I can copy and paste, who knew).

Now his chosen were well blown by such wisdom except the one who was to be The Betrayer.  And he and his did not follow the prophet's words and trouble came upon the land, uh, verily.

So seeing how things had come to pass, the prophet gathered unto him one last time his chosen and tried, yet again forsooth, to get stuff through their block heads that were like onto a bag of rocks.

"A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.  By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another."

But seeing they still had not received his words with understanding, The Carpen, err, The Builder, knew that only deeds would do especially regards The Betrayer and his most stupid of ways. 

So the prophet offered himself up in sacrifice since only the blood of the lamb of Go, err, raven of Odin, would turn their stone hearts and wash away their sins and lead to ... well lead to something minus him.

And an angel on high named Athelstan looked down and marveled.

To be continued next half season ...

Edited by green
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Since this story focused on characters I guess I should too.  First, Team Attackers:

Ivar:  The only Viking that does not have to send his armor out for dry cleaning after this battle, Ivar got to snarl, taunt a Lagertha who was not within sword-swinging range of him and also vision sees skeletons fight each other.  (Good pick-up by notdorothyparker about the skeletons vision showing how he really doesn't see people as real people).  So he had a good day.  And got off lightly too especially when we had the flashback to him holding a knife to Hvitserk's neck.  I dare you to try it with older, half-bro Bjorn.

Harold:  It has been Harold's dream all his life to be king of all Norway and this is the final major battle leading to that dream.  And what was the result?  The most classic of Pyrrhic victories as he loses the only two people in the world he truly loves in doing same.  Heavy stuff with his brother.  At least with Astrid he will never learn the truth and think the best of her and that she was loyal to him 100%.  Also not knowing the baby was not his, that too.  Unless the little boy back home tells him because ... why again was this little kid in the show to see it all and NOT say anything about it?  Oh well another dead branch in Hirst's writing I guess.  Positives:  Well at least Harold can pull out his old trademark line about being unlucky with women again.  And, oh yeah, Norway.

Hvitserk:  Wow did he get more screen time than he should.  And two great fake outs as well as I thought he was dying when he first fell down then when Ubbe "stayed his sword" at the last minute from turning Hvitserk's head into a soccer ball Viking-style.  I am sure there were more than a few viewers cheering both moments only to find themselves disappointed that he lived.  Yeah Hvitserk, you chose the wrong side.  But at least choosing the wrong side saved your life in that if you met Ivar on the battlefield no way would he "stay" his blade.

Astrid:  She gets to cut Harold's hair.  That is about it for positive moments for her.  She offers herself up to Lagertha to kill because it hides that she is caring the child of a rapist?  Okay, but the baby isn't at fault.  And maybe the kid will look enough like her and she can pass it off as Harold's in the end.  This was more about Lagertha's moment that caused her hair to go all gray I guess.  And to cut down on the actors payroll on the show.  Never was into Astrid so well goodbye.

Rollo:  He is back but not for the big battle.  For the mop-up?  For something deeper and more devious?  Why did he send his army?  Why has he returned?  Who cares.  Maybe we will next half season ... or not.

Post getting long, will have to place Team Defenders in a separate one I guess.

Edited by green
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On 1/24/2018 at 6:13 PM, Silverglitter said:

I really wish we knew the time frames here. Apparently, Lagertha and Heahmund have progressed to 'epic love'. lol

His noodle must be powerful! It says so on his sword.

Edited by Paradigm14
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On to Team Defenders.

Lagertha:  Oh Lagertha how you have "settled" that one kiss from Bishop BadBreath makes it okay to die.  Maybe a "vision" of you back at the farm with Ragnar in the day would have worked better?  Just saying.  Well at least there was the touching moment with your Thor necklace we saw you cling to in difficult moments all your life these past five seasons ... oh wait there was no necklace.  Retro writing strikes again. 

Then you kind of have to kill Astrid which was not on your "to do" list for the day.  Bummer.  Enough to turn you gray overnight or within hours at least.  (Okay Mr Hirst, you needed to have aged Lagertha all along, not saved it all up to instant gray here).  And all along Ivar is busy taunting you.  Was not your best day ever I guess.  And all the anvil dropping about dying and you are still around?  Double bummer because heroic battlefield deaths trump becoming a shell of your former self.  Pick yourself up and have one more go at it.

Bishop BadActor:  I don't care.  Quit making Lagertha look like a stupid, silly, giggly school girl and go get lost already.

Bjorn:  Not featured too much other than to say goodbye to the Sami princess (both pre-dead and post-dead) who he would have grown tired of at the first sight of a newer pretty face.  And also he gives a real quick have fun in Valhalla pep talk to a dead Guthrum.  Fights well but only kills red shirt vikings.

Ubbe:  His only real moment is "staying his blade" regards Hvitserk the Wishy-Washy.  Hope that works out for you but more than likely all that action got you was that you will get stuck with the little, annoying pest when Ivar kicks him to the curb and he comes running to big brother for help.  Oh at the end Ubbe did mention they should probably get out of Dodge (Kattegat) before the victors swarm them there.  Ubbe the Practical.

Guthrum:  I was wrong. Thought Guthrum was being set up to go with his step-dad on Med Cruise 3.0.  Instead he gets to go stay with his real dad.  Too bad, I kind of liked him.

Torvi:  Speaking of liking Guthrum, his mom sure does.  Heart-breaking for her to see him die.  Also not to see her run M-Something thru at the end but drop her sword for her kids instead.  But the big plus here is she is still alive as I would have guessed she would have been one of the ones killed in this battle and I like Torvi.  Is it possible she will get to sail away with Ubbe and live happily ever after?  Probably not but I will pretend this until the second half of the season starts and ends my fantasy.

The Sami:   Both Princess Reindeer Balls and Dear Old Dad die and with them the brief guest appearance of the Sami on this show.  Glad to see the princess go but enjoyed the Sami in the two battles doing their best impression of Ewoks.

Halfdan:  Saved him for last because he got the very best scenes in this episode.  And maybe one of the best if not the best death-exits in the show's history.  From the mournful battlesong he sings with his brother in the beginning through his self-realization moment that it is about turning your swords into plowshares he was the person that moved me the most.  A viking that became sort of enlightened at the end.  Who would have guessed that would be Halfdan back in the day?  I will miss the guy big time now.

Meanwhile, back at the Ranch (Kattegat):

M-Something:  This character is all over the map.  First she was the sympathetic slave girl passed around by the Ragarsons.  Then without any real ramp up, more like a switch being clicked on, she became Lady MacBeth overnight.  And she remained so during her visit to The Seer in this episode.  But then she suddenly morphed into a crazy Ophelia-like character walking out into the water.  I was rooting for her to keep walking but no she just collects a piece of wood she thinks is dead Guthrum and scares the hell out of the two younger kids ... again.  But her vision is right.  Guthrum is dead.  Did that somehow decide her to NOT kill the other two kids?  I have no idea what Hirst was going for.  Her last shot in this episode had her looking like a cross between a mad woman and an evil but somewhat confused witch.  I just wished Torvi had run her thru no matter what.  Or that she runs away with Hvitserk and they go off to annoy Floki in Iceland.

The Seer:  This poor guy has gone through years of dealing with every self-centered viking wanting to know if he/she will be the greatest of them all.  I'm glad he finally had it and took it out on annoying M-something and dissed her like anything.  Go, Seer, go!  (And be right that Ubbe will get to be king somewhere else).

Edited by green
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13 minutes ago, green said:

The Sami:   Both Princess Reindeer Balls and Dear Old Dad die and with them the brief guest appearance of the Sami on this show.  Glad to see the princess go but enjoyed the Sami in the two battles doing their best impression of Ewoks.

Sami = Ninja Ewoks

14 minutes ago, green said:

The Seer:  This poor guy has gone through years of dealing with every self-centered viking wanting to know if he/she will be the greatest of them all.  I'm glad he finally had it and took it out on annoying M-something and dissed her like anything.  Go, Seer, go!  (And be right that Ubbe will get to be king somewhere else.)

This.  There was a point in this scene where I had trouble hearing the sound, but, given the Seer's tone of voice, I thoroughly imagined he was saying, "Man, what is with you people? Get the hell out!"

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