Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[slayer2]

Sara!!!!!!! I'm so happy. Black Canary, White Canary, finally something goes right on my television! Thanks god!

[KirkB]

Another reason I don't think Supergirl belongs in the same 'universe' as Arrow and Flash: Season 1, an earthquake hits Starling, hundreds die. Season 2, a massive army of superpowered people attacks Starling, it's on the news, massive property damage and lots of people die. Season 3, Brick takes over the city for an extended period of time, it's all over the news. And at no point during any of this do Superman or Kara think "Hmmm...maybe I should help out?" Conveniently, Superman happens to be off planet each time? At least Flash had the excuse of not existing for the first two. Why he didn't show up to take out Brick in 5 seconds or so is anybody's guess. Really, that's the one fault of a connected universe like this. You can't expect the other superheroes to show up all the time, people need to deal with their stuff on their own shows, but with the really big, flashy stuff some of the audience is at least going to be wondering about it.

[foreverevolving]

Another reason I don't think Supergirl belongs in the same 'universe' as Arrow and Flash: Season 1, an earthquake hits Starling, hundreds die. Season 2, a massive army of superpowered people attacks Starling, it's on the news, massive property damage and lots of people die. Season 3, Brick takes over the city for an extended period of time, it's all over the news. And at no point during any of this do Superman or Kara think "Hmmm...maybe I should help out?" Conveniently, Superman happens to be off planet each time? At least Flash had the excuse of not existing for the first two. Why he didn't show up to take out Brick in 5 seconds or so is anybody's guess. Really, that's the one fault of a connected universe like this. You can't expect the other superheroes to show up all the time, people need to deal with their stuff on their own shows, but with the really big, flashy stuff some of the audience is at least going to be wondering about it.

 

shit happens in real life too, you don't always see other nations/states send their national guards or whatever to help out.

Also, I don't think Barry was even aware Oliver was supposedly dead. also you can't always call your superpower friends to come help out, if you do.. what sort of a hero are you than?

Oliver job is to save SC, Barry is to save CC, occasionally they may help if their help is requested.

Edited May 16, 2015 by foreverevolving

[FurryFury]

shit happens in real life too, you don't always see other nations/states sent send their national guards or whatever to help out.

 

If it took them 1 second, why wouldn't they, if they are allies? 

[Delphi]

Batman rarely has Superman's help. He doesn't want it. Gotham is his town and he wants other heroes to stay out of it. I don't find it hard to believe that other vigilantes feel the same way.

[KirkB]

Barry wouldn't have to know Oliver was kind of dead. What Brick was doing was all over the news, for days. He could have run to Starling, knocked out or tied up everyone involved and gone home before Felicity and the others had a chance to finish their plans. 

 

And you're right, big nations don't always help one another when shit goes down, but that's because they're big and that takes time. Superman and Flash both don't have to deal with meetings and committees and rules, they can just go.

 

Oliver has to have the idea of asking for help beaten into him. I get that. Batman flat out refused to let anyone help him. Barry, at least, is constantly referencing Oliver, and has asked for help from him and from Lyla and Ronnie. 

 

I'm not saying Flash and Arrow should be on each other's shows all the time. Barry being the solution to every problem would get pretty boring pretty quick. They need to be their own heroes, obviously. I'm just saying when you set up a world where you're dealing with a relatively minor threat like Captain Boomerang and Caitlin can bring Barry running with a phone call it's odd when there is an earthquake or another super powered villain invasion and Superman is apparently taking a nap. 

Edited May 16, 2015 by KirkB

[Danny Franks]

I'm not saying Flash and Arrow should be on each other's shows all the time. Barry being the solution to every problem would get pretty boring pretty quick. They need to be their own heroes, obviously. I'm just saying when you set up a world where you're dealing with a relatively minor threat like Captain Boomerang and Caitlin can bring Barry running with a phone call it's odd when there is an earthquake or another super powered villain invasion and Superman is apparently taking a nap. 

 

But then in the season finale of Arrow, they have Barry show up and take out all the assassins in Nanda Parbat in seconds, and free Oliver's pals. They can't have it both ways. Either Barry is a narrative breaking deus ex machina or he's not. He can't just be one when the writers are stuck and need a quick and easy way out of a plotting cul de sac.

 

Show him taking out all the assassins, and it simply raises the question (as was raised several times through the season) of why they didn't just get Barry to zip over, tie up Ra's and then they could transport him to the island prison. Job done. No need for Oliver to die about five times, and to keep coming up with noble, self-sacrificing plans to defeat Ra's, alienate his friends and get his hair cut.

 

It seems to be easier on his own show, because for some reason there, the main problem for him to overcome is that he always has to go faster. 'Barry this guy's fast, you need to go faster', 'Barry, you need to go faster to be able to hurt this guy when you hit him', 'Barry, you need to go faster to find these bombs and disarm them', 'Barry, you need to go...' Faster. Yeah. I got it. Thanks.

[KirkB]

But then in the season finale of Arrow, they have Barry show up and take out all the assassins in Nanda Parbat in seconds, and free Oliver's pals. They can't have it both ways. Either Barry is a narrative breaking deus ex machina or he's not. He can't just be one when the writers are stuck and need a quick and easy way out of a plotting cul de sac.

 

 

I think that's part of the problem, actually. Barry, by his very nature, IS a narrative breaking deus ex machina. There's no way around that. The two main reasons he doesn't show up every time he might be needed on Arrow is a) Oliver is a stubborn ass who refuses to ask for help and b) His own show keeps him a little too busy using his speed there. He COULD be darting back and forth between Central and Starling on a regular basis, solving as many problems as possible, but for the sake of the narrative and our sanity we kind of have to ignore that.

[foreverevolving]

I think that's part of the problem, actually. Barry, by his very nature, IS a narrative breaking deus ex machina. There's no way around that. The two main reasons he doesn't show up every time he might be needed on Arrow is a) Oliver is a stubborn ass who refuses to ask for help and b) His own show keeps him a little too busy using his speed there. He COULD be darting back and forth between Central and Starling on a regular basis, solving as many problems as possible, but for the sake of the narrative and our sanity we kind of have to ignore that.

I would argue in favor of his sanity too. poor guy, has a day job and a night job... he doesn't need a third one in the form of SC.

[Velocity23]

New supercouple ...

[BkWurm1]

New supercouple ...

I could get behind that.  What's the context of the picture? 

[jaytee1812]

Its the photoshoot for the Variety interview with Greg Berlanti.

[MarkHB]

I don't know about shipping, but when do they race?

[wonderwall]

Soooo... I hear in tonights episode they

killed off Eddie like they did with Tommy in season 1

... I'm so glad I quit this show. Eddie was one of the few bright spots of the series tbh. Also saw a few pictures of Caitlin's

wig

looks a lot like Laurel's and I can't stand it. 

 

Say what you will about Arrow, but at least Arrow doesn't borrow storylines from the same universe. 

[quarks]

My main question from tonight's episode of Flash as it connects to Arrow: can we headcanon that the Palmer Technologies stuff and tonight's episode happened at least a few days after the end of Arrow - or that Felicity very uncharacteristically left tablets and computers behind?

[MarkHB]

My main question from tonight's episode of Flash as it connects to Arrow: can we headcanon that the Palmer Technologies stuff and tonight's episode happened at least a few days after the end of Arrow - or that Felicity very uncharacteristically left tablets and computers behind?

I really don't understand what you mean. I didn't hear any Felicity references tonight.

[dtissagirl]

My main question from tonight's episode of Flash as it connects to Arrow: can we headcanon that the Palmer Technologies stuff and tonight's episode happened at least a few days after the end of Arrow - or that Felicity very uncharacteristically left tablets and computers behind?

Oh, she hasn't looked at a screen in DAYS. First it was Oliver's 30th birthday and then they went from there. :)

[Starfish35]

I feel like there's some joke just flying straight over my head here. *confused*

[quarks]

I really don't understand what you mean. I didn't hear any Felicity references tonight.

 

There weren't any. I'm just hoping that Felicity and Oliver got at least a few days of happy driving in the sunlight before they heard that a) the top floors of Palmer Technologies blew up, and b) a black hole appeared over Central City. I can't imagine that Oliver would care that much about Ray, but last we heard on Arrow his family still owns significant stock in that company even if the board understandably didn't want Oliver running it, Felicity would care about Ray, and both of them would care that Central City almost or did go boom.

 

Of course if Barry runs very very very fast and ends the entire cliffhanger, the second point of this is moot. 

[MarkHB]

OK, thanks... now I get it.

[nksarmi]

Ok I really want to know if the actor who played eddie is coming back because his death kind of fks everything up.

If eddie dies and eobord is never born, then this flash is never made and that does impact arrow. I kind of need rip hunter to show up midway through the last flash episode and tell them not to let well out of that cage.

Oh and how does having a cliffhanger on flash work with the fall timeline on both shows?

[MarkHB]

From what I understand,

the actor who played Eddie is done on the show, at least as a regular player.  Tom Cavanaugh, however, will be coming back next season, so maybe he will be pure Wells again

.

[FurryFury]

They'll probably resolve the cliffhanger in the premiere and then do a time jump. And Arrow will air the next day or maybe a week later.

[BkWurm1]

If eddie dies and eobord is never born, then this flash is never made and that does impact arrow. I kind of need rip hunter to show up midway through the last flash episode and tell them not to let well out of that cage.

Oh and how does having a cliffhanger on flash work with the fall timeline on both shows?

 

 

It's gets pretty tricky since by the same logic, if Eobard was never born, then Barry's mom never died and Barry would never have gone back in time to try to save her thus Barry couldn't have been fighting with Wells and Eddie would have had no reason to kill himself so then Eobard would still be born and come back to kill Barry's mom and thus create The Flash who then fights with the Reverse Flash causing Eddie to kill himself to save Barry which means that Eobard was never born thus Barry's mom never died so he never went back to save her thus Eddie had no reason to kill himself to infinity and beyond!    

 

I think the explanation will somehow include a new reality going forward that still preserves the timeline that led to that moment. Let's credit Cisco and be done. 

Edited May 21, 2015 by BkWurm1

[wingster55]

Soooo... I hear in tonights episode they

killed off Eddie like they did with Tommy in season 1

... I'm so glad I quit this show. Eddie was one of the few bright spots of the series tbh. Also saw a few pictures of Caitlin's

wig

looks a lot like Laurel's and I can't stand it. 

 

Say what you will about Arrow, but at least Arrow doesn't borrow storylines from the same universe. 

Once you observe it a bit more closely it's different. Tommy didn't go in thinking he would die, Eddie friggin shot himself. Tommy saved the girl who he broke up with, Eddie saved Barry and everyone else. Tommy dying was THE cliff hanger, Flash ended on a giant wormhole. 

I liked Eddie...but he didn't really do much this season til the last batch of episodes. 

[wonderwall]

Once you observe it a bit more closely it's different. Tommy didn't go in thinking he would die, Eddie friggin shot himself. Tommy saved the girl who he broke up with, Eddie saved Barry and everyone else. Tommy dying was THE cliff hanger, Flash ended on a giant wormhole. 

I liked Eddie...but he didn't really do much this season til the last batch of episodes. 

I found this post somewhere. I'd say there were a lot of similarities between the two storylines. Sure the manner of which they died wasn't the same, but the storylines are eerily similar:

Arrow:Tommy and Laurel grow closer after Oliver’s ‘death’ and started an actual relationship after Oliver’s return

Flash:Iris and Eddie grow closer while Barry’s in a coma, and start a relationship

Arrow:Oliver's still in love with Laurel

Flash:Barry's still in love with Iris

Arrow:Laurel’s father is a police officer who isn’t pleased with the relationship at first

Flash:Iris's father is a police detective who isn’t pleased with the relationship at first

Arrow:Tommy's the comic relief.

Flash:Eddie's the comic relief.

Arrow:Tommy's 'billionaire playboy'

Flash:Eddie's 'detective prettyboy'

Arrow:Tommy thinks low of himself

Flash:Eddie thinks low of himself

Arrow:Tommy break up with Laurel because of Oliver

Flash:Eddie break up with Iris because of Barry

Arrow:Tommy's father is a psychopath

Flash:Eddie's descendant is psychopath

Arrow:Tommy sacrifice himself to save Laurel’s life

Flash:Eddie sacrifice himself to save Iris's (and everyone’s) life

 

Edited May 21, 2015 by wonderwall

[wingster55]

Eddie's the comic relief? I disagree...that was always Cisco. 

Tommy was but that kinda shifted to Felicity. 

Joe liked Eddie...Quentin never liked Tommy.

Eddie got over himself and got back together with Iris.

Iris is better than Laurel so won't hit the bottle  

[GreatAtBoats]

I didn't realize not having addiction issues makes you a better person than someone who does.

[wonderwall]

Eddie's the comic relief? I disagree...that was always Cisco. 

Tommy was but that kinda shifted to Felicity. 

Joe liked Eddie...Quentin never liked Tommy.

Eddie got over himself and got back together with Iris.

Iris is better than Laurel so won't hit the bottle  

 

So neither Eddie nor Tommy were comic relief? Still sort of proves the point :p They were both good men who made their counterparts happy. 

Joe liked Eddie, but he never approved of his relationship with Iris just like Quentin never approved. It's not about liking the person, but about approving the relationship. 

For about half an episode? (I adored their screw the future moment though)

This list wasn't a comparison between characters, it was a comparison between storylines which are really really similar. 

 

I didn't realize not having addiction issues makes you a better person than someone who does.

I think wingster55 meant that Iris is mentally stronger than Laurel in that regard? Like maybe she doesn't have the genetic predisposition? IDK Can't speak for him though. 

Edited May 21, 2015 by wonderwall

[tv echo]

The Best — and Worst — Trends of the 2014-15 TV Season
By Pilot Viruet on May 20, 2015 3:06pm
http://flavorwire.com/519645/the-best-and-worst-trends-of-the-2014-15-tv-season

Win: Comic book adaptations and superhero narratives

For all the talk about superhero fatigue, so many comic adaptations are actually killing it on television. Marvel’s Agent Carter and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. both got renewals on ABC. Not only is Arrow going strong on The CW, but its spinoff The Flash was the most fun superhero series on TV all year; both got renewed and even spawned another spinoff to debut next season. The series complement each other perfectly, providing two sets of contrasts that work extremely well together — especially during the network’s smartly planned crossover episodes: Arrow likes to go dark and rely on the lonely vigilante narrative, while The Flash enjoys the lighter side of having cool powers. (Because they’re on The CW, both also deal with quite a bit of kissing.) iZombie, another comic book adaptation, is gunning for Jane the Virgin as both the weirdest and the most delightful series on The CW — and got an early Season 2 renewal.

 

Over on Fox, Gotham started off strong and darkly beautiful but lost its focus as it went on — though it was still renewed because viewers can never let go of Batman’s world. Superheroes are even all over streaming sites: Hulu’s The Awesomes (an original series, not an adaptation) was renewed for a third season halfway through its second while both Netflix’s Daredevil and PlayStation Network’s Powers will get second seasons next year. (There is one notable exception: Constantine, which never found the proper balance while telling its story, was canceled by NBC but is still being shopped around to other networks.)

Edited May 21, 2015 by tv echo

[Sakura12]

Crossover: DC Family Photo

 

[wingster55]

So neither Eddie nor Tommy were comic relief?

 

Tommy was..until he learned the secret and had a rift from Oliver (unlike Eddie who got closer to Barry after the reveal)

I didn't realize not having addiction issues makes you a better person than someone who does.

 

Better is the wrong word...maybe stronger? Less prone to drinking. 

[bettername2come]

I just got this mental image of Oliver saying "I'm happy" taking place right before the wormhole opened. Like the universe will never let Oliver have nice things!

[rainydawn]

@Variety .@CBS #Supergirl Pilot Leaks to Piracy Sites http://bit.ly/1Hzb0fQ

 

 

Same happened with The Flash, I'd say it's on purpose.

Edited May 22, 2015 by rainydawn

[Sakura12]

I think it was on purpose too. The reactions to the trailer were not that great so they have to test the waters with the people who can find the pilot and watch it. 

[Trini]

I'm pretty sure CBS can afford focus groups; I highly doubt it was released on purpose, especially because of negative reactions when Supergirl was actually THE most popular trailer from upfronts. Plus ComicCon is coming up if they want to poll fanboy reactions.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Trini

[scarynikki12]

ComicCon is coming up if they want to poll fanboy reactions.

 

I agree.  There's no way the Supergirl pilot won't be part of Preview Night (when a select group of tv pilots are made available before the official start of the Con).  It may even be one of the shows that presents the pilot during the individual panel, giving con attendees two opportunities to see and react to it.  It's certainly possible that the leak was intentional but I'm inclined to agree with those who believe it wasn't, if only because Comic Con is less than two months away. 

[tessaray]

Crossover: DC Family Photo

 

 

I'm not sure who some of these people are.  Is there a list?

[Sakura12]

I'm not sure who some of these people are.  Is there a list?

 

Bottom: Jason Momoa (Aquaman), Candice Patton (Iris West - The Flash), Cory Michael Smith (The Riddler - Gotham), Stephen Amell (Oliver Queen - Arrow), Caity Lotz (Sara Lance - Arrow/LoT), David Ramsey (John Diggle - Arrow). Top: Sean Pertwee (Alfred - Gotham), Jesse L. Martin (Joe West - The Flash), Not sure who the middle girl is, lucky fan perhaps, Rick Cosnett (Eddie Thawne - The Flash), David Zayas (Sal Maroni - Gotham), Brandon Routh (Ray Palmer - Arrow/LoT)

[tessaray]

Bottom: Jason Momoa (Aquaman), Candice Patton (Iris West - The Flash), Cory Michael Smith (The Riddler - Gotham), Stephen Amell (Oliver Queen - Arrow), Caity Lotz (Sara Lance - Arrow/LoT), David Ramsey (John Diggle - Arrow). Top: Sean Pertwee (Alfred - Gotham), Jesse L. Martin (Joe West - The Flash), Not sure who the middle girl is, lucky fan perhaps, Rick Cosnett (Eddie Thawne - The Flash), David Zayas (Sal Maroni - Gotham), Brandon Routh (Ray Palmer - Arrow/LoT)

 

Thanks!  I've never seen Gotham and even squinting, would never have recognized DR (maybe it's the facial hair?) and SP (who I only know from Elementary). 

[foreverevolving]

I agree.  There's no way the Supergirl pilot won't be part of Preview Night (when a select group of tv pilots are made available before the official start of the Con).  It may even be one of the shows that presents the pilot during the individual panel, giving con attendees two opportunities to see and react to it.  It's certainly possible that the leak was intentional but I'm inclined to agree with those who believe it wasn't, if only because Comic Con is less than two months away. 

Oh no, that leak was intentional. I mean I don't have actual proof, but the high quality of the episode suggest this was intentional. as opposed to the Flash pilot which was in a slightly lower quality (and some special effects i think were not finished, if my memory serves me right).

 

and FYI I watched, and it was pretty good there's potential in there. I actually liked the main actress - which shocked me since I didn't really liked her when she was on Glee (from the few episodes I did watch). the twist at the end is a true twist, but I wasn't feeling the person portraying the character.

the rest of the cast is pretty cool, it's like a cross between superman and Arrow only all the roles are reversed. and I won't go into more details since it's technically a spoiler and not official and what not.

[FurryFury]

I liked the pilot as well,it also has a strong feminist message that feels so refreshing after The Flash where female characters barely matter. Here, all female characters are strong, capable and involved in a lot of stuff. And Kara being a female superhero has been  discussed a quite a bit.

Edited May 23, 2015 by FurryFury

[jaytee1812]

Better is the wrong word...maybe stronger? Less prone to drinking. 

 

Laurel and Quentin both have a disease, they are not weaker, neither does that make them any lesser of a person. 

[tv echo]

I assume we're still posting Marvel universe news here as well?  For Daredevil fans, it looks like they're casting Elektra for S2...

 

Possible Elektra Auditions For Season 2 Of Netflix's Daredevil
Jay Jayson- 05/26/2015
http://comicbook.com/2015/05/26/possible-elketra-auditions-for-season-2-of-netflixs-daredevil/

 

Elektra May Be Coming To Daredevil Season 2
Posted May 27, 2015 by by Dan Wickline
http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/05/27/elektra-may-be-coming-to-daredevil-season-2/

Edited May 28, 2015 by tv echo

[tv echo]

This is an interesting article...

 

Can a Comic Book Series Break into the Emmy Race?
JUNE 8, 2015 | 10:00AM PT  Laura Prudom
http://variety.com/2015/tv/awards/daredevil-flash-emmy-nomination-gotham-walking-dead-1201514528/

[thuganomics85]

Looks like Jon Bernthal is going to be The Punisher in the second season of Daredevil.  Considering the rocky history that character has had in films, I'm curious to see if they will fare any better.  If nothing else, Jon Bernthal did crazy violent very well on The Walking Dead.

[kismet]

This was posted in Arrow thread, thought people here might be interested:

 

WBDC announces SDCC atendees

 

Quote

    

   

Warner Bros. Television & DC Entertainment Present: Super Hero Saturday Night | This three-hour “super-experience” includes a screening of Supergirl, followed by a Q&A with stars and producers; video presentations and Q&As with stars and EPs of Arrow, The Flash and Gotham; a  Q&A with cast and producers of DC’s Legends of Tomorrow; and a peek at the new digital series Vixen.

 

http://tvline.com/20...w-supernatural/

[scarynikki12]

SIGH. Sleep is my enemy that day.

[kismet]

This is an interesting article...

 

Can a Comic Book Series Break into the Emmy Race?

JUNE 8, 2015 | 10:00AM PT  Laura Prudom

http://variety.com/2015/tv/awards/daredevil-flash-emmy-nomination-gotham-walking-dead-1201514528/

Interesting read. I think network v. cable/streaming is more problematic for a lot of Emmy voting. As is the argument of 30min v. 60min programming (not mentioned in the article, but mentioned in other Emmy discussions). Network is limited by how far they can push story lines & characters. Therefore even if the actors/writers are amazing in what they deliver - there is only so far they can take the story. There are no boundaries on cable/streaming programming, so they can tell a far more extreme story which might appeal to voters who are looking to expand & push boundaries.

 

The comic book genre I think is only a piece of the problem, because those stories are supposed to entertain us and sometimes stories that entertain are not considered as boundary pushing or award deserving. That being said, a lot of comic book stories I think do have relevant & amazing performances that deserve recognition beyond just stunts & technical merit.

[Trini]

I'm glad we'll finally get more info on Vixen.