Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Miss Dee]

I was on pins and needles about LoT...this relieves my mind a bit.

You know, I'm kinda starting to think the CW might end up being the last network standing.

[Primal Slayer]

CW expanding to Sundays is huge! And I bet that one of the 5 Super shows will be headlining it. I wouldnt be surprised to see Arrow moved to Sundays.

[Mellowyellow]

Is Sunday a big ratings day for you guys?

It is for us. Our hit reality TV shows (two of the the bigger shows for our networks over here are Masterchef and My Kitchen Rules) take a break Thurs - Sat and start airing on Sundays.

Edited February 14, 2018 by Mellowyellow

[Primal Slayer]

2 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Is Sunday a big ratings day for you guys?

It is for us. Our hit reality TV shows (two of the the bigger shows for our networks over here are Masterchef and My Kitchen Rules) take a break Thurs - Sat and start airing on Sundays.

It used to be but I think the last major show on Sunday nights was Desperate Housewives. The average rating I think nowadays for shows on that night is like 4-5mill?

[Morrigan2575]

1 minute ago, Mellowyellow said:

Is Sunday a big ratings day for you guys?

It is for us. Our hit reality TV shows (two of the the bigger shows for our networks over here are Masterchef and My Kitchen Rules) take a break Thurs - Sat and start airing on Sundays.

Sunday night football is huge ratings for NBC. FOX and CBS shows get bumps from the 4:30 PM game (if they have it that week). 

[Trini]

29 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

CW expanding to Sundays is huge! And I bet that one of the 5 Super shows will be headlining it. I wouldnt be surprised to see Arrow moved to Sundays.

Yeah, DC shows 5 nights a week seems a lot more likely now.

[lemotomato]

Sundays have always been a more family friendly night for TV. If they move a DC show to that night, I'd bet on Supergirl. I don't think they want to mess with different timeslots for Flash.

Edited February 14, 2018 by lemotomato

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, Primal Slayer said:

CW expanding to Sundays is huge! And I bet that one of the 5 Super shows will be headlining it. I wouldnt be surprised to see Arrow moved to Sundays.

Are you including Supernatural in that?

[Primal Slayer]

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Are you including Supernatural in that?

No, just the GB-Superhero shows. I dont think they would move Supernatural to a Sunday.

[Starfish35]

I could see Supergirl going to Sunday night. 

To be honest, I'm wondering if this means Legends might finally get a full-season order this year.

[Primal Slayer]

I like LoT having a shorter episode count. I don't really want any of the shorter shows to get a full 22/23 episode pick up tbh.

[WindofChange]

42 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

To be honest, I'm wondering if this means Legends might finally get a full-season order this year.

IDK in this thread alone we've seen so many people always say how LoT fares better from having a shorter season and that is partly why it's supposedly better than the other DCTV shows because there are less fillers. Why ruin that? 

Edited February 15, 2018 by WindofChange

[Starfish35]

4 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

IDK in this thread alone we've seen so many people always say how LoT fares better from having a shorter season and that is partly why it's better than the other DCTV shows because of it because there are less fillers. Why ruin that? 

I don't personally buy into that argument, and since it's my favorite show, I'm always eager to have more of it.

[WindofChange]

14 minutes ago, Starfish35 said:

I don't personally buy into that argument, and since it's my favorite show, I'm always eager to have more of it.

I guess lol. I personally agree that LoT fares better than Arrow/Flash/Supergirl at the moment because that forces the writers to be smarter about what they put into the season and what they leave out.

But I suppose we'll see.

Giving LoT a full season order defeats the purpose of opening up Sundays on the CW considering they likely did it so they can order new shows and have a higher rate of success of getting a new hit. And I'm pretty sure CW is desperate for a new hit to keep investors happy. I hope they see how much potential Black Lightning had and give that show the Riverdale treatment this summer.

Edited February 15, 2018 by WindofChange

[way2interested]

6 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

I personally agree that LoT fares better than Arrow/Flash/Supergirl at the moment because that forces the writers to be smarter about what they put into the season and what they leave out.

I actually don't agree with that. LoT has a plot/characters that actually allow the writers to have a lot more room for creativity than the other shows have and I think that's what works better for them. The shorter season has nothing to do with it. Take the main 4 Marvel Netflix shows that, even though they only had 13 episodes, ALL had filler episodes (and even filler villains and plots!) and only remembered to get back to the main plot for the last few episodes. Even the Defenders didn't fight or really get together until almost halfway through the series. What I'd like to know is the ratio between filler and not-filler in a series and then really compare a shorter series to a longer one since, if the ratio is the same, I'd be all for more episodes.

[Starfish35]

Besides, Legends' "filler episodes" tend to be some of their best, IMO.  They always have one or two misfires (most notably the circus episode this season), but the structure of Legends isn't such that filler episodes really hurt it at all.  IMO anyway.  I mean, the baby Dominator episode could technically be called a filler episode, since it had little to do with the season arc, but it was one of the best episodes of the season.

[WindofChange]

7 minutes ago, way2interested said:

I actually don't agree with that. LoT has a plot/characters that actually allow the writers to have a lot more room for creativity than the other shows have and I think that's what works better for them. The shorter season has nothing to do with it. Take the main 4 Marvel Netflix shows that, even though they only had 13 episodes, ALL had filler episodes (and even filler villains and plots!) and only remembered to get back to the main plot for the last few episodes. Even the Defenders didn't fight or really get together until almost halfway through the series. What I'd like to know is the ratio between filler and not-filler in a series and then really compare a shorter series to a longer one since, if the ratio is the same, I'd be all for more episodes.

That's fine.

For me with this group of writers specifically I think that a show like Arrow would greatly benefit from a shorter season. Guggenheim always says that they ran out of time to fit in storylines for Digg/Felicity, but the fact of the matter is, is that they waste it because they have so many episodes to fill in so they write contrived bullshit like this Civil War storyline. It's the same with The Flash too. 

It is also tougher having season long arcs when you have 23 episodes because there will be episodes where you build up momentum but then you have to stop and forget about the main plot because it's not the last 3 episodes yet.

I just have zero faith with any of these writers whether it's for LoT/Flash/Arrow to pull off 23 episode seasons. They're really not that talented. The less episodes there are the less there would be any chance of BS imo. 

Edited February 15, 2018 by WindofChange

[Starfish35]

3 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

I just have zero faith with any of these writers whether it's for LoT/Flash/Arrow to pull off 23 episode seasons. They're really not that talented. The less episodes there are the less there would be any chance of BS imo. 

Yeah but Arrow and Flash aren't going to get their episode orders cut. Only Legends gets the shorter seasons so far.  And maybe that'll continue - I don't know.  But just as a fan of the show, I'm down for all the crazy time adventures I can possibly get.

[tarotx]

MG has said 18 episodes is the most the could do of LOT. I took that to mean they considered this a full season order. 

[apinknightmare]

Do the shorter seasons have something to do with how much the episodes cost to make? I only ever made it through half of one episode and the crossovers - is it special effects heavy? 

[quarks]

At the risk of sounding slightly off topic here:

Even apart from the NFL and some PGA events that bleed into prime time, in terms of overall Sunday ratings, the overall most successful show in United States television broadcast history, by far, has been on Sunday evenings, just prior to prime time in most markets, since 1975.  Now in its 50th season, it was the number one show in the United States during the early 1990s, and in some previous years. With the exception of its 2005-2006 season, the show has landed in the top twenty U.S. shows in terms of ratings and live viewers every single year since Nielsen turned to its current ratings reporting in 1976.  Several episodes last season pulled over 15 million viewers, and one earned 21 million viewers.  As far as I know it's never been released on DVD/Blu-Ray, but CBS reports that it's relatively successful on streaming. 

I'll jump ahead of the inevitable arguments here: yes, in most markets it airs from 7 - 8 PM EST, so technically not in prime time, and no, it's not scripted television, and no, it's not on the CW, but I still find it mildly perplexing that we're having a conversation about the popularity of Sunday television shows without at least mentioning 60 Minutes.

Back on topic, the CW has been talking about offering six nights and year round programming for about four years now, so this isn't a surprising development - and I think they'll have more success on Sunday evenings than Saturday evenings. I'm curious to see if they can get this to extend year round with more than just that magic show and Whose Line Is It Anyway in the summer. 

[WindofChange]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

Do the shorter seasons have something to do with how much the episodes cost to make? I only ever made it through half of one episode and the crossovers - is it special effects heavy? 

I would imagine it being more expensive on the count of all the CGI. You had Firestorm, Ray, Amaya, Nate, and now Wally who all have powers and require CGI. IIRC MG once said one single arrow Oliver shoots costs 2000 USD, imagine how much it is for a meta.

[way2interested]

15 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

It is also tougher having season long arcs when you have 23 episodes because there will be episodes where you build up momentum but then you have to stop and forget about the main plot because it's not the last 3 episodes yet.

I just have zero faith with any of these writers whether it's for LoT/Flash/Arrow to pull off 23 episode seasons. They're really not that talented. The less episodes there are the less there would be any chance of BS imo. 

Oh I get that, I'm just arguing there would be long season arcs and bs no matter how long the season is. x/23 episodes of filler can equal y/18 episodes of filler, but with 23 episodes there's still a chance of at least showing a little bit and just not having enough of stuff I want versus not having it at all. I get less episodes = less chances of messing up, but I also see it as less episodes = less of everything with the same amount/ratio of filler.

Edited February 15, 2018 by way2interested

[quarks]

7 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Do the shorter seasons have something to do with how much the episodes cost to make? I only ever made it through half of one episode and the crossovers - is it special effects heavy? 

Legends of Tomorrow is definitely special effects heavy - even apart from the CGI superpowers, that show is relying on a lot of digital art to fill in ceilings and backgrounds, and I think in some episodes they've had to clean up some planes and that sort of stuff.  (They've also missed more than one power line and telephone pole, but so has Game of Thrones.) But I don't think the length of the season has much to do with the special effects cost per episode.

What might be happening is that Berlanti Productions is having a problem finding digital effects artists to do the work - and may only be able to hire CGI artists for X number of episodes. Add in that pretty much all of the Vancouver shows seem to be having finding available location shots and that Legends of Tomorrow in particular has to film around Flash and Arrow's soundstage schedules, the fact that at least two of their main actors continue to film other projects, and that Legends of Tomorrow has been working with an independent costumer, and I can see why MG might want to keep this to 15 to 18 episodes per season for purely pragmatic reasons.

[lemotomato]

8 minutes ago, quarks said:

and that Legends of Tomorrow has been working with an independent costumer, and I can see why MG might want to keep this to 15 to 18 episodes per season for purely pragmatic reasons.

This is something I've been wondering about, actually. Everyone talks about how expensive the CGI is for LoT, but the costumes for the all those different eras they time travel to can't be cheap either.

[quarks]

5 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

This is something I've been wondering about, actually. Everyone talks about how expensive the CGI is for LoT, but the costumes for the all those different eras they time travel to can't be cheap either.

Yeah, it's one thing that makes the decision to film in Vancouver instead of LA (where they'd have access to WB's fabulous costume warehouses) a bit odd.  Plus, they don't have designers supplying standard clothing for free, something that's helping Arrow, Flash and Supergirl keep costs down. 

Then again, Vancouver does have some top notch costume companies, so maybe that was a consideration. 

[Kymmi]

The episode count is so interesting to me, and I wonder if Arrow would be a better storyteller with a shorter order.  Don't get me wrong, I want all I can get, but I also want it to be good.  For me, the reason SPN still resonates after all this time, is that they return to the familiar monster-of-the-week format a lot during the season arc.  Arrow seems to clutch on that arc too tightly, or maybe I just miss the days where they just had an old list of names to go through.  I don't need every ep to be about NTA being mad, not being able to deal with Cayden, or what Black Siren is up to now.   Sometimes, just give me a simple ep where you bring a bad guy to justice.  

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, WindofChange said:

For me with this group of writers specifically I think that a show like Arrow would greatly benefit from a shorter season. Guggenheim always says that they ran out of time to fit in storylines for Digg/Felicity, but the fact of the matter is, is that they waste it because they have so many episodes to fill in so they write contrived bullshit like this Civil War storyline. It's the same with The Flash too.

I actually like filler episodes and sometimes bottle episodes too.  It all depends on whether they are well-written and the characters are consistent.  I don't need every episode to be about the big theme of the season and if it's a case of fewer episodes of a show I really like or filler episodes, I'd rather have filler episodes.

The problem with Arrow is that the pacing is terrible. I appreciate that Berlanti thinks a good game's a fast game but it can be too fast and then they have to fumble around to fill in the holes in the time.  They also fail to make the emotional beats breathe too often.  And of course, those

23 minutes ago, quarks said:

What might be happening is that Berlanti Productions is having a problem finding digital effects artists to do the work - and may only be able to hire CGI artists for X number of episodes.

So for anyone looking with failing heart at the job market, think CGI?

[Sakura12]

Friday is usually the death spot. Sunday's are a decent spot, The Walking Dead and Game of Thrones are on Sundays and they get good ratings. Most people are home on Sunday during primetime. 

[tv echo]

Which Showrunners Will Land the Next Big Streaming Payday?
By Josef Adalian and Maria Elena Fernandez   February 15, 2018
http://www.vulture.com/2018/02/ryan-murphy-netflix-streaming-deal-explained.html

Quote

Netflix’s Tuesday night announcement that it was signing superstar showrunner Ryan Murphy to a five-year overall deal came as no surprise to anyone in Hollywood. ...
*  *  *
... So, who’s next up in TV’s newest arms race? Vulture talked to our industry sources, scoured the small-screen landscape, and came up with some possible acquisition targets for Netflix and its streaming rivals. We limited our choices to folks who’ve created or run multiple shows and who haven’t signed a big new overall deal within the past year. ...
*  *  *
Greg Berlanti
The writer/producer/director known for everything from teen soaps (Dawson’s Creek) and crime procedurals (The Mysteries of Laura) to building the super successful DC Comics extended TV universe, Berlanti is one of Hollywood’s most prolific creative forces. He’s had hits at multiple networks, with multiple genres, and next month will move into movies with Love, Simon, his feature-film directorial debut. Given Netflix’s mandate of being the everything-store for entertainment, Berlanti might be even more perfect for the streamer than Murphy or Rhimes. Amazon might also be very interested in Berlanti, particularly under new programming chief Jen Salke, who’s worked with Berlanti and knows his ability to create heartland hits. And then there’s Disney, itself looking to launch a Netflix rival in late 2019 once it completes its purchase of 20th Century Fox. Since its deal for Fox no longer includes the future services of Ryan Murphy, Disney might now feel inspired to step up in a big way for Berlanti. The bad news for anyone interested in making a play for him? Industry insiders say he’s locked up at Warner Bros. TV, his longtime small-screen home, until 2020.

Edited February 15, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Exclusive: 'Legends of Tomorrow' Will Bring Back John Constantine Later This Season
By RUSS BURLINGAME - February 14, 2018
http://comicbook.com/dc/2018/02/14/exclusive-legends-of-tomorrow-will-bring-back-john-constantine/

Quote

Matt Ryan's John Constantine, who appeared on this week's 2018 premiere of DC's Legends of Tomorrow, will make his return to the time-travel superhero drama in March, ComicBook.com has learned.

In a new photo from the set of Legends of Tomorrow, actor Nick Zano told his Instagram followers that he was going into production on the final episode "like...," and featuring a photo of himself, bruised and bloodied but with his hands up as if to fight. Some fans noticed that the photograph appeared to feature John Constantine standing in the background, a head of tousled blonde hair and the character's signature trench coat visible behind Zano's head.

Warner Bros. Television has confirmed for ComicBook.com that Ryan will return for the fifteenth episode of the season, titled "Necromancing the Stone," which is set to air in five weeks.
*  *  *
Cast members on Legends have been taking photos to save for later social media use all season. For example, you can see a number of posts this week featuring disco-inspired looks on many of the characters, which will appear on next week's episode. That episode, titled "Here I Go Again," was filmed in December.

So while this image...

...accompanied a "season finale" piece of teaser text, that is no guarantee that Constantine will appear in the finale. It is theoretically possible, but Warner Bros. confirmed only "Necromancing the Stone," and not the finale.

Edited February 15, 2018 by tv echo

[BkWurm1]

19 hours ago, Kymmi said:

The episode count is so interesting to me, and I wonder if Arrow would be a better storyteller with a shorter order.  Don't get me wrong, I want all I can get, but I also want it to be good.  For me, the reason SPN still resonates after all this time, is that they return to the familiar monster-of-the-week format a lot during the season arc.  Arrow seems to clutch on that arc too tightly, or maybe I just miss the days where they just had an old list of names to go through.  I don't need every ep to be about NTA being mad, not being able to deal with Cayden, or what Black Siren is up to now.   Sometimes, just give me a simple ep where you bring a bad guy to justice.  

I don't buy into the idea that a reduced episode count automatically means a tighter story.  It might for some shows/writers but I think despite how grueling a schedule the actors and crew face to produce so many episodes in a season (and that merits some examinations separately on its own when it comes to season lengths), I think the true effector in overall quality isn't about the number of episodes written or filmed but the standards to which the writers are held and then later, the budget to film it. 

Cutting the episode count for a show I'm sure also comes with a budget cut to match so I feel the actual filming wouldn't change much for the better with fewer episodes unless somehow the budget does go higher proportionally.  

And as for the writing, there have been just as many crappy episodes at the start of the season as during the middle or at the end.  I'd say we started the whole season with one of the biggest missed out gimme episodes that they for some inconceivable reason couldn't be bothered to write.  And then we have the left in for plot stupidity that anyone looking to maintain good writing standards should never allow.  It's mind-boggling that they let stand William's reason for showing up where GA and Cayden James were facing off as him "just wanting to be with his dad because he was scared" 

 A shorter season doesn't keep that kind of low writing standards at bay or plot holes like with Diaz framing Oliver for killing James's kid to what, hopefully someday get busted out of ARGUS custody so he can take revenge on the whole city and almost blow it up only for last second the very ones Diaz is setting James up to target manages to stop him so DDDragon can now take control of the city?   I'm accustomed to the standards the showrunners let slide but nothing I've seen or heard points to these guys being more careful if they have fewer episodes in a year. 

I think the problems we get on the show would likely follow whether it stays 23 episodes or shrunk to 13.  They'd still find ways to focus on what isn't important or interesting and rush past or skip completely the good stuff half the time.  I don't think their judgment, which is really what I think it all comes down to, would change with fewer episodes, not unless they were also given more money to help buy better writers or throw money at problems plus more time to do the initial script reviews, actual filming, and the final editing.  

I am of the opinion that we need all 23 episodes just to give the showrunners as many chances to get it right as we can.   

Edited February 15, 2018 by BkWurm1

[Guest]

I personally think most TV shows should have shorter and fewer seasons tbh. I've always thought 5-7 seasons with roughly 13-16 episodes per season is enough to tell a good story. I think more than just Arrow can benefit from this. But it also requires good writers. Just IMO.

[bijoux]

6 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

 

And as for the writing, there have been just as many crappy episodes at the start of the season as during the middle or at the end. I'd say we started the whole season with one of the biggest missed out gimme episodes that they for some inconceivable reason couldn't be bothered to write.  And then we have the left in for plot stupidity that anyone looking to maintain good writing standards should never allow.  It's mind-boggling that they let stand William's reason for showing up where GA and Cayden James were facing off as him "just wanting to be with his dad because he was scared" 

I really had rose colored glasses on about that. With the statements about flashbacks being used when needed and not as a crutch, and knowing Felicity and Diggle centric episodes were coming up, I was so sure they would use those occasions to flashback to the island. Come on, Diggle featured his problem which originated on the island, and a part of Felicit’s episode was her and Oliver going forward with their relationship. How does that not make for a logical either contrast or parallel with their reunion on the island?! Considering Samantha’s death and Thea’s almost death that were featured in the premiere, maybe this not being shown was actually a blessing in disguise.

[kes0704]

The hiatus long, drawn out mystery of who’d survive the island explosion ended up being the most underwhelming resolution to a cliffhanger ever because 601 answered it right out of the gate, a tertiary character whose death served only to make Oliver an instant single father and the audience sit through scenes with William*.  

I should’ve learned by now not to expect more from these showrunners and writers but I was disappointed that we didn’t at least see Oliver and Felicity reuniting. 

 

* I finally got on board with William in 611 when he was okay with Oliver being GA and then they reverted him back to factory settings in 613. ?

[Wishing Well]

ABC’s always had a fairly tight grasp on Sunday’s, right?  First with Desperate Housewives and Brothers and Sisters, but then they also followed up immediately with Once Upon A Time.  They stayed above 6 million viewers until they started bleeding badly in s5/6.

[thegirlsleuth]

I always thought they didn't show much of the flashbacks to the island because they didn't want to box themselves in as to which of the secondary characters lived or died so they could bring them back without a ton of explanation (and I'm leaving aside the dramatic potential they wasted by blowing up an island with no main characters dying).  They brought back Black Siren, Slade lived, and I suppose they could call back Nyssa, Talia, Evelyn, Digger Harkness or even Malcolm if they needed to.  That said, since Guggenheim took over they do have a tendency to tell us about rather than show us the big emotional beats, so maybe its not any sort of strategy.

[bijoux]

You know, if one of the n00bs had died or was badly and permanently injured on the island, that would actually make their current resentment towards Oliver and OTA understandable.

[KirkB]

From a narrative, dramatic standpoint, I think someone on Oliver's team SHOULD have died. I mean, I know Samantha did (but she wasn't a character too many people cared about) and Malcolm probably did, but the only issue on Oliver's side was Thea being in a relaxing coma for a little while. She's fine. One of the newbies (since I don't think the show runners would have the guts to kill Diggle or Felicity, considering the likely backlash) should have died to make the other two mourn and give them more of a legitimate reason to be angry at Oliver.

[tv echo]

Spoiler Room: Scoop on The Originals, Imposters, SVU, and more
NATALIE ABRAMS February 15, 2018 AT 12:00 PM EST
http://ew.com/tv/2018/02/15/spoiler-room-originals-imposters-svu/

Quote

If Supergirl can sway Julia out of Purity, can she do the same with Sam and Reign on Supergirl? — Patrick
If Kara can — she probably can — it’s not something Reign fears. “I don’t think Reign is worried about her power in any way,” Odette Annable says. “That’s one of the reasons I love playing this character — because there’s no gray area for her. It’s very black or white. She sees something and she’s going to get it. She has orders and she’s going to get it. There isn’t any swaying her. She’s very decided, she knows what she needs, and that’s what she goes for.”

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

FYI - full video of "DC Zoom/DC Ink" panel at the Feb. 9, 2018 American Library Association's Midwinter Conference...
.
DC INK & DC ZOOM: Full ALA Panel
Published on Feb 15, 2018, by DC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pABzZehyJFo

Quote

You’re never too young to be a hero…or to read about them! DC recently announced two new graphic novel lines, DC Ink, which is geared towards Young Adult readers, and DC Zoom, which targets Middle Graders. Recently, fans and professionals at ALA learned a lot more about these exciting books—which feature DC’s most popular heroes and are written by prominent YA and middle grade authors—when DC hosted a panel to help launch the two lines. DC All Access is now pleased to bring you this panel in full. Enjoy!

DC Zoom:
-- Oct. 2018: DC Super Hero Girls: Search for Atlantis (Shea Fontana)
-- Feb. 2019: Superman of Smallville (Art Baltazar & Franco)
-- Apr. 2019: Super Sons (Ridley Pearson)
-- May 2019: Black Canary: Ignite (Meg Cabot)
-- May 2019: Dear Justice League (Michael Northop)
-- Jul. 2019: Batman Tales: Once Upon a Crime (Derek Fridolfs & Dustin Nguyen)
-- Aug. 2019: Batman: Overdrive (Shea Fontana)
-- Oct. 2019: Green Lantern: Legacy (Minh Le)
-- Superman Smashes the Klan (Gene Luen Yang)

DC Ink:
-- Sep. 2018: Harley Quinn: Breaking Glass (Mariko Tamaki)
-- Nov. 2018: Mera (Danielle Paige)
-- Feb. 2019: Under the Moon: A Catwoman Tale (Lauren Myracle)
-- Mar. 2019: Teen Titans: Raven (Kami Garcia)
-- Aug. 2019: Gotham High (Melissa de la Cruz)
-- Nov. 2019: Wonder Woman: Tempest Tossed (Laurie Halse Anderson)
-- Nov. 2019: Batman: Nightwalker (Marie Lu)

Edited February 16, 2018 by tv echo

[quarks]

14 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Cutting the episode count for a show I'm sure also comes with a budget cut to match so I feel the actual filming wouldn't change much for the better with fewer episodes unless somehow the budget does go higher proportionally.  

Usually I'd agree with this, but Arrow's budget is just weird.  The budget was initially cut after the first season, for instance, right after Arrow had found its stride and become the network's first genuine hit after The Vampire Diaries.  It seems to have been cut again after season two, which makes a little more sense (since the live numbers dropped in season two and the CW was involved in pretty tense negotiations with its network affiliates, and still didn't have the current Netflix deal that makes it easier to guarantee that a show will turn a profit, and the CW/WB had no way of knowing if Arrow would, like Supernatural, continue to enjoy strong DVD/Blu-Ray sales), though it's hard to tell just how much of that was a budget decrease and just how much was Brandon Routh's salary/the ATOM costume and just how much was Berlanti's reluctance to invest in another soundstage until he knew for certain that Flash would be a success and how much was just covering the automated SAG salary increases.

But although the live numbers went up for season three, and Flash was a proven success, the budgets for both shows were cut again after season 3/season 1.  Berlanti didn't actually get a budget increase for Arrow until after season four - ironically, right after Arrow had a numbers plunge - this one, unlike the season two plunge, seemingly permanent.  The live numbers stayed low throughout season five, and what happened? Arrow got another budget increase for this season - although Flash apparently did not, or if they did, it's all gone to the budget for Ralph.  This doesn't make a lot of sense, but that's where we are.

Berlanti said that part of this is that he was finally able to to convince WB to take the post-view revenue into account, and thus free up money for the shows (not that the increased budget is particularly visible over on Flash, but that's a separate discussion).  He also stated that he'd also managed to rework contracts to include crossover episodes, which he said freed up some money. (We can all read that as "paid actors less.") Streaming revenue may also play a part here - the Amazon numbers indicate that last season, Arrow was one of the top selling season passes for the CW, and it appears that this season, Arrow may be selling more season passes on Amazon than Flash is. And the connection between Arrow's budget and its quality may also have played a role - I suspect everyone would like Arrow to return to its late first/early 2nd season critically acclaimed status. 

Still, this all leaves Arrow one of the few shows I can think of offhand that got a budget increase after a drop in live numbers. So...who knows what might happen with a shorter episode order? 

[tv echo]

MARC GUGGENHEIM talks SWASHBUCKLERS: THE SAGA CONTINUES #1, on sale in APRIL!
Byron Brewer   02-13-2018
https://www.dynamite.com/boards/forum/general-dynamite-discussion-forum-comics-tpb-s-news-ect/51677-marc-guggenheim-talks-swashbucklers-the-saga-continues-1-on-sale-in-april

Quote

BB: Any new projects, in or out of comics, coming up you can share with our readers?
MG: Well, let’s see... As I write this, it’s February 9. I finished my pass of Arrow Ep. 618 yesterday. We’re in prep on the third season finale of Legends of Tomorrow. I’m working on 3Below, the second of two Trollhunters spinoff series, and meeting later today with the head writers to officially kick off the third series, Wizards. I’m still writing X-Men Gold for Marvel, which is out every other week. (Currently working on issue #27.) And as I write this, I’m on the Sony lot for my first meeting on Infinitum, a spec screenplay I just sold to them. Finally, I’m planning a vacation or two in my head.

[lemotomato]

Funko just released their Pop figures for Smallville. An Oliver figure (when there are already 5 variants of GA) but no Chloe? Ooookay.

[Primal Slayer]

Just looking at the Clark ones it seems that they are just testing the waters and releasing versions of the popular characters already which I can't really blame them. Those are all staple characters that will draw peoples attention due to their names. Though Funko confuses me enough with some things that they just release and things they don't choose to.

[Morrigan2575]

4 hours ago, lemotomato said:

Funko just released their Pop figures for Smallville. An Oliver figure (when there are already 5 variants of GA) but no Chloe? Ooookay.

How would you do a Chloe doll? My first thought was that S10 White Suit when everyone was trapped in the Matrix.

Then I thought about that Pencil Skirt and blouse from the S6 or S7 Promo Photo.

To be clear, I'm asking if you (general you, everyone can play) were in charge of making a Chloe Sullivan doll, what outfit would you use?

Edited February 17, 2018 by Morrigan2575

[lemotomato]

7 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

How would you do a Chloe doll? My first thought was that S10 White Suite when everyone was trapped in the Matrix.

Then I thought about that Pencil Skirt and blouse from the S6 or S7 Promo Photo.

To be clear, I'm asking if you (general you, everyone can play) were in charge of making a Chloe Sullivan doll, what outfit would you use?

I think Chloe's hair is her most distinctive feature, so a figure with the blonde bob and I don't know if her outfit matters all that much. 

Their Lois figure looks pretty generic. 

[BkWurm1]

No Chloe?  That's really disappointing.  So despite being only second to the lead of the show for how many episodes she was in, she gets no love.  

I don't care that Lana isn't there personally but I am annoyed in principle.  Lana was a full time regular for 7 years.  Lois showed up in season 4 and remained part-time until season 8.  And Ollie was only even a regular for the last 4 seasons.  I didn't expect multiple versions of Chloe, but they were supposed to be doing Smallville specific figures.  It's disappointing that they didn't do something that pretty much only belongs to Smallville. 

 When they put out their poll and asked for suggestions people brought up Chloe in the Vessel outfit (The aqua coat) or some funky outfit from their Highschool time holding a Go Crows mug or a copy of The Torch or something with the Wall of Weird.  And just the short blond bob would mark who she was.  It wouldn't have been hard.  But clearly, they played it safe and went for the names known outside of Smallville.  

Boo.  :(

Edited February 17, 2018 by BkWurm1

[Mellowyellow]

Do you think it could be the bad publicity around the Chloe actress? They don't want to make a figure because of all that?

[Morrigan2575]

14 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

And I think Ollie was never full time and only even a regular for the last 3 season.

He was full time in S10 (22 eps) and S9 (20 + 2 episodes with credit only).

S8 he only had 12 episodes but was a series regular for S8-10.