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Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

ArctisTor

By ArctisTor
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apinknightmare
apinknightmare

I mean, I don't want her in a suit so it's not the "never" in this instance that bothers me, but Marc saying that Felicity specifically would make the notion of superheroics "silly." Why? In this show

Carrie Ann
Carrie Ann

And then someone tells him that what he did was okay because of reasons, or that he can't keep feeling guilty, he just has to move forward. Like, no, just...go ahead and feel really guilty for awhile?

SleepDeprived
SleepDeprived

Hey, now... Listen. The practice of proper etiquette during an impromptu wedding officiated by your best friend in a park, right after the funeral of a beloved colleague, is of the utmost importance,

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Chaser

Chaser

14 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

The pic captions refer to Wentworth as Leo -- X/Citizen Cold and Katie as Siren -- X. 

 

So these are Earth X versions?

I thought EX Leo was good?

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Starfish35

Starfish35

Just now, way2interested said:

Possibly, I guess. Although that would make even less sense, since didn't E-X Lance say that his daughters were killed?

I don't remember anything ever being said about Laurel, but Quentin-X said that he killed Sara-X for being bisexual.  Great dad there.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Citizen Cold and Black Siren Come to ‘The Flash’ in “Fury Rogue” Photos
By JENNA ANDERSON - April 19, 2018
http://comicbook.com/dc/2018/04/19/the-flash-season-4-episode-19-fury-rogue-citizen-cold-black-sire/

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But as these photos show, Citizen Cold won't be the only Earth-X doppelganger making an appearance in this episode. Arrow's Katie Cassidy can be seen throughout the episode's photos, playing what appears to be the Earth-X version of Laurel Lance/Black Siren.
*  *  *
Fans are expecting Siren to play a big role in tonight's episode of Arrow, which will see her and Diaz trying to tighten their hold on Star City. Depending on how that plays out, the appearance of "Siren-X" on The Flash could be an interesting mirror, especially with Siren's redemption currently being a topic of discussion.

Edited by tv echo
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

2 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Why do I her the feeling that the description is wrong and its E2 Siren? If it is X-Siren at least give her an altered suit. 

Could be - even if she's not on for long they're usually pretty good about making other earth costumes somewhat different. It's weird that nothing is different about her costume at all.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

26 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

Wentworth is there?  I didn't click through to look at the rest of the pics. 

Huh.  I thought he said he was done.  Guess not quite.

In Wentworth's goodbye message to the Arrowverse he said he was filming for Legends and more episode of the Flash.

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Despite the length of this quote, the article itself is much, much longer...

FANDOM ENTITLEMENT: WHO OWNS THE STORY?
Posted on April 19, 2018 By Jade
http://fangirlish.com/fandom-entitlement-who-owns-the-story/

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Fandom Gatekeeping: You Shall Not Pass!

Everyone’s heard about fandom gatekeepers. Many have faced them. You aren’t a “real” fan if you weren’t involved in fandom from the beginning. Or you aren’t a “real” fan if you don’t know the name of the key grip’s sister’s dog’s veterinarian. Maybe you aren’t a real fan if you don’t like a certain character. Or if you do. If you like a certain episode. A certain arc. A certain moment. A certain line.
*  *  *
And, even more recently, gatekeeping has become prevalent even within fandoms. Fans of Olicity on Arrow and Westallen on The Flash seem to frequently be at odds. If you like one, you cannot be a true fan of the other. Sometimes fans of Karamel on Supergirl get in on the action, and – somewhat recently – I’ve seen various fandoms try to drag fans of certain Black Lightning characters or ships into the mix.
*  *  *
It seems fandom is subscribing to the Highlander edict: There can be only one! These are three different ships on three different shows – shows that may exist in the same universe (and occasionally cross over) but ultimately have little impact on each other. If Olicity were to get divorced tomorrow – which they won’t – it wouldn’t be so Oliver could date Kara. Nor would it be because Westallen exists on another show.

But since the Arrowverse shows do exist in the same universe, I suppose it isn’t entirely surprising that there should be rivalry that leads to gatekeeping between them. With the crossovers, the shipping lines do occasionally intersect, as they did with the recent double wedding. However, there have been increasing online rivalries – or even anticipated rivalries – between fandoms on entirely different shows. While I do not watch the shows or follow the ships, I have seen fans of SwanQueen on Once Upon a Time and fans of Malec on Shadowhunters in similar rivalries. And, of course, it doesn’t just come down to a matter of debate about which show or ship is better. If you like one, fandom gatekeepers simply refuse to accept that you might also like the other. (Or, if you don’t like it, it cannot simply be because of your preferences on writing tropes and character development arcs. As with Marvel v. DC, it is assumed that your criticisms are the ravings of a rivaling property fanboy.)

“Love the thing I love in exactly the same way I love it, or you aren’t a real fan” is the mantra of these fandom gatekeepers. One would think the size of these Internet fandoms today would make gatekeepers easier to avoid – or at least ignore. Instead, it too often seems that the Internet has simply given those with such predilections even greater opportunity to define what is and is not acceptable for a “true fan.”

Fandom vs Writers: I Love, Therefore I Own

But perhaps the most prevalent form of fandom entitlement comes when fans think that their appreciation for a thing means that they own the thing. If you’ve never come across that sentiment before, then let me introduce you to the Internet.
*  *  *
More, as I sighed my way through the movies, I remembered that the very fact that Hollywood reboots things so often means that I will one day get another iteration of it that I will love. Absolutely nothing lasts forever – certainly not in Hollywood. And every time they inevitably reboot a franchise, there will be cries that They have ruined this forever and ever and how dare they???? 

Fandom entitlement means watching something nobody is forcing you to watch – something that is often an attempt to get a younger generation to love the property as much as you do – and pretending that you have not only been forced to watch it, but that those who put it on are intentionally doing it just to destroy your happy memories of it. When the reality is that 1) not all reboots, sequels, and adaptations are bad, and 2) nobody is forcing you to watch.
*  *  *
My first experience with this kind of entitlement – though almost certainly not the first recorded example of it – was in the Smallville fandom. As the show went on and characters left the show, their fans announced that the series should just get cancelled rather than exist without them. When Lana left the show and it was clear Clark wouldn’t spend the remaining years pining over her, Clana fans expressed outrage that it hadn’t just been taken off the air. They were owed a certain story, and if that wasn’t the story they were going to get, then the show needed to end.
*  *  *
Similarly, Chlark (and Chlois) fans were emphatic that they deserved the ending they wanted. After all, they’d been watching the show for years. Chloe had always stood by Clark’s side and been his friend and confidante. She was entitled to her hero at the end, and they were owed the ending they had rooted for all along.

While it may have been my first experience with this mentality, it has been far from my last. I’ve seen it in various factions of the Supernatural fandom. Harry Potter. Once Upon a Time. Vampire Diaries. And, of course, The Flash, Supergirl, and Arrow.
*  *  *
But the properties don’t belong to me. So when they write a story that is insulting, offensive, bad, or that I simply don’t enjoy, I stop buying it. I stop watching it. I stop reading it. And when enough people do that? They reboot – as they have a hundred times before and will a hundred times again. They course correct. And maybe – maybe – I like the new story, and they start getting my money again.
*  *  *
So which fans deserved the ending they wanted? If we go by sheer passion alone…all of them. But not every fandom could get their ending, and The Powers that Be told the story they wanted to tell.
*  *  *
The same could be said of the television shows today. Arrow has fans that want the story to end with Laurel Lance in her iconic role as Black Canary (and possibly by Oliver’s side, though I’ve seen far more that are less invested in the romance than her iconic destiny). There are those who want Laurel Lance off the show completely. There are those who want Oliver and Felicity to ride off into the sunset together and those who don’t care where Felicity goes as long as it’s somewhere far away.

In Supergirl, there are those who feel they are entitled to their endgame between Kara and Mon-El. Just as there are those who would rather chew off their own arms than watch another minute of that couple together. Or apart and wishing they were together. Or together and wondering if they should be apart.

In The Flash fandom, there are fans who think they’ve earned a love story between Barry and Caitlin because they’ve wanted it since the beginning. Or because they simply want it a lot. Or even because it’s the kind of story that shows often tell.
*  *  *
Also, to be fair, there are probably Westallen fans who think they are owed their iconic couple because of their dedication and passion – or longevity. Or because it’s an important part of the comics and they want that to be respected.

But are any of the above fandoms entitled to their story? And if so, who deserves it? And why? Because they’ve watched since the beginning? If all competing fandom factions have, that’s hardly a persuasive argument. Because they want it as much as they do? Every other fan taking the time and energy to post online about it is just as passionate.

Frankly, even as a Westallen fan myself, I don’t know that I would even say we are entitled to their ending because we’re shippers, or on the basis of being fans. I advocate for story-lines on The Flash because I want to see the characters and relationships that are so important in the comics. I want to see them respected. And, yes, I think that Iris West on the show is an important role model for so many who watch, and if the CW is going to applaud itself for having broken barriers in casting an African American woman in such an important role, then they must also accept the responsibility that comes with it. Part of that responsibility is showing the actress and the character the respect of continuing to recognize them as important. Of telling the story they would have told if another (white) actress were in the role.

Edited by tv echo
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GHScorpiosRule

GHScorpiosRule

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

The Flash (The CW)
Airs: Tuesday, May 22 at 8/7c
We have some bad news for the fans who've been on pins and needles waiting to find out the identity of the mystery girl who's been popping up in Jitters every now and then on The Flash. TV Guide has learned that the reveal of who Jessica Parker Kennedy is playing will apparently be a season-ending storyline. Looks like you still have time to come up with theories!

I thought it was pretty obvious that

she's Dawn, Barry and Iris' daughter.

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Sakura12

Sakura12

Didn't they say the fans were going to be surprised by the identity of the woman? Maybe she'a actually Don. Of course they could just think their audience is stupid and wouldn't guess who she is. 

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ruby24

ruby24

No, they hedged and said people hadn't figured out exactly what her deal is. Well, yeah, there's been no hints of anything, she's only shown up randomly in cameos. I'm pretty sure she's who we think, but if this is only setup for Season 5, I can't believe they started it so early in the season. 

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TwistedandBored

TwistedandBored

36 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

No, they hedged and said people hadn't figured out exactly what her deal is. Well, yeah, there's been no hints of anything, she's only shown up randomly in cameos. I'm pretty sure she's who we think, but if this is only setup for Season 5, I can't believe they started it so early in the season. 

Yeah. If they wanted to do the plot in season 5 then they showed her way early in the season. She should have shown this past episode if they wanted Jessica in season 5. 

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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

(edited)
Quote

The same could be said of the television shows today. Arrow has fans that want the story to end with Laurel Lance in her iconic role as Black Canary (and possibly by Oliver’s side, though I’ve seen far more that are less invested in the romance than her iconic destiny).

 

See what I always see is people couching their desires as wanting to see her iconic destiny but once you dig deeper, their professed comic payoff just happens to be BC hand and hand with GA as well as any action stuff.  They are totally invested in the romantic outcome. 

 

And why do the people that claim they just

Quote

want to see the characters and relationships that are so important in the comics.

think that because it was that way in some other medium (like any of the other things that get rebooted that she was talking about) that they are any different than someone watching the show as it unfolds wanting to see the characters and relationships that are so important to the existing show?   

Edited by BkWurm1
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Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

TVLine also posting about the Flash pics....

The Flash Photos: Citizen Cold Returns as Siren-X Makes Her Debut

Quote

It seems Wentworth Miller is not as done with the Arrowverse as he led us to believe. The franchise vet returns to The Flash in next Tuesday’s episode (The CW, 8/7c) as Leo-X aka Citizen Cold, whom viewers first met during last year’s “Crisis on Earth-X” crossover.

In newly released photos from “Fury Rogue,” Leo teams with Barry after the speedster calls upon him to help transport a dangerous meta. But the Earth-X resident isn’t the only one who’s traveled over: Siren-X (Arrow‘s Katie Cassidy) is introduced in the episode. Sporting a gun and a threatening stare, this version of the blonde baddie appears to have taken Joe and Caitlin captive.

As for the other man in the preview, that would be Neil Borman/Fallout (Alexander McDonald), who emits toxic levels of radioactivity from his body (per DC Comics canon).

13 episode photos have been added to TVLine's Flash Season 4 Gallery.

Edited by Starfish35
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Starfish35

Starfish35

CW Live+7 Ratings for the week of April 2 (Week 28).  Source

  • Supernatural 0.84, 2.411M
  • Black Lightning 0.82, 2.327M
  • Legends of Tomorrow 0.73, 2.036M
  • Arrow 0.62, 1.742M
  • Jane the Virgin 0.50, 1.128M
  • Life Sentence 0.26, 0.692M

Dynasty not reported.

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scarynikki12

scarynikki12

@tennisgurl you were right. Gotham was awesome tonight. The perfect palate cleanser after that...THING that was tonight’s Arrow. 

I love Siddig as Ra’s so much. The man is pitch perfect in the role, whether he’s playing Zombie Ra’s, Calm and Reasonable Ra’s, or Eager For The Cleansing Fire Ra’s. Fire reflecting in eyes is one of those camera techniques that never stops being awesome and it was particularly effective for Ra’s vision of the future. 

Bruce showing off the future Batmobile to impress Selina was cute. I like that they still do tiny teenage moments with them. 

Alfred and Tabby teaming up was one of those Never Knew I Always Wanted pairings. I love it when that happens. More of that please! 

Gotham has brought a lot of awesome and impressive things over the years but I think their greatest accomplishment was taking Bland and Boring Love Interest Barbara and turning her into Unhinged and More Interesting As A Result Barbara. They saw that the former wasn’t working and so they changed the formula. Barbara not wanting to give up the power but choosing to do so to save Tabby was a nice conclusion to this arc. Plus she was rewarded with an army! 

Normally I’d be lamenting the two weeks we have to wait for the home stretch but I wouldn’t be able to watch next week anyway since it’s Avengers night so I’m cool with it. 

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Delphi

Delphi

@tv echo Random thanks for all your work again.  Browsing the thread after work right now and I realized how fucking lazy I've become when it comes to searching for these things myself.   I visit Instagram and come get everything else from you. 

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tv echo

tv echo

Ask Ausiello: Spoilers on Grey's, Good Doctor, Walking Dead, Blindspot, Elementary, Once Upon a Time and More
By Michael Ausiello / April 19 2018, 1:44 PM PDT
http://tvline.com/2018/04/19/greys-anatomy-meredith-nick-season-14-spoilers/

Quote

Question: Big fan of Legends of Tomorrow Season 3. Anything to share yet about next season? –Leo
Ausiello: If you love the Waverider’s “found family,” brace yourself for some arguments at the proverbial dinner table. “I think we’re ready to maybe have some real betrayal within the ranks of the Legends,” says Phil Klemmer, who next season will serve as sole showrunner. “Things have gotten really tranquil, so next season I do want the Legends to sort of turn against their own. And I don’t want these to be cosmetic plot shifts, I want them to have consequences that will be lasting and that will affect the DNA of the show.”

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

3 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Things have gotten really tranquil, so next season I do want the Legends to sort of turn against their own.

Hopefully this turns out better than Civil Bore, but a monkey could sit down at a typewriter and come up with something that makes more sense than that, so. 

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Sakura12

Sakura12

I don't know why they think we didn't have betrayal in the ranks of the Legends. Mick betrayed them in season 1 and 2, Rip turned evil and murdered Sara in season 2. Zari spent half this season doing whatever she wanted. And they even had Damian Darhk join the team for 2 episodes this season. So the Legends are used to working with betrayers. 

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Velocity23

Velocity23

19 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I like it. Though he is one lucky character! Two posters in 1 season, with the rumors that he may be leaving the series...I can't believe that they'd really get rid of him.

Didnt they do similar with Colton in s3? 

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

4 minutes ago, Velocity23 said:

Didnt they do similar with Colton in s3? 

Yeah though his was part of a larger promotional piece (Superhero Fight Club) and it was Coltons decision to leave which I doubt Chris would want to leave if it is true they are writing the character out after this season.

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Velocity23

Velocity23

1 minute ago, Primal Slayer said:

Yeah though his was part of a larger promotional piece (Superhero Fight Club) and it was Coltons decision to leave which I doubt Chris would want to leave if it is true they are writing the character out after this season.

Do we know if he wants to stay? Because his role was reduced from previous season and there are other opportunities out there for him. 

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Oreo2234

Oreo2234

There are rumours from someone who has spoiled stuff before that Mon-el,Winn, and J'onn are all being written out at the end of the season. Though they did say they don't know if they are truly leaving the show or will return next season.

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Primal Slayer

Primal Slayer

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

I'd be surprised if all three are gone for good.  There's no one to really replace Winn on tech, and the show needs J'onn's superpower and shape shifting ability.

Do they really need J'onns powers? They barely use them and if they do its just o protect Karas identity. 

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Lady Calypso

Lady Calypso

6 hours ago, Oreo2234 said:

There are rumours from someone who has spoiled stuff before that Mon-el,Winn, and J'onn are all being written out at the end of the season. Though they did say they don't know if they are truly leaving the show or will return next season.

I saw that (and the person even included Sam and Ruby) and I really have a hard time believing it. The only way I see this happening is if the actors want to leave. They're already setting Mon-El up to be sticking around next season, though they've also set it up where he might leave with Imra if they work things out and if Kara rejects Mon-El. I can't see Winn being written off unless Jeremy suddenly has a super busy Broadway schedule that won't allow him to go back and forth. And J'onn, even with his powers being limited with the show's budget, is still important to the series so I could see him leaving if David asked to be written out, or if they truly have no direction to go and he leaves with his father at the end of the season. But yeah, all three? No way; they'd have to bring on at least two new (possibly male) characters, especially one to fulfill the tech part of the show and one to be the leader of the DEO, as they do have very important roles to fill. That would be a massive mistake on the show's end. That's literally upheaving half of the main cast, and they don't have anyone right now to really replace them except maybe Brainy (I don't see Imra sticking around). 

Now, what they might do is have a somewhat cliffhanger where those three characters, in particular, are written in a way where they could depart the show. J'onn could be in talks of leaving with his father, Mon-El could be deciding to go back to his new time, and Winn...well, Winn's a little harder to pinpoint an exit for him that's not a life or death situation. 

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shantown

shantown

18 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

No way; they'd have to bring on at least two new (possibly male) characters, especially one to fulfill the tech part of the show and one to be the leader of the DEO, as they do have very important roles to fill.

Lucy Lane comes back to head the DEO, Vasquez steps up as the Tech whiz. </wishful thinking>

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

If you love superhero theme music, here's a new music album that was released last month (includes both movies and tv shows) - you can listen to samples at either of the two links below...

The Definitive Superhero Themes Collection
London Music Works & The City of Prague Philharmonic Orchestra
March 16, 2018
https://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Superhero-Themes-Collection/dp/B07B9KPJ21/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1524417701&sr=8-1&keywords=the+definitive+superhero+themes+collection&dpID=61VdXZ-v7sL&preST=_SX342_QL70_&dpSrc=srch
or https://www.soundtrack.net/album/the-definitive-superhero-themes-collection/

Quote

Disc 1
*  *  *
6.    Credits Suite from “Agent Carter” (Christopher Lennertz)
7.    Suite from “Legends of Tomorrow” (Blake Neely)     
8.    Theme from Supergirl from “Supergirl” – Blake Neely)
*  *  *
10.    Theme from “Daredevil” (John Paesano, Braden Kimball)
11.    Theme from “The Flash” (Blake Neely)     
12.    MARVEL'S Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D. (Bear McCreary)
*  *  *
16.    Theme from “Arrow” (Blake Neely)    

Edited by tv echo
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