Figure Skating

[herbz]

The Skating Lesson seems confident the Shibs are doing both programs in the team now. I find them rather obnoxious, but they are well sourced. 

[MostlyC]

Huh.  I'd have the shibs do their short for the team event so as to save energy.  I am guessing, though, that the USIOC (or whoever is in charge of US Skating) will have the final say.  And it seems like most people out there don't think much of the Team Event.

[herbz]

10 minutes ago, MostlyC said:

Huh.  I'd have the shibs do their short for the team event so as to save energy.  I am guessing, though, that the USIOC (or whoever is in charge of US Skating) will have the final say.  And it seems like most people out there don't think much of the Team Event.

I suspect the ice dancers were last in the pecking order and they decided largely on needing to rest Nathan first and foremost and split the ladies. The Shibs are usually a safe pair of hands and, while H/D are rising, the ones with the greater international rep. It doesn't matter whatever they do really, because unless Canada and the OAR team fall 3 times each they're not getting more than bronze. The team does seem to mean more to the athletes than anyone else, so the fed probably was looking at it in terms of minimising disruption to individual preparation. 

Edited February 4, 2018 by herbz

[annzeepark914]

@herbz:  Thanks for your thoughts on this.

[Moxie Cat]

15 minutes ago, herbz said:

And it seems like most people out there don't think much of the Team Event.

And for good reason. It may be true, but I was appalled to read in that NBC article linked to here (or on the skating thread) that the US is only expected to take bronze after Russia and Canada. Sheesh, then, why even try? Where is the suspense? Yes, Russia has a lot of amazing skaters, but aren't we competitive with Canada? It just said to me, why even watch?

And frankly, the issue with the Russia "team": what an effing farce. Let individual skaters compete, fine, but they are NOT a "team" from a "country" this year, and should not be in the team event. Period.

As far as the team selections, let the Shibs skate both. They are consistent, have more years of international experience (including the last Olympics) and the dance team wearing out or getting injured isn't as much of an issue. Split the ladies and men for their stamina. Sorry, H/D. You guys did well this year but you've been in third place for a long time. Prove yourselves by earning the bronze in dance.

[MaryMitch]

Regarding the PCS: I am a fan but I don't have any experience in the sport; I just like to watch skating and try to watch it whenever I can. The commentators need to spend more time describing what precisely the judges are looking for. They show the jumps over and over (and yes, I don't know a flip from a lutz but I can read it when they show it in the upper left!), but they never talk about what makes a transition or a spin great, how the footwork sequences are scored, and how a particular move connects with the music.

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

And for good reason. It may be true, but I was appalled to read in that NBC article linked to here (or on the skating thread) that the US is only expected to take bronze after Russia and Canada. Sheesh, then, why even try? Where is the suspense? Yes, Russia has a lot of amazing skaters, but aren't we competitive with Canada? It just said to me, why even watch?

Please.  There have been Olympics where prognosticators could predict the TOP 10 dance couples due to the lack of movement in dance standings.  The US has no decent pairs team--our obvious weakness.  Canada has world medalists in THREE of the four disciplines.  We have TWO--and our pairs team isn't even top 5.  The Russians are fairly competitive in all 4 disciplines. 

[galaxygirl76]

6 hours ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

Please.  There have been Olympics where prognosticators could predict the TOP 10 dance couples due to the lack of movement in dance standings. 

 

I remember many moons ago in the nineties, when I was watching figure skating religiously, the commentator would pretty much mention at every big meeting that the only way to move up in the dance event was couples above them retiring/going pro. Everything was essentially set in stone and barring something drastic, like a fall which was rare enough, anyone who watched enough ice dancing would be able to predict the outcome. This was a commentator who herself had been a figure skater so knew the ins and outs. I don't know if it's still like this because I tend to skip the ice dancing.

[herbz]

11 minutes ago, galaxygirl76 said:

 

I remember many moons ago in the nineties, when I was watching figure skating religiously, the commentator would pretty much mention at every big meeting that the only way to move up in the dance event was couples above them retiring/going pro. Everything was essentially set in stone and barring something drastic, like a fall which was rare enough, anyone who watched enough ice dancing would be able to predict the outcome. This was a commentator who herself had been a figure skater so knew the ins and outs. I don't know if it's still like this because I tend to skip the ice dancing.

It's still like this frankly. The Shibutani's PCS were artificially held back for years while Davis/White were around and then saw their domestic marks increase the minute D/W stopped- not because they'd suddenly improved heaps, but because the US now needed a clear new #1 to promote internationally. There were rumblings that a few top couples were vocally unhappy about V/M returning because it was going to push them straight down the pecking order that their absence had allowed them to climb. I believe it. It's pretty rare for someone to really shake things up- V/M did it a decade ago, and P/C in 2015. That's about it. 

[displayname]

39 minutes ago, herbz said:

It's still like this frankly. The Shibutani's PCS were artificially held back for years while Davis/White were around and then saw their domestic marks increase the minute D/W stopped- not because they'd suddenly improved heaps, but because the US now needed a clear new #1 to promote internationally. There were rumblings that a few top couples were vocally unhappy about V/M returning because it was going to push them straight down the pecking order that their absence had allowed them to climb. I believe it. It's pretty rare for someone to really shake things up- V/M did it a decade ago, and P/C in 2015. That's about it. 

That's annoying. I already think Ice Dance can be boring, and then this. I think the Shibsibs are far more fun than any of the other "top" teams.

 

It's really not like Yuna and Mao bursting onto the scene at the age of 16 each and knocking the "seasoned" competitors off the podium, or even Evgenia doing that in 15-16, or Alina right now.

[DawnDavenport]

On 2/1/2018 at 8:23 AM, annzeepark914 said:

Someone needs to speak up for Sale/Pelletier so let it be me (now I'll have that song running through my head all day!)  Even Natalia Mishkutenok thought S/P deserved the gold and she's more of an expert on pairs skating than I.  In a way I'm glad they changed the scoring system but then they've turned so many skaters into counting machines and backloaders.

I'll speak up for them as well. While the whole controversy was completely out of control and S&P really grated, they deserved to win on that night based on the quality of the skating. Going back and watching  both programs, B&S had more than the 1 visible error on the double axel. The triple twist was sloppily landed (when did they ever do it well?) and both throws were precarious.  S&P also had better quality lifts. S&P also had better death quality in their death spirals. Both programs were subpar and had cringe inducing moments: ugh to the "snowball fight" and the stupid harp glissandos added to an otherwise understated Massenet piece. Sikharulidze overdid the facial expressions and with the makeup, looked like he had just graduated with honors from the Angelika Krylova School of Drag Queen Overwrought Dramatic Facial Expressions. The multiple gumby poses were sometimes incongruous with the music as well and screamed more "look what we can do" type moves.

S&P could have won had they stuck with their more difficult Orchid program (Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto No. 2) and not recycle a 3 year old program.

Edited February 5, 2018 by DawnDavenport

[HartofDixie]

The Skating Lesson Olympic Preview

[kayma]

If the Shibs (or any other ice dance team) are skating both programs in the team competition, I think it's a shame. Of the individual entries, the three ice dance teams and Nathan are most deserving of being in the medal race. Since at least two of three ice dance teams will likely not medal, I would have liked to see two get a team medal. I would much rather see the gift medal go to two of the ice dance teams who are all ranked in the top 7 in the world than go to a woman ranked 9, 14, or 43, depending on the second entry.

(If it's the athletes' decision to skate both, I don't blame them for choosing to do so. I think it's poor planning for the team criteria.)

[BelleBrit]

It seems unfair that the nationals champions (H/D) wouldn't get to participate in the team event-if what TSL is reporting is true-but I'm honestly not that surprised.  USFS's priorities are probably still singles, despite ice dance delivering for the US in recent years in a way that ladies and men have not.  The people/teams who have gotten the most press post nationals (Nathan, Adam, Mirai, the Shibs) would be in the team event-not saying that's why they were chosen, but I still think that they see the singles as more marketable than dance, despite ice dance having the best overall medal chances for all teams.  People I know who don't know much about skating/maybe watch singles every four years  still don't get that Ice Dance is a Thing separate from pairs, even after Meryl and Charlie won. Maybe H/D can pull an Adelina and medal in their regular event.  I also think it's possible that the Shibs were granted their request to skate in both, since they medaled in the grand prix final (or that Nathan and Bradie did not want to skate both programs). 

edit: "pull an Adelina" as in, she was national champion that year and did not get to skate in the team event. 

Edited February 5, 2018 by BelleBrit

[displayname]

2 hours ago, BelleBrit said:

pull an Adelina

No, thanks.

2 hours ago, BelleBrit said:

edit: "pull an Adelina" as in, she was national champion that year and did not get to skate in the team event. 

I know, and her "medaling" in the regular event was tragic.

 

(OK, I would've given her bronze, but still).

Edited February 6, 2018 by fan94

[herbz]

43 minutes ago, PoshSprinkles said:

That's not surprising. Tessa and Scott have always reminded me of fifth-year high school seniors that everyone wishes would just graduate and LEAVE already. 

Not everyone can be an Oksana Chusovitna (gymnast) and stick around for 20+ years and still be endearing and beloved. <3 <3 <3

Tbf to them, they were super super young when they broke through, so it seems like they've been around longer than they have because they didn't spend years languishing in juniors or in the lower ranks.  Younger than Meryl and Charlie were, and even now they're 4 years younger than Dubreuil and Lauzon were when they retired. They're really got another quad before they hit fifth year senior stage. And they still had more to do- they'd never won a GPF before 2016, and Tessa has struggled with injuries. Why not have a couple of healthy seasons and leave on your own terms? I'm actually more endeared to them now, as I almost always am with comeback athletes, because you sense they're doing it just because they love it, and I'm very impressed that they're better now than they were.

You see this attitude in gymnastics every time an Olympian comes back as well. Maybe it's the dormant competitive athlete in me, but it's stupid for the others to whine that they've had their time imo. Why shouldn't Aly/Gabby/Simone etc keep at it? Want to be the best, be better than the best, don't wait for them to step aside. And if they're getting beaten up by an oldie, maybe they should look at themselves first ?

Chuso is an absolute marvel. 

Edited February 6, 2018 by herbz

[herbz]

Some omissions here and I'm not entirely convinced of the methodology, but it's interesting that the inadequacies of the judging system are being talked about nonetheless...https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/winter-olympics-2018/think-olympic-figure-skating-judges-are-biased-data-says-they-n844886?icid=today_hp_NBCtopheadlines

Edited February 6, 2018 by herbz

[HartofDixie]

Olympic Team Event Preview - SP/SD

[Vera]

W/P and C/L are both older than V/M. D/W, V/M. C/L. B/S, W/P all entered the senior ranks around the same time ('06 & '07 seasons).

This will be the third Olympics for V/M, C/L & B/S. Paul Poirier was in Vancouver with Vanessa Crone, but he and Piper lost their Sochi spot to Mitch/Islam. Same with Evan Bates, who competed in Vancouver with Emily Samuelson and in Sochi (and now Pyeongchang) with Madison Chock. 

 

On 2/5/2018 at 5:26 AM, herbz said:

There were rumblings that a few top couples were vocally unhappy about V/M returning because it was going to push them straight down the pecking order that their absence had allowed them to climb. 

 

Carol Lane?

[Jeddah]

When do they decide who’s doing the team event? It’s two days away! Surely they must know who’s competing by now. 

[HartofDixie]

46 minutes ago, Jeddah said:

When do they decide who’s doing the team event? It’s two days away! Surely they must know who’s competing by now. 

I think most teams have decided but are keeping it quiet until they need to announce it.  Not sure if they are doing a draw for the SP or if they are going by skaters world rankings.  Since the team event starts Thursday night we should see the skating orders tomorrow. http://www.nbcolympics.com/news/who-will-compete-us-figure-skating-team-event

Per Instagram Nathan, Adam, Shibs, Mirai, K&K, and Bradie are there.  I believe Karen left yesterday.  Not sure of the others.  The team processing is being done in another location and then they will head to Pyeongchang.

I wonder how many will walk in the opening ceremonies as it's going to be a cold night!

http://www.nbcolympics.com/news/chris-knierim-practice-alone-reveals-stitches

A GIF guide to elements in figure skating

[Avaleigh]

On 2/4/2018 at 8:26 PM, DawnDavenport said:

I'll speak up for them as well. While the whole controversy was completely out of control and S&P really grated, they deserved to win on that night based on the quality of the skating. Going back and watching  both programs, B&S had more than the 1 visible error on the double axel. The triple twist was sloppily landed (when did they ever do it well?) and both throws were precarious.  S&P also had better quality lifts. S&P also had better death quality in their death spirals. Both programs were subpar and had cringe inducing moments: ugh to the "snowball fight" and the stupid harp glissandos added to an otherwise understated Massenet piece. Sikharulidze overdid the facial expressions and with the makeup, looked like he had just graduated with honors from the Angelika Krylova School of Drag Queen Overwrought Dramatic Facial Expressions. The multiple gumby poses were sometimes incongruous with the music as well and screamed more "look what we can do" type moves.

S&P could have won had they stuck with their more difficult Orchid program (Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto No. 2) and not recycle a 3 year old program.

Lol, I had to upvote your post for the bit in bold. And I say this as somone who was a Krylova fan and feel Krylova and Ovsyannikov should have won back in 1998. I loved her OTT facial expressions but I get what you're saying about Anton.

Agreed that Sale and Pelletier should have used the Orchid program over that tired and schmaltzy Love Story one. I definitely prefer Berezhnaya and Sikharudlize's programs but admit that they were shaky that day. I think their win not bothering me had more to do with me finding S&P annoying in general as opposed to me thinking that they didn't deliver on the ice when it counted.

Whenever I go back to the topic of people getting robbed during the Olympics, the first place I go is 1994. I thought Torvill and Dean were the best and didn't understand how that bullshit Rock Around the Clock program of Grishuk and Platov's was supposedly far superior or more memorable than Torvill and Dean's Fred and Ginger inspired free program. 

Nancy Kerrigan was penalized for things that weren't happening on the ice. Oksana won with a shaky double axel double toe as her combination jump and people still defend it. She two footed her way through both the short and long programs while Nancy had a clean short, a clean triple/triple combo, and a clean lutz late in the long program. The mind boggles as to why more judges thought Oksana was better that day. 

I preferred Mishkutenok and Dmitriev but can at least understand why the judges ultimately went with G&G. It didn't feel like a slap in the face the way the other results did. 

For 1998, as I already mentioned, I would have easily had Krylova and Ovsyannikov at the top.

For 2002 I feel that Sasha Cohen should have been third or even second. I still find it puzzling that Irina continues to feel that the results were unfair.

For 2006 I would have put Shen and Zhao over Zhang and Zhang.

For 2010 I feel that Mirai was better than Joanie Rochette. 

For 2014 I feel that Yuna Kim won hands down. Adelina's win is still baffling. I wonder where Gracie would have placed had she hit the flip. 

I also liked Elena and Nikita more than I liked Tessa and Scott.

There was little more heartbreaking in this sport than seeing Mao skate such an incredible long program at the Olynpics and knowing that she wouldn't walk away with a medal. 

[selkie]

USA Figure Skating's longstanding tradition of its international teams gathering at the destination rather than flying over together is because of Sabena 548

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabena_Flight_548

 

http://www.espn.com/espn/eticket/story?page=110215/skatingcrash

[Jeddah]

13 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

Lol, I had to upvote your post for the bit in bold. And I say this as somone who was a Krylova fan and feel Krylova and Ovsyannikov should have won back in 1998. I loved her OTT facial expressions but I get what you're saying about Anton.

Agreed that Sale and Pelletier should have used the Orchid program over that tired and schmaltzy Love Story one. I definitely prefer Berezhnaya and Sikharudlize's programs but admit that they were shaky that day. I think their win not bothering me had more to do with me finding S&P annoying in general as opposed to me thinking that they didn't deliver on the ice when it counted.

Whenever I go back to the topic of people getting robbed during the Olympics, the first place I go is 1994. I thought Torvill and Dean were the best and didn't understand how that bullshit Rock Around the Clock program of Grishuk and Platov's was supposedly far superior or more memorable than Torvill and Dean's Fred and Ginger inspired free program. 

Nancy Kerrigan was penalized for things that weren't happening on the ice. Oksana won with a shaky double axel double toe as her combination jump and people still defend it. She two footed her way through both the short and long programs while Nancy had a clean short, a clean triple/triple combo, and a clean lutz late in the long program. The mind boggles as to why more judges thought Oksana was better that day. 

I preferred Mishkutenok and Dmitriev but can at least understand why the judges ultimately went with G&G. It didn't feel like a slap in the face the way the other results did. 

For 1998, as I already mentioned, I would have easily had Krylova and Ovsyannikov at the top.

For 2002 I feel that Sasha Cohen should have been third or even second. I still find it puzzling that Irina continues to feel that the results were unfair.

For 2006 I would have put Shen and Zhao over Zhang and Zhang.

For 2010 I feel that Mirai was better than Joanie Rochette. 

For 2014 I feel that Yuna Kim won hands down. Adelina's win is still baffling. I wonder where Gracie would have placed had she hit the flip. 

I also liked Elena and Nikita more than I liked Tessa and Scott.

There was little more heartbreaking in this sport than seeing Mao skate such an incredible long program at the Olynpics and knowing that she wouldn't walk away with a medal. 

I don’t agree on all of them, but I agree with you on a lot of these. I’ve always felt like a jerk for thinking Mirai should have gotten bronze over Joannie Rochette in 2010, but I thought she was better.

I said earlier I didn’t think Sale/Pelletier deserved gold, and I’ll take it one step further and say I thought Shen and Zhao should have beaten them too. Shen and Zhao’s program was more intricate, and she was so close to landing that quad throw! So incredibly close!

[absnow54]

I'm bummed that Figure Skating will be live during prime time, because I hate how much they bounce around between other events during the prime time coverage (which I get, because there's a much broader audience tuning in.) I like it so much better when it airs uninterrupted on NBCSN with the highlights at night. Is the app or Hulu Live subscription the only way to watch the full events?

[Avaleigh]

I'm not sure what the American team lineup is but is it totally out of the question for American to have a chance at silver? If everyone is clean and they have Nathan skate the short and long and Mirai hits the triple axel in the short with Bradie doing the long are the Canadians really impossible to beat?

I wish the Americans weren't so weak in pairs. It's crazy to me that it's been 30 years since the Americans have medaled in pairs at the Olympics. I'm not sure about World medals because I can't remember whether or not Inoue and Baldwin ever medaled but I want to say it's been about twenty years. Meno and Sand's silver is the only one I remember for sure. 

[herbz]

It's not completely, totally, 100%, never gonna happen out of the question, but the USA would have to be near perfect and also be relying on OAR and Canada to make mistakes, and probably quite big mistakes at that. The Canadians are being very forward about this being a priority and fielding their strongest team- they want gold. The pairs weakness is a lot to overcome, and with Canada having a near guaranteed win in dance and OAR in  Ladies it'll be tough. 

Edited February 6, 2018 by herbz

[Good Queen Jane]

The problem with US pairs is that they don't stay together long enough to really be in a position to medal. It is really hard to match them as teenagers as the man usually is not big enough to do the lifts/throws if they are close in age and the US has an aversion to matching a teenaged girl with a twentysomething man. Jumps are also a problem with US pairs. Usually if a skater is a good jumper, they compete as a single skater and if they are not, dance has become much more attractive.

Edited February 6, 2018 by Good Queen Jane

[Moxie Cat]

2 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

It is really hard to match them as teenagers a

So how do other countries manage to do it? What is the US doing differently? Is it just the age glitch that you mentioned? I'm no expert on pairs (or skating, really! :) but our pairs situation seems odd compared to our relative success in the other three disciplines. You'd think at some point, some coach would realize there is an opening and do something specific to match successful countries' models.

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

Jumps are also a problem with US pairs. Usually if a skater is a good jumper, they compete as a single skater and if they are not, dance has become much more attractive.

Who can blame them?  Look at all the well-known (and filmed) injuries in pairs ...Elena Berezhnaya ... very serious head injury; Randy Gardner, whose partner Tai Babilonia lost her chance when HE got injured ... blades cutting up the partner's leg etc.

[Avaleigh]

21 minutes ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

Who can blame them?  Look at all the well-known (and filmed) injuries in pairs ...Elena Berezhnaya ... very serious head injury; Randy Gardner, whose partner Tai Babilonia lost her chance when HE got injured ... blades cutting up the partner's leg etc.

Yeah, Jessica Dube and Paul Binnebose come to mind.

[scarynikki12]

11 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

Nancy Kerrigan was penalized for things that weren't happening on the ice. Oksana won with a shaky double axel double toe as her combination jump and people still defend it. She two footed her way through both the short and long programs while Nancy had a clean short, a clean triple/triple combo, and a clean lutz late in the long program. The mind boggles as to why more judges thought Oksana was better that day.

I think that the 94 judges were more interested in awarding artistry than difficulty (artistry being a relative term because I thought Oksana's long program was terrible but everyone else loved it).  Fast forward four years and the reverse would be true.  Then fast forward some more and here we are.  Why they can't award the better complete program I'll never understand but they love to focus on one at the expense of the other.  If Oksana had skated clean then I wouldn't be opposed to her win but she had noticeable mistakes in both programs that should have kept her from gold.  I used to think that the judges also felt that awarding an American two Olympics in a row was overkill but they gave Witt back to back golds, later awarded Lipinski and Hughes back to back, and give Russia the pairs gold every damn time so I've since changed my mind.

I am looking forward to skating this games.  Maybe the Skating While Russian advantage won't work?  Nah, they'd have to drop out before that would stop being a thing.

[herbz]

Conflicting reports, but it sounds as if P/C are sitting out the team event after previously giving an interview saying they would be competing. They would only have had to dance the short, France was highly unlikely to qualify through. Must say, I think they're playing right into V/M's hands here. They won't get a chance to get their skates wet before the individual now, and while it's obviously to do with conserving energy it looks a little like they're hiding when they're the ones coming in as GPF champions with a string of broken WRs behind them. I'd have advised them to face the competition and derail the possibility of V/M wresting back some momentum. D/W's performances in the team in Sochi practically guaranteed their individual gold a week before they skated. 

80% they'll still win and this is all pointless conjecture! @rockerskating is the place to go for training reports. Nathan is doing the short and Adam the long as predicted. 

Edited February 7, 2018 by herbz

[Vera]

15 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

The problem with US pairs is that they don't stay together long enough to really be in a position to medal. 

 

Tai Babilonia has spoken about this in an interview. Partnerships are a lot of work and she said that a lot of pairs aren't willing to work at it. The need for instant results means that partners aren't willing to stick it out. 

U.S. Pair legends Tai Babilonia and Randy Gardner sound off on the current pairs scene

Ice Dance does favor a wider set of body types, which allows for greater partnering opportunities I think. 

[HartofDixie]

8 hours ago, herbz said:

Conflicting reports, but it sounds as if P/C are sitting out the team event after previously giving an interview saying they would be competing. They would only have had to dance the short, France was highly unlikely to qualify through. Must say, I think they're playing right into V/M's hands here. They won't get a chance to get their skates wet before the individual now, and while it's obviously to do with conserving energy it looks a little like they're hiding when they're the ones coming in as GPF champions with a string of broken WRs behind them. I'd have advised them to face the competition and derail the possibility of V/M wresting back some momentum. D/W's performances in the team in Sochi practically guaranteed their individual gold a week before they skated. 

80% they'll still win and this is all pointless conjecture! @rockerskating is the place to go for training reports. Nathan is doing the short and Adam the long as predicted. 

I’ve heard the same about P&C. I think they should skate the short to not allow V&M to gain momentum but we’ll see if they go with the other French team.

Jackie’s practice notes

[herbz]

It's been confirmed by the French Fed now- they're not doing it. The reason given was that they're making changes to the programs to get the individual gold and they're staying in Montreal an extra week to avoid distractions from the Olympic environment. Do what you need to do, but I don't think the optics of a team that set an overall world record less than a month ago declaring themselves not ready are ideal, but then I've never politicked anyone to an OGM so what do I know? 

V/M have a chance to steal the limelight for a week now. The judges might not go with it in the end, but they'll know where they stand with their reworked programs at least. 

Edited February 7, 2018 by herbz

[galaxygirl76]

Kind of a weird question but I was watching T&D on youtube and to me their Bolero is still brilliant. Do you all think it could still win gold now 34 years later with all the changes that have happened since?

[herbz]

1 hour ago, galaxygirl76 said:

Kind of a weird question but I was watching T&D on youtube and to me their Bolero is still brilliant. Do you all think it could still win gold now 34 years later with all the changes that have happened since?

That really was such a moment. Impossible to recreate and you'd never want to bastardise it by rechoreographing to get Level 4s on elements. It's just so difficult to compare eras. I can't imagine sticking twizzles into Bolero. I definitely think Christopher Dean, trained under today's code, would still be right up there with Moir in terms of technical ability and partnering skills and Cizeron in terms of presence. He was stunning to watch. 

Edited February 7, 2018 by herbz

[HartofDixie]

[Vera]

2 hours ago, herbz said:

The judges might not go with it in the end, but they'll know where they stand with their reworked programs at least. 

 

This. If P/C have made big changes, then it would be wise to put it in front of the judges one last time before the individual event.

V/M have apparently changed their Carmen lift (the one where she backflips onto his shoulders) to something more 'family-friendly'. If the judges don't take to the new lift, they can go back to the old version. Either way, they'll have the option. 

[herbz]

28 minutes ago, Vera said:

This. If P/C have made big changes, then it would be wise to put it in front of the judges one last time before the individual event.

V/M have apparently changed their Carmen lift (the one where she backflips onto his shoulders) to something more 'family-friendly'. If the judges don't take to the new lift, they can go back to the old version. Either way, they'll have the option. 

Right? I don't buy this narrative that P/C aren't doing the team because they want to unveil big changes in the individual. That makes no sense. Why, for a start, would they even *need* to make major changes so close to the Olympics it stopped them competing- V/M rechoreographed a program in under 3 weeks- when the judges are falling over themselves to give them insane scores for their programs in their current forms? 

They also seemed very enthusiastic about the prospect of the team in a fairly recent interview. No, I suspect this is the French fed and its infamous head judging that P/C would have quite likely been beaten in the short by V/M (pretty notable that the team dances won't be judged by a French or a Russian, who have been going for P/C by greater margins all season than the Canadian judges have been breaking for V/M) and want to prevent a shift in momentum. I feel sorry for P/C if they really did want to have that team experience. 

I'm also very suspicious at this lift change. I highly doubt Tessa and Scott have suddenly decided they don't like the aesthetic- it was marmite and a real talking point when they first did it in Carmen and they've clung to it for 5 years of exhibitions since and got maximum GOE each time they did it in competition. They're very attached to that move. No, I sense shenanigans. They should really make a proper reality show about the backstage goings on of ice dance one day, I'd watch that :D 

Edited February 7, 2018 by herbz

[Perkie]

4 hours ago, herbz said:

they're staying in Montreal an extra week

Wont' that be brutal on their bodies in terms of jet lag and what not?  

[herbz]

15 minutes ago, Perkie said:

Wont' that be brutal on their bodies in terms of jet lag and what not?  

You'd think! But they're 22, perhaps they're immune to such things. 

Edited February 7, 2018 by herbz

[HartofDixie]

3 hours ago, herbz said:

I'm also very suspicious at this lift change. I highly doubt Tessa and Scott have suddenly decided they don't like the aesthetic- it was marmite and a real talking point when they first did it in Carmen and they've clung to it for 5 years of exhibitions since and got maximum GOE each time they did it in competition. They're very attached to that move. No, I sense shenanigans. They should really make a proper reality show about the backstage goings on of ice dance one day, I'd watch that :D 

Tessa Virtue & Scott Moir : Roxanne - DOCUMENTARY

They did have a reality show in the lead up to Sochi.

[Libby96]

NBCSN is airing an hour long documentary called Calgary '88 tomorrow, 7:00 pm ET right before the Olympic coverage starts.  I'm pretty excited about it.  It focuses on the men's and ladies' figure skating competitions.  That was the Olympics that started by skating obsession.

[Vera]

2 hours ago, Perkie said:

Wont' that be brutal on their bodies in terms of jet lag and what not?  

The individual dance comp isn't until the week after next, so arriving next week will give them time to recover.

They did plan on doing the TE and once that was done, travel out to train and get back for the SD, but since France was a really long shot for the TE podium, I guess they decided to shift focus. 

[Moxie Cat]

Appaently Nathan is skating the short in the team event. All the other entrants will be announced on Feb. 10 and 11. Read here (scroll down, not easy to find):

http://www.usfigureskating.org/story?id=91279&type=media

Edited February 8, 2018 by Moxie Cat

[Dots And Stripes]

Thanks @moxiecat! Why wait until 2/10 and 2/11 to announce? Shouldn’t they know already?

Part of me has wondered if they would start Nathan and the Shibs for the short and decide which one to sub out later (for me, subbing women is a given). That route seems to chaotic though and would be rough on the possible subs.  

[healthnut]

On 2/6/2018 at 2:19 PM, Avaleigh said:

I wish the Americans weren't so weak in pairs. It's crazy to me that it's been 30 years since the Americans have medaled in pairs at the Olympics. I'm not sure about World medals because I can't remember whether or not Inoue and Baldwin ever medaled but I want to say it's been about twenty years. Meno and Sand's silver is the only one I remember for sure. 

Ina & Zimmerman eked out a bronze in 2002. No B&S or S&P helped. Inoue & Baldwin were close in 2006, they were 4th, but again missing two Olympic medalists, T&M and S&Z. The last time an American pair team medaled in a non Olympic Year was Meno & Sand in ‘95 and ‘96. Sad indeed. 

[HartofDixie]

On 2/6/2018 at 12:02 PM, HartofDixie said:

Olympic Team Event Preview - SP/SD

Olympic team Event preview part 2